Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Mocskolodas. (was: ... state of Turkey?) -Hosszu. (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Translation help (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: US Visa Lottery. Details on how to apply. (mind)  201 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Egy kis etimologia (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
5 Pesti iranyitoszam (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
6 To: aheringer (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
7 Looking for UNICUM... (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Ilyen Magyarokkal(?) sohase talalkoztam (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
9 How much is enough? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Kurica/NATO/questions and thoughts (mind)  159 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Poetician1-nek: Nem ertem az uzeneteidet (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: hungarian self distruction (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Translation help (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
14 Positive response, you say? (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
15 Olympics 2000 (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
16 looking for someone to talk to: (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Mocskolodas. (was: ... state of Turkey?) -Hosszu. (mind)  80 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: Mocskolodas. (was: ... state of Turkey?) -Hosszu. (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Felsoszolnok, Hungary Information (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Poetician1-nek: Nem ertem az uzeneteidet (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
21 NATO OSCE WEU THESIS (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: Gustav es Tamas-nak (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: tortenelem (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: Hungarian Names (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
25 Kerdes a Biszmillanak (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
26 psycholinguistics made easy... (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: "Pen-Pals" Magyarorszagon (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
28 vallaszszabadsdag a torok uralom alatt (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
29 Re: Minorities here and there (was...Tornedal-FAQ) - ni (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
30 Pray for the troubled soul of Nick Sandru (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Mocskolodas. (was: ... state of Turkey?) -Hosszu. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 17 Feb 1997 18:12:40 GMT, T. Kocsis > wrote:
>Pentek(feb. 21)  este repulok haza.  Az nem zarja ki, hogy aznap
>meg irjak valamit.  :-)

OK, akkor ezt majd jo lesz fejben tartani.
De azert mielott elmennel elarulhatnad hogy melyik videkrol

>Majd csak akad valami. Az a gond, hogy nincs telefonvonalunk,
>a bunkofonnal meg draga mulatsag. No nem a dijszabas, hanem
>a kompoteres csatlakozo irrealisan magas ara miatt. Raadasul
>komp'terem sincs. 

Talan majd korbeadjuk a kalapot egy gyujtesre itt. ;-)

>Bajban vagyok, tenyleg nem tudok most utananezni. Azonban harminceves
>haborura emlexem, en is meglepodtem a neven, amikor eloszor olvastam.

Nincs valami jo memoriam a szamok megtartasara, de valahogy ez az
1618-48-as idoszak bennem ragadt Wallenstein nevevel egyutt.  Persze
lehet, hogy total rossz az egesz, s valaki majd kijavit.
Valami westfaliai beke is remlik.  Nem az zarta le a 30 eves haborut?

+ - Re: Translation help (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > 
yon.com () writes:
>From:  ()

>  Viszont valoszinuleg tobb olyan magyar szo
>van amire nincs jo angol megfelelo. 


Kb. fe'le'vvel ezelo"tt ke'rdezte valaki, hogy mi a "csakaze'rtis" angol 
megfelelo"je. Azo'ta se kaptunk megolda'st.
+ - Re: US Visa Lottery. Details on how to apply. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Want to apply for the U.S. Visa lottery? Below are the basics details of
how to apply (copied from a DV-98 form). The cost of applying? A piece of
paper, an envelope, a passport-size photograph and enough stampage to reach
the U.S.

Please DO NOT (I repeat DO NOT) reply back to me for further inquiries as I 
just copied the form I received. For enquiries see the end of this note.

Good Luck,


Who Can Apply?

Anyone EXCEPT people born in the following countries:
UK and dependent countries (except for Northern Ireland and Hong Kong), Poland,
Canada, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, EL Salvador, Jamaica, Mexico, China
(including Taiwan), India, The Philippines, South Korea and Vietnam.

It is important to note the eligibility is based on PLACE OF BIRTH rather than
present residence or citizenship.

An applicant can also qualify based on the country of birth of his or her
spouse. A husband and wife can each submit his/her own application.

A person born in a country of which neither parent was native or a resident at
the time of his/her birth may also be able to claim the country of birth of
either parent.

In addition to being born in a qualifying country, applicants must have at 
least a high school education (or its equivalent) or, within the past 5 years,
have two years of work experience in an occupation that requires at least two
years of training or experience. It is not necessary to provide evidence of
educational or work experience level with the original visa lottery application

How To Apply:

No special form is needed to apply for this type of visa and no fee is required
.The procedure is simple enough for peole to apply without assistance from an
attorney or other expert.

