Haliho,

ibokor @ metz.une.edu.au wrote:

>To: HUNGARY @ GWUVM.GWU.EDU (Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY) @ Internet
>cc:  (bcc: John Czifra/SHI)
>From: ibokor @ METZ.UNE.EDU.AU @ Internet @ WORLDCOM
>Date: 01/12/96 09:20:34 PM CST
>Subject: Re: Magar, Magyar, Onogour, Vogul, Ostyak, and etc.
>
>John Czifra ) wrote:
>:       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>: a stopper! me thinks "maze" (i.e. corn) commeth from New World post 1500AD
>:
>"corn  1. gen. a small hard particle, a grain, as of sand, salt, gunpowder.
>      2. spec the small hard seed or fruit of a plant; now usually with
>          qualification, as barley-, pepper-
>      3. spec. the seed of the farinaceous plants; grain (locally, the
>          word is understood to denote the leading crop of the district;
>          hence in england `corn' is = wheat, in scotland = oats; in u.s.
>           as short for indian corn, it is maize.
>       4. applied to the cereal plants while growing, or while still
>          containing the grain."
>
>the shorter oxford english dictionary (1982 edition) vol i, p. 427
>
>d.a.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm the wrong Janos you want to show this to, though it's really cool to see
what the other Janos will write.

udv.,
Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com

Haliho (megint),

Now this is hillarious!!!!! It's classic, but, seriously, someone should tell
these now-it-all American reporters how to say "Taszar" and not "Tazer" (like
the stun-gun). I cringe every time I hear it.

Udv.,
Czifra Jancsi

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: HUNGARY @ GWUVM.GWU.EDU (Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY) @ Internet
cc:  (bcc: John Czifra/SHI)
From: kornai @ ALMADEN.IBM.COM (Andras Kornai) @ Internet @ WORLDCOM
Date: 01/15/96 01:33:21 PM CST
Subject: It's about time

 CLINTON DEPLOYS VOWELS TO BOSNIA

        Cities of Sjlbvdnzv, Grzny to Be First Recipients

        Before an emergency joint session of Congress yesterday, President
 Clinton announced US plans to deploy over 75,000 vowels to the war-torn
 region of Bosnia.  The deployment, the largest of its kind in American
 history, will provide the region with the critically needed letters A,E,I,O
 and U, and is hoped to render countless Bosnian names more pronounceable.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Haliho,

Finally, a totally different topic!!!

I totally agree that Hungarian sports are on the near dead side. We won't be as
dominating in swimming in the Olympics as we were 4 years ago. Egerszegi
Krisztina is not the "Kis Eger" anymore. She might have it. Darnyi Tamas is
retired. Kayak-Canoe is going to make or break the gold medal run for the
Hungarians this year because it's the only sport we almost total domination in.
I watched the World Championships on Eurosport (in Hungary) this past summer
and it was very impressive. We used to be phenominal in the Pentathalon, but
what happened?? Boxing, soccer, most track & field events, and almost all other
sports we could boast a stand out, but now......Ahem.
Take foci (soccer) for example. It's a shame to see matches with attendances of
1000, 800, and 500 for an NB-1 (first division) match??!!! The only team that
can consistantly pull them in is Fradi (Ferencvaros). They pull in over 10,000
anywhere they play. Now, they've gotten a bad rap and as a result a bad rep,
because of their hardcore fanatic fans, especially those boasting to be of the
Aryan Nation. Fradi almost suffered heavy fines and near banishment from FIFA
for a year because at a UEFA Cup match in Amsterdam, against last years winners
AFC Ajax, these Aryan Nation Fradi supporters showed up with swastikas so
forth, which especially isn't a wise thing to in Amsterdam. The team members
themselves (Fradi) had been taking up full page ads in various newspapers in
Hungary, every so often, since the summer to urge these "supporters" to leave
that stuff outside the stadium and to stop the violence.

It's a bloody shame to see this stuff go on, especially because all I've known,
since I was born is Fradi. But that stuff is not new to European football.
That's why England and English clubs have been banned so much in the 80's. As
recently as last year, the English team was nearly banned, again because of a
"friendly" in Ireland. The National Front (facist organization in England)
apparently knew about this match and bought a hefty amount of tickets for the
England vs. Ireland match to be held in Dublin. The English authorities, who
have lists and profiles on nearly every hooligan and facist group in England
(which is why you rarely hear about violence in English club football anymore),
let them slip by. The game was 0-0 and @ 15-20 minutes into the match the
referee calls a penalty against England. Before the Irish could kick the
penalty shot a melee breaks out in the stands. A good majority of the English
supporters were in the upper tier of the stadium. They started spitting on the
Irish supporters below. Fighting spilled on to the field as well. When the
supporters ran out of spit they threw bottles. When the bottles ran out they
ripped apart the benches and threw those down. As all this was going on, there
were chants of, "Death to the IRA", "Britainnia!", and so on. The Irish team
had to be escorted out by riot police. I have this on tape and I'm shocked that
the English team wasn't banned from FIFA and didn't decide to move the European
Championships somewhere else.

