On 20 Jul 1996 19:56:35 GMT,  (George Szaszvari)
wrote:

>>Besides 'szilva lekva'r,' there was another lekva'r, made from
>>rosehips, that was staple food in Transylvania. It also has large
>>quantities of ascorbic acid. Does anyone remember the name of rosehips
>>lekva'r?

>
>My now frail mother (born Kolozsvar,) tells me about *hecsedli* (rosehip
>jam.) Is this what you meant?
>
>--
>George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
>Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC
>

That's it, that's it!! Hecsedli! Boy, it sure doesn't take much to get
me excited nowadays. :-)

Relay a grateful Nagyvaradi's sincerest thanks to your  mom. I have
been searching for the word in my mind for days. The notorious
tip-of-the-tongue phenomenon, I suppose. :-)

Thanks, George.

Rozsa Bandi

> =============================================================
      Andrew J. Rozsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 < OR >  
> -------------------------------------------------------------
          Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
> =============================================================

In article >,
 says...
>
>At 01:36 AM 7/19/96 GMT, Agnes Heringer wrote:
>
>>Eva, I have a nokkedli szaggato that my mother sent to me 30 years
ago.
>>Incidentally, here, in Toronto, there is a Hungarian hardware store
that
>>sells it.
>
Nokedli szaggato can be bought in most specialty cooking stores it
goes by the name of spaetzle (sp?) maker.It is a grater like device
with a hopper on top. Works better than the Hungarian ones.
Eva Kende

On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 17:20:07 GMT ANDREW ROZSA > wrote:

>Besides 'szilva lekva'r,' there was another lekva'r, made from
>rosehips, that was staple food in Transylvania. It also has large
>quantities of ascorbic acid. Does anyone remember the name of rosehips
>lekva'r?

In literary Hungarian its name is "csipkebogyo-lekvar".
The popular name for rose-hips is "hecsedli", and the jam made with it is
better known under the popular name of "hecsedli lekvar".
The vulgar name of this jam, i.e. "hecsepecs" (sometimes "hecsenpecs"
with an extra n added), is slowly dwindling away.
(FIY, both words hecsepecs and hecsedli are of German origin).




Paolo Agostini >

On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 19:18:06 -0400 Bob Hosh >
wrote:

>>>at 5:32 a.m. 7/17/96/ Eva Balogh wrote in reply to Agnes:
>>>New subject:  I just learned last year that "csombor"is nothing less
>>>than oregano!  Did you guys/girls knew that?
>>>
>Sorry to bring this up again, but we seemed to have gone culinarily
>astray. Oregano (Origanum vulgare) is rarely if at all used in
>Hungarian cooking. It's Hungarian name is "szurokfu" or vadmajornna.
>Marjoram (Origanum majorana) is used in Hungrian cooking, especially
>Transylvanian cooking.

Bob Hosh is basically right. As you surely know, dry oregano leaves are one
of the main ingredients of the Italian pizza. But the species Origanum
vulgare L. and Origanum majorana L. (alias Majorana hortensis Much.)
are very similar both in appearance and taste. That's why the dry
leaves of marjoram are sold  in the trade under the "common" name of oregano.

Apart from the botanical differences, which can be appreciated by the
specialist only, there are some evident dissimilarities. Origanum
vulgare, i.e  oregano, is a perennial plant while Origanum majorana,
i.e. sweet marjoram, is an annual plant. Moreover, it seems that the
only plant which can be grown under the Hungarian climatic condition
is the sweet marjoram since oregano needs a hot and dry climate (as a
consequence of which oregano has a stronger zest).

That's why in Northern Italy -- where the climate is similar to that
of Hungary - people are accustomed to grow as a herb marjoram only,
while in Southern Italy they can grow both varieties.

Nevertheless please note that -- according to the book of Priszter Szanislo:
"Novenyneveink. Magyar-latin szogyujtemeny. Mezogazdasagi kiado,
Budapest1986 -- the words "csombor" ~ "csombord" ~ "borsfu" ~
"borsika" ~ "csombormenta"  are the Hungarian name for Satureja
hortensis, in English: Savory or Summer Savory.

The Hungarian name for oregano is "szurokfu".


Paolo Agostini >

Joe Szalai wrote:
>
> At 01:36 AM 7/19/96 GMT, Agnes Heringer wrote:
>
> >Eva, I have a nokkedli szaggato that my mother sent to me 30 years ago.
> >Incidentally, here, in Toronto, there is a Hungarian hardware store that
> >sells it.
>
> I love nokkedli but I don't have the patience to make it.  If I had a
> nokkedli szaggato...  Hey!  Where is this place?  Can you give us the
> store's address and phone number.  I live 100KM west of TO and would love to
> buy a nokkedli szaggato next time I'm in the city.
>
> Joe Szalai

Joe, if you can not find one, contect me on my e-mail, there is a place
close to me, I'll be happy to mail you one.
Joseph Hill

Can anyone tell me the etymology of my surname, and what exactly it
"translates" to in the Hungarian language??????

There have been many family intrepretations, and I'd appreciate an
authentic origin.  Can anyone point in the right direction for surname
research?????

Note: I am not looking for genealogy, but instead, the origin of the word.

At 8:41 am 7/19/96, Barna Bozoki wrote:

>Tibor Benke was looking for a spice dictionary. I think he ment the
>following posting in TIPP #1621 from: 
>on Jan 3, 1995.
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>[snip]  full english -hungarian part]
>     Barna Bozoki

Yes!!!  Barna, thank you.  Now can someone find the hungarian-english part?


Tibor Benke

At 5:53 p.m. 7/20/96  Rozsa Bandi (Andrew Rozsa wrote to Pista:

>P.S.  Pista: Isn't it amazing that after all these years in this
>country we would still much rather root for Hungary than, say, in
>direct competition, the U.S.? Or is my assumption false and I am an
>exception?


I don't think you are alone.  I've lived 10 years in the US and 30 in
Canada.  I am a Canadian citizen and daily thank the Powers that Be that I
am fortunate enough to live in British Columbia, surely one of the finest
places on earth.  I am not a big sports fan, though I swam competitively in
my youth.  I watch TV rarely, (I disconnected my cable when I got on the
net, I can't afford both in time or money).  But when I see an event with a
Canadian, I root for the Canadian, if I see an event with a Hungarian, I
root for the Hungarian.  If I see an event with both Canadians and
Hungarians, I root for the Hungarians.  If I see an event with an American,
I root for the Italians (At least their flag is red white and green too ;-)
).

