Those who are interested in what's going on with the HUNGARY list that
has gone comatose due to some massive server problem, please read my
little communique (a copy of a note I sent out recently to addresses I
found for recent contributors) enclosed below my sig. It is my hope that
with the start of the semester things will get kicked back to normal, but
we'll have to wait and see.

 Notice that with this post I am doing three things that are ususally
strongly counter-indicated - after considering the downsides I decided
doing so is the lesser ill under the circumstances, but please do not
follow my example (do as I say, not as I do ;-():
 1: posting to both  and b.l.h is redundant and will end up
generating duplicate copies (once the LISTSERV comes back up); still I
think it's important to call the attention of users of both these
alternate channels that the spurious signs of life of  in
those secondary redistribution media are deceptive artifacts of being out
of sync with the main LISTSERV's operation (lack thereof right now, that is)
 2: crossposting bit.listserv.* pseudo-groups with Usenet groups proper is
a BAD practice in general, and very bad with b.l.h in particular (due to
it's poor propagation which in turn often slows down even the crossposted
article in other groups); I decided to do so in order to inform those
who're reading the Usenet-gatewayed side of the list (although many are
likely not to receive it while the LISTSERV is down, some may get it
directly via the netnews mechanism)
 3: sending to the list messages dealing with questions of why the list
isn't working makes little sense, since by the time they get transmitted
they become irrelevant (and in the meantime the intended audience don't
see them); while I am not sending this directly to the LISTSERV, both the
HIX and b.l.h mechanisms do it for any posts submitted - unfortunately if
I want to notify readers of those channels when the main LISTSERV
distribution is inoperative there's no way for me to get around it
otherwise.  This means I am contributing at least two extra copies to the
already excessively backlogged load on the listserv traffic, for which I
ask for your forgiveness in advance ;-(! And I'm sorry for what even to my
long-winded self looks like a way too wordy piece, too - but as they say,
I've got not enough time to write briefly ;-)...

 Please note that I set up an ancillary list <mailto:>,
as described below, to facilitate communication on this subject - let me
know if anyone wants to get on that. Please, PLEASE, pretty please if you
follow up to this post do so on that mini-list (or to myself personally)
rather than to either b.l.h or the HIX list!

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

 Visit 'Boycott Internet Spam' <http://www.vix.com/spam/>;

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:52:23 -0800 (PST)

 Dear fellow HUNGARY list users,

 let me start with an apology - hopefully unneeded ;-)-, to anyone among
the addressees who may object to my mailing (which is, after all,
technically an unsolicited bulk email of sorts). Please let me know if you
wish to be removed from this ancillary mini-list and I will do so.
 I am establishing this email discussion group in order to facilitate
communication while our beloved  struggles with whatever
felled it sometime in December. Right now I do not know much about why the
list is not working, but quite obviously it is down for the time being.  I
would like to remind those who access the list via its gatewayed
bit.listserv.hungary Usenet pseudo-group that that channel is merely a
secondary distribution medium - while it may show some false signs of
life, the propagation of posts there is also practically halted, as far as
most potential recipeints concerned, while the LISTSERV is down (and, on
the other hand, will contibute to its backlog when it's coming back on)!

 While this is certainly a patience-trying thing, I'd like to emphasize
that the first thing NOT to do now is try submitting any further posts to
 (either via direct email or in any of the alternative
gatewayed access modes) until we see the server recover. Any further
submissions could only delay it getting back into operational! Also note
that the list owner (who'd typically be the person of choice to notify
about incidents like this) has been incommunicado for quite some time - by
the time he gets back to reading his email no doubt he'll have found out
about the trouble, so please do not fill his email box any further with
questions about the list until after we hear from him. In the meantime I
am trying to track down the technical admin in charge at GWU (if anyone
happens to know that address please let me know ASAP - I remember some
time ago seeing a note from Hugh mentioning that, but it'll take quite
some time for me to dig that up), and will contact that person when I can.
This is all that can be done about the situation at the moment.
 I'll try, as my ample free time permits ;-<, to keep members of this
lists posted about what's happening. Also, if anyone wants to contribute
please write to ' (or @c2.net which is equivalent) -
anything received there I will forward to the others (as well as archive
them and should it appear necessary forward to  when it
revives). To allow for sorting from my rather high volume of personal
email do use the extanded address shown above as opposed to my regular
 address - on the other and if you wish my personal attention
then please send, or copy, the note to me at the latter.
 For those who are wondering about the mechanics of how this is going to
work: not automatically (at least not for a while - for reasons too
involved to get in here), but I will scan this mailbox often and will
hand-deliver stuff several times a day, if necessary. From now on I'll be
using a 'Bcc:' (blind carbon copy) for the addressing, so they will not
appear in the headers - but this time I show them in a visible Cc: field
for reference and am also including the list at the end of this letter. I
intend to place only recent HUNGARY participiants in this group (rather
than trying to reach every subscriber), to minimize wasted bandwith - if
anyone knows of someone else who might want to be included, please let me
(and the person in question as well) know! Hopefully soon we'l be able to
get back on the main HUNGARY list, but in the meantime I hope we can make
this useful for sharing information.

 In closing let me forward a copy of my recent post that I sent when it
seemed, intermittently (and it turned out falsely), as if the list
recovered - perhaps you still find it interesting.

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

 Visit 'Boycott Internet Spam' <http://www.vix.com/spam/>;

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 05:32:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq >
X-To: "Johanne L. Tournier" >
Cc: Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY >
Subject: Re: More about our next move

On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Johanne L. Tournier wrote:
>[...]
> I can post, as I said, but I am doing it through Netscape and am getting

 That's presumably to the Usenet gateway group bit.listserv.hungary, which
wouldn't do much good unless the LISTSERV is up and running because
that's what's distributing the posts to email subscribers (and propagates
the list traffic back to the b.l.s too)...

>[...]
> I know that several of you have tried
> > to reach Zoli Fekete, Hugh Agnew and Mr. Hollosi without any success.

 As a matter of fact, no-one has tried to reach me (or not hard enough),
since I received nothing ;-()...

> I believe that Zoli Fekete is just a nice guy
 Indeed :-)!

>who keeps the Hungarian
> FAQ and knows a lot about computers and the Internet, but I don't
> believe he has a formal role in relation to our List. Jozsi Hollosi, as
> far as I know, just assembles the List digests and sends them out every
> night, but I don't believe he otherwise is formally involved with the

 Exactly so; unfortunately HIX' help material is somewhat less than
optimal in preventing the many misunderstandings that could result from
the setup, and apparently my FAQ (and additional posted explanations)
aren't doing an adequate job either ;-(...

