Peter k Chong > wrote:

>Sumerian:       bur 411,104 (to drill, to riddle with holes)
>Finnish:        porata (it drills)       
>Hungarian:      fŁr (")
>Turkish:        burgu (drill - noun)
>Kalmuk Mongol:  burçu (")

And of course:
Swedish:	 Borra
English:	 Bore

Not much of evidence. :)

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 (Loren Petrich) wrote:

>	If there are that many errors in it, then how reliable is it?

Not much. The similarities I understood was the one for drill/bore,
man and father. Bore and man is words that are similar in Swedish and
English too (definitely unrelated to these languages) and all languges
first words for 'father' is similar to 'papa'.

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In article >,  says...
>
>>>>This is another step to divide and not to unite races.  Go
>>>>figure.
>>>>Gabor M.
>>>>
>>>I fully agree.  On the top of it, these people won't get a
>>>decent education if they won't be able to speak/write English,
>>>so even the smart and ambitious ones won't be able to get out
>>>of poverty. This is the same stupidity as what the Quebec
>>>government does, to deprive children of learning decent
>>>English, with their French only policy.
>>>Agnes
>
>Poetician1 wrote: 
>>Perhaps if they learned decent French they wouldn't end up so
>>stupid.
>
>"Johanne L. Tournier" >:
>|If you ask a Frenchman in France, he would tell you that Quebec
>|French is not decent French, because it is a dialect. 
>
>Many Brits of England regard American English in the same manner.
>
>"Johanne L. Tournier" > wrote:
>|Anyway, you are putting words in Agnes's mouth, Wally. She did
>|not say that speaking French is stupid or causes sstupidity, she
>|said the policy of limiting access to English language education
>|in Quebec is stupid.
>
>She said that it is "the same stupidity" by the Oakland Board of
>Education and the Quebec government wherein if children don't
>learn decent English they won't be able to get out of poverty.
>This is, of course, hogwash. Learning decent French does not
>condemn a child to poverty. This is a stupid contention. 
>
Nobody said learning decent French is stupid.  French is a beautiful 
language and I love it.  Depriving children of learning decent English is 
stupid.

>Poetician1 wrote:
>>French is a major world language -- it is not a cause of
>>stupidity, poverty, or any other social ills. Perhaps it would
>>be better if all Hungarians were required to learn English,
>>instead of Hungarian. 
>
>"Johanne L. Tournier" > wrote:
>|You are setting up a straw man here, Wally. It is certainly a
>|fact of life that people who speak a relatvely uncommon tongue
>|are perforce obliged to learn a second language more so than
>|people who speak one of the world's major tongues.
>
>Then what is the point of continuing a language that the vast
>vast majority of the world has no use for. Hungarian is largely
>redundant, unnecessary. Far better to assimilate to the lingua
>franca. I 'personally' think not.
>
>|For example, the Scandinavians as a group tend to be proficient
>|in 3 or 4 languages. This has not hampered their facility in
>|speaking their native tongues in any way.
>
>But why should it? Their native tongue, like Hungarian for
>Hungarians, is maintained for culturally sentimental and
>currently pragmatic reasons, and this is sufficient for their
>continued existence.
>
>|What is being observed in Quebec is the most narrow-minded and
>|restricted chauvinism, and the younger people are being limited
>|in their bilingual facility because of the government's
>|deliberate policy. And this will not help Quebec or its people
>|in the long run.
>
>That is for the people of Quebec to decide. I consider your
>contention, as well as Agnes's contention to be far more
>chauvinistic and Anglo-imperialistic. There seems to be no
>problem of chauvinism or narrow-mindedness when British Columbia
>restricts its educational institutions to English-only.
>British Columbia is very largely English-speaking. Quebec is very
>largely French-speaking. You want to water down the French fact
>of Quebec? I prefer that Quebec be as French as it can be. I have
>no desire to turn Quebec into a Louisiana-clone.
>
>>At any rate, Quebec permits English instruction of those
>>students whose mother tongue was English -- 
>
>"Johanne L. Tournier" >
>|but they don't permit English education for those whose mother
>|tongue was *other* than English, 
>
>Why the hell should they? Those who immigrate to Canada and
>FREELY CHOOSE to reside in Quebec are up for grabs -- Quebec
>requires that they learn French, the other provinces require that
>they learn English. In Penetanguishene the students can get a
>French education. Penetag has been historically French. They were
>French before the English conquest. The same for the belt of
>French across northern Ontario (Sudbury & region) extending into
>Manitoba. There are pockets of English in Quebec who have a
>historically established right to expect English education
>continuity for their children. Children of immigrants do not have
>this right in Quebec, any more than children of immigrants have a
>right to expect a French education in Edmonton. If an immigrant
>wants their children taught in English, then they can freely
>choose to live in 75% of the rest of Canada where the Quebec Act
>of 1774 never prevailed. 
>
Right.  There are not too many immigrants outside of Montreal and they 
are doing just that: leaving in a constant stream.

