Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 813
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-10-11
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Origins of Hungarians (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
2 **FREE SEX PICS** (mind)  55 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Amazing Hungarians in the US (Was: Re: Amazing Amer (mind)  161 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Erdo"s (mind)  91 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Jelikonak (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Suicide in Hungary - (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
7 Aniko the uncharitable (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: The Bible - (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Origins of Hungarians (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
10 Cut Taxes to raise Revenue (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Erdo"s (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Jelikonak (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Aniko the uncharitable (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: English in Hungary (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: The Genesis (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: To Peter Soltesz (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: The Genesis (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind)  42 sor     (cikkei)
20 Genesis at el (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: The 1700s (mind)  139 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: English in Hungary (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: The 1700s (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind)  58 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: The 1700s (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: Unaffordability of Hungary and an unrelated questio (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
28 Re: Unaffordability of Hungary and an unrelated questio (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
29 Re: Amazing America (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
30 Re: Amazing America (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
31 Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
32 How to get from Budapest to Timisoara (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
33 Re: How to get from Budapest to Timisoara (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
34 Re: Amazing America (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
35 Re: Cut Taxes to raise Revenue (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
36 Re: The Bible - (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
37 Re: English in Hungary (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
38 The Visa-Free List (2nd Passports) (mind)  97 sor     (cikkei)
39 Re: development of our language (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
40 Re: How to get from Budapest to Timisoara (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
41 Re: English in Hungary (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
42 Re: English in Hungary (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
43 Re: Amazing America (mind)  43 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Origins of Hungarians (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Besides speaking the language clearly you have nothing to do with the Hungarian
nation. Sorry
Peter but your interest and agenda are somewhere else. Peter your below
reproduced statement is
IDIOTIC in the context that you claim being Hungarian, just forget the whole
charade.


Albert Albu
-------



Peter A. Soltesz wrote:
>
> I was impressed with Eva Balogh/s Historical knowledge. Perhaps she and
> others may be able to shed more light on the Origins of the Hungarians.
>
> I do understand that there are relatively recent explorations/discoveries
> of the Hungarian origins.  This includes comments that Koreans are
> somehow related, as w ell as, a more recent findings that somewhere in the
> Tibetian section they found some residents that have very much linguistic
> roots very similar to Hungarians.
>
> Any comments or new knowledge on this topic would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
>
> Peter Soltesz
+ - **FREE SEX PICS** (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I HAD TO GET YOUR ATTENTION SOME HOW! PLEASE READ ON ANYWAY. YOU WON'T
BE SORRY YOU DID!!!!!!


O.K. listen. I know what your thinking. These things don't work BUT
please don't fool yourself into thinking that. With just five dollars
$5.00 and the cost of five postage stamps YOU CAN make thousands of
dollars. I have personaly already made 2,432.00. in just 15 days. I'm
not joking. When I first read this same type of letter I laughed and
went on about my business. Then I got to thinking, it's only five
dollars. How can I lose. Boy i'm glad I did!!!! !!PLEASE!! follow these
simple instructions and expect your money soon. Also don't think about
not sending your money to the listed people. Honesty is the key to this
working. Just think about other people who might not send you YOUR
money. WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE!!!!

Step (1): Write your name and address on five separate pieces of paper
with the words "Please add me to your mailing list". Fold a one dollar
bill in each of the pieces of paper, place them in five different
envelopes and mail one to each of the following addressess:

            1) Robert Knowlton
                PO Box 924
                Concord, NH. 03302-0924

             2) JCL
                 1313 Wake Forrest Dr. #125
                 Davis, CA. 95615

             3) RFP
                 9594 1st. Ave. NE. #423
                 Seattle, WA. 98115

             4) JJC
                 1770 Glenmore Ave.
                 East Meadow, NY. 11554

             5) AMS
                 U.T. Box 16004
                 Knoxville, Tn. 37996

Step(2): Now remove the first name on the list and move everybody else
up one. Put your name and address at the bottom. Now your number five
and JCL is number one. You can do this by retyping this same post or
just editing in you fav. word program.

Step(3): Now post your article to ,at the very least, 200 user news
groups. There is thousands of them to choose from. Don't forget one
thing: The more groups you post it to the more money your going to make.
If you posted to all of them you could make a fortune!!!

THATS IT!!      Now sit back and make your money. I could bore you with how
it works but I believe that your smart enough to figure that out on your
own. Please don't let this opportunity pass you by. WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO
LOSE?????
+ - Re: Amazing Hungarians in the US (Was: Re: Amazing Amer (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
"Peter A. Soltesz" > writes:

> Here is is SAM!
>
>CUT TAXES TO RAISE GOVERNMENT REVENUES
>
>    excerpted from the National Center for Policy Analysis' Daily Policy
>                                   Digest
>
>    Study after study arrives to reinforce the evidence that lower tax
rates
>    mean greater economic growth, leading to increased government
>revenues.

What studies? Who did 'em? Where were they published?

> But
>    those who apparently enjoy the status quo and want it to continue
keep
>    deriding the concept as "supply-side alchemy" and charge that a flat
tax
>    will give the wealthy a free ride.

Who are these people who "enjoy the status quo?" What is the status quo?


> Not true, say many analysts who have
>studied the question.

Who are these analysts? Where are their analyses published?

 They note:
>
>    Tax rate reductions in the 1920s, 1960s and 1980s resulted in
>increases in
>    government revenue, while taxes paid by the wealthy rose.
>
>    Tax rate increases in the 1930s prolonged the Great Depression, and
>    inflation-induced bracket creep in the 1970s and early 1980s hindered
>    economic growth in the 1973-82 period.
>
>    Looking at the 1920s:
>
>     * In the first half of that decade, the top tax rate was slashed
>       from 73 percent to 25 percent.
>     * Tax revenues surged from $719 million in 1921 to $1.16 billion by
>       1928.
>     * The share of the tax burden paid by the rich -- $50,000 and up in
>       those days -- rose to 78 percent in 1928 from 44 percent in 1921.

