Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
3 Security Alternatives in Central Europe (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
5 APPLY FOR THE USA VISA LOTTERY (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
6 After Doomsday (mind)  568 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: NATO, the USA and Ukraine * Other considerations (mind)  39 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: peace (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: George Soros (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: LE HUNS OR LE MONGOLS? (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Helen M. Szablya (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
17 Budapest condo forsale (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind)  60 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: Looking for Hungarian-English Dictionary (mind)  33 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: NATO, the USA and Ukraine * Other considerations (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: MONGOLS, short version (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
24 !INTERNATIONAL CALLING 25 CENTS/MIN! (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: APPLY FOR THE USA VISA LOTTERY (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: RT765, the gutless bastard (mind)  599 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: American scams made it to Hungary (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
28 Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind)  44 sor     (cikkei)
29 Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
30 NEWS FROM MONGOLIA (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
31 Re: FEL MAGYARS Was: LE HUNS OR LE MONGOLS ? (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
32 Re: Igy irnak o"k (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
33 Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
34 RE: Igy irnak o"k (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
35 Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
36 Re: Közvetlen demokrácia (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
37 Re: APPLY FOR THE USA VISA LOTTERY (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
38 Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
39 Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
40 Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
41 Italian language course in beautiful medieval city of B (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Peter Aradi > wrote .....


Majdnem elfelejtettem.  Az uzenetem fopontja nem az volt, hogy a Clinton
nem a legkorrektebb ember.  Amerikaiaknak a fele eggyet ert velem.  A masik
fele, es ugy latszik Te, nem.  Ugy latszik, hogy Te a demokratakat
partolod, en meg a republikanusokat.  Miert ne?

Azt akartam mondani, hogy ha egy amerikai elnokot meg lehet venni, mennyire
jobban kell vigyazni Magyarorszagon!

Udv: Istvan
+ - Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
>May I say, that the Hungarian roots of Soros are not very deep
>in the ground, because he is jewish. So he's one THING Hungarians
>don't have to be ashamed of...
>David "Dave" Litkey

Many Hungarian Jews'roots are much deeper than some non-Jews'.  I don't 
understand why Soros is constantly attacked only because he gives a lot 
of aid all over the world.  And I don't understand why Soros - as well as 
 Sarlos - are giving so much aid to Hungary when all the thanks they get 
are antisemitic attacks!

+ - Security Alternatives in Central Europe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Information NO. 2

Res publica, 
association for information

Prague, March 1997

has great pleasure in inviting you
to the international seminary
Security Alternatives in Central Europe

The purpose of the seminary is reflection on the prospects 
and searches for alternatives, making possible assurance 
of the security not only of the Czech Republic, but also 
of her neighbours and the whole area in a situation following 
changes occurred in 1989 and further development, comprending 
the context with the now assumed expansion of NATO.

Prague, Czech Republic
9-10 April, 1997
QED, Štepanská 18, Prague 1

Co-organizer of the seminary is the magazine Eurojournale, 
a monthly for development of trade and international 
relations (Czech Republic) and Nino Pasti Foundation (Italy).
+ - Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

"Istvan Lippai" > wrote:
>I second it.  She is one classy lady.  I am glad she is on our side.  How
>about declaring her and honorary Hungarian?

By all means. She, probably, will value it.
+ - APPLY FOR THE USA VISA LOTTERY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

+ - After Doomsday (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Copyright: Contra Publishing Co. and Steen Hjortsoe, 1997.
Copying is allowed for non-commercial purposes.

The implementation of the coming global revolution

The Contribution from Europe and Japan

Counteracting the persistent Influence from the American and Russian Intelligen
ce Tyrannies after Doomsday and building a new world

by Steen Hjortsoe

Dedicated to those who long for the 21st century

1.	Introduction

After Doomsday, we shall have to find our bearings looking back and ahead by tu
rns. During the first three years after Doomsday, our civilization is going to 
face and delve deeply into the causes and progress of the two intelligence tyra
nnies, the American and the Russian, who divided and dominated the world during
 the preceding 35 years. At the same time, the world must implement immediate, 
revolutionary measures (1), develop new political structures, convert military 
expenses into investments in civilian infrastructure, and erect several new con
structions worldwide, counteracting while dismantling the immensely strong and 
persistent influence from the American and Russian intelligence communities and
 last but not least from NATO.

The fear of the Third World War has always been the pivot round which the alrea
dy defunct Warsaw Pact and the still existing NATO have been revolving. After t
he Third World War, time has consequently come to dissolve the remaining combat
ant, NATO. 

There are three other, equally cogent reasons, however, to insist on the dissol
ution of NATO now. 

Firstly, the simple fact that Western Europe and USA do not now have any enemie
s of the stature that justifies an organisation of NATO's size and complexity.

Secondly, the main reason why NATO was not dissolved simultaneously with the di
ssolution of the Warsaw Pact in 1990 is the continuing unstable political condi
tions in Russia. Eastern Europe is quite simply afraid that a Russia regaining 
strength at some time in the future would want to and be capable of dominating 
Eastern Europe once again. 

Therefore, the East European nations signify unambiguously that they seek the f
eeling of security in the West European and American embrace. What this pursuit
 amounts to is the replacement of an old tyranny with another, bigger, and more
 inscrutable one. In so doing, they contribute themselves to the perpetuation o
f the many-headed NATO monster, moved by their fear and by too little understan
ding of the true inwardness, the core identity of NATO, which is the day-and-ni
ght enslaving practices of the Western nations effected via American satellites
 and other electronic channels controlled from the citadel of the intelligence 
tyranny. This conduces to create an illusion of a continued raison d'ętre of NA
TO in our civilization. NATO does not have this reason for existing and should,
 consequently, be dissolved.

Thirdly, after the dissolution of the mastodontic and in its core deeply crimin
al NATO, it is near at hand to imagine the security needs of European, American
 and other nations far better complied with and the world's security problems f
ar more precisely defined, addressed and solved through carefully balanced agre
ements between smaller, newly established and blameless civilian and military b

Never more allowing (and realizing they never had the right to allow) the sexua
l assault and torture of their citizens committed by NATO employees in hundreds
 of thousands of cases, small countries like the Scandinavian and the Baltic of
 approximately the same size could create a new security cooperation with the n
ecessary extensions to Europe and elsewhere if required (e.g. to other small co
untries in other parts of the world) according to the following two principles 
conformable to the identity of these countries, "birds of a feather flock toget
her" and "just enough security" - while rejecting the overgrown, over-dimension
ed accumulation of power in NATO leading almost by itself to distorted, inappro
priate applications. 

Such applications, e.g. resulting from cooperation with the American gathering,
 processing, and acting on intelligence, transgress the original objective and 
scope of NATO while obviously implying the transmogrification of NATO to a plat
form for the worldembracing expansion of American power giving USA a dominating
 position over potential foes - and allies (2).

In the transition period during the dismantling and dissolution of NATO, assumi
ng that USA has just the right size to fend for itself, a new European West Uni
on purified of criminal elements and with no American participation could be fo
rmed by Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc. - also countries of 
approximately the same size. A cooperation between the Scandinavian-Baltic secu
rity system and the new European West Union might be appropriate in several cas
es being desired by both organisations. In a number of scenarios they might be 
joined by an independent East European security system. 

In case of a future extraneous threat against Europe, e.g. manifesting itself a
s compre-hensive sexual "research", economic espionage/sabotage or a sudden con
spicuous deterioration of European research and development efforts in strategi
c fields effected via American, Russian or Chinese satellites, it could be imag
ined that the three (or possibly more than three) European security systems wou
ld join their efforts and counteract in unison.

Anyhow, it is indispensable for the success of the coming European security sys
tems that Europe construct and launch its own satellites and carry out its own 
space research in the future.

Along with the dissolution of NATO, the Scandinavian-Baltic security cooperatio
n will probably be far more acceptable to Russia than the inclusion of the Balt
ic nations into NATO. Whether the reduction in the American hold of Europe will
 also be acceptable to USA is quite another matter. It will certainly be tolera
ble to my country, Denmark.

2. Building a platform for a new world: four new constructions

In the relation between Russia and the rest of Europe, we need the opposite of 
fear and difficult communications. Something new and different from NATO is req
uired, since a new era has dawned upon the earth, initiatives and measures whic
h are far more tangible than amiable words and vague, well-intentioned projects
. Based on the superior principle of transfer of investments from military inst
allations to civilian infrastructure,  I propose the following construction pro
jects, along with the abandonment of the plans of inclusion into NATO of the Ea
stern European countries:

2.1.	The Construction of the Moscow-Paris High-Speed Railway. 

In 1997, it takes 44 - forty-four - hours to travel from Paris to Moscow by tra
in. With the Moscow-Paris high-speed train carrying passengers and/or express g
oods travelling in 2007 at an average speed of 450 km/h between 5-minute stops 
in Minsk, Warsaw, Berlin, and Cologne, the same distance (approx. 2,700 km) wil
l be covered in approx. 6˝ hours. 

The political and technical basis of this solution might be an important French
 contribution to a further development of the German magnetic levitation (magle
v) train which according to plan will soon commute in less than an hour from Be
rlin to Hamburg - and vice versa. 