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

 Visit 'Boycott Internet Spam' <http://www.vix.com/spam/>;

H2      H2: support group for Hungary list users
[listing of original recipients omitted]

Very nicely put Eva!

My sentiments exactly!  Now, if anyone has a great idea as to how to
stop this man from continously sending me obnoxious private messages,
I would greatly appreciate hearing it!

Best regards,
Aniko
Eva Kende wrote:
>
> Mr. Lippai,
> I've been a lurker on this news group for several months without
> saying much. I read and *listen* and sometimes I agree, sometimes not.
> When you listen to divergent opinions you grow within yourself by
> rethinking your convictions affirming them or altering them with the
> new information or angle of thought.
> You came into this list swinging, looking for a fight (Egy jo bunyo?).
> You knocked out your audience with the first punch offending all and
> sundry. Now we are to listen to the story you have to tell and learn
> from you? Unfortunately for your credibility is shot.
> Yes, you deeply offended me with your Uber Alles statement against
> *my* adopted homeland Canada. (Verig sertett!)
>

I am ever so glad Darren, that you closed your note with what you did. Thoughts
on a
slow day, would seem relevant and almost acceptable; but not otherwise -- at
least not
from you of all persons ...

Regards,
Aniko.

Purcell wrote:
>
> On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Joe Szalai wrote:
>
> > At 04:58 PM 1/4/97 UT, Istvan Lippai wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > >All of us who live outside of Hungary are representatives of Hungary,
> > >like it or not.
> >
> > This is nonsense.  People represent only themselves.  Only a bigot or a
> > racist would conclude otherwise.
> >
> > Joe Szalai
> >
>
> sorry Joe, it wouldn't be racsism to my mind. We all classify based on
> some knowledge. Brains don't really like the complexities that a true
> plural society entails. Whether we like it or not, I am a representative
> of what it is like to be an American every time I go to Hungary and SE
> Europe. I will only make a part of the impression people have of
> Americans, but it will be a part, whether I wish to be identified as such.
>
> A bigot or racist would only see the representation that they imposed on a
> person, and dismiss any other possible view.
>
> Just my thoughts on a slow day
>
> Darren Purcell
> Program for Instructional Excellence
> Department of Geography
> Florida State University

Mpflerr wrote:
>
> >Istvan Lippai wrote:
>
> >>In my view, it would be no great loss, if this list got cancelled.
> >>
> >>Istvan Lippai
>
> >After having made that statement, the next logical/intelligent move would
> >be for you to unsubscribe.
> >
> Hear, hear - I second the motion!
>
> > At least, that is what Logical, Intelligent
> >
> Yeah, but what about Istvan? He is more of a singleton
> than a being like you and me.
>
> (snip)
> >Aniko
>
> Cheers,
> MarinaHi there Marina!  And happy '97 to you and yours!

Ok... You're right!  I was really hoping though, that Mr. Lips and all
his lipping would pick up on that?  Obviously my rambling goes right over
his head?

Best to all
Aniko

I guess, Mr. Wakefield ... that there is something to be said
about destiny after all? ... The very first home I ever built
with my own hands, was in Wakefield! .... Thank Goodness, that
something do stay constant ... for Wakefield was a sane state of mind!

Regards
Aniko


Zoe9998593 wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Lippalj,
>
> Once I heard someone say "once a proli, always a proli.." !
>
> Just finished reading some of your contributions to this list and
> I must say that I agree with the above statement. I don't see how
> anyone can have an intelligent conversation with you. The Lord
> should save us from maniacs like you.
>
> Zoe T. Wakefield
> "One man that has a mind and
>    knows it can always beat ten men
>    who haven't and don't."
> George Bernard Shaw
> The Apple Cart (1929)

 on Jan  8 18:22:15 EST 1997 in HUNGARY #882:

> (sorry for late reaction, just back from Kolozsvar):

Gabor, could you tell us something about the situation there?  I think I am
not alone in being interested.  Thanks.

Ferenc

Those who are interested in what's going on with the HUNGARY list that
has gone comatose due to some massive server problem, please read my
little communique (a copy of a note I sent out recently to addresses I
found for recent contributors) enclosed below my sig. It is my hope that
with the start of the semester things will get kicked back to normal, but
we'll have to wait and see.

 Notice that with this post I am doing three things that are ususally
strongly counter-indicated - after considering the downsides I decided
doing so is the lesser ill under the circumstances, but please do not
follow my example (do as I say, not as I do ;-():
 1: posting to both  and b.l.h is redundant and will end up
generating duplicate copies (once the LISTSERV comes back up); still I
think it's important to call the attention of users of both these
alternate channels that the spurious signs of life of  in
those secondary redistribution media are deceptive artifacts of being out
of sync with the main LISTSERV's operation (lack thereof right now, that is)
 2: crossposting bit.listserv.* pseudo-groups with Usenet groups proper is
a BAD practice in general, and very bad with b.l.h in particular (due to
it's poor propagation which in turn often slows down even the crossposted
article in other groups); I decided to do so in order to inform those
who're reading the Usenet-gatewayed side of the list (although many are
likely not to receive it while the LISTSERV is down, some may get it
directly via the netnews mechanism)
 3: sending to the list messages dealing with questions of why the list
isn't working makes little sense, since by the time they get transmitted
they become irrelevant (and in the meantime the intended audience don't
see them); while I am not sending this directly to the LISTSERV, both the
HIX and b.l.h mechanisms do it for any posts submitted - unfortunately if
I want to notify readers of those channels when the main LISTSERV
distribution is inoperative there's no way for me to get around it
otherwise.  This means I am contributing at least two extra copies to the
already excessively backlogged load on the listserv traffic, for which I
ask for your forgiveness in advance ;-(! And I'm sorry for what even to my
long-winded self looks like a way too wordy piece, too - but as they say,
I've got not enough time to write briefly ;-)...

 Please note that I set up an ancillary list <mailto:>,
as described below, to facilitate communication on this subject - let me
know if anyone wants to get on that. Please, PLEASE, pretty please if you
follow up to this post do so on that mini-list (or to myself personally)
rather than to either b.l.h or the HIX list!

