Eva:
>Read, for example Gabor Paller's piece in today's Szalon about that 17% of
>the population considers 1956 a counterrevolution. Read most of the letters
>to the Forum about foreign capitalists, who seem to be the cause of all our
>miseries. These horrible ideological baggages from the left as well as from
>the right are still with us and only God knows when we get rid of them if at
>all.

Oh, you don't get an argument from me about that!  However, I think we
are talking about two different animals when comapring the '50s and the
late Kadar regime.  I think the latter's brainwashing was far more
insiduous than the former and that's why the latter was so much more
successful.   And that's why I can't imagine another '56 with the
current generation.

Joe Pannon

>Once you are prosecuted,hung,and forced into labour camp,you do not forget
>so fast.

Yes, I think it was also high on the minds of Hungarian revolutionaries
in '56.

>The very moment I heard in 56 it is the Jews fault we have communism,that
>was the raliing cry for me to lieve.

So, am I to assume then that you fled Hungary before November 4th of '56?

>The reditribution of punishment was stoped only since the rotten Szoviet
>army crushed this freedom fight.

Were you relieved by that, Andy?

>In case you are interested further in my life I will be glad to reply in
>private letter.

Thanks, but no thanks.  I rather not start parallel threads due to time
constraints.

Joe Pannon

Before I forget, let me tell Andy what I was told once by a known
Internet "guru": it's generally considered "idiotic" to include
participants' name in the subject of the thread.  I think he meant
INITIATING such subject headers, not re-using them.  Besides, I don't
even get what was Andy's point using my name as the subject; it wasn't
about me, even if he addressed it to me.

Having that off my chest, let me reflect also to Prof. Hidas' article
in this thread.  Indeed, there are probably more anti-semitic comments
made on a single Farrakhan rally, than during the entire '56 revolution.
This is quite remarkable, considering the high visibility of Jews in the
post-WW II communist leadership and terror apparatus.

As for today, there are more extremists in the Israeli Knesset than in
the Hungarian Parliament.

Joe Pannon

Barna Bozoki wrote:

>The message of the piece is that there in no definitive work in English
>about the the 1956 Revolution. He is looking for the type of work like "The
>Politics of Genocide: The Hungarian Holocaust", Columbia University Press,
>by Randolph Braham. He concludes: "Otherwise, a key to our historical
>heritage may rest in the hands of Revisionists, a movement that tried to
>discolor the historical facts of 1944. One feels the craving for the
>demythologized truth."

Thank you for the info, I'll look it up though it's pretty evident
to me already that P-O is objecting to anything being discussed that might
distract attention from the Holocaust.  Especially events that might
show Hungarians in good light since he obviously considers them all
guilty in that Holocaust.  And then he goes and writes books about it.

Oh, and did I read it right?  He is also a psychologist?

Joe Pannon

NOTE: This is the 10th segment of a memoir of the Hungarian Revolution, which
consists of 15 such daily segments. My goal is to pay tribute to the memories
of two of the martyrs of 1956: Istvan Angyal and Janos Danner. If at the end
of this series, you would like me to send you the complete text (330,000
bits,) please let me know. I will also be happy to place this material into
any archive, if one desies it.
    I do apologize about the spelling of Hungarian words: I had to make a
choice in this respect and selected to correctly all the Hungarian accent
marks in the hard printed copies. As a consequence, it seems that the quality
of the electronically transmitted text suffered and the accented vowels are
deleted by  and some are converted by . I hope that in
spite of that, the manuscript is legible.

Best regards: Be'la Lipt'ak

The poem below, was the last poem written by Attila Girecz, before he died on
the bloody streets of Budapest in 1956. I am not capable to convey the mood,
the confidence, the optimism, which the poem radiates, so I will not even
attempt to translate it. It speaks of a mountain climber, who lacks
everything that is needed to get to the top, except one: determination. Yet
he knows, that he will make it. I felt that this poem best describes the
unconquerable spirit of Jancsi Danner, who even in his death, knew, that
tanks can not crush ideals and that we will be victorious:

I'gy bocskorosan, ugye megnevettek,
Hogy  ma'rva'nyt  to rni hegynek indulok.
Sza'mon  Pimasz mosolyga's  a jelszo',
Fu ttyo m  csibe'szes, - e'n is feljutok.

Nincs  to mo tt zsa'kom, hegyma'szo'  botom.
Segi'to   kezet ta'n  egy  ta'rs  sem ad,
De vihart oldo'  de'li  sze'l-ko lyo k
Borzol fejemre la'gy barackokat.

S a hegyteto n  majd minden mezt lehantva
E'n  is kacagva sze'lnek  o lto zo k,
Karjukra  fu znek majd a  fe'ny-nyalabok
S elta'ncolunk a fejetek  fo lo tt.


