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1 == Hungarian Lobby Digest == Jan/04/95 == (mind)  903 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)

+ - == Hungarian Lobby Digest == Jan/04/95 == (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

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o From: "Peter A. Soltesz" >
  Subject: Re: East European lobbying groups

o From: John Czifra >
  Subject: Re: Funar bacsi does it again!!!

o From: 
  Subject: Dudapest Week

o From: Tony and Celia Becker >
  Subject: Re: HL Thanks and Status

o From: John Czifra >
  Subject: Re: Funar bacsi does it again!!!

o From: John Czifra >
  Subject: Fax letter to Michal Kovac!!!

o From: Tony and Celia Becker >
  Subject: Re: East European lobbying groups

o From: 
  Subject: Slovakia's Language Laws

o From: Tony and Celia Becker >
  Subject: Re: East European lobbying groups

> =============================================================================
From: "Peter A. Soltesz" >
Subject: Re: East European lobbying groups
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please do not forget the Hungarian American Coalition which is involved
in Hungarian affairs and issues related to Hungarians.
They are located in Cleveland and also have a
Washington DC office at:
818 Connecticut Avenue,NW,  Suite 850
Washington, DC 20006

Thank You.
Peter Soltesz

> =============================================================================
From: John Czifra >
Subject: Re: Funar bacsi does it again!!!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: John_Czifra @ SHI.COM (John Czifra) @ Internet
cc:  (bcc: John Czifra/SHI)
>From: etxpkba @ tn.ericsson.se (Patrik Belina) @ Internet @ WORLDCOM
Date: 01/04/96 03:00:40 PM CST
Subject: Re: Funar bacsi does it again!!!

Hi John,

thought You would be interested in some information concerning
Amnesty International:

Personal Contact (email) : 

Postal Address:            Amnesty International UK
                           99-119 Rosebery Avenue
                           London ECIR 4RE

Tel:                       +44 - (0) 171 814 6200

Fax:                       +44 - (0) 171 833 1510

URL:                       http://www.oneworld.org/amnesty/

Best Regards,

     Patrik Belina

> =============================================================================
Subject: Dudapest Week
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Colleagues,

Yesterday, I spent some three hours with Mr. Christopher Condon, the editor
of Budapest week, a well established, 5-years old, English language weekly.
He is an intelligent, well informed, and caring young man, who noticed our
work on the Internet, and wanted to know more. He sees the potential that we
will make a contibution in the restoration of Hungary through coordinated and
responsible lobbying action.

When we discussed our past actions, successes and failures and when we talked
about the background of the 136 founders of the hl-list, he was suprised that
we have only a dozen participants from Hungary and that we did not stage a
single action to influence Hungarian government policy. It seems to me that
these observations are valid and we should try to correct them. Your help in
increasing our membership in the Carpathian basin and your suggestions on how
we might also play a constructive role in influencing the acts of the Hungian
government would be more than welcome.

I am particularly hopeful that the HL participants from Hungary will give us
advice on how to go about this and will also provide us with the needed

Best regards: Bela Liptak

> =============================================================================
From: Tony and Celia Becker >
Subject: Re: HL Thanks and Status
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 04:34 PM 12/30/95 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear Colleagues,
>1) I would like to express our thanks to Gotthard Saghi-Szabo, Arpad Fabian
>Kovacs and Zsolt Nagy for their setting up and maintaining the HL list. Let
>us hope that it will become an effective tool to serve justice, tolerance and
>enlightenment in the
>coming years. Thanks to Gotthard, Arpad and Zsolt for making this effort
>2) I would like to ask all of you to help in increasing the HL subscriber
>list (the original membership is 136), by making our existence known not only
>to your friend, but also through your friends and contacts at our the
>newspapers, radio and TV programs. To sign up, all you have to do is to
>address an e-mail to:

> leave the subject and copy areas
>empty and write in the message text area: subscribe hl (write in your e-mail
>3) I am glad to report that the HL members in Asia have also been active: The
>United Daily News of Taivan has published a major report on the language
>police in Slovakia. The title was: "Now Also Exiled From Their Language."
>4) I would also like to quote a few sentences from the letter of Congressman
>Dan Schafer, addressed to Eugene Megyesy:
>        "Thank you for contacting me regarding the new law in Slovakia
>limiting the
>use of minority languages in that country...I share your concerns over ethnic
>intolerance, especially in a part of the world so near to the Balkans, which
>has seen more than their share of suffering...Please be assured that if
>Congress deals with any legistlation on this matter, I will be sure to keep
>your comments in mind..."

Stop, right here. Do you really understand what that weasel Schafer is
really saying and doing?

