> ========================================================================
              AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF YOUNG HUNGARIANS
                 FIATAL MAGYAROK AMERIKAI EGYESULETE
> ========================================================================


         Erdeklodessel varunk minden magyar egyetemistat

           1995. oktober 6-an, pentek este 7:00 orakor

                      BARATI TALALKOZONKRA

           a new brunswick-i Magyar Orokseg Kozpontban.

                   Hungarian Heritage Center
                      300 Somerset Street
                    New Brunswick, NJ 08901

      Finom falatokkal es frissito italokkal is szolgalunk!

A Fiatal Magyar Amerikai Egyesulete tagsagat fokent Amerikaban 
szuletett magyar szarmazasu es magyar-erdeklodesu egyetemistak 
es ertelmisegiek kepzik.  Talalkozonk celja, hogy megismerjunk 
benneteket s ennek soran megoszthassuk tapasztalainkat, s hogy 
erositsuk kapcsolatainkat mint magyarsag tobb foldreszen elo 
fiatal tagjai.

Tovabbi informacioert hivd Vegy Adrienn-t az esti orakban: 
(908) 750-0493


---
AAYH Email:		
AAYH WWW:		http://www.aayh.org/


p

#####################################
C'mon Gabor, Samantha Fox is much better looking! I also like Jessica Hahn!
 I start to agree with you that we should have more threads about this than 
Rumania. Except would it be soc or culture?
Gyuri
###################################
Sure whould Gyuri,
guess who's T.W. ?
Bet she's a hot one ! maybe not sleezy enough  for Angi  ? eh ?

Interviewed by Poet and Producer, the one and only, native Canadian , 
Wally Keeler:
> ===================================================
Wally Killer.: So T.W., how did a nice girl like you get into this business?
T.W.: To make some money.  I tried hostessing but it was just another rip
 off. You worked long hours pouring champagne down fat businessmen's 
throats only to find your wages at the end of the week wasn't what they
 promised.  Some weeks they couldn't even afford to pay us. It made me 
sick. 

WK: Was fucking on camera difficult at first? 
TW: A little, but i've always enjoyed sex and I'm a natural actress sexually. 

WK: You knew how to fake an orgasm? 
TW: Oh for fuck's sake! Just about every girl does. I mean I'd had sex 
since my early teens. At one stage I'd worked for one of those sex number 
chatlines, you know, the heavy breathers, and blokes who want dirty
 conversations. Listening to men talk about kinky sex and talking dirty 
back to them had been my daily job, so I was used to making up sexual...
 I had once one guy, Angi or something, he was never able to get up
 though.

WK: Repartee? 
TW: Yes, anyway I like to hear a guy call me dirty names in bed, or tell 
him to 'fuck me harder'. It turns me on. 

WK: Let's talk about you sexually on screen. Do you like females? 
TW: Not really in private life, no...(giggling), I mean, a tongue's a 
tongue isn't it? Especially if you're getting paid for it. 

WK: You seem to have done several scenes in movies where you use a 
strap on dildo. Are you into kinkysex? 
TW: Not really. With girls I prefer to be in charge, to take control. 
Instead of just lying on my back with my legs up in the air. Working in
 the business has made me broad minded generally, but i like putting 
wimpy guys in their place. 

WK: You mean like Angi ?
TW: Yeah, you got it !

WK: Do you orgasm on screen? 
TW: It can happen but it's not that easy. I mean the positions fuckin' 
directors want are usually the most uncomfortable and i need a guy who 
knows how to fuck properly. 
WK: You always seem a noisy fuck in videos. 
TW: So would you be if you had a cock shoved up you. 

WK: (laughing) you're probably right...but am I right in thinking you like 
a  good hard fuck? 
TW: Absolutely. 

WK: How important is the acting to you? 
TW: After a time it becomes the only thing that really interests you.
 I mean you tend to work with the same guys time and time again and,
 at the end of the day, a fuck is a fuck. So you look forward to a part you
 can develop. 

WK: ...and earn good money? 
TW: For fuck's sake man, that's the reason I'm in this business. I get at
 least $500 a scene and with dancing around the country - which pays the 
best  money - I can earn $15,000 a week, not bad for an ex-shop assistant 
at Boots.  Now I've got a nice sports car and a really nice home. 

WK: What about facial cum-shots? 
TW: As long as they don't splash me in the eyes. ?The fucking stuff stings. 

WK: You don't mind taking it all over your tongue? 
TW: Oral sex is pretty natural isn't it ? I mean I like sucking cock if it's a
really nice one. Sure, I don't mind swallowing cum, it's part of the job isn't
 it? 
--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--***ATTENTION***
Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED.
Please, report inappropriate use to                
For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to    
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Steve Kovasznai > writes:

>Valaki vilagositson mar fel, hogy miert van ennyi roman a 
>soc.culture.magyar newsgroup-on? 
>kosz. 
>kovi



we've been old friends for quite a while.
you have a problem with that, PUNK?!


--

In article >  (Ralph Eiserm
ann) writes:

> >  ROMANIA is a "more appropriate" naming for two reasons:
> > - It is the official name commonly used in recent publications
> > - It shows more clearly the historical connection
> >
> As Munich is for Muenchen as international standart.