        X
It is around midnight, the streets are dark, deserted, the echo of my
footsteps is reverberating in the night. I feel a bit scared, a bit forlorn
and very, very tired. The couple of miles which I have to walk seem like
eternity. When I finally get to the hospital, it is dark, the door is locked.
It takes some 10-20 minutes and a lot of banging, before they let me in. On
my way back to the university, it must be around 1 AM, when I get back on
Bartsk Street.
      I move like a sleep-walker. My legs are hurting from climbing a million
stairs at AVH headquarters. I am faint from hunger. I don't even remember
when I ate last. Drinking, I do remember, because I did taste the French
cognac while researching the porno magazines in the AVH office, but it did
not clench my thirst, and it's taste wasn't to my liking either. The
submachine-gun is pulling on my shoulder, my legs are weak, rubbery,
everything is quiet and dark.
      Now I hear some shots in the night. The sound comes from the Pest side
of Freedom Bridge. I am approaching Saint Gellirt Square, which is on the
Buda side of the bridge. Suddenly, I am wide awake. Now I can hear the
approach of racing automobiles. Two cars are tearing over the bridge, the
first is small and grey, the second is large and black.
       As the first gets off the bridge and turns left, its right wheels lift
off the pavement from its speed. There are four people in the car. At this
instance I realize that it is our Skoda, Imre Majoross is at the wheel,
Jancsi Danner is sitting next to him. Now, new shots ring out. I see the
backfire of the submachine-guns. The fire is coming from the windows of the
second car. It is a big, black, Russian made Pobjeda, used by high party
officials. The blasts are deafening. I hear the whistle of the bullets, they
seem to pass next to my ear.
       I am startled, frozen with fear, yet in my mind's memory this split
second picture is permanently retained: Imre is leaning forward onto the
wheel, Jancsi in sitting up straight, the submachine-gun is on his shoulder,
he didn't even bother to take it off. The people on the back seat are bending
forward, they have leaned down as low as possible. The Pobjeda is driven by a
uniformed blond women. There are two AVH officers in the car. One is sitting
in the front passenger's seat, the other in the back seat. They are both
firing through their open windows, from the right side of the car. The Skoda
is racing down on the embarkment of the Danube toward the main entrance of
the university, the Pobjeda is right behind. I see the two cars for only a
second, then they disappear behind the Chemis try Building.
     For a few seconds, I can not move. I am paralysed by fear, when I hear
the firing once more. It is coming from the direction of the main entrance
and therefore I start running in that direction. While I am running, I know
what to do: I am looking at the ground to make sure that I don't fall. I turn
right after the Chemistry building. The main entrance is about 200, possibly
300 yards from me. I can cover that distance in about 20 or 30 seconds. In an
unconscious act, I take off the submachine-gun from my shoulder. I have no
idea what I will do next, yet I am running as fast as I can, aiming forward
the gun in my hands.
      As I approach the entrance, the darkness clears a bit, I see more and
more. The Skoda has turned over onto it's right side. Jancsi is below, Imre
is on top of him. Imre is climbing out through the left door, which has now
become a door on the top. Jancsi does not move. The Pobjeda has left, it is
racing down, toward Pet fi bridge. I hear a dripping sound and some moaning
from the Skoda, so I run toward the disabled car. As I do I hear a car
coming. As I look up, I see that the Pobjeda has turned around at the bridge
and  is racing back toward the entrance.
     I jump behind the trunk of a chestnut tree. The Pobjeda stops, the AVH
officers jump out and spray the Skoda with more bullets. Their faces are
illuminates by the flash of the backfire of their guns. They are so close
that I can see the whites of their eyes. Now I lift my submachine-gun, I rest
the muzzle on the tree trunk, I aim and then I try to pull the trigger, but I
can't! I don't know what is happening? All I know is that they are firing at
the Skoda and I could stop that, I could save Jancsi's life, yet I can't pull
the damn trigger. I check the safety latch, but it is open.
      It is something else, it is something in me, some hateful, ugly
weakness, that makes me incapable to protect my friend, to stop these
animals. It is a frightfully terrible moment, a moment when you learn
something about yourself, that you will hate for the rest of your life,
something that will keep you awake for decades, something that you will be
able to correct only in those glorious dreams, in which you act like a man,
in which you do what any decent human being should do, in the dreams from
which you wake drenched in sweat and cold from the realization, that it was
only a dream, that the  moment, when you should have pulled that trigger has
passed and will never return.
      Now the assassins notice me and like a spring hale, the bullets start
falling in front of me and all around the chestnut tree. I can see little
dust puffs as the bullets hit the ground. I am filled with terror, I am not
thinking at all, I am only an observer watching the actions of my own body,
as it flies over the six foot iron fence of the university, boots, gun and
all, and land on the other side, behind the brick base of the fence. I peak
out over the low brick wall and see that the uniformed murderers are now
throwing hand grenades at the entrance. Each time one pulls out the safety
latch of his grenade, the ignitor light illuminates his face from below. I
see this hate distorted face, and it seems, that this is not the face of an
AVH officer, but Satan's own.
        Finally, the Pobjeda leaves. I am still trembling behind the wall,
the thousands of students are beginning to wake up, I begin to see some
lights in the windows, then I hear a tremendous, rumbling noise. It sounds as
if a thousand garbage cans were rolling toward me. As I climb over the fence,
I see that tanks are coming from the direction of the Chemis try Building.
The road itself is shaking from their thunder. An officer is walking in front
of the tanks. Now he starts screaming at the top of his lungs:  Stop or I'll
fire to kill!  I have no idea whom he is yelling at, but I am relieved,
because the hollering is in Hungarian. These are our own tanks! Now I hear
footsteps running toward me, two soldiers grab me from the two sides and I am
under arrest.
       A few minutes later they realize who I am and let me go. The soldiers
surround the Skoda, I don't want to see it. I deliver the tranquilizers to
Pista. His office door is open now, he is awake and is writing something.
When I hand him the sedatives, he gives me a long look and says:  They were
after me! Pista died because of me!  I say nothing, but know, that Pista
died, because of my inability to kill.
        As he hands me the order to bring in the blood from Wienna, his eyes
are bloodshot, his hands are trembling. Kati Sz ke is trying to make him take
some sedatives, when I leave to say farewell to Jancsi.
       Jancsi Danner's face is calm, serene. The inescapable moment, which he
talked about,  the inevitable moment of all heroes , has arrived. This tall
and blond German- Hungarian from Szeged, has played his role well. His blue
eyes are now closed. He will not go, on any more patrols. His act is over,
but the play has to go on. Gabi, his bride, does not know yet. She can not
see him like this! Jancsi's body is a mess. We count 27 bullet holes in it.
According to Imre Majoross, the driver, the Pobjeda followed them all the way
from the Ministry of Defense, where the meeting took place.
      We have to build a bier for him. It was around seven in the morning, on
this Friday, the second of November, when we moved a conference table into
the middle of the aula, where all this started. It was here, where I first
heard Jancsi's voice, when he demanded, that the MEFESZ delegate from Szeged
be allowed to speak. That moment I will never forget. I remember our scared
and deadly silence, I remember the paralysis of our souls, I remember the
