Tibor Pasztor  > wrote:
>
>A megkeresztelkedett zsido - vagy inkabb a vallasat elhagyo zsido - a 
>Talmud szerint bunt kovet el, de a vetkezo zsido is zsido. Tehat a Talmud 
>szerint valoban zsido marad. Ennel azonban fontosabb, hogy o mit erez. 
>Nekem van kikeresztelkedett zsido baratom, aki magat keresztenynek 
>tartja, s van olyan, aki zsidonak, de a vallasa kereszteny. Egyikuk sem 
>tartotta a zsido vallast, viszont manapsag ahhoz, hogy valaki zsido 
>legyen, nem tartozik hozza szuksegszeruen, hogy vallasos is.

No vegre egy tisztesseges, nem mocskolodo valasz!
Hat igy is lehet. 

Pannon J.

In article >, Ivan Marinov <int0108> wrote:

> Bocsanatot kerek, meg tudna valaki mondani a budapesti Internet-kavehaz 
> postai es elektronikus cimet ?


The last online issue of NARANCS had an ad/article on it.  You might check
it out.  Point your browser to the magyar narancs page.

=GFH=

A multkor valaki gyozelemkent unnepelte, hogy a Soros Alapitvanyt
Jugoszlaviabol "kitiltottak". Ezt olvastam a Magyar Narancs elektronikus
kiadasaban. Nem ertem, miert orult ennek valaki?

>Sorost kitiltott=E1k Jugoszl=E1vi=E1b=F3l A szerb Legfels=F5bb B=EDr=F3s=E1g m
=FAlt >p=E9nteken megsz=FCntette a jugoszl=E1viai Sor=
os Alap=EDtv=E1ny bejegyz=E9s=E9t. 
>A kitilt=E1ssal egyen=E9rt=E9k=FB hat=E1rozat nyom=E1n megsz=FBnik sz=E1z eg=E
9szs=E9g=FCgyi >int=E9zm=E9ny gy=F3gyszerell=E1t=E1sa=
, egy =F6tmilli=F3 doll=E1ros gyermekeg=E9szs=E9g=FCgyi >program finansz=EDroz=
E1sa, a 30 ezer menek=FClt =E9s csal=E1djaikt=E1mogat=
=E1sa, >iskolai csereprogramok =E9s egyetemi =F6szt=F6nd=EDjak szervez=E9se. 
-- 

Tamas GAAL

In article >,  > wrote:

| 
| Andris, igen alapos tapasztalat alapjan (ld. Forum archivum) tana-
| csolhatom Neked is, masoknak is, nem szabad ezekre egy szem-
| pillantas energiat pazarolni. Lehet, hogy a kommunizmus (vissza-
| terte) ellen is hiabavalo az erobefektetes. Inkabb karba menjen
| azonban az energia, mint pocsekba!
|

Kulon javaslom azt a levelsorozatot (tavaly tavasszal) amely
miatt aztan Pellionisz Andras jobbnak latta egy par honapig
nem irni, miutan szinte minden cikkben kiderult rola hogy
valami amit mondott meg csak nem is lehet tevedes- hanem hazugsag.

Egyebkent pedig Pellionisz Andras meg nekem is jon egy
bocsanatkeressel az utolso hazugsaga (ragalmazasa) miatt. 

Istvan

Dear Reader,

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the republics of the former Soviet bloc, please visit the homepage of the 
British Helsinki Human Rights Group:


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Belarus, the Baltic States, Romania, Moldova, Slovakia, Macedonia and the 
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republics since 1992. The homepage lists the reports which are still in 
print. The Group aims to take a critical and independent view on the 
situation in the region. The BHHRG also seeks to maintain contacts with 
and provide support for human rights groups in the countries concerned.
   For more information and for information on prices please contact the 
BHHRG on:


e-mail: 


The BHHRG is a registered UK charity and relies for its work entirely on 
volunteers. All proceeds from the sale of its reports will be used to 
fund its activities in Central and Eastern Europe and former Soviet Asia.

In article >, Tibor Odor  > wrote:
| Dear Netters,
| 
| Several people asked me to give detailed information on Soros's
| wrongdoings in Hungary. Now  I do not have the possibility to give
| this information because presently I am in Vienna and I do not have 
| my notes with me. But before sending the detailed information
| I give a short list.

Your list is not short in length - but - and that's probably
not what you meant - short in actual content.
 
| And a personal note. I never applied for any kind of Soros
| stipendium.  I am not interested in ethnic origin of people
| and I do not have any religious prejudice. I do not hate rich
| people, at least for the reason that they are rich.
| So do not take these short-cuts in your brain before/after reading my 
| writing.


| 1. Soros  very negative role under the Blocad of Taxi Drivers.
|    His anti-hungarian views were disclosed in the Hungarian TV
|    in an interview with him. He said very controversial things
|    about hungarianness and the National Anathem which hurt the
|    vast majority of the Nation on either side of the
|    Blocad.

I didn't hear this. I am not sure what he said about the
National Anthem however I heard various rewrites of the
National Anthem here on different sitcoms... as well as
criticisms of it. Interestingly - noone thinks it's Anti American.



|    It is very disturbing that the film mada about this interview
|    is closed for reusage. Somebody (I forgot his name, and this is 
|    an example, why I need those notes so badly) wanted to use 
|    some part of the interview, but he did not have access to 
|    the original one.

Could you at least quote  in your worn words what  he said?
[...]

| 
|    He agreed with and maybe supported the unconstitutional Blocad.
|    The first part of the statement is a fact, the second part seems to be
|    a well founded guess.


Is when you agree with some Hungarians and not others an
example of being anti-Hungarian?


| 2. He supports journals and newspapers, Magyar Narancs, Beszelo and other
|    garbages which otherwise cannot survive on the market. 

You call these magazines garbage. That is your opinion. It
is treue that without financial support they would likely be
unable to survive on the market - but the same is true of
almost all Hungarian culture including most of book
publishing, theater, concerts (classical).. Or even Duna TV
Are they also garbage? 

|    This is extremely harmful in Hungary because on the media
|    market the conservative side historically underdeveloped.
|    His supportation strategy, among other things, resulted the 
|    present situation, that the press and media cannot regarded as
|    free. (I do not beleive that there exists "half
|     freedom".)

I fail to see how his support of these magazines would cause
the underdevelopment of conservative media, espoecially if
you were right that these publications were garbage. Someone
who is conservative will not buy Magyar Narancs instead of a
conservative magazine. 


| 2'. He supports HIX. :-)

And? 


| 
| 3. He supports people and views which are extremely harmful for the
|    society. For example he strongly supports the idea of free distribution
|    of hard drugs (not only marijuana, but LSDand maybe cocain). 
|    He supports abortion too.

I have no idea where the first piece of info comes
from. I've heard no such statement or opinion beofre. Also I
doubt he supports abortion. He may support the right for
someone to have an abortion though.

 
| 4. He is completely against the Hungarian nation. He hates everything
|    which is made or done by ethnic hungarians. (Remember for the Anathem 
|    issue.)


This is ridiculous. He spends a huge amount of money
furthering Hungarian Litearture, culture, ethnography. 
 


| He supports the enemies
|    of the nation. (He gave money to Corneliu Vadim Tudor and his daughter,
|    and as far as I know he gave money to Gheorghiu Funar
| too.) 