The Fradi supporters are copying these rituals constantly, especially at home
on Ulloi ut. God forbid the lose at home. It's a terrible site to see. They'll
tip every single car over parked next to the stadium. First they'll chant to
the opposing supporters, "Menekuljetek!!" (Runaway more or less) then do all
the damage. If you take the metro to Nepliget (where the Fradi stadium is)
you'll see what I mean. It's dark as night in the upper level because all the
lights are knocked out and they don't bother replacing them. If don't memorize
what steps lead to what street then you'll spend a good 10 minutes trying to
find out because all the signs are down.

2 years ago there was a Fradi vs. Debrecen match in Debrecen and they lost.
Fradi supporters went ape. They went into the city and started fights with
anyone and tipped over a couple trolley cars to boot. Needless to say the
locals were very mad and didn't want this to happen again. This past summer I
went to see Fradi vs. Debrecen in Debrecen. Debrecen was ready for Fradi this
year. Not since the Pope's last visit to Debrecen have I ever seen so many
police. They lined the streets with riot police. They sectioned off Fradi
supporters from each other as well.  There was a everyday FTC supporter line
and the more active supporter line. It was amazing. During the game all you
could hear was the Debrecen supporters chanting, "Buzi zold-feherek!!" "Majom
Fradistak!" and the like. Fradi lost that one as well 2-1, but there were major
incidents after the match.

I don't want to make Fradi out to be this ultra-fascist team that should be
feared, because certainly a lot of other Hungarian teams have their share of
hooligans, but Fradi being always more popular and better than even the
National team (back even in the 50's and now. I know I'll get reamed for that
statement, but I can back it up) of course they'll get the brunt of all the bad
press. It's still a shame, but until Hungary can curtail these "fans" (I don't
think they're fans) like the English have been able to do pretty well, then
Fradi will lose money and respect and Hungarian football will suffer as a
result. This is one of the reasons why Hungarian football is in sad shape.

I could go on, but I'll stop!!

Udv.,
Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com

Hajra FTC!!!

My memory could be failing me, but as far as I remember
we had 9 golds in Tokio, and ever since I am involved
with brits I can thoroughly annoy them by winning bets
via Hungary producing more medals/points than the mighty ex-empire.
However, I am fully aware that this doesn't mean enough
effort to promote mass-sport activities, only prestige
and propaganda investments - as everywhere else.
However I don't think I dare to put my money down this year.



>
>         Sadly, sport (quality of) in Hungary seems to be a bit on the naff
> side at the moment, at least compared with what sport was like before most of
> Hungary`s athletes left during/after 1956. Before `56 no one country could
> touch the Hungarians in almost any sport you could care to mention.
>
>
> Karcsi

Huh?

I AM HUNGARIAN AND A PERSONAL COMPUTER EXPERT in BOTH HARDWARE AND
SOFTWARE.  IF MY SERVICES CAN BE USED LET ME KNOW.
IN THE MEANTIME VISIT MY WEB SITE AND LEAVE ME EMAIL SUGGESTIONS ETC
ETC
GO TO WEB SITE http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dunlap
If BUSY go to
http:www.inforoute.net/users/complex/index.htm

As an American, the sight of our brave troops dropping vowels all over
Bosnia brings a tear to my eye. Bravo, ladies and gentlemen of the U.S.
Armed Forces, bravo. Or, as they say in Bosnia: Brv, Brv.
Sam Stowe

 (Stowewrite) wrote:
>As an American, the sight of our brave troops dropping vowels all over
>Bosnia brings a tear to my eye. Bravo, ladies and gentlemen of the U.S.
>Armed Forces, bravo. Or, as they say in Bosnia: Brv, Brv.
>Sam Stowe

Oh Sam!  You are soooo hopeless.  'Ladies and gentlemen' of the U.S.
Armed Forces is as oxymoronic as 'military intelligence'.