arrogance of the penguins with their red neckties and I remember the lonely
voice, which changed it all, the trembling voice which dared to say:  Let him
speak!
        Jancsi's 6'-8  body is already stiff, yet I have not accepted, I
could not accept, that he is gone. Gyurka and Imre are lifting him at the
shoulders, Sandor Varga and I are lifting his feet. As we are carrying the
body, his size 13, tattered shoe slips off. I try to put it back, but the
foot is stiff, it does not allow me to put back the shoe. Now my denial is
shaken, now I am beginning to see that Jancsi is truly dead.
       I make a bewildered, delirious effort to put the shoe back on his
feet. I am convinced, that, if I can do that, somehow everything else will
fall in place. If I could only put his shoe back, everything else could still
be fixed. If I could put it back, his body would not be so stiff, he could
still be alive, he could still tell us the outcome of the meeting, and most
importantly, he could still tell us, that there is hope, that it is not over.
But the foot was too stiff, the shoe could not be returned and under the
enormous Hungarian flag, which covered the whole bier, Jancsi's shoe-less
foot was covered only by his torn socks.
       I must be shaking, because Gyurka brings the black officer's raincoat,
which I left in the MEFESZ office and makes me to put it on. I must also look
dazed, because he shakes me and asks in a loud and slow way:  Have you got
the or-ders?  When I nod, he puts his arm over my shoulder and takes me to
the truck.
      It is Friday, there is no AVH anymore, the Russian tanks are gone, the
national strike is over, people are sweeping the streets, filling the bullet
holes, replacing the broken glass in the windows, getting ready for the
normal life, that will start on Monday. Armed freedom fighters are patrolling
the streets, they are helping to distribute the food, brought by the lorries
and trucks of the villagers. The streets of the liberated capital are flooded
with newspapers. These are the first signs, of an emerging free press, the
first swallows of freedom and democracy. It is hard for me to be happy, but
deep down I know, that Jancsi did not die in vain, that part of this
happiness, part of this peace, is his creation, his legacy.
       This big bear, Gyurka, does his best to cheer me up. First, he turns
on the radio, which reports, that the Soviets have agreed to remove all their
troops from Hungary and because of that, the Security Council of the United
Nations has decided to delay their discussion of the Hungarian situation
until Monday, the 5th of November.  You see: things are fine, the Russians
are leaving!  - he says. When I stay mute, - an unusual state in my case, -
he changes the subject. He tells me, that he could not fire at a human being
either, and also, that 90% of all soldiers, fire only into the air. The more
he talks, the more I know, that, if Gyurka was in my place, today Jancsi
would be alive, and the murderous career of the AVH renegades would be over.
Eventually, he just lets me be, and suggests, that I read the  Agent Albums ,
which I took from AVH headquarters.
      I do what he tells me. I start looking at the photographs of the AVH
informers of Budapest. The names in this volume go from C to F and the volume
must contain some 2- 300 photographs. Under each photo, there is the usual
personal data,  followed by a listing of the useable methods of blackmailing
and of information, which the spy has already provided. There is an
underlined entry in a few cases, saying:  Willing to give false witness.
 Some are homosexuals others members of the previous ruling class, but there
are also alcoholics, gamblers, ex-nazis and a surprisingly large number of
scared and weak people, who have nothing to hide. I quickly read all the
names, and to my great relief, find no friend or relative in the volume.
Afterwards, I feel ashamed, that I thought it possible, that I might.
        While I am reading, we are also listening to Radio Free Europe. We
learn that Imre Nagy has fired Peter Koss (who's real name is Leo
Konduktorov, a KGB officer) as Hungary's UN representative, but he refused to
leave. Imre Nagy has also asked the UN, and the leaders of the four great
powers, to guarantee Hungary's neutrality. Gyurka is very happy to hear that.
 This was the formula, which the UN used to defend South Korea. This is our
only security blanket against a new Soviet attack and a good one too  - says
Gyurka. He has barely finished the sentence, when we see Russian tanks
blocking the road in front of us.
       We are still within the city limits of Budapest. Other than our truck,
there is no traffic on the road. The warm, quilted jacket, worn by the
Russian soldiers is called a  pufajka.  The Hungarian AVH officers and other
renegades, who have sided with the enemy, were all issued pufajkas by the
Russians. These people we refer to as the  Pufajkas.  One of these quislings
is studying my orders to bring blood from Wienna. He slowly reads every word
of it, including the imprints of the stamps and when he sees that the chief
of police, Sandor Kopacsi has also authorized our trip, he lets us through,
saying:  Yours is the first truck I am letting through, but they might turn
you around at the next roadblock in Budavrs.  I take the paper back, but do
not reply. I just can not bring myself to talk to a turncoat like that. I can
not even conceive, how he can look at himself in a mirror?
        At Budavrs, there is an other roadblock. In every direction I look,
there are Russian tanks. The subservient Pufajkas, are tagging behind the
Russians like tailless dogs. As they are checking our travel permit, the
Pufajka in charge gives a subservient smile and tries to make conversation
with a Russian tank commander as he walks by. The Russian spits on the ground
and does not reply. He is an older man, he might just remember the Russian
traitors who worked for Hitler during World War Two.
      I hate these skunks so much, that I even forget to be worried. Gyurka
does not. When they finally let us through, I notice, that one cigarette is
burning in his mouth, while he is taking out an other one and is searching
for his matches. I guess, this was the first time I smiled on that Friday.
       We are around Tatabanya, when we see a bus approaching from the
opposite direction. It stops, they want to talk with us. A delegation from Gy
r is on the bus, they are going to Budapest to meet with Imre Nagy. Gy r is
the center of the trans-Danubian region, its revolutionary council is in
control from here to the Austrian border. The delegates did not know, that
Budapest is surrounded by a double circle of tanks and that they have to pass
through these roadblocks. After a short debate, they decide to go ahead
anyway.
       As we reach the outskirts of Gy r, we come across an other roadblock.
This one is manned by Hungarian freedom fighters. When they see my
tri-colored arm-band, National Guard certificate and our travel documents,
which signed by both Police Chief Kopacsi and Colonel Marian, they get very
interested. We must be the first people they see from Budapest. They want to
know everything, that has happened in the capital. They want to know what we
think, what we heard, it is not easy to leave them.  You must see our leader:
the president of the Transdanubian National Council, Attila Szigethy!  - says
one of them and offers to guid us to  City Hall.
      It is around noon. There is a lot of traffic in the street leading to
City Hall. I see a number of foreign license plates. On our way to meet
Attila Szigethy, we walk through crowded corridors, we meet some crews of
western reporters, and we see a lot of tumult and confusion. In Szigethy's
office the people look tired and unshaved. The conference table is full of
empty coffee cups and with overflowing ashtrays.
      There is no question about who is in charge here, it is self-evident
who Attila Szigethy is. He is like Colonel Marian, in so far that he is
surrounded by a revolving circle of delegates, messengers and assistants, but
he stands out head and shoulders. He is calm, collected and organized: he is
in full control. He leads us into his inner office, looks at our papers,
writes down our names and asks a lot of questions. He is most interested in
the Russian roadblocks, in the number of tanks, in the movements of the