>|and I believe the policies on English education are becoming
>|even more restricted than they were for children whose parents
>|are English speakers, but I don't have the exact regulations at
>|my finger tips.
>
>You can believe what you wish, however, it is not so alarmist as
>is often made out.
>
>>in fact, Quebec (a French province) is far more generous in
>>English education than are Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, etc
>>(English provinces) in French education.
>
>|That is B.S. I live in Nova Scotia, where the government funds
>|education in French immersion for Anglophone students - a very
>|different attitude toward learning Canada's other official
>|language than you find in Quebec. 
>
>When I started high school in southern Ontario, French was
>dropped, and remained dropped from the curriculum. This was a
>fact all over the province. French is available, and it is paid
>for by the government. My son is presently attending an
>alternative school which provides no French. Many other schools
>in Toronto do not provide French. It's not compulsory. French
>education is offered in those pockets of Francophone communities
>where the numbers warrant its implementation. Nevertheless,
>Quebec is more generous to its Anglophone community than Ontario
>is to its Francophone community. To think otherwise is to be
>subject to media mania.
>
>|In addition, French students attending a school in Cape Breton,
>|I believe it is, are upset, because they are being forced to
>|attend a French language school, and they want to continue
>|attending school with their Anglophone friends. 
>
>This is news to me. Can you flesh it out?
>
>>And French communities exist largely at their own expense
>>outside Quebec in spite of the fact that there are majority
>>pockets of them hither and yon across northern Ontario,
>>Manitoba, New Brunswick.
>
>|The French population of Manitoba is about 50,000 in a
>|population of about 800,000, I believe. The question is how much
>|governement subsidization is reasonable/feasible to support such
>|a small minority. 
> 
>Indeed. Quebec has the right to ask the same question for its own
>interest. It considers its French identity of utmost importance
>and that it takes precedence over many other things. After the
>conquest the English permitted the French to maintain their
>language and Napoleanic civil code. This was all well and good.
>Now that the French have regained real majority control of their
>political structures, then are permitting the English in Quebec
>to maintain their historically established English education. All
>others get assimilated into French -- get used to it -- they are
>right to do it.
>
>>While I agree with you insofar as perceiving "Ebonics" as
>>regressive in matters of advancing education and understanding,
>>I disagree with your Anglo-centric assessment of Quebec's
>>policies.
>
>|Criticism of Quebec's policies should not be seen as
>|Anglo-centric. 
>
>Perhaps Anglo-suprematist would be more accurate.
>
>|I doubt very much if Agnes has any particular bias toward
>|Anglos, being as she is an allophone. Suppose the
>|English-language children in the rest of Canada were told that
>|they *could* not study in French? What would you think of that
>|policy? 
>
>There are many places in Canada where they are told exactly that
>-- Whitehorse for example. There are no laws forbidding it,
>however, it may not be available within a few hundred miles.
>French-speaking children can study in English if the parents
>privately pay for it. English-speaking children can learn French
>if they pay for it.
>
>|I suppose you think that the restrictions on the language on
>|signs in Quebec is reasonable, too. 
>
>
>Yes I do. It is their homeland. They have the right to decorate
>their home as they see fit.
>
Tolem ugyan ki is viragozhatnak...  Main thing I am not there any more!