He hasn't promised you anything substantial; he isn't taking the lead; he
doesn't have any interest in writing, or cosponsoring any legislation on
this subject.  However, he will certainly tote out his letter to you in
November as "proof of his concern for minority rights."  Awww, how nice, and
all.  It's easy to say--you have my sympathy--and support for something that
someone else might do or lead in the way of action.  Real commitment is
doing something substantial one's self.  Schafer has offered _no_ real
commitment to the Hungarians.

We can't allow ourselves to be fooled.   The stakes--people's lives--are too
high.  We need to be tough, and not give the government officials a chance
to do nothing.  All letters in the future should be worded, "will you write
and sponsor legislation to..."

We also need to express general types of previously practiced sanctions
against countries like Slovakia, that the U.S. has
applied--successfully--elsewhere (e.g. South Africa).  If we do not make it
rather specific what we want done to encourage these genocidal maniacs
around the world to change, Congress and the Administration will do nothing.

Trust me, the Chinese Democracy Movement in 1989 initially fell into the
same trap for a few months.  Then they got smarter--with a lot of help from
people who didn't grow up in a communist country and have spent at least 10
years living and working with all the realities in the U.S..  I hope my
fellow Hungarians would prefer to avoid repeating those earlier wasted
efforts (not to mention, time, money, etc.)--and heartaches.

>        Congressman Schafer makes two important points, which we could use in
>our letters to all Senators and Congressman: 1) We don't want the ethnic
>intolerance of the Balkans to spread and therefore it is IN THE INTEREST OF
>THE UNITED STATES to speak up against such steps as the establiishment of the
> language police. 2) There is a willingness in Congress to pass legistlation
>to protect
>the rights of national communities, and THEREFORE WE SHOULD ASK OUR
>REPRESENTATIVES to introduce such legistlation.

See what I wrote at the end of Congressman Schafer's letter.  The
willingness is only there if we can persuade Congress that without
legislation that requires the U.S.government to apply specific sanctions
with good precedent against the various governments _all_ violating minority
rights--on the basis of hordes of unwanted refugees/immigrants either
disrupting countries in East Central Europe where there are now billions of
dollars in U.S. investments whose shareholders still have not received all
their anticipated ROI's, and/or said refugees/immigrants who will come to
the U.S..  This also has to be accompanied by the reminders of how hot the
immigration and refugee topics issues still are in key, large, electoral
states like California, Texas, and Florida.  Even if particular legislators
don't live in these states, they're only going to pass legislation of any
kind with legislators from these states--especially if any of it has to
override a veto from any party's President.

>5) I am leaving shortly to visit The Hague in connection with the
>environmental disaster on the  Danube. It would be helpful, if prior to my
>arrival, the court received some
>fax-es indicating that a Compromise Plan does exist for the returning of
>the Danube into its natural river-bed and that plan is known around the world
>and is
>supported by many. If you would like to help in my receiving a hearing and
>having an opportunity to describe the plan, you can send a fax to Arthur Th.
>Witteveen, Secretary of the Court in charge of information matters,
>International Court of Justice: 011-31-070-364-9928
>6) As many on our list are not of Hungarian origin and also because many do
>not reside in North America, the interests and goals of  the HL list is not
>limited either to Hungarian or Hungarian-American goals. We hope to infuence
>the public opinion world-wide and our interest is not limited to help our
>countryman, but in assisting in the evolution of a better life for all in
>Central Europe.
>Happy New Year, Bela Liptak
>Hear, hear! (Or READ, READ!).  Sure, we have 1.6 million potential voters.
But consider what that is in relation to 15 million voters all of East
Central European descent, or 35 million Celtic American voters of the
well-organized predominantly Scottish and Scot-Irish south, or 18 million
Latin American voters.  Even though our issues may not themselves compete
with those of these other large blocs, we are too often competing with them
for the priorities of government time and effort.  We need to recognize some
commonalities with these larger groups that can--and do--involve both our
issues and theirs and work together with them, supporting one another.

What we are looking at in the matter of oppression of Hungarian
minorities--and Hungary as a country in comparison with the respect and
influence accorded to many of its neighbors by the "world order under the
existing acknowledged powers"--is the direct result of both English, French,
German and Russian competition to colonize East Central Europe, and racism
and ethno-centrism as well.  Hungarians aren't any more Europeans than most
Mexicans are pure Spanish descendants.  We are Eurasian, and always have
been.  We are more easily identified as non-European because our very
language has no close relationship to any Indo-European language.  One who
has studied Latin or any "Romance" language, and a little of German, Gaelic,
or Russian can pretty easily identify the same "root words" in more than a
dozen languages of Europe, and even forms of grammar and verb conjugation.
You can't use what you've learned from any Indo-European languages and apply
any aspect to any degree of significance to Hungarian.