Beyond locating itself comfortably in the available niche between car and air t
ransport, the Paris-Moscow high-speed railway will have un-dreamt of consequenc
es for the cooperation and interdependency between Eastern and Western Europe.
This day-to-day cooperation which might seem an interesting vision today, may b
e an indispensable necessity in 2007 not to speak of 2017 when the economic and
 technological competition from the more than twice as populous China will make
 itself heavily felt. It might constitute the sine qua non of Europe's appearan
ce as a coherent, competitive continent on a par with North America, South Amer
ica, China, and India and a somewhat slower developing Africa - which seems to 
be what the world is heading towards.

The construction of the Moscow-Paris high-speed railway represents together wit
h the construction of the European Ring Connection below a trend towards both g
reater technological sophistication and greater ease of intercourse between the
 European peoples.

 2.2	The Construction of the European Ring Connection. 

The idea of a combined high-speed railway and motor road joining the neighbours
 of Germany in a European ring structure is, negatively, based on the fact of t
he frequent traffic congestions in Germany, which will undoubtedly continue, fu
rther on the overcrowded air space above Central Europe, and, positively, on th
e idea of "sewing together" Eastern Europe with Western Europe, Scandinavia wit
h Southern Europe. 

Starting with two "legs" from Szczecin and Gdansk joining each other in Poznan,
 I propose to proceed to Wroclaw, carrying the routing further through the Carp
athians to Brno where a "leg" from Prague will lead into the main highway, furt
her to Bratislava, where one "leg" from Vienna and another from Budapest will j
oin; then pushing further south to Zagreb, and finally going west to Ljubljana 
to finish in the North Italian Udine. From there, the ring will be closed by th
e ongoing North Italian and French high-speed railway projects. 

The European Ring Connection will require large construction works in Poland, i
n the Czech and the Slovak Republics, in Hungary, Croatia, and Slovenia and the
 construction in the Northern part of the Ring, in Denmark, of two large high-s
peed catamaran terminals, one in Esbjerg for high-speed connection to Amsterdam
 and London, and the other in Copenhagen establishing the high-speed connection
 to Szczecin (Swinouscie) and Gdansk (and via Gdansk to catamaran terminals in 
Klaipeda, Lithuania and Liepaja, Latvia).   

When these construction works are finished, Europe will have at its disposal a 
complete high-speed Ring Connection round Germany. The high financing costs of 
the European Ring Connection should be seen in the light of shrinking military 
expenses while being alleviated by constructing it simultaneously with the Mosc
ow-Paris high-speed railway - or perhaps even better: displaced a year or two -
 using the same research and development crews and facilities, construction ele
ments and manufacturing processes while avoiding double effort. 

A probable off-spin may be considerable earnings from export orders for know-ho
w and machinery placed by parts of the world wanting to catch up with the emana
ting highly efficient European infrastructure network.

2.3	The Meeting Between Two Giants: integrating the Internet and the multimedia
 mega-bookstore in the year 2000

The multimedia mega-bookstore is a new, not yet existing 10-20-storeyed high-ri
se building with a versatile exploitation of visual and auditory media, flat-sc
reen technology and the videoconferencing techniques of the internet by 2000. T
he experts agree that In three years, the Internet will be much more advanced a
nd disseminated than and very different from the present Internet. 2000-2003, t
he global Internet featuring a diversity of videoconferencing techniques will m
eet its match, a developing worldembracing system of multimedia mega-bookstores
, designed for such an integration.

The integration appears a political necessity due to the established failure fo
r the awareness of the general public to correctly estimate and respond to the 
American and Russian military intelligence tyrannies, who succeeded completely 
in dominating the world without mentionable civilian resistance for 35 years.

The multimedia mega-bookstore (the mmm-bookstore) is also a potential business 
opportunity as shown by the Japanese experience, in Tokyo, of the viability of 
very large (traditional) bookstores like the six-storeyed Sanseido in Kanda and
 Kinokunya in Shinjuku with 30,000 customers, who throng, every day, to get hol
d of the books they want to buy. Obviously, Tokyo could sustain one or two mmm-
bookstores several times the size of Kinokunya, each accommodating say 50,000 t
o 80,000 daily customers (excluding the postal order and internet customers). 

This is not immediately very important to the global reality as a whole but see
ms in the first place merely an interesting perspective for some very big and r
ich business groups to become even richer. 

Now, Tokyo is certainly not the only big city in the world that can sustain one
 or two mmm-bookstores. Actually, the impact of this new type of building on th
e world opinion and on the state and level of information of the global communi
ty does only become really interesting and important when it is realized global
ly, in a system of world cities communicating with each other while exchanging 
information for (to some extent localized) set-ups and exhibitions about global
 political issues displayed simultaneously. Further it is certainly not a law o
f nature that the ownership of such new high-rise buildings must be restricted 
to just a few rich persons. 
On the contrary, very soon after Doomsday, the civilian society all over the wo
rld will feel the necessity of catching up with the privileged and usurped info
rmation position of the military intelligence communities and of NATO while est
ablishing at the same time the conspicuous lack of will and ability on the part
 of the "fourth power", the tv companies, the radio stations and the press to i
nform the civilian society properly about the coarse and disgusting perpetratio
ns which were rampant 1962-1997.

In this context, I expect a particularly intense and in-depth criticism of the 
two foci of the global military intelligence tyranny imposed on us all, of the 
tyrannic descendants of the American and Russian victors of World War II, exert
ed by large intellectual (but hardly by accomplice military !) circles in Japan
 and Germany, the two countries who have been told for decades that they were w
ar-crime nations. 

In history, nothing is permanent, and I believe the intellectual Japan and Germ
any with great vigour and talent will demonstrate to the world that it is neith
er misplaced nor unfair to pass the buck on to the nations they received it fro
m. Therefore, I imagine Tokyo and Berlin, an Asian and a European metropolis, a
s the two luminous centres par excellence in a system of world cities wanting t
o explore and emphasize the many possibilities of psychological and political r
esistance and liberation which the first mmm-bookstores designed by brilliant J
apanese and German architects and opening their doors to the general public by 
2000-2001 will be excellently suitable to display. 

Reading some months ago in the English newspaper The Independent a review of a 
book about German and Japanese war crimes during WW II and the ensuing "careers
" of Germany and Japan, I recall the following headline:"The Remarkable Careers
 of Germany and Japan". The reviewer's elegant (and arrogant) line of course al
ludes to the morally alarming fact that after having committed their abominable
 war crimes during WW II, Germany and Japan both surrendered themselves whole-h
eartedly to the economic development of their countries and occupied themselves
 relatively sparsely with the atrocities their military personnel had just comm

On the day the English reviewer's article was published featuring the to (a sup
-posedly large proportion of) English readers familiarly and reassuringly sharp
 localization of Evil in this world, England, with its special relationship to 
USA, had as one of the worst NATO-countries been engaged in war crimes, includi
ng murder (3), severe torture, rape, and what not against its own defenceless c
ivilian population and against the civilian population in other NATO-countries 
every day and night for more than 30 years.

And precisely because of the fact that German and Japanese engineers, doctors a
nd psychologists (on a par with experts from other nations) have themselves bee
n encouraged to participate in Russian (in the case of East Germany) and Americ
an war crimes committed via military satellites, I trust the Japanese and Germa
n preoccupation with the elapsed period in Japanese and German fiction and non-
fiction literature, movies and in the coming mmm-bookstores in Tokyo and Berlin
 will as a matter of course also avoid the waste of time of pleading totally in
nocent and will include the self-criticism which makes a genuine psychological 
independence from the two nations possible which won a war more than half a cen
tury ago and pleaded moral victors - for how long and with what right ?

Even in cities considerably smaller than Tokyo and Berlin, popular civilian ini
tiatives all over the world proceeding outside the existing narrow and accompli
ce political and commercial structures and communication channels can be realiz
ed among others by dissolving the framework of the traditional bookstore while 
adding a row of eye-opening new didactic instruments for easy instruction and g
uidance of the general public into the new, uncensored reality.

I propose the basic unit in several departments of the mmm-bookstore to be buil
t up by the didactically rewarding tension between at one extreme the presence 
of living human beings over visual and auditory media and technology till the b
ook at the other extreme. By way of illustration, I imagine the following two b
asic units (there may be more) in the psychology department - which also elucid
ate the large requirements of floor space in the full-grown mmm-bookstore :

a. Sexology (this unit may have a restricted audience access - but it may also 
have videoconferencing access from the internet).

Four persons - two men and two women - stay in two connected rooms staged in th
e psychology department of the mmm-bookstore. The two rooms contain installatio
ns which are capable of conveying microwaves into the bodies of the two couples
 who may be married to each other. They have all given their consent in advance
 to initiate and discontinue or fulfil sexual behaviour when and if they feel a
n urge to do so. Initially, they are fully dressed. 

