From the news:

>daily Cronica romana, reported on 12 September that a group of Romanian
>farmers who were apparently unaware that a NATO military exercise was
>taking place near the Transylvanian town of Sibiu (see OMRI Daily
>Digest, 11 September 1995) grabbed pitchforks and axes to rush to the
>rescue of Romanian troops. Officers reasssured the farmers and the
>exercise was able to continue. -- Michael Shafir, OMRI, Inc.

Too bad those officers calmed down the farmers.  Now we will never
know who would have won.  Darn, what a sight it must have been!  All
those patriotic farmers advancing on the NATO tanks or whatever ...
Yet another proud day in Romanian history!

Panonescu

Earlier this month, "Chris" posted this notice across many, many newsgroups
(the same ones I am now responding in order to clear the air).  He received
a threatening flame (quoted below) and e-mailed me an apology for putting
my site in danger with his overenthusiastic spam.  I am responding to
, who wrote the threatening flame to "Chris", and
to anyone else who felt "Chris'" spam invaded their newsgroups
inappropriately.


 wrote on Thu, 7 Sep 95:

"Naughty, naughty.  Spamming and misrepresentation (falsely
claiming that an advertisement is a public service announcement).
We'll see what photo.com thinks.  In the meantime, certain other
steps will be taken."

in response to "Chris'" announcement posted in early September:

"
*--PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT*--
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<URL:http://pobox.com/~wwwanderer>;
World Wide Wanderer Cyberian Bucket Shop

Hi:

I have been looking around for some cheap tickets for a wedding
that I am going to in Finland in June 1996.

*I am going to be best man!*

Anyway, I have been checking out the USENET travel
groups and haven't been able to find anything about
a really cool page I just wandered into called:

World Wide Wanderer Cyberian Bucket Shop
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<URL:http://pobox.com/~wwwanderer>;
<URL:http://www.dcwww.com/island/WWWanderer/WWWanderer_home_page.html>;

It doesn't look quite finished yet, but it looks like
it deserves a bookmark file and it looks like it may turn the
industry on its head!  Man, I hope I can find a cheap ticket to
Finland because it can be so costly travelling when all you really
need to do it get there!  I have to save for a wedding Prezzie,
you know.

So, in my small way, I'd like this thing to fly for selfish reasons!
The higher it flies the cheaper my ticket (invisible hand theory).

Anyway, this was my public service announcement for tonight and
i thusly DISCLAIM that I have any connection to this thing called
love."

________________________________________________________________________


thus, I respond to (especially) , and anyone else
upset by "Chris'" broad posting:



    "Chris" forwarded me your message with an apology for putting my site
in danger of nasty retribution with a message he posted on, probably, more
newgroups than was appropriate.

        You, , replied:

        "Naughty, naughty.  Spamming and misrepresentation (falsely
claiming that an advertisement is a public service announcement).
We'll see what photo.com thinks.  In the meantime, certain other
steps will be taken."

        Since I am not "Chris" and "Chris" is not me, I would appreciate it
if you stopped your castigations here (and perhaps refrained from using
undefined threats on the Net in the future).  i.e  - I don't expect to be
impacted by your reponse to this individual's action -  don't overreact and
soil the Net with more inappropriate behaviour.  I can't control what
enthusiastic users of my site do.  Additionally, though the spam was
probably a bit putside of accepted mores, the word "advertisement" is
probably unwarranted - my site is about sharing useful info for budget
travelers - not selling (if you checked out my site, you'd see this - stop
by).  It is service that I put up after sending a few hundred e-mails to
rec.travel users requesting tips of finding cheap flights - it's far more
efficient than cut-paste-send 20 times a day.

        I understand your concern at this individual's spam, but I'd
appreciate it if you restrained any indignant vigilanteism and refrained
from sending a horde of stone-throwning mobsters to my doorstep - or
whatever you were planning to do with your free time.

        Also, let me point out that with your response, you have joined
"Chris" in violating the norms of nettiquette.  A rather nasty (and
absurdly undefined) threat like "In the meantime, certain other steps will
be taken." is quite inappropriate for the first time someone offends with a
spam.  If "Chris" continues to spam, then you can up the vehemence your
finger-wagging, but for the first time, a firm, but polite, note is
considered appropriate.

        Come see me some time - perhaps you'll be enthusiastic, too -
though I trust you'll be able to control your excitement enough not to
fling spam.

Mark
The WWWanderer
http://pobox.com/~wwwanderer
or
http://www.dcwww.com/island/WWWanderer/WWWanderer_home_page.html

 wrote:
: In article >, Nicolae Dobos  > wrote:

: >Not even when Transylvania was 
: >occupied by Hungary were there 2.5 million Hungarians. For your 
: >information the correct number is 900,000. If you don't believe me, you 
: >are welcome to go and count them yourself.