We have two "realities" that we must confront if we are to be successful;
what we think of ourselves--and how others perceive us.  If we are asking
others to do something for us, guess which perception is more important.

This is not to say to "accept" others perceptions.  Just be aware of them
and ready to confront them positively.  Re-educate them to have a factual,
favorable new perception--that makes it easier for them to do something for
us.  Teach them the real history and archeology of Hungary and the
Sumerian-Magyars; as the mother of all modern civilization East and West.
Teach them we did _not_ start World War I and that by allowing Hungary's
neighbors to get away with what they have, and not demanding that they pay
restitution for illegally appropriated lands (by the standards set in the
Versailles treaty) and war reparations, and the like, they are continuing
this injustice toward Hungarians--much as if they had continued in this
country to maintain segregation of blacks, internment of Japanese Americans,
and genocide against Native Americans to the present.

The injustices of the United States--and its chosen allies, did not, and
still do not, stop at the U.S. borders.  If the members of Congress and the
administration want to really convince people--especially minorities--in
this country that they are no longer racist and ethnocentric, they darned
well better change what their doing outside of this country--especially in
highly literate, outspoken, and mobile East Central Europe.  A true
commitment to the maximum opportunities for equality, liberty and fraternity
for all people means consistency in what is practiced both in the U.S. and
in every other country.  Sorry, but in my book, most Congresspersons--and
administration officials are still racist and ethnocentric.

Look at it from another, more personal perspective.  The first generation
Hungarians in this lobby group grew up in Hungary under conditions set by
this very racism and ethnocentrism and colonialist implementation.  This is
what sent you to the U.S..  Are you any different a person, any more worthy
of being treated with dignity and respect just because you now live in the
U.S. and not Hungary?  Do you think your feelings are likely to be any
different than those of Guatemalans, Mexicans, El Salvadorans, Chinese,
Vietnamese, Africans who are fleeing (or have fled) countries who are
suffering in large part due to the impositions and manipulations of what are
still ethnocentric colonialists in the leading financial-industrial
nations--who have the most werewithal to invest, pay for political
campaigns--and armies, etc., etc.?

So, ok; instead of feeling small, miserable, disenfranchised, and
frustrated, let's out-capitalize the ethnocentric, colonialist capitalists
(please, not all capitalists are ethnocentric and colonialist--the lousy
ones just happen to be more active and better organized at the  moment) by
capitalizing on the combined human resources of all the minorities who
individually feel, small, isolated, miserable, disenfranchised and
frustrated.  To update an old, but very true, saying: "more votes and
campaign contributions make lighter, faster work."

To answer where do you find these other active groups?  Look through the Web
and the Usenet BBS's. You'll find some groups in the Usenet under ethnic
groups listed in "soc.culture.talk," and "soc.politics.talk."  Read the
local, large English-language newspapers in your area.  When you spot an
article that mentions an active group, if you can't find the group in the
telephone book (and the paper doesn't mention how to contact the group) call
up the newspaper, and talk to the writer of the article.  Trust me, nearly
100% of the time they do have the telephone numbers, addresses, etc..  Look
in the yellow pages too, under associations, organizations, etc.  They're
there--and far more than what's computer literate and equipped.  We need
both the computerized and the non for a real war on racism and
ethnocentrism--the heart of this latest "hydra."  Now, are we going after
the heart of the hydra or are we going to keep trying to lop off individual
heads and hope they don't either grow back or proliferate?

Since this was supposed to be primarily a response to a particular message
of Bela, I'm going to save my next "how to achieve major governmental
influence;" subheaded: "through elections" for the next letter which I hope
to complete later today.  Yes, I'm going to tell you just how to get inside
the two major political parties and influence platforms--and individual
candidates; for both the "caucus-style" and non-caucus states.  You will
have to begin within the next month if you are to be successful in achieving
significant influence in the 1996 elections, so please watch for this letter.

Thank you for your attention.