Whose figures are these? Are they valid? Are you mixing terms here --
i.e., does the "rich" referred to in your third bulleted graph correspond
exactly with those in the top tax bracket mentioned in the first bulleted
graph? What other structural changes in the economy or the income tax
system (or are we talking about more than just income taxes? Are we
talking about all federal tax revenues?) might explain this "surge" in
revenues?

>
>    Now consider what happened in the 1960s.
>The top tax rate was reduced from 91 percent in 1963 to 70 percent by
>    1965.
>
>      Tax revenues climbed more than 16 percent between 1963 and 1966.
>
>      Tax collections from those making more than $50,000 a year climbed
57
>    percent during that period, but grew just 11 percent for those making
>less.
>
>      Those in the upper income brackets saw their portion of the income
tax
>    burden increase to 15 percent from 12 percent.

Stick to a consistent style to make it easier on your readers -- bullet
out each factoid likek you did when talking about the 1930s. Once again,
are you talking about the same group when you talk about collections from
those making more than $50,000 a year, those in the upper-income brackets
and those in the highest bracket? A three percent shift in the income tax
burden may be great when it is placed only on the top one or two percent
of those paying income taxes. It's not quite as great when it's spread out
over the top 40 or 50 percent. It seems like your source is trying to
deftly confuse me by comparing apples with oranges. That ain't too hard to
do with me and I know it. That's why I like my comparative statistics
truly comparable. These aren't. And the same analytical question enters my
mind -- what other structural changes in the economy or the tax system
would contribute to these trends, assuming they are valid?

>
>   Then there were the 1980s:
>
>     * Between 1980 and 1988, the top tax rate was reduced from 70
>       percent to 28 percent.
>     * Revenue surged from 1983 to 1989, increasing by more than 54
>       percent (or an inflation-adjusted 28 percent).
>     * The top 1 percent of earners saw their share of the income tax
>       bill rise from 18 percent in 1981 to 28 percent by 1988.

I have pretty much the same questions here. Are these valid numbers? Also,
what else explains this increase? I seem to remember that the federal
deficit also "surged" during that same time frame. Sure this wasn't
Keynesian economics run amiltonfriedmanmok? And are we dealing with the
same group of people when we talk about the top one percent of earners and
those in the top tax rate?

>During the current decade:
>
>     * Taxes were increased in 1990 and 1993.
>     * The result was that taxes paid by those earning above $200,000
>       fell 6.1 percent in 1991, while taxes paid by those with lower
>       earnings rose 1 percent.
>     * Between 1992 and 1993, taxable income among those with earnings of
>       less than $200,000 climbed 3.3 percent, while it declined 2.3
>       percent for those making more.

Same questions as I mentioned above. Also, how valid statistically, in
terms of establishing trends, is it to use only two years of data as your
source has done in the third bulleted graph? Or one year, as in the
second? These questions might be more adequately addressed by someone who
is actually an expert in economics. We do have at least one or two on the
group. Maybe they can offer some commentary.
>
>   Proponents of cutting tax rates are convinced these findings will
>   silence those who sing the Sirens' song of class warfare.

Editorializing, as is the intro. I trust this was printed on an op-ed page
and not fobbed off on less sophisticated readers as objective news or news
analysis (bastard son of a thousand journalistic maniacs as it may be).
>
>   Source: Daniel J. Mitchell (Heritage Foundation), "Supply-Side
>   'Alchemy' at Work," Wall Street Journal, January 17, 1996.


Oooooh, the Heritage Foundation! That place, like many think tanks, ought
to have "Warning: Professional Ethics Slide Zone" signs posted all around
its perimeter. And being printed in the WSJ, particularly on the editorial
page, is no hearty recommendation for the veracity of its contents.
>
>
>I certainly hope that this is sufficient proof for you too Sam!
>Peter Soltesz
>
>
Not really. I get this stuff in my mail at the office all the time. And if
a beginning reporter brought a melange of statistics taken out of context
to me and tried to convince me to publish it as a balanced, factual piece,
I'd have to decline until the questions I have outlined above were
answered to my satisfaction. Remember, Mr. Soltesz -- the devil can cite
scripture to his own purpose (I thought you might like that one). Thanks
for taking the time to post it. Maybe a real, living, breathing economist
will offer us all some enlightenment on this one. I take it that, since
you won't provide us with actual details of your own educational and
professional qualifications, you're not a professional economist nor do
you play one on television.
Sam Stowe


"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, of course, it's too dark to read."
-- Groucho Marx
+ - Re: Erdo"s (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Further to Robert Hetzron's short description of the Erdos number
here is a more detailed description from the Mathematics FAQ

Barna Bozoki

                                ERDOS NUMBER

   Form an undirected graph where the vertices are academics, and an edge
   connects academic X to academic Y if X has written a paper with Y. The
   Erdos number of X is the length of the shortest path in this graph
   connecting X with Erdos.

   Erdos has Erdos number 0. Co-authors of Erdos have Erdos number 1.
   Einstein has Erdos number 2, since he wrote a paper with Ernst Straus,
   and Straus wrote many papers with Erdos.

   The Extended Erdos Number applies to co-authors of Erdos. For People
   who have authored more than one paper with Erdos, their Erdos number
   is defined to be 1/# papers-co-authored.

   Why people care about it?

   Nobody seems to have a reasonable answer...

   Who is Paul Erdos?

   Paul Erdos is an Hungarian mathematician. He obtained his PhD from the
   University of Manchester and has spent most of his efforts tackling
   "small" problems and conjectures related to graph theory,
   combinatorics, geometry and number theory.

   He is one of the most prolific publishers of papers; and is also and
   indefatigable traveller.

   At this time the number of people with Erdos number 2 or less is
   estimated to be over 4750, according to Professor Jerrold W. Grossman
   archives. These archives can be consulted via anonymous ftp at
   vela.acs.oakland.edu under the directory pub/math/erdos. At this time
   it contains a list of all co-authors of Erdos and their co-authors.

