This past Monday I had lunch with an acquaintance form the University of
Waterloo.  This person got her first degree from ELTE in Hungary and had
just finished working on her Masters thesis at Waterloo.

Life for her at Waterloo has not been easy.  While studying, she had
several part-time jobs, but like most university students, never seemed to
have enough money.  She remembered happier, more prosperous times in
Hungary when she was an undergrad.

Last Monday, during the general election in Canada, she made her feelings
known.  She told me that she voted for the Communist Party of Canada
(Marxist-Leninist).  This revelation surprised me because the CPC(M-L) is
going nowhere.  It's a fringe party beyond the fringe.  But that didn't
matter to her.  (By the way, Andrew Telegdi, the Hungarian-born candidate
for the Liberal party, was re-elected in Waterloo.)

What I find interesting in all this is that despite the anti-communist
propaganda and vitriol, many people in Hungary and Eastern Europe have a
memory, a collective memory, that things can be different.  They know this
from their own experience -- and political and economic theories that deny
this is useless to them -- regardless of what the Hungarian elite say.

As usual, the future remains interesting.

Joe Szalai

"The people, and the people alone, are the motive force in the making of
world history."
          --- Mao Zedong

Hi Joe:  At 04:28 PM 12/06/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:11 PM 6/11/97 -0300, Aniko Dunford wrote:
><snip>
>>Thanks Amos ... second your thoughts.... all of them ....
>>Seems that many amongst us, fail to realize and/or actually accept such
>>... (sorry Joe) ...
>
>So, you agree with Amos that Hungarians are whiners.  Do you also engage in
>blaming the victim in other areas?
>>
[...]
I agree with Amos' thoughts .... all of them.  To me, that is quite
different from blaming.

Best,
Aniko

Hi Eva!

Firstly ... I cannot take the credit for having written the text as below -
however I do agree with Amos' points (all of them) raised in that particular
post.

At 04:30 PM 6/13/97 GMT, you wrote:
>Aniko -cut-
>.  Budapest is burried under cars and stinks because of them.
>> >Why does one need a car in Budapest is beyond me. Show off, that's why.
>
>Funny you should say that. After decades of being told, that a
>country where citizens don't all own a western car is pathetic...

[...]
I most certainly never said anything of the sort either .... Nor, do I get
your intent.  Sorry ....  While on the subject though, I would dearly love
to see similar emission controls take effect in Hungary as we have had in
Canada for eons.  (This, I likely have uttered prior).  Budapest, being one
of the most amazing cities in the world to me, could greatly benefit from
implementation of such, and might well find itself to be an even more
popular tourist attraction:-).  Amos is absolutely right Eva!  Budapest is
deadly, especially in the height of summer from emissions.  Guaranteed
headache, lightheadedness, nausea in less than 20 min of being exposed.
Bpest offers limited parking, a mirage of one way streets with constant
traffic jams, and likely one of the best transit systems around.  In short
 .... Amos' stated facts are right - as for his expressed opinion "Show off,
etc" ... he is entitled to it, as are we all .. no?

Best, Aniko

I don't know the answer to Joe Szalai's question -- "is Hungary
exporting Communists?" -- but I think it is an excellent idea.
I believe the target for exporting Communists should be doubled
in the next Five Year Plan.  Waterloo is fine, but if you know of
a place a little farther off, that would be even better.

-----
Gabor Fencsik

Joe Szalai writes:

> If I were to invest, it would only be in companies that are ethical.
> Unfortunately, ethics in business is an oxymoron -- almost without
> exception.  It seems to be the nature of the beast.

Some day I too would like to be a holy man like Joe.  Is that too much
to ask for?  Perhaps it is.  Perhaps I am overly ambitious.  But I can
at least dream about it, can't I?  Maybe (just maybe) if I keep working
on it I can do it.  I just need to figure out where to start.  Maybe Joe
can help me figure it out.  Maybe I can start small, and work my way up
the holiness scale.  Let' say Joe's holiness score is 100, and one of
these days (if I play my cards right)  I could work my score up to 33.
Then I could die a happy man.  May not go to the same place the guys
and gals with a perfect score go, but still die a happy man, knowing
that at least I tried.

-----
Gabor Fencsik

Gabor Fencsik wrote:
>
> Joe Szalai writes:
>
> > If I were to invest, it would only be in companies that are ethical.
> > Unfortunately, ethics in business is an oxymoron -- almost without
> > exception.  It seems to be the nature of the beast.
>
> Some day I too would like to be a holy man like Joe.  Is that too much
> to ask for?  Perhaps it is.  Perhaps I am overly ambitious.  But I can
> at least dream about it, can't I?  Maybe (just maybe) if I keep working
> on it I can do it.  I just need to figure out where to start.  Maybe Joe
> can help me figure it out.  Maybe I can start small, and work my way up

   Sorry, Gabor. He is not interested in such holiness. You will have to
find your own way on this. But if you really care as much as you say you
do, you shouldn't rely on pat, right wing answers about the way to holi-
ness. Such views are primary causes for holiness rejection.  Besides, if
you care enough, you'll find "the way".  And as a reward,  Joe will then
give you the the spirit of the real guides:  Lenin and Mao.  With such a
combination you will  have the tools to save  the world from corporatism
and show Hungary the way to ethical rebirth.

> the holiness scale.  Let' say Joe's holiness score is 100, and one of
> these days (if I play my cards right)  I could work my score up to 33.
> Then I could die a happy man.  May not go to the same place the guys
> and gals with a perfect score go, but still die a happy man, knowing
> that at least I tried.