And Csurka...

|    He supports fomer members of the AVH.

IN what way?

|    His closest
|    advisors are communists, for example Miklos Vasarhelyi.


Do you consider Imre Nagy a communist?

|    (Even if they had some role in 1956.
|    Gyula Horn also fought on the side of the revolution for 3 days.
|    But he changed his mind in time. Those people simply were not so 
|    clever.)
|    He supports the members of the nomenklature, while he speaks about the
|    "open society".

What do you mean by nomenclature and in what way does he
support them?

|    Naturally, he gives money for others too, but take into account the
|    proportions please!

I will take into account the proportions as soon as you
mention some. SO far you have mentioned - nothing.

|    (I am aware that this statement is difficult to prove, because 
|    the list of people
|    who is or was supported by the Soros Foundation as far as I know
|    is not open for everyone. 

You are mistaken. THe Soros Foundation publishes a list of
grants allocated in the previous year. It is publicly available information.

And I do not have the right to spy on
|    the Soros Foundation. Maybe the Czechs, the Serbs and other nations 
|    did that, and they found the policy of Soros very harmful. And they
|    got rid of him.)

So damned if he helps them damned if he doesn't. 

| 
|    We should protest for the opening of these files! Especially because
|    he is working ---at least in words--- for the "open society".
|    He should it openly, not as the Secret Police!
|    After the opening of these files we could decide wether my opinion ---and
|    the opinion of other other critics of Soros--- is
|    well founded or not. To this point we have to judge on those information
|    which were disclosed by the press and the media and we could collect under
|    our personal experience, as I did.)


YOur point above is completely mute. The info is publicly available.

| 
| 5. It is a lie that Soros gave all the money, which is distributed
|    through his Foundation.
|    The Hungarian state gave half of the money which was given to
|    people. It was not mentioned at all.

Mentioned by whom? I knew this so did you apparently. 
BTW this is not true of all the grants


|    The Hungarian state ---mistakenly---
|    also gave buildings for free for the Central European University.
|    The press try to sell it as if it were a private money, and
|    they form the opinion on this basis that Soros can do with these things
|    whatever he wants because it is his money.

This  previous sentence is confusing and ambiguous. Please
clarify.


|    Because he gave money for his Foundation, he did not have to pay certain
|    taxes. And he imitated that he gave money several times. For example, if y
ou
|    wanted to take TOEFL exam in Hungary in 1994, you could pay for it 
|    only through
|    the Soros Foundation. 

That is just not true. 

| You could get checks in the Szabo Ervin library,
|    Budapest, you had to fill in, and you could pay in forint.
|    The check stated that you payed this money by the help of
|    Soros Foundation. I showed this check to several people who speaks
|     both English and Hungarian very well. All of them thought that
|    this text indicates that the Soros Foundation payed ALL the money,
|    not only the changing of the money on market value.

BUt in fact that's not what it indicates. I don't remember
what the check says - but if what you said is accurate it
does not mean that. 

|    Some people who worked in the Ministry of Education under the 
|    previous gorvernement said that not only these checks were used 
|    to get back taxes unlawfully.

As I understand this would not have allowed him to get a tax
refund. 

|    Because several people had to take TOEFL in  Hungary, I hope
|    they can justify my statements. This is a very small amount of money.
|    This is a reason why I found this story very
interesting.

I do too. 

| 
|    This is the "philantropist" Soros.

In your opinion.
| 
| 6. The National Debt is his favorite issue. He wanted to buy the Hungarian
|    National Debt and using his influence he wanted to introduce an "open" 
|    political
|    system. The "extremist" and "racist" Jozsef Antall disclosed these facts.
|    Now he wants something, which seems to be even worst than his original
|    ideas.

THis again is confusing. First of all I am unaware that
Jozsef ANtall would have ever said what ou claim. Secondly
Soros could and can buy the National Debt any day he wants
to and he has the money to do it. Also - I doubt that if he
bought the national debt he'd have the power to change the
politcal system in Hungary, and what the something he wants
that is worse then an open political system is I can't
evenbegin to imagine. 


| 7. He tried to undermine the Hungarian bank system trying to occupy
|    OTP (the largest and most important bank in Hungary) by a plot.
|    (OTP is under moderate, not anti-hungarian communist rule. It is very 
|    painful for the liberal anti-hungarian extremists who are the best 
|    friends of Soros.)


How can you occupy a bank by a plot? I understand how you can buy one,
but how can you occupy one? What bank is under
anti-Hungarian communist rule? In fact what does it mean for
a bank to be under communist rule? If Soros would have
bought the bank would it have been under communist rule?
Whao are the friends of Soros who are anti-Hungarian
extremists? What makes them anti-hungarian extremists?
 
 
|    
| 8. Hundreds of other things.

WOW>.. NOw I am convinced
| 
| I think,  if 10% of my statements were true, it would be enough reason 
| to get rid of Soros. 


Especially the hundreds of other things.. if ten of those
were true... The probnlem is that you failed to point out
even ONE fact - not 10%

also... what do you mean by getting rid of Soros?

I hope the next governement oust him and his 
| Foundation from the country.
| I find it very sad and almost ridiculous that a person can buy a significant
| part of the entelectuals of a nation

How did he buy the intellectuals of the Nation? WHo seld
them to him? What claim does he have on them?

|. It is due to the present economical
| and political situation. The communism weekened the nation so much that
| it lost all of its ability to resist these type of actions.
| 
| But I hope our eyes will be opened and we have the ability to take the 
| necessary action.
| 
| I do not say that everybody is bad who accepted or applied for Soros
| Stipendium. Media and the press misleaded the people. People, like
| Victor Orban (president of the FIDESY-MPP), who spent a lot of time in 
| the US learning the extreme liberalism (brrrrrr....) by the help of Soros
| Foundation, can change their opinion if they are openminded, faithful
| to the Hungarian nation and intellectually honest.

Orban was mislead by the media?! How so? Which media? Isn't
your time line a little confused?
 
| I do not suggest to any Hungarian to have connection with him or his 
| Foundations.

I did.. NOt much, I got a one time supplementary grant. My
only obligation to them was that as I concluded they asked
me to briefly summarized what I did. They didn't ask for  
my soul, they never asked me what my political, national,
religions identification was. In fact they gave me the grant
without so much as an interview. 

| As I suggested in my previous mail on this issue, (Subject: Answer to
| the open letter of Csaba Zoltani) it is possible that a jury do not
| find these facts completely provable by its standards.

THat's pretty likely. Among other things because Hungary
doesn't ahve a jury system.

| But in politics 
| I think it is enough that they are not refutable. 

Enough for what? And what do you mean by "in politics"?
Are you instituting a presumption of guilt?


We cannot prove
| everything without doubt, because using a complicated strategy one can 
| generate so complicated cases which is not possible to uncover in 100 years
| while we do not have 100 days to take the anaviodable
actions.

SO far you haven't made a statement worth evaluating. 

| And we also do not have the right to collect data on Soros on certain ways
| which could help as to justify our statements without
doubt.

Once again - what information do you need that you don't
have access to?
| 
| In my opinion well founded unrefutable serious doubt and some really proved 
| statements which support these doubts  should be enough in politics 
| to take the necessary steps.