Indeed, like in Dutch Keulen stands for Ko"ln and Boedapest for Budapest.
Hongarije for Hungary and Roemenie" for Rumania/Romania (actually oe is
the u sound in Dutch).

So what's the big deal? Obviously the point is not whether it's o or u but
what is attributable to that one letter. Many people regard this of
importance to their ethnic heritage, whilst that to me remains unclear.
I mean, if you say Romania and claim the root 'Roman' to be signifying a
classical 'Roman Empire' origin, you could just as well say that it
signifies a gypsy origin, since Roma is one of the main groups within the
gypsy community. Or take the 'mania' part and invent some obscure and
illogic reference to madness.

Where I live Rumania is used mostly. Interestingly in Hungarian it's
Roma'nia and not Ruma'nia. So I'll stick to using what the place requires
I'm in or the language I am using at a particular time. For English usage
(for me) it's Rumania. No offense.


> -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Thomas Tavoly + A4000 =  |  _
  -I'm in therapy for Chronic Windows Defenestration Syndrome.._ //
> ---------------------------------------------- [.sig v3.1pl9] -\X/-

 (Dan Pop) wrote:

>
>Anyway, for some obscure reasons, the Hungarians from USA and Canada seem
>seem to despair orders of magnitude more than those from Transylvania.
>
>Dan
>--
>Dan Pop
>CERN, CN Division
>Email:  
>Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

Perhaps that is due to tha fact that Hungarian-Americans and 
Hungarian-Canadians have far better chance at getting to Internet than 
Hungarians in Transylvania.  Once on the Internet, they seem to run into 
a lot of people from other lands, like Romanians from Switzerland, the 
US, etc.  (Unless Romania is now claiming Switzerland as part of their 
ancestral place, too.)

Charles Vamossy

On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Sandor Lengyel x2495 wrote:

> M. Christian asks:
> 
> >>In human terms, I wonder, how does the quality of your despair fare 
when
> >>compared to those of other minorities, in Indonesia, Irak, Serbia, or
> >>last but not least, to the squalarous discrimination faced by native
> >>americans in many a reservation ?
> 
> How can you ask, without knowing us.
> 
> I always take the side of the minorities in any struggle. My heart
> hurts for the american indians, and I always take their side.
>  And I do take the side od the Basque
> and other minorities. I know from reading the hungarian forum, that
> most hungarians are for the bosnians. There are no excuse for any of the
> above, just as no excuse for trampling on the right of the hungarian
> minority.
> 
> >>There is a fine line between 'human rights' and a minority demanding 
more
> >>than it is due.
> 
> And you know where the line should be drawn. :-)
> 
> Sandor

From following the discussion, I guess that there is some 
misunderstanding on the position of minorities in Serbia.  

One thing needs to be clear.  At this time, Serbia is a country under 
harsh sanctions, devestated by 1,000,000 refugees.  The fact is that in 
Milosevic's regime even Serbs don't have their rights (i.e. what kind of 
name is "Yugoslavia" for a Serb federation of Serbia and Montenegro).  
Serbs who oppose the regime are in no worse position than others.  
(Frankly, an overall position of all citizens is fairly good now).

So, knowing that, it's kind of premature to judge the position of 
Hungarians in Vojvodina and Belgrade.  It is well known that until 1991 
they had full rights and full autonomy in the province of Vojvodina.  I 
will not go into that "deep".  However, Milosevic's regime recruited many 
Hungarians to the Serbian Army - some were killed by Croats, most of them 
got back home, many simply "deserted".  This was the first sparkle on the 
position of Hungarians in Serbia.  But please note that 250,000 Serbs from
Belgrade and Vojvodina (young, educated people) fled, too.  So, this is more 
of a political than a minority question (even though Hungary has the full 
right to express its concern).  

The only other remaining issue is the future form of autonomy for 
Hungarians.  There is no single reason why would there be any problem.  
Serbs and Magyars of Belgrade and Vojvodina know very well that their 
relationship was always rather excellent and that there was almost no 
misunderstanding.  Two peoples have always shared a common life in 
Hungarian plains, and they have no reason not to continue with that.  
These coming years (or months) will put Hungarian autonomy where it needs 
to be, and that is their full share of power in Vojvodina province (which 
they have lost; only Milosevic's satellites take part, such as Kertesz, 
Margit Savovics etc.).  That will be resolved in the near future.  Other 
forms of autonomy (schools, university, bilingual counties, TV) are 
present.

The last remaining "problem" is the new wave of refugees from Bosnia.  
Many were sent to Vojvodina, many to inner Serbia.  The problem is big 
and is not fabricated to provoke Hungarians.  It's just a tragedy.  Not 
only that Serbian government does stupid things, but so does Hungarian - 
there was an immediate response to refugees coming to Vojvodina (as a 
threat to ethnic ratio), but no response to Croatian genocide in 
Krajina and a kick-out of those people.  That has left Serb nationalists 
very happy giving them arguments about Hungarian "anti-Serbian" 
position.  