   As things stand,  Gabor,  this is your  only salvation.  There is no
predestination here, you'll have to work for it - hard.
                                                          Amos

---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:    (Kimberly Myers)
To:     
Date: 97-06-13 08:21:58 EDT

In an effort to bring together people interested in Hungarian Folk
Traditions,
the Hungarian American Association created a new listserve, FOLKLOR.  The
intention is to reach people all over the world who are mutually interested
in
this topic.

We are pleased to report that since its inception we had an overwhelming
response, thus proving FOLKLOR's usefulness.

website:   http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/Folklor

---
[In English & Hungarian]

        "HUNGARIAN FOLKLORE" ----- "MAGYAR  FOLKLOR"

You are invited to join the Hungarian Folklore Listserve!
)

As a member you can discuss topics related to Hungarian folk culture with
others
interested in this subject via e-mail. This listserve can reach only those
subscribed to .

Members will include folklorists; professional and amateur dancers,
choreographers, and musicians; and dance group leaders/artistic directors.
 As a
member you would also have the privilege to announce your group or ensemble's
events including concerts, performances, tanchazes, and camps.  These
announcements can be made easily by sending an e-mail to the following
listserve
address:  .

To promote Hungarian folk culture, we encourage your participation and
contributions. Please welcome others with similar interests to subscribe to
FOLKLOR !


To subscribe to FOLKLOR either:


- send e-mail to:       
in the body text type:  subscribe folklor [your e-mail address is not needed]

OR

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click on subscribe link

OR

- reply to Hungarian Folklore Informations: 


        Hungarian American Association at the University of Maryland

WWW:                    http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/Folklor

MAGYAR FOLKLOR

Meghivjuk, hogy csatlakozzon a Magyar Folklor listara!
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Tagkent elektronikus levelezessel vitathat meg a magyar nepi kulturaval
kapcsolatos temakat az ezirant erdeklodokkel.

Ehhez a szerverhez csak azoknak lesz hozzaferesuk, akik jelentkeznek a
 cimen.

A tagok kozott neprajzszakertok, hivatasos- es amator tancosok,
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zeneszek, tanccsoport-vezetok, muveszeti vezetok lesznek. Tagkent az a
kivaltsaga is lesz, hogy kihirdesse csoportja vagy egyuttese esemenyeit,
beleertve koncerteket, fellepeseket, tanchazakat es taborokat.

Ezeket a musorokat konnyen hirdetheti elektronikus levelet kuldve a kovetkezo
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Buzditjuk a magyar folklor fellenditeseben valo resztvetelre es
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Kerjuk, hivjon masokat is, akiknek hasonlo az erdeklodesuk, hogy iratkozzanak
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A FOLKLOR-ra valo feliratkozas:

- irjon e-mailt a kovetkezo cimre: 

A szovegmezobe irja be: folklor subscribe (az On e-mail cimet
nem kell beirni.)

vagy

- latogassa meg a Magyar Folklor honlapjat:
http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/Folklor es klik-eljen a feliratkozas linkre

vagy

- irjon Magyar Folklor Informacio: 

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WWW:                    http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/Folklor
WWW:                    http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/Tisza

J.Szalai wrote:

>What I find interesting in all this is that despite the anti-communist
>propaganda and vitriol, many people in Hungary and Eastern Europe have a
>memory, a collective memory, that things can be different.  They know this
>from their own experience -- and political and economic theories that deny
>this is useless to them -- regardless of what the Hungarian elite say.

This is interesting. I thought that the 'modern' communists are actually
denying any relationship, connection with the 'existing' (or more accurately
existed) socialism. They keep saying, as Eva Durant did on this list, that
it has nothing to do with the 'REAL' one (which is still about to come).
Now, at least according to Joe, we should have nostalgy for that bad, distorted
pseudo-socialism?!?

J.Zs

At 10:55 AM 6/7/97 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>In the "World Economic Outlook" (May 1997), published by the International
>Monetary Fund (by far my favourite organization, ... NOT!)

        Not surprisingly the Hungarian right has a very similar attitude
toward the IMF. Their favorite bogey. You and they have a lot in common, it
seems. ESB

At 08:58 AM 6/12/97 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>>He'd be even happier if someone put him where his ideas are: into a grave.
>
>Why don't we just burn his books?

        Well, I don't think that the world would have been much poorer if he
had never written them. Perhaps a great deal happier. ESB

At 08:51 AM 6/12/97 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>At 10:11 PM 6/11/97 -0300, Aniko Dunford wrote:
>
><snip>
>>Thanks Amos ... second your thoughts.... all of them ....
>>
>>Seems that many amongst us, fail to realize and/or actually accept such
>>... (sorry Joe) ...
>
>So, you agree with Amos that Hungarians are whiners.  Do you also engage in
>blaming the victim in other areas?

        Maybe not whiners, but Hungarians are known for their pessimism.
Even when good economic news comes, like right now, most people keep
insisting that it is simply not true. ESB

At 09:40 PM 6/11/97 -0400, Gabor Farkas wrote:
>At 01:47 PM 6/11/97 -0400, Charlie Vamossy wrote:
>
>>Good old Vlagyimir Iljics...  he'd be happy to know at least one person
>>still remembers him well enough to quote him.
>
>He'd be even happier if someone put him where his ideas are: into a grave.

        The latest: Yeltsin is proposing a referendum on the topic. Let's
hope that they will have the good sense of putting him into a grave where he
wanted to be with his wife and family. ESB

Aniko -cut-
 .  Budapest is burried under cars and stinks because of them.
> >Why does one need a car in Budapest is beyond me. Show off, that's why.


Funny you should say that. After decades of being told, that a
country where citizens don't all own a western car is pathetic...