Depends on what the neccessarry steps are.

| In this issue this is the case. To decide what is the intention of
| Soros with the National Debt for example, only one person can say
| sure things. Soros Himself.

Also it is irrelevant. Especially since he didn't buy the
national debt.


| This comes from the epistemological situation.
| But humans have the ability to guess the real intentions of the others.
| They are wrong several times, sometimes very wrong, but the existence of
| this ability is one of the reason why we can survive. So for me the 
| suggestion in non-scientific or
| judical issues that not to take these guesses, and to restrict orselves
| only for pure facts seems to be extremely ridiculous.

Is that only true between you and Soros or let's say betwen
me and you also? You know now you throw out not just the
presumption f innocence, but even judgment based on
fact... you have successfully said that - your opinion -
without any factual basis - should be grounds for taking
political and probably legal action against an
individual. This to me is unbelieveable.


 Especially because
| those "proved facts" usually not more than widespread interpretation
| of certain feelings and social patterns.

You are starting to lose even the little coherency you had
so far. If proved facts are not more then widespread
iterpretation of certain feelings and social patterns (what
this means is more then a bit murky) then those are not
proved facts. If you say that the two are the same - hen you
have NO CLUE what proven and what fact means.

| 
| If one read through this short list he or she can see that it is not short
| at all. This is the other reason why I could not give detailed information
| at least in this very day.


The short list that is not short at all. But I agree. It is
long in legth but short in content. 
| 
| But I hope, I can enclose soon the results of investigations against Soros
| which is continued by the US Finance Ministry. :-)

??

| 
| But the BCCI story showed that to uncover the crimes of a bank or
| other big financial institution takes about 10 years. So Soros 
| has 6 years in the US. (But I hope, he has only 6 months in Hungary.)

I think your statement speaks for itself. 
 
| And this happens only if there is no serious lobby
| in the state who wants to wash clean the participants. The story of Maxwell
| brothers and O.J. Simpson showed that it is not possible to punish
| criminals if a serious lobby has  certain political and/or financial
| interest in it.
| 

THis opne too.. How can you put a number on how long crimes
commited at a bank can take to investigate? How does
lobbying have to do with the OJ Simpson decision?

Uhh... this article was really not worthy of response.

Bodi Antalnak uzennem Nyiregyhazara hogy egyaltalan nem tamogatom a 
     felhivasat, sot tiltakozom ellene. A vitapartner elhallgattatasa (ezt 
     a regi rendszer "jol" csinalta) nem oldja meg a nemzetepites korul 
     felmerult problemakat. Ahelyett hogy szonyeg ala sepernenk a fontos, 
     neha kenyes kerdeseket, merjuk vallalni a vitat! A regi rendszer 
     gondosan kerulte e problemak felveteset, kozben "gulyas 
     kommunizmussal" etette a nepet.
     Ket ellentetes velemeny osszecsapasa eszlelheto a sokszor durva 
     vitakban, de merem remelni mindannyian szeretnenk valahogyan 
     hozzajarulni a szep kis hazank feltamadasahoz, vagy megis tevedek?   
     fodor

> wrote:
>
>yes, canada. it's the ernst zundel connection. and ironically, in canada
>it is illegal to disseminate hate propaganda. which is why they are so
>intent on doing it on the net... where canadian laws do not apply.

It's common practice on Internet to include quotes from the text one is
commenting on.  Especially when one accuses somebody with spreading
hate propoganda.  It's rather instructive how such quotes are missing 
in this case.  It's obvious why; because there was none.  All I remember
reading from Judit was pointing out that Jews were not only victims in
Hungary in the last 80 years or so, but took more than their share in
communist attrocities as well.  I submit this is neither hate propoganda, 
nor anti-semitism.  If you really want to see some consistent hate
propoganda, you ought to visit the soc.culture.polish news group where
the most common thread titles are like: "Why do Jews hate Poland so
much?", or "Why is there so much anti-Polonism?"  It takes only a
cursury reading there to figure out who spreads the hate propoganda.
The same is the case in this news group, though in much lesser degree.
Throwing around labels, like "anti-semitism" is getting to be a bit
warn out, especially in this election season when even one of the major
Republican candidates is branded with it.  It's laughable!

Get a life, Elizabeth & Co.!

Joe

Soha semmit se irtam a Forumba. Megis kicenzurazott a
hikszjozsi. Csak azert, mert itt vettem ki internetet:
http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet/951226.html
Le van irva a Nemzetben az egesz, en is beleestem
a szorasba. Mint 56-ban a Parlamentnel a tuntetok. Vagy ahogy
a Rozsikaban a diakgyerekek beleestek a komando-razziaba.
        A Szekelyt is kirugta parszor a hikszjozsi, panaszkodott
is a Nemzetben:
http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet/951228.html
        Most pedig, olvassuk a Forumban:
http://hix.mit.edu/cgi-bin/ekezet.html/hix/hixcore/new/1/FORUM.1920..960306?
temakor4

hogy:
(idezem)
Mindenesetre annak orulok, hogy volt es van egy "FORUM"-unk, ahol szabadon
es oszinten cserelhetjuk ki nezeteinket. Itt szeretnem megjegyezni, hogy
kaptam maganuton PYROtol egy levelet, amiben azt irja, hogy a Forumbol
kitiltottak. Annak ellenere, hogy Pyroval semmiben sem ertek egyet, megis
nagyon aggasztonak talalom, hogy valamilyen formaban is korlatozzak
valakinek a szolasszabadsagat. Tud errol valaki valamit?

Tisztelettel

Szegedy Sandor
Alexander Szegedy

(idezet bezarva)

Nos, hixjozsinal duhong a cenzura, az vilagos. De az is latszik,
hogy hixjozsi beszorult a HIX-jebe, mint Sagvari a cukraszdaba,
mert most mar magara maradt ott  egy csomo antiszemita kozott!
Hiaba, igy van ez. Ha kiuzik az erdobol az oroszlanokat, ellepi
az erdot a hienak mocska. Ugy kell a hixjozsinak.

        Itten meg vannak oroszlanok, persze vizilovak is, kameleonok,
tetvek, boduletes nagy barmok, mindenfele Isten teremtmenye -
es mind megtanulja, hogy el kell turni egymast, es a tavolsagtartast
is csak etkezeskor kell kicsit abba hagyni.

         Nekem ez a dzsungel jobban tetszik, mert termeszetesebb,
mint a "pofa be" vasketrec. Igaz, hogy az Isten hata mogotti
periferiakrol jonnek a kitiltasi kovetelesek (Nyirseg, Ausztralia,)
de azok csak magukat rohogtetik ki. Persze ha lenne a libiknek
 is majd "pofa be", nagyon kivancsian varom,hogy fognak
vinnyogni tole.

In article >,
   T. Kocsis > wrote:
>In article > Peter Szaszvari,
 writes:
>:Is there a psychiatrist reading this newsgroup?
>:I would be very interested of  the opinion of an
>:expert of this kind of things.
>
>You mean your very letter or more broadly: your contribution to
>this newsgroup ? You are a kinda borderline case I guess.  You
>won't be locked up into loony-bin if you are examined on your
>better days. Otherwise....
>
>>Seriously, there is a lot to study here!
>
>I seriously agree.
>
>Tamás
Dear Tamas,

you found me in a much better mood today than the last time when I even 
invited you to my killfile for a short time. I understood that was a mistake, 
I can't close my eyes just because I don't like what I see.