The audience - the customers in the mmm-bookstore - are seated in a small theat
er looking through one-way transparent mirrors into the two rooms. One or two o
perators who are medical doctors or psychologists specialising in sexology are 
staying among the audience speaking messages in a microphone which the audience
 can hear and understand (while spoken, the messages will also be captured by a
 speech recognition programme and the words displayed on a large screen - maybe
 the one-way transparent mirror - before the audience) whereas the two couples 
staying behind the large one-way transparent mirrors can only hear the messages
 subliminally, i.e. they register the messages and are influenced by them, but 
they are not aware of hearing any definite messages. After some time, the audie
nce will witness that the test persons clearly respond to the messages and beha
ve accordingly.

The behaviour of the test persons may be recorded on DVD's or video tapes which
 include the messages spoken by the sexologists, after which the DVD's or video
 tapes may be sold to the audience.

The displayed one-way subliminal microwave messages is a simplified imitation b
y lawful means of the criminal influence 1962-1997 on millions of selected unwi
tting civilian individuals and groups of people by military psychologists and o
fficers via military satellites.

b. Brain transillumination and telepathy. (This unit ought to have videoconfere
ncing access from the internet too).

A theater arranged like the above. 6-8 persons stay in one large, or two minor 
rooms. The human guinea pigs have been fully informed about the experiment and 
accepted to participate. A microwave holographic system not noted by the test p
ersons transilluminates the brain of the test person the neuropsychologist sele
cts. He may select one test person after another showing on a large digital scr
een among the audience that it is possible to extract definite semantic pattern
s (read the thoughts) from the brain of any human being. 

The semantic patterns are processed by a computer. The output displayed on the 
large digital screen is hunches, ideas, thoughts and visions from the person's 
ongoing mentation which are immediately translated into more or less rudimentar
y words or pictures. The audience sees on the screen exactly what the test pers
on is thinking at the moment. There may be a facility which makes it possible t
o ask a given test person what he is thinking at a given time. If he responds h
onestly there will always be complete coincidence between what he says he is th
inking and the words or pictures the audience can read or see on the screen.

Like the above, this unit must be amply stocked with more audiovisual material 
on electronic telepathy and brain science, video cassettes, CD's, DVD's, and In
ternet 	screen displays showing related material, plus books about remote neura
l monitoring and electronic telepathy including books about the criminal milita
ry monitoring of the private thoughts and brain states of millions of civilian 
citizens 1962-1997.

The department of foreign languages on the spacious ground floor must of course
 have direct audiovisual access to a large number of countries globally via the
 efficient Internet videoconferencing techniques which will be current by 2000.

Capable interior designers will achieve amazing aesthetic conquests through a c
arefully calculated mixture of attractive, easy-to-grasp arrangements of large 
numbers of small and large display screens in different shapes profiting of the
 flat-screen technology of the year 2000 - and a few "information-dead" zones w
ith arm-chairs, plants, maybe a small fountain basin, and opportunity to read.

A special department may feature and demonstrate (simplified) satellite 3-D mul
ti-resolution zooming techniques (4) focusing with an increasingly fine resolut
ion first on cities, then on public squares, further a definite street selected
 from a map of the city, a definite house in the street, and finally - what a s
hock to the audience ! - focussing on humans inside the house which may turn ou
t to be the clearly visible customers in a similar department in an mmm-Booksto
re in another country agreed in advance with the informed customers and the nat
ion in question. 

Under criminal conditions (like looking inside civilian buildings while influen
cing unwitting inmates with subliminal microwave messages) this technique has b
een used by NATO and military intelligence satellites for decades.

Such facilities at the disposal of the general public will greatly ease the pro
cess of getting familiar with the gist of the enormous knowledge explosion whic
h has taken place within the Russian and American military intelligence communi
ties and NATO.

This huge database now suddenly erupts into the civilian society and there is a
 dire need of making it graphic and visual to the general public, a highly resp
onsible task which the traditional bookstore is hardly suitable to accommodate.

Further, the desirable high information level in the civilian society should be
 considered part of the future - civil - preparedness against possible similar,
 future attacks. I trust that mmm-bookstores, which can be conceived and design
ed as political and strategic assets for the civilian sector, in many world cit
ies will get wide support by and a firm anchoring in the civilian society.

2.4	The Probable Construction of New World History Institutes.

In contradistinction to the three above-mentioned new constructions, which are 
essentially political matters to be decided by ourselves, the possible construc
tion, in several cities worldwide, of new World History Institutes (WHI-buildin
gs) is highly speculative based on the vision of a - conjectured - transfer fro
m the ETI to ourselves of the huge database of our own world history meticulous
ly recorded by the ETI throughout thousands of years. 

Our meeting with the ETI on Doomsday did only occur after a 35-year period of i
ntense self-studies. "Know thyself", Socrates said, though he probably never dr
eamt of carrying man's proper study to these - criminal - excesses. It appears 
probable that the information transfer from an ETI to us, which naďvely could b
e considered the main asset by achieving ETI contact at all, will not be restri
cted to the transfer of advanced technical and biological knowledge. On the con
trary, it is imaginable that the conjectured transfer will put the main weight 
on the ETI's systematic recording of our own prehistory and history while illum
inating the ETI's interventions in our history.
"There is still much that I could say to you, but the burden would be too great
 for you now". (Jesus to his disciples, John 16:12, (5)). The idea is obviously
, that at a later time - I suggest after Doomsday - we shall be able to bear th
e burden of this knowledge - which is hardly advanced mathematics, physics, or 
In the event this transfer from the ETI to ourselves of recordings of our own h
istory actually occurs, I imagine the WHI building in my native Copenhagen situ
ated at the Town Hall Square facing the Town Hall. At the time of writing, in 1
997, a rather uninspiring 100-year old, five-storeyed building owned by an insu
rance company is situated on the site. 

After the demolition of this building, I suggest to erect a 12-16-storeyed WHI 
building housing editing and research rooms on the upper floors while accommoda
ting several workstations with public access to a database limited according to
 publicly agreed ethical constraints, public exhibition rooms, and small cinema
s showing ETI-films on the lower floors.

On the outside of the building, I propose to clad the house all the way round w
ith huge flat display screens (which will not be that expensive in the year 200
0 !) at the height of the 2nd-3rd floor, the front of the house carrying a 4 m 
x 35 m display screen and the two long sides each a 4 m x 90 m display screen, 
the latter possibly divided into three or four sections.   

The display screens on the long sides could show carefully, by Danish editors s
elected tv-pictures recorded by the ETI that are only just interesting enough t
o get some attention from the passers-by but not exciting enough to collect a h
uge crowd or create a traffic congestion.
The 4 m x 35 m display screen facing the Town Hall Square could be reserved for
 shows requiring more intense attention.

On top of the high-rise WHI-building, I propose to build an approx. 20 m x 60 m
 	luminous model of our Milky Way galaxy covered by a retractable, transparent 
or 	semi-transparent glass roof.
The idea with this location and outfit is of course that the whole building wil
l radiate day and night that we have entered into a new world, that our reality
 is no longer just global but also galactic. Thus the imagined outline of a WHI
 building shows how it could contribute both toned down and with splendid vigou
r to reconcile a wide, new world to an old local one. 

Inside the building, I believe my fellow countrymen will enjoy exhibitions and 
films of their distant ancestors, and shudder at seeing what was behind the fac
ade of recent military dictatorships. 

3.	Conclusion

All the three world wars in the 20th century had their origin in conflicts betw
een the disparate socio-economic systems of the European nations. The Iron Curt
ain was a necessary precondition of the nuclear arms race with the ensuing high
 number of atomic and hydrogen bombs which, in their turn, were required for th
e time reversal on Doomsday.

After the fall of the Iron Curtain and Communism in Eastern Europe 1989-90 and 
the subsequent rapprochement between the socio-economic systems of Eastern and 
Western Europe, the ground appears cleared for an intensive economic, political
 and military co-operation for the first time in recent history.

At the same time, the focus of the world's most explosive conflict has been dis
placed to the Middle East, to the clash of interests between Israel and Palesti
ne. The devaluation of the identity of the ETI - from Our Lord to a global civi
lization like our own (1) - must have the consequence that the world, including
 the Palestinian people and the Arab world, will recog-nize that the right of t
he Jewish people to the land of Israel and to Jerusalem as its capital is legit
imated by a foreign civilization much like our own with an extraordinarily deep
 insight in anthropology, psychology and theology while possessing a profound k
nowledge, derived from its own history, of circumstances of vital importance to
 the development - and survival - of every global civilization.

However, our global community, who earned its right on Doomsday, if not before,
 to have an opinion about this issue, cannot any longer accept the right of the
 Jewish people to Israel and to Jerusalem as its capital being an absolute righ
t which precludes the Palestinian people from having a right to the land of Pal
estine and from considering Jerusalem or a part of Jerusalem the capital of Pal
estine. This must have the consequence that Israel accepts the right of Palesti
ne to be a state on equal terms with Israel and to consider Jerusalem or a part
 of Jerusalem its capital according to principles stated after negotiations bet
ween the two nations themselves.

In principle, the opinion of our civilization about this issue can be just as g
ood and well-informed as the opinion of the ETI. Thereby the road should be ope
n, not only for the Israeli and the Palestinian peoples, who have suffered for 
so long, but also for the world as a whole to implement the global revolution a
fter Doomsday.