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

 Visit 'Boycott Internet Spam' <http://www.vix.com/spam/>;

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:52:23 -0800 (PST)

 Dear fellow HUNGARY list users,

 let me start with an apology - hopefully unneeded ;-)-, to anyone among
the addressees who may object to my mailing (which is, after all,
technically an unsolicited bulk email of sorts). Please let me know if you
wish to be removed from this ancillary mini-list and I will do so.
 I am establishing this email discussion group in order to facilitate
communication while our beloved  struggles with whatever
felled it sometime in December. Right now I do not know much about why the
list is not working, but quite obviously it is down for the time being.  I
would like to remind those who access the list via its gatewayed
bit.listserv.hungary Usenet pseudo-group that that channel is merely a
secondary distribution medium - while it may show some false signs of
life, the propagation of posts there is also practically halted, as far as
most potential recipeints concerned, while the LISTSERV is down (and, on
the other hand, will contibute to its backlog when it's coming back on)!

 While this is certainly a patience-trying thing, I'd like to emphasize
that the first thing NOT to do now is try submitting any further posts to
 (either via direct email or in any of the alternative
gatewayed access modes) until we see the server recover. Any further
submissions could only delay it getting back into operational! Also note
that the list owner (who'd typically be the person of choice to notify
about incidents like this) has been incommunicado for quite some time - by
the time he gets back to reading his email no doubt he'll have found out
about the trouble, so please do not fill his email box any further with
questions about the list until after we hear from him. In the meantime I
am trying to track down the technical admin in charge at GWU (if anyone
happens to know that address please let me know ASAP - I remember some
time ago seeing a note from Hugh mentioning that, but it'll take quite
some time for me to dig that up), and will contact that person when I can.
This is all that can be done about the situation at the moment.
 I'll try, as my ample free time permits ;-<, to keep members of this
lists posted about what's happening. Also, if anyone wants to contribute
please write to ' (or @c2.net which is equivalent) -
anything received there I will forward to the others (as well as archive
them and should it appear necessary forward to  when it
revives). To allow for sorting from my rather high volume of personal
email do use the extanded address shown above as opposed to my regular
 address - on the other and if you wish my personal attention
then please send, or copy, the note to me at the latter.
 For those who are wondering about the mechanics of how this is going to
work: not automatically (at least not for a while - for reasons too
involved to get in here), but I will scan this mailbox often and will
hand-deliver stuff several times a day, if necessary. From now on I'll be
using a 'Bcc:' (blind carbon copy) for the addressing, so they will not
appear in the headers - but this time I show them in a visible Cc: field
for reference and am also including the list at the end of this letter. I
intend to place only recent HUNGARY participiants in this group (rather
than trying to reach every subscriber), to minimize wasted bandwith - if
anyone knows of someone else who might want to be included, please let me
(and the person in question as well) know! Hopefully soon we'l be able to
get back on the main HUNGARY list, but in the meantime I hope we can make
this useful for sharing information.

 In closing let me forward a copy of my recent post that I sent when it
seemed, intermittently (and it turned out falsely), as if the list
recovered - perhaps you still find it interesting.

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

 Visit 'Boycott Internet Spam' <http://www.vix.com/spam/>;

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 05:32:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq >
To: "Johanne L. Tournier" >
Cc: Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY >
Subject: Re: More about our next move

On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Johanne L. Tournier wrote:
>[...]
> I can post, as I said, but I am doing it through Netscape and am getting

 That's presumably to the Usenet gateway group bit.listserv.hungary, which
wouldn't do much good unless the LISTSERV is up and running because
that's what's distributing the posts to email subscribers (and propagates
the list traffic back to the b.l.s too)...

>[...]
> I know that several of you have tried
> > to reach Zoli Fekete, Hugh Agnew and Mr. Hollosi without any success.

 As a matter of fact, no-one has tried to reach me (or not hard enough),
since I received nothing ;-()...

> I believe that Zoli Fekete is just a nice guy
 Indeed :-)!

>who keeps the Hungarian
> FAQ and knows a lot about computers and the Internet, but I don't
> believe he has a formal role in relation to our List. Jozsi Hollosi, as
> far as I know, just assembles the List digests and sends them out every
> night, but I don't believe he otherwise is formally involved with the

 Exactly so; unfortunately HIX' help material is somewhat less than
optimal in preventing the many misunderstandings that could result from
the setup, and apparently my FAQ (and additional posted explanations)
aren't doing an adequate job either ;-(...

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

 Visit 'Boycott Internet Spam' <http://www.vix.com/spam/>;

H2      H2: support group for Hungary list users
[listing of original recipients omitted]

Thank you all for your replies. I will check out Hungarian Meats in New
Brunswick. Unfortunately I posted my query a month ago. I did make some dios
beigli (walnut roulade?) though for the holidays. Glad we're back on track!

Anna M.


>En egy elektromos pressokave darolot hasznalok. A kavedaraloban nem ragad a
>mak ossze, ha egy kis cukorral daralom.
>
>Probald ki, gyorsan es konnyen megy!
>
>Gabriella    
>

>Hi Anna,
>
>   You could try the Hungarian butcher in New Brunswick, NJ. The
>shop is willing to ship things anywhere in the country.
>   The address is:
>
>          Hungarian Meats and Deli
>          311 Somerset Street
>          New Brunswick, NJ 08901
>          Tel.: 908, 247 - 8275
>          Fax : 908, 220 - 0542
>
>   I have moved to Florida recently and I have already filled my
>freezer with their kolbasz and hurka.  They ship reasonable fast
>and they are reliable.
>   Good shopping,
>                   Amos

>
>Hi Anna,
>Did anyone respond with information about the ground poppy seeds.  Do
>you know of any mail order company.  I live in Dallas-Ft.Worth, Texas
>area and I also looked for someplace that I could buy the poppy seeds.
>I wanted to make the poppy seed roll for my husband for Christmas.  I
>also had to just make the walnut roll.  One of my recipes said that if
>absolutely necessary the poppy seed filling can be substituted.  Long
>ago I seem to remember seeing that in stores, not any more.
>A year and half ago when we visited Hungary, my sister-in-law made the
>poppy seed roll for my husband Louis.  It was the first time that he had
>been back to Hungary to see his brothers in 38 years.  He did alright
>until our sister-in-law surprised him with the poppy seed dessert, and
>then he began to cry.
>Elaine Roosz
>
>
>

>Istvan Lippai wrote:

>>In my view, it would be no great loss, if this list got cancelled.
>>
>>Istvan Lippai

>After having made that statement, the next logical/intelligent move would
>be for you to unsubscribe.
>
Hear, hear - I second the motion!

> At least, that is what Logical, Intelligent
>
Yeah, but what about Istvan? He is more of a singleton
than a being like you and me.

