Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 649
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-04-26
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: police minister (mind)  51 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Szucs' Toxic Contamination (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
3 Maszirozas szeretni kell(Szucs) was:Re: Szeretni kell a (mind)  63 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Here you go, again! (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
5 More tounge twisters (was Re: Weores S) (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Reality check! (used to be Szucs/Toxic/Freedom of s (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Horthy (mind)  89 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Weores S (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
9 Hungarian email pointer (Version: 0.90, Last-modified: (mind)  96 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Weores S (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Horthy (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
12 Police minister, plus (mind)  74 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
14 Interact? (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Interact? (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind)  34 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Who brings up the subject again? (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind)  90 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Who brings up the subject again? (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Interact? (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind)  44 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: Who brings up the subject again? (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: Interact? (mind)  198 sor     (cikkei)
24 Another subject (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: Horthy (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: Petofi Radio from Budapest on the Internet (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: Interact? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
28 Re: More tounge twisters (was Re: Weores S) (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
29 Re: Interact? (mind)  226 sor     (cikkei)
30 Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
31 Regattas of the Americas (;-) Brand new thread (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
32 Re: Interact? (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
33 Weores S (mind)  69 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: police minister (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Felado : Fencsik Gabor
> > Alcohol Firearms and Tobacco, the CIA, the DEA, the NSA, and all local
> > and state law enforcement agencies.
> Not to speak of all the fire departments in the country.
The point being that in the bad old system all paramilitary activities outside
Defense's bailiwick were placed under the Interior.

> the equivalent of the ATF is, I think, under the Ministry
> of Finance, isn't it?  (Penzugyorseg, I believe.)
Strictly speaking yes, Pe1nzu2gyo3rse1g is responsible for alcohol and tobacco
(but not for firearms). But in Hungary Finance does not maintain any kind of
paramilitary force (read: armed thugs on government payroll) such as the ATF,
for this is the privilege of the Interior.

> As for the equivalents of the CIA and the NSA, I am quite sure you
> are mistaken.  The infamous departments of the Communist era (III/1,
> III/2, etc.) dealing with domestic spying, foreign intelligence, and
> counter- intelligence have either been eliminated or transferred out
> of the Ministry of the Interior. Department III/3, the core of the secret
> police apparatus, has been abolished, with most of its archives shredded
> and incinerated sometime in 1989.  The rest of the Department III
> subdivisions have been transferred to the National Security Office
> (Nemzetbiztonsagi Hivatal) which does not report to the Minister of the
> Interior.
I was trying to explain what the French tradition of `police ministry' is all
about, since it sounds unbelievable to someone who grows up in an environment
where the separation of powers is axiomatic.  The National Security Office,
patterned on the postwar German institution with the same name, was
established in Hungary after 1989 for exactly the same reason as in Germany
after WWII, namely to check abuses by distributing powers more evenly. What
happened to the archives is very unclear -- tons of paper were shredded, to be
sure, but how about microfiche and computer records? There is still quite a
bit of wrangling over who gets access to what, and about multiparty oversight
of the NSO.

> So the J. Edgar Hoover image does not fit any more.  But we
> should not feel sorry for the poor Minister of the Interior.  He still
> got all those traffic cops to boss around.
You are making light of a less than ideal situation.  In Hungary, there is
still nothing like the FBI, all criminal investigations are conducted by the
same police force that provides the traffic cops and local law enforcement,
and the boss is a cabinet member. The opportunities for abuse are tremendous,
and if Kuncze is not a J. Edgar-type personality that's just an accidental
piece of luck, the structure is still in place for one. Actually now that
SZDSZ has the post would be the best time to agressively curtail the powers of
Interior, for what would happen if MSZP decided to break the coalition (and
they could, they have the votes) and Kuncze was replaced, say, by Mr.
Szu3ro2s? I bet you would feel a lot less comfortable about his ability to
boss those traffic cops around.

Andra1s Kornai
+ - Re: Szucs' Toxic Contamination (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (Stowewrite)
says:
>
>In article >, George Antony
> semaphores from Oz:
>
>>And never will.  If you still think that you can actually have a dialogue
>>with him then I have a cheap bridge for you around here.
>
>And I'd love to show you this nice beach-front property I have.


Sam, you forgot to mention that the beach-front property is in Arizona!

Excellent place to retire to....:-)))))

me
+ - Maszirozas szeretni kell(Szucs) was:Re: Szeretni kell a (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Vegre egy uj "topic" - Massag(e)

In article <v01510108ada3695e956a@[204.156.156.118]>, Andras Szucs
> says:
>
>Do I detect a certain hostility in tone? It looks like I am almost
>"marginalized" and/or "excommunicated" from The Group,
>because I beg to differ a tad. Where is the fondness for the
>different ("hol itt a massag szeretete")?
I am confused - did you mean "massage" (in this case you left off the
letter "e" on the end of the word). Or did you mean to say
"message" - in which case the spelling is different and it means something
else. Tell you the truth a rubdown sounds great to me today after work
- particularly after reading your stuff. It caused my back muscels to
tighten up.