Some questions. 
Do you consider Mr. Odor healthy?
Do you think that Mr. Odor's post contained any fraction of truth?
Could you quote when I was acting ill?

Regards, SzP.



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------

In article > Peter Szaszvari,
 writes:
>The Hungarian government failed to pay(!) and it was such a shame that they 
>had to attack Soros to compensate.

AFAIK, the SF got the AVO's ex-headquater on Andrássy street for
covering the liability on gov't side. 

Tamás

In article >, Tibor Odor > wrote:
>Ivan Marinov > wrote:
>>Bocsass meg, te naci vagy?
>Szoval oregem, csak annyit tudok mondani, hogy naci a jo kurva anyad.

Oke, de mi a valasz a kerdesre?

Andris, nem eloszor hallod, hogy tulbecsulod a demokraciat
es tisztesseget melysegesen gyulolo embereket. Feluletes szem-
lelonek tenyleg ugy nez ki, mintha Elek Gabor fejlodott valamics-
ket. Eroszakkal nem fenyeget (Interneten). Mintha a sajtoszabad-
sagot is kezdene elfogadni. Valami a'l-konzervativizmust is meg-
probal magara eroltetni.

Latnod kell azonban, hogy ez a maz egy pillanat alatt lepereg,
s ott all ugyanaz, aki olyan meglepoen sokat tud a kulonbozo legma-
gasabb helyekre irogatott elkepeszto feljelento levelekrol, mintha
alaposan kivette volna reszet beloluk. Aki a szokvany cimkezese-
ket ugyanolyan felelotlenul gyakorolja, mint barmikor korabban.
Aki a regebben parjat ritkito, majdnem lirai abszurd mocsokszora-
sait (pl. hogy az emberevo Dahmer tulajdonkeppen en vagyok!),
sokkal prozaibbakra tompitotta ugyan, de semmivel sincs tobb
alapjuk. Aki a liberalis exodussal egyutt menekul ugyan az
(alattuk) sullyedo hajorol, de hebe-hoba vissza-vicsorit, harapna
egy nagyot.

Andris, igen alapos tapasztalat alapjan (ld. Forum archivum) tana-
csolhatom Neked is, masoknak is, nem szabad ezekre egy szem-
pillantas energiat pazarolni. Lehet, hogy a kommunizmus (vissza-
terte) ellen is hiabavalo az erobefektetes. Inkabb karba menjen
azonban az energia, mint pocsekba!

Pellionisz Andras

Nemregiben valaki orvendezett, hogy Sorost kitiltottak Jugoszlaviabol.
Az alabbiat a Magyar Narancs internet kiadasaban olvastam.
Nem ertem, miert orult ennek valaki, es miert szeretne ha Magyarorszagon
is kovetnek ezt a peldat? 


>Sorost kitiltott=E1k Jugoszl=E1vi=E1b=F3l A szerb Legfels=F5bb B=EDr=F3s=E1g m
=FAlt
>p=E9nteken megsz=FCntette a jugoszl=E1viai Soros Alap=EDtv=E1ny bejegyz=E9s=E9
t. 
>A kitilt=E1ssal egyen=E9rt=E9k=FB hat=E1rozat nyom=E1n megsz=FBnik sz=E1z 
>eg=E9szs=E9g=FCgyi int=E9zm=E9ny gy=F3gyszerell=E1t=E1sa, egy =F6tmilli=F3 dol
l=E1ros
>gyermekeg=E9szs=E9g=FCgyi program finansz=EDroz=E1sa, a 30 ezer menek=FClt
>=E9s csal=E1djaik t=E1mogat=E1sa, iskolai csereprogramok =E9s egyetemi 
>=F6szt=F6nd=EDjak szervez=E9se. 

-- 

Tamas GAAL

Istvan Szucs > wrote:

>Arrol nem is beszelve hogy mindez 2000
>evvel ezelott volt - ugyanannyira nem jellemzo a mai
>zsidosagra, mint az eretnek egetes, keresztes haboruk,
>boszorkany uldozes stb a mai keresztenysegre. 

OK, elhiszem, hogy ez ma nem jellemzo, de az nem egy meggyozo erv, hogy
egy tanitas mar 2000 eves.  Hiszen a vallasos tanoknak epp az a
sajatossaguk, hogy idotallok.  Legalabbis a tradicionalis vallsoknal.

>Egyetertek azzal hogy nekem sem tetszik amit a modern uzleti
>iskola csinalt - visszatetszonek tartom,
>de az alapjan amirol azota ertesultem nem tartom kirivonak
>lasd Pazmany Peter egyetem, a maga (polgari) jogi karaval.

Ez egy eros csusztatas, mivel a katolikus egyetemek polgari karainal
soha nem volt kovetelmeny a katolikus vallas.  Tuti, hogy arra a jogi
karra is jelentkezhet akarmilyen vallasu.

>emigraciot (igy) nem utaljak. Vannak az emigracionak olyan
>kepviseloi (eleg sokan, konzervativ es liberalis erzelmuek
>egyarant ) akik kioktatoan, lesajnaloan, lekezeloen 
>viselkednek. Ezeket az embereket sokan utaljak.

Persze ilyeneket en is ismerek, de en tovabbra is fenntartom azt, hogy
odahaza a nep nagy resze utal bennunket, vagy legalabbis gyanakvassal
van irantunk.  Persze nem a szemelyes ismerosokre gondolok, hanem
olyanokra, akik nem ismerik egymast.  En meg odaig is elmennek, hogy egy
atlag otthoni polgar tobb bizalommal viszonyul egy ott latogato
szuletett amerikaihoz, mint egy ott latogato magyar emigranshoz.
Errol akarmelyik emigrans meggyozodhet, ha ottani latogatasakor
nem arulja el mindjart a magyarsagat.  Csak figyeljetek a valtozast,
amint felfeditek magatokat.
>
>"Soros tehat nem emigracio?"

Ez most nem tudom hogy jon ide, de valaki, akinek annyi penze van, mint
neki, s ott tart lakast, ahol akar, gondolom ot akar nem is tekintik
emigransnak odahaza.  Soros elott Speter Erzsebetet ajnaroztak majdnem
ennyire.  Vajh miert?  
>
>Ez egy kulon vita, ezzel nem ertek egyet. Szerintem azok a
>szelsoseges csoportok tesznek kart Magyarorszagnak akik
>harciasan irrealis celokat kergetnek (peldaul Trianon), mert

De jo lett volna, ha a Romanok is igy ovakodtak volna az "irrealis
celoktol" az I. VH elott!  Abban viszont igazat adok neked, hogy
a temat ovatosan es diplomatikusan kellene kezelni.  En is hajlok arra,
hogy MO-nak elsosorban a gazdasag felviragzasara kene koncentralnia,
annyira, hogy meg a kornyezo orszagok nem-magyar polgarai szamara is
vonzoak tudjunk lenni.  A baj csak az, hogy ezt nem lehet kivarni ugy,
hogy kozben Romaniaban es Szlovakiaban eltunik a magyarsag.  Tehat jelenleg
biztositani kellene legalabb a tulelesuket, mint etnikum.  Mivel ez nem
megy, ne csodalkozz, hogy sokan nem latnak mas utat, mint Trianon
reviziojat surgetni. Vegulis a szomszed orszagok ugyanolyan rosszul
bantak a magyarjainkkal akkor is, amikor senki sem emlegette a hatarok
reviziojat.  A Funarok es Meciarok riadot fujnak fuggetlenul attol, hogy
mi mit csinalunk. 

