Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 741
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-07-28
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 The Nemenyi files (mind)  119 sor     (cikkei)
2 I call only nazis nazis (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
3 I call only nazis nazis. (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
4 How about an agreed-upon definition of "anti-semitism?" (mind)  56 sor     (cikkei)
5 The Nemenyi files (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
6 The Nemenyi files (mind)  46 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Food - comfort and otherwise - (mind)  94 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: A growing list (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: NPA -- the saga continues (mind)  111 sor     (cikkei)
10 The Twilight Zone (mind)  58 sor     (cikkei)
11 OLYMPIC BOMBINGS (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: A growing list (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: The Twilight Zone (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
15 NPA -- the saga continues (mind)  147 sor     (cikkei)
16 The Twilight Zone (mind)  46 sor     (cikkei)
17 The Twilight Zone (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
18 I call only nazis nazis (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
20 I call only nazis nazis (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: How about an agreed-upon definition of "anti-semiti (mind)  60 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: How about (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
23 Jokes (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
24 Jokes (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
25 Hungarian Jokes (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
26 I wish to export computers to hungary (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: NPA -- the saga continues (mind)  68 sor     (cikkei)
28 Re: The list is growing (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
29 Re: A growing list (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
30 Re: New Thread / Same Old Topic (mind)  52 sor     (cikkei)
31 Re: A growing list (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
32 Re: A growing list (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
33 Re: NPA--the saga continues (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
34 Re: How about (Nemenyi) (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
35 Re: The Nemenyi files (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
36 Re: How about (Nemenyi) (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
37 Re: The Nemenyi files (mind)  61 sor     (cikkei)
38 Re: Hemp (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)

+ - The Nemenyi files (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

  wrote:


>>#1 Is Nemenyi willfully posting untruths?

>To me this does not seem worth pursuing; he clearly posts things that
>are mostly unsupported (and some unprovable), partly untrue - but whether
>he himself believes his rationalizations could not be objectively discussed.

Not long ago a member of Hungary posted on Forum, that I was not even forced
out of ANL. but I quit because of lack of work. And in the same time there
were false rumors about firing my boss, because of my activities at ANL.
Is not strange, that my boss is in trouble because I left, due to lack of
work? :-)

>>#2 Has his right of free expression been violated by some "Secret Police"
>>type      activity  on the part of those who dislike what he said?

>His right of expression has not been violated, as should be obvious from
>seeing him able to post thru interaccess. (It was remarkable that early in
>the campaign the absurd claim of him somehow gotten altogether banished
>from the Internet surfaced - but it may have been someone other than NPA
>who came up with that statement.)

Mr. Fekete  misinterprets the original question. If anyone is getting punished
for his expressions, than it constitutes the definition of violation of free
expression. And I like the insinuations as well about what I "absurdly claimed"
.
Please check your database before you quote from me!

>There's nothing "Secret Police" type in knowing that institutions often
>disallow misusing their computers this way, nor in recognizing what
>anl.gov stands for (and of course his posts were out in plain public view
>for all to see, no 'spying' needed). If you bought his line that this
>required some detective work, then there's your answer to #1.

ANL. never cared about postings written in Hungarian. There are some "SECRET"
RATs who are sending letters to ANL. & DOE. denouncing an employee of ANL.
with the intent to harm him. Now this "SECRET" - people became a police force
without hire. And for the shame of ANL. & DOE. they excepted this service and
acted accordingly. I can call those "SECRET" because ANL. & DOE. is flatly
refusing to discuss anything about them.

>What happened is that his assumed right to expressing himself by using
>anl.gov got revoked; but then free press has always belonged to those who
>owned one - and particularly these days when getting your own 'press' (ie.
>personal Internet account) is as trivial as accepting one of those AOL
>trial disks, it's bizarre to demand that employers provide one when they
>don't want to.

ANL. could have been giving me a written notice forbidding further commu-
nication on their system, or simply revoke my account. But remember, they
attacked me for antisemitism, pornographic dealings, break ins, etc. They
spelled out to me, that I embarrassed their firm. So the point above are
quite miserable.


>>#3 Was there malicious intent to hurt by those who made inquiries at his
>>place of       employment?

>Presumably there was by some, assuming things like false accusation of
>handling porn did indeed happen.

Oh my. How come that suddenly Mr. Fekete believes this fact presented by
me?

>But then the truthfulness of such claims would have been trivial to check
>by the admins - false information could not hurt him, and the truth could
>only hurt insofar as it was against him already (as a consequence of his
>breaking a contract he signed).

The only problem is, that I was called by many of my co - workers after the
case and they reported me, that there is a rumor about my dismissal because
of being a Nazi. No harm of course ! And what the hell does it have to do
with my signed contract, which became void after the APS. memo urging the
APS. employees of exploring Internet?

>Regardless of what third parties might have said, actions (if any taken)
>by the employer should be based on what they see, not merely what they are
>told; they could find and see for themselves the inappropriate use in any
>case without outside help, so it's only NPA himself who could've prevented
>facing the consequences - by not violating the policy in the first place.

I repeat once more. The policy worth nothing. It was made void, by APS. order
which contradicted it. There were no previous actions of such kind before.
There were no prior written warning in this case. There were no second chance.
At the meeting with HR. I was suggested, that the whole thing is nothing but
a punishment suggested by DOE. And it is not hard to see. I was politically
uncorrect, and I had to pay the price for it.

>>#4 Should we, as Americans,  consider this an acceptable means of attack
>>upon       those with whom we disagree?

>Based on everything we've heard so far there was no attack.

Mr. Fekete should know better. He is posting from the very same remailer,
from where anybody can send whistle blower letters and his buddy Gabor
Fencsik actually posted his hate mails to Forum and GOD knows ;-) to
where else!!!!!!!

>In any case, either you have freedom of speech or you don't.

It seems, you DON'T! Or let me put it better. Some of us might have!

>If you want to have it, how and why are you proposing to block those
>opinions you don't like - such as perhaps a possible suggestion that it
>may be improper to publish from a government-sponsored site posts which
>are considered rabid racist remarks by some readers?

And how about those readers who are not offended by my articles? Who are
to judge my position on different issues? It seems, that ANL. volunteered
to become such a judge. And that is wrong! If I would have been comprehended
because of private usage of their computer and nothing else, I would not
have raised my protest. But I was punished because of a nameless letter or
two claiming, that I was antisemite among other things. So I repeat: Mr. Fekete
is trying to put into this case a twist, and he is doing it for self serving
purpose!

NPA.
+ - I call only nazis nazis (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Farkas wrote:

>>>I thought we were talking about Farrakhan and not about the
>>>other participants.

>>Whatever has happened with collective responsibility? :-)

>Mr. Nemenyi is confusing me with somebody. I never advocated "collective
>responsibility" for anything. But so what's new? Nemenyi throws in a remark,
>as usually, unfounded.

I never mentioned, that Mr. Farkas did. I was merely asking a question.
But instead of getting  answer, He plays hurt!      So I ask once more
without implying that Mr. Farkas ever advocated such views, ....

Whatever has happened with collective responsibility?

I hope I made my question simple?