   On this topic, he writes

     Let E_1 be the subgraph of the collaboration graph induced by people
     with Erdos number 1. We found that E_1 has 451 vertices and 1145
     edges. Furthermore, these collaborators tended to collaborate a lot,
     especially among themselves. They have an average of 19 other
     collaborators (standard deviation 21), and only seven of them
     collaborated with no one except Erdos. Four of them have over 100
     co-authors. If we restrict our attention just to E_1, we still find
     a lot of joint work. Only 41 of these 451 people have collaborated
     with no other persons with Erdos number 1 (i.e., there are 41
     isolated vertices in E_1), and E_1 has four components with two
     vertices each. The remaining 402 vertices in E_1 induce a connected
     subgraph. The average vertex degree in E_1 is 5, with a standard
     deviation of 6; and there are four vertices with degrees of 30 or
     higher. The largest clique in E_1 has seven vertices, but it should
     be noted that six of these people and Erdos have a joint
     seven-author paper. In addition, there are seven maximal 6-cliques,
     and 61 maximal 5-cliques. In all, 29 vertices in E_1 are involved in
     cliques of order 5 or larger. Finally, we computed that the diameter
     of E_1 is 11 and its radius is 6.

     Three quarters of the people with Erdos number 2 have only one
     co-author with Erdos number 1 (i.e., each such person has a unique
     path of length 2 to p). However, their mean number of Erdos number 1
     co-authors is 1.5, with a standard deviation of 1.1, and the count
     ranges as high as 13.

     Folklore has it that most active researchers have a finite, and
     fairly small, Erdos number. For supporting evidence, we verified
     that all the Fields and Nevanlinna prize winners during the past
     three cycles (1986-1994) are indeed in the Erdos component, with
     Erdos number at most 9. Since this group includes people working in
     theoretical physics, one can conjecture that most physicists are
     also in the Erdos component, as are, therefore, most scientists in
     general. The large number of applications of graph theory to the
     social sciences might also lead one to suspect that many researchers
     in other academic areas are included as well. We close with two open
     questions about C, restricted to mathematicians, that such musings
     suggest, with no hope that either will ever be answered
     satisfactorily: What is the diameter of the Erdos component, and
     what is the order of the second largest component?

   References

   Caspar Goffman. And what is your Erdos number? American Mathematical
   Monthly, v. 76 (1969), p. 791.

   Tom Odda (alias for Ronald Graham) On Properties of a Well- Known
   Graph, or, What is Your Ramsey Number? Topics in Graph Theory (New
   York, 1977), pp. [166-172].
+ - Re: Jelikonak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Albert:

At 09:34 PM 09/10/96 -0500, you wrote:

>
>Back bone is what had and is what you are missing.
>On the long run the first quality what of a group is what is called
>loyalty what seems far from you. (i.e. it took 300 years to broke with
>Austria)
>

Would you kindly translate the above, into a form of
English/Hungarian/Italian, which I could easier comprehend?  The above,
might well be Japaneese.  Unfortunately slated ... for 2000+ providing I
live that long that is.
>
Thanks,
Aniko
+ - Re: Suicide in Hungary - (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 9 Oct 1996 13:11:43 -0400,  (Burian) wrote:

[....]
>Regarding those suicides caused by depression (aren't most?), and assuming
>the depression is psychological rather than a chemical imbalance--

Would it surprise you to learn that biochemical changes in the brain
are inseparable from psychological events. If I really wanted to find
out whether someone is (endogenosuly) depressed, I could try a
dexamethasone suppresion test to see whether the concentration of
cortisol (a stress hormone) is at or above normal.

In other words, there are no psychological events without attendant
changes in biochemistry, and vice-versa.

>Hungarians have, thanks to history, little experience in realistic (by
>this I mean healthy) views of life, and I doubt they have much faith in
>their own powers.  Who can blame them, especially today?

Maybe learning to transcend depression is a skill that can be learned.
I sure hope so, otherwise I wasted the last 20 years of my life.

Bandi


> =============================================================
      Andrew J. Rszsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA
                 <mailto:>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
          Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
> =============================================================
+ - Aniko the uncharitable (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Aniko Dunford said:
 how about we ask Dr. Elders, to
consider donating his time instead, say for a charitable cause?
                 ^^^^^

This SHOWS how little you know Aniko! He is a SHE. You are apparently
running your mouth wihtout the brain being engaged!
Peter
+ - Re: The Bible - (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Agens said (snip)
Sorry, Peter, but the English version of the book is not the literal
translation of the title.
<<<<< Here is a perfect example of why many bibles are wrong and why we
need to be careful. Even in a simple translation from German to English
the name and meaning has totally changed!
Peter
+ - Re: Origins of Hungarians (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Wed, 9 Oct 1996  wrote:

> Besides speaking the language clearly you have nothing to do with the
 Hungarian
> nation. Sorry
<<<<<<< Say what? Albert I do not know who or what you are, I have seen
you with causes and comments orders of magnitude worse than my ever were.

Besides ANY Hungarian that does not wish to know their origins both
linguistically and physically is NOT a HUngarian in my book!
Peter
+ - Cut Taxes to raise Revenue (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sam:
The information I took was in the Wall Street Journal quoted directly and
was not on the editorial page. If you have contradictory statistics then
please show them, else accept them as they are. The source for the
numbers is irrefutable and clearly shows that cutting taxes across the
board does work.

In fact Kennedy (a democrat even) did it and it also worked for him!

Peter
+ - Re: Erdo"s (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Barnabas Bozoki wrote:

> Further to Robert Hetzron's short description of the Erdos number
> here is a more detailed description from the Mathematics FAQ
>
> Barna Bozoki

Thank you to both Barna & Robert for the information. I guess one may say
that ERDOS was the Einstein of the mathematical world.

Peter
+ - Re: Jelikonak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:34 PM 10/9/96 -0500, Albert Albu wrote:

>Back bone is what had and is what you are missing.
>On the long run the first quality what of a group is what is called
>loyalty what seems far from you. (i.e. it took 300 years to broke with
>Austria)

        At first glance this is pretty much just gibberish, but after closer
study, I can translate it as follows: "The Hungarians of Horthy's time had
backbone. I personally miss this backbone. The Hungarians are loyal by
nature, and they remained loyal to the Germans, unlike our neighbors who
have neither backbone or loyalty. I personally lack loyalty altogether. The
Hungarians were so loyal that it took them three hundred years to break with
Austria."