>masreszt aki itt van olyanbol marad ki ami
>szukseges az otthoni helyzet megertesehez. Mas valamit
>hallani, elolvasni, mint benne elni. 

Azt hiszem most mar ideje lenne nem az otthoni helyzetet erteni, hanem
azt, ahova igyekeznek.  S azt mi ismerjuk jobban.

> Semmi  bajom nincs azzal ha valaki engem peldaul
>liberalisnak nevez vagy tart. Liberalbolsi mar mas, mert
>bolseivk nem vagyok, nem is voltam, sot felmenom sem volt
>az.

Akkor meg minek veszed magadra?  A liberalisokkal nekem sincs bajom, de
ma nem mindenki az, akinek annak mondja magat.  Az SZDSZes Tolgyesi pl.
liberalis, de nem liberal-bolsi.  A Peto es a korulotte levo kemeny mag
az.

>Mellekvagany, de meg mindig nem ertem hogy a liberabolsi
>mint akar jelenteni? Mindenki aki liberalis egyben bolsevik
>is lenne? Mindenki aki liberalis bolsevik osokkel
>rendelkezik? Ez a vilagon mindenhol igy van, vagy csak
>Magyarorszagon? .. rengeteg kerdes merul fel

Hadd definialjam ahogy en ertem ezt.  A liberal-bolsik azok
liberalisokka atvedlett volt bolsik.  Ezeknek is, akarcsak Horn es
tarsainak, maszopos, ill. marxista multjuk van, de a liberal-bolsik
idejeben lovat valtottak, mig a maszoposok csak reformalodtak.
Amiben nem valtoztak, az az internacionalizmus.  Bizonyos szempontbol
a maszoposok tobb tiszteletet erdemelnek, mivel tobbe-kevesbbe huek
maradtak regi idealjaikhoz, mig a szadeszba tomorult lib-bolsik
tobbnyire elvtelen opportunistak.  Nehez elfelejteni hangos
anti-kommunizmusukat 89-ben, amivel meg odaig is mentek, hogy az MDF-et
gyanusitottak kommunista-baratsaggal, hogy Pozsgait elussek a
koztarsasagi elnoki eselyeitol.  S ilyen elozmenyek utan meg volt bor a
kepukon koalicioba allni ugyanazokkal a kommunistakkal 4 evvel kesobb!
Kozben azt is bebizonyitottak, hogy az o nagydobra vert szurkeallomanyuk
sem jobb, mint az Antall kore csoportosultake, sot!  Hatalomehseg es
opportunizmus az, amiben jelesre vizsgaztak.  Az eselyek jok arra, hogy
mar csak ket evig eloskodhetnek a nep nyakan, de van egy olyan erzesem,
hogy Torgyan hatalomrajutasa esetere is mar bebiztositottak maguknak egy
paktumot, mert Torgyan is csak egy trojai falo lehet.
>
>Nem tudom, de eddig mintha azt mondta volna mindenki hogy
>Elek Gabor informaciojara privatlevelcserejerol teves
>volt. Most vagy teves volt, es akkor biztos nem betores
>utjan szerezte az informaciojat, vagy nem volt teves, demeg
>akkor sem biztos hogy betores utjan szerezte
>informacioat.

Hat hogy?  Mit gondolsz, honnan veszi azokat amiket most pl. PA-nak
"elarult"?  Ha emogott nincs egy jo alapos szimatolas, akkor pap legyek.
S meg ram nehezteltek egyesek, amikor egy volt FORUMosnak, akirol
megtudtam, hogy munkasor (szimatolas nelkul!) volt, nyilvanossagra
hoztam azt.  A tag utana ugy eltunt mint a kamfor!  Ennek ellenere azok
a bizonyos "egyesek" koveteltek, hogy aruljam el az informaciom
forrasat!  Vajon most ugyanazok miert nem szolitjak fel Eleket, hogy
bizonyitson?  Pedig PA nem is tunt el kamforkent!

>amig az emigracio hangja nem ter el szogesen az otthoni
>hangoktol. Nem allitom hogy nincsenek otthon olyanok akik az
>itteni emigracio leghangosabb tagjaival ertenenek egyet, de
>az itteni emigracio hangja abszolut nem jellemzo az otthon
>elokere.

Persze odahaza elve en sem mernek ugy beszelni, mint idekint.  Tehat ez
nem jelent semmit.

> Ha ilyen nezekulonbseg van akkor szerintem jogos
>hogy azokrol a kerdesekrol amelyek elsosorban azok eletet
>befolyasoljak akik otthon elnek azok szavazzanak akik otthon
>elnek.

Ez egy olyan "standard" szoveg, ami mar a fulemen jon ki.  Most mar csak
azt is szeretnem hallani az ezt fujoktol, hogy mit gondolnak miert nem 
velekednek igy a vilag legtobb civilizalt orszagaban?  Persze sejtem mit
valaszolnanak erre az otthoniak, mivel az is elegge megszokott mar:
"minket nem erdekel masok mit csinalnak; mi jobban tudjuk mi jo nekunk."
OK, otthoni igy gondolkozok, akkor csak assatok magatokat meg melyebbre
a godorbe, amit majd "nepek vesznek korul." :-(

>sokszor ugy gondolom hogy amig Toth Judit, es azz o
>velemenyet kepviselok jelentik az emigracio hangjat addig
>jobban is jarnank.

Az emigracio ugyanolyan megoszlott velemenyu, mint az otthoniak, bar mi
legalabb megusztuk a "letezo szocializmus" fu alatti agymosasanak
kovetkezmenyeit.
>
>56ban nem  lehetett latni hogy milyen rendszer
>kovetkezik tehat sokan - kulonosen akik a forradalomban
>resztvetek, es otthon maradtak nem biztonsagos es
>elorelathatobb otthonletet valasztottak. 

Persze tudom, hogy ez is volt.  De azert azt nem hiszem, hogy ezen
otthonmaradok nagy resze valahogy ugy dontott errol, hogy "no mi most
azertis otthon maradunk, megha konnyebb is lenne elmenekulni."  Foleg
nem azok eseteben, akik ezt utolag szeretik hangoztatni.
>
>NEzd - nem tudom mit ertesz a "ti" alatt. Az hogy sok spicli
>gazdag az bantja az emberek csoret, az enyemet is. Sajnos ez
>a kissebbik rossz volt a lehetosegek kozul. Ez a spicli most
>lehet szabadmadar, de ne hidd azt hogy a konzervativ oldalon
>nincs nagyon sok volt spicli. 