NPA.
+ - I call only nazis nazis. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Mr. Farkas thinks he found something, so he wrote:

>>The only reason why Farrakhan's movement is labeled lately fascist
>>is, because he has great differences with the Jewish community.
>>Calling Farrakhan is an antisemite is counterproductive, because he
>>and his people took a religion so typical of semites.

>Here is (for Cecilia and Ferengi) an example of the way Nemenyi's
>antisemitism shows. Nemeny is an avid reader of everything related to Jews
>(at least that's my conclusion, since most of his quotes are on this topic).
>Therefore, to call Farrakhan's statements as having "great differences with
>the Jewish community" is equivalent to calling Funar an "ideological
>opponent of Hungarians" (at least some Hungarian connection).
>An someone saying that a Moslem cannot be an antisemite because Islam
>originated among arabs, a semite people,  is the most ridiculous statement.
>Antisemites, like Nemenyi use it often, although it is a fact that  the
>word antisemitism is used to mean anti-Jewish.

Gabor Farkas is really trying hard. So let me go line by line: I am interested
Jewish issues, and Christian issues, and Moslem issues, and I like to scuba
diving. So the last three are ok. but the first interest? I see! I am guilty
of being to nosy! Oh and something else ! I was partially educated of Jewish
issues by Jewish teacher in my younger years.

And I hardly believe, that Mr. Farrakhan is Anti -  Arab! And is here anyone
who would dispute, that the Arabs are semite people?  So  how can Farrakhan
be Anti - Arab and Anti - Jew in the same time? And I don't even want to
touch on the famous book of a Hungarian Jews, Arthur Koestler ~ The Thirteenth
Tribe, because then we would argue about the differences between the Askhenazim
and the Sephardim. Mr. Farkas is trying to prove that if we define the Earth
square from now, than it will become square.
Antisemitism by definition is exactly what it is. An opposition against semite
people. If you want to call Mr. Farrakhan Anti - Jew, so be it! But Antisemite?
That is not quite an exact definition. So if Mr. Farkas wanted to prove my
Antisemitism by the above, than he failed miserably. Furthermore it wasn't
enough to prove my Anti - Jewishness either. Try again.

NPA.
+ - How about an agreed-upon definition of "anti-semitism?" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Farkas wrote:

>Nemeny still has contacts in the gov., the National Archives are sending
>him his own extracts.

So? But what do you mean by "his own extracts" ? Are you accusing the
National Archives of any wrong doings?

>So what? Who was Captain Montgomery Schuyler? If he calls Jews anti-russian
>race, does that mean it is true? What selection of Archives material is
>Nemenyi quoting from? The one compiled by The Arian Nation?

You don't know? I thought I am arguing with someone with historycal knowledge.
He was a Captain in the American Expeditionary Forces in charge of reporting
intelligence informations towards the Office of the Chief of Staff ~
Intelligence
Section.
I don't know if Mr. Schuyler was right or wrong. That is not the issue. The
issue is, that there were informations pointing out for me, that a large body
of foreign interest was involved in the Bolshevik Revolution. And if there
were far too many Jews in power, it still doesn't mean, that all of the Jews,
but it means, a large percentage of them. We can go to two different ways in
this issue:

1; Simply shut off the discussion and toss around labels as antisemite or..
2: Make a head count in the leadership.

If we conclude that there were really a great number of certain race or
religion
involved, it still means nothing because......

There are more Jews who hate Communism than those who love it. So what is the
point of hiding something that has no point what so ever? And about the
insinuation as " compiled by The Arian Nation" , let me just note, it was a
copy by the National Archives of the United States!

>>This document were declassified on the 27th of 1953. Anybody can obtain such
>>documents now.

>Nemenyi again implies one of his conspiracy theories. Some Jews kept this
>until now from public scrutiny, obviously. What's with that date, anyway,
>the 27th of 1953?

Mr. Farkas reads too much into my articles. I meant nothing like he suggests.
Not even a hint. I meant, anybody can obtain ~ meaning....it can be purchased,
so it exist! That simple!

>>See my stand is different. I research history, not like Eva Balogh, who copie
s
>>all the orthodox views of politically correct explanations of history.

>Yes, Nemenyi does research, very, very selectively.

Don't you think your accusation asked for it?

NPA.
+ - The Nemenyi files (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Farkas wrote:

>>If NPA is, in fact an anti-semite, then I need to be corrected. But, he
>>says that he is not.

>Hereby I correct you. He says he is not, but his postings contradict him. If
>you need hard proof, go into the Forum archive and read all his postings
>(and he had plenty, a large portion of them posted between 10Am and 3PM from
>his anl.gov Internet account).

Hereby I correct Mr. Farkas. He is wrong and he is anti- Nemenyi. :-)
And it seems, I am labeled anti - semite, because I wrote in Forum and
mainly because I posted my articles between 10am and 3Pm from a Gov. account!

NPA.
+ - The Nemenyi files (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Farkas wrote:

>Nemeny was not fired, he resigned (if we were to believe him). If someone
>is so sure of the righteousness of his cause, then he does not resign but
>fight. Why didn't Nemenyi fight?

Corection. He wasn't resigning. He was forced to do so. Big difference!
I mentioned the details far too many times, Mr. Farkas can read previous
postings on this platform, if his memory is failing on him!

>No. Except if company policies clearly prohibit it.

Prohibit what? Free speech ?

>I also think Nemenyi generalizes too easily (as usually, see Jews).

Does the word "Jews" mean all of them? Does "Hungarians" mean all of
them? Because if it does, than we are going to open up a new can of
worms.

>The main problem was that he was working for a government organization,
>financed by our tax money.

It is wrong again as usual. The Argonne Proton Source was a profit organi-
zation project.

>He was stealing from all of us (US taxpayers). This wasn't about all US
>firms. A private company can decide to do whatever it wishes, a government
>entity has less latitude.

Besides the point, that the project was a profit work, for my free time as
lunch and break Mr. Farkas doesn't pay a penny. If he is so concerned
about tax money, he should check out where the bulk of it go. I can start
a great argument on this issue! And the National Labs and Universities were
the very ones, responsible of the evolution of Internet. That is why it is
unheard, that someone gets fired for private Internet usage on either Lab's
or University's computers.

And Mr. Farkas mentioned private firms. If the output of those firms suffer
because of so called stolen computer - time, than the over all price of
those goods will rise, and make the general public suffer.

Furthermore inflation will rise and Mr. Farkas will be upset and really
angry. Furthermore.......but I don't want to scare anyone!!!!! :-)

NPA.
+ - Re: Food - comfort and otherwise - (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

So, what is your own personal recipe for palinka?  There's a new thread.