        Well, I could call Hungarian behavior in the late 1930s and early
1940s something else: stupidity and cowardliness. And they paid for it
dearly. As for the three hundred years which it took to break with Austria,
may I remind Albert Albu that it wasn't for the lack of trying: Bocskai,
Thokoly, Rakoczi, Kossuth. Shall we continue?

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Aniko the uncharitable (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 08:31 AM 10/10/96 -0400, Peter Soltesz wrote:

>Aniko Dunford said:
> how about we ask Dr. Elders, to
>consider donating his time instead, say for a charitable cause?
>                 ^^^^^
>
>This SHOWS how little you know Aniko! He is a SHE. You are apparently
>running your mouth wihtout the brain being engaged!

This is an area you know lots about, eh Peter?

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: English in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:01 PM 10/9/96 GMT, Eva Kende wrote:
>Language changes constantly with new concepts.
>I have to share a new Hungarian expression I learned this summer.
>@ = kukac

        Yes. And kukac means "worm," because "at = @" looks like a worm.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Mark Humphreys wrote:

<SNIP>
> I find the bible sad when it mentions that you commit a sin even by
> thinking about doing a sin!  Options in life always involve making choices
> to do or not to do something. I personally have *respect* for someone who
> sees the bad and chooses to be strong enough and do good.

<<<<<<<< Well I suppose if one thinks about that, God is perfect -
wherein sin NEVER enters the mind. Would it not be great if we could all
be like that?
Peter
+ - Re: The Genesis (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Peter: It is not clear to me what you mean by "As it was going on". The
only thing I know about is that several modern translations reject the
traditional "In the beginning God created..." in favor of "In the
beginning of God's creating...". The essence is the same, the syntax
is different -- worse than the older one. The philological reasons for the
change are specious.            Greetings to all,               Robert
+ - Re: To Peter Soltesz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I believe I said that the interpretation as "decrees" in the Ten
"Commandments" is a later development and the first one is not even a
decree, but a declaration. And the Hebrew word DIVRA (modern prounciation)
does not mean order.            Robert
+ - Re: The Genesis (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Robert:
I agree that the apparently more correct translation is more of a fluid
contiuum of creation. I guess that would undue the creation with the big
bang theory. It might also explain why the bible refers to a history of
man as 6K years while some of the evidence tends to show physical
evidence of much longer time frames. Perhaps the two (mans placement on
earth) and other things did not occur simulatenoesly, but rather over a
much longer set of eons.. mOreover, the bible also states that God - in
all of its forms - pre-existed -- exists now -- and will continue to
exist forever. Thus who are we to say when the "world as we know it" was
actually created? Thanx, Peter
+ - Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

For response, please scroll down:


> On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Mark Humphreys wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> > I find the bible sad when it mentions that you commit a sin even by
> > thinking about doing a sin!  Options in life always involve making choices
> > to do or not to do something. I personally have *respect* for someone who
> > sees the bad and chooses to be strong enough and do good.
>
Peter S. replied:

 <<<<<<<< Well I suppose if one thinks about that, God is perfect -
> wherein sin NEVER enters the mind. Would it not be great if we could all
> be like that?

Mark's latest response:

Yes, it would be good if we could all be like that, but that is why we are
human.  I think evil has also entered this god's mind.  He has caused destruc-
tive floods and sickness when I'm sure more peaceful options were available.
This god supposedly admitted that the Flood was bad and promised not to use
floods again as punishment. (That's how we have the myth explaining why we have
 rainbows.)

I do not think a god of good would be so ignorant as to be unaware of bad
things or of evil.  What would make this god great would be Its ability to
always be the essence of good. (It supposedly created *Hell*, too, u'gy?)

So, just as Yin/Yang exist together, I think negative options and thoughts
are available as to better define the positive ones.

I don't feel the absence of badness is necessarily good. Some real cruddy times
in my life have made me appreciate the good ones.  Not stealing or using some-
one when I had the known chance to do so has even made me proud of myself.
(The above is probably a little off the point.)

If someone does not have bad thoughts enter their mind, either they are 'holy'
or just not very experienced in life and need to grow up a bit.

- Mark
+ - Genesis at el (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Robert Hetzron wrote:

> I believe I said that the interpretation as "decrees" in the Ten
> "Commandments" is a later development and the first one is not even a
> decree, but a declaration. And the Hebrew word DIVRA (modern prounciation)
> does not mean
order.            Robert >
<<<<<<<<
You may be correct there Robert, but we may not know the real meaning of
the word DIVRA as it was at issue date. Let me cite a perfect example in
English.
What is the first thing that comes to your mind if I saw that is AWFUL???
Probably yech, horrible, etc. (right?)

Yet only a few hundred years ago it meant exactly the opposite!
It literally means AWEFUL - as in full of AWE! or magnificent!
(This is where lots of problems originate)
Thanks for the response. Peter
+ - Re: The 1700s (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sorry for not repeating the reply from Eva Balogh to my latest posting, but
will try to cover several of the basic issues.

While these days it is common to mistake the centuries and the actual years
(all one has to do is listen to the political yoyos about 2000 being the XXI
century) but the original discussion and the continued title is the 1700s
which is not the same as the
XVII century but the XVIII. However languagewise I will be happy to discuss the
XVII century also. The first understanding is that most of those who wrote
in Hungarian
also were familiar with Latin. Naturally, there are Latin words included in
these early Hungarian tomes. In any lectures I had to give in Hungary, I
requested if I may speak in English because most of the nuclear terms were
not even in existence when I went to school and I do not know them in
Hungarian. In spite of that I was told that just go ahead speak in Hungarian
because the terms are the same in English as in Hungarian.
Does this means that the Hungarians can't express themselves? No certainly
it doeas not even if they use English terms.