The global revolution which will be implemented and carried through within the 
coming few years is primarily directed against criminal, élitist governments, a
gainst tyrannic organisations and their hired experts worldwide. A related prob
lem is the necessary devaluation - or clarification - of the legitimated right 
the Jewish people can assert to the land of Israel with Jerusalem as its capita
l. The world requires a - substantiated and justified - devaluation of élites a
nd dismantling of old tyrannic structures at this moment of transition in our h
istory. Much wider circles and many different categories of non-élitist people 
with mutual interest and respect are needed to build the world of the next cent
ury. The four construction projects proposed in this paper should be instrument
al in contributing to achieve this end.

Steen Hjortsoe


(1)	Hjortsoe, Steen: The Breakdown of the American and Russian Intelligence Tyr
annies: the heralding of a global revolution. Copenhagen, Contra Publishing Co.
, 1996.

(2)	The Future of Warfare: Select enemy. Delete. The Economist, March 8th - 14t
h, 1997.

(3)	Collins, Tony: Open Verdict. An Account of 25 Mysterious Deaths in the Defe
nce Industry. Sphere Books, 1990.

(4)	Rosenfeld, A.: Multiresolution Image Processing and Analysis. Springer-Verl
ag, 1984.

(5)	The New English Bible. Penguin Books, 1970.


Steen Hjortsoe
+ - Re: NATO, the USA and Ukraine * Other considerations (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Ivan Kinda wrote:
> Andrei Popov wrote:
> > I would also never agree that Russian leaders MUST always follow
> > opinion polls - we are not in USA, thank God.
> You must be Russian patriot, Andrei, to feel that Russia is somehow
> better "to be in" than the USA.  Better for whom, the populace or the
> miniscule elites ?
> Then again, I notice that you are posting from the UK ... so perhaps you
> are "voting with you feet", eh :-)
> Ivan

Dear Ivan,

every time an American or Australian patriot is short
of arguments he/she uses the same boring trick: 
"you are posting from abroad ....." - it's not original.

Listen, pal, Russians have no more reasons than anyone else
to apologize for living abroad if their professional or 
business or just personal interests require it. 

RE: "better to be in":

look into the dictionary, LEADER comes from the verb LEAD.
At certain stage of their development Americans confused
"leader" and "follower". I do not wish this to happen in
Russia. And spare your "democratic rethorics" for African

With best wishes

+ - Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Pax vobis Domine!

May you be cloned!

+ - Re: peace (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
>laurie > writes:
>> I am wondering how to say 'peace' in Hungarian--and any other language 
>> well 
>> Thanks for your help!
>> laurie
>Well, how to say it  is a bit hard to explain with 7bit ascii, but
>it's written as "be'ke"
>And the ' is supposed to be on top of the e.
>David "Dave" Litkey

Frieden = German
Pax     = Latin
Paix    = French
Paz     = Spanish
Pace    = Italian
Shalom  = Hebrew
Salem   = Arabic

+ - Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

aheringer > wrote in article
> Pax vobis Domine!
> May you be cloned!
> Agnes
Biztos, azt akarod hogy, oreg, alacsony, kopasz, kover, magyarok legioja
irkaljon neked leveleket? 
+ - Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dominus > wrote in article
>  wrote:
> >
> > Ugyanis a Usenet altalanosan elfogadott nyelve az angol,

Azert szeretnek magyarul levelezni (pedig sajnos az angol mar jobban megy),
mert ha neha elkanaszosodunk, legjobb ha idegenek ne tudjak.  Persze ennek
a bajos romaniai holgynek szivessen irok angolul.  Nyugi-nyugi, ebbe a
korba, nem kell felre gondolni.  

> >Szepesi 56-os gyalazatos szerepeert

Errol nem tudok semmit.  Mi a helyzet?  Ha 56-ban piszkoskodott akkor, el

> >Gondolom ez a "Litvan" Liptak akart lenni, nem?

Liptak Bela nagyon nagy az en szakmamban.   A Boulder-i egyetem konytaraban
is van negy tobb-kotetes konyve.

Udv: Istvan
+ - Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
>aheringer > wrote in article
>> Pax vobis Domine!
>> May you be cloned!
>> Agnes
>Biztos, azt akarod hogy, oreg, alacsony, kopasz, kover, magyarok legioja
>irkaljon neked leveleket? 
En is alacsony vagyok, oreg es kover (nem kopasz).  Nem akarok 
hozzamenni felesegul.  De bar mindenki ugy gondolkodna ahogy Dominus.  
Sokkal intelligensebben valaszolt, mint ahogy en valaha is meg tudnam 
fogalmazni a mondanivalomat - ezert nem is valaszoltam a maga 
provokaciojara - Dominus valaszolt helyettem es nagyon halas vagyok erte.

+ - Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Istvan Lippai wrote:
> Peter,
> Osszekevered a Nixon kinai diplomaciajat amit azert csinalt, hogy a meg > akk
or nagyon veszejes szovjet befojas ellen eggyensulyozzon.  Ezt amerika
> erdekebe, es nem penzert csinalta.
> Reagan mar nem volt elnok, es mint privat polgar ment japanba.  Nem
> amerikat, hanem sajat magat kepviselte.  Japan, Amerika szovetsegesse.
> Busch megint amerika erdekeit kepviselte, es nem adta el magat a kinaiaknak
> penzert.
> Az a problema Clinton-nal, hogy o eladta magat a kinaiaknak azert, hogy
> legyen penze az elnoki valasztasra.  Van aki ezt meg hazaarulasnak is
> nevezne.  Ugy tudom, hogy teknikailag nem lehet a Clinton cselekedetet
> hazaarulasnak venni, mert Amerika nincs haboruban.  De azert nagyon piszkos
> dolog.
> Remeleg ez a magyarazat segitett neked.
> Udv: Istvan
Nagyon koszonom magyarazatodat. Szeretnem emliteni hogy velemenyed
en mar tobb mint 35 eve tagja vagyok a Republican Partinak. 
Nagy kulonbseg van valamiben hinni es valamit ellenezni. Azt hogy en jo
republikanus vagyok az nem zarja ki hogy egy megvalasztott elnokot, aki
demokrata, is tisztelem.
Minden politikus gazember! Muszaj mert politikahoz penz kell,
egy demokraciaban.

Udvozlettel egy tanulod

Aradi Peter
+ - Re: George Soros (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Istvan Lippai wrote:
> Snip
> Uj tema, latjatok mennyivel tomorebb a magyar nyelv mint az angol?
> Javaslom, hogy a magyar nyelvet hasznaljuk nemzetkozi ertekezleteken.
> Istvan

Miert ne? Egy ismerosom irta Pestrol aki nezi 
a Star Trek TV sorozatot, " Akarhova utaznak a vilagurben 
mindenki Magyarul beszel" Mondom hogy tevedes, mindenki 
angolul beszel mert en is nezem a sorozatot. Erre azt 
mondta ,"ha't leforditsak hogy az angolul beszelo
vilagnak az erzeseit ne bantsak". Szoval Istvan, a lehotose'g

+ - Re: LE HUNS OR LE MONGOLS? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Try and try hard to get the picture .
+ - Re: Helen M. Szablya (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Erdekes veletlen ...  Ugyanis Szablyaek kb. egy merfoldre laknak itt
> tolem, s rendszeresen elszoktam latogatni hozzajuk a gyakori
> partijaikra.  Ugyanis, amint biztos tudod, az Ilonka az itteni
> tiszteletbeli magyar konzul is egyben.  Nem is tudtam, hogy feletek jart
> mostanaban.  Nekem is megvan az a konyv, de meg nem olvastam.  Majd ha
> en is nyugdijas leszek. ;-) 

Szerencses vagy, hogy ismered otet.   Ugy latszik, hogy egy kulonleges
magyar csalad.  A beszede a helyi konyves boltban volt (Tattered Cover). 
Tegnap vettem a konyvet es meg en se olvastam el.  Mama delutan (most
Szombat reggel van) is fog beszedet tartani a mar. 15. megemlekezesen.

A konyves boltban (hatalmas epulet) egy masik oreg magyar mutatott nekem
egy szoke szep kislanyt (nekem mar mindenki kislany).  Azt mondta, hogy
amikor tettek fel a tablat a magyar emlekmure (van egy gyonyoru 56-os
emlekmu Denver-ben), akkor jott ez a kislany es harom voros rozsat letett. 
Azt mondta az oregnek, hogy az Apja, Nagybacsija, es meg valaki mas
szabadsagharcos rokona emlekere hozta.  Ildiko a neve.  Mar regen nem
hallottam ilyen szep magyar nevet.
Udv: Istvan
+ - Budapest condo forsale (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

84 m2, 2-bedroom condo overlooking the Buda Hills in a beautiful,=20
small apartment house of Budapest'=92s exclusive Rozsadomb disrict
(Nagybanyai Street) is for immediate sale. It features telephone,=20
garage, hardwood floor and gas central heating. Easy access to the
city: downtown is just a short, convenient 15-minute ride by public=20
transportation. For more details, please visit the webpage
http://spengler.econ.duke.edu/condo or send E-mail to .
+ - Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Istvan Lippai wrote:
> aheringer > wrote
> > Many Hungarian Jews'roots are much deeper than some non-Jews'.
> Agree.  I would go as far as question anyone who makes anti-Semitic attacks
> on behalf of Hungarians, especially on the Internet.  They may be trying to
> harm the reputation of Hungary and Hungarians.