Norma Rudinsky



On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Tony and Celia Becker wrote:

> Dear Group;
>
> At 11:33 AM 7/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >On Jul 25, 10:31am, Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq wrote:
> >> Subject: Re: Food - comfort and otherwise -
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>
> >> On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Amos J. Danube wrote:
> >> >        How about adding zoldborsoleves (sweat pea soup) to the grow-
> >>
> >>  That with liver dumplings is a real winner :-)!
> >
> >      Right you are, Zoli. Just shows you how long it has been, I have
> >      almost forgotten about it.
> >                                   Amos
> >
> >
> Oh goodie!  This thread is still going.  Heellllp!  I need more recipes for
> what to do with sausages--soon!
>
> At the WRTC-96, at the last social (hosted by the Slovenians, who were not
> familiar with this area), I helped out by buying out half the stock of
> Polaner Deli (they sell Polish, Hungarian and Croatian sausages, salamis and
> cold cuts made both in Chicago (by the East European communities there) and
> in East Europe and bringing it to the social (well, there were nearly 400
> people...)
>
> My darling husband who loves sausages too, decided to hold a "few pounds in
> reserve"--and didn't tell me until after the event.  I found the sausages
> when unpacking at home.  He forgot that my cousin had also brought me
> sausages from the Hungarian shop in Toledo--and that we still had several
> pounds of those in the freezer, along with the meats from shopping just
> before we took a vacation and then worked on WRTC.  Needless to say, I am
> overwhelmed by sausage which should probably all be eaten within the next
> week or so...  (Hmmm, I wonder if this will be the title of the next Sue
> Grafton mystery: _Suicide by Sausage_)
>
> I need some more ideas besides several varieties of goulash, pea soup, beans
> (or bean soup) and sausage (combining with baked beans--what an insult to
> the sausages), and (worse) sausage and pasta-and-cheese (that's a polite
> description of what it could be called...)  We're talking mostly varieties
> of smoked kolbas.
>
> Regarding other comfort food: how about chicken noodle soup made with
> saffron, and poppy-seed rolls or kifli.
>
> Considering the chemical properties of saffron and poppy seeds (in the
> midwest and California we've literally had to warn people not to take drug
> tests after consuming any significant quantity of one or the other because
> of what happened when testing started getting very sophisticated...It made
> for a very humorous article once in the "Minneapolis Star and Tribune"), I
> think these _really_ qualify as "comfort foods."  Now you know how I've
> sometimes survived the stress of living in semi-sane Silicon Valley.--I
> often wonder if my late grandmother perfected these items to survive living
> with my overly political active grandfather, or was it when my more creative
> cousins and I began to get together on various antics of what she thought
> was an incredible variety... I seem to remember several incidents in
> particular that were followed by large quantities of chicken soup and poppy
> seed rolls, hmmm. :-)
>
> However, my personal choice for the best all-time comfort food, is one full
> ounce of 15 year old palinka--or "holy water" as my father nicknamed
> it--because in less than two seconds you thought you'd burned up from head
> to toe and gone to heaven...  Never had a hang-over from that stuff, either.
> Now does anyone sell something that wonderful anywhere???
>
> The Slovenian plum "aquavit" I tried at the WRTC isn't nearly as smoothe or
> tasty, and doesn't have quite the same effect.  No hangover with that
> either, but just not anywhere near as good.
>
> Cecilia L. Fa'bos-Becker
> San Jose, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA
>
+ - Re: A growing list (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Though lecso (leco with soft mark on c for SLovak/Czech) has many
variations, what makes it lecso, not just a vegetable dish?  I thought it
had to be green peppers and later tomatoes stirred into browned onions &
sausage slices (particularly hot spicy meat).  Should it be prepared
only in
the summer when fresh peppers and tomatoes are available?  (It was a
sort of sacrilege to use greenhouse stuff in midwinter.)  Is it those
three ingredients that make it lecso?  And is scrambling eggs into it just
for sissies?

  Once I bought
the wrong paprikas and literally they made a blue smoke when heated with
the meat.  The whole neighborhood was aware of my ignorant mistake.

Norma Rudinsky


On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Burian wrote:

> How about lecso?  I'm told there are different variations.  When people
> took me to restaurants in BP, they kept steering me to the "English"
> dishes.  And I kept shouting, "Bring me lecso!"  They said, "But that is a
> poor person's dish."  I said, "Then I qualify."  They could not believe
> any of this, but I got my lecso.
>
> Do only poor people eat this?  And what are the variation possibilities?
>
+ - Re: NPA -- the saga continues (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Felado :  [United States]
>
> That is great! So I ask Mr. Kornai: Does he mean, that HR. refused to admit
> any knowledge about the firing of my boss?
She wouldn't comment on it one way or the other.

> How come, that Eva Balogh passed
> info about it, way before it actually happened?
I'm sure she faithfully reported what she heard from her Argonne source.

> Oh by the way, NPA.'s boss was not laid off. He was fired after 23 years of
> clean service, just to stick to the facts!
Because he mismanaged you, or were other reasons cited?

> >Her answer was that for the first incident this would be true at
> >Argonne as well.  Needless to say, she couldn't and wouldn't tell me whether
> >there were prior incidents -- readers must draw their own conclusions.
>
> Thanks for the info. The last sentence is important!
And so is the one before it.

> Look, Joe Pannon and Mr. Bihari are not the only people, having the proof of
> my case.I care less, if you or anybody believes me, now.As you have seen ANL
> didn't want to show their cards, so why do you think I will? I simply don't
> trust you or your ilk.
So don't trust me, I never asked you to. Since I don't trust you either, I
asked for independent confirmation. You are not providing any, and what ANL
says contradicts a major point of your story: they say your resignation was
voluntary, you say it was forced. In the absence of evidence to the contrary
I belive them more than I belive you, it's that simple.

> Now look. The Hungarian Radio wanted my story. So I did not manage anything.
> They have all the needed info regarding to this case.
Have you heard of the principle "auditur et altera pars"? Roman law already
recognizes the fact that you can't get to the bottom of a case on the basis
of evidence supplied by one of the parties, you must also hear what the other
side has to say. Now that I took the trouble to hear what ANL says, it is
evident that you were (and still are) presenting a highly biased version.
Had Hungarian Radio taken the trouble to check things out with ANL, they would
have immadiately known that it is not a "va1llalat". I conclude they never
checked with ANL, and indeed they have relied on the biased evidence supplied
by one party, you.

> I have no idea, why you
> talk about ADL.I did not mention them as players of this case.
No, but Joe Pannon, who seems to be one of your trusted advocates, repeatedly
did.

> And about some
> suggestions, as ""some butter on his head" before this whole thing started,
> even if he was cited for good work." sounds veri libelous. Are you suggesting
> that I was guilty of any crime or wrongdoing by that time? Are you suggesting
> it Mr. Kornai? Speak up, or shut up!
What I'm suggesting is that it is possible that you had prior warnings from
your management about spending too much company time on the net, so when (and
if) complaints arrived they already had the case made by your behavior. This
is a _possible_ and, given the comments of the Human Resources manager at
Argonne, actually _highly probable_ scenario, but I am by no means presenting
it as absolute truth. Whether the probable or the improbable happened could
only be found out on the basis of testimony from your former boss, inspection
of your official record at Argonne, etc. I have no access to this kind of
evidence, and have no interest in searching for it.

Since you are the party harmed by Argonne's actions, or at least you claim to
be (nobody can blame others for harm caused by their own voluntary action) it
is in your interest to present some objective evidence supporting your case.
If you don't, it is again your _voluntary_ act not to seek redress. What I
said was: show me that you have a reasonable (not airtight, just reasonable)
case, and I will support your effort to obtain a fair hearing. Joe Pannon
might already be convinced that you have a case, but I am not. The fact that
you are focussing your anger on the person(s) of the mythical complainer(s)
rather than arguing the substance of the complaint(s) or the unfairness of the
Argonne process seems to indicate that ANL was on quite firm ground accepting
your resignation, and the union was on equally firm ground not going to bat
for you.