Cecilia L. Fa'bos-Becker
3273 B Rocky Water Lane, San Jose, CA, USA 95148
tel. and fax: 408-223-6102

N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA

> =============================================================================
From: John Czifra >
Subject: Re: Funar bacsi does it again!!!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Szia haverok,

 I hope the Amnesty International e-mail address will help. If we can get them
to back us then we're in. Also, on weekends there's a program on PBS (Right and
Wrong, I think) sponsored or actually produced by Amnesty International that
focuses on human rights all over the world. This past spring there was a
segment on the rise of Nazism in Hungary. I was informed and not too pleased to
see the Ferencvaros soccer fans (my favorite team long before all this garbage)
as being one of their targets. But, if we get a address, then maybe have them
do a segment on ethnic Hungarians in Slovakia or Romania??? ;-)

Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com

> =============================================================================
From: John Czifra >
Subject: Fax letter to Michal Kovac!!!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Szia haverok,

 I've been urged by Liptak Bela to start a faxing campaign to give praise to
President Michal Kovac of the Slovak Republic for his speech to the public on
New Year's Day.

 Here's part of my post yesterday (1-4-96):
Something that strikes me as interesting is the OMRI report on the Slovak
president's address on New Year's Day. He "called on the coalition to be
tolerant of its critics". He said,"Suppressing critics, calling them traitors
or enemies, is considered the first step to a totalitarian regime". Kovac
called 1995 a "year of political retaliation".

Well, folks, it seems that Kovac (is it possible that he has some Magyar in
him, with that name?) is pretty sympathetic to the situation at hand.
Considering the fact that we (those of us who weren't chicken shit) bombarded
his fax machine with pleas not to sign that ridiculous language law, it's seems
that he's maybe starting to see things in a more realistic light and not in
this pompous jack-ass "get over it" or "wait till we're in the EU" line of
thinking that many preach on this list. If 1995 was the year of "political
retaliation", as Michal Kovac put it, then 1996, hopefully, will be the year of
POLITICAL CHANGE. This can only be done so by each and everyone on this list
and anyone with enough common sense to see that this Meciar is not all that
he's cracked up to be and is certainly not someone we'd like to deal with.

So, basically, any kind of minority autonomy can only be established by the
concord of the majority, expressed by the Parliment's (whether it be Romania's
or Slovakia's) "for" vote of majoritarian deputies. It doesn't take a rocket
scientist to figure out in Romania and in Slovakia the majority will is not for
Hungarian cultural, educational, spiritual, or territorial autonomy, as
expressed by the current language law.

 I've never done a fax campaign, but I'll give it a shot. Correct me, if needed


To: The Honorable President of the Slovak Republic: Michal Kovac

Subject: New Year's Day speech.

Dear Mr. Kovac,

         I am (name,title, etc.) from (country). I am of Hungarian descent and
I am concerned about the well being of ethnic Hungarians and other minorities
in Slovakia. I'd, first, like to compliment you on your speech to the nation on
New Year's Day. You are certainly correct in saying that one should be tolerant
of one's critics and not consider them traitors and enemies of the state for it
is the first step towards a totalitarian regime. I couldn't agree more.

         I wish that line of thinking was there it came time to sign the new
language law, that former prime minister Jozef Moravcik or Jan Charnogursky
apparently did not sign. It is an unjust law not just for those ethnic
minorities, but for the Slovak population as well. If this law is totally
enforced, that can mean that it can also enfringe on the rights of Slovak
publications, as well. Not only is this law unjust, but it is direct conflict
with the Slovak Constitution. Under paragraph 34/2/b the Slovak Constitution
guarantees the right of the minorities to use their languages in all offical
and public communications.

         Mr. Kovac, it is essential that you reconsider your position on the
language law. An ideal solution lies in the evolution of a genuine
multi-national or un-national state, which citizenship is as separate from
nationality as it is from religion. It is doubtful that any solution can be
made to work unless it is accompanied by the development of democratic
governments, mutual tolerance and constitutional safeguards as well as judicial
and administrative practices which will place all citizens on a footing of
equality before the law, give them equal and civil political rights, and
thereby lay the foundation for harmonius cooperation with the State.

        Until that happens, Mr. Kovac, you can expect political pressure to
continue from those within Slovakia, neighboring countries, and everyday people
like me. Thank you, Mr. Kovac, for your time.


So, is this good enough, folks!!
As I said before, make neccessary corrections. If you don't like it; tell me. I
won't bite. I promise.

Oh!! With regards to Hungary and their lack of members on HL. Knowing that
Hungary is not as fully equiped as those of us who live abroad. Couldn't we
ally ourselves with the Hungarian press?? Or just send the same greeting we got
from Gotthard Szabo, before we got on the HL-list, to universities in Hungary??
Especially, those who are e-mail ready?? Slovakia & Romania are waiting for
Hungary at the table to make "peace" so they can get in the EU. Unfortunately,
Slovakia got one step ahead of the Romanians and got Hungary, somehow, to sign
the bilateral agreement in April 1995. Then the language law passed and woke up
some Hungarian politicians. Now, it should be our duty to carpet bomb the
Parliment with e-mail urging them to hold their ground until there's a
guarantee that ethnic minorities will have freedoms. I'm not that proficient in
Hungarian to do such a thing, but many of you are.

