Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 852
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-11-20
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: nasty Orban... (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Social Concerns (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Social Concerns (mind)  59 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Fonyat - is it an Hungarian word - a family name ? (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Social Concerns (mind)  57 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: To everybody (mind)  41 sor     (cikkei)
7 Albanian Telegraphic Agency (ATA) 96-11-17 (mind)  155 sor     (cikkei)
8 Magyar Font (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
9 Source of Hungarian oil of oregano (marjoram) (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: To everybody (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: nasty Orban... (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Albanian Telegraphic Agency (ATA) 96-11-17 (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: The curse of honesty? (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: The curse of honesty? (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: To everybody (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
16 To evrybody. (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: nasty Orban... (mind)  66 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: The Good Life (mind)  50 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: The curse of honesty? (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: nasty Orban... (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: The curse of honesty? (mind)  54 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: The curse of honesty? (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
23 Hungarian characters (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: Magyar Font (mind)  119 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: nasty Orban... (mind)  58 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: To everybody (mind)  34 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: The Good Life (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
28 Re: The curse of honesty? (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
29 Re: nasty Orban... (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
30 Szemem alatt almatlansag viragzik (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
31 Re: To everybody (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
32 boring democracy (mind)  73 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: nasty Orban... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> I would also ask our true historians the following question: was there a
> precedent in the Western democracies for liberal-democratic parties (like
> SZDSZ) getting into a coalition with socialist parties (like MSZP)?
>
> Gabor D. Farkas
>

I have the feeling it is not unique, in the UK there was - a fairly
short lived so called "lib-lab" pact between the labour party and the
liberals in the seventies. In fact with the advent of labour now
denouncing everything but the name of socialism, the liberal left is
much more radical, than the labour right for the last few decades.

Anyway, there is no new/motivating ideas anywhere - the main reason for a
political party to exist. If they have no political ideas for the
solution of the numerous problems - what other reason they can have
for existence, then power-grabbing and career/money - whatever is
their name.  I can't perceive the difference between
labour/tory/liberal,   republican/democratic, MSzP/SzDSz/Fidesz,
Whatever differences there are of cosmetic nature, and if in power,
they do exactly the same things - the panic steps of shorttermism to cling
to power for another day.

"If votingchanged anything, they'd make it illegal"
"Whoever you vote for, the government still gets elected."

+ - Re: Social Concerns (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> To Eva Durant:
>
> You have made your point.  You don't think capitalism works.
>
> Now tell us what, in your opinion, does.
>
> Charlie Vamossy
>


In my opinion a genuinly democratic socialism would work, which
at present could be formed on better material basis, with better
educated people, who know how dangerous is the absence of democracy.

If you want to discuss this any further, respond privately, Eva
Balogh gets annoyed with any criticism of the capitalist so called
democracy, and of any speculation about the replacement of a chaotic/
inhuman/uncontrollable market system with something that would
be a step or two better.  No one with a cushy job seem to feel comfortable
with the idea of just even contemplating. I cannot comprehend why,
in my estimation, we'd all win, there'd be no loosers - if any change
is democratically controlled - and for that you have to start to use
critical thinking asap. Time is running out from a lot of
perspective.

+ - Re: Social Concerns (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

If I would accept your argument, it would mean, that
say the 20 million unemployed in the EU (it'd be a much too long a
list for the Earth) are either
1/ lazy, and choose to be unemployed or
2/ too stupid
3/ both.

If this were true (in my opinion it is not), I still don't think that it is our
 job to judge
and punish other people, when our society is well capable to produce
more than enough for everyone.
You may take comfort that your father was clever and diligent (and
lucky) - but
that is not a good reason to leave people to live in poverty and
indignity, if there are means to change society to one where everyone
feels comfortable.




>
> Eva Durant > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >That's why it doesn't work. A large section of the population
> >hasn't got the same opportunity for this successful "increasing",
> >than another (those who already have above average  lot.)
> >
>
> I am sure my father, who arrived in this country (US) at age 40, with
> only a high-school education and without being able to speak a word of
> English, would be amazed at your statement.
>
> You may write to his (paid-off) condo in Beverly Hills. Of course, you
> will have to wait until he comes back from his (third, this year) trip
> to Hungary.
>
> >
> >What other choice they have? They are free to be
> >unemployed and poor, they are not free to choose jobs,
> >choose house, choose education.
>
> This is balderdash. In the system in which I live, the limit is
> exactly where the individual sets it and the effort s/he is willing to
> put forth.
>
>
> 
>
> Bandi
>        |===================================================|
>        |    Andrew J. R"zsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA     |
>        |                                      |
>        |---------------------------------------------------|
>        |            Nincsen ro'zsa to"vis ne'lku"l!        |     |
>        |===================================================|
>

+ - Re: Fonyat - is it an Hungarian word - a family name ? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

That would make a very strange surname, indeed.
I suggest Fonyodi.


>
> At 01:18 AM 11/16/96 GMT, Bandi Rozsa wrote:
>
> >    fonnyat
> >
> >Imagine a grape after it lost its freshness, but before it becomes a
> >raisin. I'll be a monkey's uncle if I know what the English word is,
> >and I thought I knew'm all :-).
>
> The correct spelling is fonnyadt.
>
>  According to Orszagh: withered, wilted, sere, sear, marcescent
> (gyumolcs=fruit) shrunken, (szepseg=beauty) faded, (breasts) flabby.
>
> Gabor D. Farkas
>

+ - Re: Social Concerns (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Did you consider the possibility, that the new immigrants arrived
at a time of "boom", or when there was still need for workforce,
like here (UK) in the fiftes/sixties. I am talking about the present.
Present poverty/present immigrants, the present state of capitalism.
How is it, that the richest place cannot  cope now?
What is the implication for the future? Should all countries follow
the capitalist way?
It is you who are digging in the past, not me.