military. He is most interested in learning, if the tanks were stationed in
Hungary or are new ones, which recently arrived from elsewhere. We tell him
as much as we know, including that some of the tanks appeared to be clean and
unused. On a slip of paper, he writes down his telephone number and urges us
to give him an other report on our way back from Wienna.
       As we leave GY r, I start reading the blue album I have picked up at
AVH headquarters. It deals with the English Military Attachi. The material is
in chronological order. The story starts in 1949 and the last entry is in
September of 1956, just a few weeks ago. It deals with an insignificant
English Colonel, who has been transferred to Budapest in 1949 and who often
travels outside the country.
      The first contact of the AVH is made through one of their agents, a
former Hungarian aristocrat, who easily befriends the English Colonel, using
the fact that the colonel is a monumental snob. For a year, they just play
tarot and socialize with other former patricians. After a year, during one of
their tarot games, the aristocrat mentions, that he lost his Swiss-made
wrist-watch and can not get a replacement in Hungary. The Colonel says, that
he would be just too glad to bring him one, from his next trip abroad. The
blue blood discretely slips him an envelope with twice the purchase prize. A
few months later an other of their tarot partners repeats the exercise, now
asking for two watches, one for him and an other for his wife.  In addition
to the narrative in the album, I can also see photographs of the watches, the
money, and the envelopes.
       By 1951, the Colonel is bringing Swiss watches for whole graduating
classes and is making more on these transactions, than his regular salary. At
this point a new tarot partner is introduced to the Colonel, who makes some
vague hint, suggesting, that his smuggling activity is not completely unknown
to the authorities. The tarot game breaks up. The AVH is watching the Colonel
to see if he contacts the English Secret Service or if he might harm himself,
but other than a bit of depression and drinking, nothing happens. So in 1952,
the Hungarian aristocrat suggests that the Colonel should hire his cousin as
a maid.
      At this point the Colonel had a pretty good idea of who this cousin
might be. Yet he allows himself to be drawn into (a rather well documented)
love affair with this  maid  and in exchange for the female tenderness, or
because of fear, does not notice, that the maid is photographing the
documents on his desk.
      By 1956 there is no more acting. There is no more aristocrat, no more
maid, only spying assignments, threats and intimidation. The Colonel is
contemplating suicide, he is drinking heavily and has fallen into permanent
depression. Whenever he is near to a nervous breakdown, they leave him alone
for a few weeks. The entries in the album read like the notes of a
psychiatrist. The AVH is constantly evaluating the likelihood of his
emotional collapse, and is balancing the consequences of his committing
suicide, against the value of his services. In the last entry, dated in
September, 1956, his  handlers  are so worried, that they order the  maid  to
give the Colonel some powerful medication.
        I was at this point in my reading, when Gyurka stopped, because two
policemen were waving at us in the middle of the road. Their uniforms seem to
be the wrong size and they themselves look rather disoriented. They ask us
about our destination and we tell them. We learn that they are from Budapest
and they want to visit their relatives in Mosonmagyarsvar. (The name of this
town is a bit long, even for Hungarians, so the town is often referred to as
Svar.) We tell them to jump onto the back of the truck and forget about them.
       The roadblock at Svar is manned by nervous, trigger-happy freedom
fighters. Initially we don't know the cause of their frantic state, but they
explain, that the local AVH attacked their peaceful demonstration and killed
nearly a hundred unarmed civilians.  They were up on a balcony and just kept
firing and throwing hand-grenades onto the square, which was full of
demonstrators.  - one of them says.  Afterwards, we collected 113 unexploded
hand-grenades among the hundreds of casualties on the pavement  -adds an
other.  Few people slept in this town since then. Most families are in
mourning, you know  - adds a third.
        They take us to the Agricultural Academy. We go in, the policemen
stay on the truck. The corpses are laid out in the gymnasium. It is a
sickening and shocking sight. The head of the Revolutionary Council is a
mustached professor. His eyes are red, his nicotine darkened fingers are
trembling, his state is bordering on a nervous breakdown. We tell him about
our trip and about the situation in Budapest, but he does not seem to
comprehend, he keeps talking about two escaped AVH murderers. As we are
leaving Svar, the freedom fighters at the roadblock write down our license
plate number, the fact that there are four of us on the truck, and let us
pass.
      It is late afternoon, when we reach the border at Hegyeshalom. On the
Hungarian side, there are no border guards, the customs building is empty, we
just drive through. On the Austrian side, I give my order to the border
guard. He salutes, calls over a translator and  shortly thereafter, calls his
superiors. The Austrians have closed the Hungarian border, but the Red Cross
has already notified the border command of our coming. Therefore, when a
Captain shows up, he not only gives us a temporary pass into Austria, but
also a map, which shows the location of the hospital, where the blood is
waiting for us.
      I have a funny feeling as I realize that I have entered a foreign
country. For the first time in my life, I have left my homeland. It is a
strange, almost frightening feeling. It is only for a few hours, I keep
telling myself.
      As we pass into Austria, a remarkable sight emerges before our eyes. It
is like a country fair or an open market, there are hundreds of people and
vehicles milling around the Austrian side of the closed border. Cars, buses
and trucks are parked not only on the side of the road, but also on the
plough-land. I see boy scouts, priests and nuns, reporters, ambulances,
truckloads of food and medicine, intermixed with a lot of curious people.
      When they hear that our truck is from Budapest, they surround it so,
that we can not move. Some want to load oranges and chocolates onto our
truck, a group of Dutch students want to come back with us to Budapest, to
help in defending the capital. They don't seem to understand that this is our
fight, they don't seem to comprehend, why they could not help in it?
      A forest ranger, - in enormous leather breeches -, having a pot belly
and a Tyrolese hat, with a tuft of chamois-hair, covering his cheeky and
friendly gray head, - keeps pointing at my cockade and is saying something
like:  Geschenk.  I don't understand what he wants. At that point, he tears
off, from his green hunter's jacket, a hand-carved horn- button and hands it
to me. Now I understand, so I hand him my tri-colored rosette in exchange.
There is a sudden silence among the onlookers, as this teary eyed old
Austrian, with respectful dignity, pins on a Hungarian cockade.
      It took some time to find the hospital. People are already waiting for
us at the door and when we get there, all other activity comes to a
standstill. Doctors and nurses, elevator operators and patients are all
trying to help to load the truck, which is surrounded by a crowd. Strangers
are patting my shoulder, crying people are hugging me, no I am not in a
foreign country, I am home among my brothers in Austria.
      When we get back to the border, our truck is once again surrounded.
They fill the remaining space with the kinds of fruits, which I have seldom
or never seen, they load chocolate bars, candy, colorful boxes and cans of
different shapes and sizes. Our truck looks as if the contents of a
delicatessen been poured into it. When we are ready to leave, a reporter from
Time Magazine asks, if we would take him to Budapest. I take one last look at
the waving crowd, at the handkerchiefs which flutter in the air, see the
Captain of the border guards, saluting, while standing at stiff attention and
then, we are back on Hungarian soil.

