Kristaps Licis > wrote:

>Well, erection is something that will never threaten Lenin again and maybe nev
er did...

>	For those speaking Russian:

>Erektsija Leninu bolshe ne grozit, mozhet bit  i nikogda ni grozila! 

>Regards,
>Kristaps

I don't know... He looks pretty stiff in that last picture I saw of
him in that glass box.

Oh god, here I go extending this already inane thread just a little
further.   Chalk it up to Spring fever...

Kevin Jacques
http://www.mindspring.com/~sunhawk

Ahh... warm afternoons, sunlight flickering through Fall leaves and the
basso profundo roar of a Ducati.

The world is not enough - Ian Fleming

"Mr. Wizard" > wrote:



>It is amazing how many stupid Americans pretentiously ammounce that they know
>everything about Communism.  In reality, the poor warped souls know only what
>the Big Brother passed down.

It  could be argued that the old Soviet Union was not a communist
state.  It was actually a capitalist state, just not in the
traditional sense of the word.  I would be happy to explian MY view
(the one that draws me to the above conclusion) if anyone would like
me to do so.

Chris

Hello Everyone,

It is a lovely spring night, my window is open and I feel the gentle
breeze skipping through my room. I am listening to my favorite radio
station in the background and click on my computer to read the articles on
soc.culture.magyar ........... and than.............
I scream........where am I ?
It is a nightmare - - - - -

Over and over and over and over -
"Retrieving message 'Re: THE SOVIET UNION SHALL RISE AGAIN!'... 
"Retrieving message 'Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help
translation..."  

I am "seasick"
"Retrieving message 'TIM ABRAHAM: A fundamentalist Muslim ...FINDS THE
TRUTH..."

Please, please tell me it is only a bad dream.

Excuse me/bocsanat for my "outburst" .

mep

> .........stuff deleted.....................................
> anti-Communist buildup. The only way that this could happen is if the
> American people are extremely stupid and re-elect Bill "Bubba" Clinton as
> our Commander-in-Chief. Then all bets are off..
> Tom


Uh.  Wasn't it the American people who elected a senile third rate actor
for Prez of the USA.  Between naps at the oval office he would recount
stories of his days as a bomber pilot in WWII being unable to distinguish
his past movie roles from his past life.   I would not count on
the good sense of the American electorate to keep us out of trouble!

                                  Adam Whiteson

On 11 May 96 00:57:13 +0200  (Charles M. Vamossy)
wrote:

>Mr. Frajkor, I appreciate your thoughtful and thought-provoking reply
>and I understand your point.  Sometimes people are, to misquote Winston
>Churchill, separated by common words.

Mr. Vamossy, your indulgence and moderation are honouring you. As you 
show in your text below, you have identified Mr. Frajkor's game:

>Still, I think you'll agree that it is rather unusual to wrangle about
>paragraphs and interpretations of international treaties AFTER they
>have been negotiated.  If the Slovak government had a different
>interpretation to EU Recommendation 1201 than Hungary, the parties
>should have resolved that during the negotiation phase and include in
>the treaty language both parties agree with.

Very diplomatically said, indeed.


>Apparently the problems of different interpretations were well known
>from the start.  Nevertheless, after protracted talks, boths sides
>declared themselves satisfied with their work.  Then as I recall, the
>Slovak Government surprisingly tried, at the signing ceremony in Paris,
>to first include and when that was rejected, attach a paragraph to the
>treaty  -- a rather unusual procedure, to say the least.  The French
>Government, who was administering the ceremony, rejected the Slovak
>request, correctly suggesting that if they did not agree with the
>Treaty, they should not sign it but go back and re-negotiate.  Finally,
>the Treaty was signed, but the Slovak Government "paper clipped" their
>paragraph onto their copy.

I think this is a good resume of basic facts. I have chosen to delete 
the following comments since the original article is available, but 
would like to add the following. Obviously you got confused by the
analogies that might seem to exist between the Slovak model and the
democracies.

In reality, this is not a treaty between the Slovak government and
the Hungarian government. From the Slovak side, it's only one of 
these Meciar's one-man's-shows because of two reasons:

1. The puppet character of the Meciar III cabinet. 
Already under Meciar II, the ministres had no competences and couldn't 
decide anything without a prior Meciar's approval. It lead to some 
frictions then. The new government has been composed of people with no 
personality and no authority conflict potential. The functioning is 
smooth ya, ya, ya.

2. No internal-politic logics behind the treaty. Conflict or 
reconciliation are seeminly two possibilities, in reality the are
representing, in a dialectic harmony of opposites, the way of 
functioning
of the Slovakian political scene. To express it in more clear terms, 
for Meciar, the domestic political situation is a fully controllable 
process and there is no need for any justification of any of his steps
aimed at dismantling the democracy. What he needed was a propaganda 
theatre destined to the credule Western politicians' eyes. He succeeded.

The Free World has then postponed further warnings regarding the
unpleasant evolution toward a dictature, cutting every possible 
President's powers, building an uncontrolled State property distribution 
system, Slovak Matrix and Slovak Services as tools of ideological and
political oppression. Meciar has won a six months delay that made his
self-confidence to grow until the President's son kidnapping and
the next warning wave of demarches in September.

I believe that the democratic Moravcik government, or just any 
democratic
government, as well as any technocratic government would not sign that 
treaty. For Slovakia, it's a bad treaty exactly because of the EC 1201 
Recommendation. It opens an interpretation dispute over the minority 
rights. I suspect this is exactly what Meciar wanted: to sign something
spectacular that will not be possible to enforce and respect.

I have to add that personally, I don't believe in collective rights. 
It's not the collective rights that are the pilliers of the democracy.
Collective rights for Magyar minority, if granted, would not contribute
to increased social stability, as they would give more rights to a 
group of citizen, distinction made on ethnic principles. I think that
in the contrary, it's the individual rights that should be granted.