: And where should we count you with that Hungarian name, Dobos?

: Joe

	Well it is easy to confirm:Let's hold a counting by independent
	observers from international organisations and let's see how many
	will say that they are Hungarians!I bet is much more than 900 000!
	Returning to that "Holocaust" subject: What about the real Holocausts
	of Stalin?!Who was butchering of its own (!) people in peacetime(!)!!
	Why we don't see this in the media?Maybe we don't have a free, inde-
	pendent media? You bet!What about the chinese Holocaust by Mao?
	Again, silence. Pol Pot? No takers. So it is always the jewish
	Holocaust, even after 50 (!) years.Well everyone can deduct his/her
	own opinion from these facts.It is well known idea that "History is
	written by victors".We could go on forever on this subject but it 
	would lead only bitter accusations as usual.We always should ask
	the question : Who benefits? Who did ( and do !) benefit of cutting
	up Europe a few times? What about setting up artifical borders?
	Who benefits? We all know.I don't go on now, I have to watch my
	blood pressure ( even though I'm still a youngish person).
	But it is well in mind how the life of my Grandfather and my father
	has been ruined by an invasion by people who never learn. I think
	you gathered now where I'm from and whom I'm talking.Ok, come on
	now with your version of history as you learned from your history
	books!

				Csaba Harangozo
				


	P.S.: Don't send e-mail, post here.

Marcus Stromberg ) wrote:
: Hi everybody! I'm a swede that soon will travel to Hungary, and for that
: sake I wonder how to express the very useful word "cheers" in 'magyar
: nyelv'. The word I've found so far is "Isteneltesse". Should that be used,
: or does it exists other, better words that should be used in front of
: "Isteneltesse"?
: If someone from my own, native country should read this: Jag menar ordet
: "sk}l", givetvis...
: All help will be appreciated.
: Marcus
 Albeit not much of a drinker, but "ege'sse'gedre" would be closer to 
 "cheers". Also remember "Isten. Isten" as "cheers". For a big drinking
 country Hungary does not have a uniform "prosit" or "cheers" in the
 language. 
 Cheers
 Andras

Hi everybody! I'm a swede that soon will travel to Hungary, and for that
sake I wonder how to express the very useful word "cheers" in 'magyar
nyelv'. The word I've found so far is "Isteneltesse". Should that be used,
or does it exists other, better words that should be used in front of
"Isteneltesse"?

If someone from my own, native country should read this: Jag menar ordet
"sk}l", givetvis...

All help will be appreciated.

Marcus

)

"cheers" in 'magyar
>nyelv'. The word I've found so far is "Isteneltesse". Should that be used,
>or does it exists other, better words that should be used in front of
>"Isteneltesse"?
>
>Marcus
>
)

"Isten =E9ltesse" or "Isten =E9ltessen" is used only when glasses are raised
and clinked (with alcoholic beverage) to salute each other . "Isten" means
"God" and "=B4=E9tesse(n)" means "cheers" or "keep alive". The "n" at the en=
d
is used among friends ("thee" or "thou"), without the "n"  is the formal
"cheers" among people who don't know each other very well ("you").

Janos

In article > Ken McVay OBC,
 writes:
>In January 1993, five Skinheads assaulted a young Jewish
>woman, stabbed her in the stomach and carved a swastika on her
>breast.

I don't think this is true. I haven't read such thing in the Hungarian
news. Because of the Jewish connection the Hungarian newspapers
would have been full with the story for weeks. What actually hap-
pened was that a young couple (or two men and a woman ?) thought
to be Jews were insulted at St. Gellert square (Budapest) no breast,
no carved swastica, just a minor beating at daytime, in a busy
tram station. (No one intervened, it is the big shame.)

>The atrocity was the subject of a
>debate in the Parliament, where a member, Izabella Kiraly,
>called the attackers "good sons of the Hungarian nation."

I am not sure again that she said this.  The quoted text sounds
clumsy in Hungarian. What she did say and caused  quite a big
scandal with it was "honest youths with national sentiments". 

>Skinhead attacks continued in 1994. In March, two Skinheads
>stabbed a Jewish passenger on a Budapest subway.

He was not Jew. This two guys were drunken, on the way to a foot-
ball game. In the carriage they made loud antisemitic statements.
One passenger intervened that if they had problem he was here
to set the record straight which calmed the boys a little bit
down. On leaving one of them stabbed sneakingly back from the
door with knife into his thigh. (It was a tipical Hungarian skinhead
action: coward, sneaky, miserable)

>In November,
>in the town of Gyongyos, Skinheads threw Molotov cocktails
>into a Roma family's home, burning it down.