Indeed, Serbia and Hungary should find a common language easily.  But, 
Serbia has to change politically, and Hungary has to acknowledge that 
Serbia is its primary interest and a friend (so does Serbia).  Hungary 
must claim full neutrality in the Yugo war and not try to get cheap 
points with Americans and western Europeans on accusing "Serbian beast" 
when its clear that no one in Yugoslavia is innocent.

Overall, this problem is not an ethnic problem, it's pure politics.  As 
soon as the war stops, things will settle.  Compare to Transylvania, 
Vojvodina has always been a peaceful ethnic mixture (26 nationalities).


Boris Bjelica
Oregon State University


PS If many try to find hard that Serbs and Hungarians have "no problem" 
together, the illustrative fact is the number of mixed marriages in 
Vojvodina and Belgrade.  That's the main reason why Hungarian population 
"decreased" by 50,000 since 1945 - a few hundred thousand consider themselves
"Yugoslav".  Another thing is the 1956 help that Serbia provided to 
Hungarian heroes - several tens of thousands fled to Serbia, of which 
some 15,000 permanently settled.  No one has seen any problem with that, 
so there should be some understanding for homeless (previously rich) 
Serbs from Krajina.

Cheers.

In article >,
Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:

>>Valaki vilagositson mar fel, hogy miert van ennyi roman a
>>soc.culture.magyar newsgroup-on?
>>kosz.
>>kovi
>Nem tudom. Talan mert mindig eltevednek a hataron.

Hat az biztos, hogy ott is tobbnyire egyiranyu a forgalom. 

Egyebkent lehet, hogy engem hibaztathattok, mivel en szoktam atjarni az
o hircsoportjukba visszabeszelni nekik, amikor vagy rolunk, vagy
tortenelmunkrol hazudoznak.  Talan ezert kaptak verszemet, s kezdtek
viszonozni a viziteket. 

Az Angi Tomitol fuggetlenul tovabbra is fenntartom, hogy oriasi
kulonbseg van a mi es o oldaluk kozott, mivel szemelyes
serteseket a Tomi erkezeseig nem lattam a magyar vitazoktol.  Ez szinte
kizarolagosan a szomszedokra jellemzo.  Amint emlekszem, a Tomi is csak
azutan kezdte, miutan ot tamadtak igy le.  Ez azert nem ugyanaz, mint a
kezdemenyezes.  De azert megis jobb lenne, ha nem folyamodnal ugyanazon
eszkozokhoz, Tomi, amihez ok.  Utolag ugyanis sokan nem emlekeznek, hogy
kezdodott a dolog, s ujjal mutogatnak majd rad, hogy te sem vagy kulonb.

J.P.

Bezug: mail von 


>
> > From: Liviu Iordache >
>  ..............
> >> From: Matthew Peter Muresan
> >
> > >Yes, up to the late 1950s, the generally accepted
> > >spelling was Rumania[...] It was even in line with the
> > >way many (less educated probably) Romanians have called
> > >themselves for centuries ("rumi^n" -- just think of some
> > >ballads and other such folklore).
> ................
> > Yes, but as far as linguistic is concerned "Romanian" is
> > derived from "romanus" via "ruma~n" and not the other way
> > around. The evolutionary path, as correctly as it can be
> > reconstructed, is
> >
> > romanus-->ruma~n-->rumi^n-->roma^n
> >
> > Therefore, none of the above spellings contradicts the
> > Latin roots of the Romanian language. As a matter of
> > fact, I'm not aware of any theory that denies the Latin
> > roots of Romanians.
This is similar to spellings in ladins, the raetoroman  
language in South Tirol.
They also use ruman-*
While surfing on the net, I got some evidence that romanian  
and raetoroman languages are seen as one group -BTW,  
raetoroman was spoken in Germany some hundred years ago, in  
the middle ages.
>
> The evolution explained is well known by many people and I think that,
> leaving aside the jokes, what  some people tried to say is that :
There are many similar examples in other languages, so I  
don t understand why some people make such a mess out off  
it.

>
>  ROMANIA is a "more appropriate" naming for two reasons:
> - It is the official name commonly used in recent publications
> - It shows more clearly the historical connection
>
As Munich is for Muenchen as international standart.

## CrossPoint v3.02 R ##

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>
>Well, on USA pressure the Hungarian government will compensate
>Hungarian Jews because of WWII. The sum that will be distributed
>is estimated at 10-20 Md Ft (app. 80-160 mio $).