Unfortunately, in reality, the individual rights that would lead to the
development of a civil society, were stripped down under the shadow
of the Hungarian Treaty umbrella. Regions have been liquidated, local 
autonomy questions buried, municipalities placed under tutelle of the
State and their revenues from direct taxes confiscated, in order these
to be thrown in the black hole of the State budget and redistributed 
from there. According to criterions that follow a different logic than
a democratic one.


>> Can somebody then explain how is it that Hungary -- and not Slovakia --
>> that is delaying ratification?
>> Charles Vamossy
>
>      I would guess that what the Slovak government means is that
>Hungary is refusing to put in writing its interpretation of the
>article, and that until it does, either side can argue that there has
>been no meeting of the minds.
>    Jan George Frajkor                      _!_

Not a surprise to find that petty spin-doctored explanation. Let's be
misericordial, it's said to be a "guess", no local expertise required. 

In reality, it's one of the el-cheapo propagandist tricks as to blame 
the other side for everything. So, if Meciar appears in the top ten list
of the enemies of the freedom of the press, it's the opposition and the 
President who are guilty. If the EU and NATO do not consider Slovakia as
a serious membership candidate, it's the fault of the evil Cechuni. 

The ratification of the Hungarian treaty has been delayed because of 
some obscure domestic political considerations. First, once the 
spectacle of the ratification has been a success, there was no need
doing so, until a new political capital can be gained for Meciar.
"I did pass it", can he say now. 

The Treaty was a target of attacks by the extreme Slovak National Party, 
but Meciar could have passed it since a while thanks to support of the 
opposition deputies in the Parliament. But then, this would create a 
precedens where a normal democratic manners would be imported to the 
unisono Slovak parliament, which would be a dangerous psychological 
moment. The perfectly drawn line separating the coalition and the 
opposition would be broken and other "thought purity imperfections"
might arise. 

So, Meciar preferred bargaining with the extreme Slovak Party and to 
exchange the Treaty for a promise of the Language Law, Law on the 
Protection of the Republics, many "privatisations", and possibly
the death penalty.

Last week, OMRI and Slovak media reported that the Slovak Foreign
Ministry said on 9 May the Treaty will be ratified in its original
form with no unilateral additions. This shows again that for a 
dictature, international attention is more important than the matter
itself. At least it will give us a treaty that's now, given the
worrysome context, more than needed.

Roman Kanala

In article >, Mr R O Davis 
> says:
>
[snip]
>It is very difficult to get hold of the books where I live in the UK but
>I know that books suitable for me are available in Hungary if only I
>knew how I could get hold of them.
[snip]
>Does anyone know a source of books from their own experience or is there 
>anyone in Hungary reading this who might be prepared to buy books there for
>me in exchange for something they want here or simply for the cash.

Do you know about the Hungarian Book Co at Victoria Park, East London?
I don't have their exact details off-hand, but they should be in the
phone book.

Hope this helps,

George
--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Chess books? Ask for my list! ** Acorn..RISC OS * ICPUG..Commodore=64!

Mr. Wizard wrote:
> 
> Kirill Shcheglov wrote:
> 
> >         Napisano Naumom Korzhavinym posle togo kak on guliaia natknulsia
> > na demonstratsiiu Ital'ianskoi kom-partii v Rime (gde-to v kontse
> > semidesiatyh):
> >
> >         I zdes', hot' beisia, hot' metaisia,
> >         I serp i molot, kak v Moskve;
> >         I eto mne serpom po yaitsam,
> >         I molotom po golove.
> >
> 
> Detskie stishki.  Pomnu shto-to pohozhee kogda mne bilo gteto 9-10 let.

	Nu dyk!  starye i borodatye.  Vot tam bylo pro serp i molot
vot i vspomnilis'...

						k.s.

> Da, umnii ti paren', okazivaeitsa'.

Da uzh poumnei tebia budu.
(Dostoevskogo ty muzhik zabyl)
> 
> Nu poka, durachok.
> 
> --
> xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><>
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdb
> [{}][{}][{}][{}][{}][{}][{
> |=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> (O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O
> #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
> #+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+
> _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
> `'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
> !|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|
> $S$S$$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$
> ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
> ._._._._._._._._._._._._._

Mr Bland Gland wrote:
>Nah, Wally's ego is just too big. 

I like it big.

>He's a "poet", you see.

That's write.

>But he's also a sexist pig. 

And you're stupid prick!

>A snoid.

And you're a void a.k.a. vacuous, Ko-Vacuous, Ko-Vacuass

>He thinks because he uses vulgar words he's cool, big man on campus.

He fears no words. 

>I do hope the lobotomy will help him get his well deserved personality
>exchange.

I like his perversonality.
I don't like your persanality!

> Gaborka
Gaborkaka

Hermes1  > wrote:
|Poor little Gaborka, aren't we a tad PC (that is not Piece of Crap
|just yet, but only Politicaly Corrrect)?

>Nah.
Yep he is.

|As far as "sexist", I still have some remote hope that you are sexist
|too, unles the dikes on campus managed to brain wash you to the extent of
|a de facto castration. No wonder you sound so squeeky, ya whimp !

>OK. I'll use Wally's approach to woman: You dried up dumb cunt, gimme some
>food! Then fuck off!

He said that Anna Smith was a "dried up dumb cunt", not women in general.
I said that YOU are a stupid prick, not men in general. 

|Please stop being such a whimpy, castrato_PC_snoid, you bring shame to the
|whole of Eastern Europe!

>So? AFAIK, Hungary is in Central Europe...why should I care about Eastern
>Europe?