On a plain sheet of paper include:

1. Applicant's full name (Last name must be underlined)
   Last name, first name middle name 

   eg Smith, Gillian Anne

2. Applicant's date and place of birth
   Date: Day Month Year
   eg 19 July 1964
   Place: City/Town;District/County/Province;Country
   eg Downpatrick, County Down, Northern Ireland

3. Name and date and place of birth of applicant's spouse and any minor
   children who might also wish to immigrate (Note: If you are selected, your
   unmarried children under 21 years of age and your spouce can apply for 

4. Applicant's mailing address (must be clear and complete, including postal
   code and country); and if possible, a telephone number.
   15 Irish Street
   County Down
   BT30 7HW
   Northern Ireland
   01396 619999

5. Applicant's native country, if different from country of birth.
   Please specify your claim to chargability to another country. For example,
   of you are claiming chargability to Northern Ireland on the basis of your
   spouse's place of birth.

6. Aplicant's photograph.
   A recent, size 1.5"/3.7cm x 1.5"/3.7cm photo, with your name pprinted on the
   back. The photograph should be TAPED to the application with CLEAR TAPE,
   not attached by staples or paper clips which can jam the mail processing

7. Your signature

This information must be sent by regular mail or air mail to one of six postal
addresses in Portsmouth, New Hampshire in the United States. The application
CANNOT be sent to a Consulate or Embassy. Applicants must use the correct
postal zip code designated for their region of birth (see addresses below).
Entries must be mailed in a regular letter or business-size envelope (15-25cm
 x 9-11cm) with the applicant's country of birth, full name, amd mailing 
address (including country) typed or printed clearly in the English alphabet
in the upper left-hand corner of the envelope. Postcards are NOT acceptable.


 | Country of Birth                                                  |
 | Full Name                                                         |
 | Full Postal Address                                               |
 | Country of Residence                                              | 3.5-4.5"
 |                                                                   | 9-11cm
 |                            EUROPE                                 |
 |                            DV-98 Program                          |
 |                            Natioanl Visa Center                   |
 |                            Portsmouth, NH 00212                   |
 |                            U.S.A.                                 |
 |                                                                   |


Entried submitted to the correct address in the correct format abd RECEIVED
BETWEEB NOON ON FEBRUARY 3 AND NOON ON MARCH 5, 1997, will be individually
numbered and entries will be selected at random by computer, regardless of
the dare of receipt during the mail-in period. ENTRIES RECEIVED BEFORE 

Mailing Addresses for Applications

Submit your entry by regular mail or airmail to the address below which matches
the region where you were born. Entries may NOT be sent by express mail, fax,
hand messenger, or any means requiring receipts or special handling.

The list of registration mailing addresses follows. The correct five-digit
postal zip code for the applicant's region of eligibility (place of birth) must
be used.

        EUROPE                          AFRICA
        DV-98 Program                   DV-98 Program
        National Visa Center            National Visa Center
        Portsmouth, NH 00212            Portsmouth, NH 00213
        U.S.A.                          U.S.A

        ASIA                            OCEANIA
        DV-98 Program                   DV-98 Program
        National Visa Center            National Visa Center
        Portsmouth, NH 00210            Portsmouth, NH 00214
        U.S.A.                          U.S.A

        DV-98 Program                   DV-98 Program
        National Visa Center            National Visa Center
        Portsmouth, NH 00211            Portsmouth, NH 00215
        U.S.A.                          U.S.A

How the Winners will be notified

SUCCESSFUL APPLICANTS ONLY WILL BE NOTIFIED during the summer of 1997 at the
mailing address they give in their application. American Consulates and
EMbassies CANNOT supply lists of successful applicants. Instructions for
further action will be included with the notice.

If you are selected, your spouse and unmarried children under the age of 21
years will also be able to apply for visas.

Being selected as a winner in the DV Lottery does not automatically guarantee
being issued a visa, because the number of applicants selected is greater than
the number of immigrant visa available.

How to obtain further information

Information can also be obtained from local embassies or consulates or on
the home page of the U.S. Embassy in London at:


Is it necessary to use an outside attorney or consultant?
> ---------------------------------------------------------

THERE IS NO FEE TO ENTER THE DV-98 PROGRAM. The use of an outside intermediary
or assistance to prepare a DV-98 entry is entirely up to the applicant.
Procedures for entering the lottery can be completed without assistance.
However, if applicants prefer to use outside assistance, that is their choice.
There are legimate attorneys and immigration consultants assisting applicants
for reasonable fees. Unfortunately, there are persons and organizations
charging exhorbitant rates and making unrealistic claims.