How very true, thank you so much for saying this.  As a Romanian Jew I
have had more than plenty of opportuniy to compare how other countries
treat their minorities.  The very fact that the largest number of Jews
(outside Russia) in Eastern Europe lives in Hungary today is proof to
this fact.  Moreover, Hungary had allowed 40,000 Romanian refugees to
live in their country during the "dark ages of Communism", a favor the
Romanians would have NEVER returned.  I have been raised by Hungarians
in Romania (talk about double jeopardy), and I have nothing but
admiration and praise for all those whom I've encountered.  If you think
Soros is beaten up for being Jewish, you should see how he is beaten up
in Romania for being Jewish AND Hungarian...
> > I don't understand why Soros is constantly attacked only because he
> > gives a lot of aid all over the world.
> Soros advocates a very liberal social philosophy.  You can disagree with
> him, I do, without being anti-Semitic.  As a conservative, I find little
> that I like about his social agenda for America.  Perhaps, you are overly
> sensitive and read more into some statements than need be.
I find Soros to be somewhat of a philosopher, a humanist in a certain
sense.  I teach upper level International Business, and every semester I
assign a student to do research on Soros and present their findings to
the class.  I find my students always reacting with amazement at finding
out all the many facets of this parrticularly interesting man.

> >  And I don't understand why Soros - as well as Sarlos - are
> > giving so much aid to Hungary when all the thanks they get
> > are antisemitic attacks!
> That is totally unfair.  Why do you have to say things like "all the thanks
> they get are antisemitic attacks!"  Just think, generalizations like this
> caused a lot of grief for some of your folks.
> I am really enjoying this.  Playing the role of a great and wise moderator.
>  The Internet is fun-fun-fun.
> Udv: Istvan
I personally admire Soros for staying out of the limelight as much as
possible (unlike Donald Trump, Ross Perot and the like).  I respect him
for doing what he believes in, what he believes to be right.  It is more
than just financial know-how.  It is his human know-how which amazes
me.  A truly fascinating person indeed.


+ - Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:44:46 -0600, Peter Aradi > wrote:
>Melyik Amerikai elnok csinalt beket Kommunista Kinaval? - Richard Nixon.

Beket csinalni nem ugyanaz, mint az elnok lefizetese.

>Melyik Amerikai elnok kapott egy ket millio dollaros honorariumot ket
>beszedert visszavonulasa utan Japantol?  -  Ronald Reagan. (Republican)
>Melyik volt Amerikai elnok volt Kommunista Kina legnagyobb Amerikai
>baratja a
>nyolcvanas evekben? - Volt elnok es Amerika Kinai nagykovetje George

Hatha te nem tudsz kulonbseget tenni volt elnokok es hivatalban levo
elnokok kozott, akkor politologiabol elegtelenre vizsgaztal.

Pannon J.
REMINDER: Please correct my e-mail address in any personal reply by
removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP
+ - Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >  writes:

>Gabor Barsai > wrote:
>>> republikanusoknal most mar csak valami jo noi jelolt johet szoba jo
>>> esellyel.

>>Hmmmmm...ezt eppen te mondod?
>Miert?  Eddig ugy tuntem, hogy noellenes vagyok?

>Joe Pannon

En mar csak arra varok, hogy mikor kerdezi meg Gabor: "Are there any Chicks in 
this White House?"  :-)
+ - Re: Looking for Hungarian-English Dictionary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Thank you very much for your reply. Also thanks to Sunike
>, Jozsef Varga >,  Kardos
Csaba >, and especially John
> for your recommendations.

I was looking for a printed hard copy dictionary as opposed to an
online dictionary. I've decided on the concise version of the
Magay-Orszagh series.

Of the online versions recommended, I found
http://www.sztaki.hu/services/dictionary/index.htm the easiest to use
by an English speaker attempting to learn Hungarian.

 (Beke Oliver Kemiai Technologia) wrote:


>Most of the freely distributable Hungarian-English dictionaries are based on
>the words typed in by my friend, Attila Vonyo. If you prefer a dictionary
>access *not* through the net, then look at his homepage:
>and you can download his word database associated with a simple search program
>If the continuous net access is not a problem for you then there are some 
>other addresses:


>Hope these will help you.
 (Stuart Makagon)
+ - Re: NATO, the USA and Ukraine * Other considerations (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andrei Popov wrote:
> Tell me for God's sake: what the ***k does Russia need in Poland?!
> Land?
> :-)
> Food?
> :-))
> vodka?
> :-(((
> not even funny, it's horrible
> People?
> :-)))))))))))
> What did it need for past fifty years, and before that for about 150 years?

  What did Russia need in Ukraine, Baltics, Caucasus, Finland, Czechia
and Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria, etc.?

  And now you wonder why Eastern Europe is crawling for any hope of
salvation from the political monster next door who's been bathing in the
blood of Chechens, instead of Eastern Europeans, for a while but who may 
turn its "rapacious eyes" (the words of Russian poet A. Blok) back
towards Eastern Europe any time.

your 3APA3A
+ - Re: MONGOLS, short version (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Ooo Baby, do not get excited.
You are just a HUN
+ - !INTERNATIONAL CALLING 25 CENTS/MIN! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

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+ - Re: APPLY FOR THE USA VISA LOTTERY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
	 (IEAUSA) writes:
> FLORIDA 33074, USA

 Hey, man, don't you think that you are _a little bit_ too late?
The time limit for applications to the 1998 Visa Lottery is already

 And the credibility of a company posting from AOL, well, is at least
questionable. Why don't you just try to fool people somewhere else and
not in the soc.culture.magyar?

+ - Re: RT765, the gutless bastard (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hey you Hunic Baboon, I return to you the following exciting stuff:

                                               THE IMPERIAL  ROMANS  

Note: In the following article I used Romanians (Vlachs ) = ROMANS. The "
= " sign should be interpreted as: direct descendants of the Romans,
people connected culturaly, racialy  to the Romans,
(as it is suggested by the chronicles).

The Romanians were known in the past as:

VALACHUS (By the Catholic West)
FLACI (By catholic West)
IFLAK (By the Turks)
VLASI & VOLOH (By the Slavs)
OLAH &BLACH (By the Hungarians)
OLAHOK (By the Hungarians)
OLASZOK (The Hungarian name for the Italians)
WALACH (By the Germans)
WALSCHER (The German name for the Italians)
BLACHOS & VLACHOS (By the Greeks)
BLOCH (By the Saxons in Transilvania)
WOLOSZY (By the Polish)
WLOCHI (The Polish name for the Italians)

In old German WALH = ROMAN
In old slavonic VLAST = POWER(considered of Gothic origin)
In old slavonic VLAST = GIGANTE/GOD

Romanians always called themselves ROMANS & RUMANS.Their  neighbors called
them Vlachs,Vlasi,Olahs,etc.


From "De administrando imperio".Constantine's surname, PORPHYROGENITUS
(that is, born in the Purple Chamber of the Imperial Palace in

 "The emperor Diocletian was much enamored of the country of Dalmatia, and
he brought folk with their families from ROME and settled them in this
same country of Dalmatia, and they were called ROMANI (VLACHS) from their
having been removed from ROME, and this title attaches to them until this

"The territory possessed by the ROMANI (VLACHS) used to extend as far as
the river Danube"
(Constantine shows that the ROMANS (Latins, NOT Greek Romans or
Byzantines) or Vlachs are the original Romans.

"The country of the ZACHLUMI  was previously possessed by the ROMANS, I
mean, by those ROMANI (VLACHS) whom Diocletian the emperor translated from
(Constantine is talking about the Imperial Romans,who are going to be
known under the name of VLACHS).

"These same CROATS arrived to claim the protection of the emperor of the
Romans Heraclius before the SERBS claimed the protection of the same
emperor Heraclius, at that time when the Avars had fought and expelled
from those parts the ROMANI (VLACHS) whom the emperor Diocletian had
brought from Rome and settled there, and who were therefore called ROMANI
(VLACHS) from their having been translated from ROME to those

"The country of Diocleia was also previously possessed by the ROMANI
(VLACHS) whom the emperor Diocletian translated from ROME"

"And sice what is now Serbia and Pagania and the so-called Kanalites were
under the dominion of the emperor of the Romans, and since these countries
had been made desolate by the AVARS (for they had expelled from those
parts the ROMANI (VLACHS) who now live in Dalmatia and Dyrrachium)"

"The country in which the PAGANI  now dwell was also previously possessed
by the ROMANI(VLACHS) whom the emperor Diocletian translated from ROME and
settled in Dalmatia".

"At that time when the Avars had fought and expelled from those parts the
ROMANI(VLACHS) whom the emperor Diocletian had brought from ROME and
settled there,and who therefore called ROMANI from their having been
translated from ROME to those countries"

SUMMARY: In his description of the Greek Roman Empire,we can definitely
identify two people,the Imperial Romans(VLACHS-those Romans  who initiated
the empire),called by Constntine,ROMANI, and the Greek
Romans(BYZANTINES-those Romans who adopted GREEK as the language of the
State and Church).