Because as far as the advanced West is concerned, the squeeky-stink shame of
YOUR posts emits from the general direction of the East.

Hermes1  > wrote:
>
>Joe, my friend, once you get there you'll be surprised to find out
>that there is a street named Bishop Tokes, down, close to the bottom
>of hell. No doubt as recognition for the many services he rendered for
>the Evil One !

How about listing those "services"?  Heck, while all of the East Bloc
was already in the post-communist phase, everybody was wondering when,
if ever, will Romanians hop on the train.  Finally, you needed a
Hungarian pastor to get you kick-started.  Your post only confirms what
is obvius that you cannot forgive him for that.

Joe

To all mothers in our group - -

Hope you have a very nice Mother's Day!

mep

Oh dear. The Web is fully invaded by people missing the point of
religion again.

Look folks, why do you have religion? Is it because a great big super
ebtity came down out of the clouds and said "Worship me or I'll stomp
you" or even "Worship me, casue I love you and created you".

No. You have religion because people you like and trust believe that
way. And hey, that's cool, except for when you believe you have the
right to hurt anyone else.

And it's not about proving that you have the closer line to "God" or
the Gods or Bob or Eris. It's about fellowship and being not
miserable. 

As to the life after death stuff, if you are really worried, believe
what you want, but remember, most of those folks wanted you to follow
their lead. Don't sit down and worship them just on the holy day, do
your best to act like them all the time. This pretty much means no
violence, no lies, no hurting other folks. 

Hey Truthnet folks, want my vote? Make sure you include a section on
nice things that religious organizations have done, along with nasty
things they have done. Everything from the Crusades to Mother Teresa,
from excecutions of dissenting opinions to guarding housing projects.

Make sure you present the *whole* truth, and nothing but the truth.

-- 
-####------------> Nipple!, Is qui iacit in hamas marsupiales.  | Melior
 ####  Rev. Irreverend Hacksaw, Omnibenevalent Polyparrot (ULC) | amans
 ####     http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/~hacksaw/hacksaw.html      |  per
 #### <-- Tartan of the ScotchBrite Masons (Are you two of us?) | chemia

Please do not continue this thread in irrelevant newsgroups.

Antonio, have you been Soviet or at least have lived in the USSR no less than
half a year?

If you have not, then who the fuck gave you the right to write such 
psychic message?

If you have, then just let me tell you that you are bolotnyi topistyi 
perdastyi katihastyi }|{opistyi mudak-komunist.  Ty chto, hochesh nashu 
Russ' prodat' da propit' kak tvoi sranye communisty, suka drannaya?  

Eto my russkie tebe pishem, a ne kakie-nibud' ubluzhie amerikancy.

Ty ponyal, padla?

Ostavaisya s privetom, gandon nezashtopannyi.

Can anyone help me acquire books in the Hungarian language. 
Is there a bookstore in Hungary which one can deal with by post? 

I would like to buy books in Hungarian to help me to learn the language.

It is very difficult to get hold of the books where I live in the UK but
I know that books suitable for me are available in Hungary if only I
knew how I could get hold of them.

I know what I want from experience of learning other languages..

Does anyone know a source of books from their own experience or is there 
anyone in Hungary reading this who might be prepared to buy books there for
me in exchange for something they want here or simply for the cash.

Any answers will be gratefully received. 

I always read this newsgroup but if you prefer to e-mail me that's fine.

Rodger Davis


--

On 12 May 1996  wrote:

> >of hell. No doubt as recognition for the many services he rendered for
> >the Evil One !
> How about listing those "services"?  Heck, while all of the East Bloc
> was already in the post-communist phase, everybody was wondering when,
> if ever, will Romanians hop on the train.  Finally, you needed a
> Hungarian pastor to get you kick-started.  Your post only confirms what
> is obvius that you cannot forgive him for that.

Typical Panonescu bull swinging, playing possum with the facts.
You can't feign ignorance, you are too educated and interested in
Transylvanian politics to point fingers in a lame acusation that you
know damned well in invalid ! 
It is not what he did in the Timisoara events that I hold against him,
and you know that you dishonest prick, but what he did afterwards.

Squandering any good will he has accumulated, with the enthusiasm of a
prodigal son gone politico, he has become one of the pillars of 
divisivness, controversy and separatism.  He has brought Romania one small
step closer to a possible Yugoslav scenario. Not that Romania is anywhere
close to that, but even the pushers of small steps deserve to be squashed
like the maggots they are. Those willing to put their fellow human beings
through the social misery and intercine frictions that Tokes's actions
have already brought upon western Romania deserve no mercy and they will
certainly rot in hell.  All this for personal political power and
agrandizement, an ego trip unworthy of a man of cloth. He is certainly one
of the Devils dearest.

m. cristian

csource > wrote:

>Kristaps Licis wrote:
>> 
>> Antonio wrote:
>> > LENIN WILL BE RE-ERECTED EVERYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE GREAT DOMAIN OF THE NEW
>> 
>> Well, erection is something that will never threaten Lenin again and maybe n
ever did...
>> 
>>         For those speaking Russian:
>> 
>> Erektsija Leninu bolshe ne grozit, mozhet bit  i nikogda ni grozila!
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Kristaps

Hey, now...kak te grozhit, kak on hozhit.