Tibor Benke

Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> On Sat, 20 Jul 1996, Norma Rudinsky wrote:
> > Slovak in-laws' Sunday dinners were the same.  And the cucumber salad was
made
> > with peeled sliced cucumbers in vinegar and water, salted, peppered, and
> > red with paprika?
>
>  But of course :-)!
>

What about a good measure of sour cream on top of it??  That's the only
way to have cucumber salad (tejfeles uborka sala'ta!)
Jozsi

ANDREW ROZSA wrote:
>
> On 20 Jul 1996 12:14:00 GMT,  (Steven C.
> Scheer) wrote:
>
> >I was watching the opening ceremonies of the Olympics
> >eagerly awaiting the parade of nations and even more
> --------------- snip ------------------------------
>
>
> Since I am neither, I can afford to say I was pissed!
>
>> Rozsa Bandi.
>
> P.S.  Pista: Isn't it amazing that after all these years in this
> country we would still much rather root for Hungary than, say, in
> direct competition, the U.S.? Or is my assumption false and I am an
> exception?
>
>Ditto!!!!!!!
Jozsi Hill

At 11:45 PM 7/20/96 -0700, Jozsi Hill wrote:

>Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>> On Sat, 20 Jul 1996, Norma Rudinsky wrote:
>> > Slovak in-laws' Sunday dinners were the same.  And the cucumber salad was
>made
>> > with peeled sliced cucumbers in vinegar and water, salted, peppered, and
>> > red with paprika?
>>
>>  But of course :-)!
>>
>
>What about a good measure of sour cream on top of it??  That's the only
>way to have cucumber salad (tejfeles uborka sala'ta!)
>Jozsi

Zoli Fekete may not agree with you.  He thinks that adding sour cream to
po:rko:lt to make it a paprika's is to ruin the po:rko:lt.  Some people's
children ... I just don't know.

Joe Szalai

At 09:29 AM 7/19/96 GMT+100, dr Gyorgy Bathory wrote:

>Anyhow I have to ad that my salary is equal to 150$ per month. Most
>of my colleagues get even less. The maintenance of my household and
>family requires about 350$ per month.

This is the main problems at micro scale, it happens at macro scale in both
Hungary and the US: deficit spending. People have to get used to the idea
that you cannot spend what you don't have.

Hungary is in a special situation. All the borrowing in the gulyas-communism
era was spent on keeping an artificially high level of standard of living.
Now it is pay-back time and nobody wants to take responsibility. I agree
that communists benefited more than others but the population as a whole did
benefit also. I remember living in the heaven of Romanian communism and
Hungary, with its plentiful stores (food and other merchandise) was
something we could only dream of.

Gabor D. Farkas

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sun, 21 Jul 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:
> >[cucumber salad]
> >What about a good measure of sour cream on top of it??  That's the only
> >way to have cucumber salad (tejfeles uborka sala'ta!)
> >Jozsi
>
> Zoli Fekete may not agree with you.  He thinks that adding sour cream to
> po:rko:lt to make it a paprika's is to ruin the po:rko:lt.  Some people's
> children ... I just don't know.

 As a matter of fact I was about to note that the other thing I dislike
messing up with sour creme is the otherwise delicious uborkasala1ta - but
then I held out hope that this heresy won't be heard of more ;-(...
 I don't have any trouble with having bowls of po2rko2lt/paprika1s,
uborkasala1ta and tejfo2l next to each other - indeed will consume copious
amounts of each whenever I can. But why can't we all just get along and
not insist on spoiling pure pleasures with mixing (unless the subject is
meant to be mixed - incidentally how come ko2ro2zo2tt barely received a
mention amidst all of this talk of seasoned delights, and then that was
with sheep cheese which again I cannot stand, silly me ;-))?!

 And don't even get me started on the 'budepesti' pronunciation of
"tejfEl" :-)...

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

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At 09:21 PM 7/20/96 -0700, Gabor D. Farkas wrote:

>I forgot the best part: during early summer when new potatoes appeared,
>instead of mashed potatoes we had new potatoes, fried in oil and sprinkled
>with parsley...

Oh yes!  "Petrezselyemes Krumpli" is one of my favourite summer
meals/sidedishes.  The new potatoes (and they had to be new potatoes!) were
cut into cubes and boiled until cooked, but not too soft.  A large amount of
parsley was chopped and then briefly fried in plenty of butter.  The drained
potatoes were then added and carefully mixed.

I suspect that originally lard was used instead of butter for frying the
parsley.  I've not heard of anyone using oil.

Joe Szalai

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sun, 21 Jul 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:

> At 09:21 PM 7/20/96 -0700, Gabor D. Farkas wrote:
>
> >I forgot the best part: during early summer when new potatoes appeared,
> >instead of mashed potatoes we had new potatoes, fried in oil and sprinkled
> >with parsley...
>
> Oh yes!  "Petrezselyemes Krumpli" is one of my favourite summer
> meals/sidedishes.  The new potatoes (and they had to be new potatoes!) were
> cut into cubes and boiled until cooked, but not too soft.  A large amount of
> parsley was chopped and then briefly fried in plenty of butter.  The drained
> potatoes were then added and carefully mixed.
>
> I suspect that originally lard was used instead of butter for frying the
> parsley.  I've not heard of anyone using oil.

 Joe, not to sound too much like evil's advocate, but you're mixing up
things ;-). The fried u1jkrumpli (YUMMY :-)) is a category of its own,
distinct from the boiled krumpli (which does NOT need to be new - indeed,
some lesser establishments regularly make it from the oldest, yikes) with
parsley - although the former may (or may not) have parsley as well! And
the real u1jkrumpli is small enough so that chopping does not make too
much sense (nor is it feasible)...

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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At 10:08 AM 7/21/96 -0400, Zoli Fekete wrote:

> Joe, not to sound too much like evil's advocate, but you're mixing up
>things ;-). The fried u1jkrumpli (YUMMY :-)) is a category of its own,
>distinct from the boiled krumpli (which does NOT need to be new - indeed,
>some lesser establishments regularly make it from the oldest, yikes) with
>parsley - although the former may (or may not) have parsley as well! And
>the real u1jkrumpli is small enough so that chopping does not make too
>much sense (nor is it feasible)...

Yes, yes, this is what I meant.

And another important detail: the cucumbers for the salad are supposed to be
sliced, then salted, then the salty juice squeezed out by hand and
discarded. The cucumbers are now ready for the rest (vinegar, water, etc.).

Gabor D. Farkas

Farkas wrote:

>I can speak for myself only but I did not know either that Argonne
>Labs belonged to the DOE. I also did not publish that. What I did
>is the following: during the debate I had with Nemenyi about the
>use of gov. e-mail accounts for private purpose I went to a search
>engine and searched for anl.gov (I had no clue what it was). Then
>I found the home page of the Argonne Labs. It had a pointer to people
>working there so I clicked on it and I also found Nemenyi. His name,
>room number, phone number and fax number were listed. At that time
>I did mention what I did (without listing any of this data) in one
>of the postings during that debate.