>>Sure there was "massag" .... in 1956, as
>well  I really loved my weekly trips to the Gellert baths...
( snip )

>
>I am sorry IF your Father wasn't SZABADSAGHARCOS,
>but I forgive you for that -- since that was his sin IF he shot
>freedomfighters, not yours, Dear Aniko.  (Before using up
>all your yearly supply of exlamation marks, mistakenly again,
>please note the BIG IF-s in the previous sentence...)
The above paragraph is unforgivable, you are lower than the snakes
belly or the ducks derriere...
>
>Suppose I am the "little massag"
What great title for a modern childrens book:
"A kiss maszirozo"

in this Lovely Group, a tiny
>minority nobody agrees with (except those who expressed
>admiration to the Hungarian Freedom Fighters for over four
>decades by now,
I was active in the 1956 apprising along with
thousands of others, so do not
preach to me. I have a sneaking suspicion that you were not involved
in it at all, you may have not even been living in Hungary that time.
Those who gave their life and we who survived do not need you to
carry the flag.
[ snip...]

>How about respecting -maybe for a second- the right of a
>"minority of one" to freely express his differing views?
You most certainly have the right to express your views,
slander, libel etc., is NOT in that category.
>
>Or have I strayed into a hate-mongering intolerant nazi
>party cell, under Kapo Tamas Gaspar Miklos, who under the
>disguise of abusing the name "Hungary" violently hate
>Hungarians, "Hitler utolso csatlosa", "Bunos nemzet",
>"Freedomfighters" or younameit?
You are trying to confuse the issues (osszekeveri a szezont
a fazonal..) or you have totally lost your marbles.

>Oh, tell me "NO"! Oh, tell me, I am, the "endangered species",
Oh, I am telling you to go get a life, get a massage,
take a slow boat to China....give us a brake.

me
+ - Re: Here you go, again! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article <v01510106ada34a8054c5@[204.156.156.118]>, Andras Szucs
> says:
>
>Szaszvari wrote: "Please forgive me if I've got it wrong, but it seems
>that Ms Balogh (and others) are denouncing Horthy as an enemy of
>the people of Hungary, whilst A. Szucs is claiming Horthy to be a
>great hero."
>
>I forgive you for a honest mistake if you take it back that I ever "claimed
>Horthy to be a great hero". I NEVER HAVE!
[hysterical stuff deleted]

I was only asking. It was an honest mistake and THANK YOU for your
forgiveness.

Regards,

George

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Acorn..RISC OS * IBM PeeCee..PCDOS..Win-OS/2 * NW London Computer Club
 ICPUG..Commodore=64 ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!
+ - More tounge twisters (was Re: Weores S) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Misi,

     How about the following:

          Az Ipafai papnak fapipaja van,
          tehat az Ipafai fapipa
          egy papi fapipa

     or could you translate:

          Nyaktekereszetimelfekvence  (= Nyakkendo)

     how about this in the English language:

         Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.
         If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers,
         Where's the peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked?


     Regards,
     me
+ - Re: Reality check! (used to be Szucs/Toxic/Freedom of s (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Aniko Dunford
> writes:

>PS:  Sam: excuse all the !'s.  There are times, when only !'s can put an
>emotion behind the words..agree?
>
Mais oui! And I still have a vast treasure trove of earthy and naughty
downeast North Carolina insults that I have not yet used. Used in
conjunction with some well-placed !s, they'll be like driving a wooden
stake through the heart of a vampire. (Hmm -- Bela Lugosi -- now there's a
thread I definitely intend to follow up on.) Isn't cross-cultural
pollination a wonderful thing sometimes? I must buckle down this summer,
however, and actually try to learn some Hungarian.
Sam Stowe
+ - Re: Horthy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, "Eva S. Balogh"
> says:
>
>Dear George,
>
>>Please
>>forgive me if I've got it wrong, but it seems that Ms Balogh (and others)
>>are denouncing Horthy as an enemy of the people of Hungary, whilst A. Szucs
>>is claiming Horthy to be a great hero. Is this right?
>
>        Yes, you are wrong. I didn't denounce Horthy. Horthy was denounced
>on the Forum by an extreme right winger as a traitor to the Hungarian cause.
>Reason: belatedly but Horthy tried to get Hungary out of the war!

Right, I wasn't sure about the original arguments to some of the subsequent
replies I saw. As I've replied to A. Szucs: I was only asking. Thanks for
clearing it up.

[snip]
>        First of all, he wasn't an aristocrat. He came from a gentry family
>with a few hundred acres. Second, yes, he tried he best, but basically he
>was an extremely weak man, who was easily influenced. He agreed with both
>sides. If the militaristic pro-German generals visited him: he agreed with
>them. If he was visited by Kallay or Bethlen, he agreed with them also. One
>day he was sure that the Germans would lose, next day, he could be persuaded
>by one of the pro-German generals that the Germans would conquer the world.

Okay, to use *aristocrat* was wrong, even if he was considered a *noble*
figure. The rest I know.