****
Dammit Jeb, I'm as Amish as the next guy, but if we don't take
out that sub, there won't be a Pennsylvania to go home TO!
***
Rev. Mutha Tarla Star ://www.ionet.net/~bmyers/homepage.html

Escuse me, BUT, what the hell does this have to do with alt.pagan?  Stop 
posting this nonsense to groups who don't care about this ignorant 
bullshit!

sincerely (long live democracy)

mziuri :)


Antonio wrote:
> 
> FRIENDS AND COMRADES, THIS IS AN OPEN LETTER.  A SMART-ASS CRETIN KNOWN AS
> 'GEORGE HERBERT' HAS FLIPPANTLY INSTRUCTED THE USERS OF THE USENET NOT TO
> RESPOND TO POSTS LAUDING THE EFFORTS OF COMMUNISTS IN RUSSIA TO FORM A NEW
> SOVIET UNION WHICH SHALL CRUSH ALL VERMIN LIKE HIM.
> 
> MY FRIENDS, THE PROGRESSIVE FORCES OF SOCIALISM WILL NOT TAKE THIS LIGHTLY.
> ONCE WE ARE IN POWER, THE ENTIRE 'NET' WILL BE USED ONLY FOR REVOLUTIONARY
> PURPOSES.  WE ARE RESERVING A CELL IN THE NEW GULAG FOR THE LIKES OF ANTI-
> SOVIET HOOLIGANS LIKE MR. HERBERT.   MR. GEORGE HERBERT, BE WARNED.
> 
> LONG LIVE THE STRUGGLE OF THE PROGRESSIVE FORCES OF SOCIALISM!
> 
> Antonio "I am a Stalinist, but I'm a Nice Guy" Gomez Muzcreidt

JoseDanielClarke wrote:
: 
: Communism hasn't failed. STALINISM failed. Communism is a democratic rule of 
the 
: proletariat. To say that the USSR was communist is a lie.  Cuba, North Korea,
 nor 
: China are communist either. They are all Stalinist societies, with 1 person t
hat says
: what should be done. Does that sounds like Marx's teachings? I don't think so
. 

How How How Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeerry X-mas

-- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Oliver De Meyere				Hookon vzw
I have a dream...                          	to provide the net to all.
		   
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

Alexander Barmouta wrote:

> Eto my russkie tebe pishem, a ne kakie-nibud' ubluzhie amerikancy.
> 

I ti okazivaetsa' Russki? Da ti prosto busnesman nedodrannii.  Uezhai skoree
v tvou lubimuu Ameriku.  Rossie takie tipi ne nuzhni. 

-- 
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
<><><><><><><><><><><><><>
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdb
[{}][{}][{}][{}][{}][{}][{
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|
$S$S$$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
.._._._._._._._._._._._._._

Roman Kanala  > wrote:
>
>I have to add that personally, I don't believe in collective rights. 
>It's not the collective rights that are the pilliers of the democracy.
>Collective rights for Magyar minority, if granted, would not contribute
>to increased social stability, as they would give more rights to a 
>group of citizen, distinction made on ethnic principles. I think that
>in the contrary, it's the individual rights that should be granted.

Ah, there is a limit even to Roman's legendary good will and
tolerance!  Why, what do you think is wrong with the Tyrolean solution
between Italy and Austria?

Joe

84 m2, 2-bedroom condo overlooking the Buda Hills in a beautiful, 
small apartment house of Budapest'’s exclusive Rozsadomb disrict
(Nagybanyai Street) is for immediate sale. It features telephone, 
garage, hardwood floor and gas central heating. Easy access to the
city: downtown is just a short, convenient 15-minute ride by public 
transportation. If you are interested, please send an E-mail to 
.

In article >,
Brigitta Bali > wrote:
>Mr Bland Gland wrote:

Listen Honey-Bunny, do you even know what those words mean? For weeks I've been
trying to figure out why you use a compliment when you seem to be trying
to insult me. Heck, I almost did what I never do: go to the library and look it
up in a dictionary. But then, why? I'm never wrong, and certainly not in this 
case. AFAIK, bland is "easygoing, friendly". To look up the correct Hungarian 
word for it, I checked in the Orszagh Angol-Magyar Szotar, and, of course I 
found out it meant "ja'mbor, nya'jas". Although I'm not a doctor, as you're not
a poet, I'm sure that a gland is a vital organ. So you're saying I'm Mr. 
Friendly Vital Organ? Mmmmmm...I like that. Maybe you and your Stale Male 
husband should first learn a language to be effective in communication.

Your Friendly Vital Organ. I do, I like it!

MY SISTER HAS INSISTED THAT I MAKE THESE IMAGES AVAILABLE PUBLICALLY.
SHE FEELS THAT THEY WILL INSTIL THE PROPER REVOLUTIONARY VIGOR IN THE
MEN OF AMERICA.  I HAVE TO AGREE!!!!

FREE!  YES, FREE!  ONLY CAPITALISTS CHARGE FOR THESE SERVICES!

HOW TO ORDER:
SEND ME EMAIL:


IN YOUR SUBJECT LINE, PUT THE FOLLOWING:
	SEND IMAGE 
AND THEN AN IMAGE NUMBER, LIKE
	SEND IMAGE 11   

USE AN IMAGE NUMBER FROM THE FOLLOWING LIST:
10	LINDA FULLY CLOTHED, READING FROM DAS KAPITAL AT RECENT MEETING
11	LINDA PRIVATELY TUTORING UNIVERSITY STUDENTS IN AUSTIN TX *NUDE*
12	STUDENTS TUTORING LINDA BACK
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14	LINDA AND YVONNE, OUR CELL LEADER, DEMO REVOLUTIONARY TECHNIQUES
15	UP CLOSE OF 14
16	RAHUL, OUR PHOTOGRAPHER GETS INTO THE ACT
17	SO DO I!!!!
18	LINDA READING FROM MAO'S LITTLE RED BOOK AT TRUCK STOP
19	LINDA AND THREE TRUCKERS
20	LINDA AND *FOUR* TRUCKERS
21	LINDA AND **FIVE** TRUCKERS, ONE IS READING MAO'S BOOK
22	OUR FIFTH ANNUAL LENIN DAY ORGY

EMAIL NOW!  DECADENT AMERICANS MAY BAN THIS USE OF INTERNET SOON!