Now, I have to apologize to the non-Hungarian readers, because to debunk the
idea that Hungarian was a primitive language in the XVII/XVIII century, I
will be quoting excerpts from the then written Hungarian. Let those who read
Hungarian judge who is right about the primitiveness of the language.

Bocskay Istvan vegrendelete (1606):

" Ha pedig az Isten azt adna, hogy a korona Magyarorszagban magyar kezhez
kelne egy koronas kiraly ala, a regi mod szerent es egyenlo ertelembol, azon
korona ala, ugy az erdelyieket is intjuk: nemhogy attol elszakadnanak, vagy
abban ellent tartananak, de sot segeljek tehetsegek szerent es egyenlo
ertelembol, azon korona ala a regi mod szerent adjak magokat."

Draskovich Janos (1610)

"Mihelyt azert Pragabol hazajohetek, ottan minden szorgalmassaggal azon
igyekozem,
hogy ez kis konyvecsket, amelynek olvasasat kedvelem, te kedvedert magyar
nyelven kinyomtatnam, es teneked ajandekoznam. Mert tudom vala bizonnyal,
hogy te sokkal inkabb szoktal gyonyorkodni effele jeles konyvek olvasasaban,
hogysem mint valami hivolkodasokban."

Szepsi Korotz Gyorgy (1612)

"mely nagyarorszagnak boldog emlekezetu kiralya oly igen gerjedezett a szep
deaki tudomanyoknak orszagunkban valo plantalgatasan, megemlekezve amaz
gorogoktol rean terjedt igaz mondas felol: kik ekes tudomanyokat es a szep
mestersegeket, minden joknak
kifolyo kufejenek mondottak lenni: hogy a tudos szeptudomanyoknak tanitoit,
megszunnen valo orszagokbol is ezen magyarorszagba hivatvan, sok
jotetemenyivel ekesgette, hogy ezek altal a nemes magyar nemzet is, azon
szeptudomanyokban epuletet veven...."

Pragai Andras (1628)

"Folotte igen kerlek fiam, hogy meglassad, hogy ifjusagnak vasottsaga es a
birodalomnak
szabadsaga felre ne ragadjon, es valamikeppen cegeres bunben ne essel. Mert
nem azt kell hivni szabadosnak aki szabadsagban szulettetik, hanem aki
szabadsagban hal meg."
( A special award to the one who knows where it was translated from!)

Bethlen Gabor  (1629)

"Elso ok, mert vannak koztetek olyak, kik sokat olvastanak a gorog es romai
birodalmaknak veszedelmekrol, hogy ide a sinai es perzsiai birodalmat ne
hozzam. Masik ok, mert a magunk nemzetinek veszedelme nem homalyosabb azoknal."

I Rakoczi Gyorgy (1637)

"Tunyasagnak, restsegnek magadat ne adjad, amit tanultal azt el ne felejtsed
sot inkabb naponkent tobbet igyekezzel tanulni, jo konyveket olvass,
kivaltkepen a szent bibliat..
Egyeb kulso historiakat is, ugy vagyon szep dolog olvasni kik, csak az elmet
szoktak gyonyorkodtetni el is mulnak"

Laskai Janos (1641)

" A szidalmakat semminek tartsad! Nagy elme kivantatik a meltosaghoz, es aki
effeleket semminek tartson. Kinek tulajdonsaga ez, hogy csendes es
engedelmes legyen, es bosszusagokat s ellene esett dolgokat csak megutalja.
Kozonsegesen pedig igaz: ha szidalmakert haragszol, magadra latattol venni,
ha semminek tartod, csak abban mulnak."


Anonymus (not Bela's) Siralmas konyorgo level  (1656)

(this is the one I get reminded of when some folks start going overboard
with unkind adjectives toward each other on the net)

" Az elmult pozsonyi orszaggyuleseben amaz alnok pasquillusfarago, koholo
(ki tudja minemo kivansaggal es ektelen hamis szikraval, mivel semmi oka sem
vala rea, de inkabb lobogo nagy langolo tuzzel azaz irigyseggel,
gyulolseggel gerjedt vala fel? a magyar nev alatt mardoso lappangolo bagoly
es farkas. ha pedig magyar nemzetenek karos es hamis tancsloja, aruloja. De
inkabb nem magyar, hanem noha Magyarorszagban de idegen fajtol fajzott. Sot
laghamarabb fekete palast alatt levo fonnyadt es hervadt irigyseg es iregy
fonnyadtsag, a feje es gyujtogatoja, a kereszteny nemzetnek gyuloloje,
uldozoje: kivansaggal gonosz gerjedessel felfegyverkezett, fuvalkodott,
elronto ellensege a nemzetnek, ki az egesz keresztenysegnek oltalmazassal es
minden szolgalattal segitsegere es nagy hasznara vagyon). "


Well this covers only half a century (XVII to be right), I have several
dozen more texts and if anyone is interested I am willing to share. But not
on the group. It would be too trying to those who do not understand
Hungarian. Now, one could complain that these were the elite writers, for
those of the common folks language I recommend tomes of the "Erdelyi
Ertelmezo Szotar" which has the examples of even the juicy language usage
mainly from court cases of the days. There is also a nice volume of writings in
"Magyar Gondolkozok 17. szazad"  Szepirodalmi Konyvkiado Budapest 1979,
Tarnocz Marton compiler.

I will answer the "charges" piecemeal. However, let me assure Eva that my
ideas are not based on my Hungarian highschool education, (BTW which was a
technikum). And while anyone can express any opinion freely, that does not
necessarily make them into facts.
Based on what I have read from those days, I have zero problem understanding
whether it is social, political or historical description, it is possible
that some may have problems, and to those I apologize.

As far as "tourists" are concerned in those days, they may have existed only
in Tours.
There were many travelers, diplomats, their retinue and sometimes family and
a very large number of mercenaries with officers in the armies traversing
Hungary and a good number of French assisting Rakoczi. Unfortunately, during
some of these periods Hungary was were the "action is" and equally
unfortunately there were far to many foreign troops and officers assigned to
the imperial armies, (a large percentage of the major fortresses given up to
the Turks were commanded by foreigners under Habsburgh rule). And yes Apacai
Csere did print the Magyar Encyclopedia in Utrecht which again points only
to the reformed churches extensive international connection which certainly
was not encouraged under the Habsburgh rule. BTW what is the time difference
between the Magyar Encyclopedia and the French? Overall, the extant texts
speak for themselves.