So Mr. Farkas needed to know every little details about my work in
order to win certain political arguments? And when Mr. Farkas goes
as far as looking into the home page of that company, he didn't see
that company's affiliation to DOE., even though it is shown there
quite clear? There is no need for explanations, why Mr. Farkas snooped
after me, and there is no need to explain why he published his findings
on Forum. There is no such a political or historical arguments, that
would call for this. It was nothing but looking for a clue, that could
be used to quiet the opponent.

>Apparently Mr. Nemenyi thinks that everybody reads every line of every
>Forum, especially if it is about him. Well, there are more important
>things to do in life and most of us do not work at places where we can
>do that during working hours.

Hmm, Mr. Farkas has a strange logic too. He states that not everybody
reads Forum, (which is true) but rushes to quote from it. (below)
And talked about working hour not remembering the fact, that I was
called "nazi scumbag" by a article written by a member of Hungary in
working hour, from a company, the tolerant fellow works. ;-)

>Nemenyi's references are at least not very reliable. He frequently
>quotes out of context and from dubious sources. For example last time
>in the Forum he quoted an article form the 1982 edition of the
>Nepszabadsag (at that time the official daily of the Communist Part)
>to prove that the CIA did bad things.

What I am doing is, nothing but quoting from a wide spectrum of sour-
ces. When Farkas came out with the same complain on Forum, I offered
different sources as well, for the argument. He backed off! So why is
he bringing it up on Hungary, if he could not continue the argument
on Forum? I am ready to continue the original argument with him on the
original platform, where the argument was born. But he does not have
the guts to continue there!

>He also frequently quotes from the Tora and Talmud to prove that
>Jews are the origin of everything bad.

Farkas is also a shameless liar, who is using the "Jew"-ticket. I can
prove anytime, that I never meant the "Jews" as general. I wrote about
individual cases, and I always pointed out, that the works of the few
can not be and should not be projected to the whole! So Mr. Farkas, cut
that miserable back stabbing. It works sometimes, but not always. It can
be fired away on the "whistle blowers hotline" booby trapped with some
work ethical preachings, but the bottom line is always the same. When
the arguments can't be won by facts, the character of the opponent comes
under fire. That is the tactics of those who either searched after my
work place or denounced me.

>Therefore I stopped taking him seriously.

He doesn't have take me seriously. It is enough if he goes back to Forum
and takes the historical and political facts seriously. When he can not
do it, he makes himself the one, who can not be taken seriously.

NPA.

Andy Kozma wrote:

>Ok.so I don't ask,but what are you doing otherwise?Do you spend your
>time now in front of the computer,whatching whatis wrongwith someones
>writing?Or just write to the Forum and the Hungary list?
>Is this too personal also? A.K.

Of course it is!

NPA.

George Szaszvari wrote:

>Completely correct Gabor. Black fascism is just as rife and deeply
>entrenched as any other type of fascism (and worse, it will gain
>momentum while politically correct zealots prevent even the public
>acknowledgement of its existence.)

Does it mean, that fascism and nazism can be interchangeably used?
Does it mean, that Franco, the fa schist dictator who saved countless
of jews from Hitler's wrath, was also a nazi, az well? Does it ever
occurred to those who mention nazism & fascism interchangeably, that
one of them was an Italian form of national socialism, meanwhile
the other was a German national socialism. Gabor's example about nazism,
suddenly transformed into fascism. Perhaps it is convenient, but far
from being true.

NPA.

At 06:42 AM 7/21/96 -0700, Gabor D. Farkas wrote:

>At 09:29 AM 7/19/96 GMT+100, dr Gyorgy Bathory wrote:
>
>>Anyhow I have to ad that my salary is equal to 150$ per month. Most
>>of my colleagues get even less. The maintenance of my household and
>>family requires about 350$ per month.
>
>This is the main problems at micro scale, it happens at macro scale in both
>Hungary and the US: deficit spending. People have to get used to the idea
>that you cannot spend what you don't have.

Your politics of simplicity will kill every economy everywhere, Gabor.

Maybe you paid cash for your house when you bought it.  We had to take out a
mortgage.  Most people do not have that kind of money up-front, and if we
were to learn the lessons of your 'school of hard knocks' and not buy our
house until we could afford it, the construction industry would collapse.
Hundreds of thousands would become unemployed.  Tens of millions more if we
counted all the ancillary industries.  The money lenders would also suffer
huge losses.  Most people can't pay cash for a new car.  If we were to learn
your 'common sense' economics of not spending what we don't have, the auto
industry would collapse.  Millions more would become unemployed.  Even more
money lenders would be faced with bankruptcy.  Hundreds of thousands of
young people go into debt so that they can get a university education.  If
they listened to you, very few of them would end up at university.
Universities would be closed and thousands of profs and support staff would
lose their jobs.

I could go on and on, but, do you know what?  I kind of like your theory of
not spending what you don't have.  It could lead to a revolution much faster
than my endless babbling.

OK everyone.  Please delete the above and remember -- "don't spend what you
don't have".  Lenin's question, "What is to be done", has now,
inadvertently, been answered.  Thank you Gabor!

Joe Szalai

Nemeny says:

>So Mr. Farkas needed to know every little details about my work in
>order to win certain political arguments?

That was not a political argument. It was about using government Internet
account for private purposes.

Typical of Nemenyi's way of quoting from sources:

I said:

>>Apparently Mr. Nemenyi thinks that everybody reads every line of every
>>Forum, especially if it is about him.

He says:

>Hmm, Mr. Farkas has a strange logic too. He states that not everybody
>reads Forum,


I am not going to answer any further postings addressed to me by Nemenyi,
here or on the Forum. However, I will challenge his (and others') further
anti-semitic statements, whenever and where ever I see them. And based on
the past there will be more of those.

Gabor D. Farkas

At 11:28 AM 7/21/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>> People have to get used to the idea
>>that you cannot spend what you don't have.
>
>Your politics of simplicity will kill every economy everywhere, Gabor.
>
>Maybe you paid cash for your house when you bought it.  We had to take out a
>mortgage.

We took a mortgage too. Still paying it back.

OK, OK. Maybe I (also) should have said: Don't borrow  what you cannot pay back
.