Mark Cristian aka Hermes1 > wrote:
$$of hell. No doubt as recognition for the many services he rendered for
$$the Evil One !

Joe Pannonescu wrote:
> How about listing those "services"?  Heck, while all of the East Bloc
> was already in the post-communist phase, everybody was wondering when,
> if ever, will Romanians hop on the train.  Finally, you needed a
> Hungarian pastor to get you kick-started.  Your post only confirms what
> is obvius that you cannot forgive him for that.

Mark Cristian replied:
$ It is not what he did in the Timisoara events that I hold against him,
$ and you know that you dishonest prick, but what he did afterwards.

A while back, Mark Cristian was proud to boast that one of his good friends
was the former head of the Romanian Export Bank. (This is the bank that
served Ceausescu's money policies, including the hundreds of millions
salted away in secret foreign accounts, the money taken away from the
people of Romania). This banker friend has close ties with former General
Victor Stanculescu, sufficient that they are collaborating with the British
Bali group to operate their own banking system in Romania.

In an article I wrote in 1991 for a Canadian readership is the following
segment pertaining to Stanculescu:

|o     The people's revolution against Ceausescu began Dec. 16/89 in o|
|o Timisoara where thousands stood to defend Rev. Laszlo Tokes       o|
|o against eviction. Emboldened by their own solidarity the          o|
|o defenders later that night sacked local Communist Party offices.  o|
|o The police and army bashed heads but did not shoot.               o|
|o     At a meeting with Ceausescu the following morning in          o|
|o Bucharest, Defence Minister, Vasile Milea, admitted that          o|
|o ammunition had not been distributed to the soldiers. Threatening  o|
|o Milea with dismissal, Ceausescu turned to General Ion Coman,      o|
|o Secretary to the Central Committee for Military and Security      o|
|o Affairs, and gave the order to shoot unarmed civilians. It was    o|
|o 2 p.m. Accompanying Coman on the one-hour flight to Timisoara was o|
|o Stanculescu and Lt-General Mihai Chitsac, the man in charge of    o|
|o Romania's chemical weapons.                                       o|
|o     Shortly after the plane landed, army troops used tear gas and o|
|o water cannon; an hour later, around 6 p.m. the army began         o|
|o shooting civilians -- this was the massacre heard round the world.o|
|o While Ceausescu hob-nobbed in Iran for the next three days,       o|
|o Stanculescu dutifuly remained in Timisoara mopping up.            o|
|o     Stanculescu arrived in Bucharest early Friday morning         o|
|o (Dec 21) when he was summoned by an angry Ceausescu. Stanculescu  o|
|o vainly begged off, complaining that his broken ankle was in a     o|
|o fresh cast. He arrived in time to see his immediate superior,     o|
|o Vasile Milea, being escorted to his "suicide." Stanculescu was    o|
|o still standing with Ceausescu. The army began shooting civilians  o|
|o in Cluj, in Sibiu, and continued in Timisoara.                    o|

Mark Cristian continues:
$ Squandering any good will he has accumulated, with the enthusiasm of a
$ rodigal son gone politico, he has become one of the pillars of 
$ divisivness, controversy and separatism.  He has brought Romania one
$ small step closer to a possible Yugoslav scenario. Not that Romania is
$ anywhere close to that, but even the pushers of small steps deserve to
$ be squashed like the maggots they are. Those willing to put their fellow
$ human beings through the social misery and intercine frictions that
$ Tokes's actions have already brought upon western Romania deserve no
$ mercy and they will certainly rot in hell.  All this for personal
$ political power and agrandizement, an ego trip unworthy of a man of
$ cloth. He is certainly one of the Devils dearest. 

Mark Cristian is not one to talk. He has defended Romania's former Defence
Minister Victor Stanculescu like the dutiful head butler for Victor that he
is. This is the same Defence Minister, who, while the subjects of Romania
were still hungry, reeling from the social misery imposed by Czarsescu and
the aftermath of a pseudo-revolution, was able to extort hundreds of
millions from government coffers to build up the military and the
Securitate-clone -- RIS.

And what has happened to this glorious Defence Minister since the days of
Timisoara? Why, he has become an international gun-runner par excellance,
enjoying the profits to the hilt, able to launder his money via the bank
set-up constructed by Mark Cristian's "good friend."

These are the maggots that need to be squashed. These are the maggots who
posture with threats if Hungary is more competent to join to NATO first
before Romania. (I personally oppose any expansion of NATO). This is one of
the causes of social misery and intercine friction in Romania.

Tokes has no military. Tokes has no Serviciul Paza si Protocol at his
disposal. Tokes has no Inspectoratul General al Politiei at his disposal.
Tokes haas no Public Guardians at his disposal. Tokes has only the power of
democratic tools at his disposal -- his ability to speak freely and to
pursuade. It is a similar power that Quebec Premier Lucian Bouchard has.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

In > (TRUTHNET) wri
tes: 