I am not sure that they were skins because such things happens
in Hungary without skins. Usually the Hungarian habitants (of the
village) can not stand the lifestyle one or two Gipsy families any
longer and took some action against them. 

>One of the victims
>of the crime has alleged police misconduct in the handling of
>the case.

The police always misconducted these cases. The cases had not
happened if the police could handle those few criminal families
in time which even the other Gipsies don't tolerate, but the police
in Hungary is powerless, underpaid, careless so people try to fix
the problems on their own. Sometimes on a bloody way.

Tamas

Frank O'Donnell ) wrote:
: As part of work on our family tree I am researching my
: wife's family name RHEDEY.  Her grandfather, Joszef Zoltan
: Rhedey, was born in Hungary around 1876 and came to 
: America around 1904.

: He named his first son after himself, Joszef Zoltan.
                                          ^^
Should be "Jozsef"

: He named his second son Ladislaw (no middle name).
: [...]
: Since I'm sifting for any clues that will help me trace this
: family, I am curious to know if the family's choice of the
: name Ladislaw (rather than Laszlo) might suggest anything.  
: Was Ladislaw popular in one region rather than another?
: Does it reflect the flavoring or influence of an adjacent
: ethnic group?

I think Ladislaw s a slavic name (czeh, slovak or polish)

Just the question. Any other family name book offers out there received 
by mail recently? From Family Book Offer in toronto.	LH

The US should be bombing the Fundamentalist Moslems in Bosnia instead of the
Christian Serbs who are just fighting for self-determination.  

Why doesn't the US bomb the Moslem Kashmiris who have ethnicly
cleansed that state of the 100,000 Hindu Pandits instead of
supporting those Moslems and denying India's sovereinty over
J&K.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to .
If you reply to this message, your message WILL be *automatically* anonymized
and you are allocated an anon id. Read the help file to prevent this.
Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to .

.. The word I've found so far is "Isteneltesse". Should that be used,
>or does it exists other, better words that should be used in front of
>"Isteneltesse"?
>
>Marcus
>
)

"Isten =E9ltesse" or "Isten =E9ltessen" is used only when glasses are raised
and clinked (with alcoholic beverage) to salute each other . "Isten" means
"God" and "=B4=E9tesse(n)" means "cheers" or "keep alive". The "n" at the en=
d
is used among friends ("thee" or "thou"), without the "n"  is the formal
"cheers" among people who don't know each other very well ("you").

P.S. It is also used to wish "happy birthday".

Janos

As part of work on our family tree I am researching my
wife's family name RHEDEY.  Her grandfather, Joszef Zoltan
Rhedey, was born in Hungary around 1876 and came to 
America around 1904.

He named his first son after himself, Joszef Zoltan.
He named his second son Ladislaw (no middle name).

We've just received a marriage certificate from the state
of Virginia which says that his parents in Hungary were
named "L. and Annie Reday."  (He modified the spelling
of the family name from Rhedey to Reday when he came to
America because no one could pronounce it here.)  My
hunch (which is just a hunch at this point) is that he
probably named his second son after his father, so 
"L. Reday" may really be "Ladislaw Rhedey."  (I also
suspect that "Annie" may be what a Virginia court clerk
wrote down when he heard "Anna.")

Now we get to my question.  I'm told that Ladislaw is _not_
a name in contemporary usage in Hungary.  Its equivalent
is apparently Laszlo, which is popular.  (I heard somewhere
that Laszlo was the "Christianized" version of Ladislaw.)

Since I'm sifting for any clues that will help me trace this
family, I am curious to know if the family's choice of the
name Ladislaw (rather than Laszlo) might suggest anything.  
Was Ladislaw popular in one region rather than another?
Does it reflect the flavoring or influence of an adjacent
ethnic group?

Thanks for any comment,

Frank

I'm cross posting this from soc.culture.magyar to sci.lang

In article >, 
 (Janos Koplyay) writes:
|> 
|> If you and girls (you recently met) noticed your english accent and you
|> noticed the girl's english accent, how did you all know that you all had an
|> english accent? Your logic escapes me unless neither one of you had an
|> accent.

This is extremely plausible.  There are a series of studies in sociolinguistics
about accent perception.  In one study many individuals were recorded
and their accents ``judged'' by linguists.  Let's say person A and person
B were both independently judged to have very similar dialects.  (in
this case I think it was a white working class brooklyn accent, but
that isn't really important).  A was asked to listen to a tape of B,
and say what he thought about B's accent  (A who thought he spoke very
nicely, thought that B was from the gutter).  The same was true
the other way around (B thought he (B) spoke perfectly nicely, but
A spoke like an idiot.)  This wasn't just for one pair, but repeated
for pair after pair.