> Why the hell ADL. should run an investigations? Tell me?
I don't think they should do so. It's more in line for the ACLU, since they
routinely defend Ku Klux Klaners and other holders of objectionable views on
free speech grounds. In fact it is the civil libertarian in me that says that
make yourself in any way credible and I'll support your fight for restitution.
Hell, if Noam Chomsky lends his support to outright holocaust-revisionists
this way, I can certainly support your right to blood libel.  But make no
mistake, I _do_ find your views objectionable, in fact I think some of your
postings constitute defamation exactly in the sense the ADL cares most about,
anti-semitic defamation. So if the ACLU joined your action, chances are good
the ADL would join the other side. This, by itself, should make it worth your
while to proceed: after all, we don't often see these two organizations, both
pillars of the commie-pinko liber-bolshie judeo-plutocratic New York-Tel Aviv
conspiracy that already subverted the world, pitted against each other!-)

> You only snooped around without any success. Be proud of it.
What is this snooping bit? You encouraged people to look into the matter, and
both E1va Balogh and I did. Since our findings are not what you wanted to
hear, we are now both accused of snooping. You remind me of Gary Hart, who
positively encouraged journalists to follow him around and see how squeaky
clean his private life was. That was a classic case of "akinek vaj van a
feje1n ne menjen a napra" (literally: those with butter on their head should
not expose themselves to sunlight, figuratively: if you have something to hide
don't make yourself too conspicuous) and yours is shaping up as another one.

> And about Marx, we can have some arguments. Why not?!
E1va Balogh time and again finds it necessary to lend dignity to your opinions
by providing factual counterarguments. Perhaps this is because she is a
professional historian and can't stand the kind of distorted views you
espouse. But I'm more of a follower of the Henry Ford school of historical
thought (I don't mean his subsidizing the US publication of the Protocols of
the Elders of Zion) and can live with the idea that Marx was relevant for the
1848 revolutions. So what? Euro1pa csendes, u1jra csendes.

Andra1s Kornai
+ - The Twilight Zone (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dr Gyorgy Bathori writes:

> Yes! Could happen, that there is nothing "conspiracy" in the Nemenyi
> case. Maybe it is just the professional activity of the roumanian
> intelligent service. Formerly Bela Liptak successfully organized FAX
> and E-mail campaigns for the rights of the hungarian minority in
> Roumania. From that point the roumanian secret service ought to do
> something with the hungarian discussion groups. A deflamation could
> be a good case. May could happen that they wrote a letter to the DOE
> and that ANL in the name of a well known opponent of Mr. Nemenyi. As
> Mr Nemenyi managed to get the name of the letter writer, he became
> convinced that his opponent and the friends of them playing unfair
> cards. Now the various hungarian discussion groups are filled with
> accusations and counter accusations. The relations of the different
> contributor groups became antagonistic. The "danger" of joint actions
> diminished.

This theory at least has the virtue that it is not just another variant of
Mr Nemenyi's Revised Standard Version, whatever that might be nowadays.
I am afraid I am several episodes behind in this particular soap opera,
ever since I set up my bozo filter to send Mr Nemenyi's postings straight
to the bit bucket.  Dr Bathory is right: this case is long overdue for a
judicious application of Occam's razor.

The simplest, and most likely scenario is that Mr Nemenyi fell for the
classic investigative ploy known as the "snitch jacket".  The idea behind
this technique is to mask the real sources and methods of the investigation
by planting the notion of an informer in the target's mind, causing
disorientation, paranoia, and a fruitless search for snitches behind every
bush and under every bed.  The technique was extensively used in the sixties
and seventies in the course of the Cointelpro project, aimed at the
destruction of the SDS, the Black Panthers, and other leftist organizations.
It was wildly successful: the targets rapidly self-destructed in an orgy of
fratricidal witchhunts.  Although the Cointelpro program was eventually
discredited, many of its methods are still taught in courses for federal
investigators.  The investigators at Argonne have plenty of reasons to keep
their sources and methods to themselves, perhaps to protect other ongoing
investigations.  We'll probably never know what turned the spotlight on
Mr Nemenyi.  My guess is ordinary traffic analysis ("Hey Joe, get me the
list of the top 20 mail users by volume, and do a quick altavista search on
each of them").  The "snitch jacket" must have been an afterthought.  I think
using such a technique on a pathologically gullible guy like Mr Nemenyi falls
under the rubric of cruel and unusual punishment.  This might be another
legal avenue for Mr Nemenyi to seek redress from the Lab.

As to whether Mr Nemenyi was forced out/fired/resigned/laid off for the
officially stated reasons, or for the contents of his writings, I would
say most likely for the latter.  Any large organization has at least two
reasons for every action it might take: the officially stated reason, and
the real reason.  If I were to give the clap to my boss' daughter, then
I would have to start looking for a new job real soon.  If I were dumb
enough to stick around and wait to be fired, then I am sure the officially
stated reasons for my firing would not mention either the clap or my
boss' daughter.  This is how the world works.  Quite simple, really.

-----
Gabor Fencsik

+ - OLYMPIC BOMBINGS (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

WITH DEEP SORROW I HAVE TO REPPORT THAT A TERRORIST BOMB EXPLODED THIS
MORNING AT THE OLYMPIC VILLAGE AREA WITH SOME FATALITIES AND MANY INJURIES.
+ - Re: A growing list (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sometimes the best tasting foods are those made by simple folk...it has
little to do with being poor. Lecso is in fact one of the mainstays of
Hungarian cusine. If you go to restaurants in Hungary often you will
find that some dish is called xyz magyarosan...meaning that it has lecso
on the side of the dish. The key is fresh ingredients and you can be as
rich as you want it still tastes great! BTW even Gundel and others have
Magyarosan type dishes and in the BEST restaurants in Budapest!!!
Hope that answers your question.
Peter Soltesz

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Burian wrote:

> How about lecso?  I'm told there are different variations.  When people
> took me to restaurants in BP, they kept steering me to the "English"
> dishes.  And I kept shouting, "Bring me lecso!"  They said, "But that is a
> poor person's dish."  I said, "Then I qualify."  They could not believe
> any of this, but I got my lecso.
>
> Do only poor people eat this?  And what are the variation possibilities?
>
+ - Re: The Twilight Zone (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sat, 27 Jul 1996, Gabor Fencsik wrote:
> I am afraid I am several episodes behind in this particular soap opera,
> ever since I set up my bozo filter to send Mr Nemenyi's postings straight
> to the bit bucket.

 A piece of advice to fellow bozo filterers: NPA's 'literary works' are
in a sense too valuable for the bit bucket (or is it the other way around
;-)) - consider archiving them instead, if you can spare a few megabytes.
You never know when you'd need News from a Wild Paralel Universe: such as
the infamous exploding gerbil-in-anus story, the UNESCO-NAMBLA pedophile
conspiracy or the likes...