>
>
>
>                    Risk on the Journey
>               (a speech given June 26, 1995)
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen:
>
>Today I consider myself privileged and honored to stand 
>before you and share about my journey with Christ in Egypt. 
>I have to admit, first and foremost, that I am grateful to
>God's saints in the WMU for their labor of love to get the 
>Gospel proclaimed to Muslims, In fact, I am indebted to 
>each member of the WMU, exactly as the apostle Paul felt 
>when he said in Romans 1:14, "I am a debtor both to Greeks 
>and to barbarians, both to wise and to unwise."
>
>It was a young man from Pennsylvania who shared Christ 
>with me while I tried to convert him into Islam. Right after 
>my conversion I was baptized secretly in Cairo. Filled with 
>the joy of salvation I could not hide or deny Christ anymore. 
>Therefore, when my childhood friend asked me if Christ was 
>crucified, I answered, "Yes!" and explained why. He prayed 
>with me, for the first time, to receive Christ. 
>He was shaking vehemently and perspiring profusely every 
>time he prayed with me. He could see how mighty the name of
>our Lord Jesus was. My former leaders in the Islamic fanatical 
>group, desiring to know who the spearhead was, threatened to 
>kill him if he would not tell them everything about my
>evangelism. Sadly, he betrayed me and I was beaten up in front 
>of the mosque where I had formerly preached Islam zealously. 
>In their sight I was a blasphemous infidel who deserved
>to be killed unless I would recant. They regarded my conversion 
>as the most horrendous form of desecrating Islam and the Quran. 
>
>Since my secret conversion was now made to the  public and 
>Muslims plotted to kill me, I had to flee. I was hunted by 
>Muslims from my village in the Delta, to Ismalia until I 
>arrived in Cairo where my Christian friends lived. 
>Yet Christians were not willing to shelter me and I had to go 
>back to the village, seeking refuge in His protective hands. 
>I came back from Cairo and found an angry mob of Muslims filling 
>up our house. My mother was wearing the garment of mourning, 
>dressed in black as is the custom in Egypt. Muslim women yelled 
>at me, "Your mother doesn't deserve all this from you. Why cause 
>her all this grief7" Another woman lamented, "Poor mother! 
>Her son left her for the Christian infidels. If I were her, 
>I would kill my son for running after the infidels like a dog." 
>I received a letter from a friend in Jordan who reported that 
>my father was walking down the streets in Jordan weeping bitterly 
>as Muslim laborers there reproached him severely. He stayed sick 
>in bed for a month because of this until he and I talked on the 
>phone.
>
>It is absolutely unforgettable that outraged Muslims broke into 
>our house barbarically. My mother knelt down at the feet of our 
>neighbor "Sayed" begging him to spare my life and kill her instead. 
>In such indescribable agony, my mother disowned and disinherited me 
>before all people in my village. I love my mother more dearly than 
>any person in this world, but no human power, regardless of how 
>gigantic it is, can separate me from the love of Christ. I will 
>always live for Jesus.
>
>For the first time in my life, my Bible, all my Christian books, 
>and music tapes were confiscated and burnt. I decided to flee from 
>the Delta region to Cairo. Even though the police were tracking me 
>down, the Lord blinded their eyes and protected me. In Cairo, I was
>hiding at Mounir's, an Egyptian Baptist friend who was comforting 
>me all the time. I broke down when he read, 
>
>  "So they departed from the presence of the council, 
>   rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame 
>   for His name" (Acts 5:41). 
>
>I am grateful to God for providing this Baptist friend who discipled 
>me, teaching me to live a victorious life affluent in worship and 
>thanksgiving. He gave me a pocket Arabic New Testament and told me 
>frankly that his parents were afraid that if they continued to hide 
>me they would be in jail forever. I had nowhere to go. So, upon the 
>advice of my secret pastor, I went back to the village, hiding the 
>Arabic New Testament in my socks, praying that it would not fall. 
>I was eventually arrested and released repeatedly. I learned what 
>it means to have God as my only Hiding Place. In prison, my Savior
>knows I have come to experience true peace. I was not shaken 
>because I saw Christ in prison, not myself. I sang songs of joy in 
>the midst of tears, anticipating the shining Morning Star to come 
>and deliver me. I decided to hide the Bible in a place where the 
>police cannot confiscate it---in my heart by memorizing it. 
>I have since made it a habit to sleep with my Bible by my side. 
>Five years later, I managed to flee Muslims' attempt to kill me just 
>to find that there are some professing Christians in America who 
>attack the inerrancy of the Bible for which I was willing to die. 
>What a scandalous thing!
>
>When I went to give my mother a Mother's Day gift, she asked me 
>rhetorically, "Mother's Day gift?" I answered, "Yes" every time she 
>repeated the question. She looked at me with such crushing grief and 
>said, "My son, whom I waited 15 years to have and finally was born 
>is now dead. I disown you till the day of judgment, Ibrahim." 
>I cried but Christ touched my heart and said, "I am your family now! 
>I am your father, brother, mother, sister, friend, and everything to 
>you, Timothy, now." I cannot forget those days when my mother would 
>call the police to arrest me. She even went to a witch to put a 
>curse on me and bring me back to the fold of Islam. The witch said, 
>"Your son is following a path which he will never forsake and he
>will be victorious all his life as long as he walks in it." 
>These words, from the mouth of a
>witch, brought my younger brother to know Christ. The testimony of 
>demons about our victorious Lord renders skepticism and unbelief 
>absurd.
>
>I decided to move to Cairo which was not any safer. The last time 
>the police had arrested me they said, "According to us, you are an 
>infidel who has committed high treason. Next time we arrest you, 
>it will be capital punishment." To make it worse, the "Christian" 
>landlord told me he could not shelter a fugitive criminal anymore. 
>I was not welcome in my own country anymore. Nevertheless, the Lord 
>intervened, and a Palestinian evangelist, Anis Sharrosh, introduced 
>me to Dr. Paige Patterson. At first, I was denied the visa, but 
>Dr. Patterson did not give up. Finally, I was granted an entry visa, 
>and I was supernaturally able to leave Egypt.
>
>If it had not been for Dr. Patterson, I would have been history 
>today. I was scheduled to be executed, and God saw that He had 
>more work for me to do. So, he used Dr. Patterson in supernaturally 
>rescuing my life. I was scared of coming to the seminary when I was 
>in Egypt because I did not want to begin in the Spirit and be made 
>perfect by the flesh. My heart was finally reassured when I saw the 
>burning embers of revival being kindled. My own family disowned me,
>but Dr. Patterson has become my father and Dr. Mrs. Patterson my 
>mother. I am grateful to God for my new family. Please pray for our 
>seminary, my home now. 
>
>My Muslim friends, please feel free to contact me at this address:
>
>Timothy Abraham
>SEBTS Box 1889
>Wake Forest, NC 27587
>U.S.A.
>or send me email at  
>with "For Timothy Abraham" in the subject header.
>
>
>
>

If your reserving rooms in the Gulog for anti-soviet vermin , please put 
me down with Mr. Herbert . Somehow I have a hard time believing your for 
real . No one can be that ignorant .