Another version of this is what is known to linguists as the
``fis phenomenon''.  Explefied by a young child (C) learning English
and pointing to a fish and saying to an adult (A)

C:  Look at the fis!
A:  That's a fis?
C:  No, fis
A:  Oh, fish.
C:  Yes, that's right: fis.

|> The Hungarian language I speak may be mixed with english expressions but
|> never the pronounciation because its uiqueness.  Believe what you want,
|> keep on having an english accent, however, I quit this pointless argument.
|> I honestly do not care which one of us is right or wrong

From what I have heard of Hungarians who develop English accents in Hungarian
is a change in sentence intonation, plus using less Hungarian
sentence structure.  My wife is often mistaken for a foreigner when
we return to Hungary.  What's more is that I am sometimes mistaken for
a drunk and mentally retarded Hungarian when I speak Hungarian.

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg
    Email:	
    WWW:	<http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/>;

Has anyone else got this letter on the mail? 
While on one hand I would be interested, I just don't like to buy 
anything without seeing it. How accurate is it? How many pages? Does it 
cover the distribution of the name in Hungary? 

	So anyway, what do you think?	LH

My name is Kathy Kuthy, my family name is Kuthy and my great grandfather,
Zoltan Kuthy, came to the United States at the beginning of this century
to NY and was instrumental in establishing the Hungarian Reformed Church
of America on the East Side of Manhattan as it's first Reverand.  I am
very interested in finding out more about my family history and background
as I have not had an opportunity to learn about my Hungarian roots.  Thank
you 
need2no

 wrote:
>: In article >, Nicolae Dobos  > wrote
:
>
>: >Not even when Transylvania was
>: >occupied by Hungary were there 2.5 million Hungarians. For your
>: >information the correct number is 900,000. If you don't believe me, you
>: >are welcome to go and count them yourself.
>
>    Joe
>
>        Well it is easy to confirm:Let's hold a counting by independent
>        observers from international organisations and let's see how many
>        will say that they are Hungarians! I have to watch my
>        blood pressure ( even though I'm still a youngish person).
>        But it is well in mind how the life of my Grandfather and my father
>        has been ruined by an invasion by people who never learn.
>
>
>                                Csaba Harangozo
>                                

According the latest "Facts about Hungary"  (see URL  address below)

http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/facts.html

there are 2,000,000 (two million) Hungarians in Rumania. This is an
unbiased independent international statistics . This is by far the largest
population living outside of Hungary with is estimated to be a total of
5 million (including the United States!

Anybody who claims that only  900,000 Hungarians are (oppressed ,
exploited, and ethnic cleansed) in Rumania is either totally ignorant about
European affairs  or has obviously never read a history book about the
torn-off Erdely (Transylvania) from Hungary and its majority "minority".
Any high school student would be able to find a source with the correct
information in Public Libraries.

I also have to watch my blood pressure every time I hear or read the
ridiculous Rumanian propaganda about Hungarians in Transylvania. My
ancestors lived in Erdely for over 500 years and my parents fled
Transylvania after WWII when the Rumanians started to "cleanse out"
Hungarians ("Szekely"s).

Ignorance is forgivable, stupidity isn't.

Dr Janos B.v. Koplyay

 (J.Goldberg) wrote:
>..... My wife is often mistaken for a foreigner when
>we return to Hungary.  What's more is that I am sometimes mistaken for
>a drunk and mentally retarded Hungarian when I speak Hungarian.
>  ^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
>-- 
>Jeffrey Goldberg
>    Email:	
>    WWW:	<http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/>;

Ha ha....  I too am probably thought of in the same light when I try
to speak Hungarian.  Both of my parents are from Hungary but I was born
in New Jersey   :_(

I have another angle on this:  My parents speak perfect Hungarian (from
my perspective <g>) but sometimes I think they speak circa 1950's
Hungarian!  They emigrated to the U.S. in the mid-fifties and although
they've kept in touch with relatives in Hungary and have been "home" a
number of times, some of the slang, dialect, jokes, humor, etc. they
use seems to be from that era (the jokes that I can understand can be
quite funny indeed!).  They are occasionally identified as being from
somewhere else when they visit Hungary.  Of course, I'm sure they could
speak *proper* Hungarian if/when they wanted to, depending on the
audience (I had to put that last sentence in there just in case Mom or
Dad gets a hold of this posting!).  It's just that it might not be
identified as "modern-day Hungarian".  Any opinions?

I guess maybe an analogy would be using phrases like "Swell" or
"Neat-o-Jet" today when talking to Americans who have lived in the U.S.
most of their lives.  Using the above mentioned phrases in a conversation
today would at least get you a puzzled look or two....     ;)

Szia....