Gabor D. Farkas

Andras Kornai wrote:

>NPA wrote (on his Peto3fi Ra1dio1 interview)
> And believe it or not, the interviewer just verified everything. ;-)
>Really? In that case, he should have never let you say that Argonne was a
>"va1llalat" (company). By definition, va1llalat means an ordinary
>profit-oriented company, and Argonne is a national laboratory.
>NPA also said in the interview (posted on s.c.m by Joe Pannon):

Just because Mr. Kornai does not know the inner working of a project, that
does not mean, he is right. The project I worked on, in fact, was a profit
oriented investment by the DOE. And such acted as a profit oriented company.

>Anybody who checks out www.anl.gov knows what ANL stands for: getting this
>piece of information takes exactly 20 seconds of "investigation".  The
>fact-checking department of Peto3fi Ra1dio1 did not do a very thorough job on
>this interview -- I doubt there was any fact checking, if obvious untruths
>like the above were not caught.

Sure! But why would anyone do it? An argument about politics, or history
doesn't call for such. Just the fact, that snooping was followed by an
denouncement and my forced termination! I wonder why Mr. Kornai tries to
justify such actions? Is there any interests in this matter?

>As for the rest, it is still shrouded in mystery why NPA pretends to be the
>victim of a witch hunt, given that he didn't follow through with any legal
>procedure. What he claims is called "wrongful termination" and there are very
>elaborate rules and regulations protecting government employees from this.
>If NPA wanted his case reopened, I'd be glad to write a letter of support.

Please do so! I mean I would be thankful of that. I need such help. I assume
Mr. Kornai starts with obtaining of the name(s) of the denouncers first, than
he will request ANL. to include the original points of the case, such as,
propagation of antisemitic ideas, braking into account of different
universities,
propagation of pornographic materials, etc.

>In the past few weeks I'm becoming more and more convinced NPA is not a
>hardcore nazi, he is just plain nutso. His posting on HUNGARY how the
>communists initiated the 1848 revolution went a long way towards showing that
>blood libel is just a small part of his conspiracy theories. He sees himself
>as the victim of yet another (no doubt liber-bolshie) conspiracy and witch
>hunt, and I'd be glad to support his efforts to reopen the case at ANL.
>Nutso or not, he is entitled to due process.

There is another name caller! That is great. And not only that, but he tries to
put words into my mouth. That is quite honest. No, Mr. Kornai I never believed,
that I was denounced by liber-bolshies, but I believe, that I was denounced by
coward, spineless little worms, whose argument al skill consists of practices
borrowed from good old communists or nazi times, where under false name
denouncing
others because of their political views were considered a duty to the States.

>>You mean to his supervisor? But just go ahead, make my day. Make a fool out
>>of yourself. Please let me know how Mr. Szilagyi responded to you. Do not
>>leave any little piece out of it. :-)
>But before committing myself to your case, I would like to get some
>corroboration from your supervisor, especially as there is this rumor that
>s/he was also fired on account of your behavior. Is this true or untrue? You
>seem to be implying this is totally untrue, but I actually haven't seen any
>direct statement from you saying so. So let me ask directly: was your
>supervisor fired/laid off/terminated/pensioned off or does s/he still work at
>Argonne? Would this person be willing to corroborate your story, or do you
>see that person as part of the conspiracy against you?

Why are you interested of that suddenly? :-) Do you want to save Eva from makin
g
herself a total idiot? I am not going to help you with this. Eva got all the
rumors from ANL. didn't she? So live on the means she received from the inside
mole. After you are going to have the case reopened, you will be the one with
the absolute knowledge. :-)))))  So get the info yourself!

> Felado :  [United States]
> >        Oh, I admit. It was an "icipici szabadsagharc," and hardly anyone
> >calls it that.
> >
> >        Eva Balogh
>
> Whoever can say that must be  an "icipici tortenesz"

>This little exchange shows very clearly how debates about issues are
>transformed into debates about persons.

Oh boy! It is quite alright to call NPA. a Nutso. But touching on the
character of an inside historians :-) is forbidden. Are we talking about
double standard here?

>Whether 56 was a "szabadsa1gharc" has been debated many times, and rather
>heatedly, on HUNGARY.  Here the compromise offered by E1va (that it was an
>"itsy bitsy war of independence") is obviously ironic,

Obviously! In other word outright nasty!

>NFerenc's response that E1va Balogh is an "itsy bitsy historian" is an out
>and out personal attack.

You mean that is worst than calling someone a nazi scum bag or Nutso?
After reading Eva Balogh's so many books on history, I tend to incline
that NFerenc's assumption is quite right. ;-)

>The issue is now irrelevant: what remains is NFerenc's clear desire to have
>the last word and win some rhethorical points. When the other readers cheer
>and congratulate the instigators of such attacks, the virtual community is
>just taken over by thugs, as happened on FORUM.

You mean the majority on Forum are nothing but "thugs" ? Maybe a list of them?
Or better....why don't you go there and tell them! :-)

NPA.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sun, 21 Jul 1996, S or G Farkas wrote:
 > OK, OK. Maybe I (also) should have said: Don't borrow what you cannot
 > pay back.

 Well, that little modifier makes all the difference, doesn't it ;-(.
 But then, Hungary can pay it back - according to both the borrowers and
the lenders. The real issue here is the terminally naive belief, implicit
in the vision of getting rid of the IMF, that she could just decide not to
pay back and then the debt will go away without any drawbacks for
declaring bankruptcy. Fortunately, most people are aware of the
consequences seen when Poland did that, and few would be willing to take
on the following hardships.

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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Gabor Farkas wrote:

>>So Mr. Farkas needed to know every little details about my work in
>>order to win certain political arguments?

>That was not a political argument. It was about using government Internet
>account for private purposes.

Mr. Farkas has turned the original arguments into a debate of my work
ethics. You know, a kind of blow under the belt. ;-)
It had nothing to do, with the original topics, which pissed off Mr.
Farkas such, that he started a debate on me and started to snoop around
my work place!

>I am not going to answer any further postings addressed to me by Nemenyi,
>here or on the Forum. However, I will challenge his (and others') further
>anti-semitic statements, whenever and where ever I see them. And based on
>the past there will be more of those.

Answer? Mr. Farkas started this thread, which  makes me the "party" who
does all the answering. :-)
So Mr. Farkas wants be  an "antisemitic police". No problem! In that case
I can prove how deceiving Mr. Farkas's fact twisting is  in that topic. So
please do so, but in the meanwhile come back to Forum and bring your proofs,
that nazi Germany had laws for genocide! After you xrossposted argument on
HIX. would it be honest, to clean up, where you left your mess? :-)

NPA.