[snip]
>        Where on earth did you get the idea that any responsible historian
>would call Horthy a fascist? That was only fashionable under the stalinist
>Rakosi regime. That kind of distortion of history was abandoned by the
>1960s. No history book of the last thirty years would claim that Horthy was
>a nazi, or that the Horthy regime was a fascist regime. No one says such
>stupid things, especially not Eva Balogh, kangaroo court or not.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I had the idea that any
responsible historian would call Horthy fascist? I offered criticism
against the possible accusation, didn't I? As I said, I only speculated
that someone might have said that. I'm probably older than you and was
pretty familiar with the *official* ever-changing communist versions
of WWII, so it's only reasonable for me wonder whether someone was trying
to rehabilitate that old line. (BTW Nazi-Soviet affairs was a strong
interest of mine from the mid-sixties until about 1980 and, as previously
said, I built up a pretty good personal library on that particular branch
of history, but got rid of the lot when I found that once the lessons of
history have been learnt, to wallow in all that stuff was morbid. Anyway,
I lived in West Germany for a few years and that stuff got in the way..it
certainly wasn't anything to *score points* with.... )

>        No, Eva Balogh got into a little argument with a man who claimed
>that Ferenc Szalasi, the Hungarian nazi, fascist, hungarist, take your pick,
>was trying to save what could be saved after October 15, 1944 while Horthy
>"wanted to betray the honor of the Hungarian soldier." This was a direct
>quote from the unnamed correspondent from the Forum.

Thank you for putting me straight on the origin of the thread.

>So, you completely misunderstood the whole thing.

As you keep reminding me. Isn't your tone just a bit too arrogant in your
triumphalistic put down when I was only asking? At least I'm up front and
reply to corrective postings (unlike one person on the *Romans and Romanians*
thread a while back.)

>And in case you are a bit fuzzy on that
>period of Hungarian history: At the time of Szalasi's "reign" Horthy was in
>German captivity.

I probably know this better than you, but thank you for the history lesson,
anyway.

>Ha hallgattal volna, bolcs maradtal volna.

A patronizing attitude betrays inherent weakness.

Best regards,

George

PS: I like your spirit, but the style, uurrghhh...

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Acorn..RISC OS * IBM PeeCee..PCDOS..Win-OS/2 * NW London Computer Club
 ICPUG..Commodore=64 ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!
+ - Re: Weores S (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Misi,

How about this one:
+ - Hungarian email pointer (Version: 0.90, Last-modified: (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Archive-name: hungarian/pointer
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: pointer
Bit-listserv-hungary-archive-name: pointer
Version: 0.90 (beta)
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 1995/11/21
URL: http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer

 This document summarizes network-related resources of Hungarian
interest, which are accessible via email. Some of the most readily
available sources of information can be found in the archives of
periodical information postings to Usenet; these documents are commonly
known as FAQs (from Frequently Asked/Answered Questions). Knowing the
name of the file you can retrieve it by sending email to
 with the command "send
usenet/news.answers/<ARCHIVE-NAME>" in the message (without the quotes,
and with substituting the actual name for <ARCHIVE-NAME> in the pattern
shown above) - for example, to get the document described below, use

 send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq

 To learn more about the RTFM server just send the command "help" to it
- it will provide step-by-step intstructions on how to use the
archives, on retrieving indexes and so on.

 "Hungarian electronic resources FAQ" is a comprehensive collection
dealing with email, FTP, WWW and other Internet tools; its archive name
is 'hungarian-faq' (and the mail-server command to get it is shown in
the example above).
 If you only have direct access to email then, in order to use the
other tools, you'll need the methods described in "Accessing The
Internet By E-Mail" (Archive-name:
internet-services/access-via-email).
 To get a general introduction to Usenet (with some guides to Internet
as well - and explanation of how they are different, too) see "Welcome
to news.newusers.questions!" (Archive-name: news-newusers-intro).
 For a guide to finding someone's e-mail addresses, see the "FAQ: How
to find people's E-mail addresses" (Archive-name: finding-addresses).
Do notice that it's usually inappropriate to send such blanket requests
to mailing lists; the search tools available give much better chance to
locate addresses sought than posted queries in any case!
 An overview of commercial on-line services in Hungary is available by
John Horvath >
(Archive-name: hungarian/comm-providers).

 The hungarian-faq describes several email lists related to Hungary;
only a brief summary is shown here. Please keep in mind that
subscription requests (and other administrative communications) should
be directed to the server address, NOT to the lists themselves.

Server: 
 List:  (the HUNGARY LISTSERV list)

Server: 
 List: HOL (Hungary Online)

Server: 
 List: hungary-report

Server: 
 Lists: OMRI-L (Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest)
        MIDEUR-L (Middle European discussion list)

Server: 
 List: cet-online (Central Europe Today On-Line; email )

Server: 
 List: CERRO-L (Central European Regional Research Organization)

Server: email to  (Hollosi Information Exchange)
 Lists: HIX is a collection of several separate lists, including
  - MOZAIK, a collection of news items in English
  - various discussion forums in Hungarian language
  - SCM and HUNGROUPS, which are email-accessible archives of the Usenet
    newsgroup soc.culture.magyar and the hun.* national hierarchy,
    respectively; to get a directory listing of these archives (as well
    as that of other HIX lists), send email to  with
    "arch" in the 'Subject:' line. Note that the SENDDOC utility takes
    its parameter from the 'Subject:' of the message (unlike many other
    servers, like the ones described previously, which use the body)!

 Note that this document is available on the
 <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>; homepage for the "Hungarian
electronic resources FAQ" at the HIX WWW-server.
 The latter also provides access for the full FAQ via
 'finger ', and for this brief pointer you are
reading via 'finger ' (notice that you
will likely need to redirect the output to a pager or a file in order
to read it). The Usenet archive name for this document is
 hungarian/pointer .