The selection of winners is made at random and no outside service can improve
an applicant's chance of being chosen or guarantee an entry will win. Any
service that claims it can improve an applicant's odds would be promising
something it cannot deliver.
+ - Re: Egy kis etimologia (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  says...
>Kosz, Nagymama!
>Es mi van az ipsevel?
>Nem rossz.  Ipse = pasas

 (aheringer) wrote:
>>Nyilvan regi, mert en mufurcnak beceztem a gyerekeimet, de most mar 
>>nagymama vagyok!
+ - Pesti iranyitoszam (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tudna- e valaki segiteni megnezni egy pesti iranyitoszamot?
18.ker Csonta'r u 31.
Valoszinu 118? lesz .  Elore is koszonom, legjobb lenne, ha E-mailen kapnam.

Udv  Imre
+ - To: aheringer (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

To: Agnes Heringer:
    Oszinten szolva nem erdekel, hogy az oseid  zsidok vagy protestansok
voltak.  Tobbszor kifejtettem, hogy a magyarsagnak az az eggyik ereje, hogy
sok nacio gyermekei ossze fortak egy nemzetbe.  Ez azert is fontos mert
tortenelmunk soran pusztotottak a nepunket a tatarok, torokok, nemetek, es
az oroszok.  Kihagyatam valakit?  A tatar dulas utan nagyon mefogytunk.  Jo
lenne ha a Lippaiak Arpad, Almos, vagy Botond unokai lennenek, de nem
hiszem, hogy sok remeny lenne ra.  Azert piritottam rad, mert a torok
hoditassal kapcsolatban, a bevandorolt oseid erdeket a magyarsag erdeken
tobbre tartottad. 
    Ami benunket osszetart az a hazank, nepunk szeretete.   Ez a fontos,
nem az, hogy mi a vallasod vagy a szarmazasod.  Eszre vettem, hogy amikor
nem is ertenek velem eggyet, a FORUM-on es ezen a listan nem vagnak belem
gyulolettel, ugy mint ti a HUNGARY listan.  Azt magyarazd meg, hogy miert
irsz a HUNGARY listan gyulolettel telt leveleket mikozben ezen a listan es
a FORUM-on tartoztatod magad?
    Szerintem ez azert van, mert a HUNGARY listan divatos a magyar
gyulolet, amig ezeken a listakon, ha van is velemeny diffrencia is, a
magyar gyulolet nem fogadhato el.  Tipikus erre a Gustavval valo vitam.  Ha
csipkedem is, tanulok tole, es tisztelem a tudasat.
    Van egy par magyar aki levelezik mindd a harom listan, de a leveleik
szinvonala mindegyiken ugyanolyan targyilagos es tiszta.
+ - Looking for UNICUM... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Would anyone know of a company that sells the spirit called UNICUM and
how to get in touch with them? Either direct order or through a licqueor
store that would ship to Texas. 

Tudna valaki egy vallalatrol amelyik arrulja az UNICUM-ot? Texasban
lakom es szeretnek megrendelni egy vagy ket dobozzal. Mindegy hogy
Amerikaban vagy mashol.

George Hollovary

+ - Re: Ilyen Magyarokkal(?) sohase talalkoztam (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Kedves Istvan!

Koszonom hogy valaszolt a "Today's Trivia Question"-re, es ilyen szepen!
Olvastam ezt a levelet es szeretnek felajalni valamit:  Honlapom egy
resze "Announcements"-ekre van feltartva.  Kerem kuld el nekem a
bizonyos informaciokat a Denveri megunneplesre a "Hungarian Freedom
Park"-ban, es jobban meghirdetjuk.  

Barati Udvozlettel,
Bryan, "HipCat"

Visit my Hungary Page!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/
+ - How much is enough? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

or how many ...

>Free Democrats (SZDSZ), the junior coalition party, has said it is in
>favor of reducing the number of deputies from 386 to 250-300, Nepszava
>reported on 13 February.

I think even that is too many for representing 10 million people.
200 would be about right.

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: Kurica/NATO/questions and thoughts (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Yuri Omelchenko wrote:
>  (Leszek Andrzej Kleczkowski) wrote:
> Hey Leszek:
> The NATO syndrome seems to be the most popular topic in the soc.culture
> groups throughout the whole spectrum of former Warsaw pact members...

	I believe it is in all our countries not just in the soc.c.grs which shows how
 much those countries 
feel the need for a "father" figure, a "saviour"  (that's why they fell pray to
 communism so easily....it was a 
matter of poverty as well or in the first place and of Orthodoxism where God is
 doing things for us and not so 
much like in protestantism and neoprotesatntism where we do things for us). "NA
TO" shows how much the people 
from under communism want protection because right now they are so desoriented.
..They feel that 'POWER", is the 
thing, is good, or, anyway better then what they had and have...Also something 
to believe in, an ideal, the 
only solution that they can see now at the horizon. Can you honestly tell them 
"get stronger" by yourselfs, as 
they should, but it will take a lot longer? They feel more desire for something
 good that is coming from 
somehwere else BECAUSE ITS EASIER...One can understand and sympathize and even 
accept and go along with 
them...What will be the price? Yes, something to look at...