>
> In article >,
>  says...
> >
> >>
> >> >In capitalism your free choice is linearly related to the size of
> >> >your bankaccount.
> >>
> >> This is why this system works. Everyone tries to increase this size to
> > maximum.
> >>
> >
> >
> >That's why it doesn't work. A large section of the population
> >hasn't got the same opportunity for this successful "increasing",
> >than another (those who already have above average  lot.)
> >
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> >I detect inconsistency. In capitalism you are lucky to do what you
> >> >are forced to do?
> >>
> >> Who is forcing anyone? Last time I checked people lined up at
> factories
> >> advertising job openings.
> >>
> >> Gabor D. Farkas
> >
> >What other choice they have? They are free to be
> >unemployed and poor, they are not free to choose jobs,
> >choose house, choose education.
> >
> 
>
> This sounds to me like my Tarsadalmi Ismeretek classes 50 years ago.
> Eva, thousands of us came out from Hungary with only the clothes on our
> back and, so far I know, we all achieved a minimum average standard of
> life in the New World, but many of us an above average one;  All the
> children of my friends and acquaintances finished university and are
> highly successful professionals.  And in those times we didn't have all
> the goody-goody's present refugees and immigrants to Canada (I don't know
> about the US) get!
>
> Agnes
>

+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi, Listmembers!

I just wanted to point out for the record that I believe all the words cited
below are Eva Balogh's and not mine!

Tisztelettel,

Johanne/Janka

Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 

At 20:54 18/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Johanne L. Tournier wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Eva!
>>
>>
>> >        This is how the Hungarian right's mind works: conspiracy,
>> >conspiracy, conspiracy!! ............................
>
>
>> >The meager opposition to the Kadar regime was, of
>> >course, also planted--by the government itself. And now in the form of the
>> >SZDSZ they joined the forces of evil in order to ruin the Hungarian people!
>> >And, of course, Joe and Sam have been planted too. You didn't get it until
>> >now? But it is obvious: we all have been planted in order to discredit
>> >patriotic Hungarians like Zoli Szekely and Janos Zsargo. A cosmopolitan
>> >conspiracy against the nation.
>>
>
>
>----------------------------
>The Gati affair is the living proof of the conspiracy.
>
>
>Albert Albu
>
>
Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 
+ - Albanian Telegraphic Agency (ATA) 96-11-17 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Albanian Telegraphic Agency (ATA), 96-11-17

Albanian Telegraphic Agency

CONTENTS

[01] UNLESS KOSOVA PROBLEM IS RESOLVED, NEW CONFLICT WILL THREATEN THE
REGION - Rehn
[02] BURREL CITIZENS WANT TO SELL THEIR HOUSES
[03] COMPUTERS IMPROVE PRODUCTION SECTOR PERFORMANCE IN ELBASAN
[04] FAIR "TIRANA TRADE '96" OPENS
[05] PRESS REVIEW
[06] VICTIMS OF COMMUNIST TERROR COMMEMORATED IN TIRANA
-
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[01] UNLESS KOSOVA PROBLEM IS RESOLVED, NEW CONFLICT WILL THREATEN THE
REGION - Rehn

PRISTINE, NOV 17 (ATA)- The U.N special envoy for Human Rights, Elisabeth
Rehn, expressed on November 14 in Washington her worry over the violation
of Human Rights in former Yugoslavia, especially in Kosova, whose
unresolved problem threatens a new conflict in the region.
     Rehn described the situation in Kosova as very explosive and with a
strong police repression against Albanians.
     "Particularly the Kosova issue remains one of the greatest worries
for
the fact that the further negative developments pose the danger of a new
conflict in the region," said rehn.
     "I cannot tolerate the phenomenon of raids on houses and schools, the
teachers' pursuit and even their beating before pupils", Rehn said.
     "Unless we can resolve the Kosova problem, the situation will be
complicated further", Rehn warned.
     She stressed the need of dialogue and deplored Belgrade's
unwillingness
to discuss the Kosova issue. p.ta/kled/lm/sh/

Albanian Telegraphic Agency

[02] BURREL CITIZENS WANT TO SELL THEIR HOUSES

BURREL, NOV 17 (ATA)- Some 100 inhabitants of Burrel, Mat district in
northern Albania, have enrolled their houses for sale at the district
National Housing Enterprise branch.
     Sources of the enterprise say that this increasing tendency is linked
with the desire of many inhabitants to remove to lowland areas of the
country. As a result, the prices of houses in the free market are being
reduced and the housing problem in general is being smoothed out.
     Over the last two years, Burrel municipality sources confirm that
more
than 240 families have been sheltered through funds accorded by the
National Housing Enterprise. s.sh/kled/sh/

Albanian Telegraphic Agency

[03] COMPUTERS IMPROVE PRODUCTION SECTOR PERFORMANCE IN ELBASAN

ELBASAN, NOV 15 (ATA)- By P. Zekthi,
     The introduction of computers has largely improved the performance of
the production sectors in Elbasan, Middle Albania.
     According to representatives of the "Hard & Soft" firm, which has
long
since established ties with "Infosoft", the computers' system functions in
50 per cent of the private sector and 90 per cent of the state one in this
region. s.sh/kled/lm/sh/

Albanian Telegraphic Agency

[04] FAIR "TIRANA TRADE '96" OPENS

TIRANA, NOV 17 (ATA)-By A.Keko,
     The fair "Tirana trade '96", organised by the Chamber of Trade and
Industry in Tirana, under the auspices of the Tirana Prefecture, opened in
Tirana Saturday.
     The head of the Tirana Trade and Industry Chamber, Arben Shehi, made
a
presentation of the performance of this institution to establish ties and
cooperation between Albanian and foreign businessmen. Later, Shehu
introduced the participating firms in the fair.
     Some 40 firms and companies from Albania, "VEVE Group", "M.LEKA",
"USLLUGA", "DYPLEREX", "INSIG", "Dinamo" Plant, "Kondakci", as well as
foreign firms from Italy, Greece, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
and
other countries will participate in the fair. kled/lm/e