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '>
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!
+ - Re: Weores S (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Jim's Hungarian is remarkable. I am especially greatful for the following:

>Azt mondj=E1k a hatalmasok
>hogy akinek hat alma sok
>annak hatalmas ok
>hogy ne legyen hatalma sok.

        It brings back old memories--I spent a wonderful summer with the
family of my mother's first cousin. There were five children ranging from
their twenties to five. I had a lovely time and it was there that I learned
this little ditty--I never forgot it either.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Horthy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear George!

>I probably know this better than you, but thank you for the history lesson,
>anyway.
>
>>Ha hallgattal volna, bolcs maradtal volna.
>
>A patronizing attitude betrays inherent weakness.
>
>Best regards,
>
>George
>
>PS: I like your spirit, but the style, uurrghhh...

        I am sorry for the tone, but you must understand that my patience is
leaving me after a whole week of this nonsense. You got my goat when you
talked about "simplistic this and that" and "Eva Balogh's kangaroo court."
These remarks didn't sound terribly friendly to me. But I am still sorry
that I offended you. In general, I try to avoid it.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Police minister, plus (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Readers may suspect that I have some rather profound clashes
of opinion with Andras Kornai. However, this time I agree with
his choice of translating "Belugyminiszter" to "Police minister".
He also does a good job describing the excess of powers that
this Institution concentrates, since the dark days of Laszlo Rajk Sr.

Problem is, the picture is even darker than portrayed by him.
In normal democracies, any Minister would be under control
by the government, and in turn government would be under
contol by the Parliament, and in turn the Parliament would be
under control by The People.

It wasn't so in Hungary during communism and it isn't today.

Police Minister Kuncze was handpicked for the job by the
minor (in numbers) coalition partner SZDSZ and is doing
exactly what SZDSZ wants him to do. Kuncze is the single
most important "switch" by which "Hungarian democracy"
(what an oxymoron!) is derailed, since his supreme policing
power is controlled not by the government -- but by a party
with an extremist agenda on the Hungarian Nation. (In fact,
SZDSZ is so despised, that Eva Balogh just recently came
back from Budapest, declaring in public here that "SZDSZ is
doomed", there is just too much rejection built up in voters.
Or was that statement just another lie? Who knows.) Worse,
SZDSZ is controlled by a man who fashions his police state
evidently after his father's "best" traditions -- and his father
was a lieutenant  general of the infamous AVH!  (Hungarian
version of KGB)

Proof that Police Ministry is out of control by Prime Minister?
If the government (headed by Gyula Horn, member of
the Workers' Militia, butchers of SZABADSAGHARCOSOK)
could control Kuncze and his Police Ministry  -- Gyula Horn
would not be adamant setting up a COMPLETELY SEPARATE
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION - reporting
directly to Prime Minister Horn, not to Police Minister Kuncze !
As we all know, present dogfight in Hungarian politics centers
around this very question; on this very day:

                "who is watching the watchmen?"

Is it the SZDSZ who controls Police Minister, or a (new)
Governmental Bureau of Investigation can do it, for Horn.
In what  ITALIAN journalists brand as "Kleptocracy", where
they are getting away with the "Robbery of the Century", it is
extremely easy to exercise supreme power by investigating
economic crimes.

It is all deja vu.  If you want a parallel in Hungarian politics,
just look back to Rajk and then Kadar as "Police Ministers",
and remember the head of the Party with a sinister agenda
(Rakosi), who had his AVH (Hungarian version of KGB)
to revolver those with the revolvers. Then, just think what
happened in 1956 when the whole mess blew up.
(Hint, hint: SZABADSAGHARCOSOK
http://www.siliconvalley.com/magyar.html)

If you want an other parallel, look at USA politics.
On one hand we have a "Police Minister" (Kuncze), who
is not at all unlike J. Edgar Hoover -- and on the other the man
(Horn) who IN THEORY could override, perhaps IN THEORY
even remove him, not unlike Kennedy.

Problem is, we all know what happened to Jack (and Bob)
Kennedy when they clashed with the Hoover boys (plus).

Phantasy? One COULD say it is. Were it not a fact that Gyula
Horn was only a hair fracture of his neckbone away from
eternity in an "accident", just a night before ascending to
power, when SZDSZ opposed Gyula Horn to become
Prime Minister.

Instead of their "more malleable" favorite.
+ - Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, John Czifra
> writes:

> I do know that each of you are very
>smart individuals and have lots to say, but the way you all have been
>carrying
>on makes you all look like WACK JOBS to the rest of us.
>
>I know the list manager would hate to "police" anyone on here. The task
would
>be Herculean at best, but that may be the only viable plan, unless you
all
>can
>just STOP THE BULLSHIT!!!!! It's just, way too, simple to label (brand)
>someone
>and have that person banished because you don't agree with him/her. Don't
>rely
>on labeling as your crutch, you'll bust your ass, eventually.
>
>Udv.,
>Czifra Jancsi
>john_czifra @ shi.com
>
>
We really have scraped bottom when Czifra thinks he can pass himself off
as the sweet light of reason. Having shoveled his share of bullshit on
here whenever he disagreed with someone, the fumes are now apparently
making him giddy.
Sam Stowe
+ - Interact? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Is there interact in Hungary? Or are taveller cheques still my best bet?