(snip)
>Aniko

Cheers,
Marina

Dear Colleagues,

The attached letter speaks for itself. It is written in protest against t=
he
Hungarian Academy of Science, which tolerated a meeting on the 4th of
December, 1996, of the "Realistic" Greens (financed by the Slovak
construction firm if Julius Binder) in its building and did not object to=
 the
insults uttered by these "realistic" employees of Mr. Binder. If you agre=
e
with my attached letter, please send one of your own (NOT THIS ONE!!!) to=
 Dr.
Glatz.

Best regards: Bela Liptak

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX=20
Dr. Glatz Ferenc, akad=E9mikus
A Magyar Tudom=E1nyos Akad=E9mia Eln=F6ke
(Fax: 011-361-332-8943)

Tisztelt Eln=F6k =DAr, Kedves Ferenc!

A Binder/Meciar =E1ltal p=E9nzelt  "Re=E1lis"  Z=F6ldek, a Magyar Tudom=E1=
nyos Akad=E9mia
=E9p=FClet=E9ben, 1996 december 4-=E9n tartott gy l=E9s=FCk=F6n Soros Gy=F6=
rgy=F6t =E9s engem CIA
=FCgyn=F6k=F6knek neveztek. P=E1r nappal kor=E1bban, november 26-=E1n, eg=
y londoni  elo"-
ad=E1s=E1ban  Binder k=E9pviselo"je szint=E9n ezeket a  re=E1lis  z=F6lde=
ket id=E9zte, kik
o"t arrol tajekoztattak, hogy =E9n egy  nemzetk=F6zi imposztor  vagyok.
(Mell=E9klet.)
       Elszomor=EDtott, hogy az MTA helyet ad ilyen  "re=E1lis"  szem=E9l=
yeknek, s
az is, hogy a mai napig nem hat=E1rolta el mag=E1t az =E9p=FClet=E9ben el=
hangzott
r=E1galmakt=F3l. Mivel V=E9led csak a k=F6rnyezetv=E9delem iskolai oktat=E1=
s=E1r=F3l
besz=E9lt=FCnk, de jobban nem ismersz, hadd eml=EDsem meg, hogy =E9n szer=
kesztem az
USA  Environmental Engineers' Handbook  c=EDmu"  k=E9zik=F6nyv=E9t, tan=E1=
r vagyok =E9s a
magam p=E9nz=E9t k=F6lt=F6m, most m=E1r 10 =E9ve, a Duna v=E9delm=E9ben.
       Elmondan=E1m azt is, hogy =FAgy keveredtem a Duna v=E9delm=E9be, h=
ogy az MTA
Interdiszciplin=E1ris Bizotts=E1g=E1nak eln=F6ke, Szalay S=E1ndor k=E9rte=
, hogy seg=EDtsek
n=E9kik, mert nemzetk=F6zi t=E1mogat=E1s n=E9lk=FCl nincs es=E9ly=FCk a h=
arcban. Tal=E1n
hallottad, hogy S=E1ndor, (le=E1nyai =E1ll=EDt=E1sa) szerint, m=E9g a hal=
=E1los =E1gy=E1n is a
Szigetk=F6z trag=E9di=E1j=E1r=F3l besz=E9lt, s azt kiab=E1lta, hogy  "ne =
engedj=E9tek"!=20
       Em=E9keztetn=E9lek arra is, hogy elo"d=F6d, Szent=E1gothai J=E1nos=
 b=E1csi, egyike
volt annak a 19 b=E1tor k=E9pviselo"nek, kik m=E9g a fordulat el=F6tt, el=
lene mertek
szavazni a szt=E1lini gigantom=E1nia eme monstrum=E1nak. Egysz=F3val, nem=
 m=E9lt=F3 az
MTA-hoz a jelenlegi f=FClsiket=EDt  hallgat=E1stok.
       Ha =E9rdekel a Duna v=E9delm=E9ben foly=F3 igyekezet=FCnk, k=E9rle=
k olvassad
elektromos h=EDrlapunkat ( home-page ): h ttp://www.goodpoint.com/duna.ht=
m

Sziv=E9lyes =FCdv=F6zlettel,   =20
Liptak Bela

Melleklet:

In article
>, "Peter A.
Soltesz" > writes:

>Subject:       Re: Hurrah! We are back to normal
>From:  "Peter A. Soltesz" >
>Date:  Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:13:19 -0500
>
>Not quite yet I see Sam....I am still waiting for my Christmas Greetings,
>et al to make it. I just got a note yesterday from the server that they
>will re-post after the 50 message limit???
>Regards,
>peter

Hi, Peter! I hope you had a nice holiday. I'm getting the same note you
are every time I post something to the group, even though my posts are
generally returned through the server almost immediately. I've only been
getting it since the List was "fixed," so the gremlin must not be back in
his cell just yet.
Sam Stowe

Istvan Lippai wrote:
>................
<deleted all self aggrandizement>

>It is a different story with Eva Balogh and Joe Szalai.  Eva Balogh was a
>third year student of communist history and philosophy.  You had to be
>communist garbage to choose to take more than the one class required in
>Marxist-Leninist doctrine at the Technical University of Budapest.  Joe
Szalai
>is the product of a communist litter.  Curiously, they both ended up in
>Canada.  The United States did not accept communist garbage.

The Most Venerable Mr. Lippai,

Get your ass off this list. I am sick and tired of your invading this list
and
attacking individuals whom you know nothing about. It is obvious to me as
it
must be to the others on this list, (ever since you appeared on the sceen)
that you are suffering from some disorder of the mind.

(snip,snip)
>I  was at the meeting at the University, marched to the statue of General
Bem >they.............
>gave me a weapon at the University, they also put my name down.  I
suppose >the
>communists got they hands on the list and that is why they were looking
for
>us.  These records should still be somewhere.  Maybe comrades Balogh or
>Szalai
>know where they are.
How dare do you make comments like these!

>Is there anything else?
Yeah! You make us NOT proud to be Hungarian. It reflects poorly on us ---
Hungarians are known to be cultured, intelligent and gifted people.

>Istvan
Marina
\

Kedves Gyuri,

Thank you for the notice.  On January 13, I we (my wife and I) will join, in
spirit, our Hungarian brothers and sisters in paying homage to our fallen
soldiers.

We will also remember those Hungarians who were killed and starved to death in
Russian prison camps.  Those prisoners were worked until they had no meat left
on their bodies.  Most of them would die a week or two weeks after they were
allowed to come home.  Russian doctors would strip them and pinch their skin
to check if they had anything left.

Many of the survivors were arrested and were and either killed or tortured for
years by the communist garbage.  Tollas Tibor, a Hungarian poet and patriot ,
was one of those who spent many years in prison between 1945-1956.  We cherish
our autographed copy of 'Hazafele, Valogatott Versek'.  All of his poems are
beautiful, but my favorite is 'Bebadogoztak Minden Ablakot...'.