 --- there's no such a thing in
> world politics as compromising one's own interests in favor of
> weaker competitors. Grow up, guys -- look around! The human world is
> pivoting around the axis called balance of power. All this talk of
> supporting democracy is only a well-crafted excuse for Western
> powers to increase their influence anywhere where it can be done without
> inflicting harm upon themselves...

Clearly stated and true, but truth in not operational unless people accept it a
nd learn to proceed  more wisly.
This is what I would like my country and all CEE countries to learn...I would l
ike them to learn to negotiate 
better...You suggest that they are not in a position to negotiate, that they ar
e too weak? Yes, but still they 
should try harder...
> The West expands by taking control of economies of the "assimilated"
> countries -- Central/South America is a good example of how much
> the democracy talk is worth. This is quite reasonable from the
> stronger party's position...Why not? They come (troops, companies),

I think that our countries are in stronger and better position then those in Ce
ntral/South America, but strange 
enough our educated people are not strong voices..Under communism and other his
torical conditions, especially 
Romania, they lost the real "civic voice" and just the political voice of some 
is not enough...

> bring along stability... Do you sincerely believe that all this happens
> at no cost to the "saved"? Well, if you consider losing national dignity
> and control over your own assets a small cost, if it is okay with you -

Such were my thoughts and worries too...I already can see how many important is
sues and needs of my country and 
even in our diaspora are forgetten or take a back seat and everybody is crazy t
hinking NATO...Our ambassador is 
going out to promote only NATO and nothing elese, almost nothing on the economy
 and atracting investments and 
nothing at all on our culture...How long and in what shapes will our cultures s
urvive with no attention and 
support? And how much the American ways(what about the negative ones) will simp
ly be transfered or 
misstransfered along with the new military and economic "occupants"? And how mu
ch their thinking, which is good 
in so many ways and necessary to our countries that are less pragmatic and orga
nized, will penetrate our 
thinking and become "the thinking" to help Palmolive, Procter and Gamble, Coca-
Cola, McDonallad get richer? 
Would such companies donate for local cultural programs and charities? None of 
these donated to Romanian 
orphanages, as far as I know (I hope I am wrong because). Probably a little bit
 when the population will learn 
to ask, but a lot less than they are doing it in the US. That's one of the reas
ons, I guess, why they like 
abroad, isn't it?...Not to be bothered by social responsability...

> is simply pathetic. "We have the right to decide our own destiny" --
> that sounds a joke when you deal with Americans. 
> your own economies... Don't expect it from you new masters.
> Yuri

But,then Yury, WHAT WOULD BE THE ALTERNATIVE???? (On Romania striving for an al
ternative - if it does get into 
NATO in the summer - I heard some talk by the new Foreign Affairs Minister whic
h in my opinion was a good idea, 
but I don't know if he kept pushing for it or he was pushed to silence due to t
he "trent" ALL FOR NATO.

I don't have details and I am not knowledgeble enough to evaluate such complex 
issues, but I don't see how any 
thing better then NATO would happen in the near future! Though what I would lik
e to see, at least for my 
country, Romania, is a gradual NATO admittance that will put pressure on the go
vernment to become more 
efficient, organize it self better and help the poeple to to the same...I would
 like to see more continioning 
and assistance from NATO in the meaning that my people will manage with their h
elp a factory better and not 
that they will by just "managed" for someone's else profit...Is this too social
 So coming back to our issue, is NATO pushing people to become more efficient t
hemselves and to be able to 
decide their destiny or not, or not enough, or what...

Maybe the people will learn to become more active and efficient by competing wi
th the "foreigners" as well as 
take a stand for their own values if confronted with "foreigners" that will do 
well in their own country! I do 
trust that our many centuries old heritages and good system of education (are t
hey still as good as they were?) 
 will prohibit them to get engoulfed and will be the support for a posivite int
egration of the Wstern/American 
capitalism towards a succesful CEE centrist capitalism. When it comes to Romani
a, that will also depend on how 
effeicient they could get in cutting on corruption and learning to cooperate an
d stck together.