Especially events that might
show Hungarians in good light since he obviously considers them all
guilty in that Holocaust.  And then he goes and writes books about it.

Oh, and did I read it right?  He is also a psychologist?

Joe Pannon

Dear Joe,
Why don't you read Prof.Braham's book? it is available in both English and
Hungarian. The new English edition is best. I am disturbed somewhat by your
"obviously" judgement.
Udv.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

Tamas Toth went to great length to prove that Mr. Csurka didn't call for
"rebellion/uprising/lazadas" and I was careless in quoting sources. After a
bit of sarcasm about my higher faculties, he goes on to say that Mr. Csurka
most likely never said anything of the sort and, in any case, no bloodbath
occurred. Therefore, I, along many other enemies of Mr. Csurka, was simply
mudslinging. Finally, he tells us who Mr. Csurka is and who is not.

My first posting on the subject came from the electronic newspaper,
"Hirmondo" (September 20). The abbreviated news was based on *Magyar Hirlap,*
a respected daily. And let me quote those couple of passages:

>Csurka lazadasra szolitott fel (MH)
>
>A Kadar-rendszer finomitott - tobbpartrendszeres - valtozataban elunk,
>de a helyzet megerett a valtoztatasra, ezert oktober 23-an az utcara
>kell menni a bukasra itelt hatalom ellen - mondta szombaton este Sumegen
>tartott nagygyulesen Csurka Istvan.
>
>A MIEP elnoke kijelentette:  "Minden perc, amit belenyugvassal toltunk,
>a karunkra van, mert szeduletes naivitas azt hinni, hogy 1998-ban majd
>mi jovunk, ugyanis ez a megfelemlitett es megalazott nep nem szavaz a
>szethuzo es anyagilag tonkretett ellenzeki partokra."
>
>Csurka szerint mar csak egyetlen megoldas lehetseges:  a polgari
>engedetlenseg, a lazadas, a tuntetes!  Eppen ezert mar oktober 22-ere a
>Kossuth terre szolitja a nemzetet, ugyanis megitelese szerint az 1956-os
>esemenyekhez hasonlo gyokeres valtoztatasokra van szukseg.  Hozzatette:
>az oktober 22-ei lazado es tunteto menetelesuket csupan a
>rendszervaltoztato akciosorozatuk elso aktusanak szanjak.

Thus, Tamas Toth's efforts to find Mr. Csurka's call for "lazadas" in his
newspaper, *Magyar Forum,* were surely in vain because according to  *Magyar
Hirlap* the words were uttered at a meeting held in Sumeg on September 18.
But that was not the only reference to Mr. Csurka's call for strikes,
demonstrations, and rebellion. At the MSZP's October 14th meeting (reported
in "Hirmondo, October 18), the party leaders present published a communique
saying:

>Veszelyes szervezkedes tanui vagyunk:  a MIEP es mas szelsojobboldali
>szervezetek az oktober 23-ai megemlekezeseket orszagunk politikai
>stabilitasanak, a rendszervaltas bekes jellegenek megzavarasara akarjak
>felhasznalni - olvashato az MSZP orszagos valasztmanyanak szombaton
>elfogadott nyilatkozataban.

And finally, here is the report on the demonstration itself and Mr. Csurka's
speech given at that time ("Hirmondo, October 25):

>Rendorsegi adatok szerint mintegy 25 ezer ember vett reszt vasarnap
>delutan Budapesten a MIEP kormanyellenes tuntetesen.  A part elnoke,
>Csurka Istvan nemzeti ellenallasra, polgari engedetlensegre szolitotta
>fel a hallgatosagat.  Mint kifejtette:  a szervezetlen lazadast meg ez a
>jelenlegi gyenge hatalom is kepes lenne letorni, a polgari
>engedetlenseggel szemben azonban tehetetlen.  A MIEP elnoke szerint egy
>mindenre kiterjedo altalanos teljes sztrajk lehet csak a valasz a
>koltsegvetes elfogadasara, s ebben a helyzetben jovore mar csak
>ugyvezetokent tisztelhetnek a Horn-kormanyt.

You may have noticed that Mr. Csurka changed his tune by October 22. He
clearly said at the gathering that "an unorganized rebellion/lazadas" can be
suppressed even by a weak government. The real answer therefore is "general
strike." Thus it is clear that Mr. Csurka didn't deny that he had called for
"lazadas"; in fact he reaffirmed it by saying that it may not be the best way
to deal with the current government.

All in all, I don't doubt that Mr. Csurka repeatedly called for "lazadas."
And let me add that "lazadas," on the whole, means "armed uprising," not some
kind of peaceful little demonstration. Right now I don't feel like digging up
more newspapers reports (terrible, terrible for a historian!) but I read
several articles in which it was reported that Mr. Csurka called on the
"police force" and the "army" to join forces with him. But a few days before
the actual event he toned down his rhetoric considerably.

And finally, I would like to point out that just because there was no "armed
rebellion" on October 22 that doesn't mean that Mr. Csurka is off the hook.
It simply means that he misjudged the political situation.

If Tamas Toth feels so terribly neutral about Mr. Csurka, I wonder why he
spends 140 some lines on this subject. I guess, simply for historical
accuracy!

Eva Balogh

>> Gero eredeti neve Singer volt. Sajnos azt kell mondanom, ha,
>zsidok kozott, nem lennenek bunozok, talan nem is lennenk igazi nep. Mi
>is Homo Sapiens Sapiens vagyunk, akik kozott jo szammal akadnak kegyetlenek.

Kristyan writes:

>Do not criticise your own church, other people will do it, just do not worry.

I do not feel theat the writer criticised his own church. He only said,
that the jewish are not better or worse than other people. That was a
correct statment.
 To continue in this way, we catholics, hungarians etc. are only humans,
as such you find criminals among us.