I was privileged to met him in 1991.  The last I heard, he was very close to
dying.  His poems describe the suffering they had to endure at the hands of
communist garbage.  What impressed me most about Tollas Tibor is that in spite
of all his suffering, he kept his humanity.

Istvan





----------
From:  Hungarian Discussion List on behalf of I&G Jalsovszky
Sent:  Monday, January 06, 1997 5:54 AM
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  REQUIEM A HOSOKERT

REQUIEM A HOSOKERT

A Honved Hagyomanyorzo Egyesulet, a Hadtorteneti Muzeum, a Budapesti
Helyorseg Parancsnoksaga es a Doni Szovetseg tiszetelettel es szeretettel
hivja a kedves hiveket, kiemelten az elhunyt bajtarsak hozzatartozoit es
baratait a

DON MELLETT ELESETTEK REQUIEMJERE

januar 13-an 10 orakor a budavari Matyas Templomba.

A szentmiset Ladocsi Gaspar tabori puspok celebralja a haboruban reszt vett,
illetve a jelenleg szolgalo tabori lelkeszekkel. Szentbeszedet mond Nadasy
Alfonz OSB. A szentmiset kovetoen koszoruzas lesz a Hadtorteneti Muzeum
udvaran. Az elhunyt katonak emlekere kegyelettel gyertyat gyujtunk.

In article >,
Janos Zsargo > writes:

>Eva, please, don't use such cheap shots. You are not S.Stowe who believes
>WWI was fought for archdukes and moral issues. That conflict was
inevitable
>by that time and Austro-Hungary was tied to Germany by military trieties.
It
>is just a couriosity that the actual cause for WWI was related to Austro-
>Hungary.
>
>J.Zs

This is an outright perversion of the historical record. Janos is implying
that Kaiser Bill started the war and dragged poor, meek, little
Austria-Hungary into it. The Habsburg politicans and generals, the Magyars
among them, were absolutely delighted at the prospect of war in the
Balkans. It's not a curiousity that World War I broke out as a direct
result of Austro-Hungarian belligerence which couldn't be matched by
military performance in the field. It's a tragedy brought on by a gross
miscalculation of the Habsburg society's and economy's structural
abilities to withstand the kind of broad regional conflict the leadership
deliberately ignited.
Sam Stowe

In bit.listserv.hungary,  (Liviu Iordache)
wrote:

>I'm interested in reading a Latin or English version of the 2 June
>1247 diploma by which King Bela IV gave rule over the Land of the
>Severin to the Hospitaller Knights.
>
>Is there anybody kind enough to point toward a suitable reference,
>preferably something I'd be able to find in a North American library.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Liviu Iordache
>

At 08:09 AM 12/11/96 -0400, Johanne L. Tournier wrote:

<snip>
>Thank you, Joe! This is just great! Now, can you tell me where I could get
>those books and Vambery's autobiography, which Eva B. mentioned? Maybe
>inter-library loan if not a local bookstore? Preferably in English, but I
>would take them in Hungarian - it just takes me ages to translate it,
>that's all.

I don't know about his autobiography, but three of the books I mentioned are
in English.  ILL (inter-library loan) is probably your best bet if you want
to get his books.  We have the four books I mentioned and we'd be happy to
lend them to you.  Request them from your local library and they'll get in
touch with us.

Joe Szalai

At 03:30 PM 1/7/97 UT, Istvan Lippai wrote:

<snip>
>I assume more than half of students had similar backgrounds.  Indeed, the
>communists kissed our 'proli' asses.

You should have savoured those moments.  Since then, it's been *you* who's
been kissing asses.

Joe Szalai

"No more painters, no more scribblers, no more musicians, no more sculptors,
no more religions, no more royalists, no more radicals, no more
imperialists, no more anarchists, no more socialists, no more communists, no
more proletariat, no more democrats, no more republicans, no more bourgeois,
no more aristocrats, no more arms, no more police, no more nations, an end
at last to all this stupidity, nothing left, nothing at all, nothing, nothing."
          Louis Aragon

At 02:03 AM 12/12/96 GMT, Agnes Heringer wrote:

>>I have a large extended family and not one was imprisoned or tortured by
>the
>>communists.
>
>You and your family is lucky, Joe.  You have never heard  of anybody who
>was "kitelepitve"? (Deported during the night to somewhere in
>sticksville).

Of course, I heard all sorts of things.  Yet, no one in my extended family
was imprisoned or tourtured by the communists.

<snip>
>Also, I know quite a few friends who were imprisoned in 1957 for their
>participation in the revolution - even those, who were only ideological
>participants.

Would you expect the state, any state, to act differently?

Joe Szalai

Found this in the yesterday's OMRI Daily Digest:

HUNGARIAN NEO-NAZIS COMMEMORATE FASCIST LEADER'S BIRTHDAY. About 100
neo-Nazis gathered at the grave of Ferenc Szalasi on 6 January to mark
the 100th birthday of the Hitler ally, Hungarian and international media
reported. With Nazi assistance, Szalasi became Hungary's fascist leader
in October 1944. During his short leadership, he ordered thousands of
Jews, left-wingers, and deserters killed. Szalasi was executed as a war
criminal in 1946. The Federation of Hungarian Resistance Fighters and
Anti-Fascists protested the neo-Nazis' move in a statement released
through the state news agency MTI. -- Zsofia Szilagyi

HUNGARY, ISRAEL SIGN TECHNICAL COOPERATION PACT. Visiting Hungarian
Foreign Minister Laszlo Kovacs and his Israeli counterpart David Levy on
6 January signed a technical cooperation agreement involving
agricultural and other joint projects, Hungarian dailies reported.
Israel has offered $160,000 over three years to establish in Hungary a
pilot farm equipped with high-tech agricultural technology. During the
first day of his three-day official visit to Israel, Kovacs also met
with a group of Israeli bankers and with Palestinian leader Yasser
Arafat. Kovacs is still scheduled to hold talks with President Ezer
Weizman, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Finance Minister Dan
Meridor. According to Israeli government figures, some 100 Israeli
businesses have invested around $750 million in Hungary, most notably in
the areas of telecommunications, computer software, and pharmaceutical
products. Trade between the two countries totaled about $100 million in
1996. -- Zsofia Szilagyi


OMRI Daily Digest II, No. 4, 7 Jan 97

Dear Group et al:


This is a call for help....  humanly possible obviously did not cut
it.... any suggestions???