But then, what do we do, the CEE-Americans? Do we help them to learn that? THIS
ORGANIZATION IS VERY INTERESTED IN : How are our diasporas and ethinc experts o
f those countries helping, 
advising? What are the institutions that encourage them and what are the nation
al strategies of the CEE 
countries when it comes to their US diasporas? What are in fact the relationshi
ps? What are the successes, the 
problems, the commun issues for all and the differences from a country and its 
diaspora to the others? Are 
there any advisers who helped the CE countries and now could help the EE ones, 

(We are interested to locate some specialists in the topics of Promotion of the
 economy and investments in the 
US and The Relationship between Romania and its  diaspora, including the role a
nd the should be performance of 
the embassy(After 7 years there is no policy, strategy and even the new governm
ent who got votes and support 
from many of us in the US does not employ or consult officially with experts an
d able and dedicated people from 
our diaspora).

Rodica Perciali, Romanian Museum and the Romanian-American League Project

> >
> >
> >
> >
+ - Re: Poetician1-nek: Nem ertem az uzeneteidet (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, The Hypocrite Wally Keeler wrote:

> In >, 
>  the unpoetic Goober Barfsays...
> >In article >, The Hypocrite Wally Keeler 
> >wrote:
> >>>maybe you should take care of your own hypocrisy and prejudices? 
> >> 
> >>Why, when I have you doing it for free, and without benefits.
> >> 
> >>>Come on Wally, give it a try. 
> >> 
> >>Not worth the effort.
> >
> >You're right - 
> It's boring to continually repeatrepeatrepeatrepeatretreatrepeatrepeat..., 
> but yes, I am right, again.

On the contrary. You're usually out of your senses, but in this case,
you're right. 

> >why bother with learning when ignorance comes instantaneously to you? 
> And just as easily slips off my teflon character.


+ - Re: hungarian self distruction (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 17 Feb 1997 01:12:13 GMT,  > wrote:
>Is this cryptic message from Ashtar 7 in the Sirius Sector?
>Or is just a case of someone having a bad trip?

Oh, I think that he was just "distructed."

+ - Re: Translation help (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

<<Kb. fe'le'vvel ezelo"tt ke'rdezte valaki, hogy mi a "csakaze'rtis" angol

megfelelo"je. Azo'ta se kaptunk megolda'st.

I would say "just so" if the reader is frendly or "I will show you,
whatever you think" if (s)he is unfriendly.

laszlo kiss
+ - Positive response, you say? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

From the VOA report:

>intro:  there has been a positive international response to the 
>tough economic reform measures unveiled monday by romania's new 
>center-right government.  v-o-a's barry wood has more.
>text:  the international monetary fund wasted no time in  
>enthusiastically endorsing the tough and ambitious reforms 
>announced in bucharest by prime minister victor ciorbea. 

IMF's "positive response" is almost garanteed to evoke a negative
response from the people affected by those economic measures.
Unless the government can make it short, they will be thrown out
of office before their term runs out.  Then the commies will be voted
back again.  Sounds familiar? 

+ - Olympics 2000 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi everybody,

I live in Sydney, home of the Olympic Games in 2000.  All my friends
and releatives in Hungary are interested to know how are the works
progressing.  I am glad to say that construction is on programme I am
not sure if it is under budget.  Some people worreid about moving
people around.  I will visit the site soon and let you know what's

Bye for now
+ - looking for someone to talk to: (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


E'n Hooper Pe'ter vagyok.  Amerikai katona vagyok.  Tanulok magyarul
Washington D.C.-ben.  Keresek egy magyar la'ny vagy fiu' tizenhetto'l -
huszonegyig besze'lgetni.  Szeretek besze'lgetni valakinek.
+ - Re: Mocskolodas. (was: ... state of Turkey?) -Hosszu. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Gustav Horvath,
>T. Kocsis > writes:
>>Nem vagyok meggyozodve arrol, hogy a magyar 'kereszteny' a kereszt szobol
>>gond ele allithatta az oseinket, es a szo keresztte alakult at.

>Nem erosbiti ezt az elmeletet az hogy a szintugy  massalhangzo torlodassal 
>rendelkezo KRISZTUS nevet nem kellett megvaltoztani. 

A szobajoheto nepeknel, akiktol atvehettuk a szot, a 'keresztenyseg' nem a
keresztbol hanem Krisztus nevebol szarmazik. Azert hoztam fel a gorog val-
tozatot, mert ez volt az *elso* hivatalos kereszteny kapcsolatunk. A
keresztenyseg felvetelenek szandeka nagyon komoly volt. Az elso magyar
apacarend (Szentgyorgyvolgyi ?) alapitolevele,  ugye, me'g gorogul

>>Amikor a vandalok befizettek egy romai tarsasutazasra (455) Roma mar
>>javaban kereszteny volt. A Nemet-romai Birodalom a kereszteny Romai
>>Birodalmon epult fel

>Mitol lett akkor NEMET-romai ?

Eloszor volt a Frank birodalom. Itt ingatag labakon allok, nem sok mindent
olvastam efelol, de Eszak-Italia az orokosodes miatt kettehasadt Frank bi-
rodalom germanabb reszehez kerult. 