Albanian Telegraphic Agency

[05] PRESS REVIEW

TIRANA, NOV 17 (ATA)- Today's Rilindja Demokratike entitles its editorial
:"SP's isolation continues". The deputy president of the Socialist
International, Zingaretti, told the Italian paper "La Gazzetta del
mezzogiorno" on Friday that the Albanian socialists will probably
diminish.
     Under the title "National programme on food safeness", the paper
covers
the participation of President Berisha in the FAO World Summit.
     The paper also says that Mother Theresa today officially became
citizen
of honour of the United States.
     "The Socialist Party has the necessary potential to adapt itself to
the
contemporary demands", Zeri i Popullit says. Albanian children violently
thrown into the network of exploitation and sexual abuse in Italy", the
paper says citing the archbishop of the Tirana and Durres Diocese,
Monseigneur Rrok Mirdita, as saying.
     "Zeri i Popullit to the court. Its editor-in-chief expected to be
sentenced on December 5", the newspaper Republika says.
     Demokracia entitles its editorial: "Balance-sheet of local
coalitions".
     "Reform in the newspaper of the Socialist Party. Back to Ramiz Alia",
newspaper Albania says. "The SP will stop boycotting Institutions", the
paper says under the headline "Appeal of the Socialist International".
     Rilindja carries the article: "Albanian nationalism and national
self-
rule". The paper also carries the article "Albanian graphics at European
level".
     "SP facing the phantom of parliament", is the title of the editorial
of
newspaper Koha Jone. It says that the phantom of entering the parliament
reappears again to the socialists". Under the headline "Tension in Shkoder
after the maltreatment of the chairman of the formerly politically
persecuted", the paper carries the article "The right wing: The DP out of
Shkoder".
     Dita Informacion, under the title:"We do not return to parliament",
carries reactions of socialists after the pronouncement of Zingaretti on a
return to parliament.
     Under the title: "The revenge of contraband", Gazeta Shqiptare says
that a border police officer has been killed. The policeman is thought to
have been killed on revenge, the paper says. kled/lm/sh/

Albanian Telegraphic Agency

[06] VICTIMS OF COMMUNIST TERROR COMMEMORATED IN TIRANA

TIRANA, NOV 17 (ATA)-By M. Allushi, The days of communist terror, from
October 30 to 16,1944, in Tirana were commemorated in one of the National
Historic Museum on Saturday.
     "At the moments when the loss of Germany in the Second World War was
becoming clear, the Red Front gave instructions to eliminate all the
'dangerous people' who would cause great damage to the new government",
Uran Butka, deputy of the People's Assembly and chairman of the Commission
for the Scrutiny of the figures martyred by the communist dictatorship,
said.
     Some 100 patriots were executed without trial by the massacre
designers
including Enver Hoxha, Mehmet Shehu, Gogo Nushi and others.
     At the end, the participants, in token of homage, lighted candles at
the place Hotel Bristol was once located and one of the places where
executions were carried out. eva/lm/E
-
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>From the Albanian Telegraphic Agency (ATA) Home Page at
http://www.telpress.it/ata
+ - Magyar Font (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am looking for the Hungarian font for Macintosh. Could someone please
help me, and let me know where I might find it.  Please respond via
email: - Thanks in advance.

Florian Erika
+ - Source of Hungarian oil of oregano (marjoram) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Can someone please send us in the direction of a Hungarian producer of
oil of oregano? Thanks.

                        -Bill Barton
                                
+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 11:48 PM 11/18/96 GMT, Agnes Heringer wrote:

<snip>
>Ah Sam!  Milliok egy miatt!  You don't have to punish everybody in
>Ontario just because you don't agree with Joe!

But Agnes, that's the American way (I'll bet you Sam sells Amway!).  It's
what they've done in Cuba, too.  Their Presidents don't like Castro, so they
punish all Cubans with a trade imbargo.  And now, because more and more
non-American companies are doing business in Cuba, the Americans want to
punish/blacklist them also.  But let's not get too deep or we'll lose Sam.

Joe Szalai

"Everything was blamed on Castro. Mudslides in California. The fact that you
can't buy a decent tomato anymore. Was there an exceptionally high pollen
count in Massapequa, Long Island, one day? It was Castro, exporting sneezes."
           Calvin Trillin
+ - Re: nasty Orban... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:35 PM 11/17/90 +0000, you wrote:
Eva Durant wrote:

> I can't perceive the difference between
>labour/tory/liberal,   republican/democratic, MSzP/SzDSz/Fidesz,

I, for one, can and do perceive the difference between the republicans and
the democrats -- the choices I am presented with in the voting booth.
Fortunately, on many issues they agree on and pursue a common, bipartisan
policy (I would hate to have them disagree just for the sake of
disagreeing).  On many other, significant issues they agree on the goals but
disagree on how to achieve them.  And sometimes they have basic differences
about the goals themselves.

Then there is the choice between the individuals themselves who would
represent me.  Some are effective, care about local issues, understand the
needs of their particular electorate.  Some don't.  In my particular
Congressional district, which has a majority of Democratic enrollment, a
Republican Congressman was reelected for the 10th (!!) time, because people
feel he does a good job.  As chairman of the House Foreign Affairs
Committee, he is very important for Hungary's future and NATO enrollment.  I
make sure he knows that there are 12,000 Hungarian Americans in his district
and maintain contact with him.  So far he has done the right thing and has
been a strong supporter of Hungary.

At the same time, I am on good terms with our Town Supervisor (we have
80,000 residents in Greenburgh, NY), who is a Democrat.  As President of our
Civic Association for 4 years, it was important to maintain good relations
with the person who is responsible for police protection, picking up
garbage, maintaining streets, shoveling snow, removing the leaves in the
fall, etc.  Since his hand is in my pocket (taxes) every year to the tune of
many thousands of dollars, I make sure that he knows who elects him and who
can defeat him.  Should one day he be replaced by a Republican, I'll make
sure I have a good working relationship with him, also.

Democracy is a participatory sport.  You can't really sit on the sidelines....

Charlie Vamossy
+ - Re: Albanian Telegraphic Agency (ATA) 96-11-17 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 06:24 AM 11/19/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Subject: Albanian Telegraphic Agency (ATA), 96-11-17
>
>Albanian Telegraphic Agency
>
<< rest deleted >>

Whoever posted the rather lengthy newreport by the above agency should
realize that while some of us, or I at least, follow with interest the fate
of the Albanian people, along with other nations' in the region, we simply
cannot absorb such a large dose of detailed news from everyone on this
Hungarian list.  I would ask, therefore, that (s)he refrain from posting it
in the future.  I think the OMRI daily reports cover both Albania and the
former Yoguslav areas and do report on significant events there.