> ---------------------------------------------/\--------/\--------------
Christina Magyar                             | {}    {} |   Keep
Carleton University                          |    \/    |  Smiling
                                             |  \____/  |   !!!!
Email address:        \        /     :)
> ------------------------------------------------{ || }-------------------
+ - Re: Interact? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 04:51 PM 4/25/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Is there interact in Hungary? Or are taveller cheques still my best bet?
>
>
>---------------------------------------------/\--------/\--------------
>Christina Magyar                             | {}    {} |   Keep
>Carleton University                          |    \/    |  Smiling
>                                             |  \____/  |   !!!!
>Email address:        \        /     :)
>------------------------------------------------{ || }-------------------

I did not understand what you meant, so I looked up my dictionary.
Interact:v.i. to act on each other.

Yes, in Hungary people do act on each other (in various ways:-))))))))). I
would still suggest traveller's cheques.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Haliho,
>
>This, truly, is the BEST all-around acting I've ever SEEN. What a
>performance!!! When are you folks going to do the talk show circuit??
>
>I've been sitting on the sidelines watching this thing develop (not really the
>appropriate word. Fester is more closer.) for a couple months into a cesspool
>of nonsense. Both sides have totally lost control of this. It was interesting
>for a few weeks ,
>Udv.,
>Czifra Jancsi
>john_czifra @ shi.com
>
I just joined to see if i could obtain some history & geography lessons...in
particular about a forefather from Pakozd

I am about to quit in disgust...is this what is referred to as a waste of
time on the internet...listening to someone blather

barry sands

________________________________________________________________
<                                                               >
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<                                       0        127 days to    >
<                           __0         ^/      Ironman Canada  >
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<       ,---    <,      (*)/ (*)       / ^/                     >
<                                                               >
<                                                               <
<     Wireless Computing Associates       M.Y.O.B.  Solvers     >
<      1907 Abbott St.  Kelowna, BC  V1Y 1B8                    >
<      tel (604) 763.4056  Fax (604) 763.5610                   >
<_______________________________________________________________>
+ - Re: Who brings up the subject again? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article <v01510104ada4356ce116@[204.156.156.118]>, the fictional entity
calling itself Andras Szucs >
writes:

>One can actually find a statement in Stowe's latest filthy hate-speech
>worth responding to. (Now, that HE IS stupid enough to re-raise the
>issue of "Balogh Eva is a pathological liar"):
>
>Stowe writes:
>"Eva herself admitted right up front to her mistake in calculating
>percentages.
>That's what a scholar does. You persist in character assassination and
>lies. That's what a goofball extremist does."
>
>I beg to disagree, though it is beneath my dignity to respond to
>Stowe's hateful diatribe in kind.

Then why are you posting this? You can't even refrain from contradicting
yourself for half a sentence.
>
>I don't wish to dwell on that a "scholar" does not make such a stupid
>error in elementary-school mathematics in calculating percentages.
>Much more important is, that once that YOU brought the issue up, I can
>document -again- that Eva Balogh is a LIAR, showing it at this time with
>the "percentages" issue. (Her another LIE that "we don't call 1956 a
>SZABADSAGHARC in Hungarian" has been amply refuted).
We're all still waiting to hear from you about what you did during the
war, daddy. The information you so helpfully posted on the Web indicates
you graduated in the Class of 1962. So you should have been about, what,
12 years old at the time? Some of the older hands on here who actually did
something in 1956 can tell us whether a 12 year-old would have been old
enough to participate in the fighting.

On another subject, are your employers at NYU and NASA Ames aware of your
rather unorthodox views on Jews? What say we get some of our list mates
who are fluent in Hungarian to make copies of your postings over the last
year or so here and on Forum? We could then ask our respective Congressmen
why our tax dollars are being spent to fund a bigot. It would make
interesting reading for the media in your area, too.
Sam Stowe
+ - Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:05 PM 4/24/96 -0400, you wrote:

Dear John:

Proactivity, and all it's positive attributes seems to have failed somewhere
in the new and wonderful education system of ours  - if you are a typical
example of the byproduct that is.

It is, and  has always been easy to sit back and: generalize,  judge,
criticize .. the like;  ...  I've not seen a thing in the way of
constructive *anything* stemming from you relating to the subject you so
have critized &  judged - nor have I seen any positive comments to the
people involved, whom you have chosen to categorize by utilizing
generalizations in this instance; or for that matter, in any other instances
throughout the last few months of postings which stem from your
'finger-thoughts'.

So, being a priviledged member of this group; if you truly had a way of
stopping Szucs, as you so migthtily(sp) claim; I would have expected you to
jump in at a time when it might really have made a positive
impact/difference to all involved.   As opposed to your prefered opposite of
sitting back.... and biting your time ... when you can be most effective at
criticising, judging and generalizing.  It is not like your posts were
banned - or were they?

This tactic utilized by you; sorry to have to say; I find no much better
than the tactics utilized by Szucs.  Surely to goodness John, *you* can do
better!.... and now... before your fingers decide to think for you, how
about digesting the words above first?