Joe Szalai

On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, Eva Durant wrote:

>
> So on balance my impression is, that in feminist ideas Hungary is
> left behind at the moment.
>

I tend to strongly agree with Eva's observation that feminism in Hungary,
as it
relates to employment and household responsibilities is for the most
part, non-existent.  This past summer I had the opportunity to take
extended leave from my job and spend 2 months
with my family in Hungary.  The general reaction I got from my male
relatives and friends was "How could your husband 'let you leave him' for
so long?"  (we don't have any children)
Their preoccupation with my "abandoning" the "female"  household duties
such as
cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. overshadowed their comprehension that
generally, most working Americans cannot take a 2 month vacation, and
that my trip was a unique opportunity.  My male relatives also had difficult
 accepting the fact that I must travel on business, sometimes frequently,
to other Hawaii islands and to the Mainland US.  I
definitely got the message that they "would not permit" their wives to do
the same.  This attitude was not limited to any particular age group -
if anything, the younger males in their 30s & 40s seemed to feel more strongly
that my solo business and vacation travel was inappropriate.
Generally, the prevailing attitude of Hungarian males in Hungary seems to
be that women are responsible for staying home with the husband
(and children, if any) and taking care of the "female" household chores.

Aloha, Nora Conroy

>In article <v01510101ad1e20a6bc98@[198.5.254.187]>, Doug Hormann
> writes:
>
>> am amused Sam.  You speak of freedom of speech, yet you come
>>unglued when someone who disagrees with your own point of view exercises
>>it.  That sees to me to be the real right wing viewpoint. (Read
>dangerous.)
>>Heaven forbit that someone like me should respond to your publicly posted
>>opinion with anything other then wholesale adoration.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Doug
>>
>>P. S.  Actually, I stopped following the Cowboys when Landry got the
>boot.
>>I hope Green Bay kicks butt tomorrow!
>>
>>Doug Hormann

>>
>>
>
>Doug, I gotta hand it to you. You're smart enough to back away from your
>initial posting, yet not quite wise enough to shut up when you've already
>made a fool of yourself. Your intial posting seems to take a great deal of
>offense at my suggesting that many Americans -- I dare say most even --
>could not find Hungary or Turkey on a map. "Not Doug Hormann," you huffily
>reply. "He's the kind of guy who could find Hungary and Turkey on a map
>even if you held it upside down and blind-folded him at the same time."
>Guess what, Doug? I wrote that posting without intending to single you out
>for international ridicule. I committed the cardinal error -- I posted it
>without realizing that Doug Hormann existed, that indeed he is a man of
>prodigious intellect who in his ripe 34 years has used that mother of a
>brain to accrue a Jim Dandy education (woe unto anyone who wows the masses
>with their own revelation of private school background, for they shall be
>accused of elitism by Dougie. That is, when he's done questioning your
>credentials for American citizenship. Your punishment for admitting a
>private school education is to have Doug Hormann fill up significant
>amounts of your hard drive with his boasting about how smart he is even
>though he never went to private school and, judging from his previous
>comments, how he didn't get into the kind of university he felt truly
>befitted his genius. For that alone, I thank God above that I attended
>public schools and a land grant university and therefore do not face the
>prospect of a Hormannal imbalance clogging up my hard drive.) and stands
>ready to find Turkey, Hungary and any other political condominium of your
>choice at a moment's notice.
>
>Now, some of you are saying, wait a minute, Sam -- how could you be
>expected to know that Doug Hormann is out there wherever it is that 34
>year-old godheads live in America? And why does he take offense at a
>statement that says many Americans can't find Hungary or Turkey on a map,
>statement that implies there are Americans who can indeed find Hungary or
>Turkey on a map, a statement that postulates, a priori, the very existence
>of Hormann-like genius among the seething American masses, a statement
>Doug himself later turns around and says is pretty much accurate? Why
>couldn't Doug, with that pendulous overhanging mass of brain tissue, just
>say to himself at the outset, when reading that statement, "Ahh, and thank
>goodness superior genetics and a struggle in the bosky groves of public
>school academe, a struggle worthy of David Copperfield himself (the
>Charles Dickens waif, not the guy supposedly boinking Claudia Schiffer),
>has rescued me from such travail of ignorance and begot the kind of
>divinity swaddled in human flesh that can pick out Hungary and Turkey on a
>map at a moment's notice without breaking a sweat."? Is this guy arrogant
>or what?
>
>No -- he is simply going about whatever business it is that those shadowy
>gnostic beings who are one step below God and a couple of big skips above
>the human tide undertake. The fault is not in Doug himself, but in our
>understanding of his Dougness. And part of being Doug apparently involves
>a ritual wherein one takes carefully qualified statements made by a
>stranger on the Internet and immediately assumes they are a rhetorical
>barb directly intended for one's own immortal flesh. These are m


Sam,

        I tried to be nice about it.  That failed, so here goes.

Do you have a brain, or does your mouth use up all the space allotted for it.