Charlie Vamossy
+ - Re: The curse of honesty? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Well Eva here is my opinion (you asked for it). here are some basic
schools of tought that do not tolerate cheating, lying, etc.
I think perhaps that he should have been told PRIOR to his accepting the
scholarship of the rules. I agree with his being sent back!
Peter Soltesz
+ - Re: The curse of honesty? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 11:25 AM 11/19/96 -0500, Peter Soltesz wrote:

>Well Eva here is my opinion (you asked for it). here are some basic
>schools of tought that do not tolerate cheating, lying, etc.
>I think perhaps that he should have been told PRIOR to his accepting the
>scholarship of the rules. I agree with his being sent back!

        OK, I will tell what I think. (1) The boy is not telling the whole
story; (2) the journalist was relying entirely on him for information. He
didn't even bother to phone the Soros Foundation and the reference he made
to the head of the high-school scholarship program was from the boy himself;
and (3) I was terribly surprised by the comments of the local principal. If
I had been the journalist I would have asked him how many times in the last
five years did the school authorities issued any warning, took any
disciplinary action, or expelled anyone from the school. After all, he
himself admitted that a case like that is "unpleasant" for the school. It
sure is, and therefore, after reading his remarks, I have the suspicion that
cases of this sort are simply swept under the rug in the school of this
particular principal.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Not, Eva. I am not making you sick. Your losing of your national
> identity makes you sick. And it won't make you feel better anymore!
> No way. And you know why? Because you used to be a Hungarian.
>                                                           Sz. Zoli
>

I feel sorry for people, who can only "find their identity" as a
particular nation, skincolour or sexuality etc.  I think there is more to
human life than these...  I feel Hungarian, as I was brought up in
Hungary and I enjoy the literature, the shared culture and I have
Hungarian friends and family. This doesn't stop me to feel English,
as I spent enough years now here to be able to share similar values
and have family and friends here. Even a year spent in Australia
made me a bit of an oz...
I am interested in the politics and lives
of human beings - obviously I am able to understand better the
things that I experienced myself - and that usually involves people
similar to me, but that doesn't mean that I stop being curious and
don't try to understand others.
But I am obviously part the international-cosmopolitan-conspiracy
that is out to destroy all honest americans, hungarians, whites,
blacks etc...
(Even worse... I am even happy most of the time - when I am
not worried about the multitudes of people not as lucky as I am.)

+ - To evrybody. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Well guys &dolls here is my 2 cents worth.I do not comprehend how and why
this constant snyping is going on.To Zoli,my question is do you think this
is a typical hungarian sickness?
By the way I feel sorry for all the hungarian children going hungry,but
there are apparently many canadian and american children so unfortunate.We
try to do our best to somehow eradicate this,but with all the governement
cutbacks (wich is basicaly our tax money)things are not rosie.What I rty to
say Zoli,what should be our priority,where should our help go?
It is very true we are Hungarian origin.But at the same time we left that
country at least forty years ago,and we became citisens of a different
country,where we pay our taxes,and receieve some benefits from it.
Don't you think it should be the Hungarian governement who should look after
those hungry kids,don't you think that it is not our fault that this is
happening?
Unfortunatly we can not feed the whole world and if we try to do something
more countrys are against it.(See Rawanda).
It is very uplifting to find a young man like you Zoli,who is such a great
Hungarian.May I ask what or how much did you contribute to ease the hunger
for those kids?
I also would like to aske you who is giving you the right to say "this
person is not Hungarian eny more"Maybe you are right since as I mentioned we
have dual citisen ship,since we did not denounce our Hungarian one.
You can not be judge and jury,not even an executioner,even if deep in your
heart you would like to be.
Don't judge people,and don't crucify the ones with Aids.Life is short as
they say,but with your cleanest lifestile you don't know what can happen to you
.
Moderation is a virtue.Lets use it.
Andy Kozma.
+ - Re: nasty Orban... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 08:26 AM 11/19/96 -0800,  Charles Mikecz Vamossy wrote:

<snip>
>I, for one, can and do perceive the difference between the republicans and
>the democrats -- the choices I am presented with in the voting booth.

That's a choice?  Boy, are you ever easy to please.  I bet you'd be very
content if, when you buy a car, they'd offer you "choices" between a blue
car and a deeper blue car.

>Fortunately, on many issues they agree on and pursue a common, bipartisan
>policy (I would hate to have them disagree just for the sake of
>disagreeing).  On many other, significant issues they agree on the goals but
>disagree on how to achieve them.  And sometimes they have basic differences
>about the goals themselves.

Go on!  You're trying to scare us.

>Then there is the choice between the individuals themselves who would
>represent me.  Some are effective, care about local issues, understand the
>needs of their particular electorate.  Some don't.

You reduce democracy to a contest between personal style, or lack thereof.
For all that, you may as well have stayed in Hungary.  You had a choice
between individuals there too.  What ever happened to conflicting ideas or
ideologies?

>In my particular
>Congressional district, which has a majority of Democratic enrollment, a
>Republican Congressman was reelected for the 10th (!!) time, because people
>feel he does a good job.  As chairman of the House Foreign Affairs
>Committee, he is very important for Hungary's future and NATO enrollment.  I
>make sure he knows that there are 12,000 Hungarian Americans in his district
>and maintain contact with him.  So far he has done the right thing and has
>been a strong supporter of Hungary.

What does your last sentence mean?  What is a "strong supporter" by your
definition?  Or is that an embarrassing question?

>At the same time, I am on good terms with our Town Supervisor (we have
>80,000 residents in Greenburgh, NY), who is a Democrat.  As President of our
>Civic Association for 4 years, it was important to maintain good relations
>with the person who is responsible for police protection, picking up
>garbage, maintaining streets, shoveling snow, removing the leaves in the
>fall, etc.

Hmmm.  I didn't realize that in America one had to grovel before
politicians.  But hey, at least you're free!

>Since his hand is in my pocket (taxes) every year to the tune of
>many thousands of dollars, I make sure that he knows who elects him and who
>can defeat him.  Should one day he be replaced by a Republican, I'll make
>sure I have a good working relationship with him, also.