At 11:53 AM 7/21/96 -0400, Zoli Fekete wrote:

> > OK, OK. Maybe I (also) should have said: Don't borrow what you cannot
> > pay back.
>
> Well, that little modifier makes all the difference, doesn't it ;-(.
> But then, Hungary can pay it back - according to both the borrowers and
>the lenders. The real issue here is the terminally naive belief, implicit
>in the vision of getting rid of the IMF, that she could just decide not to
>pay back and then the debt will go away without any drawbacks for
>declaring bankruptcy. Fortunately, most people are aware of the
>consequences seen when Poland did that, and few would be willing to take
>on the following hardships.

I have very mixed feelings about this topic. I saw my friends and relatives
almost starve to death when Ceausescu prepaid the loans Romania had from the
world.

And I see Hungary going through terrible times, partially because the loans
it took.

Two thoughts:

1. If it is so hard to pay those loans back, maybe they should not have been
taken.
2. If it is so hard to pay those loans back, maybe the terms should be
extended, or some other means should be found to make the burden less
overwhelming. This should be done with the clear understanding that the
choice is between less pain for longer time or more pain for a shorter time.

Gabor D. Farkas

At 08:47 AM 7/21/96 -0700, Gabor D. Farkas wrote:

>OK, OK. Maybe I (also) should have said: Don't borrow  what you cannot pay
back.

Governments borrow money.  Then the 'powers that be' (money lenders,
perhaps?) raise the interest rate.  Even a small increase can mean a sudden,
huge deficit for many governments.  Then, the right-wing ideologues blame
the deficit on the poor or the disadvantaged who are getting financial help
from the government.  Meanwhile, the original money-lenders are having a
field day with all their extra earnings.  It's a nice scam, if ever there
was one!

Joe Szalai

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, Eva S. Balogh wrote:
> > Any-one saying to us who started back home that making $4.5K has made you
> >understanding just proves that it really hasn't.
>
>         You know as well as I know that you cannot use the exchange rate and
> come out with a reasonable conversion of living standards. $4.500.00 was not
> enough to live on. An apartment in New Haven was close to $400.00/month.

 This is not about exchange rate or conversion. This is about relative
living standards, opportunities and prospects.
 I've been living on ca. $1K/mo for a couple of years now, and I can tell
you it's a lot easier than many could afford back home.

 But, incidentally, there is one aspect where exchange rates too should be
taken into account, although you didn't. Some time ago you mentioned that
based on your acquintances' experience you considered expensive foreign
vacations taken at least once a year usual for Hungarian residents (which
you took as proof that they don't live all that bad). Had you calculated
how such expense (at least over $1K, I'd guess) would come out from the
median income (worth few hundred dollars gross per month), you could've
judged how typical that picture was - but you didn't let such minor
details disturb your belief in being precisely aware of the situation
;-<...

 Can't we rather talk about cuisine, even with sour creme over everything
if you so wish ;-(?!

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!



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At 12:56 PM 7/21/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>Governments borrow money.  Then the 'powers that be' (money lenders,
>perhaps?) raise the interest rate.  Even a small increase can mean a sudden,
>huge deficit for many governments.  Then, the right-wing ideologues blame
>the deficit on the poor or the disadvantaged who are getting financial help
>from the government.  Meanwhile, the original money-lenders are having a
>field day with all their extra earnings.  It's a nice scam, if ever there
>was one!

Who are the "governments"? I think it's all of us. After all the government
is our representative, we elect them, we fire them.

Who are the money lenders? It's also all of us. When you put your money in a
savings account, the bank lends it to others, that's how they make money on
it and are able to pay your interest. When you buy shares of a bond mutual
fund that invests in Hungary, you are the one who gets the interest.

Loans that governments borrow at are usually at fixed rate. If they are at
variable rate, then they usually follow the inflation. Wouldn't you want
your bank to pay you more interest on your deposit if inflation goes up?

Gabor D. Farkas

Here is a posting I sent in yesterday to the Forum (to appear tomorrow):

Start quote:

NPA wrote:

"I am questioning again, as I did twice already, where did Farkas see such
laws in Germany in the given time frame? [he is talking abut laws that
legitimized the Holocaust]. I am requesting documents.

Since Farkas is not able to name such documents, it is clear, that his
statement is built on hate, rather than historical facts."

Since I work (I did not resign) nowadays I only have access to the Internet
on weekends.

The only thing I can recommend to NPA is to browse the documents of the
Nurneberg trials.

I can't wait to find out, which chapter of the Talmud or Tora actually
caused the Holocaust. And also, that the Nurenberg trials were caused by the
conspiracy of the zionist-bolshevik-freemasons. Those convicted in Nurenberg
were victims, and in fact Auschwitz was a mass-suicide, similar to that in
Jonestown, except that this was much more perfect since those who committed
suicide also burned themselves.

End quote.

Farkas D. Gabor

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On Sun, 21 Jul 1996, S or G Farkas wrote:
> > But then, Hungary can pay it back - according to both the borrowers and
> >the lenders. The real issue here is the terminally naive belief, implicit
> >in the vision of getting rid of the IMF, that she could just decide not to
> >pay back and then the debt will go away without any drawbacks for
> >declaring bankruptcy. Fortunately, most people are aware of the
> >consequences seen when Poland did that, and few would be willing to take
> >on the following hardships.
>
> I have very mixed feelings about this topic. I saw my friends and relatives
> almost starve to death when Ceausescu prepaid the loans Romania had from the
> world.
 Naturally, I share mixed feelings - one thing that does not come easily
is one-sided clearcut vision as to what would be the best ;-(. Besides my
Polish example I could've added yours too, perhaps even more vivid in the
memory of Hungarians. Romania proudly announced that they achieved
freedom from debt - but then they are left with a destitute population
AND an economy that couldn't get going without borrowing. The prospect of
getting there, with the added burden of declaring bankruptcy along the
way, would certainly not be the paradise - nor is it seen so by the alleged
majority who'd line up behind the plan - promised by the
let's-just-throw-the-debt-away ideologues...

> And I see Hungary going through terrible times, partially because the loans
> it took.
 That's undeniable - that's why it's so an attractive fodder for demagogy
;-<.

> Two thoughts:
>
> 1. If it is so hard to pay those loans back, maybe they should not have been
> taken.
 True - but then this is water under the bridge now, isn't it.

> 2. If it is so hard to pay those loans back, maybe the terms should be
> extended, or some other means should be found to make the burden less
> overwhelming. This should be done with the clear understanding that the
> choice is between less pain for longer time or more pain for a shorter time.