  Sandor

>From: > (MAILER-DAEMON) (by way of
  (Andy Kozma))
>Subject: No such user: .
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>
>----- YOUR ORIGINAL MESSAGE -----
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>>From  Wed Oct 25 13:44:05 1995
>Sender: 
>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 13:46:59 -0400
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>From:  (Rick Bruner) (by way of   (Andy
Kozma))
>Subject: Hungary Report 1.24/a (SPECIAL)
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>
>  ========================
>  The Hungary Report
>
>  Direct from Budapest, every week
>
>  Also available on the World Wide Web
>  (http://www.isys.hu/hrep/)
>
>  No. 1.24/a (SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT FEATURE)
>  October 23, 1995
>  ========================
>
>
>  SPONSORED BY: iSYS Kft., providing full Internet solutions for
>  companies and individuals in Hungary. For further information, send
>  e-mail to >, view our World Wide Web home page
>  (http://www.isys.hu) or call (+36-1) 266-6090.
>
>
>Greetings Dear Readers,
>
>In light of the fact that we sent out the latest issue of the Hungary
>Report only last Thursday, we will not publish a full edition this week,
>but only next Monday, October 30. Below, however, please find an essay
>specially relevant to today's public holiday, the 39th anniversary of the
>1956 Uprising. We hope you find it thought-provoking.
>
>-- Rick
>
>
>=============
>FEATURE ESSAY
>
>Brown Shoes and the Dymystification of 1956
>
>By Laszlo Petrovics-Onfer
>
>Copyright (c) 1995
>
>Most recountings of October 1956 are still anecdotal, derived from what
>people saw or experienced.  These recountings are very real to them, and
>most
>tend to view it as the "real thing" -- the actuality of what happened.  But
>this does not make for historical fact, only as a grain of sand is an
>actuality in the desert, and historians must take into account the
>mutiplicity of communal experience.
>
>My professor at Eotvos Lorand, weeping, recounted her experieces of living
>on
>the Boulevard and when the first shootings occured into the demonstrators in
>front of Parliament heard, and still hears, the sirens of ambulances
>screaming all day and well into the night.  She turned to me.  "You lived on
>Damjanics Street.  You had luck.  It was far from the fighting."
>
>Early mythologizing of the Revolution began with people like Mitchner whose
>"Bridge at Andau" actually states that the very first shot fired by the AVO
>from the rooftops hit, of all things, "a baby in his mother's arms."  Good
>for Mitchner,  and the school of usery, but poor for history, for Hungary.
>The poor book, the first rush to print in the West and first massive media
>exposure of the Revolution, is such a quickie that no editing was undertaken
>in the first editions.  It is riddled with misspelling and poor grammar on
>every page as any High School essay.  It can hardly be considered
>"historically accurate."  But one can consider it as hurtful, even
>debauching, as it befouls the sanctity of that Autumn when, eyes wide open,
>beheld the purest of truth and also peered closely at a purity of hate.
>What
>will echo down from those few days -- to us, to our children, to another
>time?
>
>Damjanics Street lay next to the Gorky Row, lined with young chestnuts whose
>lower branches were almost within reach -- almost.  It is true, I did not
>hear sirens.  And it is true, my parents wanted me to stay indoors.  But I
>snuck out.  And this is what I saw.  By Gorky Row students with the
>tri-colored armbands rushing and shouting about a traitor. The "secret
>policeman," or so presumed, was hung by his legs over a small fire.  The
>loud
>plaid trousers that covered his frame only partially, was singed, but
>recognizable at once -- the used pair of trousers recieved in a care package
>from relatives in the States weeks earlier, '50s wild-plaid,  belonged to
>Gyula Bacsi, the father of a neighbor, Pisti, a friend in third grade, two
>ahead of me.  I had played soccer with him, wrestled in the playground out
>back and he had taught me chess, the Queen's gambit and Cicylian defense.
>As
>I stood amid dark wood then, in the cold October -- my fellow countrymen
>howling, as when storm-swept wind rakes Buda's hills -- I do not recall
>crying at the time, unlike my Professor from Eotvos.  So blest even now, as
>many Hungarians, by healing tears.  I stood transfixed and numb from
>trauma.
>Gyula was a plumber, no member of the Party and a true patriot, this much I
>knew.  A white light overcame my child's consciousness.  I saw his charred
>skull, face half eaten by flame.  I looked into the heart of darkness, a
>blackness now consuming all light, the heart of Hatered.  I heard the cry,
>"Barna cipo," rotten brown-shoed, the color of the shoes of the sercet
>service officers.  It was only years later, in psychoanalysis, that I
>reconstructed that the man had been lynched for wearing his only pair of
>shoes -- a deadly color at the time.
>
>So, as a young '56er, were you to ask me of the revolution, the last phrase
>I
>would use is a "glorious uprising against Communism."  And I would be
>correct
>-- for me it was my nation reduced once again to animal-like fratricide.
>But
>this view is far from history -- far from historical fact.  As we are still
>not suffciently distanced, nor free from the vicissitudes and feelings that
>color those days.  The Revolution was, in fact, the first glorious
>resistance
>to Russian tyranny.  But there were also criminal elements -- prisoners of
>crime let loose to gut the Corvin.  There was also, especially as the
>uprising waned, fascist elements.  Graffiti on the wall -- "Moshe, you will
>die before you reach Auschwitz."
>
>Whether the Revolution foreshadowed the cataclysmic changes of 1989 is not
>yet sure. It is a fact, that especially among those who escaped and looked
>longingly backward toward Transdanubia, across heaving borders and heaving
>seas, it was "glorious," as much as 1848 was "glorious," and tragic, as any
>"A People's Tragedy" by Imre Madacs.  But history, from the mist of
>mythology, may draw different conclusions as even today the American
>Revolution is rewritten.  "The American Revolution: How Revolutionary Was
>It?" asks a recent book from a historian from the Universityof Worchester.
>We have the right, all of us, to cry for our pain, and also to ask -- '56s:
>How
>revolutionary was it?  After romanticism and mythology wane, will it be seen
>as a counter revolution, a patriotic revolt, or a mere skirmish.  Will it
>echo down as the germ, foreshadowing of the changes of 1989.  Or will it be
>seen as a mere slide into the 40 year deep bowl of "gulyas communism."  Will
>the Hungarian history of this century be remembered by 1956, or perhaps by
>1944? The sheer weight of numbers bear strong on true history.  In 1956
>nearly 10,000 Hungarians died at enemy hands, in 1944, 600,000 Hungarians
>died largely at Hungarian hands.  Which will be remembered?  In flesh or
>thought? Especially since even the most professional of historians are human
>and hunger for "the new slant on history,"  we simply are left to our
>mythologizing for now, outside the veins of history, which have yet to be
>written.
>
>But, according to critics in the field of history, definitve texts about the
>Hungarian Holocaust HAVE already been written.  Moment by moment, thematic
>accounts ranging back to Jewish Emancipation in 1861, and sentences that are
>jammed with so many facts from Numerus Clausus to Numerus Nullus through
>1944, that one sentence may yield many pages of cross references, and pages
>of related information, quotes from newspapers, Parliamentary Decrees, other
>texts as well as eye-witness accounts --in 8 point font, no less, the facts
>behind the facts, that reinforce and sustain a backdrop for the main text.
>The
>Politics of Genocide: The Hungarian Holocaust, Columbia University Press, by
>Randolph Braham, is one such book.   It speaks to the world, because it is
>written in English.  And it speaks to Hungary, because it has been
>translated.
>
>I know of no such multiple volume work in English about the Revolution, one
>that may definitively speak to the world.   A group effort, led by the
>genius
>of one like Braham, is imperative while those who experienced 1956 in flesh
>can contribute their recountings.  Otherwise, a key to our historical
>heritage may rest in the hands of  Revisionists, a movement that tried to
>discolor the historical facts of 1944. One feels the craving for the
>demythologized truth.
>
>                               * * *
>
>Laszlo Petrovics-Ofner is a Hungarian-American novelist and psychologist
>living in Budapest. His first novel, Broken Places (Atlantic Monthly
>Press), is a collection of oral histories from his family spanning from
>WWII to 1956. He is currently at work on his second novel dealing with the
>Americanization of a Hungarian emigre youth.
>
>
>===========
>FINAL BLURB
>
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>
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>
>================
>END TRANSMISSION
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thank's for the memories Peter.As per your address I thunk you are still in
univesity.I just mentioned this since than you are realey too young to know
too much about 56.
You are right there werent any progroms or large scale executions,only small
scale on Avo people.But as I mentioned it was not the people,but the Soviet arm
y
wich prevented this.If the revolution would have continued we do not know
what would have happened since the pole are allways looking for scapegoats.
Since I can see you are in Quebec (I hope they stay in Canada),I have to
tell you that for a considerable time I lived in Montreal.But at the first
victory of the Partie Quebecois I left the province.
Once or twice in your life it is enough to live with restricting laws and
differences beetween people.Tha is the reason I live in Toronto now.
I hope this letter ensure my reply to you.
Andy K.