> "Not Doug Hormann," you huffily
>>reply. "He's the kind of guy who could find Hungary and Turkey on a map
>>even if you held it upside down and blind-folded him at the same time."

I did not say this in any of my posts.  Yet you put quotations around it as
if I did.  Sam you're not only stupid, your a liar as well.  Furthermore, I
never said I completed all of my education in public school, only that by
the ninth grade in public school, I could find the places you mentioned and
that most of the folks who I went to school with could too.  The fact is,
as reported in my last post, I went to Willamette University in Salem, OR.
It is a private institution and a good one.  Up to that point I attended
public schools.  I did not and cannot make any claims to superior
intellect.  Your assinine references and false quotations to the contrary.
You've not only misrepresented me and everything that I've said, but also
Mr. Pagano. A statement that he rebutted in his own reply.

I do not and cannot understand how you interpreted my brief post to mean
all those things that you have stated.  Perhaps you are one of those latent
60's types who have fumigated their brain cells with too many hits on the
bowl of happiness.  Perhaps, Sam, you believe that only a god could
possibly refute your crass pontifications with any authority.

Give it up Sam.  Perhaps this flame war is amusing to you, but I find it
kind of dumb.


Regards,

Doug Hormann

>        Sadly, sport (quality of) in Hungary seems to be a bit on the naff
>side at the moment, at least compared with what sport was like before most of
>Hungary`s athletes left during/after 1956. Before `56 no one country could
>touch the Hungarians in almost any sport you could care to mention.
>
>
>Karcsi

>If my memory serves right, the Hungarian waterpolo
>team won the olympic gold at least once before.



To Eva and Karcsi,

        Thanks for the replies.  I recall the name of the professor that
was at my school.  His full name, I believe, was Istvan Magas.  I used to
go swimming in the evenings and he was often at the pool working out.  He
swam with a ferocity that belied his usual mild temperment.   I can only
imagine what it must have been like to be an opponent (victim?) of his
team!

        Does anyone know what he's doing now?  I would like to call him
when I visit Hungary later this year.

Regards,



Doug Hormann

John Czifra wrote:

>I totally agree that Hungarian sports are on the near dead side. We won't be a
s
>dominating in swimming in the Olympics as we were 4 years ago. Egerszegi
>Krisztina is not the "Kis Eger" anymore. She might have it. Darnyi Tamas is
>retired. Kayak-Canoe is going to make or break the gold medal run for the
>Hungarians this year because it's the only sport we almost total domination in
.
>I watched the World Championships on Eurosport (in Hungary) this past summer
>and it was very impressive.

        I read recently where the Olympic Kayak-Canoe course is being
prepared on the Ocoee River.  Reports are that the course will be, to put
it mildly, challenging!  Not knowing much about kayaking I'm looking
forward to seeing some good competition.  Who are the Magyar team members
that I should be looking for?

Regards,

Doug Hormann

John Czifra writes:
> Now this is hillarious!!!!! It's classic,
I thought so too. But when I first spotted it on the net and forwarded it
to the Sesquipedalian Herald (Stanford Linguistics' rather irreverent e-mag)
they couldn't publish it because someone in the department thought somebody
might find it offensive. This tells you something about the freedom of speech
standards currently prevailing in academia, a subject considerably less
hilarious.

Andras Kornai

>
> I was raised by a single mother who held a responsible fulltime job, which
> meant that my sister and I had to take care of ourselves after school,
> which included making dinner most times.  I have a great deal of respect
> for the abilities of women, and believe they can do most non-physical tasks
> a man can.  However (most of you knew there would be a however), they questio
n
> is whether they should.  The US has among the highest if not the highest rate
 of
> juvenile delinquency in the world and our children are by far the most
 violent.
> SAT scores have been falling since the 60's (the decade of women's lib) and
 the
> sky has been falling.  The idea that a parent should be home with the kids is
> the right idea, and women by natureare better at nurturing children, so they
 are
> the natural choice (oh, i can hear the cries of outrage already!).  Maybe the

Nature Paul? For every example you give of this, i will cite my own
experience...two decent children (future prof and police officer - not
the Mark Furman type). and others. No outrage, just wondering what else
is natural in your opinion, but this a discussion for private email if
need be :-)

If I may add though, I remember lunch at a friends house, and he said,
when I suggested cleaning up before hiking in the Mecsek, that the dishes
were "noi munka". (Women's work). OH well, I did them anyway. He smiled
and watched.