Regards,
Aniko

>This, truly, is the BEST all-around acting I've ever SEEN. What a
>performance!!! When are you folks going to do the talk show circuit??
>
>I've been sitting on the sidelines watching this thing develop (not really the
>appropriate word. Fester is more closer.) for a couple months into a cesspool
>of nonsense. Both sides have totally lost control of this. It was interesting
>for a few weeks , but now, once again you've all proven to me, again, that the
>saying "Hungarians can't get together or unify for anything." is 100% true.
>
>What I enjoy the most about all of you is that you finally decide that NOW is
>the time to "clean house" way after the fact. You could've stopped the "Scourg
e
>of Szucs" and the like, at any point of this long, tiring, boring, thoughtless
,
>unstructured, pointless, argument, but instead of dealing with it in the
>beginning; you all let it get out of hand and participated in the back and
>forth volley of personal attacks on each other, which doesn't make any of you
>better than the next person. You're all just like bratty little kids. Remember
>what they did in school when you were caught fighting with someone else?? The
>both of you were suspended. It didn't matter who swung the first punch. The
>fact that you lashed back was reason enough to suspend you. If you didn't lash
>back and let the other beat you, then only the aggressor was suspended. Those
>rules apply in daily life, today, too.
>
>If I were list manager, all those involved in this "brawl" should be booted of
f
>for awhile. It's the only fair thing to do in this situation, isn't it?? No on
e
>on this list  should get "preferred treatment" because they happen to be in th
e
>"in crowd" or in the majority. It doesn't work that way. This way the "Interne
t
>air" would be a little bit cleaner and maybe some REAL discussion and exchange
>of ideas by ALL sides can be done in a more peaceful manner and maybe those
>parties involved will conduct themselves better on this list the next time.
>This list is nothing more than a soap opera more than anything else. "What wil
l
>Szucs say next?", "What will Eva say??", "Is this person a JEW or a NAZI or a
>COMMIE??" and so on and so on and so on. I could care less who's a "NAZI",
>"JEW", "COMMUNIST", "PATHALOGICAL LIAR", or what political leanings anyone has
.
>That's not why I subscribed to this list. I do know that each of you are very
>smart individuals and have lots to say, but the way you all have been carrying
>on makes you all look like WACK JOBS to the rest of us.
>
>I know the list manager would hate to "police" anyone on here. The task would
>be Herculean at best, but that may be the only viable plan, unless you all can
>just STOP THE BULLSHIT!!!!! It's just, way too, simple to label (brand) someon
e
>and have that person banished because you don't agree with him/her. Don't rely
>on labeling as your crutch, you'll bust your ass, eventually.
>
>Udv.,
>Czifra Jancsi
>john_czifra @ shi.com
>
>
+ - Re: Who brings up the subject again? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

S.Stowe wrote:

>war, daddy. The information you so helpfully posted on the Web indicates
>you graduated in the Class of 1962. So you should have been about, what,
>12 years old at the time? Some of the older hands on here who actually did
>something in 1956 can tell us whether a 12 year-old would have been old
>enough to participate in the fighting.

Don't make fun with this Sam. I saw picture from 56, showing kids (~14-16
years old) with arms. Just before I left for the US I saw a documentary
about a trial where a 17 years old kid was convinced and later executed.

Janos
+ - Re: Interact? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 04:51 PM 4/25/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Is there interact in Hungary? Or are taveller cheques still my best bet?
Personally, I have always found 'cash' to be the best and easiest to convert
in Hungary.
Aniko
>
>
>---------------------------------------------/\--------/\--------------
>Christina Magyar                             | {}    {} |   Keep
>Carleton University                          |    \/    |  Smiling
>                                             |  \____/  |   !!!!
>Email address:        \        /     :)
>------------------------------------------------{ || }-------------------
>
>
+ - Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hali,

Sam Stowe wrote:
>We really have scraped bottom when Czifra thinks he can pass himself off
>as the sweet light of reason.

My halogen works better than the penlight you've been using.

Reasoning that's light years better than yours. Hit a nerve there, eh Sam?? Are
you afraid of getting booted off under my proposal?? Are you afraid that your
marvelous, well thought out (ha, ha, ha), meticulous, informative rantings, or
in more accurate terms: piles o' shit,  will not be seen by the masses on this
list. Are you afraid that you'll be missing that well needed attention that you
lacked as child?? Don't fret, Sam, there'll be that blanket that you loved so
much, a tall glass of milk, and a plate full of Oreo cookies for you. Oh, you
didn't start it; Szucs did. Well, you should of not retaliated, then. Ignore
him, Sammy, and he'll get bored, the next time he provokes you.

>Having shoveled his share of bullshit

Mainly yours, because "bulls" like yourself who've ingested a lot of nonsense
tend to leave big piles of the stuff around for others to smell. I like a clean
yard, you know. Damn it!!! Another grass frisbee?!?!? Damn bulls, coming in and
wrecking the joint.

>on here whenever he disagreed with someone,

Correction: whenever his viewpoint was a tad bit different than most and was
pounced upon by self proclaimed "PC Police (AVO, NKVD, Stasi, Securitate,
Gestapo, Nyilaskeresztek)" of this list.

>the fumes are now apparently making him giddy.

Giddy enough to laugh another pitiful attempt to rile me up, off.

You kill me, Sam. I'm laughing hard, man. Stop it, please. Really, you're, too,
much.