Amit nem ertek ebben, az a kovetkezo:
Szinte minden vitaban, amikor valaki felhozza a zsidok aranytalanul nagy
reszvetelet a kommunista eroszakszervezetekben, kezdve mar 1919-tol, a
tipikus valasz az szokott lenni, hogy amit tettek azt nem mint zsidok,
hanem magyarok tettek; zsido szarmazasuknak semmi koze hozza.  No jo,
mondom magamnak, ezt el tudom fogadni.  Amit viszont nem tudok elfogadni
az az ilyen kulonleges, es csak a zsidokat megilleto karterites, mint
amit Tamas emlitett fent.  Ilyenkor miert nem illeti oket ugyanolyan
karterites, mint minden mas magyar allampolgart?   Ezzel most nem azt
akarom tagadni, hogy nem szenvedtek sokat a haborus evekben, de be
kellene latniuk, hogy masok is szenvedtek, s az oket ert katasztrofat
nem a magyarok kezdemenyeztek, s abban is aranylag csak egy kis szazalek
aszisztalt.  Azok meg hetediziglen meglettek mar buntetve.  Szerintem,
bar erre nincs statisztikam, a nem-zsido magyarok sokkal kisebb
szazaleka vetett ellenuk, mint forditva, a kommunizmus alatt.  Az igaz,
hogy a magyarok tobbsege, ha nem is tett nekik keresztbe, de nem is
segitett nekik, amikor arra szukseguk lett volna.  Ez viszont ertheto
volt annak veszelye miatt, meg kun belaek 44-ben meg eleg frissen elo
emleke miatt.  Vegulis forditott helyzetben, segitettek volna a zsidok a
nem-zsidokon?  Azt hiszem az o "rekordjuk" sem jobb ilyen teren, mint
masnak, sot!.  Azt hiszem Bosznia peldaja is mutatja, hogy meg az
olyannyira hibaztatni es kioktatni szereto nyugati demokraciak sem
nagyon allnak a tettek magaslatan.  Akkor miert varjak el azt egy kis
orszagtol, hogy tobb batorsagot kellett volna mutatnia egy akkori
nagyhatalommal szemben?

Visszaterve a zsidok kulonleges karpotlasara, kivancsi lennek arra, hogy
vajon azon vagyonok, amiket tobbnyire a zsido-dominalt Rakosi
rendszerben vettek el masoktol (akik kozott szinten nagy szamban voltak
zsido vagyonok!), levonodnak-e a karpotlas osszegebol.  Azert megis csak
furcsa lenne, ha mondjuk egy olyan volt AVOs ezredes, aki ugyan szinten
elvesztette csaladja uzletet, de utana meg bekoltozott egy elkobzott
villaba, most karpotlasert folyamodna azert az elveszett uzletert.

No, most aztan johetnek a reflex-szeru "antizasok".  Ez mar ugy sem
lenne uj, s en viszont vegre kiadtam magambol, ami mar regen a begyemben
volt.  Az is valami!

P.J.

Tom Angi and Chris Tomescu. Please take this to E-Mail.


> -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Thomas Tavoly + A4000 =  |  _
  -I'm in therapy for Chronic Windows Defenestration Syndrome.._ //
> ---------------------------------------------- [.sig v3.1pl9] -\X/-

Szervusztok!

I am looking for vintage info about Hungarian wines in different regions
for another mailing list. Can anybody help me? Köszönöm szépen!

best regards,
Pekka Kurki
Intellectics GesmbH
A-2551 Ezesfeld, Austria

P.S. Please rather answer with direct email than post to this group!

I am looking for a Yugoslavian newsgroup. Does somebody know any?
                Thanks
                    Gell=E9rt

In article > , 
writes:
>Amit nem ertek ebben, az a kovetkezo:
>Szinte minden vitaban, amikor valaki felhozza a zsidok aranytalanul nagy
>reszvetelet a kommunista eroszakszervezetekben, kezdve mar 1919-tol, a
>tipikus valasz az szokott lenni, hogy amit tettek azt nem mint zsidok,
>hanem magyarok tettek; zsido szarmazasuknak semmi koze hozza. 

Ez igy nem jo. Nem mint magyarok, hanem mint zsidobol lett *kommu-
nistak* tettek azt, amit tettek. A kommunista diktaturanak semmi koze
a magyarsaghoz, mint etnikumhoz. Magyarsagnak, mint etnikumnak koze
lehet a Horthy-fele a zsidotorvenyekhez, mivel M.o. fuggetlen allam volt,
de nincs koze a Szalasi-fele dolgokhoz es deportalashoz, mert mar meg-
szallt orszag voltunk, es nincs koze a kommunizmushoz sem, mert meg-
szallt orszag maradtunk.

A magyarorszagi kommunista diktaturaknak viszont rengeteg koze van
a zsido lumpen es egyeb ertelmisegiekhez. Nelkuluk nem johetett volna
letre a Tanacskoztarsasag es a Rakosi diktatura ideologus es vezetoka-
der-allomanyat is ok szolgaltattak.

>Amit viszont nem tudok elfogadni
>az az ilyen kulonleges, es csak a zsidokat megilleto karterites, mint
>amit Tamas emlitett fent.  Ilyenkor miert nem illeti oket ugyanolyan
>karterites, mint minden mas magyar allampolgart?

Megilleti oket, es magyar allampolgarkent minden kaprotlasbol kive-
hettek a reszuket, ha jogosultak voltak.

Ezt a karpotlast nagy csond lengi korbe, egyszeruen nem lehet rola ol-
vasni semmit a sajtoban. Azt sem tudom, hogy pontosan milyen rete-
get es miert karpotolnak. 
Nem fordulhat elo, hogy olyasmiert akarnak penzt kapni, amely mar a
nemet megszallas utan tortent vagy olyasmiert,  amire a nemetektol
mar megkaptak a karpotlast ?