Persze az MDF is tele volt veluk.  Gondolom nagy reszuk epp mostanaban
maradt ott hoppon.  A "ti" alatt nem szuksegesen ertelek teged, s 
levelemet rajtad keresztul azoknak az otthoniaknak cimeztem, akik
hasonloan velekednek az emigraciorol.  Mivel te mindig az otthoniak
kepviselojenek tunteted fel magad, ez alkalmat ad erre a
"kiteregetesre."
>
>Eloszor is teny hogy az MDF komrany nem hozott
>meg egy sor dontest amely ugyan nagyon kellemetlen lett
>volna, de kevesbe kellemetlen mint azok amelyek meghozasara
>most kenytelen a kormany ez lehet hogy politkailag
>kifizetodo volt, de sokat art az otthon elo Magyaroknak.

Ez is alapos csusztatas szerintem. Ugyanis a vak is latja, hogy a taxis
blokad batoritalanitotta el a kormanyt a drasztikus lepesektol.
Azt pedig szerintem is a szadesz vezenyelte le.
>
>Dehogynem... kepzeld el ha ilyen foldtol elrugaszkodott
>lenne a hivatalos magyar politika? Naponta hany aszt
>kapnanak a Roman szelsosegesek?! 

Miert kell mindig nekunk lenni "erzekenynek" masok irant ha ok nem
erzekenyek irantunk?

Udv,
Pannon J.

Bodi Antalnak uzennem Nyiregyhazara hogy egyaltalan nem tamogatom a 
     felhivasat, sot tiltakozom ellene. A vitapartner elhallgattatasa (ezt 
     a regi rendszer "jol" csinalta) nem oldja meg a nemzetepites korul 
     felmerult problemakat. Ahelyett hogy szonyeg ala sepernenk a fontos, 
     neha kenyes kerdeseket, merjuk vallalni a vitat! A regi rendszer 
     gondosan kerulte e problemak felveteset, kozben "gulyas 
     kommunizmussal" etette a nepet.
     Ket ellentetes velemeny osszecsapasa eszlelheto a sokszor durva 
     vitakban, de merem remelni mindannyian szeretnenk valahogyan 
     hozzajarulni a szep kis hazank feltamadasahoz, vagy megis tevedek?   
     fodor

In article >,
Edward P. Dittmer > wrote:
| Whatever happened to Fidesz?  Are they finished as a political force?  Its 
| been such a long time since I've heard anything about them.

Their leadership did a 180% turnaround. From Liberal (in its
european sense) it became a right wing party.

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the republics of the former Soviet bloc, please visit the homepage of the 
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republics. The Group has been publishing reports on these republics since 
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The BHHRG is a registered UK charity and relies for its work entirely on 
volunteers. All proceeds from the sale of its reports will be used to 
fund its activities in Central and Eastern Europe and former Soviet Asia.

In article >, Bodi Antal  > wrote:
>
>Tiltakozasomat fejezem ki Judith Toth altal a magyarsag ellen elkovetett 
>bomlaszto, nemzetrombolo tevekenyseg ellen. Tiltakozasomat eljuttatom az
>Infobahn elnokenek es arra kerek mindenkit, hogy csatlakozzon peldamhoz.

Gondolom szepen ki is fognak rohogni ott erte, ugyanis egy ilyen
szolgaltato ceg valoszinuleg kalapszamra kap ilyen leveleket naponta
hozzad hasonlo tullihegoktol.

Neked is csak azt irhatom, amit a Fischer Bozsinek, hogy nem artana
idezeteket is mellekelni ha valakit gyanusitgatunk.  Ugyanis en nem
emlekszem semmi olyasmira Judit cikkeiben, megha olyan kemenyek is
voltak.

Egyebkent borzasztoan csalodtam benned, Toni, az elso, OTTlapodat
propagalo cikkeid ota.  Ez a fajta "feljelentgetes" a regi, ugybuzgo
KISZ titkarok stilusara emlekeztet.  Ezt a stilust errefele nem nagyon
dijazzak, s csak magadat teszed nevetsegesse vele.  Azonkivul ezt a
fajta tullihegest maguk a zsidok sem ertekelik, ha igazat lehet adni
Rafael Seligman urnak, aki a budapesti Goethe Intezetben adott
interjujaban allitolag a kovetkezoket mondta:
"Az antiszemitaknal csak a filoszemitakat szeretem kevesbbe.  Minden
alkalmat megragadnak, hogy fejet hajtsanak a Holocaust aldozatai elott.
Egyreszt gyanakszom az oszintesegukben, masreszt valamilyen szubjektiv
okbol lettek zsidobaratta, mint ahogy az esetlegesseg apjukat naciva
tehette, s tartani lehet attol, hogy gyermekuk vilagnezetet is csupan
'a veletlen alakitja'".

Gondolom Seligman nyugodtan belevehette volna a bolsi papakat is.
Persze ezt most csak tanulsagkepp irtam le, nem azert, hogy azt
szemelyesen is magadra vedd.

Udvozlettel,
Pannon Jozsi

Come on where is your patriotism? (smile). 

Next you'll be saying that the Czar of fast food, George F. Hemingway, is
a communist. Soros is no angel, but there is nothing to support claims
that he's any more a racist or extremist than anyone else. 

=G=

   
   ps: The czar if fast food is not a monarchist either <g>

In article >,
   T. Kocsis > wrote:
>In article > Peter Szaszvari,
 writes:
>>Do you think that Mr. Odor's post contained any fraction of truth?
>
>Yes. An it containes large mistakes. I personally noticed one at first
>glance. (The government subsidiaries for the SF was badly misinter-
>preted.)

I think it was rather a lie not a mistake or misinterpretation. As I 
remembered once the (Antall) government had the idea to take more out of 
Soros. So they made a contract with him where they offered to double the money 
if Soros increases the value to a certain limit. They also wanted to take more 
control of the SF.
The Hungarian government failed to pay(!) and it was such a shame that they 
had to attack Soros to compensate.
The contract was cancelled after one year. I am not sure that the government 
pays even a cent to the SF today.

>You acted this time more ill than Mr. Odor because he wrote stuff
>that could have been easily refuted. I considered his letter a high
>ball and was waiting for the devastating answer from someone.
>
You are right.

>Tamas



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------

In article > ,
 writes:
   "Itt szeretnem megjegyezni, hogy
    kaptam maganuton PYROtol egy levelet, amiben azt irja, hogy a Forumbol
    kitiltottak. Annak ellenere, hogy Pyroval semmiben sem ertek egyet,
megis
    nagyon aggasztonak talalom, hogy valamilyen formaban is korlatozzak
    valakinek a szolasszabadsagat. Tud errol valaki valamit?"

>Nos, hixjozsinal duhong a cenzura, az vilagos. De az is latszik,
>hogy hixjozsi beszorult a HIX-jebe, mint Sagvari a cukraszdaba,
>mert most mar magara maradt ott  egy csomo antiszemita kozott!
>Hiaba, igy van ez. Ha kiuzik az erdobol az oroszlanokat, ellepi
>az erdot a hienak mocska. Ugy kell a hixjozsinak.

Kedves Andras !

Pyrot nem a HIX Jozsi tiltotta ki, hanem a fonoke, aki nem vette
jo neven, hogy government cimrol egy politikai forumba ir.

Tamas

In article > Ivan Marinov, int0108
writes:
> a 24 orat is. [...]  Bar en [..] lapot 
>inkabb nemzeti-bolseviknek es nem jobboldalinak tekintem.