- --
 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

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=yOIM
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+ - Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 12:41 AM 7/27/96 -0500, Nemenyi wrote:

>Whatever has happened with collective responsibility?
>
>I hope I made my question simple?
>

Not to me. Whose responsibility? For what? Who is the addressee of this
question?

A typical example of clarity from this "researcher".

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - NPA -- the saga continues (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andras Kornai wrote:

>>That is great! So I ask Mr. Kornai: Does he mean, that HR. refused to admit
>>any knowledge about the firing of my boss?

>She wouldn't comment on it one way or the other.

It figures. :-)

>>How come, that Eva Balogh passed
>>info about it, way before it actually happened?

>I'm sure she faithfully reported what she heard from her Argonne source.

Oh I am sure about it!

>>Oh by the way, NPA.'s boss was not laid off. He was fired after 23 years of
>>clean service, just to stick to the facts!

>Because he mismanaged you, or were other reasons cited?

Because he did not stop me of something, what was not obvious, due to
well done work.


>Her answer was that for the first incident this would be true at
>Argonne as well.  Needless to say, she couldn't and wouldn't tell me whether
>there were prior incidents -- readers must draw their own conclusions.

>>Thanks for the info. The last sentence is important!

>And so is the one before it.

Did she claimed previous instances? Of course she could not!

>So don't trust me, I never asked you to. Since I don't trust you either, I
>asked for independent confirmation. You are not providing any, and what ANL
>says contradicts a major point of your story: they say your resignation was
>voluntary, you say it was forced. In the absence of evidence to the contrary
>I belive them more than I belive you, it's that simple.

Believe whoever you want to.

>>Now look. The Hungarian Radio wanted my story. So I did not manage anything.
>>They have all the needed info regarding to this case.

>Have you heard of the principle "auditur et altera pars"? Roman law already
>recognizes the fact that you can't get to the bottom of a case on the basis
>of evidence supplied by one of the parties, you must also hear what the other
>side has to say. Now that I took the trouble to hear what ANL says, it is
>evident that you were (and still are) presenting a highly biased version.

ANL. can provide it's own story to Radio Petofi. But it seems ANL. does not
even want to discuss anything with you. They are just not interested of the
any PR. of this matter.

>Had Hungarian Radio taken the trouble to check things out with ANL, they would
>have immadiately known that it is not a "va1llalat". I conclude they never
>checked with ANL, and indeed they have relied on the biased evidence supplied
>by one party, you.

Call them whichever way you like. Maybe they are just a "icipicit vallalat" :-)
due to the fact, that their APS. division worked on a profit project.
And the proofs of mine seemed satisfactory for the reporter of that Radio.

>>I have no idea, why you
>>talk about ADL.I did not mention them as players of this case.

>No, but Joe Pannon, who seems to be one of your trusted advocates, repeatedly
>did.

Fine. But why did you address this issue to me? Are you trying to attack me
by putting words into my mouth?

>What I'm suggesting is that it is possible that you had prior warnings from
>your management about spending too much company time on the net, so when (and
>if) complaints arrived they already had the case made by your behavior.

Any proofs of it or you just pulled it out of your behind?

>I have no access to this kind of evidence, and have no interest in searching
>for it.

Then why did you mentioned it?

>Since you are the party harmed by Argonne's actions, or at least you claim to
>be (nobody can blame others for harm caused by their own voluntary action) it
>is in your interest to present some objective evidence supporting your case.

Oh I will. But not to you.

>show me that you have a reasonable (not airtight, just reasonable)
case, and I will support your effort to obtain a fair hearing.

I show you nothing and I don't need your help a bit. And don't make me laugh.
You would help me? You are quite funny recently!!!

>Joe Pannon might already be convinced that you have a case, but I am not.

That is your problem.

>The fact that you are focussing your anger on the person(s) of the mythical
>complainer(s) rather than arguing the substance of the complaint(s) or the
>unfairness of the Argonne process seems to indicate that ANL was on quite
>firm ground accepting your resignation, and the union was on equally firm
>ground not going to bat for you.

You don't get it, do you? I would not even discuss this topic any further if
you and your buddies wouldn't bring it up, again and again. I can handle
my business quite well. The question is, that why some people are so interested
in this case, bringing it up before it would die off? You have a vested interes
t
in it?

>>Why the hell ADL. should run an investigations? Tell me?

I don't think they should do so.

Well, than we are on the same frequency!

>Hell, if Noam Chomsky lends his support to outright holocaust-revisionists
>this way, I can certainly support your right to blood libel.

?????

>But make no mistake, I _do_ find your views objectionable, in fact I think
>some of your postings constitute defamation exactly in the sense the ADL
>cares most about, anti-semitic defamation.

So I should get ready for some additional whistle blowing as well? :-)
Knowing you, nothing surprises me any more!

>>You only snooped around without any success. Be proud of it.

>What is this snooping bit? You encouraged people to look into the matter,
>and both E1va Balogh and I did.

You mean if I say Don't Do It, then you are not going to do it? Don't
play games with me, pleeese!

>Since our findings are not what you wanted to hear, we are now both accused
of snooping.

You are wrong. I was delighted to hear, that Eva made an ass out of herself of
spreading false info. And you? You just provided us with nothing. Thanks.

NPA.
+ - The Twilight Zone (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Fencsik wrote:

>The simplest, and most likely scenario is that Mr Nemenyi fell for the
>classic investigative ploy known as the "snitch jacket".  The idea behind
>this technique is to mask the real sources and methods of the investigation
>by planting the notion of an informer in the target's mind, causing
>disorientation, paranoia, and a fruitless search for snitches behind every
>bush and under every bed.

But I did find you "Karesz" !

>The investigators at Argonne have plenty of reasons to keep
>their sources and methods to themselves, perhaps to protect other ongoing
>investigations.

Oh boy, you are applauding too loud to ANL.s protection of the whistle blower.
Do you have some vested interest also? ;-) And what ongoing investigation
are talking about? The case is closed on their part.

>We'll probably never know what turned the spotlight on Mr Nemenyi.

We will, we will.

>I think using such a technique on a pathologically gullible guy like
>Mr Nemenyi falls under the rubric of cruel and unusual punishment.
>This might be another legal avenue for Mr Nemenyi to seek redress from
>the Lab.

Did I sensed panic on your part? :-) Listen.... when you come out with
labels, I know that you are getting nervous.

>Any large organization has at least two reasons for every action it might
>take: the officially stated reason, and the real reason.

Thank you of mentioning this. So according to you, ANL. also used two
reasons? One for me, and one for the record?

>If I were to give the clap to my boss' daughter, then I would have to start
>looking for a new job real soon.  If I were dumb enough to stick around and
>wait to be fired, then I am sure the officially stated reasons for my firing
>would not mention either the clap or my boss' daughter.  This is how the
>world works.  Quite simple, really.

You just accused of ANL. of violating some basic rights of mine. Thanks buddy.

NPA.
+ - The Twilight Zone (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq wrote:

>A piece of advice to fellow bozo filterers: NPA's 'literary works' are
>in a sense too valuable for the bit bucket (or is it the other way around
>;-)) - consider archiving them instead, if you can spare a few megabytes.
>You never know when you'd need News from a Wild Paralel Universe: such as
>the infamous exploding gerbil-in-anus story, the UNESCO-NAMBLA pedophile
>conspiracy or the likes...