Atta boy, Charlie.  I'm sure both Republican and Democrat politicians think
of P.T. Barnum's famous quote when they see you.

>Democracy is a participatory sport.  You can't really sit on the sidelines....

Excuse me, but I think I have to throw up.

Joe Szalai

"Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at
great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates."
              Gore Vidal
+ - Re: The Good Life (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I think the "human nature" arguement is not valid.

1. The progress of human society is actually based on cooperation,
    and over history people tend to feel a duty towards the others
    in the same family, than the same tribe, than the same state, and
   now  - most of us - even for people on other continents.

2. There is no such thing as "human nature" defined, we are still an
    evolving/changing entity.

3. It is too easy to throw up our hands and say - all people are
   selfish, so we are justified not to look for better
   solutions/change and put up with all the injustice around us.

4. Yes, we are all selfish upto a point, but it is in our selfish
    interest to create a  more human-friendly society.


Would you elaborate, where do you find  the flaw in my idea
of democratically controlled and owned society? I don't remember
our pol.gazd books drawing our attention to the (existed) elevated role of
the state - as opposed to it's diminishing role prescribed by the
classiscs and for which now the social/material environment exist.




  (Janos Zsargo:)
. It is not the capitalism which
> does the unfairness but the basic human nature. And the most unfurtunate
> thing is that you cannot really offer solution. What you think a solution is,
> has already been tried and it was a failure, as you admitted. There is
> no 'real socialism/communism' only in your and E.Durant's, etc mind.
> (you may call it 'unexisting socialism' that would be a perfect name.)
> I have already asked E.Durant what would be the difference between the real
 and
> 'existing' socialism and how the traps of the 'existing' one can be avoided.
> She presented the same old fairy-tale taught on my pol-gazd classes.
> And don't think, I am insensitive to the suffering of African or Asian
> people or don't care with the environment. But these are real problems
> and we are seeking real solutions not social experiments.
>
> J.Zs
>
> P.S: A discussion is going on this list about 'disillusioned marxist'
> forming/not forming the SZDSZ 'ko:me'ny mag'. Either way, these guys
> must be very familiar with marxism-leninism, why do you think they
> are disillusioned?
>

+ - Re: The curse of honesty? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva... You are right. Lots of times there are those reporters who fail to
do their jobs and investigate the behind the scenes facts. Your questions
are good. I based my comments strictly on the facts stated so far.
(Presumed to be true).
I would also find it highly suspicious that this boy was "forced" to
resign and sent back to Hungary. Perhaps there was MUCH  MORE to this
than is yet public. Perhaps it was more that neither the boy nor the
school want to make public for fear of embarresment???

One might assume that (at least once in a while) a famous school like
this has other expulsions that are kept quiet.  How many others were
dismissed as such?
Regards, Peter Soltesz

On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Eva S. Balogh wrote:

> At 11:25 AM 11/19/96 -0500, Peter Soltesz wrote:
>
> >Well Eva here is my opinion (you asked for it). here are some basic
> >schools of tought that do not tolerate cheating, lying, etc.
> >I think perhaps that he should have been told PRIOR to his accepting the
> >scholarship of the rules. I agree with his being sent back!
>
>         OK, I will tell what I think. (1) The boy is not telling the whole
> story; (2) the journalist was relying entirely on him for information. He
> didn't even bother to phone the Soros Foundation and the reference he made
> to the head of the high-school scholarship program was from the boy himself;
> and (3) I was terribly surprised by the comments of the local principal. If
> I had been the journalist I would have asked him how many times in the last
> five years did the school authorities issued any warning, took any
> disciplinary action, or expelled anyone from the school. After all, he
> himself admitted that a case like that is "unpleasant" for the school. It
> sure is, and therefore, after reading his remarks, I have the suspicion that
> cases of this sort are simply swept under the rug in the school of this
> particular principal.
>
>         Eva Balogh
>
+ - Re: nasty Orban... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Farkas asked:
> I would also ask our true historians the following question: was there a
> precedent in the Western democracies for liberal-democratic parties (like
> SZDSZ) getting into a coalition with socialist parties (like MSZP)?

As so far there has been no response from 'true historians', perhaps now
the question can be thrown open to all.

A social-democrat/liberal (SPD/FDP) coalition ruled West Germany for quite a
few years, supporting such names in the Chancellor's office as Willy Brandt
and Helmut Schmidt.  It is fair to speculate that but for this coalition,
the famous Ostpolitik would not have been possible.  The coalition lasted
until the liberals decided that the SPD had lost its gloss and switched to
the CDU/CSU parties, helping Helmut Kohl into office in 1982.  In my view,
the FDP was once again vindicated in their choice of coalition partner.

The comparison is not quite perfect (none are), as the SPD was/is not a
partly-transformed ex-communist state party.  Also, in Germany the the
FDP is critical for any of the big parties as a coalition partner, while
in Hungary the MSzP would have the numbers in Parliament even on its own.

George Antony
+ - Re: The curse of honesty? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, "Eva S.
Balogh" > writes:

>  I would be very curious of what the readers' reaction is to this piece.
>
>        Eva Balogh
>
>

Eva, I have some slight familiarity with Woodberry Forest since several
high school and college acquaintances wound up putting in some time there.
While most of its students undoubtedly come from upper-class families and
are trying to get an educational edge, a significant portion of its
student body is composed of wealthy screw-ups fleeing criminal records and
poor academic performances at public high schools in their own home towns.
A former neighbor of mine who, not coincidentally, owns a thriving auto
dealership in a Piedmont town in North Carolina is a perfect example of
the kind of Woodberry product I'm talking about.

Ge'za Sa'pi probably would have been better off had he simply applied with
a foreign exchange program for placement in a public high school. And Mr.
Soros would be better off spending his money to put Hungarian teenagers in
those high schools. Pardon my language, but these kids aren't going to
learn diddly-shit about American society and culture from a year in an
upper-class prep school. Why Mr. Soros would waste $20,000 on sending one
kid to one holding pen for pubescent elitists rather than using it to send
five kids to public schools where they might actually come in contact with
real, average Americans is beyond me. I doubt he spends his time
monitoring this list, so we're not likely to get an answer from him
anytime soon.