>Visszaterve a zsidok kulonleges karpotlasara, kivancsi lennek arra, hogy
>vajon azon vagyonok, amiket tobbnyire a zsido-dominalt Rakosi
>rendszerben vettek el masoktol (akik kozott szinten nagy szamban voltak
>zsido vagyonok!), levonodnak-e a karpotlas osszegebol. 

Ezek a vagyonok beleestek az eddigi karpotlasokba, ezert megkapta min-
denki a neki jaro karpotlasi jegyeket.

>Azert megis csak
>furcsa lenne, ha mondjuk egy olyan volt AVOs ezredes, aki ugyan szinten
>elvesztette csaladja uzletet, de utana meg bekoltozott egy elkobzott
>villaba, most karpotlasert folyamodna azert az elveszett uzletert.

Furcsa, de ez igy tortent. Mivel elmaradt a jogi felelossegrevonas (vagy
alternativakent a kommunistak lampavasra valo felhuzasa) az ilyen AVOs
ezredesek (vagy gyerekeik) mar reg felmarkolta'k a nekik jaro karpotlasi
jegyeket.

Tamas

Article #26322 (26345 is last):
From: 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.romanian
Subject: re. suicide again
Date: Thu Oct  5 02:25:07 1995

>Wally wrote:
     >>For two years running the UN has declared Canada the best place in 
     >>which to live -- yet our youth kill themselves.

Christian wrote:     
     >trouble in paradise?  and how does the suicide rate of the youg 
     >indigenous folks compare to the rest of the canadian teenagers?  
     
I don't have any stats to prove any contention I might make. I do suspect
that the suicide rate for First Nations People is marginally higher than
for the general population. I feel more certain in saying that the
mortality rate is much higher for Natives; this takes in account lower
living standards (poor water/sanitation etc), cultural genocide,
rootlessness and hopelessness which leads to a very high rate of substance
abuse from Native young people. 

     >it is interesting to note that, generally speaking, the suicide      
     >rates in the economically_advanced western countries are             
     >significantly higher than for the less_developed countries.  it      
     >seems to me that as people become wealthier, they develop an         
     >"addiction" or "obsession" for material things, hence neglecting     
     >more_and_more genuine human contact and true friendship.  so they    
     >become more_and_more alone (and in spite of all superficial          
     >friendliness so pervasive in america, for instance).  this created   
     >void in the soul can actually be more harmful than poverty - at      
     >least if poor people help each other and maintain human contact.

There is probably a good element of truth to this. The times when I was
travelling through Poland and Romania, when I was invited into homes, the
hospitality was positively unrestrained. This, in spite of their (relative
to my life experience in Canada) appalling poverty, impressed me no end.
There is no such hospitality (generally speaking) among Canadians towards
foreign travellers. In Beograd I ask for directions, the young man picks
up one of my suitcases and walks with me to my destination. Unthinkable in
rich Toronto, including me. "Yeh, you go down two lights, turn left and
keep going until..." That's what you get here.

When I was eight and nine years old I delivered newspapers to homes. At
Christmas time, I noticed that it was the lower class people who gave me
larger tips than the middle class or higher.

Relative to history and to much of the world, Canadians are assured of a
full life -- 3 meals a day, shelter, health care, etc. They are
disconnected from the natural order of life-concerns -- day-to-day
survival. They are liberated, as it were, and have the time to contemplate
the meaning of their lives, something which youth indulge in vigorously.
By so doing, they are confronted with a considerable emptiness and simply
do not have sufficient reserves of imagination to fill in the emptiness to
any degree. 

     
     >as the hunchback parishioner told pastor ericsson in the film        
     >"winter light" by ingmar bergman, that jesus must have suffered      
     >worse than one can suffer in hell by knowing that all his            
     >disciples/friends have abandoned him in the most trying hours of his 
     >calvary.....being ALONE and with no true friends.....

Yes, this is hell incarnate.
     
     >so getting anything one would want could ultimately mean getting 
     >nothing at all.....
     -cristian
     
Interestingly put.

     >ps: how about some more poems?
     
Under construction.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Tom Angi ) wrote:
: ask him about the details
I asked him.
He said you swallowed the details --- whole.

Pig!
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Arpad Fabian Kovacs wrote:

....
> Can Iliescu (former Communist and current President of Rumania) fool 
> Americans?  Ceasescu was able to silence any critics for over 23 years 
> during his reign!  Now, it can be done "democratically."  In Rumania and in
> Transylvania, the favorite line is: "It is the will of the majority of 
> constituents to deny any rights for YOU!"   And we (Magyars, Saxons, 
> Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, Armenians, Mores, and Turkik people) are not asking 
> for special privileges (affirmative action etc..), just basic human 
> rights guaranteed under International laws and formally adhered to 
> by the current government.  
....


To further emphasize our Szekler friend's words, please, read again the 
comments sent in by Mr. Bela Liptak about the currently passed laws in 
Rumania.  

Regards,
Gotthard

>Rumania

>Rumania is home to the largest ethnic Hungarian community outside 
>Hungary, numbering 2.5 million. This community, long persecuted under 
>Ceausescu, has just countenanced the adoption of an education law, which 
>would abolish a centuries-old network of Hungarian language schools 
>throughout Transylvania. 