Udv.,
Czifra
 "Sweet Light"
    Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com
+ - Re: Who brings up the subject again? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 02:31 PM 4/24/96 -0800, you wrote:
>
>There is one thing worse than a LIE -- and that is a STUPID LIE.


I can think of one and only one (thank goodness) which is *far* worse than
that described above.

Aniko
+ - Re: Interact? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Yes, there is Interact.  There is one in the Belvaros, right beside the
Anna Espresso.  There is another one across the Opera on Andrassy ut.
You are getting a much better exchange rate.  You can also pay with Visa
or Mastercard everywhere.  Traveller cheques can only be exchanged in
banks and they are big hassle.  Hungarians are still not used to the
"cashless society".  This was my experience exactly a year ago when I
visited Hungary. In article >,
 says...
>
>
>Is there interact in Hungary? Or are taveller cheques still my best bet?
>
>
>---------------------------------------------/\--------/\--------------
>Christina Magyar                             | {}    {} |   Keep
>Carleton University                          |    \/    |  Smiling
>                                             |  \____/  |   !!!!
>Email address:        \        /     :)
>------------------------------------------------{ ||
}-------------------

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+ - Another subject (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sam Stowe wrote:
"On another subject, are your employers at NYU and NASA Ames aware of your
rather unorthodox views on Jews? What say we get some of our list mates who
are fluent in Hungarian to make copies of your postings over the last year
or so here and on Forum? We could then ask our respective Congressmen why
our tax dollars are being spent to fund a bigot. It would make interesting
reading for the media in your area, too."

Having gone trough a debate in the Hungarian language Forum with someone who
works for the government and who wrote a lot of his e-mail during working
hours from his gov e-mail address, I disagree with Sam Stowe's proposition.

Although I obviously disagree with Mr. Szucs' ideas, I am not sure I would
want any government agency to analyze the employee's state of mind and their
speech done outside of their work. It just does not seem to be
constitutional. However, this should not limit my freedom to telling him off!

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: Horthy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, "Eva S. Balogh"
> says:
>
>        I am sorry for the tone, but you must understand that my patience is
>leaving me after a whole week of this nonsense. You got my goat when you
>talked about "simplistic this and that" and "Eva Balogh's kangaroo court."
>These remarks didn't sound terribly friendly to me. But I am still sorry
>that I offended you. In general, I try to avoid it.

Dear Eva,

I understand. I stuck my neck out rather brashly and added a few *optional
extras* ;-) unnecessarily. No hard feelings.

Thanks,

George

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Acorn..RISC OS * IBM PeeCee..PCDOS..Win-OS/2 * NW London Computer Club
 ICPUG..Commodore=64 ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!
+ - Re: Petofi Radio from Budapest on the Internet (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:31 AM 4/24/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Dear Subscribers and Readers,
>
><snip>
>        Good listening,

Thanks for the insight and the information Eva.   We'll let you know if it
worked
Aniko

>
+ - Re: Interact? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, heringer wrote:

> Yes, there is Interact.  There is one in the Belvaros, right beside the
> Anna Espresso.  There is another one across the Opera on Andrassy ut.
> You are getting a much better exchange rate.  You can also pay with Visa

For all of us who have never heard of this, please give more details.
Educate us.

TIA,  (Thanks In Advance)
Martha
+ - Re: More tounge twisters (was Re: Weores S) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Mpflerr wrote:

>           Nyaktekereszetimelfekvence  (= Nyakkendo)

I believe it should be:

            Nyaktekere'szetimellfekvenc

Thanks for bringing back fond ( O-L-D !!! ) memories!  Was this in "Sicc"
by any chance?

Martha
+ - Re: Interact? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:11 PM 4/25/96 GMT, you wrote:

Wow! - Great New Information; - of which I was not aware back in Feb and
April of '95.  Good to know.  For what it's worth my experience:

Credit cards; a hassle; Downtown Hungary or especially otherwise; most
outskirsts have never even heard of such nor are they equipped to deal with suc
h

Travellers' Cheques; an unnerving hasstle with unfavourable exchange rates -
unless of course this has drastically changed since last April

Cash preferred always; US $'s always, German Franks next; Canadian ok, but
just ok.  To give you an idea; being Canadian, I always travel to Hungary
with US $'s.

I stand by my original comment; cash being the easiest and most rewarding
(re conversion rates). Exchangeable right at the airport, as you enter
Hungary if you are really in need.  (The banks downtown usually offer better
rates).
Have Fun!  Enjoy *all* the wonders of Hungary - of which it has alot!
Good Luck
Aniko



>Yes, there is Interact.  There is one in the Belvaros, right beside the
>Anna Espresso.  There is another one across the Opera on Andrassy ut.
>You are getting a much better exchange rate.  You can also pay with Visa
>or Mastercard everywhere.  Traveller cheques can only be exchanged in
>banks and they are big hassle.  Hungarians are still not used to the
>"cashless society".  This was my experience exactly a year ago when I
>visited Hungary. In article >,
 says...
>>
>>
>>Is there interact in Hungary? Or are taveller cheques still my best bet?
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------/\--------/\--------------
>>Christina Magyar                             | {}    {} |   Keep
>>Carleton University                          |    \/    |  Smiling
>>                                             |  \____/  |   !!!!
>>Email address:        \        /     :)
>>------------------------------------------------{ ||
>}-------------------
>
>--
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+ - Re: The Oscar goes to..........hungary @ gwu. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear John,


I've been watching this for many weeks, too. All I can say is "DITTO!"