>Ezt a hamis magyarazot ismerem. Ellent mondani latszik ennek, hogy az a Kronik
>beli miniaturan amelyen Aba Samuel vesztes csataja (1044) van megorokitve egy 
>eltort nyelu  (vereseget szimbolizalo) NEGY VOROS SAV-ot (es semmi egyebet) 
>mutato MAGYAR ZASZLO-t lathatunk, fellete magasodik a gyozedelmeskedo nemetek 
>sasos zaszlaja.

Ez az erv akkor lenne elfogadhato, ha a Kronika 1044-bol szarmazna.
Csakhogy ez nincsen igy, joval kesobbre datalodik. Nyilvan a harcosok
sem az 1044-es, hane ma Kronika koranak,  harci viseleteben vannak

>>A kettos kereszt a legregebbi elem a magyar cimerben.
>En nem a cimerrol beszeltem, hanem magyar jelkepekrol. 

Ebben az esetben ez egy es ugyanaz. Nem volt meg cimeruk, de a keresztet
mar hasznaltak a kiralyaink, *nem* vallasi, hanem hatalmi szimbolumkent.

>Nem hagynam szamitason kivul a judaista vallasra tert kazarok behatasat sem..
>Ez lehet a magyarazata annak hogy a magyar nyelv nem a nyugatrol terjedt Jew, 
>Jude etc. kifejezeseket hasznalja hanem a keleti-szlav zsido kifejezest. 
>Bovebben lasd Kostler Artur idevonatkozo konyvet.

Nem ertek egyet Kostlerrel. Az arab forrasok a Kazar Birodalom fovarosanak
leirasakor kulon kezelik a sztyeppei torzseket. Az o ugyeikben kulon biro
dont, kulon tobb birojuk van a mohamedanoknak, es kulon a zsidoknak. Zsido
csupan a rendkivul szuk varosi kazar uralkodoreteg, es bevandorlo zsido
lasu kereskedok, iparosok. A varos tulnyomoreszet mohamedan (templomok
szama utal erre peldaul) A kabarok egyebkent sem eltek a varosban, ahova a
zsido vallas koncentralodott. Nyilvan a torzs politikai vezetoi
felve(he)ttek a zsido vallast, de ez a kabar tomegekre nem volt
Ha kesobb a magyarokhoz csapodtak, az azt jelenti, hogy a kabar szallashe-
lyek a magyarok mellett/kozeleben voltak, ismertek a torzsek egymast. A
magyar szallashelyek viszont *nyugaton* voltak, jo mesze a kazar fovaros-

Ideirom, nehogy megint veszekedes legyen belole, mint multkor:  nem
a zsidok karpatmedencei jelenletet tagadom, hiszen az elozo levelemben
eppen azt irtam, hogy mar a magyarok elott is el(het)tek itt zsidok a
birodalom kereskedo/hatarvarosaiban. De szerintem  a zsido vallasu kabar-
sag badarsag.  :-)

>Nem akarod ezzel azt mondani, hogy a turkok a romaiaktol "tanultak" volna 
>mindezt ? [Csecsen eredetlegenda]

Szerintem semmi koze a kettonek (a hasonlosagon kivul) egymashoz.

+ - Re: Mocskolodas. (was: ... state of Turkey?) -Hosszu. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > ,
>Hat akkor nem tudom honna eredenek azok a legendak a gyaurok irtasarol
>es rabszolgasagba hurcolasarol.  Ugy latszik csak a keresztenyeket
>utaltak az "igazhituek".

A nagy neppusztulas elso resze  a haboru kezdeten tortent, mert a
torokok is alkalmaztak a regi turk hagyomanyt, a meg nem tort
ellenseg demoralizalasat pusztitassal, rablassal.

Az igazan nagy verveszteseg a 30 eves haboru alatt tortent. Akkor
urult ki az Alfold. Ennek oka egyreszt a folyamatos haboru volt, ami
lehetetetlenne tette a mezogazdasagi termelest, a keresekedelmet.
A masik ok az volt, hogy a torok hadvezetes a evekig huzodo haboru
miatt Magyarorszag teruleten teleltette at a krimi tatar segedero-
ket.  Ezek rendkivul brutalisak voltak, es tenyleg megyenyi teruletek
lakossagat irtottak ki pusztan szorakozasbol. De nem kellett felteni
a nemet sereget, -sot a magyar vegvari vitezek ,ha zsoldot nem kap-
tak, pont olyan brutalisak tudtak lenni, ugyanugy raboltak, mint az

Miutan kialakult a status quo es vegetert a haboru, a torok altal
megszallt teruleten szabadabb volt az elet, mint a kiraly birto-
kolta reszeken.  Peldaul neves magyar reformatus teologusok eltek
es publikaltak a torok uralom alatt, es ha jol emlekszem, meg ko-
moly reformatus hitvitak is folytak nemzetkozi (!!) vendegekkel . 
(Hivatkozast nem tudok megadni, ma reggel csomagoltam ossze
es kuldtem haza Magyarorszagra az osszes konyvemet.)