>The law was passed over the protest of all 39 ethnic Hungarian members 
>of the Rumanian parliament. The same parliament in apparent violation of 
>the Constitution has refused since 1994 to even consider an alternative 
>draft offered by the Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Rumania and 
>petitioned by 492,000 citizens of Rumania. 

>Among other provisions, the newly adopted law:
>Prescribes the forced establishment of Rumanian-language classes in each
>school of every city, town and community in the country, even where 99% 
>of a village population may be Hungarian, with a Hungarian school dating 
>back 500 years. Bans the teaching of numerous subjects in any language 
>but Rumanian, including all subjects in the vital medical, legal and 
>business professions, as well as in vocational, technical and 
>agricultural schools.
>Mandates the elimination of numerous existing Hungarian professional and
>vocational schools, established or restored through local 
>self-initiative, mainly in rural communities throughout Transylvania 
>after 1989. Precludes the possibility to maintain parochial schools, finalizin
g 
>the confiscation and nationalization of Hungarian church schools by the
>communists in the early 1950s.
>Forbids the establishment of any independent Hungarian university or 
>other institution of higher education, including restoration of the 
>famous Hungarian Bolyai University in Kolozsvar, whose 400-year tradition 
>of academic excellence was destroyed in 1959, when the school was 
>forcibly dissolved under the personal supervision of Ceausescu.

>Nationalist exclusivism is enshrined into law in Rumania, where the very
>first words of the Constitution of this multi-ethnic state define the 
>country as a unitary Rumanian nation-state.

>This nationalistic concept is implemented through laws and practices 
>which discriminate against minorities and relegate them to a status of 
>second-class citizens. Examples include a law banning the singing of any 
>alien national anthems and the public display of any foreign flags; the 
>use of show trials to selectively prosecute and imprison ethnic Hungarians 
>on bogus charges of nationalism; economic discrimination through, for 
>example, the gross under-representation of ethnic Hungarians in the 
>government agencies responsible for privatization; sharp reductions in 
>Hungarian-language TV programming; central government-ordered 
>dismantling of bilingual signs posted by democratic vote of local 
>communities.

>The Iliescu-led government not only tacitly condones, but officially 
>embraces intolerance and extremism, on both Right and Left. Last Fall 
>the successor Communist party, and two neo-fascist (openly anti-Hungarian and 
>anti-Semitic) parties, were made part of the official government 
>coalitions, with members of each party appointed to key cabinet posts.

Although I do not want to bring the whole debate to this mailing
list, I would like to make it clear that not everybody on the
list, nor all Hungarians, nor all who support Hungary share many of
Liptak Bela's principles concerning the Rights of Nations.

I also don't want anything I say hear to be taken as a lack of
appreciation for the work that Bela has done to make clear the
true nature of the Romanian government to a section of the American
public who oddly enough seem unwilling to recognize that Dec 22
so-call revolution was a coup.

Despite all my appreciation and respect for what Bela and others
have been doing, I have been finding myself increasingly annoyed
at his use of ``we'' for views I, and I suspect others, don't
share and may find anathama.

For the record:
  I don't believe in ``minority rights'', I believe in individual rights.
  I don't believe in ``majority rights'', I believe in individual rights.
  I don't believe in ``national rights'', I believe in individual rights.
  I don't believe in ``ethnical rights'', I believe in individual rights.

My principles, as well as Bela's, lead me to be appalled by Romania's
laws and policies, because they are violations of individual rights.
Additionally, I find them more appalling because the are based, de facto,
on ethnicity.

It is also perfectly natural for someone with close connections to
Hungary and magyarsag (hungarianhood?) to be more sensitive to such
violations when Hungarians are the victims.  And this sensitivity should
be used to compel us to put right what is wrong.

I wanted to support Bela's letter writing campaign, but found that all
the texts were based on the notion of ``national rights''.

Clearly when the rights of (individual) ethnic Hungarians are being
stomped on, liberal and nationalist Hungarians have a common cause.
By being aware exactly where the differences of opinion are (and they
may be very strong), and where the common cause is, a coordinated
effort can be made.

I for one will not be answering Liptak Bela's call to support the Pope's
endorsement of national rights, but will oppose it.  Nations (as distinct
from states) do exist, are an important and valuable part of the social
fabric, and I hope will continue to exist.  But rights stem either from
being human or from being a citizen of a state, and do not belong either
to nations or come from them. 

Among the rights that come from being human is the right to follow the
language and culture of your nation.

I wish the best to Bela and to those who share those beliefs.  And I
hope that he continues to use this forum as he has been.  I only request
of him that he not use the word ``we'' quite so easily when implying
support for group rights, and that others, when they read this
messages are aware that one can support the rights of Hungarians without
having to support ``Hungarian Rights''.