For years, (I'm only 25, by the way) I've seen the Hungarian community
dissolve, especially here in the New Brunswick, NJ area. Many may argue with
me, but it is true. For years my father would say, "Jancsi, Hungarians can
never get together for anything!". I never understood it until a few years ago.
In New York there were 3 radio broadcasts on Sundays: Kalman Laszlo, Koreh
Ferenc, and Appatini Gyula. These radio shows always preached the wrong doing
that was going on in Romania and etc., but one host would sponser this event
the other something else and so on. They never really acknowledged each others
existence. That's why I joined this group. I hope we can consolidate many
Hungarian organizations together. We have a lot to learn from each other. I
hope we can prove my dad wrong. Sorry apukam.

Ifj. Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com

> =============================================================================
From: Tony and Celia Becker >
Subject: Re: East European lobbying groups
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 16:37:33 -0500
>To: "Peter A. Soltesz" >
>From: Tony and Celia Becker >
>Subject: Re: East European lobbying groups
>At 09:04 AM 1/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>Please do not forget the Hungarian American Coalition which is involved
>>in Hungarian affairs and issues related to Hungarians.
>>They are located in Cleveland and also have a
>>Washington DC office at:
>>818 Connecticut Avenue,NW,  Suite 850
>>Washington, DC 20006
>>Thank You.
>>Peter Soltesz
>Thank you, Peter.  If I'm not mistaken, Frank Kozorucs is one of your
principal DC representatives?  In trying to emphasize that both Frank and
Laszlo sit on the same larger committees of multiple ethnicities, I
overlooked the need to refer to my files and put in Frank's coalition
address.  Thank you for correcting that oversight.
>However, I am familiar with Frank's organization and that Washington
office.  Lobbying (or more accurately providing a lot of information and
ideas) Congress and the Administration is only part of what that office
does.  It handles cultural and basic-humanitarian situations also; like
promoting the tours of Hungarian dance troupes and campaigns for refugee
relief funds.  These are all very important works, but the limited resources
then are divided among them.
>Laszlo Pasztor's office is still the only office exclusive devoted to
informational/educational activities directly related to governmental
decisions and actions--and is still the only office that represents nearly
_all_ East Central Europeans together (when they agree on common goals and
objectives of which the  Hungarians are a part).
>Both offices have very limited resources.  Since the Hungarian lobby,
however, is concerning itself primarily with the governmental decisions and
implementations, while the cooperation of both offices is highly desireable
and necessary, which office by it's nature--and history (Laszlo and most of
his associates have been in DC, often in very strategic and high-level U.S.
capacities for over 30 years) do you think is likely to have the greater
political influence in a multi-ethnic Congress and Administration who
together rely not on just 1.6 million votes to get elected to develop
programs together, but need at the least 10 million solid votes to swing a
majority of all the elections necessary.
>And no, I'm not asking anyone to choose between supporting one office or
another.  I hope to God everyone supports both.  We need them both.  Laszlo
and his associates are primarily older, and they will gladly admit they are
quite frankly getting tired and probably less able to do as much as they
have in the past and would like more help and support.
>However, where are those younger Hungarian Americans willing to take some
lessons and introductions from Laszlo to people like Senator-and major
Presidential candidate Dole (for whom Laszlo was once a senior aide)?  Sure,
Laszlo would turn over a whole lot of work and influence and access--if he
knew that his successors would maintain some of the activities and cordial
communications that make many of the most senior still existing members of
Congress, and the long-term powerful denizens of the State and Defense
departments still attentive to and occasionally cooperative with us.
Powerful relationships like these do not get developed overnight.  They're
built on experience and trust.
>Whether people always agree with and personally like Laszlo Pasztor and
some of his friends and co-workers, etc. is not as relevant as who of the
people we are trying to influence among the most powerful of general U.S.
government officials, like and will regularly listen to Laszlo.  Who will
actually meet with him, personally, and send aides to his organizational
meetings, instead of foisting him off on some junior aide--as most other
East Central Europeans are.  (I've had far fewer personal meetings with key
politicians, than Laszlo--and suffered through meetings with far more junior
aides that don't even know Hungary is a landlocked country and the nearest
neighbor to Yugoslavia and was never a part of Yugoslavia, etc., etc.--a
separate long story on that one--than I care to think about.)
>Laszlo Pasztor does a good job with them--the big politicians, the hidden,
long-term real decision makers in State and Defense, etc., representing
Hungarians and East Central Europeans.  That's what _they_ see and
trust--not the divisions inside the Hungarian community.  They are not
stupid people either.  They know about the divisions and various other
matters.  They have investigated and still found far greater merit than
deficiency in Laszlo.  You don't get the kind of security clearances Laszlo
has had without a lot of people--who could care less about Hungarians
generally--checking up on you constantly.  I've talked to senior aides
(chiefs of staff, etc.--and occasionally Congress persons) that regard
Laszlo Pasztor's office as the principal "institute"--like Brookings and
Hudson, for information--and ideas--about East Central Europe.  It's a
difficult--actually impossible--job for as few people regularly man that
office--even just to provide government-decision related information full
time.  Laszlo needs help and cooperation--as does Frank Kozorucs.
>Both of these gentlemen--and real statesmen and diplomats--work too much
"overtime" and are endangering their health and family relationships on
behalf of us all.  So, I hope everyone reading this thinks about it and does
what they can, and those in DC, please call both offices and offer
assistance of any sort--and please, please figure out how to give Laszlo a
good successor to mentor that will have front door in person access to
senior Republicans and Democrats for the next 30 years.
>So, Peter, I hope you and Frank will get together and then get together
with Laszlo too.  I'll look forward to the day when I can reliably call
either Washington DC office--even on a Monday--and always talk to someone
who actually goes and talks to Congresspersons, etc. (or at least their
seniormost aides.).  Again, thank you very much for your assistance in
telling the HL about who all is available in DC.
>Respectfully and sincerely,
>Cecilia L. Fa'bos-Becker
>3273 B Rocky Water Lane
>San Jose, CA, USA 95148
>ph. & fax: 408-223-6102
>e-mail: becker @shell.portal.com
AE0M, Tony Becker -  - Silicon Valley, U.S.A.