 I think to a certain degree some easing of the terms is happening.
Overall not too much is to be realistically expected, however - remember,
this is capitalism. Much relief can only result in from the lenders
forgoing some of their interest gain, which they count on when giving
loans - why on earth would they be willing to do that out of the goodness
of their hearts? When they did it to Poland (as well as to other
countries) that was only because those borrowers could in no way pay back,
so the lenders had to settle with what they could; and arguably they got
some more back in terms of the countries' assets sold to them below value
and heavier interest burden on the loans provided afterwards.
 Which leads me to pointing out the most puzzling aspect of so many
Hungarian-Americans pushing for the half-baked idea of requesting debt
forgiveness: they should be the ones knowing best how much, if intangible,
is the value of one's creditworthiness. Since the probability of the West
not requiring their money back is negligible in any case, all this can
achieve is damage the country's fame as the most reliable debtor!

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, Peter A. Soltesz wrote:

> Come on Zoli, I have to agree with Eva Balogh...
> The essence of the story is that if were in a similar situation
> in hungary (or for that matter most anywhere else) you would have
> NEVER made it.  That is the difference between America (Canada Inlcuded)
> and most other nations in the world. It has to do with opportunity.

 Well, somehow I was getting exactly the opposite spin out of it - that
is, you wouldn't need the riches of America in your reach if you worked as
hard, for enduring a little hardship you'd create opportunity for
yourself. This is manifestly untrue for many people in many places, and I
don't think Eva grasps that (which is why I made my remark in the first
place) - but I'd be happy to stand corrected.

> I congratulate Eva for making it!  Without the doles of this world....

 I congratulation her too. This however doesn't change the fact that
having the opportunity of getting room and board in exchange for
housekeeping, then the prospect of collecting convenient middle-class
salary after a few years of studying is neither the most difficult thing
one can go thru in life, nor is something unsupported by the wealth coming
from the underlying society...

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!



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On Sun, 21 Jul 1996, Auphanim wrote:

> Can anyone tell me the etymology of my surname, and what exactly it
> "translates" to in the Hungarian language??????

The word is of Slavic origin and translates to "weaver". The "takacs"
made linen using a hand loom.

> There have been many family intrepretations, and I'd appreciate an
> authentic origin.  Can anyone point in the right direction for surname
> research?????

There is a good book in Hungarian about the subject:
Ka'lma'n Be'la: A nevek vila'ga. Gondolat Kiado, 1967

Barna Bozoki

Hi All!

Some months ago, there was some interest in acquiring information on the
Hungarian Kayak and Canoe Team, Atlanta bound.  While in Hungary, I visited
their training camp at Dunavarsany - all are looking great, if not better.
All are excited and full of hope for the races.

Ko"ba'n Rita is racing K1 and K2
Mednya'nyszki Szilvia (Ege'r) K2 and K4

Cigany Kinga, Do'nusz E'va, Ko"ba'n Rita, Mednya'nyszki Szilvia - K4
Kovacs Katalin and Terhes Beatrix (don't know what they will race)

Koban eliminated Ba'nkuti Judit.  Above is female team.

Horva'th Csaba (C2 1000m and C2 500m) - promised me two golds!!!
Kolonics Gyo"rgy  ditto
Pulai Imre C1 500m
Zala Gyo"rgy C1 1000m
Szuszko La'szlo', Hu"ttner Csaba (Hu"tti)

Antal Zolta'n K1
Kammerer Zolta'n K1-1000m
Alma'si Peter K2-1000m
Hegedu"s Ro'bert K2 1000m
Horva'th Ga'bor K4 1000m
Csipes Ferenc K4 1000m
Rajna Andra's K4-1000m
Ba'rtfai Krisztia'n K2 500m
Adrovics Attila K4 1000m
Gyulai Zsolt K2-500m

Aside from my fav, being above, Hungary is represented in Table Tennis,
Gymnastics, Athletics, Wrestling, Rowing, Basketball, Biking, Soccer,
Riding, High Jumping, Weights, Tennis, Badminton, Boxing, Swimming, Sailing,
Sport shooting, Fencing, Water Polo, and some I only in Hungarian - O"ttusa,
Cselga'ncs, I'ja'szat and Ritmikus Sportgimnasztika.  If anyone is
interested in knowing the names, let me know privately.  I have the entire
Hungarian Olympic Team Roster in my possession.

All the best!
Aniko Dunford

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{I am posting this in mixed languages - my apologies, but this way is the 
easiest to handle this for me-, to SCM, TIPP and HUNGARY; please reply t 
me via email, if you would!}

 Valaki megkert, hogy tudok-e segiteni az alabbi keressel:
egy kilens evvel ezelott elhunyt csaladtag utolso cimet szeretnek 
megtalalni, de csak a halalozasi bizonyitvany all rendelkezesre 
informacio gyanant. Hogyan lehetne elerni a Tarsadalombiztositot (ha 
ok meg tudjak mondani), es mennyi idobe telhet valaszt kapni?
 Ha valaki tud valaszolni, kerem tegye meg a  cimen (az 
elterebelyesedett TIPP atbongeszesere mar reg nincsen idom, sajnos ;-()!

> Maybe the subject could be:  ASKING YOUR HELP...    Would anyone in 
> Budapest be able to call the Office of Social Security?  I know the 
> exact date of death for a family member, but I want to find out what 
> her address was in Budapest prior to her death nine years ago.  My 
> question is:  if a letter requesting this information is handed in at 
> their office, or mailed directly to them, how long would it take to 
> process it?

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!



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{I am posting this in mixed languages - my apologies, but this way is the
easiest to handle this for me-, to SCM, TIPP and HUNGARY; please reply t
me via email, if you would!}

 Valaki megkert, hogy tudok-e segiteni az alabbi keressel:
egy kilens evvel ezelott elhunyt csaladtag utolso cimet szeretnek
megtalalni, de csak a halalozasi bizonyitvany all rendelkezesre
informacio gyanant. Hogyan lehetne elerni a Tarsadalombiztositot (ha
ok meg tudjak mondani), es mennyi idobe telhet valaszt kapni?
 Ha valaki tud valaszolni, kerem tegye meg a  cimen (az
elterebelyesedett TIPP atbongeszesere mar reg nincsen idom, sajnos ;-()!

> Maybe the subject could be:  ASKING YOUR HELP...    Would anyone in
> Budapest be able to call the Office of Social Security?  I know the
> exact date of death for a family member, but I want to find out what
> her address was in Budapest prior to her death nine years ago.  My
> question is:  if a letter requesting this information is handed in at
> their office, or mailed directly to them, how long would it take to
> process it?

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!



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At 10:36 AM 7/21/96 -0700, Gabor D. Farkas wrote:

>Who are the "governments"? I think it's all of us. After all the government
>is our representative, we elect them, we fire them.
>
>Who are the money lenders? It's also all of us. When you put your money in a
>savings account, the bank lends it to others, that's how they make money on
>it and are able to pay your interest. When you buy shares of a bond mutual
>fund that invests in Hungary, you are the one who gets the interest.
>
>Loans that governments borrow at are usually at fixed rate. If they are at
>variable rate, then they usually follow the inflation. Wouldn't you want
>your bank to pay you more interest on your deposit if inflation goes up?