In article >,  says...
>
>Bonjour, Clary! (And BUEK!)
>
>CLARY Olivier wrote:
>> 
>> In article >  writes:
>> >If you ask a Frenchman in France, he would tell you that Quebec 
French
>> >is not decent French, because it is a dialect. [...]
>> 
>> No, it's clearly French, but with an awful accent :-)
>
>I was speaking with tongue in cheek (:-)) - but from your comment, I
>take it you would agree that most speakers of Parisian French would tend
>to regard the Quebec accent as a terrible one! (I hasten to add my
>grandmother was from near Belfort, and those Parisian speakers would
>look with equal disdain upon her accent!)
>> 
>> >What is being observed in Quebec is the most narrow-minded and
>> >restricted chauvinism, and the younger people are being limited in 
their
>> >bilingual facility because of the government's deliberate policy. 
[...]
>> 
>> That immigrant kids are required to use French schools? It does not 
limit
>> bilingual facility but increases it: mother language + French. And 
like
>> all francophone kids they will watch US TV, and know more and better
>> English anyway than we generally do in France, or in Hungary.
>
>No, no, that is not my point. I disagree with the state, in this case,
>the government of Quebec, restricting people's access to education in
>the language they desire to have their children taught in. Immigrants
>are often classed as allophones, which is the term for people whose
>native language is other than English or French. These people often wish
>to have their children taught in English, but the Quebec government
>forbids these people to send their children to English-language schools.
>Frankly, it would seem that they would be bilingual as well if they went
>to English-language school, but their bilingual facility would be in
>English and their native language rather than necessarily French and the
>native language. 
>
>Actually, though, when I wrote about the government restricting the
>bilingual ability of the population, I was talking about the
>native-speaking French population. The government and many of the
>Francophone people of Quebec actually discourage their young people from
>learning to speak fluent English. After all, if bilingual education is
>begun sufficiently early, it is not all that difficult to teach children
>well enough that they can speak two languages fluently. However, the
>Quebec government is not encouraging the education of its Francophone
>population in English, and this is what I mean is a narrow-minded and
>chauvinistic policy. The people seem to be afraid to have their young
>people become truly fluent in English as well as French, as if such
>fluency would result in the abandonment of the French language.
>
>> 
>> >I suppose you think that the restrictions on the language on signs in
>> >Quebec is reasonable, too.
>> 
>> I think it says French cannot be in smaller letters? This leaves room
>> for English when felt necessary, and helps the French not switch to
>> English due to massive English presence in media etc - at least this
>> is how Quebecker visitors usually explain it to us in France. It makes
>> sense to me.
>> 
>The sign law now allows English on signs if French is predominant, I
>believe. I fail to understand, though, why any government anywhere
>should be telling its population what language they use on the signs on
>their storefronts and in their stores. If signs in a primarily
>Chinese-speaking area are all in Chinese characters and not in English,
>so be it. If there is sufficient demand, the signs will be printed in
>more than one language. But I feel strongly that this is an area in
>which the involvement of the government must of necessity be oppressive,
>and what I have seen of the government's sign policy in Quebec (and btw,
>are you aware that they have had *language police* who have the power to
>charge store owners who violate the sign law?), only reinforces my
>opinion.
>
>I believe in bilingualism, but I believe the policy of the government of
>Quebec has not been a policy of bilingualism but a French-only policy.
>They are trying to limit, if not stamp out, the use of English - and
>other languages - in places like parts of Montreal, which have never in
>their entire history been French-speaking. It seems to me that the
>oppression by a minority of another minority is still oppression no
>matter who does it or for what ostensibly noble purpose it is done.
>
>Viszontlatasra,
>
>Johanne
>
>D'accord, Johanne.  When we lived in Montreal, and my younger daughter 
reached 13, there were so-called French-immersion schools.  She finished 
grade 8 in such a school, and then she was supposed to continue in a 
bilingual school, i.e. some subjects in English and some in French.  I 
found this a terrific solution, but it was available only for children 
with English schooling, not vice-versa.

After taht school year we moved to Toronto, where though French was an 
obligatory subject, it was on a much lower level.  I am advocating more 
French teaching in the rest of Canada, but otherwise I am 100% with 
Johanne.

Agnes

W Louw wrote:
> 
> Steve Kiely wrote:
> >
> > Name one (1) country with a racist-free history:
> >
> > 1.Antarctica!
> >
> > Steve Kiely
> > http://www.magna.com.au/~c41

close but no cigar. It is a continent, not a country.

If the population of a country constitutes multirace, how
would you preserve the intergrity of a one group?. Besides what do you
mean by preserving the integrity of a race?.




On Mon, 30 Dec 1996, Jonah Andrianarivo wrote:

> Steve Kiely wrote:
> > 
> > Name one (1) country with a racist-free history:
> > 
> > 1.   N O N E    because each country is created to preserve                
  the integrity of a race.
> 
>                   Is that racist ? 
> 
> 
> Jonah Andrianarivo
> 
>

Hysterical Magyars fail to retract demand aol censor Royko s  Polacks 

Mike Royko is a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for the Chicago
Tribune - Protected by Copyright Law Title 17, U.S. Code