+ - Re: Felsoszolnok, Hungary Information (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

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Felsoszolnok and Alsoszolnok are located a few miles from Szent Gothard.
The population is probably 80% Vend which is a Slavic tribe, that was
settled there by one of the Hungarian Kings to guard the borders.Can not
remember which but in anycase it was centuries ago. I escaped from
Hungary in 1949 thru Felsoszolnok. Recently I went there to find the
Family who helped us to cross the border. The family name was Mukics. To
my amazemant I found out that almost every second person in the village
is named Mukics and lot of the people there speak broken hungarian. Hope
this helps some.

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<DT>Felsoszolnok and Alsoszolnok are located a few miles from Szent Gothard.
The population is probably 80% Vend which is a Slavic tribe, that was settled
there by one of the Hungarian Kings to guard the borders.Can not remember
which but in anycase it was centuries ago. I escaped from Hungary in 1949
thru Felsoszolnok. Recently I went there to find the Family who helped
us to cross the border. The family name was Mukics. To my amazemant I found
out that almost every second person in the village is named Mukics and
lot of the people there speak broken hungarian. Hope this helps some.</DT>

+ - Re: Poetician1-nek: Nem ertem az uzeneteidet (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, The Hypocrite Wally Keeler wrote:

> In >, 
>  the unpoetic Goober Barfsays...
> >In article >, The Hypocrite Wally Keeler 
> >wrote:
> >>>maybe you should take care of your own hypocrisy and prejudices? 
> >> 
> >>Why, when I have you doing it for free, and without benefits.
> >> 
> >>>Come on Wally, give it a try. 
> >> 
> >>Not worth the effort.
> >
> >You're right - 
> It's boring to continually repeatrepeatrepeatrepeatretreatrepeatrepeat..., 
> but yes, I am right, again.

On the contrary. You're usually out of your senses, but in this case,
you're right. 

> >why bother with learning when ignorance comes instantaneously to you? 
> And just as easily slips off my teflon character.


+ - NATO OSCE WEU THESIS (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Hello,
> I'm a frenchman and i'm preparing  a doctorat in political sciences.
> The subject is : What defence(or security) system for eastern europe 
> countries:NATO,OSCE,WEU or  a new system  more adapted?
> I need informations  about these organisations and also,and mainly, about

> eastern european countries:military,geopolicy,geostrategy,
> socioeconomy,etc.....
> If same studies  are in progress or have been already done  ,you would be
> very pleased to tell me about them or to send me if it's possible.
> Thank you so much  for your help.
> Pierre-Louis  LAVIE de RANDE
> 18,Rue de l' ORIENT
> 31000 TOULOUSE
+ - Re: Gustav es Tamas-nak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 18 Feb 1997 12:41:20 GMT, T. Kocsis > wrote:
>Hat igen ! A harminceves haborut el kell osztani kettovel,
>ugyanis a tizenoteves haborulok van szo.

A tobbi stimmel? ;-)

>Nezzunk akkor adatokat Somogy megye lakottsagarol az akkori
>tarto Hivatal adonyilvantartasabol:-) kulonos tekintettel az itt elo
>   datum                portak szama
>XV.sz.torok elott       11000 (ez 50-70ezer fonek felel meg)
>1534                     7300 (2800 ebbol lakatlan, megjottek a torokok)
>1546                     1239
>1596                      193 (dul a 15 eves haboru)
>1598                       99 ( meg mindig dul a 15 eves haboru)
>1622                      235
>1671                      106

Hat ezek a szamok tobbet mondanak minden masnal!  S gondolom ez a trend
eleg tipikus volt azokon a videkeken ahol renszeresen vonultak at a
hadak.  Trianonnak is igazan ez az oka. 

+ - Re: tortenelem (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 18 Feb 97 16:16:27 GMT, Gustav Horvath > wrote:
>>a nemetek azon igyekezetet, hogy huberest csinaljanak MO-bol.
>Mit szolna Tiborc batyank ehhez?

Ja kerlek, ha Istvan sejtette volna mi lesz par szaz ev mulva Tiborccal
es tarsaival  ...

+ - Re: Hungarian Names (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Ildikó, Timea, Zita, Zsuzsa, Zsuzsanna, Hajnalka, Éva, Márta, Erzsébet,
Beáta, Orsolya (Orsi)...