Lets not get bogged down with definitions and philosophy.  That only
obfuscates the fact that money is flowing from the poor to the rich.  It's
the trickle down theory in reverse.   And it really is the best scam going.
The money lenders get to keep the increased booty and the poor/disadvantaged
become the fall guys for 'our' economic problems.

Joe Szalai

>Andy Kozma wrote:
>
>>Ok.so I don't ask,but what are you doing otherwise?Do you spend your
>>time now in front of the computer,whatching whatis wrongwith someones
>>writing?Or just write to the Forum and the Hungary list?
>>Is this too personal also? A.K.
>
>Of course it is!
>
>NPA.
>
>Would you be so kind and tell me what is not too personal for you?I just
wonder after
all the "dirty laundry" exposed by you and others what is so personal about
my question?
Please akse me the same questions and I will gladly awnser all of it
honestly without any neccesitiy to "snoop".
A.K.

At 03:54 PM 7/21/96 -0400, Joe Szalai  wrote:

>Lets not get bogged down with definitions and philosophy.  That only
>obfuscates the fact that money is flowing from the poor to the rich.  It's
>the trickle down theory in reverse.   And it really is the best scam going.
>The money lenders get to keep the increased booty and the poor/disadvantaged
>become the fall guys for 'our' economic problems.

Joe, I did not intend to define anything or to insert any philosophy. All I
did was to list facts.

And the fact is that the devil in this case is all of us.

And those greedy money lenders can be easily tricked: don't borrow. Or
borrow only under the terms favorable to you. After all if no one borrows,
the lender will starve.

Gabor D. Farkas

Farkas wrote:

>NPA wrote:
>"I am questioning again, as I did twice already, where did Farkas see such
>laws in Germany in the given time frame? [he is talking abut laws that
>legitimized the Holocaust]. I am requesting documents.
>Since Farkas is not able to name such documents, it is clear, that his
>statement is built on hate, rather than historical facts."

First of all, Farkas is importing his argument to the list of Hungary.
Secondly explains my question in his own way.  Look above the sentence
in parenthesis which is the doing of Farkas. That is a nasty twist.
I was asking Farkas to come up, with the very law, the enacted law, which
calls for genocide! I was not talking about legitimization! I was talking
about the very law, behind the murders. According to Farkas there were such
laws! I asked him to bring them into my attention.

>Since I work (I did not resign) nowadays I only have access to the Internet
>on weekends.

In that case it is a great task to post articles on the daily bases during
the weekends! :-)

>The only thing I can recommend to NPA is to browse the documents of the
>Nurneberg trials.

So I did. But would Farkas should come up with the proof? So far I could not
help Farkas to find such a law! We are not talking about the very fact of
atrocities and genocide here. We are only talking about enacted, existing
laws, ordering such atrocities.

>I can't wait to find out, which chapter of the Talmud or Tora actually
>caused the Holocaust.

Is Farkas playing stupid here? Or he has such views? That was a very poor
provocation. This ticket expired already. :-)

>And also, that the Nurenberg trials were caused by the conspiracy of the
>zionist-bolshevik-freemasons. Those convicted in Nurenberg were victims,
>and in fact Auschwitz was a mass-suicide, similar to that in Jonestown,
>except that this was much more perfect since those who committed
>suicide also burned themselves.

So Farkas got stuck in his own argument, and throws all the primitive provo-
cations right on me. Good try Mr. Farkas, but I am not going to fall for
this trap. Try that somewhere else. Meanwhile dig up that law for me, will
you?

NPA.

At 01:32 PM 7/21/96 -0700, Gabor D. Farkas wrote:

>Joe, I did not intend to define anything or to insert any philosophy. All I
>did was to list facts.
>
>And the fact is that the devil in this case is all of us.
>
>And those greedy money lenders can be easily tricked: don't borrow. Or
>borrow only under the terms favorable to you. After all if no one borrows,
>the lender will starve.

OK.  So, if we don't borrow money, the construction industry collapses, the
auto industry collapses, etc., etc..  We've already gone through this
scenario earlier today.

If you really, truly want a healthy capitalist economy, then you should be
telling people, and governments, to borrow beyond their means.  Anything
less and the system contracts.  Wouldn't you agree?

Joe Szalai

Andy Kozma wrote:

>Would you be so kind and tell me what is not too personal for you?I just
>wonder after all the "dirty laundry" exposed by you and others what is so
>personal about my question?
>Please akse me the same questions and I will gladly awnser all of it
>honestly without any neccesitiy to "snoop". A.K.

Oh come on Mr. Kozma! Did not you start to throw that dirty laundry around
few day ago? Do you want me to quote you?
I don't care what you do with your own time, and I don't expect you to care
about mine either. Mind your own business and care about political, historical
or social topics conducted here. Whenever you start questioning me, about
my own business, I can tell you to buzz off my private life! I hope I made
my point clear!?

NPA.

At 06:18 PM 7/21/96 -0400, Joe Szalai  wrote:

>OK.  So, if we don't borrow money, the construction industry collapses, the
>auto industry collapses, etc., etc..  We've already gone through this
>scenario earlier today.
>
>If you really, truly want a healthy capitalist economy, then you should be
>telling people, and governments, to borrow beyond their means.  Anything
>less and the system contracts.  Wouldn't you agree?

No. The system has a tendency to get into an equilibrium. If your assumption
is correct (that those who lend money make excessive profits), then if fewer
borrow, they (the lenders) will reduce the rates to get their profits
through volume.

Borrowing beyond anyone's means leads to tragedy and no one can recommend it.

Gabor D. Farkas

At 09:40 AM 7/20/96 -0700, Gabor Farkas wrote:

>At 11:47 AM 7/20/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>
>>Traditionally, Sunday dinner was the most important meal of the week at our
>>house.  It was served at noontime and we almost always had guests, or,
>>conversely, we were guests at someone's home.  I loved Sunday dinners
>>because  the food was good and it was predictable.  We always had chicken
>>noodle soup followed by either fried chicken or breaded veal/pork cutlets
>>with rice or mashed potatoes and a side dish of cucumber salad.  The meal
>>was finished with some homemade pastry, cookies, or cake.
>
>Joe,
>
>Your mother and mine had to know each other because our Sunday dinners were
>identical.
>
>Gabor D. Farkas

        You can add the Balogh household to the list.

        Eva B.