> =============================================================================
Subject: Slovakia's Language Laws
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To:     The New York Times              January 4, 1996
        Letters to The Editor

Ref.:   Slovakia's Language Laws

Dear Editor,

I am quite surprised to read the letter from Slovakia's Ambassador Branislav
Lichardus (NYT 1/3/96 A10) defending the laws passed and planned to be
passed in Slovakia forbidding the use of any other language than Slovak.

The reasoning of Mr. Lichardus is reminiscent of the reasoning of former
president Nicoleau Ceausescu's of Rumania who defended his anti-Hungarian
actions in Transylvania. Indeed the laws of Slovakia now seem to be concerted

with similar laws in Rumania where similar laws are proposed to curb the
minorities' rights to practice and live their cultural and ethnic heritage.
Mr. Lichardus feels it defensible to mandate the language of the majority he
should be reminded that 11% of his countrymen are neither Slovaks nor
immigrants to his country but became citizens of Slovakia when the country of

Czecho-Slovakia was created after WW-I, they are indigenous to Slovakia! They

also pay taxes, they also live and work in Slovakia and they are also part of
society. It is not the ethnic minority that does not want to participate in
society but the society - or government - that is trying to disown them!

Most assuredly, such "reasoning", policy and such laws will push Slovakia to
level of ethnic cleansing only seen in the Balkans. Slovakia has a tradition
democracy when it was a part of the late Czecho-Slovakia after WW-I but it
have to show that the democratic spirit did not escape after the break-up of


                Mihaly Tapolyai, MD

> =============================================================================
From: Tony and Celia Becker >
Subject: Re: East European lobbying groups
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Peter;

At 08:16 PM 1/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear Tony & Celia:
>Thanx for your note. I have also copied Frank KOSZORUS. We probably all
>want to get better conditions for ALL Hungarians. We will continue to try
>to keep the Beltway-insiders cognizant of the fact that there are real
>issues that need to be dealt with (Minority, lanugage, rights, economic,
>technical, NATO, etc.) that may or maynot be perceived as a direct
>benefit to the USA. However, it is the constant civilized communications
>with the Senators, Congress, Administration which will help our case in
>the long term. I do not know Laszlo (yet) but probably will soon. I have,
>along with others like Pal Toldalagi, etc. put up a new internet
>Hungarian American Coalition comment board, which will be active soon.