An old pal from Chicago s Northwest Side called and sounded like
he might pop a blood vessel..
 Are you going to do something about that Ann Landers woman?
Are you going to let her have a blast? 
   Of course not. Ann Landers, also known as Eppie Lederer, has
been a close friend for more than 30 years. I don t go around
blasting close friends. Especially when they are as cute as a bug.
    But you know what she said?  Of course I know.  She called the
pope a Polack. A POLACK.  So what? The pope is a Polack.  I
can t believe this. You re part Polish and you can use a slur like
that?  What slur? What do you think? The word Polack.  I don t
consider it a slur, and I m surprised that Polacks and others think
that it is. So once and for all, let us get it straight. If your are truly
Polish, you are a Polack. 
     Who says so?  The Polish language says so. In Poland, the word
for someone who is Polish is Polack. Thus, when Eppie, as we call
her, described the pope as a Polack, she was 100 per cent correct.
    If you went in a bar in Warsaw, hosted a vodka and said:  Here s
to the pope, a really great Polack.  you would get cheerful nods,
especially if you bought the round. Except for unreconstructed
godless commies, the rats.
    That s why I ve never understood someone being offended by a
perfectly valid word. It s not like calling an Italian a wop or a
ginzo, a German a kraut or a heinie, a Frenchman a frog, a Hispanic
a beaner, or other words that were created as slurs by old WASPs
and rival ethnic groups.
    This was explained to me at an early age by Bill Chester, who
used to tend bar at my father s tavern and was the toughest guy I ve
ever known. Bill Chester was born in Poland, and he would thump
his chest, fix Irish Harry with a steely gaze and say:  Oldest
University is Europe is in Krakow. We have university when Irish
wore fur underwear. We conquer most of Russia when Irish wore
fur underwear. I am Polack and proud of it. You want to fight?
    But let us return to my friend Eppie. Most of the angry people
haven t read the article in the New Yorker that caused this flap.
They have heard it on the radio and TV as reported by bubble
headed broadcast boobs who hadn t read it, either.
    So let s get to it. In the article, which was about what a great
babe Eppie is - and she truly is she was giving insightful thumbnail
impression of the famous people she has met. And she has met
many. About Pope John Paul II, the Polish pope, she said:  Looks
like an angel. His eyes are sky blue, and his cheeks are pink and
adorable looking, and he has a sweet sense of humor.
    Now, I ask you, did any of the TV yahoos and radio babblers tell
you about Eppie saying that the pope looks like an angel and has a
sweet sense of humor? Of course not. The broadcast rodents knew
that would not serve their malicious purpose. They zeroed in on the
rest of her quote:  Of course, he s a Polack,: Laughter. They re are
very anti-women. 
   What she obviously meant was that Pole s of the pope s
generation don t always treat women as equals. And she s right.
There are countless Catholic women - Polish and otherwise, nuns
and housewives - who will tell you they aren t nuts about this
Polish pope s attitudes toward women.
    And that is a valid issue, that can be debated. But it is not a
blanket insult of all Polacks. So I would ask my fellow Polacks to
calm down. This lady ain t got a bigoted bone in her trim bod. And
when life gets tough you couldn t ask for a better friend.
    That s from one proud Polack to another.

Source Houston Chronicle, Sunday, Dec. 10 1995

T.
macZugaKausT  cat3wog   A3ce2   NA2OP   R3
http://home.aol.com/WASPnot (WASP's anti-WOG Immigration History)
http://home.aol.com/SalaryPlan (WASP's anti-WOG Glass/Iron Ceiling)
http://members.aol.com/HistoryNOT (History WASPs want to Censor)
http://members.aol.com/WaspWatch (Texaco's Shredded Documents)
http://members.aol.com/UofHKausT ( Big Six SPC Confidential Secrets)

In article >, 
 says...
>
>
>In > 
 (aheringer) wrote:
>
 (Wally Keeler) says...
>|>Mulroney was also a victim of the general asshole-ism of the
>|>Canadian population. One of the things he had right were the
>|>constitutional proposals that would have brought Quebec into
>|>the constitutional fold. 
>|
>|>He was correcting the fatal flaw of Trudeau's "repatriation" of
>|>the constitution, and that flaw was a peculiar USAmerican value
>|>and forsaking the British common law flexibilities. Pity.
>|>Irving Layton was right when he wrote in his poem, "Shine On
>|>Glorious Republic" (referring to the USA) that they (USA)
>|>deserved "grander neighbours than assholes covered in ten
>|>gallon hats."
>|
>|I dont'like to be vulgar, but as far as I am concerned, the
>|asshole is Mulroney and not the Canadian population.  
>
>Consider who freely voted him into office, not once, but twice.
>That is asshole-ism of the general Canadian population. Irving
>Layton had Canadians nailed to a T. "Canadians are a nice people
>-- I can think of nothing else to say against them." These "nice
>people" voted for Mulroney and handed him a decisive democratic
>victory.
>
>|Trudeau is a French-Canadian himself.
>
>Since 1968, except for a brief interlude with Joe Clark, every
>Prime Minister has been a Quebecer. In fact, Joe Clark managed to
>speek fluent French, so it could be said that he also is a
>francophonie. 
>
>|Why would he want to shortchange Quebec?
>
>It was not his intent to do so.
>
>|He was the one who brought in official bilingualism so that
>|Quebecers feel at home everywhere in Canada - it didn't work.  
>
>No it didn't work. It was not what Quebecers wanted. Their prime
>interest was to feel at home in Quebec, not in Canada. Trudeau
>had the misguided idea of imposing his brand of universality on
>the general population, of general equality. He believed in the
>primacy of individual rights, consequently, there could not be
>symetrical rights, or rights peculiar or distinctive to Quebec.
>Thanks to Trudeau, Quebec lost its traditional veto. The rest of
>Canada refused to give this feature back to Quebec on the grounds
>that all provinces are equal. Of course this is the English
>version of equality, not the French version of equality -- and
>since the English is a majority, they rule and Quebec submits.
>Quebec is a chattal, has been a chattal, and wants to break out
>of this confinement. Trudeau liberated nothing -- indeed, he
>confined Quebec.
>
>|Incidentally, when Mordechai Richler was interviewed and asked,
>|"what does Quebec want?" He replied, "more"....
>|Agnes
>
>Yes, the bald-face nerve of those Quebecers wanting more. And why
>shouldn't they.? It's like a housewife approaching her
>husband of umpteen years and telling him that she wants more in
>life, and consequently she wants to go out and get a job, exert
>some independence, etc. She wants more. "But honey, the house is
>wonderful, a pool in the back yard, etc." Sorry hubby, it's not
>enough, I want more. Get it Agnes? You seem to regard the Quebec
>people in the same manner as the Magyars regarded the
>Transylvanian Romanians in pre-Trianon days. Let's Canadianize
>those Quebecers.
>
>Canadians are unable to accept the fact that Canada is a country
>with two nations in it. Two nations. When that fact is accepted
>as fact, then everything else can flow from it. I personally
>oppose seperation. 
>
You are contradicting yourself.  OK, two nations.  Forget the 30-40% 
allophones who are living here and want only to be Canadians, not 
Quebecers, Ontarians, Manitobans, etc., etc.  The two nations should have 
equal rights, one should not be more equal than the other.  
You know, this is all so stupid.  If the lingua franca of the world would 
be, say, German (do you know that English was voted in as the offical 
language over German only by one vote?), we would not have this 
discussion.  
Agnes