Lippai Ur:


You're becoming to resemble a Moron, more and more ....=20

a)  The name is Aniko not Monica.... surely to God, you could at least
get that much straight while intruding?=20


b) you still don't get the message!  <bold>Please stop bothering me
privately!  Address things to the group at large ... from which you ought
to have been un subscribed from days ago based on your forthright
statement?  Why, are you still cropping up in my private mailbox pray
tell?   Let me guess; you are hell bent and determined to jam up the
groups' maximum quota of 50 posts per day ... since you've not found
anything better to do with your body, mind?   May I suggest a good long
shower, with a great big bar of soap guaranteed to last for days?   And
don't get caulky either!  It helps to ease the boredom and desires of the
navy guys, so I hear?


Bandi Damn it!  Where the heck are you when needed anyways?

=20

</bold>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 97 00:49:56 UT

>From: "Istv=E1n Lippai" >

>To: "Aniko Dunford" >

>Subject: RE: Violation of Privacy

>

>Monica,

>

>I am sorry, but I will only response to you with a private e-mail.

>

>Other than telling me how much you dislike me, we are not discussing
anything=20

>of consequence.

>

>Please be assured that I do not harbor any hostility towards you.

>

>Istvan

>

>----------

>From:  Hungarian Discussion List on behalf of Aniko Dunford

>Sent:  Wednesday, January 08, 1997 12:09 PM

>To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY

>Subject:  Violation of Privacy

>

>Lippai Ur:

>

>

>In response to your note as attached below I will try to make this as

>clear as humanly possible: =3D20

>

>From now on, <<bold>Please stop bothering me privately.<</bold>  If,
and

>when you feel the need to further harrass, intimidate, manipulate,
judge,

>or whatever the hell it is you think you're doing, do so via the
group.=3D20

>It becomes easier to filter that way.

>

>

>As for your help?  Thanks.  Acceptance would surmount to playing
Russian

>Roulette.  And since I abhor the very concept of the game, along with

>guns et al, well... I am sure that you can self-categorize the value=20
of

>of your offered help.

>

>Aniko - the "young, troubled, searching for roots *not* hungarian".

>

>

>

F.Novak (NFerenc) wrote:

>were different.  And where does Batthyany come in?  For those who don't know,
>he was the prime minister of the government under Kossuth and was shot by the
>Austrians in 1849.

And is good to know, why. He stayed in Pest-Buda (Budapest) to wait the
Austrians. As far as I know he still believed he could arrange a compromise
between Kossuth and the King. Windisgraetz (the austrian general) did not bothe
r
himself and his Kaiser with Batthyany's ideas he simple ordered Batthyany's
execution. Funny, isn't it? We really need realist like Batthyany (at least
according S.Stowe).
I would not be surprised if our self-appointed Hungary-expert (S.Stowe)
mixed Szechenyi and Batthyany. At least, to mention Deak and Szechenyi
together would have made sense.

J.Zs

At 10:22 AM 1/8/97 -0500, Eva Balogh wrote:

>        All of you who have a *burning desire* to see what kinds of dogs I
>breed, my nine-months-old basset hound's picture in living colors is
>available on the Internet. His name is Brevis Stanford and he is one of the
>nicest-looking basset you ever want to see. He is a red-and-white which is
>not unusual but not very common either. Most of the basset hounds are
>tri-colored: black, brown, and white. In addition to being a very handsome
>fellow he is also a sweet-sweet dog.
>
>        Here is the address: htp://www.princeton.edu/~nadelman/bhca/futop.jpg

For those of you who try to get to this site by clicking on it in Eudora Pro
or similar programs, please correct "htp" to "http", otherwise it won't work.

By the way, what is futurity?

Gabor D. Farkas

In article >,  (Andrew
J. Rozsa) writes:

>C'mon, Sam. Stove it! You are replying to an individual with a
>significant character flaw and with a florid thought disorder.

Sure it isn't a "fluoride" thought disorder? That would explain a whole
lot. Hey...how come you write about him in more glowing terms than I do?

>Maintaining a dialog with him would smack of masochism. Unless your
>intent is to entertain the troops.... in which case, by all means,
>keep it up. We all need a laugh, now and then. <G>

We have met the enemy and he has an ISP account in Colorado. You might
want to think of me as the Bob Hope or Martha Raye of
bit.listserv.hungary. The really funny thing is he keeps e-mailing me
privately even after I informed him that I was too busy to trade barbs
privately.
Sam Stowe
>
>.... I suddenly had a vision of orwellian thought police burning
>listserv lists... brrrrrrr.....
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------
>Andrew J. Rozsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA
>             
>
>




"Free your mind and
your ass will follow..."
-- George Clinton

Eva Balogh wrote:

        And finally and very seriously, if Mr. Lippai doesn't not stop this
character assassination he may receive a letter from my lawyer.

        Eva Balogh
*********************************************************
I am shaking all over.  I can hardly wait to have comrade Balogh bring me
before a jury of twelve (12) citizens of United States.  In the State of
Colorado.  This is the American West and these people have no love for
communists or communist sympathizers.

I would show how used private e-mail to trick me, and the other e-mail where
you called me garbage six (6) times.  They would probably laugh you out of the
country.

This is the United States, not Hungary under communist rule.

Lippai Istvan

On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Eva S. Balogh wrote:
SNIPPETTY...
>
>         And finally and very seriously, if Mr. Lippai doesn't not stop this
> character assassination he may receive a letter from my lawyer.
>
>         Eva Balogh
>
Dear Eva:
I see that Mr. L has gotten under your skin. Too bad!. Let me say this at
least that no matter what transpired -- as they say in Hungarian
(translated) even a stopped clock is right twice a day! ---

BTW your "threat" is idle in that I do not think any lawyer (from Canada
no  less) would get involved in writing a letter [else it will cost lots
of CDN$].

I agree with Aniko that Mr. L should refrain from sending any more
personal "attack" letters and keep it on the BBS. Let us sniker, smile,
laugh, o whatever......in public.

Regards,
Peter Soltesz

At 1:17 PM -0800 12/15/96, S or G Farkas wrote:
>At 09:41 AM 12/6/96 -0500, Darren Purcell wrote:
>
>>by the way, does anyone know if the demonstrations have moved northward to
>>Ujvidek/Novi Sad or Szabadka/Subotica? Or is the Magyar minority in
>>voivodina simply watchng at the moment, albeit with great patience?
>On my recent trip to Hungary and Romania I did see scenes of demonstration
>in Ujvidek/NoviSad. Duna TV and the Romanian TV showed scenes of students
>demonstrating in the city. There was no word about the Hungarians. However,
>I did read somewhere about a debate within the Hungarian parties there.
>Apparently they did get a substantial share of the vote and could not decide
>whether to join a coalition with Milosevic's party (and thus participate in
>the government) or just say no and feel good about themselves (and be ready
>for the change of regime that was to be expected).
>
>Gabor D. Farkas

Recently they did join Milosevic's party and formed a coalition with them
locally. The Hungarians were the only opposition party in the area and
since Milosevic is now in trouble his local boys found it convenient to be
friendly to the local Magyars.