> "old fashion, backwards" Hungarians are doing something better than we are -
 we
> in the west don't know everything.
>
> Paul Gelencser
>

Nora Conroy wrote:

>> So on balance my impression is, that in feminist ideas Hungary is
>> left behind at the moment.
>I tend to strongly agree with Eva's observation that feminism in Hungary,
>...
>is for the most part, non-existent.
>...
>Generally, the prevailing attitude of Hungarian males in Hungary seems to
>be that women are responsible for staying home with the husband
>(and children, if any) and taking care of the "female" household chores.

I was raised by a single mother who held a responsible fulltime job, which
meant that my sister and I had to take care of ourselves after school,
which included making dinner most times.  I have a great deal of respect
for the abilities of women, and believe they can do most non-physical tasks
a man can.  However (most of you knew there would be a however), they question
is whether they should.  The US has among the highest if not the highest rate o
f
juvenile delinquency in the world and our children are by far the most violent.
SAT scores have been falling since the 60's (the decade of women's lib) and the
sky has been falling.  The idea that a parent should be home with the kids is
the right idea, and women by natureare better at nurturing children, so they ar
e
the natural choice (oh, i can hear the cries of outrage already!).  Maybe the
"old fashion, backwards" Hungarians are doing something better than we are - we
in the west don't know everything.

Paul Gelencser

Andras Kornai wrote:

***************************************
John Czifra writes:
> Now this is hillarious!!!!! It's classic,
I thought so too. But when I first spotted it on the net and forwarded it
to the Sesquipedalian Herald (Stanford Linguistics' rather irreverent e-mag)
they couldn't publish it because someone in the department thought somebody
might find it offensive. This tells you something about the freedom of speech
standards currently prevailing in academia, a subject considerably less
hilarious.

Andras Kornai

***************************************

Amen

Paul gelencser

Of course you can make long o or i, with my method - i.e., hit
apostrophy, then the o or i or u or whatever.In article
>, 
says...
>
>At 09:00 AM 1/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>With US keyboard: ctrl+ ' or : then the letter a e i o u. This way it
puts
>>the desired accent on top. The only letter you cannot create is o" (the
long
>>version). Nora
>>
>>

I was down in PECS a couple of days ago. I understand that US seems to get some
troubles i KAPOSVAR.

How come?

Otto

In article >, zcapl74
> says:
>
>        Sadly, sport (quality of) in Hungary seems to be a bit on the naff
>side at the moment, at least compared with what sport was like before most of
>Hungary`s athletes left during/after 1956. Before `56 no one country could
>touch the Hungarians in almost any sport you could care to mention.

Dear Karcsi,

Don't forget the Magyar chess team in the Olympiads (World team tournament)
when they pipped the super-strong Soviet favourites TWICE in the last couple
of decades, or so, for the gold medals! (The exact dates escape me right
now.)

The biggest sporting memory cherished by Magyars on this side of the
Atlantic must be in football (soccer, to you Americans), Puskas and Co.
dishing out a double hiding to England: 6-3 at Wembley in 1953 and 7-1
in Budapest (1954?), England's worst ever defeat :-)

The Hungarians were robbed in the 1954 World Cup final, losing dubiously
2-3 to West Germany, a team they beat 8-3 in a previous round! The real
final of that World Cup should have been the semi-final Hungary v Brazil
(won 4-2, but also costing some injuries).

Regards,

George

George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
*********** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list ***********

Paul Gerencser rised the question of naturallity. Beside that I basically
agree with his opinion, I would have a question. Eva Durant wrote:

>"Feminist consciousness" means (to me) the awareness, that
>women should have the same ratios of creative jobs, economic/
>political power and domestic responsibilities as men.

Hopefully nobody argues about the anatomical difference of the male and female
(:-)), so if there is anatomical difference why cannot be psychological. Men
and women can have different affinity to different occupations, for example
a women can be better teacher, nurse, doctor in average than a men and a men
can be a better executor in average. I know that the feminist warriors usually
say this is only social stereotype (or whatever it's called), but I do not see
what rules out the possibility of such differences. If such differences exist
than to maintain 'the equal ratios' is senseless. I guess the best thing we can
do is providing equal opportunities to everyone and let the Nature do the rest.

Janos

In article >, zcapl74
> says:
>
>        Sadly, sport (quality of) in Hungary seems to be a bit on the naff
>side at the moment, at least compared with what sport was like before most of
>Hungary`s athletes left during/after 1956. Before `56 no one country could
>touch the Hungarians in almost any sport you could care to mention.

Although Magyar sport might have had a golden period prior to '56, is this
gloom about *naff* post '56 Magyar achievements entirely justified? Apart
from water-polo and chess, didn't a Magyar couple also win gold in the
world figure skating championship a few years ago? Perhaps there are further
recent sporting success stories that have been overlooked.

George

George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
*********** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list ***********