Ha esetleg meg egy idegen (tobbe-kevesbe) is befer, szeretnek beszallni 
a tarsalgasba.

Laszlo

You started by attacking the Catholic Church and I asked you
FOR WHOM DO YOU WORK?

Now you are attacking Plato, the same attack to the foundations
of Christian religion. It is no more necessary to ask you for whom
you work. It is easy to see through this CONSPIRACY OF IGNORANCE.
It is THE OPEN SOCIETY, isn't it?

Jack
In article >  (Poetician1) wr
ites:
>|------------------------------------------------------------|
>|o OFICIALDUMB[1] STATEMENT CONCERNING GENERAL POLICY OF    o|
>|o THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF POETRY 250480                    o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o The Peoples Republic of Poetry {PRP}, as its name        o|
>|o indicates, has its historic roots {Origin Ally} in       o|
>|o poetry. Just as the People's Republic of China is often  o|
>|o referred in slangspeak as just China, the PRP is slang-  o|
>|o thinked as Poetry. Its a Peoples Republic in name only;  o|
>|o only in the name of Poetry is it a Peoples Republic.     o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o Poetry has a long and glorious history. There are many   o|
>|o great Poetentates -- Sappho, Catullus, Chaucer, Blake,   o|
>|o Shakespeare, Keats, Dickenson, Eliot, Layton, Ginsberg,  o|
>|o Atwood, bpNichol.[2] The very idea of poetry is as old   o|
>|o as the tongue itself.                                    o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o This poetic history constitutes the entire Bill of       o|
>|o W|Rites upon which the PRP is founded. Just as NIXON,    o|
>|o Richard Milhous[3] sometimes quoted his predecessor,     o|
>|o LINCOLN, Abraham[4], and just as leadershit of other     o|
>|o nations sometimes quote their predecessors, the PRP, in  o|
>|o the name of Poetry, quotes its predecessors. Poetical    o|
>|o history is no less vital than political history.         o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o The following paragraph has been certified by the        o|
>|o Poetburo as a correctful statement of General Policy     o|
>|o concerning the PRP:                                      o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o    The Peoples republic of Poetry is a State of Mind     o|
>|o    oldthinked as imagination {ImageNation}, new-         o|
>|o    thinked as "divergent think procedure." One of        o|
>|o    the great forefathers of Poetry, STEVENS, Wallace,    o|
>|o    illuminates best the divergent think procedure        o|
>|o    concerning this State of Mind, "The final belief      o|
>|o    is to believe in a fiction, which you know to be a    o|
>|o    fiction, there being nothing else. The exquisite      o|
>|o    truth is to know that it is a fiction and that you    o|
>|o    believe in it willingly.[5] Such is the State of      o|
>|o    Affairs which became the Affairs of State of Mind     o|
>|o    in the ImageNation of the Peoples Republic of         o|
>|o    Poetry.[6]                                            o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o The following is the most recent certified correctful    o|
>|o statement of General Policy. It's included here, in      o|
>|o addition to the above, to provide a more GENERAL IDEA[7] o|
>|o of the PRP:                                              o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o    The Peoples Republic of Poetry is basically this;     o|
>|o    a State|meant for Affairs of State within which       o|
>|o    the ImageNation inhabits the role of government       o|
>|o    as it sees the State of Affairs of State. The         o|
>|o    Peoples Republic of Poetry can be expected to do      o|
>|o    what is unexpected across these borders and           o|
>|o    between the lines. The Peoples Republic of Poetry     o|
>|o    is aware of the unlimited nations of this policy      o|
>|o    infer to it our terms of inference and re-act         o|
>|o    accordingly between the lines. Electing this State|   o|
>|o    meant for re-creating sum history as our Origin       o|
>|o    Ally, we can see clear to elect the State|meant       o|
>|o    for Affairs of State of Mind of the ImageNation of    o|
>|o    the Peoples Republic of Poetry.                       o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o The PRP inhabits the role of government as it sees the   o|
>|o State of Affairs of State. It's a State-of-the-Art State o|
>|o of the Arts. Armed with this GENERALized IDEA {con|cept} o|
>|o the PRP can blue-spark into manifest destiny pursuing    o|
>|o its Primary Policy of Poetry Proliferation. It's an      o|
>|o unrelenting ++expansionist policy unrestricted by        o|
>|o oldthink poeticspeak: ie. architexture of sonnets,       o|
>|o stanza constructions, meter configurations, rhyme        o|
>|o schemantras, &c, &c.                                     o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o This isn't to say that these elements have been retired  o|
>|o from the Poetry Front. They still constitute a           o|
>|o formidable force of foot soldiers; however, if any       o|
>|o nation in the contemporary world relied solely and       o|
>|o exclusively on foot soldiers for its power and potency,  o|
>|o it could find itself easily overpowered and defeated by  o|
>|o superior forces which are supplemented by an air force,  o|
>|o a navy, and all the state-of-the-art technological       o|
>|o extensions of power. In this regard the PRP supplements  o|
>|o its foot soldiers with contemporary communications       o|
>|o advances and State-of-the-Art media technology[8] to     o|
>|o blue-spark the power of Poetry Proliferation.            o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o This explicit metaphor of militaristic aggressiveness &  o|
>|o poetentacy should infer in the mind that there are       o|
>|o forces outside the territorial imperative of the PRP     o|
>|o which must be rendered inoperative. These forces are     o|