Peter I. Hidas

While the our list was tripped by overload I did some checking about the
list traffic. I was curious to see how it changed over the years. I
compared the number of letters posted last October with the number of
letters posted in October 1992. The results are summerized below:

                                      Oct. 1992  Oct. 1996
> -------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Contributors                    68           94
Number of letters                        262          766
 - PETER A. NEMENYI                       33
 - JOE PANNON                             34
 - Eva S. Balogh                                       76
 - Peter A. Soltesz                                   101
> --------------------------------------------------------------
Two interesting observations:

The increase in the number of contributors is surprisingly small, but the
increase in the number of letters is more than doubled. It grew from an
average 3.85 letter per month to 8.15 letter per month per contributor.

In each case two individuals contributed 10% or more than the total
traffic.

Barna Bozoki

No. Please look at the construction, the grammar of the various language
families. Vocabulary only indicates possible contacts amongst peoples.

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

At 09:32 AM 07/01/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Dear Aniko, Eva Balogh, Eva Dunford;

>

<<snippety> ... as you would say, ...

>the only thing that I am saying is that opening and publishing a private

>letter is generally unacceptable. I am not here to defend nor detract

>fromMr. L -- he does it well for himself.


Oh really, how so?


>The basic issue is that he (or anyone) sending you a private letter --

>regardless of its content -- should not be published without his approval.

>

>One can say many things and should have the courage and decency to say so in

>public rather than in private letters.

>

>From reading one that was posted and others via inference, he has upset

>you all.  Still the issue is that the letter was private and should be

>kept that way.  There is a "presumed" understanding that the other side will

>honor the code of ethics.

>Perhaps you feel that he violated your standards, then anything goes, but

>then it made you step down one level -- I do not hink that is any of you

>want.


Sorry Peter, but that's big time pupukaka.... !  First, you come down on E.B,
 for publishing it.... then, you utilize your well practiced back paddle tactic
.
  Reality is just like Durant stated ... once opened, it becomes your own to do
 with as you like .... for a change, I have to side with E. Durant on this one!
 Not to mention my original point, that being who's violating who's privacy?
 Btw ... the addressed  above, would be Eva Durant, not Dunford! I, along wiht
 my husbands' famliy would appreciate, that it be kept in the correct context?





<bold><italic><fontfamily><param>MS
Serif</param><color><param>ffff,0000,ffff</param>Regards,

Aniko D.

</color></fontfamily></italic></bold>

At 5:14 PM +0100 12/13/96, Zimanyi Magdolna wrote:
>Dear Hungary list,
>
>In HUNGARY#872 on Tue Dec 10 there were several letters about
>Armin Vambery by Johanne L. Tournier, Joe Szalai and Eva Balogh.
>
>May I add that Vambery was an ardent supporter of the theory that the
>Hungarian language and the Hungarians themselves belong to the family
>of Turkish people and languages instead of the Finno-Ugrians.
>
>His book "A magyarsag keletkezese es gyarapodasa" -- a not very
>precise translation of the title: "The origin and growth of the
>Hungarians"  -- originally published in 1895 was published in a
>reprint edition in 1989 by the publishing house "Holnap" in Budapest,
>in Hungarian language. I found the book a very interesting reading.
>
>regards
>
> Magdolna Zimanyi
> KFKI Research Institute for Particle  Phone: +36-1-395-9151
> and Nuclear Physics                   FAX:   +36-1-395-9242
> Computer Networking Center            E-mail: 
>   !! Phone and FAX number changed on 7 December '96 !!
> H-1525 Budapest 114, POB. 49, Hungary URL: http://www.kfki.hu/~mzimanyi
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

We all have our faults. VAmbery was not perfect either.

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

At 5:42 PM -0500 12/12/96, Joe Szalai wrote:
>Radio Canada International lives.  Most Canadians were "led to believe"
>that, as a result of massive ($414 million, 3,200 jobs so far!) cuts to the
>CBC, Radio Canada International would cease broadcasting last March.  It
>didn't, and this week, after we were told that it would stop next March, we
>were told that RCI was a branch of the Department of Foreign Affairs.  Today
>we were told that several government departments will redirect enough funds
>to keep RCI going.  You never know what they'll tell you next.  Enjoy the
>Hungarian language programme, if it's still on.
>
>Joe Szalai

The Hungarian language division was closed several years ago.

At 09:24 AM 1/8/97 -0500, Peter Soltesz wrote:
>I agree with Mr. Hidas' comment that if one had good grades one could get
>into most Hungarian universities, refardless of social status.

        Hmm, hmm, this is somewhat misleading. This was definitely not the
case. I almost didn't get into gymnasium because of my social origin.
Several of my classmates from elementary school actually didn't, and it had
nothing to do with grades. In fact, the "family" was totally prepared for
daughter being barred from high school and they made early attempts at
getting me into the famous Baar-Madas, a boarding- and day-school of the
Hungarian Reformed Church. Indeed, it was in the last minute, about
three-four days before beginning of the school-year before we got the word
that I was accepted in the local gymnasium. My parents still wanted me to go
to the Baar-Madas but I refused saying that from there, I surely would never
get into college. In any case, Baar-Madas "was given" to the state two years
later and I would have ended up in the same local girls' gymnasium except
two years later and my college acceptance would have been very much a
question mark.
        Yes, they tried everything in their power to prevent the children of
the upper, upper-middle, middle-classes to follow in their parents'
footsteps. They didn't quite succeed but at the same time they managed to
create a new middle- professional-class from the children of working and
peasant classes. Today the members of professional class, for the most part,
are first-generation college-educated people.

        Eva Balogh

At 06:28 AM 12/12/96 GMT, Paula Cserei wrote:
>Hello Everyone!
>
>I am third year student at Mount Holyoke College in Massachusetts, and I
>was wondering if anyone could recommend a good place to look for summer
>interships in hungary.  I understand the practice is not common there,
>but I would like to use my studies (in international relations) and my
>language skills (fluent in Hungarian and Romanian with advanced knowledge
>of Spanish), to possibly earn money and work in a country I love.
>I would appreciate any help anyone could give me.
>
>I seldom check this newsgroup, so if you could email me any info that
>would be the greatest.  My email is 
>
>Thank you anyone in advance!!!