Ge'za, assuming he's telling the truth about the events leading up to his
expulsion, got caught in the classic bind that comes with the prep school
territory. The teacher and administration knew someone in the class was
cheating on the test. Based upon a long history of Woodberry students with
felonious predilections and fat wallets, they no doubt knew that several
someones were cheating. So they dropped a hammer on the foreign
scholarship student with the funny accent to, as the British used to say
when they'd shoot the odd admiral, encourage the others. Keeps the bottom
line perking right along and sends a clear message that cheating will not
be tolerated unless the perpetrators can be more subtle about it. Now that
I think about it, Ge'za may have gotten a master's degree in the sociology
of what passes for morals among the monied class in American society these
days.
Sam Stowe

"Tourism probably changed our culture
as much as anything did. To attract tourists
you don't necessarily give them the true
history. Sometimes you have to compromise
and make those little tomahawks and
set a chief up on the street."
-- Joyce Dugan, Principal Chief of the
Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation
+ - Re: The curse of honesty? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

nicely translated (thanks!) article reflects a very human response to an
apparently shameful event, albeit without substance for a reader to judge this
situation-ethics problem (e.g. was the student warned before? were there other
behavior problems? does the S foundation get a refund? etc)

let's not ride the wave of self-rightousness here. in a society which crams
inner city kids into public school snake pits (see There Are No Children Here,
Death At An Early Age), any discussion of academic honesty at a $20K prep
school begs the question of honesty on all levels.

ah, it must be a treat to take a seminar-style roundtable test, elbow-to-elbow
at such prestigious school!

perhaps future scholarship recipients can attend *real* u.s. schools, like in
Bedf Stuyv, LA, Chgo, Miami, etc., where these kinds of problems rarely arise,
and $20K could be spent more honestly...
+ - Hungarian characters (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Please can someone help.

My wife has been trying to communicate with her cousin via e-mail and in
Hungarian.

Unfortuantely the "special" Hungarian characters do not appear correctly
on my PC when receiving e-mail.  I can type the characters and I believe
they are received correctly.


v - o with two dots )
| - u with two dots )
i - e with accent   )-  do these appear correctly ?
a - a with accent   )
m - i with accent   )


Is there a way to ensure that the characters will be received correctly.

Many thanks for reading this.

--
Jason Simmonds
Kent, United Kingdom

+ - Re: Magyar Font (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Kedves Florian Erika!

    Ne haragudjon, hogy magyarul irok.  De remelem, hogy megerti...
(Mivelhogy nekem farasztobb angolul fogalmazni - a vilagon egyik
legnehezebb nyelven.)

    Ha valaki magyarul akar irni, ketfelekeppen lehet megoldani a
Macintoshon:

1)  Hasznalni az Apple magyar script rendszeret, amely all a kovetkezo
allomanyokbol:
        "Magyar" script fajl
        "Magyar+US" keyboard fajl
        "Magyar-H" keyboard fajl
        "Athens CE" betukeszlet
        "Chicago CE" betukeszlet
        "Courier CE" betukeszlet
        "Geneva CE" betukeszlet
        "Helvetica CE" betukeszlet
        "London CE" betukeszlet
        "Los Angeles CE" betukeszlet
        "Monaco CE" betukeszlet
        "Monaco CE" betukeszlet
        "New York CE" betukeszlet
        "Palatino CE" betukeszlet
        "Times CE" betukeszlet
        "Venice CE" betukeszlet

    Ugy tudom (nem tudom miert), hogy az Apple nem hozza forgalomba a
Central European Language Kit-et.  Igy ezeket ketfelekeppen lehet
megszerezni:

    a)  Megvenni a Magyar Renszerszoftvert, s abbol manualisan kivenni a
fenti elemeket, s beletenni a sajat renszerbe.

    b)  Megvenni a tobbnyelvu szovegszerkeszto szoftvert, mint pl.
"Nisus Writer"-t vagy "AllScript"-et (en a NIsust ajanlanam), s utana
kulon rendelni a Kelet-Europai nyelvi telepitot.

    Ennek a megoldasnak az az elonye, hogy ez a sztenderd Macintosh
magyar rendszer.  A csereszabatossag (kompatibilitas) meg van
biztositva.

    A hatranya az, hogy nem csereszabatos a default Macintosh
fontkeszlettel.  A kelet-europai betukeszlet neve "CE"-vel van
kibovitve.  Erre sajnos a magyar hosszu o" es u" miatt szukseges.  Masik
problema az, hogy tobb szovegszerkeszto szoftver a kelet-europai
nyelvekkel szemben vedekezik (a kalozkodas ellen).  A fenti ket
szoftvernel kulon Language Key-t meg kell venni, maskulonben nem lehet
hasznalni azokat.  (Igaz azt az oromhirt hallottam, hogy a Nisus a
kovetkezo verziotol megszuntetik ezt a protekciot.)  A harmadik problema
az (igaz, hogy ez a legtobb szamara jelentektelen vagy erthetetlen),
hogy ebbol a hivatalos magyar betukeszletbol hianyzik a "zart e" betu
(umlautos e).  Ez latszolag kis problema, de a nyelveszek szamara igen
sulyos problema, ha a magyar zart e-t nem lehet jelolni.

2)  Hasznalni egy harmadik parti (nem Apple) altal forgalomba hozott
betukeszletet:

    a)  Megvenni tobbnyelvu betukeszletet, mint pl. Euro-Helvetica-t
vagy Euro-Times-t.

    Ennek az az elonye, hogy csak ezzel majdnem osszes latin betus
nyelven lehet irni.  Tovabba mivel ez angol scriptkent mukodik, nem
erzekeny a kelet-europai protekciora.  Hatranya azonban az, hogy a
betukeszlet nem kompatibilis a hivatalos Apple betukeszlettel.  Tehat ha
ezzel megnezi az Apple altal magyarul irott szoveget, masmilyen betuk
jelennek meg.  Masik hatranya az, hogy nagyon keves a betutipus.

    b)  Megvenni egy harmadik parti altal forgalomba hozott magyar
betukeszletet:

    Ezek PostScript (ATM) betuk.  Elonye szinten az, hogy ezek angol
betukent mukodnek, igy nem erzekeny a kelet-europai protekciora.  A
masik oriasi elonye, hogy nagyon sok betutipussal rendelkezik (pl. H-
AvantGardeBook, H-AvantGardeBookOblique, H-AvantGardeDemi, H-
AvantGardeDemiOblique, H-Vivante, H-ZapfChanceryMedItalic).  Hatranya
szinten az, hogy a betukeszlet nem kompatibilis a hivatalos Apple
betukeszlettel.