>|o crimethinked in a single word -- BUREAUCRAP[9].          o|
>|o BUREAUCRAP is the post-nutritive disposal substance of   o|
>|o adult male bovine animals. BUREAUCRAP is the NOSPEAK of  o|
>|o newspeak. BUREAUCRAP is odorless, tasteless, colourless, o|
>|o & lifeless. BUREAUCRAP saturates the airwaves, permeates o|
>|o the news media & sub-verses the ImageNation of the       o|
>|o human mind. The running mutts of BUREAUCRAP must be      o|
>|o deep6d for Ultradisposal.                                o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o The problem of BUREAUCRAP has been with us for centuries o|
>|o & no less was this recognized than by SHELLEY, Percy     o|
>|o Bysshe at the turn of the 1800's, "... if no new poets   o|
>|o should arise to create afresh the associations which     o|
>|o have been thus disorganized, language will be dead to    o|
>|o all the nobler purposes of human intercourse." SHELLEY   o|
>|o declared, "Poetry is the record of the best and happiest o|
>|o moments of the happiest and best minds... These, and     o|
>|o corresponding conditions of being are experienced        o|
>|o principally by those of the most delicate sensibility    o|
>|o and the most enlarged imagination; and the state of mind o|
>|o produced by them is at war with every base desire.[10]   o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o The unrelenting force of BUREAUCRAP has been traced back o|
>|o to "The Republic" where&when Plato recommended that the  o|
>|o ideal society of humans should banish forever its best & o|
>|o happiest minds -- the Poet. That was one of the earliest o|
>|o fulthinked salvos fired in the longest hot|cold, hot|    o|
>|o cold war fulthinked by humankindless. Through all the    o|
>|o millennia, the Poets, stoned on mere sunshine, have      o|
>|o spoken and typed the word, the word of song, love, sex,  o|
>|o living, but they never hesitated to snarl & attack the   o|
>|o slightest incursion into their enjoyments. BLAKE,        o|
>|o William, re-Versed the State of Affairs of State         o|
>|o proposed by Plato & he never feared to name names; "Let  o|
>|o us teach Buonaparte, and whomsoever else it may concern, o|
>|o that it is not Arts that follow and attend upon Empire,  o|
>|o but Empire that attends upon and follows The Arts.[11]   o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o BUREAUCRAP exists in every State of Affairs of State     o|
>|o regardless of govern|mental institutions, bureau|crazy,  o|
>|o con|stitution, or idea|logics. Poetry lives in every     o|
>|o State of Affairs of State regardless of the above, in    o|
>|o the identical manner that a blade of grass shoulders up  o|
>|o through a crack in the sidewalk or a rose that           o|
>|o flourishes in the dungheap[12] of BUREAUCRAP. Poetry     o|
>|o Proliferation has the identical motivation of the rose   o|
>|o -- to expand the territorial imperative of joy.          o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o Politicians can never be expected to Poeticthink.        o|
>|o Politicians are the antithesis of Poeticians.            o|
>|o Politicians expand only the territorial imperative of    o|
>|o impersonal power. Poetry sub-Verses this movement.[13]   o|
>|o Poetry re-Verses this movement. Poeticians have the      o|
>|o Licence to make a politician eat their own words, eg.    o|
>|o mange le merde,[14] & thereby achieve the Poetic Justice o|
>|o Society.[15] May the Farce be with you.                  o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o -------------------------------------------------------- o|
>|o                                                          o|
>|o [1] Coined by 449-450-089.                               o|
>|o [2] Some of the acknowledged legislators of the world of o|
>|o     Poetry.                                              o|
>|o [3] Former President of the United States of Americaca   o|
>|o [4] Former President of the United States of Americaca   o|
>|o [5] From Adagio, Opus Posthumous.                        o|
>|o [6] From OFFICIALDUMB STATE|MEANT 180178, prepared &     o|
>|o     presented to the Royal Commission of Inquiry         o|
>|o     Concerning Certain Activities of the RCMP            o|
>|o [7] General Idea, a three-artist collective consisting   o|
>|o     Felix Partz, George Zontal & A.A. Bronson. The PRP   o|
>|o     modified for its own purposes the genral policy      o|
>|o     statement of General Idea as published in FILE zine  o|
>|o     & The Poet's Encylcopedia ISBN 0-934450-03-X:
>|o     "General Idea is baasically this: A framing device   o|
>|o     within which we inhabit the role of the artist as we o|
>|o     see the living legend. We can be expected to do what o|
>|o     is expected within these bounds. We are aware of the o|
>|o     limitations of this and refer to it as our Frame of  o|
>|o     Reference and act accordingly behind the lines.      o|
>|o     Projecting our roles gives us some perspective to    o|
>|o     start with so we can see clear to project our frames o|
>|o     frame by frame."                                     o|
>|o [8] This includes photography, film, video, computers,   o|
>|o     fax, wire services, radio, &c.                       o|
>|o [9] This includes bureaucratese, politicalese,           o|
>|o     militarese, corporatese, psychologese, sociologese,  o|
>|o     legalese, administrationese, computerese, advertease o|
>|o [10] From SHELLEY, Percy Bysshe's essay, A Defence of    o|
>|o      Poetry, 1821.                                       o|
>|o [11] From Public Address, 1810.                          o|
>|o [12] Post-nutritive disposal substance.                  o|
>|o [13] As in bowel-vowel.                                  o|
>|o [14] Post-nutritive disposal substance.      /\        /\o|
>|o [15] Take off from Pierre Eliot Trudeau /\  /  \/\    /  \|
>|o/\/\    /\  /\/\/\/\  /\/\    /\  /\    /  \/      \/\/    |
>|/    \/\/  \/        \/    \/\/  \/  \/\/
>
>.
>.