Pal Toldalagi is a great guy.  He works with both the Hungarian Human Rights
group in New York and is a director of one of the chapters of the Hungarian
American Chamber of Commerce.  He's got all kinds of extra connections
beyond Hungarians per se, and he's very smart.
>I have given both HAC and HL all of the e-mail addresses for all the
>"up-to-date" Congress/Senate. etc.
>One must, I feel, be careful in terms of what and to who it is sent, and
>also how often. WE (thats the royal we) do not want to be perceived as
>those whiners.... It is better to do some research first, then send some
>of the letters. We need to make our presence felt in DC.
>It is interesting that you say that there are only 1.6 Million Huns in USA.
>Perhaps so....I beleive that there are many more, in fact I can assure
>you that IF we did a GOOD research you will find that there are MANY MANY
>people who will claim to be of Hungarian extraction (great grand xxx was)
>etc. I have personally found many who have Hun names and do not speak the
>language..cause they were here generations ago...YET they feel like
>Hungarians! Let us also FIND and use these people who are/may be
>sympathetic to the general causes that we believe in.

You're right, technically (I researched a lot of historical and census
records for a variety of reasons a few years ago) there are a lot more
people who are at least one-quarter Hungarian (using the legal expression
that defines Native Americans who qualify for federal benefits, etc. as
such), but they don't always know they are, or identify themselves as such.
When a census official--or some other official, or even an employer--asks
you what ethnicity you are, the answer is supposed to be what the respondent
feels is the one choice most dominant.  Thus a person who is equally
Hungarian, Scottish, Austrian, and Irish, could choose any of these and
still be a Hungarian American--but not known as such.  You wouldn't believe
how many Scots-Irish whom are actually Scottish have registered as "Irish,"
as one other really strange item.  (The Scots-Irish got the hypenated name
because their families spent one or two generations in Ireland before coming
to the U.S.--they had accepted land for expanding families as part of
England's effort to "pacify" and convert the Irish--England thought that the
Celts could get along with each other better if conversion were at all
peaceably possible--and if not, well that got rid of those tending toward
Presbyterianism, too--the English were Episcopal (Anglican is simply the
English Episcopal Church)  However, the Scots kept to themselves and did not
change their culture or their language in the brief time they were in
Ireland.  They married among one another, and had previously been solidly
Scots for hundreds of years.  So, technically they are Scots--not Irish.)

Anyhow, I digress.   The real problem we have run into in getting the 3rd,
4th, etc. generations active is two items.  First, prior to 1957, Hungary
for over 50 years was _the_designate enemy of the U.S.--and the "white"
race.  We didn't belong even in Europe, much less the U.S.  In the north,
the Ku Klux Klan regularly burned and shot up Hungarian--and other East
Central European neighborhoods the way they did blacks in the South,
Hispanics in the southwest, and Chinese in the west.  The history books had
nothing good to say about us.  Pick up the high school history books in any
public school--and even most private schools--today, and see what it says
about Hungary.  Most of them still say we started World War I and were
willing Jew-murdering allies of Hitler in World War II.  You and I--and most
of the HL--may now know that's all nothing but lies--mostly created by the
English to justify and cover up their own aggression, but the majority of
Americans--including 3rd, 4th, etc. generation Hungarian Americans do not
know this.  They're still being constantly brainwashed with old propaganda.

My own father's neighborhood was one of those shot up by the KKK and others.
His late aunt wore a permanent part in her hair (scar) where a bullet in one
of those incidents went right through her scalp--on a Sunday afternoon, in
the dining room, three walls from the front exterior.  My then infant father
was sitting on her lap at the time...  My father was beaten up as a teenager
several times when he went outside of the ethnic Hungarian neighborhood just
for being a Hungarian, and ended up volunteering for the U.S. Marines and
specifically the Japanese island campaign just to prove he was as good an
American as anyone else.  He lied about his age--he was not quite 17, and
thus underage--just to get into the Marines.  They knew he was lying, and
didn't care.  What a great way to get of another unwanted Hun.

After World War II, and a lot of horrors in it, he ended up working in Adak,
Kodiak, and Labrador, because of discrimination in jobs here.  He was an
electrician and a darned good one.  Bechtel had no problems--loved him.
When he could finally work in the U.S. he had work even during the worst
recessions.  The companies would always let everyone go before him.  He was
made a foreman of up to 6 sites at once and over 150 workers--and every last
one of those jobs was finished ahead of schedule with absolutely no
mistakes--and with almost no overtime being asked of the workers, ever.
Even after he was able to work in the U.S. again, our family--and other
Hungarians experienced discrimination.  We were among the first Hungarian
families to move into an "American" suburb, populated by people with mostly
English, Irish and German last names.  The four Hungarians in the school got
to be real good friends with the principal--in the first month of first
grade.  We were blamed for everything.  We were even called "changelings,
and devil-children" (high cheek bones, almond-shaped eyes, darker skin
color, etc.)  Mothers told their children in our neighborhood not to play
with us because we were "foreign."  This was in the 1950's.  I was forbidden
by my father to learn to speak Hungarian because he "didn't want to give
anyone a reason for beating me up the way he'd been beaten."