Jeffrey Goldberg
    Email:	
    WWW:	<http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/>;

Article 52532 of soc.culture.romanian:
From: 
Subject: yummy_yummy_tom_angi_yummy_yummy
Date: 5 Oct 1995 01:12:38 -0500
Message-ID: >
    
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>                  ###:`**~~^^^:::##:::^^^~~**':###                 
>                   #::::<""^XX>::::::<XX^"">::::#
>                 /)::::::::""":::|::::"""::::::::(\
>                 ()::__:::::::::::|::::::::::__::()
>                 ():::::---..:::/..\:::..---:::::()
>                  (:::::::::::::/...\::::::::::::)
>                   ::::::::::::{.^|^.}:::::::::::
>             $$$$$$$:::::::::(:::::::::)::::::::$$$$$$$
>              $$$$$$$::::::/:::::::::::::\:::::$$$$$$$        
>                $$$$$$::::::eeeeeeeeeeee::::::$$$$$$
>                  $$$$$::::ee| |eeee| |ee::::$$$$$
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>                          $$$$$$$::$$$$$$$                 
>                    $$$$$$$$$$$,,$$$,,,$$$$$$$$$         
>                 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$,,,@,,,,$$$$$$$$$$$$        
>             $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,,,,,,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$    
>           $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,,@,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  
>       
>     WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING 
>     
>     ---Be sure to store all blood and blood products away from your 
>     computer and diskettes when viewing this picture---

I trust our internationally-reknown literary icon will be able to handle
the situation -- I've received a report that Tomi Angi has not been HIV-
tested. If you need any back-up, give me a call.

#######################################################################

From: 
Subject: tom angi
Date: 5 Oct 1995 01:13:41 -0500
Message-ID: >

>Subject:  hates Hungarians
 (Tom Angi) wrote:     
>>This guy hates all Hungarians.
     
Christian Tomescu wrote:
     >huh??.....assuming i am talking to a normal individual, where did    
     >you get this idea from?
    
Chris, you're taking an enormous risk making such an assumption with Mr
Angi Food Cake. He gets his ideas from a half-baked burger stand on
Margaret Island.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     >>Chris Tomescu was forced to convert to Rumanianism by the Caecescu
     >>government.
     >>He was tortured and castrated.
     >>He loves to tell the story.
     >>Write him at 
     
     >hmmm....i guess my assumption above was wrong.
    
Yes. He got his information from Mr Romania Mare himself, Tudor tutu

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     >conclusion:
     >1.  m. dima has resurfaced as tom_angi, the new resident_imbecile of 
     >soc-culture-magyar.
     >2.  he is in serious need of a psychiatrist.
     >3.  he has ZERO sense_of_humor, intelligence, and wit.
     >4.  it is pointless of paying him any more attention.
     >-cristian
     
You've been reading the neo-Rakosi reports: The First Interim Report on
the Causes and Manifestations of Divergent Think Procedure Concerning the
Biological Debris Known as Tomi Angi

     >ps: this " rU_vs_rO debate" (?) is absurd.

"I love U
U love me
We're a happy family"
        - Tomi Barni Angi
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Hi people

Could anybody give me a recepie on how to make Szilvasgomboc? I have been 
craving it for years. My grabdmother used to make them by the dozen.
Let me know. Thanks.

> ========================================================================
              AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF YOUNG HUNGARIANS
                 FIATAL MAGYAROK AMERIKAI EGYESULETE
> ========================================================================


06/10/95 CHICAGOi KAVEHAZ -- Oktober 7-en, tehat holnap, a chicagoi FMAE cso- 
         portja irodalmi kavehazot rendez.  Este 7 orai kezdettel, megnyissuk  
          ajtainkat a magyar kulturanak, es vendegeink perselyeit a esemeny $7 
  
         belepodijara.  A bevetel az u.n. Ujvideki diaksegelyzo programra lesz 
 
         forditva.  Kavehaz program temaja: elszantag, elmenekules, es         
 
         a bevezeto mondatja, "Szabadon  mint az oz, es bekeben mint a galamb".
 
         Versek Papp Jozseftol, Jozsef Attilatol, Babits Mihalytol, Szugyi     
 
         Zoltantol, es Sinka Istvantol fognak majd elhangzani.  Kerjuk tamogas-
 
         sak e nemes celunket. Koszonjuk.  (Bicok Teri )       
 

---
AAYH Email:		
AAYH WWW:		http://www.aayh.org/

Janos Szamosfalvi ) wrote:

: Acts speak for themselves.   And the Ru[o]manian government has 
: provided ample evidence showing that "discrimination" is real;
: "oppression" is very subjective hence it's a rather murky issue, 
: however, usually there's no smoke without fire; "genocide" is most 
: likely a result of exaggeration.  Of course, "cultural genocide" 
: is a completely different matter.

	Hi Janos:

	I have a few points that I want to make.  First of all, most of the 
"discrimination" against ethnic Hungarian citizens of Romania that has been 
brought to our attention is really more evidence of the present regime's 
anti-democratic tendancies.  That doesn't justify them, of course, but it 
does mean that the proper way to deal with them is not on Hungarian vs. 
Romanian battle lines, but rather on democratic vs. 
neo-communist/ultra-nationalist lines.  Focusing on ethnic Hungarian 
rights to the exclussion of basic democratic rights for all Romanians, of 
whatever ethnicity, merely playes into the government's hands.
	"Cultural" genocide is a b.s. term.  Genocide means killing 
people because of their ethnicity.  Forced assimilation means forcing 
people to give up their ethnicity.  They are fundamentally different 
practices, and borrowing of the word genocide to make forced assimilation 
sound worse than it is just cheapens real genocide when and where it does 
happen.  It is important to remember that Romanian and Hungarians have to 
often been guilty of forcible assimilation of the other group, but have 
never engaged in real genocide (as opposed to the odd masacre during 
WWII) against each other.  Please, lets not confuse the two.