The "exploding gerbil-in-anus story"  was posted by Joseph Hollosi. I guess
you guys just realized that Mr. Hollosi is a Nazi too? ;-)))))))

NPA.
+ - I call only nazis nazis (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Farkas wrote:

>>Whatever has happened with collective responsibility?
>>I hope I made my question simple?

>Not to me. Whose responsibility? For what? Who is the addressee of this
>question?
>A typical example of clarity from this "researcher".

The addressee of the question is you Mr. Farkas. And you still did not
answer to my question. I asked a question, and you are showering me
with "whose, what, who" words. Seems like, I asked something, you
don't have opinions on in this very subject. Well I accept this.;-)

NPA.
+ - Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 01:30 PM 7/27/96 -0500, Nemenyi wrote:
>Gabor Farkas wrote:
>
>>>Whatever has happened with collective responsibility?
>>>I hope I made my question simple?
>
>>Not to me. Whose responsibility? For what? Who is the addressee of this
>>question?
>>A typical example of clarity from this "researcher".
>
>The addressee of the question is you Mr. Farkas. And you still did not
>answer to my question. I asked a question, and you are showering me
>with "whose, what, who" words. Seems like, I asked something, you
>don't have opinions on in this very subject. Well I accept this.;-)
>
>NPA.
>

I have an idea. Maybe Nemenyi was fired (or "forced to resign") because his
bosses at ANL realized what becomes more and more obvious from his postings
on Hungary: he does not have the ability of writing  grammatically correct
sentences in English.

This problem of his was probably first accepted as an inherent one, maybe it
was used to improve ANL's statistics on disabled employees. But then they
discovered from those infamous translations of his Forum postings that this
guy can write, he just does not speak English.

This  probably beats dr. Gyorgy Bathori's Twilight Zone theory.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - I call only nazis nazis (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Farkas wrote:

>I have an idea. Maybe Nemenyi was fired (or "forced to resign") because his
>bosses at ANL realized what becomes more and more obvious from his postings
>on Hungary: he does not have the ability of writing  grammatically correct
>sentences in English.

Big deal! I didn't have to. :-) So now comes the SUPER GUN. English
language.

>This problem of his was probably first accepted as an inherent one, maybe it
>was used to improve ANL's statistics on disabled employees. But then they
>discovered from those infamous translations of his Forum postings that this
>guy can write, he just does not speak English.

That was your best shoot? I feel sorry for you. Shall we continue in
Hungarian? ;-)

NPA.
+ - Re: How about an agreed-upon definition of "anti-semiti (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 02:54 PM 7/25/96 -0600, Celia wrote:

>We've always had a few people in every religion at every time in human
>history who've found reason to think that blood offerings are somehow valid.

        Sure, and in the earliest history of the Jews such thing was
acceptable. Think of the story of Abraham and his son Isaac. But, by the
middle ages, and even earlier, blood as such was "inpure" in Judaism. Jews
wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. (That's why kosher cooking is so
awful: they cook everything to death.) It is hard to imagine that a bunch of
Jews would suddenly start collecting Christian blood or any blood for that
matter. At the time when Mr. Nemenyi first posted his, by now infamous,
writing, even people whom I consider to be not at all "liberal" were
horrified!! Several people whom I considered to be the right of me by a mile
wrote in, saying: do you mean that you also believe the stories about those
poor witches in Europe and in North America? Now, surely, not one of us
believe that the medieval witch hunts had any merit whatsoever! Should we
believe that Jewish blood libel cases had any merit whatsoever? Yes, I
guess, if you have an antisemitic bend. Moreover, Mr. Nemenyi's last example
was a late nineteenth-century Hungarian case!! It just shows, I'm afraid,
how far behind Hungary was in comparison to countries west of her. That
anyone at that late date would believe such story!!! And common, uneduated
folks did believe it, and some antisemitic members of parliament made
political capital out of it, to the shame of the country!! It was big news
in those days all over the world and people were horrified! And, I am sure,
in the privacy of their homes, muttered something like, "Well, you know, the
primitive east Europeans, those primitive Hungarians who came from Asia!!"
That's the kind of things they most likely said. The poor girl, the victim,
either committed suicide or she was murdered. In any case, her body was
found in the river Tisza! But the very fact that such thing was all over the
Hungarian newspapers and people gave credence to such stories, I'm afraid
doesn't reflect well on late nineteenth-century Hungary! And, on top of
everything else, we have to hear about it on the Internet in 1995, from a
man, who believes that no justice was served by acquitting the Jews of
Tiszaeszlar, who were falsely accused!!! And we are taking about this man
seriously? Do we take him seriously? Do we think that he is an innocent
victim of an intolerant society?

        Let's assume that Mr. Nemenyi is not antisemitic (which is hard to
believe, by the way). But then there is the obvious question: why is he
talking about Jewish topics all the time? Why does he find a Jewish culprit
behind every important historical event, be it 1848 or 1917. Why is he so
preoccupied with this particular topic? We know from the horse's mouth that
he has some Jewish connection, by marriage. I guess, this is the basis of
Barna Bihari's contention that Mr. Nemenyi couldn't possibly an antisemite.
But, let's face it, you can be born a Jew and be an antisemite. I have met
several of them. Just because Mr. Nemenyi was married to a Jewish woman once
upon the time and has a child who is half Jewish that doesn't mean that Mr.
Nemenyi cannot be antisemitic. Far from it.

        I am sorry that I didn't respond to the rest of Celia's longish
piece but I got stuck at the very first sentence. There was plenty to say
right there.

        Eva Balogh

P.S. I am afraid I have been away all day long and I will be away all day
long tomorrow and therefore I am unable to answer some of posts which
concern my earlier utterances, including Mr. Nemenyi's boss. I will try to
answer the posts Sunday.
+ - Re: How about (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva's last post is the baddest insinuation of the year.
Ha can not prove any of her claims or roumors about
Nemenyi, posted there. That's more than ridiculous.

Eva is probably convinced that if she repeats the
same rubbish over and over again and all the time, it
will become the "voice of God", or at least it would gain
some acceptance among the readers of this list. Where is
her firm conviction in this coming from, I have no idea.

Nevertheless, it reminds me of the techniques of the
infamous fascist media magician, Doctor Goebbels.

To bad, as it is.                              Sz. Zoli
+ - Jokes (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Test
+ - Jokes (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

test
+ - Hungarian Jokes (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Anyone know what the latest jokes are in Hungary--please let me know.  You can
write back in Hungarian or in English--please send lots!

Thanks!!!

email: 
+ - I wish to export computers to hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

any one out there can help me ?
mike

PS I DO NOT WANT TO BUY
i have 900 machines to unload at 175$ US !!!
all great toshiba NOTEBOOKS !!!


http://www.complast.com
http://www.autoroute.net/~complex
E-Mail 
E-Mail 
+ - Re: NPA -- the saga continues (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 01:07 PM 7/27/96 -0500, Nemenyi wrote as an answer to Andras Kornai:

>>I'm sure she [Eva S. Balogh] faithfully reported what she heard from her
Argonne source.
>
>Oh I am sure about it!