Dear Tamas,

  Csurka called policemen and officers of the army to participate in an
  uprising. That is de jure a  "call for armed uprising" . Against the
  goverment AND some people who are supposed to be moved to some places
  in Hungary by some conspirators or somebody else.
  Of course he meant Jews. He always means Jews, he is completely obsessed
  with Jews.

  The question is whether the Hungarian government should or should not
  sanction, monitor, regulate speech. EU states generally regulate sppech
  but very moderately. I think, we should follow EU guidelines and LIGHTLY
  regulate speech. Direct hate speech should not be protected and it
  should be fined (no jailterm should be rendered for speech). Codewords,
  general uglyness, unpopular views and plain idiocy should and must be
  protected. Csurka is using codewords, presents general uglyness, his
  views are, thank God unpopular, and he shows sign of dementia. His speech
  rights still should be protected up to the point (still protected by
  the Bill of Rights) he is using direct, hateful language against
  specified ethnic groups. It is my opinion.

  You believe he is right in some sense. It is hard not to be right
  at least in some sense. I think (you posted something similiar in HIX)
  you alluded to his views about
  punishing crimes of communists. Again, I think Bill of Atteinder
  Guilt by Association  and Post Facto Legislation
  are wrong.
  Csurka's lustration plan was stained by the three legal phenomena
  above.

  I think it is terrible, that former hard-liner, ideologue, Mr Barabas
  is now the CEO of Ganz Mavag Ansaldo. Or that Imre Nagy, former
  KISZ first secretary,(no relation with the murdered prime-minister) is
  second in command at Caola Company. It is morally wrong.
  However, I was once in the position to hit Mr Nagy. I was in the
  same room, I actually talked to him. I did not try to hit him.
  Nobody tried. Although the punishment would have been maximum couple of
  years in prison. Not death. Just prison term or to be banned to have
  a decent job. How many people hit the comrades on the face ? Zilch.
  (I mean in my lifetime, being born seven years after the Revolution)
  How many risked their jobs ? Kis, TGM, Demszky, Csurka, and may be
  a hundred more. We were coward and looking the smile of Mr Barabas
  is the punishment for our cowardness. EG

What I wrote is right. i.e. Non of us better or worse than the other.
On the other hand, I am sorry that I put my nose into something, of which
I did not know the full story. I guess Robi and Kristyan can come to an
understanding without a third person butting in.

Sorry,

Sandor

>Thank's for the memories Peter.As per your address I thunk you are still in
>univesity.I just mentioned this since than you are realey too young to know
>too much about 56.
>You are right there werent any progroms or large scale executions,only small
>scale on Avo people.But as I mentioned it was not the people,but the Soviet
army
>wich prevented this.If the revolution would have continued we do not know
>what would have happened since the pole are allways looking for scapegoats.
>Since I can see you are in Quebec (I hope they stay in Canada),I have to
>tell you that for a considerable time I lived in Montreal.But at the first
>victory of the Partie Quebecois I left the province.
>Once or twice in your life it is enough to live with restricting laws and
>differences beetween people.Tha is the reason I live in Toronto now.
>I hope this letter ensure my reply to you.
>Andy K.

Dear Andy,
You should not worry about who I am but what I am saying. My age, may
participation in the Revolution of 1956 in Hungary may not add to my wisdom (it
may, however.) Nobody knows what could have happened after November 4, 1956 but
we do not a great deal about what did happen. We know, for example, that Kadar
and the Soviets murdered hundreds of people, jailed thousands. Many of them
were the children of Jewish parents (Angyall, Eorsi, Dery T. etc). Jews were
not to have responsible posts in the party. That was a policy (exception
Aczel).

Finally let me quote for you from a confidential document of the Political
Department of the World Jewish Congress, entitled "Jeiwhs Community in Hungary
and Hungarian Jewish Refugees; Report on investigation inVienna," date 10th
December 1956.

"All the information confirmed that the revolution was a spontaneous popular
movement with the active participation of an almost unprecedentedly large
percentage of the population. Except for the members of the political police
(AVH), there were no Hungarians, not even Communist Party members, who would
have opposed the revolution."

"Anti-Semitism.
This spirit no doubt partly expaoins the surprising fact that there was
practically no anti-Semitism noticeable during the revolutionary upheaval. This
indeed came as a surprise since everybody was convinced that the population of
Hungary was more anti-Semitic than ever, and Hungarian Jews feared
pogroms in case of any political changes.
        The absence of anti-Semitism was confirmed by all eye-witnesses of the
revolt. Merely two small incidents have become known: one was a small
demonstration of 100 studnets or so, two or three months earlier, after the
famous meeting of the 'Petoefi Circle' of intellectuals and writers, at which
criticism of the regime was for the first time openly expressed. The sutnets
demonstrating in the streets were immediately dispersed by the police. The
second, during the actual revolution, relates to the demonstrations of 23rd
Octoboer which started the uprising. One samll group of studnets was reported
to have shouted ';Down with the Jews', but this was immediately suppressed by
the others. (As against this, we might mention that among the various
detachments of university faculties and colleges, each marching with banners
inicating their schools, there was one inscribed 'Jewish Rabbinical Seminary.')
.
        Jewish youth participated in the fighting as much as the rest of the
population."

"In the course of the rounding up of AVH men (who were usually brutally
lynched by the mob), a Jewish AVH man was caught but, when his identity as a
Jew was discovered, he was set free because his execution could have been
mis-interpreted as 'anti-Semitism'. This attitude, not to let the pure cause of
the revolution be besmirched, was noticeable in other respects also. Though
windows were shattered and shops torn open, the revolutonary leaders managed to
keep the crowds back from pillage or looting."

This may not be the whole story but this is the way Hungarian refugee Jews saw
the situation in 1956 in Vienna.

The complete document can be found at the Canadian Jewish Archives in Montreal.