Giulio Ruggiero, Abbot ( in a report addressed to Pope PIUS 5, 1568).

"..., Sono questi Vallachi per antica origine Italiani, per esser colonia
de Romani, condotta da Flacco, la quale con vocabolo corrotto vogliono
molti che siano detti Vallachi"


Pierre Lescalopier, French lowyer (1574).After visiting Romanian

"Tout ce pays ( la Walacchie) et Moldauie et la plus part de Transiluanie
a este peuple des colonies romaines du temps de Traian l'empereur; le
capitaine se nommoit Flaccus qui a donne ce nom nouueau au pays de Flacchi
et par glissement de langue Wlacchie. Ceux du pays se disent vrays
successeurs des Romains et nomment leur parler romanechte c'est a dire
romain; la plus part de leurs parolles sont demies italiennes et demies
latines meslees de grec et de baragouin. Ilz ont en fort grande horreur le
pape et l'Eglise romaine et honorent comme Dieu leurs vaiuodatz"


Giovani  Francesco Commendone (1523-1584), Prist. Presents a short
description to Pope Grigore 13,   about the origins of the Vlachs.

"Valachia, id est Italia, vocatur veloc enim Italum Sarmathae siscunt, nam
Valochi non modo disciplinae romanae mores et leges ceras hactenus
retinent, sed ipsa quoque latinae linguae vocabula plurima suo idiomate,
quod illiricum est, admiserunt..."


Antonio Possevino (1533-1611), Episcope. In his mission to Transylvania
writes a report to Pope Grigore 13.

"Principi di Moldavia et Vallachia, poiche sono discesi da ROMANI, dei
quali ancora ritengono il nome, et, come si spera, anco l'amore..."


Ferrante Capeci (1549-1589), Napolitan Prist.

"E la Transilvania habitata da tre sorti di persone, et tutti hanno lingue
distint. Valachi, I quali sono I piu antichi habitatori e descendono da
italiani e longobardi. Onde hanno lingua simile all'italiana moderna, tal
che fra pochi mesi si potrebbe bene imparar la loro lingua; come essi anco
facilmente imparano l'italiano. Anzi essi si chiamano romaneschi..."


POPE CLEMENT 6 (1342-1352).

"Olachi Romani,commorantes in partibus Ungariae,Transilvanis,Ultralpinis
et Sirmus"
(In Hungary,Transilvania,Muntenia and Sirmia live the Roman-Vlachs)


"Tam nobilibus quam popularibus Olachis Romanis"


 POPE PIUS II (1458-1464) (Commentarium rerum memorabilium).

"VALACHI lingua utuntur Italica, verum imperfecta, et admodum corrupta;
sunt qui legiones Romanas eo missas olim censeant adversus Dacos, qui eas
terras incolebant; legionibus Flaccum quendam praefuisse, a que Flacci
primum,deinde Valachi, mutatis litteris, sint appellati;quorum posteri (ut
ante relatum est) "

Summary: (The Vlachs are a people of Roman origin, born from an antic
Roman Imperial colony, speaking a language close to Latin or Italian).

Nicolaus Machinensis, episcop of Modrussa ( DALMATIA).

"Inferiora vero quaecumque Ister Boristenesque intercipt usque ad Ponti
ripas Valacchi obtinent,
romani quondam vel exules vel milites, a duce Flacco ita cognominati, nunc
immutatione litterae Vlacchi appellati: quo vocabulo non modo ea gens sed
omnes quoque finitimae nationes hodie Italos nominant. Valacchi originis
suae illud praecipuum prae se ferunt argumentum quod, quamvis Mysorum
lingua quae illyrica est omnes utantur, vernaculo tamen sermone, hoc est
latino haud prorsus obsoleto ab incunabulis loquuntur; et cum ignotis
congressi, dum linguae explorant comertium, an ROMANAE loqui norint


Janus Pannonius.Hungarian Humanist, Poet (1434-1472).

"Sarmatici montes et vos septemplici Istri 
Caerulea Euxinio cornua mixta Mari,
Ac tu Romanis olim possessa colonis
Sed iam corrupto, barbara rerra, sono 
Quid dominum lentis longe retinetis in armis?"


Alessandro Cortesi. Poet, (1469-1491)

"An procul expusos Nomadas, serasque luentes
Pastores rupto Siculos pro foedere poenas?
Trinacriae Siculos quondam, Schythiaeque colonos,
Fortia magnanimos praebentes colla Valachos,
Qui referunt prisca Roamanam ab origine gentem?"


POPE Innocent III (in  a latter from 1203).

"Therefore, we, who have been appointed by the will of GOD and
Father,unworthy as we are, as vicars and successors of the Apostolic See,
to prove by the force of facts our fatherly love for the Church of the
Bulgarians and ROMANIANS (VLACHS),who are said to be THE DESCENDENTS OF
THE ROMANS,by their flesh and blood"

POPE Innocent III (in a letter addressed to IONITA, lord of the Bulgarians
and Romanians,from 1203)

"Thus, taking this into account, we have decided since long, through our
envoy or our letters, that we should pay a visit to your lordship, so
that,realizing your faith to the Roman Church,Your Mother, we might then
ROMANS...As, he (God the Father) will help you to be a ROMAN in this
wordily life and for your Eternal Salvation by your own striving, the same
as you are BY YOUR DESCENT; and he shall help the people of your country,
which say that they are the ROMANS, blood and flesh".

Enea Silvio Piccolomini, "Cosmography" 1501.

"Transilvania...,it is inhabited by three peoples: the Saxons, the
Szecklers and the ROMANIANS.
The Saxons had come from Saxony,and are strong men,used to the
struggle...The Szecklers are considered the most ancient Hungarians...,The
ROMANIANS are of Italian stock..., A colony of the ROMANS was settled
there (Dacia) to keep a tight rein over Dacians under the leadership of a
certain Flaccus, after whose name the coutry was called Flacohia and its
inhabitants were called VLACHS instead of Flacci. This people speaks now a
ROMAN idiom, although partly changed,and hardly understood by an Italian".

Francesco della Valle,1532,(Secretary of Aloisio Gritti,a natural son to
Doge Andrea Gritti).

"The Romanians(Vlachs) are of Italian stock, and according to them, they
are the descendants of the ANCIENT ROMANS".

The anonymous notary of King Bela, "Gesta Hungarorum".

"For, after king Attila's death,the ROMANS called the soil of Panonia a
graze field as,their herds used to graze in the country of Panonia.And
they were right in calling the Panonian soil the grazing fields of the
ROMANS, as even nowadays, the ROMANIANS(Vlachs) feed their sheep on the
Hungarian estates".


IOAN KINNAMOS (Imperial secretary under two Byzantine emperors, Manuel I &

"It is said about the Vlachs that they are the old descendents of those
from Italy".


Poggio Bracciolini (1380-1459),"Disceptationes convivales", Florentine

"Apud superiores Sarmatas colonia est ab Traiano ut aiunt derelicta, quae
nunc etiam inter tantam barbariem multa retinet latina vocabula, ab
Italis, qui eo profecti sunt, notata.
Oculum dicunt, digitum, manum,panem,multaque alia quibus apparet ab
Latinis, qui coloni ibidem relicti fuerunt, manasse eamque coloniam fuisse
latino sermoneusam".


Flavio Biondo. Humanist, (1392-1463).

"Et qui e rgione Danubio item adiacent Ripenses Daci, sive
Valachi,originem, quam ad decus prae se ferunt praedicantque ROMANAM,
loquela ostendunt, quos catholice christianos ROMAN quotannis et
Apostolorum limina invisentes, aliquando gavisi sumus ita loquentes
audiri, ut, quae vulgari communique gentis suae more dicunt, rusticam male
grammaticam redoleant latinitatem"


NICOLAUS MACHINENSIS. Episcop of Dalmatia under Pope Pius II.

"Inferiora vero quaecumque Ister Boristenesque intercipt usque ad Ponti
ripas Valacchi obtinent, romani quondam vel exules vel milites, a duce
Flacco ita cognominati, nunc immutatione litterae Vlacchi appellati: quo
vocabulo non modo ea gens sed omnes quopue fimitimae nationes hodie Italos


Janus Pannonicus (1434-1472), The most important Hungarian Humanist.

"Sarmatici montes et vos septemplicis Istri
Caerulea Euxinio cornua mixta Mari,
Ac tu Romanis olim possessa colonis
Sed iam corrupto, barbara terra, sono
Quid domimum lentis longe retinetis in armis?".


Filippo Buonaccorsi Callimaco (1438-1496), Italian Political Annalist.

"Sed utcunque immensus uel infinitus potios, eadem ubuque lingua et
praeter Romanorum coloniam Valachiam gentes omnes eadem primordia
"Fama nouae coloniae aliquamdiu motus Scuthios compescuit.Deinde non solum
propulsantibus, sed egregie etiam inferentibus bellum Romanis datae
acceptaeque sunt utrinque paene innumerabiles clades, cum pleraque a
caesaribus supplementa et auxilia suis mitterentur".