"Zs" pronounced like Zsa Zsa Gabor.  If you want more pronunciation
help, let me know - and good luck!!!

Best wishes to your "expanding" family!

Visit my homepage!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/
+ - Kerdes a Biszmillanak (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

    Mikor fogja valaki azt mondani, hogy a kommunistak egy gyonyoru
Budapest-i templomot nem romboltak le es annak helyere nem epitetek egy
hatalmas szobrot Sztalin-nak?

Biszmilla vagy  Sam miert nem valaszolsz a kerdesemre:

"Mi tortent volna, ha egy csoport magyar nyilvanos helyen enekelte volna a
Himnuszt a Rakosi idelye alatt?"

Ez a kerdes.  

Az, hogy a jo idulatu hazafias tanarok mit tanitottak az egy masik kerdes. 
A mi teknikumi tanarjaink is belenk neveltek a hazaszeretet.  Ezert sokszor
bajba is kerultek  Egy Ivan nevu mocskos kolok be is kopte oket.

+ - psycholinguistics made easy... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

to:bb fe'le'n lehet ke'rdezni, leg ko:nyebben: miert van az hogy magyar 
nyelvben az "i-e" hang ko:zelt jelent, s az "a-o-u" hang mesze'bb van.
pld: itt-ott, ide-oda, ez-az, ere-ara, stb... 
ugyanaz, ma's vonalon: szep-rossz-szornyu, igen-nem, egyenes-go:rbe
me'g ma's: e'lvez-undor, keres-u:ldo:z, isten-o:rdo:g

re'g e'rdekel. soha nem tala'ltam ere jo' va'laszt, ha csak nem hang
fe'le intona'cios/fanta'zia't korea/japan fe'le kapcsolatban.

nyelvtanban van ilyen szaba'j, de sajnos nem e'rtem...

veleme'nyek e'rdekelne'nek...

ha't egy lista "jo" szavak mely "a-o-u" val mukodnek... :)



+ - Re: "Pen-Pals" Magyarorszagon (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 18 Feb 1997 06:34:13 GMT, MDtoCEO > wrote:
>Scott, I would also like to know why Hungary is such a favorite of yours. 
>I went there for the first time at 19 years of age, and it had dominated
>my life since -- so I don't blame you for your attitude.
>Just curious.

I am curious, too.  What prompted you to go to Hungary at age 19 and
what happened there to make such an impression on you, Kristof?

+ - vallaszszabadsdag a torok uralom alatt (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Nem tudom hanyan latogattak a magyar kozepkori templomokat a mai
Magyaroszagon. A felvideken nagyon szep szammal vannak Matyas korabeli
vagy korabbi templomok, a torok altal megszallt teruleteken csak elvetve.
Ha jol tudom a Matyas Templom is mecset volt a megszallas alatt, nyilvan 
a vallaszszabadsag neveben. Tud valaki olyna templomrol, ami a torok
megszallas alatt epult, es meg ma is megvan?

A torok nem kulonboztette a az Europai vallasokat. Valahogy ugy viszonyult
a birka nephez: raboljuk ki oket, ha elpusztulnak az se baj. A torok altal
megszallt teruleten 2,000,000 ember halt ki, ahogy emlekszem ezt is irja a
Homan Szekfu (1948-ban olvastam, elnezest kerek ha rosszul emlekszem).

laszlo kiss
+ - Re: Minorities here and there (was...Tornedal-FAQ) - ni (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Igor GAZDIK ) wrote:
: #In article >, 
:  says...
: #>
: #>Gustav Horvath > wrote 
: #>> You are right. Nobody want's Austria back.
: #>> Gusztav
: #>
: #>Meg kene pofoznom magam, hogy ebren vagyok e!  Gusztavval eggyet ertek!
: #>Istvan
: #

: 	the writer whose name is above is really testing our nerves
: 	and intellects by expecting everybody to understand ciganul.
: 	would not keeping it in the madar section be more than           
:         sufficient?

  I have to agree. He may be inclined to slap himself ("Meg kene pofoznom 
magam, hogy ebren vagyok e!") but I'm sure he wouldn't have to look far 
for some help in that endeavor.


Andrew March
University of Pennsylvania
+ - Pray for the troubled soul of Nick Sandru (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Below is the best prayer to say twice a day for the troubled soul, Gypsy,
sex addict, pedophile, sodomist, and homosexual Nick Sandru, who posts here
from bogus internet addresses, such as ns.sandes.dk, via aberrant internet
service providers, such as ns.cybercity.dk <vip.cybercity.dk>:

God, Thank you for blessing Nick Sandru with every good and perfect gift.
In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.