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

>Thank's for the memories Peter.As per your address I thunk you are still in
>univesity.I just mentioned this since than you are realey too young to know
>too much about 56.
>You are right there werent any progroms or large scale executions,only small
>scale on Avo people.But as I mentioned it was not the people,but the Soviet
>army
>wich prevented this.If the revolution would have continued we do not know
>what would have happened since the pole are allways looking for scapegoats.
>Since I can see you are in Quebec (I hope they stay in Canada),I have to
>tell you that for a considerable time I lived in Montreal.But at the first
>victory of the Partie Quebecois I left the province.
>Once or twice in your life it is enough to live with restricting laws and
>differences beetween people.Tha is the reason I live in Toronto now.
>I hope this letter ensure my reply to you.
>Andy K.

Dear Andy,
You should not worry about who I am but what I am saying. My age, may
participation in the Revolution of 1956 in Hungary may not add to my wisdom
(it may, however.) Nobody knows what could have happened after November 4,
1956 but we do not a great deal about what did happen. We know, for
example, that Kadar and the Soviets murdered hundreds of people, jailed
thousands. Many of them were the children of Jewish parents (Angyall,
Eorsi, Dery T. etc). Jews were not to have responsible posts in the party.
That was a policy (exception Aczel).

Finally let me quote for you from a confidential document of the Political
Department of the World Jewish Congress, entitled "Jeiwhs Community in
Hungary and Hungarian Jewish Refugees; Report on investigation inVienna,"
date 10th December 1956.

"All the information confirmed that the revolution was a spontaneous
popular movement with the active participation of an almost unprecedentedly
large percentage of the population. Except for the members of the political
police (AVH), there were no Hungarians, not even Communist Party members,
who would have opposed the revolution."

"Anti-Semitism.
This spirit no doubt partly expaoins the surprising fact that there was
practically no anti-Semitism noticeable during the revolutionary upheaval.
This indeed came as a surprise since everybody was convinced that the
population of Hungary was more anti-Semitic than ever, and Hungarian Jews
feared
pogroms in case of any political changes.
        The absence of anti-Semitism was confirmed by all eye-witnesses of
the revolt. Merely two small incidents have become known: one was a small
demonstration of 100 studnets or so, two or three months earlier, after the
famous meeting of the 'Petoefi Circle' of intellectuals and writers, at
which criticism of the regime was for the first time openly expressed. The
sutnets demonstrating in the streets were immediately dispersed by the
police. The second, during the actual revolution, relates to the
demonstrations of 23rd Octoboer which started the uprising. One samll group
of studnets was reported to have shouted ';Down with the Jews', but this
was immediately suppressed by the others. (As against this, we might
mention that among the various detachments of university faculties and
colleges, each marching with banners inicating their schools, there was one
inscribed 'Jewish Rabbinical Seminary.').
        Jewish youth participated in the fighting as much as the rest of
the population."

"In the course of the rounding up of AVH men (who were usually brutally
lynched by the mob), a Jewish AVH man was caught but, when his identity as
a Jew was discovered, he was set free because his execution could have been
mis-interpreted as 'anti-Semitism'. This attitude, not to let the pure
cause of the revolution be besmirched, was noticeable in other respects
also. Though windows were shattered and shops torn open, the revolutonary
leaders managed to keep the crowds back from pillage or looting."

This may not be the whole story but this is the way Hungarian refugee Jews
saw the situation in 1956 in Vienna.

The complete document can be found at the Canadian Jewish Archives in Montreal.

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

Kedves Kristyan: Levelem ilyen megfogalmazasat akkor bantam meg, amikor
mar keso volt. Mentseg-e az, hogy indiszponaltan, betegsegbol labadozva
irtam? Kulonben, csak megjelentekor jottem ra, hogy szovegem ketertelmu
volt. Nem azt akartam mondani, hogy a zsidok kozott vannak kegyetlenek
szep [nem jo, ahogy szinten tevesen irtam], hanem az egesz emberiseget
rantottam le szereny kis enem...
        Ami a filozofiai reszet illeti: Rousseau hires arrol, hogy az
ember alaptermeszetet jonak iteli. Ez a vizet predikalas cinikus esete:
az adott ur rossz ember volt. Pl. torvenytelen gyerekeit (cseledlanyatol)
mind (hanyat?) kitetette egy arvahaz ele, ahol a gyerekhalandosag 90%
folott volt. Errol bovebben: Paul Johnson THE INTELLECTUALS: brillians
tortenesz, akinek neve mar szerepelt a hix-ben. Genesis 8:21 szerint
viszont Isten megallapitja, hogy az ember szivenek osztone rossz gyerek
kora ota es ezert nem fogja oket a vizozonnel hasonlokkal buntetni.
        Zaroszokent: nem tagadhatni, hogy Rakos es Gero cinikus kegyetlen
emberek voltak, de ezert nem lehet a zsidokat hibaztatni, mint ahogy
Szalasiert sem kell bantani az ormenyeket - es nem is folytatom. Gondolom
kozben olvastad a magyarazatot a Ger-re, technikai jellegu. Es bocsanat
azoktol, akit felrefogalmazott iromanyocskam megbantott.
        Most veszem eszre, hogy magyarul irtam. Meg nem vagyok egeszen
jol.                    Udv, R

Prof. Peter Hidas wrote:
>
>Why don't you read Prof.Braham's book? it is available in both English and
>Hungarian. The new English edition is best. I am disturbed somewhat by your
>"obviously" judgement.

I've seen that book quoted so many times that I feel I already know too
much about it to motivate me to read it.  Frankly, if I could spare some
time, I'd rather read Arno Meyers book first.  But anyway, what does
that have to do with '56?  My main objection to P-O's post and now his
"Brown shoe ..." piece is that he is using the commemoration of '56 as
another opportunity to bring up the Holocaust as if there was some kind
of connection between them.

My "obvious" judgement may be disturbing to you, and perhaps I should
have used different description based on the private e-mail he sent to
me that you could not have seen.  I wonder how you would describe him
if you read his Hungary Report piece.  Franly, I think it was a lousy
smear of the '56 uprising.  So lousy, in fact, that I could only expect
from those who indeed had something to fear in '56.  And not because of
being Jewish.

Joe Pannon

Peter Hidas to Andy K:

>Finally let me quote for you from a confidential document of the Political
>Department of the World Jewish Congress, entitled "Jeiwhs Community in Hungary
>and Hungarian Jewish Refugees; Report on investigation inVienna," date 10th
>December 1956.

Dear Peter:
Any idea why this document is classified as confidential?
I mean I don't see any sensitive information in it that might hurt
somebody.  Quite the contrary.

Thanks,
Joe Pannon