    Sajnos en nem tudom, hogy az Euro-.... betukeszletet hol lehet
kapni, mert csak ismerosomnel lattam.  (Orulnek, ha valaki megmondana
nekem a ceg nevet es e-mail cimet.)

    A magyar PostScript fontokat a magyar Apple forgalmazoinal lehet
kapni.  Az apple magyarorszagi viszonteladok cimlistat a "http://
www.hdsys.hu/apple/list.html" cimen lehet megtalalni.  En a Baum
Computernel vettem meg azokat (E-Mail: )

    A magyarorszagi Apple adatok "Az Apple Compputer, Inc. magyarorszagi
kepviselete" cimu ottlapon (Home Pagen) talalhatok: http://
www.hdsys.hu/.

    Remelem, hogy valamit hasznal Onnek.


Tokio, 1996.11.20., szerdan, 10:12 JST

                                    HUKAYA Sitosi


    ================================================================
    HUKAYA Sitosi                                associate professor
    http://bosei.cc.u-tokai.ac.jp/~hukaya_s/

    E-mail: 
               ]
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         ** E-Mail addresses with * are not recommended! **
                            TEL: (Home)    +81-3-5383-7573
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    Tokai University
    School of Letters, Department of Civilization,
    Course of European Studies, East European Studies
    259-12 Kanagawa-ken, Hiratuka-si, Kitakaname 1117, Japan
    ================================================================
+ - Re: nasty Orban... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

You made the case for me: republicans and democrats
are interchangable, it doesn't make a difference which one is in
power, especially in the local government, where the local
industrialists can apply their power quite visibly and are
interlinked with political power.

Just like here, the slogans are the same for both tories and labour
"fight crime", "save the family", bring back our beautiful morals
by enforcing religion in schools, etc, etc.  and the slogans are
closely following perceived (market researched) public opinion.

Not a very useful way to find creative thoughts to change/improve
our lot... and not democratic. People don't feel enpowered
from the act of voting. Their refusal to vote doesn't mean they
satisfied, it means they feel powerless.  By the way, what were the
non-voting figures this time? I missed them.


> Eva Durant wrote:
>
> > I can't perceive the difference between
> >labour/tory/liberal,   republican/democratic, MSzP/SzDSz/Fidesz,
>
> I, for one, can and do perceive the difference between the republicans and
> the democrats -- the choices I am presented with in the voting booth.
> Fortunately, on many issues they agree on and pursue a common, bipartisan
> policy (I would hate to have them disagree just for the sake of
> disagreeing).  On many other, significant issues they agree on the goals but
> disagree on how to achieve them.  And sometimes they have basic differences
> about the goals themselves.
>
> Then there is the choice between the individuals themselves who would
> represent me.  Some are effective, care about local issues, understand the
> needs of their particular electorate.  Some don't.  In my particular
> Congressional district, which has a majority of Democratic enrollment, a
> Republican Congressman was reelected for the 10th (!!) time, because people
> feel he does a good job.  As chairman of the House Foreign Affairs
> Committee, he is very important for Hungary's future and NATO enrollment.  I
> make sure he knows that there are 12,000 Hungarian Americans in his district
> and maintain contact with him.  So far he has done the right thing and has
> been a strong supporter of Hungary.
>
> At the same time, I am on good terms with our Town Supervisor (we have
> 80,000 residents in Greenburgh, NY), who is a Democrat.  As President of our
> Civic Association for 4 years, it was important to maintain good relations
> with the person who is responsible for police protection, picking up
> garbage, maintaining streets, shoveling snow, removing the leaves in the
> fall, etc.  Since his hand is in my pocket (taxes) every year to the tune of
> many thousands of dollars, I make sure that he knows who elects him and who
> can defeat him.  Should one day he be replaced by a Republican, I'll make
> sure I have a good working relationship with him, also.
>
> Democracy is a participatory sport.  You can't really sit on the sidelines...
.
>
> Charlie Vamossy
>

+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva Duran - At 03:50 PM 19/11/90 +0000, you wrote in response to Sz. Zoli's
typically wise words, addressed to E.B.

>I feel sorry for people, who can only "find their identity" as a
>particular nation, skincolour or sexuality etc.  I think there is more to
>human life than these...  I feel Hungarian, as I was brought up in
>Hungary and I enjoy the literature, the shared culture and I have
>Hungarian friends and family. This doesn't stop me to feel English,
>as I spent enough years now here to be able to share similar values
>and have family and friends here. Even a year spent in Australia
>made me a bit of an oz...

I am not sure if you were out of range of, or simply on the sidelines
reading during the many "feelings" as posted by Sz. Zoli during the past
months.  I would hope to think the former to be correct; since that would be
in line with your rather kind remarks. Taking the latter into consideration
would have to make you the object of my personal pity.  Which would prove to
be a real pity; since for a rare change I actually find myself agreeing with
most of what you said above, right up to and including "skincolour"
excluding "sexuality" and including all of the rest to "oz....".

>I am interested in the politics and lives
>of human beings - obviously I am able to understand better the
>things that I experienced myself - and that usually involves people
>similar to me, but that doesn't mean that I stop being curious and
>don't try to understand others.

Try to make Mr. Sz. understand this!  If you can actually succeed, no doubt,
that  we can organize a real nice prize for you, from within the group.

<snip> - but glad to know that you are happy ;-)!  Hope it is most of the time!