At 09:53 AM 7/20/96 -0700, Norma Rudinsky wrote:
>The mothers of Joe and Gabor must have got around, because (though my own
>English and Welsh family dinners were different) in Banska Stiavnica my
>Slovak in-laws' Sunday dinners were the same.  And the cucumber salad was made
>with peeled sliced cucumbers in vinegar and water, salted, peppered, and
>red with paprika?


        Oh, yes, the cucumber salad was made with peeled sliced (very thinly
sliced! cucumber in vinegar and water (little sugar added), salt, pepper and
paprika dusted on the top of it. Occasionally, sliced green peppers were
added for decoration.

        Eva B.

Farkas D writes:
> Being a nazi is an equal opportunity position. As far as I am concerned,
> based on what Farrakhan preaches about Jews, and whites in general, he
> qualifies.
Maybe we should talk here about the racism of nazis. In their
hierarchy of races, the black man did not come up as first.
A black guy wo is nazi... it's kind of self-contradictory
statement.

Mr Farrakhan organized the Million Men March recently, and
nobody in his right mind could call the speaker of this
monstre event to be a nazi.

I am not a big fan of Mr Farrakhan, actually I consider him
an agressive Muslim nationalist, while I'm a peace loving
Christian. So I do not have any particular reason to like him.
But I believe, nazi is not a good code word for him.

In my opinion it is a lazy entellectuel behavior that instead
of diving deep in your mind and showing up the real explanation
of things, you create a special role (a Big Bag) for a hate
word, like 'nazi' and pack everyone and everything into it
whatever on earth you do not like. It is simply the lazyness
of your mind, and you should not be proud of it.

Why don't you point out, that centuries of racial oppression
against the black people created the agressive nationalistic
response?
                                                    Sz. Zoli

At 08:35 AM 7/21/96 +0100, Paolo Agostini wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 17:20:07 GMT ANDREW ROZSA > wrote:
>
>>Besides 'szilva lekva'r,' there was another lekva'r, made from
>>rosehips, that was staple food in Transylvania. It also has large
>>quantities of ascorbic acid. Does anyone remember the name of rosehips
>>lekva'r?
>
>In literary Hungarian its name is "csipkebogyo-lekvar".
>The popular name for rose-hips is "hecsedli", and the jam made with it is
>better known under the popular name of "hecsedli lekvar".
>The vulgar name of this jam, i.e. "hecsepecs" (sometimes "hecsenpecs"
>with an extra n added), is slowly dwindling away.
>(FIY, both words hecsepecs and hecsedli are of German origin).

        What do you think an Italian who knows Hungarian better than we do!!
I am terribly impressed.

        Eva B.

In the Monday issue of Nepszabadsag an editorial (or is it op-ed?) deals
with the fact that a hill on Buda is over-built by three, four and even five
level single family houses on plots so small, that practically all
vegetation is gone. According to the writer all this is due to the lack of
regulation.

Is this true? Did the rules of the jungle (or, rather, lack of it) take over
in this area or was it always like this?

Gabor D. Farkas

Here is the recipe for the oft mentioned Cucumber Salad (Uborkasala'ta).
It's taken from George Lang's "The Cuisine of Hungary".
----------
4 servings

2 medium-sized or large cucumbers
1 teaspoon salt
1 medium-sized onion
1 teaspoon sweet paprika
1/4 cup white vinegar
Pinch of sugar
1/2 cup water

1. Peel cucumbers and cut them into thin slices.  If they are very ripe,
remove seeds.  Mix with the salt, making sure that every slice is salted.
Add more salt if needed.  Let the slices stand for 30 minutes or, if you
have time, for as long as 2 hours.

2. Meantime, peel the onion and cut into hair-thin slices.  Place in a
mixing bowl and add the sugar, paprika, vinegar and 1/2 cup water.

3. By now the cucumbers will have released almost a cup of liquid.  With
your hand press out as much as you can from the slices.  Discard the liquid.

4. Put the cucumber slices into the bowl with the onion dressing.  Mix well.
Since the cucumbers have already been salted, it's possible that you won't
need to add any, but if necessary add up to 1/2 teaspoon.  Adjust vinegar
and water according to your taste for vinegar.

5. Serve in individual glass or porcelain salad dishes.

NOTE:  This is exactly the way my family made cucumber salad, although many
Hungarian homes mixed cucumbers with sour cream, or with oil and vinegar, or
with sweet-and-sour dressing.  This is a deceptively simple recipe with a
surprisingly individual taste.
----------

Joe Szalai

At 03:42 PM 7/21/96 -0700, Gabor D. Farkas wrote:

>No. The system has a tendency to get into an equilibrium. If your assumption
>is correct (that those who lend money make excessive profits), then if fewer
>borrow, they (the lenders) will reduce the rates to get their profits
>through volume.
>
>Borrowing beyond anyone's means leads to tragedy and no one can recommend >it.

Oh yeah!  It's a tragedy for many, but (or should that be 'because' or
perhaps 'and'?) it's a huge financial windfall for some.  Yes, "the system
has a tendency to get into an equilibrium", but with each new equilibrium
the concentration of wealth is in fewer hands.  And don't worry about the
money lenders.  Through excessive profits, or greater volume, they *will*
make their profits.

Joe Szalai

At 08:14 PM 7/21/96 -0400, Zoltan Szekely > wrote:

>Mr Farrakhan organized the Million Men March recently, and
>nobody in his right mind could call the speaker of this
>monstre event to be a nazi.

Why not? Is it the size?

>I am not a big fan of Mr Farrakhan, actually I consider him
>an agressive Muslim nationalist, while I'm a peace loving
>Christian. So I do not have any particular reason to like him.
>But I believe, nazi is not a good code word for him.

Nazi is not a code word. It  is what he is, very directly. Code words are
used when the real meaning is covered up.

>In my opinion it is a lazy entellectuel behavior that instead
>of diving deep in your mind and showing up the real explanation
>of things, you create a special role (a Big Bag) for a hate
>word, like 'nazi' and pack everyone and everything into it
>whatever on earth you do not like. It is simply the lazyness
>of your mind, and you should not be proud of it.

There are many other things I don't like and I don't pack them into this
"Big Bag". As the thread is called, I call only nazis nazis.

>Why don't you point out, that centuries of racial oppression
>against the black people created the agressive nationalistic
>response?

I acknowledge that blacks in America were slaves, were oppressed, are still
discriminated against, etc. This does not justify the hateful message
Farrakhan is spreading. Not all whites are or were doing it and Farrakhan's
message appeared when the oppression and discrimination were at a historical
low point.

By the way, can you please add some Hungarian content to this thread if you
plan to continue it?

Gabor D. Farkas