        I wish I could be more helpful but not long time ago I read
somewhere that there is a website of job listings for foreigners in Hungary.
Maybe someone else still has the address or you could find the site by going
a search program like Excite. As far as I know there are at least 20,000
Americans in Budapest at the moment. Quite a community. They even have their
own theater.

        Eva Balogh


        You also might want to write to

Paula:

>Also I would believe his name would be spelled Alma'si, since the letter
>y does not really figure in Hungarian spelling unless it is in the letter
>gy, ny, or ty...but I may be wrong on this.

        You are semi-right. It letter "y" does occur when it comes to family
names with old fashion spelling when, just like in English, orthography
wasn't taken terribly seriously. Sometime "i" was spelled "y" and so on. In
fact, "y" sound more elegant and more "noble" to Hungarian eyes/ears than an
ordinary "i" and people often use "y" illegally. I am not even sure whether
this particular Mr. Almasy was a nobleman or not. There was an Almasy family
which had nobility "gro'f Alma'sy" family but the biographical dictionary I
consulted doesn't not mention any "gro'f" in front of this particular
Alma'sy's name.

        Eva Balogh

At 02:17 AM 12/15/96 -0500,Ferenc Novak wrote:

>The above is an interesting case of somebody discussing a topic he knows
>precious little about, and, again, trying to mask his ignorance by attacking
>his opponent, not the issue.  He [Sam Stowe] obviously has no clue as to
how the 1948 War
>of Independence influenced the relations between Austria and Hungary, finally
>resulting in the Compromise of 1867, credited in large part to Deak.

        Well, please, explain me how the comprimise of 1867 resulted from
1848, except if we didn't have a bloody civil war we would have needed a
compromise! But, for Pete's sake, Deak simply tried to make right what went
wrong in 1848-1849. So, don't try to make it sound as if Kossuth was, even
indirectly, responsible for the Compromise. In fact, he never accepted the
compomise and refused to return to Hungary although he could have.

        Eva Balogh

A while back the setup of the HUNGARY list was changed so that only subscribers
could mail a message through the list.  This was to keep out sundry hawkers
and loonies using mail servers for inappropriate purposes.

Opening the gateways to bit.listserv.hungary and soc.culture.magyar has
all but wiped out this protection and we are once again subjected to such
material.

Experts, please, is there anything that could be done ?

Would it be possible for the listserver not to propagate messages that are
mailed through the Usenet groups by non-subscribers, and bounce them back to
the sender along with a warning and subscription information ?  This would
offer some protection to those who subscribe to the mailing list proper and
provide information to those who are posting from outside of the list in good
faith.

George Antony

Thanks for the refined translation.  I took Eva's Thy as a misprint
for the nominative Thou, and you're right the verb would be floggest.
For rhyming and emphasis  the syntax could perhaps better be

        With which for my sins Thou floggest my limbs

or even

        With which my limbs Thou floggest for my sins.

(That last is pretty strained.)


Thanks again.

Norma Rudinsky




On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Louis Elteto wrote:

> >At 02:28 AM 12/10/96 -0800, Norma wrote:
> >
> >>That is, I'm sorry to have to admit that I want
> >>to be reassured that it is not one of Balassi's love poems but instead
> >>one of his religious ones. For those who don't know, in the 16/17th
> >>centuries of the Renaissance and Baroque periods the two kinds of poetry
> >>were much closer than we moderns would expect.
> >>
> >>
> >>Felseges uristen!  es kemeny ostorod,
> >>Kivel tagaimat
> >>Buneimert nekem igen ostorozod
> >
> >        You can be assured that it is a religious poem and therefore in the
> >first line (title) instead of "you," or "You," maybe you should use "Thy."
> >
> >"Heavenly Father! and Thy harsh whip,
> >With which Thy severely flog my limbs for my sins"
> >
> >        Not very elegant but this is the best I can do. Perhaps Gabor
> >Fencsik can be more eloquent.
> >
> >        By the way, you are right. Balassi was a great poet and it is too
> >bad that his poems are not available even in inferior translations.
> >
> >        Eva Balogh
>
>
> Suggestion for line 2 of E.B.'s translation:
>
> With which Thou severely floggest my limbs for my sins
>
> or
>
> With which Thou severely doest flog my limbs for my sins
>
>
> Louis Elteto
>

Dear friends (if I still have any among irate list-subscribers!:-():

I must apologize for the bulk of the problems the list has been under-
going.  Between terms I was not in Washington, and, as some of you worked
out, the list traffic rose to such heights that the list froze several
times and I was not able to get into it to free it for several days at a
time.  The messages that were sent to the list were kept, and should by
now have all been released, and I will be working with my technical
support people here to raise the level at which the list freezes to
take account of the possibility of greater traffic.  It's hard to judge
when you all will suddenly start generating more than 50 messages a day.

As if this was not enough, the mainframe (an antique IBM) suffered two
"major crashes" as our computer center expressed it, during the holidays,
though I'm not aware of any loss of data, it surely couldn't have helped
the situation much.

I _hope_ that things will now run more smoothly again, and I apologize to
you all for the hassles and interruptions.  If it's not too late (after
all by the Orthodox calendar it is only New Year's Eve today) I'd like
to wish you all the best in 1997, and no more logjams!

At least your reaction to the temporary interruption of function on the
list reassures me that there's some reason to keep it in existence!

Sincerely,

Hugh Agnew

>I agree with Mr. Hidas' comment that if one had good grades one could get
>into most Hungarian universities, refardless of social status.

But if one had "good" social status, one could get into most Hungarian
universities, regardless of grades. Sometimes even in place of one, who had
good grades but "bad" social status:(

Lajos Monoki

Istvan Lippai:

>>It is a different story with Eva Balogh and Joe Szalai.  Eva Balogh was a
>>third year student of communist history and philosophy.  You had to be
>>communist garbage to choose to take more than the one class required in
>>Marxist-Leninist doctrine at the Technical University of Budapest.  Joe Szala
i
>>is the product of a communist litter.  Curiously, they both ended up in
>>Canada.  The United States did not accept communist garbage.

Mr. Lippai: I don't know you personally, I am much younger than you (I wa
born in 1967), but I have one remark: from my experience those who loudly
accuse communists and communism were in most cases closely linked to the
past system. It seems they have a bad conscience and want to change their
past. Maybe you are not one of them, but reading your postings I have this
feeling.

Lajos Monoki