        Do you accuse me of lying? For your information, here is the letter
I received from my "mole."

>Kedves Eva,
>
>Utananeztem a dolgoknak, amirol kerdezett. Ugy nez ki, hogy a hir igaz.
>Valaki valoszinuleg "feljelentette" NPA-t es a vizsgalat igazolta a
>vadakat. Szamitogepen es a kulonbozo newsgroup-ok archivjaiban talalt anyagok
>kompromittaloak voltak. NP nem megvarva az elbocsajtasat, felmondott.
>Fonoket az esemenyek miatt szinten elbocsajtottak, aki a vizsgalat soran
>a kerdesekre azt mondta, hogy ugyan tudott arrol, hogy NPA kulonbozo
>newsgroup-okba irogatott, de nem tulajdonitott jelentoseget a dolognak.
>A vad "hivatalosan" antiszemita anyagok terjesztese allami tulajdonban
>levo szamitogeprol.

        The date was June 15th. The letter did contain some new information:
Mr. Nemenyi's boss was also fired. Mr. Nemenyi denied this as late as two
weeks ago. Now he says that the story is true and that "my snooping around,"
and "my mole's activites" have something to do with his firing. How can that be
?

Janos Kornai:

>>I conclude they never
>>checked with ANL, and indeed they have relied on the biased evidence supplied
>>by one party, you.

        I also conclude the same thing. It is unfortunately only too often
that Hungarian journalists don't check their sources properly. I can give
the readers of HUNGARY a long list of questionable journalistic practices
from the Hungarian media.


>Call them whichever way you like. Maybe they are just a "icipici vallalat" :-)
>due to the fact, that their APS. division worked on a profit project.
>And the proofs of mine seemed satisfactory for the reporter of that Radio.

        It is more likely that the editors of the Petofi Radio have
"icipici" brains!

>>Since you are the party harmed by Argonne's actions, or at least you claim to
>>be (nobody can blame others for harm caused by their own voluntary action) it
>>is in your interest to present some objective evidence supporting your case.
>
>Oh I will. But not to you.

        I am sick and tired of you and your accusations, Nemenyi. Your first
or second letter on this subject kept hinting very strongly that one of the
"denouncers" was no one else but Gabor Farkas. You kept repeating the word
"woolf" right and left and every possible Hungarian expression in which the
word "woolf" appeared in a negative sense. For those of you who don't know
Hungarian: farkas means woolf. In any case, you and your followers were
making very strong hints that either Gabor Farkas or Gabor Elek, or perhaps
both, were the culprits. While you are accusing people of amoral acts you
bring your case to the Internet while we are unable to, because of the
existence of the privacy act, get to the bottom of these accusations. I
think this is unfair and I think you ought to stop. Whatever happened at
your workplace, you don't have the right to accuse people publicly while the
privacy act prevents us from finding out the truth.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: The list is growing (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 03:34 PM 7/25/96 -0400, Aniko wrote:

>Hi Eva et al, involved in this debate [forradalom versus szabadsagharc].
While in Hungary, I had a little
>fun.  I posed the following question to an fairly wide range of people, in
>six different areas of Hungary. In addition, in three different areas of
>Northern Italy in the ValSessia region, I asked the same question:
>
>"Please define the '56 events to me, in one word".
>
>I have to add that most people I asked took me for a lunatic (and likely
>righfully so)  but they all amused me by giving answers.   For all of your
>information, not even *one*  person defined it as "Szabadsagharc".  The word
>"Forradalom" was used in every single instance.  It is not my intent to
>start a debate on this, nor do I wish to respond to any in depth inquiries
>on this in the future.  Simple stated, I just had some fun and wanted to
>satisfy my own curiosity if not memory on the topic.  For what it's worth, I
>thought you'd enjoy the sharing.

        Thank you, Aniko for thinking of this while in Hungary.

        Eva B.
+ - Re: A growing list (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 12:43 PM 7/25/96 -0400, Burian wrote:
>How about lecso?  I'm told there are different variations.  When people
>took me to restaurants in BP, they kept steering me to the "English"
>dishes.  And I kept shouting, "Bring me lecso!"  They said, "But that is a
>poor person's dish."  I said, "Then I qualify."  They could not believe
>any of this, but I got my lecso.
>
>Do only poor people eat this?  And what are the variation possibilities?

        Of course, not. Everybody eats lecso' especially in season--which is
August and early September, when there is so much green pepper and so much
tomato that you can dam up the Danube with them, as the Hungarian saying
goes. In 1956 August I left Pecs a bit early in order to see my boyfriend
earlier than the beginning of the semester and my roommate (who was a
Canadian-Hungarian, by the way) and I lived on lecso for two solid weeks
because there was no cafeteria yet. Green peppers and tomatoes were dirty
cheap (unfortunately they are never that inexpensive here, not even in
August and September). By the way, George Lang's lecso' recipe is very, very
good. There are many variations, some of which include sausage or eggs. I
especially like lecso with eggs.

        By the way, isn't it interesting that we all can agree on food?

        Eva B.
+ - Re: New Thread / Same Old Topic (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:06 PM 7/25/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>Public education is not free.  It is paid for by the same people who pay for
>every other aspect of government.

        Of course, it isn't. In this country property taxes paid to the town
in addition to grants from the state government take care of public
eduction. By the way, considering that I am not married and I have no
children and 75 percent of my property taxes (of close to $4,000/year) goes
to education, I think that in the last twenty years I have paid fully for my
own public education. Add to this, my yearly alumni contribution to Yale and
Carleton Universities!

>I see.  If you benefit from something it's not a social programme.  It only
>becomes that when someone else benefits form it.  Very clever.

        No, what I meant was that it was an "existing socialist" system
where, I am very sure my parents paid dearly for the few years of "free"
public education I received. They lost several apartments, they lost a
factory, and they lost quite a few acres of land. Believe me my education
wasn't exactly free.


>A lot of things in Hungary were "free" between 1948 and 1989.  And as you
>keep reminding us, it's payback time.  I don't suppose you're willing to
>give the Hungarian government a cheque to pay for the "freebies" you
>received between 1948 and 1956?

        I paid my debt fifty times over!! With the ruined lives of my
parents and my forced emigration in addition to all the stolen property from
my family. And by the way, I am one of the very few people I know on the
Internet who actually invested the meagre compensation I received in the
Hungarian stock exchange, trying to help the Hungarian economy. I didn't
sell my shares to speculators and exchanged them to American dollars.

>The federal and provincial governments in Canada are not cash cows.

        You don't have to give me lectures on this subject. I know it better
than you do that there is no free lunch.

>Once
>again, it's the taxpayer who helped subsidize your education in Canada.  But
>not just any taxpayer.  The well-to-do in Canada don't pay their full taxes
>because they know how to take advantage of tax loopholes.  Unfortunately,
>the working poor don't know how to take advantage of tax loopholes and end
>up paying their full tax.  In effect they are subsidizing the university
>education of the elite.

        Elite, my foot. A very large percentage of American and Canadian
adult population receive college education.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: A growing list (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 03:09 AM 7/26/96 GMT, Bandi Rozsa wrote:

>My mom had the ability to walk into the larder (is spa'jc a Hungarian
>word?),

        Spa'jz comes from German: Speise=food, nourishment, meal, dish.