Jan Dlugosz (1415-1480),Polish Chronicler.

"(1359) Stephano Moldaviae Voievodae, apud Valachos mortuo, quorum maiores
et aboriginarii de Italiae Regno pulsi ( genus et natio Volscorum esse
fuisseque creduntur) veteribus Dominis et colonis Ruthenis, primum sudole,
deinde abundante in dies multitudine... ".


Raffaelo Maffei Volterano (1506),Italian Humanist.

"Eo quod Romanos, ut dixi, accepere colonos, pleraque uocabula loquuntur
lingua semijtalica,argumento est nomen Valachiam enim appellant, quod
Valach Italicum lingua ipsorum dicatur".


Marcantonio Coccio (1436- 1506), Italian Historian.

"Valachi italicum genus hominum: horum terram Daci olim tenuerunt: nunc
Teutones, Siculi et Valachi tenent... Valachorum nobilissimi qui
agriculturam et qui pecuariam exercent".


Felix Petancici (1445-1517), Humanist from Ragusa (Dalmatia).

"Haec est provincia Dacia dicta apud veteres, Romanorum colonia(unde eius
aborigines hac etiam nostra tempestate) passim latino utuntur colloquio".

Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.

Joachim Vadian (1484-1551), Swiss Humanist.

"Supra Cataractas Danubius, infra vero Ister dicitur, sunt autem hae
maximae, intre montes Dacorum Straboni, eos hodie Iazigibus et
Transiluanis subiunctos, Walachos nominant, vocabulo Boemis Sarmatisque
uernaculo, quod inde natum uidetur, namque ‘ty Vlasschi' Italos nominant
quos ibi consedisse ex Pannonicis Sarmaticisque Romanorum bellis
constant,cum ne hodie quidem eorum lingua ab Italica multum sit absona".


Stephan Taurinus (1485-1519), Moravian Humanist.

"Valachia vulgo Latinis Vlaccia dicitur, provintia Pannoniae Cisdanubianae
contermina in pontum usque descendens cum Damubo, veteres inferiorem
Moesiam dixere, vide superius loco suo. Inde Vlacci Vlacciae populi, quos
vulgus Valachos appellant".


Johann Boemus (1520), German Humanist.

"Sed ea Thraciae pars quae Gethica olim dicebat, vbi Darius Hidaspis
filius pene perijt, hodie Valachia appellatur, a Flaccis quiritum gente,
Rhomani enim Gethis superatis et deletis Flacci cuiusdam ductu eo Coloniam
miserunt, vnde prumum Flaccia, dein corrupta voce Vallacia dicta".


Sebastian Franck (1499-1543), German Humanist.

"In didem landt (Walachia) haben ettwan das volck Gethe gewonet, die gross
krieg gebraucht haben, zu letst mit den Rhomischen waffen ernider
gerruckt, abgetilckt vnd mit yhrem volck besetzt, vnder dem Rhomischen
hauptmann Flacco, von dem sy Flaccia nachmals vnlang Walachia gnant worden
ist, das diss volcks spraach noch heut her meysttheyl Rhomisch ist, doch
also corrumpiert, daz sy einem Rhomer kaum verstendtlich seind"


Georg Rithaymer (1563), Austrian Humanist.

"Valachi Italicum genus hominum in colonias huc missum, plane in mores
Getarum abierunt, ita nihil antiquae originis suae retinent, praeter
linguam quam barbare et corrupte conant".


Nicolaus Olahus (1493-1568), Romanian (Vlach) Humanist.

"Lingua, ritu, religione eadem Moldavi utuntur, qua Transalpini; vestitu
aliqua saltem ex parte differunt...Sermo eorum et aliorum Valachorum fuit
olim Romanus, vt qui sint coloniae Romanorum: nostra tempestate, maxime ab
eo differt; praeterquam quod multa eorum vocabula, latinis sint
intelligibilia...Valachi, Romanorum coloniae esse traduntur. Eius rei
argumentum est, quod multa habeant communia cum idiomate Romano, cuius
populi pleraque numismata, eo laci reperiuntur; haud dubie, magna
vetustatis imperiique Romani istic indicia".


Theodor Bibliander (1548),Swiss Humanist.

"Post irruptiones Gothorum et Germanicarum gentium et Sclavinorum, atque
lacerationem et ruinam, imperij, sermo provincialis degeneravit longius a
sua origine, ut in provincia Daciae Vualachorum lingua, Vlasky enim Italum
aut Walhen sonat Slavis. Idem accidit in Hispanijs, in Gallia, denique in
ipsa Italia, in Latio, in urbe domina gentium et sede Romanae eloquentiae"


Iacob Heraclid, Despot-Voda, Prince of Moldovia.

"Con voi valenti homeni et gente bellicosa discesi dali valorosi Romani,
quali hano fatto trmer il mondo... Et a questo se faremo cognoscer a tutto
il mondo li veri Romani et discesi da queli et il nome nostro sara
immortale et conergeremo l'imagine di nostri padri".


Stanislaw Orzechowski (1513-1566), Polish Humanist.

"Hi (sc. Daci) erant ex Italis Romanisque proceati, qui Duce Lucio Valerio
Flacco cum Daciam occupavissent, in hisque Regionibus uxores duxissent, ac
consenuissent, hoc Dacos reliquerunt, qui eorum lingua Romini a Romanis,
nostra Walachi, ab Italis appellantur. Wloszy enim Polonis idem est, quod
Itali Latinis".


Martin Opitz (1597-1639), The father of modern German literature.

"Doch ewre (der Romer) Sprache bleibt noch hier auff diesen Tag,
Darob man dich gewiss gar billich wundern mag.
Italien hat selbst nicht viel von seinem alten
Ingleichen Spanien vnd Gallia behalten:
Wie wenig diese nun den Romern ehnlich sein,
So nahe sind verwandt Walachisch und Latein"

"Es steckt manchs edles Blut in kleinen Bawrenhutten,
Das noch den alten brauch vnd der Vorfahren sitten
Nicht gantzlich avgelegt. Wie dann jhr Tantz anzeigt,
In dem so wunderbar gebuckt wird und geneigt,
Gesprungen in die hoh, auff  art der Capreolen,
Die meine Deutschen sonst auss Franckrich mussen holen,
Bald wird ein Kreiss gemacht, bald wiederumb zutrant,
Bald gehn die Menscher recht, bald auff der lincken hand,
Die Menscher, die noch jtzt fast Romisch muster tragen,
Zwar schlecht, doch witzig sein, viel dencken, wenig sagen"





       In the past noble titles ( baron, count, duke, etc.) were sold to
those rich people who had the money but did not have a name.Nations try to
do the same, Germany for example,  became HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE (Although they
were NOT Holy, NOT an EMPIRE, and certainly NOT ROMANS).Russians elevated
MOSCOW to a higher level (THIRD ROME).
The Russians took a step farther. They use (ABUSIVE) the BYZANTINE flag or
coat of arms ( that is a double headed eagle) as a symbol inherited by
their ancestors.

But the German and Russian people never called themselves ROMANS for
obvious reasons.
Also,  Popes, church officials, philosophers, writers, historians, etc,

If you read my article written above, you will find the apposite about
Romanians were allays called ROMANS by Popes, church officials,
philosophers, writers, historians, etc,
 And remember, the ROMANIANS call themselves ROMANS (always did).
Furthermore, the language of the ROMANIANS is Latin.


You do not like it?, go back to MONGOLIA
+ - Re: American scams made it to Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Istvan Lippai > wrote:

>Is this called the 'pigeon drop' scheme?

Yeap, that's it!

> Ami meg szomorubb az, hogy a legtobb ilyen szelhamos az kulfoldi 'magyar',
>aki kihasznalja a zavaros helyzetett othon.  Nem csoda ha sok othoni magyar
>nem nagyon kedveli a kulfoldi magyarokat.

Ezt honnan veszed, hogy kulfoldi magyarok a ludasok ebben?  Olvastal
errol valami statisztikat?

>Meg az a szerencsenk, hogy a legtobb othoni magyar nem olvassa a magyar
>listakat.  Akkor aztan tenyleg szoba se alnanak velunk.

Plane amikor egy kulfoldi magyar allit ilyeneket!

Joe Pannon
REMINDER: Please correct my e-mail address in any personal reply by
removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP
+ - Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:53:47 +0000, Ines Weber > wrote:
> >of course also somewhat biased because I have graduated with both my
> >undergraduate and graduate degrees from the University of Dallas which
> >is a Cistercian Catholic school run by monks from Hungary.  I have
> >carried on some of the most memorable discussions of my student life
> >there.
> Oh, bless you, Ines!  I have visited the monastery of those monks way
> back in the '70s and was a guest at their dinner table.  (I think it was
> in or around Grapevine, if memory serves.)  The range of
> talent of those monks was just amazing!  It's through the fruits of
> those talents that they established and developed that university to what
> it is today.  I wish more Americans were aware of the contributions of
> such quiet and diligent Hungarians as them to the US culture.
> So thanks for mentioning them right here, Ines!
> Regards,
> Joe Pannon
> ----------
> REMINDER: Please correct my e-mail address in any personal reply by
> removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
> in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP

It was in Irving, but yes, you are quite correct.  Did you knew that
they have now a Cistercian Prep. School for boys, for which there are
already extremely long waiting lists?