Regards,Jeliko.
Regards,Jeliko
PO Box 29151
Columbus OH 43229
+ - Re: English in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>At 07:01 PM 10/9/96 GMT, Eva Kende wrote:
>>Language changes constantly with new concepts.
>>I have to share a new Hungarian expression I learned this summer.
>>@ = kukac
>
>        Yes. And kukac means "worm," because "at = @" looks like a worm.
>
>        Eva Balogh

And this sounds like some of the laguage reform of the early XIX century.
:-)

Regards,Jeliko
Regards,Jeliko
PO Box 29151
Columbus OH 43229
+ - Re: The 1700s (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I  think that Jeliko
 is right when Jeliko said:
not even in existence when I went to school and I do not know them in
Hungarian. In spite of that I was told that just go ahead speak in Hungarian
because the terms are the same in English as in Hungarian.
Does this means that the Hungarians can't express themselves? No certainly
it doeas not even if they use English terms.
<<<<<<
Moreover, I suppose that it is the privilidge of the inventors to create
the word for their inventions and discoveries (mostly English speaking
countries). I have noticed that Hungarians are attempting at least to
come up with, albeit mangled, translations or equivalences for the
original. This takes time. For example, lift is now also called felvono,
or eszkelator is now called mozgolepcso:, floppy disk is called a lemez,
and a display is called kepernyo", etc.

I did enjoy reading the 17&18 century docs you posted.
Peter
+ - Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Mark Humphreys wrote:
> > <SNIP>
> > > I find the bible sad when it mentions that you commit a sin even by
> > > thinking about doing a sin!  Options in life always involve making choice
s
> > > to do or not to do something. I personally have *respect* for someone who
> > > sees the bad and chooses to be strong enough and do good.
> >
> Peter S. replied:
>
>  <<<<<<<< Well I suppose if one thinks about that, God is perfect -
> > wherein sin NEVER enters the mind. Would it not be great if we could all
> > be like that?
>
> Mark's latest response:
>
> Yes, it would be good if we could all be like that, but that is why we are
> human.  I think evil has also entered this god's mind.  He has caused destruc
-
> tive floods and sickness when I'm sure more peaceful options were available.
> This god supposedly admitted that the Flood was bad and promised not to use
> floods again as punishment. (That's how we have the myth explaining why we
 have
>  rainbows.)
<><><><><><>>I think that there is perception problem here. Evil has
entered into man/s mind. There is a basic war between good and evil now
that man has to understand.

> I do not think a god of good would be so ignorant as to be unaware of bad
> things or of evil.  What would make this god great would be Its ability to
> always be the essence of good. (It supposedly created *Hell*, too, u'gy?)

<><<><><><><><><><>>I am absolutely certain that He knows what good and
evil is. I must assume that you have heard of free will. I think that God
is trying to show us (humans) the way to go. -- if you chose evil here
are the consequences. The dfinition of hell - in spite of millenia of
dogma is very simple --- it is the absence of God.

> So, just as Yin/Yang exist together, I think negative options and thoughts
> are available as to better define the positive ones.
>
> I don't feel the absence of badness is necessarily good. Some real cruddy
 times
> in my life have made me appreciate the good ones.  Not stealing or using some
-
> one when I had the known chance to do so has even made me proud of myself.
> (The above is probably a little off the point.)
<><><><><>< I am happy for oyu that you did recognize the difference and
felt good about it. If we all did something good then we may all feel
better! It seems that I would prefer a life without any evil - thank you
- perhaps you too would.
>
> If someone does not have bad thoughts enter their mind, either they are 'holy
'
> or just not very experienced in life and need to grow up a bit.
 <<<<> Yes and that is the purpose of being here...to learn to overcome
evil.
Peter
+ - Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Mark Humphreys wrote:
>
><SNIP>
>> I find the bible sad when it mentions that you commit a sin even by
>> thinking about doing a sin!  Options in life always involve making choices
>> to do or not to do something. I personally have *respect* for someone who
>> sees the bad and chooses to be strong enough and do good.
>
><<<<<<<< Well I suppose if one thinks about that, God is perfect -
>wherein sin NEVER enters the mind. Would it not be great if we could all
>be like that?
>Peter
>are you insinuateing Peter that you are that pe4rfect person?I hope not.
I could contradict you pretty fast.This is not a threat,and by the way I am
still waitingfor yourpromissed shocker.
Kepp smiling:Andy.
>
+ - Re: The 1700s (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>I  think that Jeliko
> is right when Jeliko said:
>not even in existence when I went to school and I do not know them in
>Hungarian. In spite of that I was told that just go ahead speak in Hungarian
>because the terms are the same in English as in Hungarian.
>Does this means that the Hungarians can't express themselves? No certainly
>it doeas not even if they use English terms.
><<<<<<
>Moreover, I suppose that it is the privilidge of the inventors to create
>the word for their inventions and discoveries (mostly English speaking
>countries). I have noticed that Hungarians are attempting at least to
>come up with, albeit mangled, translations or equivalences for the
>original. This takes time. For example, lift is now also called felvono,
>or eszkelator is now called mozgolepcso:, floppy disk is called a lemez,
>and a display is called kepernyo", etc.
>
>I did enjoy reading the 17&18 century docs you posted.
>Peter
>
>Peter:your examples shouldn't state "it is now called",since those names
were used when I was a kid some 50 years ago,rather those names changed in
later years.
Andy.
+ - Re: Unaffordability of Hungary and an unrelated questio (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sam Stowe:

> Farias's book on Heidegger and his Nazi affiliations was scrupulously
> researched and documented.

 ... and made it fit into one's career goals.

The best critique about Victor Farias I ever read is one
simple sentence:

If he wrote a book about Heidegger, he at least could have
tried to spend one hour to actually read his writings.