In article >, Mpflerr > wrote:
>
>Please, please tell me it is only a bad dream.

Yes, it is.  Go back to sleep, MEP!

Joe

Antonio wrote:
> 
> MY SISTER HAS INSISTED THAT I MAKE THESE IMAGES AVAILABLE PUBLICALLY.
> SHE FEELS THAT THEY WILL INSTIL THE PROPER REVOLUTIONARY VIGOR IN THE
> MEN OF AMERICA.  I HAVE TO AGREE!!!!
> 
> FREE!  YES, FREE!  ONLY CAPITALISTS CHARGE FOR THESE SERVICES!
> 
> HOW TO ORDER:
> SEND ME EMAIL:
> 
> 
> IN YOUR SUBJECT LINE, PUT THE FOLLOWING:
>         SEND IMAGE
> AND THEN AN IMAGE NUMBER, LIKE
>

Antinio, do you ever get tired of this BULLSHIT????

-- 
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
<><><><><><><><><><><><><>
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdb
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|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O)(O
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|
$S$S$$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
.._._._._._._._._._._._._._

#In article >,  
#says...

#>I fail to understand the legal process used in Slovakia.  I all
#>civilized countries a contract is a contract, both parties agreeing to
#>the same exact words, each party ratifying the same exact contract.  
#>
#>Treaties are first negotiated by the respective governments. When the
#>exact words after protracted negotiations are finally agreed to, the
#>treaty is signed by a senior member of each government, accepted (or
#>rejected -- never changed) by the Legislative body and finally publicly
#>exchaged by the Heads of State.
#>

	a good question.   do you remember the gabcikovo treaty?
	of course, you are talking about civilised countries, so 
	the abrogation of the treaty on the hungarian part would
	thus be explicable...

Please do not continue this thread in irrelevant newsgroups.



alt.activism, alt.atheism, alt.chess.ics, alt.current.events-russia,
alt.cyberspace, alt.discordia, alt.fan.james-bond, alt.fan.shostakovich,
alt.fan.u2, alt.folklore.science, alt.kill.the.whales, alt.messianic,
alt.military.cadet, alt.mindcontrol, alt.music.progressive,
alt.news-media, alt.pagan, alt.politics.economics,
alt.politics.europe.misc, alt.politics.india.communist,
alt.prophecies.nostradamus, alt.punk, alt.radio.pirate, alt.revisionism,
alt.slack, alt.society.civil.liberty, alt.society.revolution,
alt.startrek.klingon, alt.technology.obsolete, alt.whine,
alt.history.what-if, soc.history.what-if, soc.culture.europe,
soc.culture.germany, soc.culture.belgium, soc.culture.french,
soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.russian, soc.culture.baltics,
soc.culture.ukraine, soc.culture.yugoslavia, soc.culture.croatia,
soc.culture.magyar, talk.bizarre



Sherwin

"Mr. Wizard" > wrote:
>Jeff EVans wrote:
>
>>     The USSR, history's most genocidal, corrupt, tyrannical, exploitive
>> regime.  The USSR was a prison state, through and through, terrorizing
>> citizens into submission.  The USSR chained its own, and was strangled by
>> those chains binding its own people.
>> 
>
>Ahh...  How interesting..   I am a citizen of the former USSR, but smoehow
>your "facts" above just simply never registered.
>
>I never really knew before how truly evil my homeland is.  Only now, after
>your great post, do I realize that the communists (and Russians in general)
>need to be wiped off the face of the world.
>
>I think the world has seen enough of hatred, bigotry, and genocide. 
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  You got that one right. It's seen far too much.

Hermes1 > wrote:



>> How about listing those "services"?  

>Typical Panonescu bull swinging, playing possum with the facts.
[...]
>It is not what he did in the Timisoara events that I hold against him,
>[...] but what he did afterwards.

And more exactly, what he did (said) afterwards? Just post the facts,
and leave to those interested in the subject the pleasure of reaching
their own conclusions.

Regards,

Liviu Iordache

Joe Pannon ) wrote:
 
> Roman Kanala  > wrote:
> 
>>I have to add that personally, I don't believe in collective rights.
>>It's not the collective rights that are the pilliers of the democracy.
>>Collective rights for Magyar minority, if granted, would not contribute
>>to increased social stability, as they would give more rights to a
>>group of citizen, distinction made on ethnic principles. I think that
>>in the contrary, it's the individual rights that should be granted.
> 
> Ah, there is a limit even to Roman's legendary good will and
> tolerance!  Why, what do you think is wrong with the Tyrolean solution
> between Italy and Austria?


Seems I did not express it very well. The difference between collective
and individual rights is that the individual ones are of a higher order
than the collective ones. There is a difference when one has to say
something like, we the people, or, I the citizen.

Individual rights automatically mean the respect of all the rights
that can be granted by collective approach. They go even further, as
to grant rights to individuals regardless of being backed by a group
of people with similar attributes. 