I originally signed on to this list to gather info on my family history a
few months ago and I've been sorry to see all the disrespectful chatter;
typically deleting 98% of what I have received not because of the
differring topics, but because of what you have referred to. Although I
don't cook much,I found the recipe discussions a welcome attempt by folks
to be more positve, though it seemed to be short lived. Tonight I began
sorting the last few days deluge and thankfully, your letter was the
first I opened, again, despite it's subject title not being of primary
interest to my original interest here.

I am a hospital liaison for our county mental health service (kids
portion) and often find myself insisting on people in adversarial
situations, AT THE VERY LEAST, treating each other and myself with
respect so that eveyone involved has a reasonable chance at begining to
find some solutions to their conflict. Any other clinical skills,
positions of authority, charisma, or even legal power hold very little
weight until the respect is consistently expected and displayed.

In closing, I must say I have made the aquaintance of some very
thoughtful and helpful people on this list and I hope to continue to be
associated with you all......especially if we can begin to act
more..........you guessed it, respectfully. Again, thank you for you
excellent commentary!


Sincerely,
Alan Hackett (Kiss-Duzs)
+ - Regattas of the Americas (;-) Brand new thread (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Friends:  (especially the US ones)

I am not sure if you are aware of this; if so, forgive the redundance!  If
not, I hope that you'll enjoy the change of pace.

Since March of this year, most of  world's kayak and canoe teams have been
training for the upcoming Olympics at Melbourne Florida (including an large
entourage from Hungary - yea!!! - actually, one of the largest in years).

Each country has now departed for home base for awhile to conduct their own
trials for the upcoming games.  Exception being the Canadian and the home
(US) teams. Next weekend coming, Gainsville Georgia is hosting the Regatta
of the Americas; at which time the American Olympian core team will be named
(for Kayak/Canoe).  Along with the American Team's members competing for
slots for the Olympics will also be the Canadian Team's Male kayak/canoers
shooting(whoops racing) for same.

Prior to which; coming Monday/Tuesday,  the Canadian trials are being held
to establish the Women's Kayak Team which will be representing Canada at the
Olympics.

If anyone is interested and nearby; I am absolutely positive that all of
them could use a cheer or two, three or more.  Since I cannot (but would
love to be there) give them all a few on my behalf.  Failing all this; how
about sending them *all* our very best wishes!!!  Anyone interested can
contact me for fax#'s for their perspective and or preferred  team/members.
Unfortunately, no Email's been set up so far.

Regards to all
Aniko
+ - Re: Interact? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Christina,
        I was in Budapest in December and had a terrible time finding a
bank that would cash an American Express Travelers Check...I even went to
the American Express Office in Budapest and they would not do it because
the person who I got the check from as a gift was not present with me!!!
Go figure.  Finally I talked a Bank Teller into cashing it, she believed
me that it was legal and possible.  Though risky, carry cash with you,
from my experience it is your best bet!

Good luck :)

Carolyn Daley






On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Aniko Dunford wrote:

> At 04:51 PM 4/25/96 GMT, you wrote:
> >Is there interact in Hungary? Or are taveller cheques still my best bet?
> Personally, I have always found 'cash' to be the best and easiest to convert
> in Hungary.
> Aniko
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------/\--------/\--------------
> >Christina Magyar                             | {}    {} |   Keep
> >Carleton University                          |    \/    |  Smiling
> >                                             |  \____/  |   !!!!
> >Email address:        \        /     :)
> >------------------------------------------------{ || }-------------------
> >
> >
>
+ - Weores S (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In the spirit of We=F6res S=E1ndor, I made up my own:

Pataki patika
Patika patakja.


There are also these silly little word plays (which I didn't make up),=20
such as:

Ott szemben a te=E1trummal,
Megittam a te=E1t rummal.

(Across from the theatre,
I drank my tea with rum - doesn't exactly have the same effect)

and

Azt mondj=E1k a hatalmasok
hogy akinek hat alma sok
annak hatalmas ok
hogy ne legyen hatalma sok.

(not really worth translating)


One question I have is if anyone knows of any of these 'foreign=20
language' sayings in Hungarian, such as

=DCl a pap a padon, l=E1b=E1n sz=F5r
lekopott, de m=E1r n=F5.

(U:l a pap a padon, la'ba'n szo:r
lekopott, de ma'r no:.)

which sounds like French,

or

Tavan a l=FAd =E1t=FAsz
vissza =FAsz meg =E1t=FAsz.

(Tavan a lu'd a'tu'sz,
vissza u'sz meg a'tu'sz.)

Which sounds like latin.


_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ =20


James D. Doepp
Department of Economic Theory
University of Miskolc (Hungary)




  By meanes whereof, they became lazie and slothfull in their dayly =20
endevours, even like to our Citizens; not minding or medling with =20
their wonted affaires: but, as a waiting for death every houre, =20
imployed all their paines, not in caring any way for themselves, their =20
cattle, or gathering the fruits of the earth, or any of their =20
accustomed labours; but rather wasted and consumed, even such as =20
were for their instant sustenance.

Boccaccio, _The Decameron_


_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ =1A

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