That's enough about Victor Farias. I know, that he is a
hero for your sophomore level understanding of the world,
the Nazis and the Holocaust. I'm sorry. He is not a hero
for me.
                                                Sz. Zoli
+ - Re: Unaffordability of Hungary and an unrelated questio (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sam Stowe:
> Slander stems from intent and reckless disregard for the truth.
Yessire, and the shit is in your fan.
                                                         (Sz.Z.)
+ - Re: Amazing America (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Another amazing point for a Hungarian that Americans
actually finance their own churches (and more: they
finance public broadcastings, crusades of the their
favourite preachers, too).

In Hungary people are too poor to support their
churches so that the church could be self-sufficient.
And it makes the church dependent on the Hungarian
'Uncle Sam', the government. In this sense the
Hungarian churches are not separated from the state,
and this makes them un-free.

What is amazing in America, that churches are really
free institutions and are free to criticize the
government. It is the real spirit of freedom, it is
what America is all about.

I still haven't had answers for some questions:
1. Who said:
   "God, as I believe, is the God of second chances."?
2. Why did not Kadar Janos have any children?
3. Whatever happened to the grizly abortion bill?
   (Bill... !? :-( )

Cheers, it is just another nice day in your life,

(and Algore qouted the Bible last night in the Vice
Presidential debate!!  ;-)
                                              Sz.Zoli
+ - Re: Amazing America (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>
> I still haven't had answers for some questions:
> 1. Who said:
>    "God, as I believe, is the God of second chances."?
> 2. Why did not Kadar Janos have any children?
> 3. Whatever happened to the grizly abortion bill?
>    (Bill... !? :-( )

In the case of a possible death of my wife, I want the late abortion right
to be there. I won't force mothers to die ;-)


>
> Cheers, it is just another nice day in your life,
>
> (and Algore qouted the Bible last night in the Vice
> Presidential debate!!  ;-)
>                                               Sz.Zoli
>
and I think I noticed both candidates "praying" for peace and democracy in
the states that one side had been victimized or saved by the present
administration. Why shoudln't he hvae quoted the Bible? It has been very
useful in the south for many Republicans to justify racism, the stelaing
of mineral rights in KY, and other jsut as nasty things.

Darren Purcell
Department of Geography
Florida State University
+ - Re: P.Soltesz or Sermon from the mount (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Andy:
Of course not...IF I were I certtianly would not be here!
Unfortunatelly we all have some problems. Peter
BTW:
I will give the response I promised later...I am still awaiting the
answers to questions:
1- Do you (thats all) know where the 13 tribes of Israel are and who they
are?
2- Does anyone know the relationship(s) between Hungary and the UK?
<><><><><><>

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Andy Kozma wrote:

> >On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Mark Humphreys wrote:
> >
> ><SNIP>
> >> I find the bible sad when it mentions that you commit a sin even by
> >> thinking about doing a sin!  Options in life always involve making choices
> >> to do or not to do something. I personally have *respect* for someone who
> >> sees the bad and chooses to be strong enough and do good.
> >
> ><<<<<<<< Well I suppose if one thinks about that, God is perfect -
> >wherein sin NEVER enters the mind. Would it not be great if we could all
> >be like that?
> >Peter
> >are you insinuateing Peter that you are that pe4rfect person?I hope not.
> I could contradict you pretty fast.This is not a threat,and by the way I am
> still waitingfor yourpromissed shocker.
> Kepp smiling:Andy.
> >
>
+ - How to get from Budapest to Timisoara (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Can anybody tell me the best way to get from Budapest to Timisoara
(Romania). I suppose the train is a good  option. A timetable together
with an approximate price would help me a lot.
Thanks for your help.

Alain.
+ - Re: How to get from Budapest to Timisoara (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Note that the Hungarian State Railways just recently announced their
Web-page: <http://www.mav.hu/>;.

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, ALAIN DUNOYER wrote:
> Can anybody tell me the best way to get from Budapest to Timisoara
> (Romania). I suppose the train is a good  option. A timetable together
> with an approximate price would help me a lot.
 --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!
+ - Re: Amazing America (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Actually, the American government, local, state, and federal, does
subsidize churches through the taxation system, by providing exemptions
for the churches themselves, and a reduction in taxes for those who
contribute to churches.

Louis Elteto

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Zoltan Szekely wrote:

> Another amazing point for a Hungarian that Americans
> actually finance their own churches (and more: they
> finance public broadcastings, crusades of the their
> favourite preachers, too).
>
> In Hungary people are too poor to support their
> churches so that the church could be self-sufficient.
> And it makes the church dependent on the Hungarian
> 'Uncle Sam', the government. In this sense the
> Hungarian churches are not separated from the state,
> and this makes them un-free.
>
> What is amazing in America, that churches are really
> free institutions and are free to criticize the
> government. It is the real spirit of freedom, it is
> what America is all about.
>
+ - Re: Cut Taxes to raise Revenue (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On contrast with the apparently well-qualified Mr (Dr ?) Soltesz, the
economics of taxation is not my professional area.  Hence, I have not
studied the issues in detail and have no firm opinion on them.

It just happens, though, that The Economist has surveyed '60 macroeconomists
at America's top 15 universities (around half of the total number)' on
economic issues pertaining to the current election circus in the US.
With a response rate of 'almost 70%', this provides a statistically sound
sample of the relevant professional field. (The Economist, October 5th.)

Herewith some of the questions, with the percentage of respondents opting
for the alternatives offered.

'Do you prefer the Dole tax plan or Clinton's tax proposals ?'
Dole 22%, Clinton 46%, neither 32%

('"Both [plans] are bad, but Clinton's is less irresponsible," is a typical
view.' comments The Economist.)

'Do you believe that Dole will be able to cut taxes and balance the budget
by 2002 without cutting Medicare and defence spending, as he has promised ?'
Yes 17%, No 83%

'Dole's tax plan assumes that 27% of the cost of tax cuts will be paid for
through increased revenues from higher growth and changing taxpayer
behaviour.  Is this realistic ?'
Yes 22%, No 78%

It would appear that collective professional opinion is rather clear on the
issues in the US, and this should have a little more clout than individuals'
opinions published wherever.