>Some foods that would sound disgusting to an American, but which I had
>with great relish:
>---------------------------
>Fried calf-brain
>Sauteed chicken blood w/onions and potatoes
>Beef bone-marrow on toast

        Fried pig's blood is very good. Believe me. We used to have it once
a year: at pig's killing time in early January.

>Bean soup

        I still make it quite often and love it. Also excellent if you use
lentils.

>P.S. II.  Since I was already 20 when I arrived here, I had developed
>some eating habits which have stayed with me all these decades: 10) I
>always eat bread with everything with meat or  fat; and 2) I always
>eat something sour -- like kovaszos ugorka (or uborka, if you wish)
>with anything "meaty." It turns out, according to some researchers,
>that acidic foods contribute to a  more complete metabolism of fats.

        I eat salad with vinegar/lemon salad dressing really twice a day. I
simply can't imagine a meal without a salad. I remember that my father and I
used to "fight" over the salad at dinner time.

        Eva B.
+ - Re: A growing list (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:35 PM 7/25/96 -0400, Aniko wrote:

>Well, I can only add, coming from within that is, that you must have great
>taste in food at least to be shouting for Lecso.  Regarding the poor man's
>comment, I might add, that lecso is a legend in time which should never be
>associated with a lifestyle or a class of life anyways.  Lecso is just is.
>As such, Lecso, is by no means to me a poor man's food nor is it a rich
>man's food.

        I heard that the origin of lecso is the Balkans. Maybe Serbian dish
originally.

        Eva B.
+ - Re: NPA--the saga continues (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 08:34 PM 7/25/96 -0500, Nemenyi wrote, quoting me:

>>My informant at Argonne didn't keep my request to himself (and I
>>didn't ask him either, by the way) and he must have informed Mr. Nemenyi
>>about my inquiry.
>
>Wrong. Dead wrong. Eva's informant did not tell me anything. I had my own
>way to monitor Eva's activities.

        I didn't not tell the name of the informant to anyone. Not a soul.
Therefore the only source could have been my informant's friend, who gave me
his name in the first place.

>So Eva
>should not over estimate her part in this dirty case. She is dirty, but
>in another way. :-)

        Could you please elaborate?

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: How about (Nemenyi) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Jul 27,  7:09pm, Zoltan Szekely wrote:
> Subject: Re: How about
>
> Where is her firm conviction in this coming from, I have no idea.
>
>                                                  Sz. Zoli
>-- End of excerpt from Zoltan Szekely
-------------------
       Because she can  think for herself and  she bothers to
    reason. I know these concepts are foreign to you, but why
    don't you try. Groupies have, of course, trouble to think
    and reason. But if you'll really apply yourself, may work
    even for you.
                     Amos
+ - Re: The Nemenyi files (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Seems to me that if Mssrs Fekete, Stowe, and Farkas claim that something
             Mr Nemenyi said was historically inaccurate, the civil and
fair course of action would be to prove that the statement is a lie.

Their  'ad hominem' attacks make me wonder why they do not refute whatever
he may have said.

Would it not make more sense to simply prove him wrong and leave it at
that?

Just wondering.......

Do we want fairness or merely revenge? If I mention that the boss'es
daughter got  an STD, I may be right or I may be wrong. Either way, the
boss "ain't" gonna be happy. The message might make him want to kill the
messenger.

Bring on the facts. I'm getting real tired of this constant backstabbing
and willful misreprentation.

PS. The fact that both sides use poor grammar and weak communication
skills is a        tribute to the emotionality of the discussion.

I don't feel like digging up crap in any stinky
archives......claustrophobia????
+ - Re: How about (Nemenyi) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Amos uses the 'tricky way' to quote me:
>
> On Jul 27,  7:09pm, Zoltan Szekely wrote:
> > Subject: Re: How about
> >
> > Where is her firm conviction in this coming from, I have no idea.
> >
> >                                                  Sz. Zoli
> >-- End of excerpt from Zoltan Szekely
> -------------------
>        Because she can  think for herself and  she bothers to
>     reason. I know these concepts are foreign to you, but why
>     don't you try. Groupies have, of course, trouble to think
>     and reason. But if you'll really apply yourself, may work
>     even for you.
>                      Amos

Original excerpt:
-----------------
> > Eva is probably convinced that if she repeats the
> > same rubbish over and over again and all the time, it
> > will become the "voice of God", or at least it would gain
> > some acceptance among the readers of this list. Where is
> > her firm conviction in this coming from, I have no idea.
So Eva 'thinks for herself and bothers to reason', and that's
why she feels she is eligible to speak as the judgemental as
the "voice of God". Whoaaa! Sounds as kinda blasphemous
statement for me.
                                                   Sz. Zoli
+ - Re: The Nemenyi files (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sat, 27 Jul 1996, JFerengi wrote:
> Seems to me that if Mssrs Fekete, Stowe, and Farkas claim that something
>              Mr Nemenyi said was historically inaccurate, the civil and
> fair course of action would be to prove that the statement is a lie.
 I don't claim anything; I merely commented on the denunciations being
bandied about apropos of this moving, if strikingly unsupported martyrdom
story. It seems abundantly clear that it's totally unlikely that any-one,
particularly a government research lab employee would get fired due to
being historically inaccurate, so we're not talking about that here
(except when these pronouncements are being dragged in how it's all his
audience's fault to hear wrong). While I think that "historically
inaccurate" is a monumental understatement, I could care less.

> Their  'ad hominem' attacks make me wonder why they do not refute whatever
> he may have said.
 Please point out any 'ad hominem' as opposed to on-subject comments
made, particularly by myself (it my have slipped by me if the others
collectively addressed by you said something you don't like, in any event
I don't speak for them).
 Perhaps when you actually read what NPA has been saying you can take me
to task what I should refute or not; in the meantime you'd have to excuse
if I don't feel my long-time Forum experience overruled by your
impressions (and rather inaccurate ones at that) gathered in the last few
weeks somewhere.

> Would it not make more sense to simply prove him wrong and leave it at
> that?
 What little of it could rationally be discussed had been; if you require
proof for things like the lack of omnipresent freemason-Communist
conspiracy, that's not my problem.

> Do we want fairness or merely revenge? If I mention that the boss'es
> daughter got  an STD, I may be right or I may be wrong. Either way, the
> boss "ain't" gonna be happy. The message might make him want to kill the
> messenger.
 However, the only issue here is: if you decide to broadcast this tidbit
of rumor via your company's computer, could you be right in blaming
others for the trouble you'd be getting into?

>[...]
> I don't feel like digging up crap in any stinky
> archives......claustrophobia????
 Ah, why bother yourself with actually seeing what he said, when you can
form such firm an opinion without that ;-<...

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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+ - Re: Hemp (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>   Joe Szalai > writes:
>  At 04:26 PM 7/22/96 +0200, Laszlo Meszaros wrote:
>
>  >It seems that America did not learn from the twenties (years of
prohibition).
>  >Politicians do not allow facts to disturb their minds.
>
>  Prohibition was better than no booze at all!  Same for the illegality of
>  'soft' drugs.
>
>  Joe Szalai
>
>>>>
You are right.

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