A 24. ora inkabb egy erosen antiszemita fasisztoid bulvarlap, ha mar
kategorizalgatunk. :-) :-)

TAmas

In article > Peter Szaszvari,
 writes:
>Some questions. 
>Do you consider Mr. Odor healthy ?

I am not a physician

>Do you think that Mr. Odor's post contained any fraction of truth?

Yes. An it containes large mistakes. I personally noticed one at first
glance. (The government subsidiaries for the SF was badly misinter-
preted.)

>Could you quote when I was acting ill ?

You acted this time more ill than Mr. Odor because he wrote stuff
that could have been easily refuted. I considered his letter a high
ball and was waiting for the devastating answer from someone.

Tamas

On 5 Mar 1996, Istvan Szucs wrote:

> Is when you agree with some Hungarians and not others an
> example of being anti-Hungarian?

 It is - to those who are defining TruHungarians here ;-<...

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the 
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!

KC2: Dudley+ (Grubor+)*2 (Fomin+++)/3 (cjames++)*3 
     Iatskovski- (Petersen--)/2

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

In article >, Tibor Odor > wrote:
>Dear Netters,
>
[cut]

Is there a psychiatrist reading this newsgroup? I would be very interested of 
the opinion of an expert of this kind of things.
Seriously, there is a lot to study here!



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------

Tibor Odor writes on the alleged "wrongdoings" of George Soros:

>1. Soros  very negative role under the Blocad of Taxi Drivers.
>   His anti-hungarian views were disclosed in the Hungarian TV
>   in an interview with him. He said very controversial things
>   about hungarianness and the National Anathem which hurt the
>   vast majority of the Nation on either side of the Blocad.

Exactly what did Mr. Soros say, and when did he say it? Why was it
construed to be anti-Hungarian? By the way, is there freedom of speech
in Hungary, or is speech only free if it agrees with someone's political
ideology?

>2. He supports journals and newspapers, Magyar Narancs, Beszelo and other
>   garbages which otherwise cannot survive on the market.

How one spends one's own resources should be up to one's predilections.
Isn't there freedom of press in Hungary?

>2'. He supports HIX. :-)

That is his priviledge.

>3. He supports people and views which are extremely harmful for the
>   society. For example he strongly supports the idea of free distribution
>   of hard drugs (not only marijuana, but LSDand maybe cocain).
>   He supports abortion too.

Who decides what is harmful or beneficial for society? Opinions can differ.
Can you support his statement on drugs? Again, a lot of people support the
notion of free accessibility of drugs. For example, the mayor of Baltimore,
an African-American, and who was handsomely reelected recently, also
supports the decriminalization of drugs. Nobody suggests that he is
guilty of anything, except maybe common sense, for voicing his opinion.

>4. He is completely against the Hungarian nation. He hates everything
>   which is made or done by ethnic hungarians. (Remember for the Anathem
>   issue.)He supports the enemies
>   of the nation. (He gave money to Corneliu Vadim Tudor and his daughter,
>   and as far as I know he gave money to Gheorghiu Funar too.)

Can you substantiate these opinions? When did he give money to Funar and
company? Considering the attacks on Soros by the Romanians, this sounds
rather implausible. 

>   He supports fomer members of the AVH. His closest

Who are these AVH members?

>6. The National Debt is his favorite issue. He wanted to buy the Hungarian
>   National Debt and using his influence he wanted to introduce an "open"
>   political
>   system. The "extremist" and "racist" Jozsef Antall disclosed these facts.
>   Now he wants something, which seems to be even worst than his original
>   ideas.

What did Jozsef Antall disclose, and where and when did he disclose it?
An open society is something that most civilized people try to achieve.

>7. He tried to undermine the Hungarian bank system trying to occupy
>   OTP (the largest and most important bank in Hungary) by a plot.
>   (OTP is under moderate, not anti-hungarian communist rule. It is very
>   painful for the liberal anti-hungarian extremists who are the best
>   friends of Soros.)

How did he try to occupy OTP? Who are these "anti-Hungarian" extremists?


>As I suggested in my previous mail on this issue, (Subject: Answer to
>the open letter of Csaba Zoltani) it is possible that a jury do not
>find these facts completely provable by its standards. But in politics
>I think it is enough that they are not refutable. We cannot prove
>everything without doubt, because using a complicated strategy one can
>generate so complicated cases which is not possible to uncover in 100 years
>while we do not have 100 days to take the anaviodable actions.

I'm afraid, Dr. Odor, until and unless you supply the facts to back up
your speculations, you do not have a case. What you have cited are at best 
anecdotal. In a way that is regretable. Diversity of opinion based on hard
facts contributes to the enlightenment of all. I will close with a small
section of an essay which recently appeared on the Op-Ed page of the NYT
written by Misha Glenny under the heading "The Price of Peace in Bosnia."

"...The latest manifestation of this deal with the devils has been the
disgraceful ruling by Serbia's Supreme Court to allow the Government
to shut down the Soros Yugoslavia Foundation in Belgrade. The court cited
a legal technicality, but this cannot disguise the cynical political
maneuvering of the Serbian President, Slobodan Milosevic, who is behind the
closure.

The foundation has performed heroic work under exceptionally difficult
conditions. Above all, it has alleviated the suffering of Serb, Muslim,
Hungarian and Albanian citizens, many of them refugees, through its
humanitarian work. These people will be the principle victims of the
court's decision, and considerable pressure should be applied on the
Serbian Government to reverse it.

...."

CSABA K ZOLTANI

In article >,  ()
wrote:

> > wrote:

oh what the hell, *one* response won't kill me... :-)


> It's common practice on Internet to include quotes from the text one is
> commenting on.  Especially when one accuses somebody with spreading
> hate propoganda.  It's rather instructive how such quotes are missing 
> in this case.  It's obvious why; because there was none.  All I remember
> reading from Judit was pointing out that Jews were not only victims in
> Hungary in the last 80 years or so, but took more than their share in
> communist attrocities as well.

wow gee... now that is what i call selective memory. i myself remember
something a tad more... ahm, *pungent*

>  I submit this is neither hate propoganda, 
> nor anti-semitism.  

submission rejected for reasons of wilfull ignorance. 

<sigh> when i included your name in my (somewhat) angry commentary i
actually had a few pangs. i didnot think you quite on the *level* of the
fabulous madame toth. but hell, okay, since you insist. you do not
consider that racist propaganda??? you mean you personally know of worse? 

truly the stomach turns

 ,  If you really want to see some consistent hate
> propoganda, you ought to visit the soc.culture.polish news group where
> the most common thread titles are like: "Why do Jews hate Poland so
> much?", or "Why is there so much anti-Polonism?"  It takes only a
> cursury reading there to figure out who spreads the hate propoganda.

i know nothing of the situation there, consequently i cannot draw such
facile conclusions.

and joe, man, i know this will upset your conception of reality, but you
know, i *have* no particular agenda. though i will admit to a smidgen of
an anti-racist stance, on occassion that is, when the occassion demands
it.

other than that, hey! i am hungarian. so hungarians interest me. it is one
interest among many others, however.

> The same is the case in this news group, though in much lesser degree.
> Throwing around labels, like "anti-semitism" is getting to be a bit
> warn out, especially in this election season when even one of the major
> Republican candidates is branded with it.  It's laughable!

well gee, joe, then why aren't we laughing? you are not laughing, i am not
laughing, no one is laughing. pretty shitty joke, ain't it then.