Looks like I left you alone too long and you can't live without me. Can't get 
it up again? Tough. You're on your own pubi.

In article >  
(Wally Keeler) writes:

 (Joe Pannon) wrote:
>>Nem hiszem, hogy arra gondolt.
>>Udv,Vobiscum 

>From:  (aheringer)
>=Dehogynem.  Ki masra?  Agnes

>Indeed who else except Poetician1 of the Peoples Republic of
>Poetry -- a Dichtatorship of the Soul.


>Under construction . . .
And in desperate need of it ...
GK

In article >,  says...
>
>I understand that the word Magyar equals Hungarian, but it was also my 
husband's Great 
>Grandmother's maiden name. She was from Hungary. Have you heard of it as 
a last name 
>before?
>
>Thank You,
>
>J. Vasko

Yes.  It is a very-very common name in Hungary, just as "Deutsch" is, 
meaning "German".

Agnes

 wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 02 Jan 1997 14:09:06 -0800, Oaktoad >
> wrote:
> 
> >W Louw wrote:
> >>
> >> Steve Kiely wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Name one (1) country with a racist-free history:
> >> >
> >> > 1.Antarctica!
> >> >
> >> > Steve Kiely
> >> > http://www.magna.com.au/~c41
> >
> >close but no cigar. It is a continent, not a country.
> 
> Yeah, so is Austrialia, but we refer to it as a country.

Antarctica is a continent, but not a country.
Australia is a continent *and* a country.

Antarctica does not have its own government.
Australia has several...  ;-)

"Les plaines abyssales = Abyssal planes": this part of the world is not,
very much, touched by human kind yet!
What do you mean? NON-RACIST COUNTRY!  Are you talking about politics,
governments, constitutions, or just about people like you and me.
If so, I do not know of one yet! 