That's the kind of stuff that has been experience of most Hungarian
Americans--or their parents in this country since about 1900.  There has
been little reason for many of them to want to remember they are Hungarians.
My father, with his very golden brown skin, high cheekbones, round Mongolian
face, and large almond-shaped eyes will tell you or anyone else to this day,
that he is a white American--and nothing more.  That's what over fifty years
of abuse will do...

I have tried to explain this to most of the existing organizations who
wonder why 2nd, 3rd and 4th generations are not exactly flocking to join.
It's hard for them to understand what they have not experienced, especially
since so many have come to this country after the Civil Rights movement
began to take off.

For Hungarians, in 1957 things began to change.  As children, we noticed we
were being sent to the principal's office less, and we had to get more and
more creative with the catechism and dogma questions to spend some time with
Sister Mary Alma (she was great--never sent a note home to any of our
parents, and had one of the best baseball pitches I've ever seen in an
amateur.  My snowball throwing improved tremendously in first grade, which
most of the neighborhood children inclined to such things as snowball fights
did not appreciate, unfortunately.).  However, in the late 1960's two
teachers at my high school who tried to teach the truth (documented,
reputable western sources of materials, no nationalistic anything--and
neither of the teachers was Hungarian) about World War I, were asked to find
other districts in which to teach, after only a few years.  Their truly
excellent classes that promoted research, thinking and analysis and asked a
lot of hard questions about prejudices of many sorts were not well received
by many parents who seemed to prefer to maintain the established mythologies.

But that's all past, at least for me, and I had the sense and opportunity to
get history and anthropology degrees from a good university.  It's not past
for Hungarian descended students even today, and they have no real
alternatives for contrary information, or for cultural lessons that make
them aware of and feel good about their heritage.  For one thing, with a few
exceptions, most local Hungarian organizations that could provide
alternative materials, and do have some cultural classes and events, do
everything (or nearly everything) in Hungarian language.  Sorry, folks, but
darned few 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation Hungarians who are at least 35 years
old speak and read the language.  Classes in the language are almost
non-existent.  In the San Francisco Bay area, where I live, I'd have to
drive at least 70 miles to get to one--at either Berkeley, or the Monterey
Language Institute.  As we've been discussing for the political activities
of the HL, the audience must be considered as to how best to approach or
attract it, if one truly wants that audience.  Trying to convince an English
speaking Hungarian American--in Hungarian--how great it is to be a Hungarian
and that they should join various activities, etc., is not the way to get
that audience or participants.

One of these years I intend to learn more than just a smattering of
Hungarian (I do understand more than I speak--I got my grandmother--Dad's
very authoritative mother to get my father to agree that I could at least
try to learn to understand the language even if I couldn't speak it.  I
always understood when my grandmother was directing me to home-made treats,
and when I was being told to get my little fingers out of something in which
she did not think they belonged.  There were a lot of other things, too, big
and small.  She was a wonderful, loving lady, and a lot of fun to be around,

The time will come more easily when some of the life-and-death matters
involving too many people I care about become better resolved.  I see a lot
more good things--and people--around to help improve those situations a bit
faster, so I think in a couple of years, I'll get there.  However, I think
the HL and its friends are going to have a much harder time getting all
those Hungarian American engineers, etc. involved in start up companies to
find the time...

I hope some of this helps you and the rest of the HL to understand how
difficult the task--but not impossible, I think, will be to bring in the
2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. generations.  It is an important and necessary task.

Well, this reply has digressed into yet another project for the HL.  I hope
our membership is still increasing.


Cecilia L. Fa'bos-Becker

3273 B Rocky Water Lane
San Jose, CA, USA 95148
tel. & fax: 408-223-6102

>Member: HAC, H, IEEE.
AE0M, Tony Becker -  - Silicon Valley, U.S.A.

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+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Som > wrote:

>On 30 Dec 1995, Cory wrote:

>> : I think that was very nice of you to inform Andrea Cocito of 
the "Language of Love" I'm going to print that for myself.  You never know when
 you might need it. Thanks, Jennifer Ferris Blacksburg VA

>" I love you" : kocham cie (Polish)
>" I love you" : seni seviyorum <Turkish)
>" I love you" : Ich liebe dich (German}
>" I love you" : Je t'aime (Francias)
>" I love you" : Ti amo (Italiano)
>" I love you" : I love you (English :)
>" I love you": Szeretlek (Hungary)