Regards,
Aniko
+ - Re: The Good Life (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva Durant At 03:50 PM 19/11/90 +0000, you wrote in response to J. Zsargo:

>I think the "human nature" arguement is not valid.
>
>1. The progress of human society is actually based on cooperation,
>    and over history people tend to feel a duty towards the others
>    in the same family, than the same tribe, than the same state, and
>   now  - most of us - even for people on other continents.
In all honesty, the last part of your statement throws me off;  it appears,
that prior to it, you are saying that people tend to feel duty towards their
family members over that of the same tribe, state - the rest, I lost - for
me, it contradicts the prior.  Am I alone?  (btw - this is not to say, that
I am in agreement either - I am questioning my abilities interpretning English)
.

Upon clarification of this; I will come back to the rest.

Thanks,
Aniko.
<snip for now>
+ - Re: The curse of honesty? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
 says...
>
This doesn't make sense.  Geza glanced at the other paper and noticed one
little word?  If he was so well prepared, than he must have submitted a
paper that had nothing to do with the other guys, and would have just
laughed on the boy who told him that he looked at the other paper.
Something doesn't wash...

Agnes
+ - Re: nasty Orban... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 04:30 PM 11/19/96 -0500, Joe Szalai  wrote:

>Excuse me, but I think I have to throw up.
>
>Joe Szalai
>
>

Let us know when you are feeling better and ready to rejoin us.

Charlie
+ - Szemem alatt almatlansag viragzik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Does anyone know this poem?

Szemem alatt almatlansag viragzik
az in s|r| kvnyeimtol elazik,
lesz mig az in arcom olyan viragos,
lampas szemem szerelemtvl vilagos!

Mar a kakas a harminchatot kialtott
Tagadhattok engem ides baratok.
Megttagadtok, nem veszem a szivemre.
Js a vilag, mig nekem is js benne.

Who wrote it?
Are there other words?
Was it written for someone's birthday? Whose?

I'd very much appreciate any leads.  Thanks,

+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 on Nov 17 17:37:41 EST 1996 in HUNGARY #850:

>        Zoltan Szekely tries to convince us that he is a social democrat. I
>claim that he is not a social democrat but rather a rightwinger. Zoltan
>Szekely thinks that I am basing this *faulty* opinion on GENERAL IMPRESSION
>(emphasize [sic!] by Zoltan Szekely) and this general impression is totally
based
>on nothing. I am basing my opinion on your utterances about religion, about
>homosexuals, about politics, and I found nothing which reminds me of a
>social democrat. Your opinions on many subjects are associated with the
>right and not the left.
>
>        But you can ask other people's opinion as well. Somehow I don't
>think that too many people would call you a social democrat.
>
>        Eva Balogh

Ok, here is my opinion.  I believe it is plain silly to label somebody as a
rightwinger (or left-winger, for that matter) on the basis of his "utterances
about religion and homosexuals" as Eva Balogh does.  Apparently, her intense
hatred/antipathy/dislike toward Zoltan Szekely overcame her reasoning
ability.

Ferenc
+ - boring democracy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:28 PM 11/19/90 +0000,Eva Durant wrote:

>Not a very useful way to find creative thoughts to change/improve
>our lot... and not democratic. People don't feel enpowered
>from the act of voting.

Eva -- for creative thoughts, for improving our lot, for just about
everything, except picking up garbage, paving streets, patrolling the
streets, we turn to ourselves, not the government.  The less government we
have, the better.

I am not sure what you mean about being "empowered" from voting, as it were
some kind of mystic or religious experience that cleanses the soul.
Nonsense.  I vote. Then I go to work. I go home. I go sailing.  I go skiing.
I live my life.  Its something you do, like brushing your teeth -- just less
often.

On the other hand, when things happen in my neighborhood that I don't like
and affect me and my neighbors, I have the freedom and the opportunity (far
more than I ever had in Hungary) to go down to Town Hall and voice my
opinion.  Twice a month we have open Town Board meetings and anyone can
speak.  (You can even view the meeting live on TV and call in on the phone
and speak to everyone through a speaker phone, if you don't feel like
getting dressed.  Dial-in Democracy.)  Most of the time you can see the
results, too.  Case in point:  Our County government decided to install
seats for a 5,000 seat baseball stand for summer night minor league games.
The bleachers would have been in some cases less than 100 feet from some
people's houses, with music and announcements blaring till 10-11PM every
night.  Getting the Town Supervisor and Board behind us, we were able to
convince the County Board to reverse their plans, and the neighborhood is
now quiet and peaceful.

Does it make any difference if the politicians involved were Democrats or
Republicans?  Would it have been better resolved had they been elected on a
sharply defined  ideological party platform?   Would the issues have been
more clarified if they were extreme left-wingers and right-wingers?  I
doubt't it. If they were, most likely they would be still arguing about it,
each side outshouting the other and waving their well-thumbed copies Marx
and Adam Smith, while missing the point that all the neighborhood wanted was
a little bit of peace and quiet.

Admittedly, American politics would be a lot more exciting, especially to
those who watch it from afar, if we had 6 (at least) political parties, each
of them uniquely qualified to solve all problems on earth, diametrically
opposed to everyone else, fighting for every scrap of "truth", taking no
prisoners in the process.   It would add even more fire and brimstone if the
leading politicians would be assured a seat by virtute of heading their own
"lists", thus never ever having to bother looking in the eye a constituent
of a particular district, never ever having to listen to down to earth but
important-to-the-man-on-the-street problems. Boy, could they have fun
denouncing each other, threatening to hang each other from the lampposts
(literately),  excommunicating their "party members" for not toeing the
party line.  What fun!!!  How exciting!!!

Better yet, fully convinced of our right and our might, we could declare the
dictatorship of the (proletariat,middle class, women, left handed people,
animal research laboratory assistants -- choose your pick), and simply rule
in their name by edict.  Or, wait, even better!  How about a "People's
Democracy"?  Cool name, eh?  We could nationalize all land and factories by
government regulation alone, actually execute our rule, and then
subsequently pass a law in the National Assembly sanctifying what we have
already done.  (Sounds a little bit too familiar to us Hungarians?)
Creative democracy --  finally something to give creative accounting a run
for its money.

Maybe after 220 years of occasionally shaky but well honed practice,
American  democracy is boring.  I like it that way.  It works.


regards,


Charlie Vamossy

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