Steve Kiely > wrote in article
>...
> Name one (1) country with a racist-free history:
> 
> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Kiely
> http://www.magna.com.au/~c41
>

Hello All,

In a dream a strange unknown word appeared to me.
The word is " NOLIGIBLAS ".

Here it is written in Dutch phonetic.
Is there a connection to Hungary and/or Budapest?
Does it mean something in Latin " Noli ... "  (means "not" ..")?

Who knows this word or can help me to find the meaning of it.
Please e-mail it.

Thanks in advance,
Erno van Dam     

In todays' (January 2, 1997) Wall Street Journal, there was a front
page article on Hungary's admission to NATO.  The following is an
extract from the article:

	"The Czech Republic and Poland are also expected to be invited to 
join the alliance when NATO leaders meet in madrid next July.  And
serious consideration is now being given to Romania thanks to the
border treaty and a enw reform-minded government, as well as Slovenia.
	"The treaty also has improved the credibility of NATO and those who 
favor expanding alliance even in the face of Russia's feirce
opposition.  Since the Cold War ended, NATO has been looking for a new
mission.  Stabalizing Central Europe's new democracies and controling
its historical conflics have become its primary new goals -- tasks far
more ambiguous and far less ambitious than its original military one.
	". . . Even more of a question is what happens to aspirants 
who don't get in.  Would Central Europe's current civility last beyond
the Madrid sumit if Hungary makes it into NATO but Romania or Slovakia
(with 600,000 ethnic Hungarians) doesn't?"

	The first thing that I want to mention about this article is that, 
once again, it shows that Elena "the Lair" Danileyana was lieing when
she repeatedly claimed that there would be no difference between the
Iliescu regime and Romania's new democratic government.  We are being
considered for NATO membership exclusively because we threw Iliescu
et. al. out of office. :-)  His race-baiting, and lack of economic and
political reform kept Romania from being considered for NATO
membership.  The democrats' focus on economic and political reform,
and their firm rejection of the chauvenistic politics of the
neo-communists clearly marks an important improv ement in the
country's international image.  Let's not forget that.

	The second thing that I want to point out is that, in the West's 
view, tonning down what seem to them to be silly ethnic disputes is of
vital importance for membership.  This is as true of Hungary as it is
of Romania.  It is therefore very important that we keep working on
that front, for both countries future.  At this point, we can easily
create a correct, if not cordial, relations.  With a little effort on
both countries part, and all of ours, we can move the relationship to
a cordial one.  Let's keep workign in that direction.  It is Hungary's
interest to nurture the development of a friendly, prosperous neighbor
to its east, and it is in Romania's interest to strengthen its only
landbridge to the NATO heartland.

	Finally, we must also remember that this round of NATO expansion, 
while very important must not be last one.  The Estonians, Latvians
and Lithuanians are clearly going to be left out in the cold.  Those
of us whose countries suffered under two generations of Soviet
oppression must not forget that others suffered as well.  The Baltics
are democratic capitalist states completely ready for admission into
NATO.  The only reason that they aren't being considered this time is
because of Russian opposition.  That opposition is fueled by Russia's
continuing imperialist ambitions.

	Countries like Croatia, Bulgaria, Slovakia and rump Yugoslavia just 
haven't progressed far enough to be admitted into NATO yet.  However,
their democratization and integration into Western institutions
remains in all of our interests.  Romania and Hungary, recognizing
their mutual interests in Balkan stability must work hard at limitting
the sort of fraticidal warfare all to common among the South Slavs,
and edge them along towards democratic and economic reform.  failure
to do so will only result in economic and political refugees pouring
across our borders, and increase the chances of gun and drug smuggling
across our borders.

	Likewise, we all need to enorage any reform possible in Belarus, and 
even more so, in Ukraine.  If those countries can be edged towards
stable prosperous democratic free markets, all of Central Europe's
security is enhanced tenfold.

	It is important that we keep pushing for NATO's continued expansion 
until every democratic country that wants to join is admitted.  And,
when that includes Russia, Russia should also be admitted, thus
transforming NATO from an organization to "keep the Americans in, the
Russians out, and the Germans down" to one that will "keep the
Americans in, the Muslim fundamentalists out, and the Russians down."
We will all benefit from this -- especially Russia, which will finally
have chance to become a normal European country.

Happy New Year,
Alexander

I am looking for a gentleman for my mom. She is a 71 yrs old beauty. She
presently lives ouside of Budapest in the town of Dunakeszi. E-mail me

Stephen G. Vasko wrote:
> 
> I understand that the word Magyar equals Hungarian, but it was also my
> husband's Great
> Grandmother's maiden name. She was from Hungary. Have you heard of it
> as a last name
> before?

Well, the minister of culture and education is Magyar Balint.