Can you remember any particular names of fathers there?

As for myself, I am trying to prepare my son to take the test for that
school and my daughter already believes to have decided to go to college
there (well, they know that it would please me, of course)


+ - Re: Istvannak es a Magyar listanak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

aheringer > wrote 
> >Biztos, azt akarod hogy, oreg, alacsony, kopasz, kover, magyarok legioja
> >irkaljon neked leveleket? 
> >Istvan
> > 
> En is alacsony vagyok, oreg es kover (nem kopasz).  Nem akarok 
> hozzamenni felesegul.  De bar mindenki ugy gondolkodna ahogy Dominus.  
> Sokkal intelligensebben valaszolt, mint ahogy en valaha is meg tudnam 
> fogalmazni a mondanivalomat - ezert nem is valaszoltam a maga 
> provokaciojara - Dominus valaszolt helyettem es nagyon halas vagyok erte.
> Agnes
Akkor minden rendbe van mert nekem is tetszettek Dominus levelei.  Talan o
nem is oreg, alacsony, kopasz, meg kover.  Kulonben is, en nagyon boldog
hazas vagyok (a felesegem itt al mogottem es mondta, hogy ezt irjam), es
nem tudom megkerni felesegul.  Talan Dominus?
+ - NEWS FROM MONGOLIA (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

From:  (EcolineInc)
Date: 3 Mar 1997 08:28:56 GMT
Message-ID: >

Some Greeks do erroneously refer to the Turks as "Mongols" simply because
the Turks originally came from the general region near Mongolia. This,
however, does not qualify the Turks to be Mongols. The Mongols are a brave
and noble people; and the truth about the Turks is that they were actually
chased by the Mongols across asia to where they are scattered today. The
fact that cockroaches live in the United States today does not make them
american citizens; nor if they are chased to Canada or Mexico, should
these roaches ever be referred to as "americans".
+ - Re: FEL MAGYARS Was: LE HUNS OR LE MONGOLS ? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Could you give us some more explenation?
+ - Re: Igy irnak o"k (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Sirjunk vagy nevessunk ezen, amit odat ir rolunk regi kedves ismerosunk?

Szereny velemenyem szerint sajnaljuk. Valami tortent gyerekkoraban.
Talan valaki elvette a  zabos zsakot mielott vegzett az 
evessel. A mai napokban meg hogy a kukorica ara nagyon 
magas es a 'tortenesz fizetesebol' nem tud sokat venni.     
Szegeny ember. Ennek egy jo mennyecske kell es egy jo 
Gulyas leves. Mindjart maskep irna rolunk - Ha nem,
akkor Ricinus olajat kell javasolni es vendeg szerepet
az alt.good cheer news groupon.

     Udv.        Mark
+ - Re: George Soros Founds Charter Europe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Ines Weber > wrote 
> How very true, thank you so much for saying this.  As a Romanian Jew I

Dear Ines,

You letter have my day.  I consider myself a very proud and patriotic
Hungarian-American.  I believe that my pride in my heritage should be
of no threat to anyone else.  I also appreciate the company of people who
take pride in who they are.

Some people tend to misinterpret my loyalty for my own people and
convictions, but you seem to be wiser than most.

I am a social and economic conservative, and disagree with most of Soros'
social agenda.  You and I have a right to disagree, as long as we are not
disagreeable with each other. At least we agree in our distaste for Donald
Trump and Ross Perot.  I do not think too much of them either.

Your English is excellent.  Do you still live in Romania?

Best wishes, Istvan
+ - RE: Igy irnak o"k (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Date: 11 Mar 1997 08:33:18 GMT
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar

>Igy irnak o"k


>Sirjunk vagy nevessunk ezen, amit odat ir rolunk
>regi kedves ismerosunk?

Sem si'rni, sem nevetni, kedves Jo'zsi. Ignora'ljatok.
Egy troll vagy esetleg egy beteg ember.

+ - Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Erika Kiss > wrote:

> Gabor Barsai wrote:
> > 
> > aki jo messze esett a tudas fajatol
> Ahhoz nem tudok hozzászolni, hogy Horn Gyula mennyire intelligens, de ez 
> a szolás, akár Te találtad ki akár nem, megér egy csillagos ötöst. Jot 
> nevettem rajta!!
> Erika

Gondolom, intelligens, csak nem arra hasznalja az eszet, amire kellene.
Nagyon elkeserito. Az Antall talan becsuletesebb, de nagyon ugyetlen volt,
nem politikus. Nem tudom, hogyan lehetne jobban ellenorizni a
kozszolgalati embereket. Tenyleg az allam megszunese lenne a megoldas? 

+ - Re: Közvetlen demokrácia (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gilgames > wrote 
> En a magam reszerol a kiralysag mellett dontenek, aki kiraly legalabb
> annyiban erdekelt az emberek joleteben, hogy szeretne a hatalmat az utoda
> szamara is atadni. 

Kiralysagnak az az alapveto elve, hogy a nemesek, az Isten kegyelmebol,
jobbak az atlag embernel.  Szerintem a nepunk javat nem a regi urak, sem a
nem tul regi kommunistak, hanem a becsuletes dolgozo magyar nep kozt
talalod meg.  Olvasdd el Petofi Sandor "A Magyar nemes" cimu verset.  Az a
vilag mar elmult, hala a magyarok Istenenek.  Amit az angol kiralyi csalad
noi ossze k..., az mar tenyleg botrany.

Az alkotmanyos demokracia (Amerikai alkotmany) modositja a tobbseg
hatalmat, kozben vedi a kissebbsegek jogait.  Nem orulok a Clinton
megvalasztasanak, de ugy mondjak; nagyon rossz a demokracia, de azert annal
jobb nincs.

+ - Re: APPLY FOR THE USA VISA LOTTERY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


On 18 Mar 1997 00:40:59 GMT,  (IEAUSA) wrote:

+ - Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:02:23 -0500, 
> Gabor Barsai > wrote:
> >
> >Nem, sorry ha igy olvasod. Csak iroi multad nem ezt sugallta nekem, hogy
> >ilyeneket irsz.
> Azert nem kene, hogy a revans vagya annyira elragadjon, hogy meg
> ertelmetlen szovegek irasat is kiegyenlitesnek tekints, Gabor. ;-) 

Arrrgh. Boccs, csak siettem. "Hamar munka ritkan jo." Vegre egy relative
ertelmes kozmondas.

+ - Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > 
nus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Gabor Barsai) writes:
>From:  (Gabor Barsai)
>Subject: Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:11:51 -0500

>In article >,
 (George Kovacs) wrote:

>> En mar csak arra varok, hogy mikor kerdezi meg Gabor: "Are there any
>Chicks in 
>> this White House?"  :-)
>> GK



+ - Re: Kommunista Kina vasarolt amerikai elnokot (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 11 Mar 1997 13:13:04 GMT, Istvan Lippai > wrot
>Peter Aradi > wrote 
>> en mar tobb mint 35 eve tagja vagyok a Republican Partinak.
>Kedves Peter!
>    35 eve tagja vagy a Republican Partinak?  Wow!  Latom, hogy nem en
>vagyok az egyeduli oreg ficko a listan.  Ennek nagyon orulok.  Talan meg
>talalunk is valamit amibe eggyet ertunk!?

No, hogy en se maradjak le, hadd adjam hozza a magam 24 eves tagsagat.
Delelott feleskudtem az allampolgarsagra, delutan meg mar regisztraltam
magam a Republikanusoknal.  Nem is tudtam azota sem elkepzelni, hogyan
regisztralhatna egy kommunista orszag menekultje az allandoan erosebben
balra kacsingato Demokratakra.  Illetve ha nagyon megeroltettem magam,
akkor eltudtam kepzelni, de azt jobb, ha hagyjuk. 

Egyebkent, Pista, azzal, hogy Hillaryt idiotanak nevezted, szerintem
alaposan eldobtad a sulykot!  Szerintem, ugyanis nagyon okos o, csak
az okossagat nem eppen ugy hasznalja, ahogy azt egy "first lady"-tol 
elvarhatnank.  Talan angolul a "scheemer" fedi legjobban a termeszetet.

Pannon J. 
REMINDER: Please correct my e-mail address in any personal reply by
removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP
+ - Italian language course in beautiful medieval city of B (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

we organize italian intensive courses in Bologna, away from
mass tourists. Other courses are held in smaller towns in Tuscany
in Arezzo and in Maremma.
The school in Bologna is situated in the  centre in an old medieval
building. People are friendly and chatty with foreigners . Perfect to
learn to speak Italian!
Classes are for 20 hours a week plus a programme of cultural
activities and excursions.
We also arrange your accommodation in families, apartments or
hotels. Teachers have several years of experience and enjoy 
to spend time with the students.
Contact us by e-mail or visit our web site!
Centro Cultura Italiana     v.Castiglione, 4   40124  Bologna   Italia
voice ++39-051-228003  fax 227675  e-mail  
Home Page: http://www.stelnet.com/bitwave/itschools/culturait