	A big problem that I find in dealing with forced assimilation in 
Romania today is dealing with the Joe Pannons of the world.  What Hungary 
did before 1919 was far worse than what Romania is doing today.  Yet, 
Joe, et. al. strenuously defend it.  That weakens the arguments of us 
moderates.  After all, if Hungarians post in defense of Magyarization 
last century, why is Romanianization today shameful?  Consequently, part 
of the mandatory groundwork to making ethnic Hungarians equal citizens of 
Romania is to acknowledge what some Hungarians of last century did to the 
Romanians of Transylvania was wrong, and urging that it not be repeated 
in reverse today.  Please post on that subject when it comes up.  That 
will show everyone that good people on both sides of the ethnic divide do 
feel that there are certain rights that minorities have, and that 
whatever government, Romanian or Hungarian, that violates them should be 
condemned, and that we are not dealing with Hungarian territorial ambitions.
	Differing versions of history on both sides is the most important 
impediment to reconciliation.  Therefore, at least an occasional 
willingness to look back at history, and admit that the other side has a 
point is very important.

	Alexander

hindu elf ) wrote:
: Hi people

: Could anybody give me a recepie on how to make Szilvasgomboc? I have been 
: craving it for years. My grabdmother used to make them by the dozen.
: Let me know. Thanks.                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Only by the dozen????

You cook potatoes in the skin, when it is cooked, you peel the skin off.
You mash the potatoes, add flour and a whole egg.  You work it together
and separate into fist-sized lumps.  You roll it on a wood board to
the thickness of about 1/4''.  Don't forget to flour the board and the
rolling pin otherwise the dough will stick to it.  
You cut the dough into ~2-3'' squares, place 1/2 of (pitted) plums 
in the middle of each. Mix sugar cinnamon together
and season the plum with it.  Then you fold the tips of the square over
the plum to cover it and form a little ball.
The balls are dropped into boiling water and should be boiled till they
surface. Then fish them out with a sieve.

Put bread crumbs with butter in a pan and roll those fine 'Gomboces' 
around to cover them with the crumbs.

However, you may skip the whole crumbing procedure alltogether,
and you can eat them bare-fryed.
    Yummmmmmmmmm
          <<Peter>>
          
Disclaimer:    No disclamer.

~ From:  (Kriza Gyorgy)
 

In article >,  says...

>In >  (5 )
writes:

>>The point is that the practice is still going on. 

>Is it?  Care to give some concrete examples which happened after '89?

>>Besides, a lot of Hungarian
>>peasants in Transylvania voluntarily "Romanized" before WWI and
this is 
where
>>most of the Hungarian-sounding names come from, such as Sabau,
Covaci, 
Suteu, 
>>Astalos,... , 

>Nice try.  Most people bearing those names come from Romanian
families
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>with a Hungarian ancestor, not from Hungarian families.  I have a friend,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Doru Chis, who is a very good example (he can't even tell who was the
>Hungarian ancestor in his family).


~This is exactly what is called a "Romanianized" family, is not it?

~Gyorgy

I guess if you want to call "mixed" heritage in Romania that way.
I am sure there are families in Hungary with names that have a Romanian
root (Example : Olah).  Is that a "Magyarized" family ?
I have a great great grandmother who was Hungarian by the name
Szoymos (spelling ?).  Does that make my family "Romanianized" ?

HAdrian  "Romanianizescu"

In article >,  says...

[...]
> The Hungarian census [of 1910] counted anyone who spoke Hungarian as 
>ethnic Hungarian, regardless of ethnic self-definition...

Then how do you interpret the result of the same census that about 2/3
of the ethnic Romanians in Hungary could not speak Hungarian?

Gyorgy

In article >,  says...

>In >  (5 ) writes:

>>The point is that the practice is still going on. 

>Is it?  Care to give some concrete examples which happened after '89?

>>Besides, a lot of Hungarian
>>peasants in Transylvania voluntarily "Romanized" before WWI and this is 
where
>>most of the Hungarian-sounding names come from, such as Sabau, Covaci, 
Suteu, 
>>Astalos,... , 

>Nice try.  Most people bearing those names come from Romanian families
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>with a Hungarian ancestor, not from Hungarian families.  I have a friend,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Doru Chis, who is a very good example (he can't even tell who was the
>Hungarian ancestor in his family).


This is exactly what is called a "Romanianized" family, is not it?

Gyorgy

In article >, 
 says...
>What's the next topic: is Suomi the official spelling for a country in the
>English language? Should Mexico be pronounced as "Meksiko" (as in English) 
>or
>"Meheeko" (as the people there pronounce it)? 


Majd megnezem a lehikonban, ahogy Gyapay tanar ur (tortenelem tanarom)
modta volt.