This issue out of the way, perhaps we can turn our attention to issues
that ARE relevant for a discussion group on Hungarian affairs.

George Antony
+ - Re: The Bible - (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article
>,
 says...
>
>Agens said (snip)
>Sorry, Peter, but the English version of the book is not the literal
>translation of the title.
><<<<< Here is a perfect example of why many bibles are wrong and why we
>need to be careful. Even in a simple translation from German to English
>the name and meaning has totally changed!
>Peter

If you would take the trouble to read the book, you will know that th
translation is perfect.  It is a popular archeology book, proving some
sites described in the Bible are historical.

Re: literal translations.  I am sure (if you had Hungarian education) you
are familiar with Karinthy's Ady translation?

Agnes
+ - Re: English in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
says...
>
 has put the question in HUNGARY #812:
>>Question:
>>
>>1) Can you say 'erobikozom' to mean "sometimes I do aerobics"? If so,
what is
>>   its correct spelling?
>>
>Yes, you can say, and most of Hungarians would say so, although in my
>opinion this way of pronounciation is incorrect. Aerobics is related to
the
>Greek word "aero" (air-), which, in Hungarian compound words like
>"aerodinamika" (aerodynamics), should be pronounced (at least by
"educated"
>Hungarians) as it is written - separately pronouncing vowels "a" and
"e".
>(For non-Hungarian list members: Hungarian "a" sounds like the vowel in
>"bar", and "e" sounds like the vowel in "net"). As to spelling, even
less
>educated Hungarians would use "ae". Thus the correct spelling and
>pronounciation is: 'aerobikozom'.
>
>In olden times Hungarians used to know this: there is an archaic or
poetic
>Hungarian word "a'jer" for air, indicating in some way the separate
>pronounciation of "a" and "e".
>
>Nevertheless, there is a tendency toward using the version mentioned in
the
>question. (Note that most people using this wrong pronounciation of "ae"
>would say 'erobikozok' - but this is a separate story.)
>
>George

How about tornazom?  Agnes
+ - The Visa-Free List (2nd Passports) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

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+ - Re: development of our language (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hungarian - just as every live language - is constantly developing.
40-50 years ago (i.e., when we left) Hungarian was full of Latin, Greek,
German.  Many expressions we use are straight translations from Austrian
German.  Today, most words and expressions are adapted from English - not
only because the lingua franca of modern technology is English, but
because most modern inventions originate from the US.  I still remember
when my mother first visited and marvelled how many "utanfuto"s were on
the road.  I promptly understood she meant trailers, although I have
never heard the word before.  Incidentally, the latest Hungarian
expression I read in a letter I got from my cousin: "lekarcsusitottak".
For those who are not familiar with it - his wife was downsized...

Regards, Agnes
+ - Re: How to get from Budapest to Timisoara (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:10 PM 10/10/96 -0400, Zoli Fekete wrote:

> Note that the Hungarian State Railways just recently announced their
>Web-page: <http://www.mav.hu/>;.

True, but unfortunately the timetable option is not functional yet on the
English version and it is only for some domestic trains on the international
version. I was looking for similar information recently (from Budapest to
Kolozsvar/Cluj) and was unable to find it on the Internet.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: English in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Language changes constantly with new concepts.
>I have to share a new Hungarian expression I learned this summer.
>@ = kukac
>
>Eva
>Eva Kende B.Sc. author of "Eva's Hungarian Kitchen".
>
There is one more for @ - farkinca (farkinc a - ~ "a" with a tail)


******************************
*       Lajos Monoki         *
*  NCR Hungary - CSS Szeged  *
* e-mail: *
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******************************


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
           Edgar Allan Poe
+ - Re: English in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 has put the question in HUNGARY #812:
>Question:
>
>1) Can you say 'erobikozom' to mean "sometimes I do aerobics"? If so, what is
>   its correct spelling?
>
Yes, you can say, and most of Hungarians would say so, although in my
opinion this way of pronounciation is incorrect. Aerobics is related to the
Greek word "aero" (air-), which, in Hungarian compound words like
"aerodinamika" (aerodynamics), should be pronounced (at least by "educated"
Hungarians) as it is written - separately pronouncing vowels "a" and "e".
(For non-Hungarian list members: Hungarian "a" sounds like the vowel in
"bar", and "e" sounds like the vowel in "net"). As to spelling, even less
educated Hungarians would use "ae". Thus the correct spelling and
pronounciation is: 'aerobikozom'.

In olden times Hungarians used to know this: there is an archaic or poetic
Hungarian word "a'jer" for air, indicating in some way the separate
pronounciation of "a" and "e".

Nevertheless, there is a tendency toward using the version mentioned in the
question. (Note that most people using this wrong pronounciation of "ae"
would say 'erobikozok' - but this is a separate story.)

George
+ - Re: Amazing America (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Another amazing point for a Hungarian that Americans
>actually finance their own churches (and more: they
>finance public broadcastings, crusades of the their
>favourite preachers, too).
>
>In Hungary people are too poor to support their
>churches so that the church could be self-sufficient.
>And it makes the church dependent on the Hungarian
>'Uncle Sam', the government.

The government gets noney from "poor hungarian people" as taxes.
So in Hungary even non-religious people "support" curches.

 In this sense the
>Hungarian churches are not separated from the state,
>and this makes them un-free.
>
>What is amazing in America, that churches are really
>free institutions and are free to criticize the
>government. It is the real spirit of freedom, it is
>what America is all about.

Does it mean that freedom = criticizing? I doubt.

>I still haven't had answers for some questions:
>1. Who said:
>   "God, as I believe, is the God of second chances."?
>2. Why did not Kadar Janos have any children?

Actually he has a daughter, but not "officially".

>3. Whatever happened to the grizly abortion bill?
>   (Bill... !? :-( )
>
>Cheers, it is just another nice day in your life,
>
>(and Algore qouted the Bible last night in the Vice
>Presidential debate!!  ;-)
>                                              Sz.Zoli
>


L. Monoki

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