For example, in the Slovak case, collective rights mean some cultural
autonomy, some street names and tables, some schools, all that where 
Magyar minority is represented 10-20%. Individual rights mean the same, 
but anywhere in the country. Collective rights are not divisible, not
transferrable, and create an unfair treatment because of inegality.
Individual rights are giving a new quality to the notion of citizenship,
as opposed to the concept of a collective being that the Central Europe
is carrying as burden of its complex history of nationalisms.

The ideal is when noone asks what nationality (in ethnic sense) one is,
but what citizenship he holds. In Switzerland, we are close to that 
ideal state. People are simply Swiss regardless of whether they speak
five languages, three, two, or just one. Public servants have a legal
obligation to speak at least two national lanugages and the citizen
have right to speak their language for every official purpose.

The case of South TIrolia has been frequently quoted by Meciar II in
the early days when it still wasn't clear what his agenda was. It's
an example that the collective rights might lead to a creation of a 
ghetto and ethnic stratification, an evolution from a spectre to a
dichotomy. Short, exactly the opposite what would be in interest of
Slovakia given its history, settlement pattern and common cultural 
heritage of the two nations.

Roman Kanala

PS. I am crossposting this article also to bit.listserv.hungary as
it may be of interest to the list's readership.

In article >, RLH > wrote:

> who in the hell started this lame shit ????

please stop with this bullshit !!

SOMEONE MALICIOUSLY AND UNLAWFULLY INVADED MY PRIVACY (A CRIME) AND USED MY
PRIVATE INTERNET ADDRESS AS A RETURN ADDRESS FOR A SCAM INVOLVING NONEXISTENT
NUDE PICTURES OF SOMEONE NAMED "LINDA".   

ANYONE FOUND TO BE CONNECTED WITH THIS SCAM WILL BE PROSECUTED!

>From: Liviu Iordache >
>Subject: Re: Transylvania & Tokes

>And more exactly, what he did (said) afterwards? Just post the facts,
>and leave to those interested in the subject the pleasure of reaching
>their own conclusions.

Since it seems to be also an issue amongst some our goodwill filed
Hungarian 'friends' that haunt scr, I will make the deeds known.

I shall hereby commission at least 5 essays on 'Tokes & Transylvania'
all of them  written by local folk, presently living in Oradea. I will
set an award for the one essay that manages to stay closest to the
'facts', that you gentleman are showing such a craving after. I will
post them on scr, and give you the opportunity to vote for the one that
has the highest merit in this regard.  Hey, I only strive to please.


>From: Wally Keeler >
>Subject: Tokes & Stanculescu

>Tokes has no military. Tokes has no Serviciul Paza si Protocol at his
>disposal. Tokes has no Inspectoratul General al Politiei at his disposal.
>Tokes haas no Public Guardians at his disposal. Tokes has only the power of
>democratic tools at his disposal -- his ability to speak freely and to
>pursuade. It is a similar power that Quebec Premier Lucian Bouchard has.

Wally you show yourself again to be the reality challenged, endearing
little, misguided  turd you have always been.
Here is some 'food for fought' for you.  Tokes has none of the above.
I wouldn't weep for him though ! Like any other bigwig in Romania today
he moves in the company of his hired gorillas. A little Iliescu himself
with a well carved out turf in Oradea !
Furthermore he has his own 'security & information' agency, he uses it
to spy on, and mostly keep other UDMRistas straight on the Tokes line.


>From  Sun May 12 16:22:41 1996
>Subject: Re: Transylvania & Tokes

>Fortunately, your smears notwithstanding, Bishop Tokes enjoys a far
>better international standing than Romanians pushing the kind of

Hello,  Panonescu, wake up ! How could I ever enjoy the 'international
standing' that Tokes has in the worldwide morass of Hungarian extremism and
revisionism.

>hate-mongering as you just did.  Joe
What an adept description of your contribution to the usenet !

m. cristian

ANY HOAXTERS ILLEGALLY AND MALICIOUSLY USING ANOTHER PERSON'S INTERNET ADDRESS
WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.

I REPEAT, THEIR IDENTITY WILL BE FOUND AND THEY WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE 
FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.

THERE ARE NO NUDE PICTURES OF ANY GIRL NAMED LINDA, OR ANYONE ELSE, AVAILABLE
FROM THIS INTERNET DOMAIN ADDRESS.

I have just started the following campaign:  anyone that posts to this 
question in my two newsgroups gets the following email message:

>Please stop posting this stuff in soc.culture.malagasy and 
>soc.culture.kenya.  We don't want to read it anymore.

If enough of us do this we should get free after a while.  Remember *not* 
to post your response, just e-mail it!

 wrote:
> 
> Would someone answer the godamm question?
> 
> On 9 May 1996, Willybux wrote:
> 
> > Please stop the I love you column in the newsgroups. It is a waste of my
> > online time to have to sort through these. Plus there are not really
> > pertinent to the topic of the newsgroups.
> > I thank you for your consideration.
> >
> >

What the fuck is this thread doing in alt.fan.u2? Just fuck off!

-- 
Greets
Wim
--
Don't Project, Don't Connect, Protect
Don't Expect, Suggest
--
Come Ride My Friendly Highway:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~zooropa
(Made With Macintosh To Last Forever)

Hermes1  > wrote:
>
>Typical Panonescu bull swinging, playing possum with the facts.

What facts?  I was asking you a question.  Instead of an answer, you
went into your usual verbal diarrhea.
Fortunately, your smears notwithstanding, Bishop Tokes enjoys a far
better international standing than Romanians pushing the kind of
hate-mongering as you just did.

Joe

on 12 May 1996 17:41:14 GMT *   () wrote:

In article >, Mpflerr >
wrote:
>>......
>>Please, please tell me it is only a bad dream.

>Yes, it is.  Go back to sleep, MEP!

>Joe

Joe,

.....not on your life....I will stay alert.....

I guess I was wrong when I thought you were a friend of the court.

Regards,
mep