> Get a life, Elizabeth & Co.!

have one, like it. preferable to some proffered herein. but thanks for the
encouragement.

you know joe, you really should lay off me. i'm funnier, i'm smarter, and
i can tear you to little pieces. :-)

loudness doesn't count.

regards
ef

-- 
NWHQ
http://www.knosso.com/NWHQ/

[deleted]

I second the motion, dumb-da-dumb-da . . . . .

>
>you know joe, you really should lay off me. i'm funnier, i'm smarter, and
>i can tear you to little pieces. :-)
>
>loudness doesn't count.
>
>regards
>ef
>
>-- 
>NWHQ
>http://www.knosso.com/NWHQ/

> The Hungarian government failed to pay(!) and it was such a shame that they 
> had to attack Soros to compensate.
 While this seemed to play a role in it, it was also part of the overall 
shifting to the extreme right by Antall's party toward its Csurka wing, 
which had been attacking Soros from the beginning.

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the 
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!

KC2: Dudley+ (Grubor+)*2 (Fomin+++)/3 (cjames++)*3 
     Iatskovski- (Petersen--)/2

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
| In article > Peter Szaszvari,
|  writes:
| >The Hungarian government failed to pay(!) and it was such a shame that they 
| >had to attack Soros to compensate.
| 
| AFAIK, the SF got the AVO's ex-headquater on Andrássy street for
| covering the liability on gov't side. 
| 
| Tamás

I would be surprised. That building was and as far as I know
is inhabited by an import export company.

I have traveled to Europe, but unfortunately not Magyar. It would
  be great to make friends from there, and learn more about its
  culture and customs. So if anyone reading this can understand
  some english, and feel like corresponding please e-mail to me
  at .

  Vinny (a.k.a. Cosworth)
  P.S. The Hungaroring is one of my favorite F-1 circuits.

In article > Istvan Szucs,
 writes:
>I would be surprised.

I was surprised when I see it. Couple of months ago there was a
program on ZDF I think, about Soros, and they have shown the buil-
ding which became the headquater of the Centra Europian Uni-
versity. They made a very impressive work on the inside, it
looked rather like a rich foreign bank than a University.

>That building was and as far as I know
>is inhabited by an import export company.

Tamas

I'll be travelling to Budapest at the end of March.  Are the any shops, 
cafe's or bookstores that are gay friendly?  How should one go about 
looking for a room?  Are private rooms still cheaper than hotels?  E-mail 
please.

Koszonom!

--
  Public Access User -- Not affiliated with Teleport
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-28800, N81)

Enhavo de EVENTOJ, numero 2/februaro '96
 ****************************************

 Pag^o 1.
 --------

 - OSMO BULLER: MI VOLAS KRESKKIGI C^ION!

    Ekde  1-a  de  januaro  Osmo Buller ig^is G^enerala Direktoro de Centra
    Oficejo  de  UEA, anstatau Simo Milojevic^. Intervjuitaj demandoj pri la
    funckciado   de   CO   (kvanto  de  laborantoj,  direktoroj),  raumismo,
    lapenismo, statistikaj^oj...

 Pag^oj 1-2.
 -----------

 - INTERNET ESTAS ELTROVITA KVAZAU POR ESPERANTISTOJ!
    Daurigo de la klarigo pri Internet. Respondo al 9 oftaj demandoj.

 - Abonhelpa fonduso
    Dankesprimo kaj listo de subtenantoj

 Pag^o 3.  FAKA APLIKADO
 -----------------------

 Ergane anstatau Athena
    Aperis  la  multlingva  Windows vortaro kun la nomo Ergane, (antaua nomo
    estis Athena), kaj estas transs^utebla per TTT!

 Esperanto kiel varnomo
    En Usono 2 firmaoj uzas la nomon Esperanto por siaj traduk-programoj...

 E-lingvaj pos^tostampiloj
    En  C^inio  estas  emisiitaj  3 serioj da pos^tmarkoj, kaj en la emisiaj
    tagoj estis uzata E-lingva reklam-stampilo!

 Ne s^okaj, sed s^akaj informoj
    Esperanta S^ak-Ligo Internacia planas turniron en Prago, paralele al UK.
    Estas havebla ankau la faka bulteno de ES^LI!

 Havu vian sidejon en Francio
    Ankau  en  Internet  estas  konsultenla  la  listo  de akireblaj ejoj en
    Colmar, Francio - uzante la Internacian Lingvon!

 Scienca Revuo - vol. 46.
    Kiaj artikoloj trovig^as en la volumo 46 de Scienca Revuo?

 Medicina Terminaro
   UMEA (Medicinista E-Asocio) eldonis anglan-Esperantan vortaron kun pli ol
   9000 terminoj, kompilita de Saburo Yamazoe!

 Pag^o 4, ARANG^OJ
 -----------------

 - Pli detalaj informoj pri kelkaj arang^oj
   - 1-a Hansa E-Tago en Germanio, aprile,
   - IJF en Italio, aprile - per TTT!
   - Naturista familia tendaro en julio, Germanio
   - Medicina E-Konferenco, julio, Hungario
   - Somera E-kursaro en Usono
   - Nacia E-kunveno en Venezuelo, en junio

 - Plena listo de E-arang^oj en aprilo!

 Pag^o 5. MOVADAJ AFEROJ
 -----------------------

 - Novaj^oj pri la UK!
 - Esperanto en lerneja foiro - en Germanio!
 - Trezoro en Hispanio
   Informoj pri la Hispana E-muzeo.
 - Eksigo el la INOE-estraro.
   La estraro de INOE (Naturista E-Asocio) eksigis sian membron...
 - Finita  eksperimento (3 landoj 4 elementaj lernejoj) pri la propedeutika
   valoro de E-instruado.
 - Kiel veturi al Rusio?
   Praktikaj  informoj,  necesaj  por  enveturi al Rusio. (Someraj arang^oj,
   SAT-kongreso, ktp)
 - Konferenco de C^EA
 - Nova reklamilo de TEJO
 - Intensiv-kurso en Germanio

 Pag^o 6.
 --------

 HISTORIO: Mi havas trezorojn... de Will Green
 ILEI    : Comenius-projekto: Kolektiva korespondado
 REVUOJ  : PACO - ne plu
 REAGOJ  : Euro au Euroo?

 Pag^o - 7.
 ----------
 NOTLIBRO: Kelkaj interesaj E-rilataj TTT-pag^oj
 ALVOKO  : Helpu per viaj leteroj al brazilianoj!
 KULTURO : Ni lernu vivi sen fino!
           Impresoj de Ionel Onet en Polio
 OPINIOJ : Informado ege gravas!
 MUZIKO  : S^paru 18 % per antaumendo al Vinilkosmo - 2!
 MENCIAS : Bazaj informoj pri kelkaj ricevitaj libroj, eldonaj^oj.

 Pag^o 8.
 --------

 ANONCETOJ: 6 senpagaj anoncetoj
 KORESPONDI DEZ: 3 adresoj
 INTERESE : - Ni sukcesis fari tion...
            - Kie estas la limo?
            - C^u vi estas perfekte (mal)juna?
 HUMURO   : C^e kuracisto...


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