Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Gov't Controls/Newcomer/and other (mind)  227 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Hungarian Immigration (mind)  72 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: lachs, lox and lazac (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Hungarian prehistory (mind)  72 sor     (cikkei)
5 please write! urgent! (fwd) (mind)  95 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Living standards and economic growth (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: A few words about many words (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: A disabled country (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
9 Ethym (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: lachs, lox and lazac (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: A few words about many words (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
12 Mardi Gras ... (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: The burden's on Durant (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: developing science education (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Bokros's resignation (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Ethym (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: To: Durant, Balogh, Zsargo, Szucs, Kornai, Gotthard (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: Nation states and knowledge (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
19 English language (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Feb 24 Performance-Tanc Haz (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
21 Mardi Gras ... (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
22 Bokros' resignation (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
23 lachs, lox and lazac (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Gov't Controls/Newcomer/and other (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Group

I am new to the net; and quite by accident stumbled upon you several weeks
ago.  Thanks to some of the readers; who have patiently guided my "net
ignorance and blindness" - through their help I am now able to enjoy you all
off the net - a most welcome saving in hours - and apologies to all those,
whom I have seriously inconvenienced while attempting to download
information from the net previous to that.

Wow... what a colourful group; and set of topics.... Tonight, I have re-read
all from #570 - and felt that this might be a good place to jump in and add
my two filler's worth.     

Dear Sam:
You wrote:
>P.S. -- Here's a question for the group at large -- why does almost
>everyone who challenges Durant do so on economic grounds? She's pleased as
>punch to babble on ad nauseum when you do. But when I ask her about the
>impacts of Marxism-Leninism on human thought, belief and morals, she cooks
>off like a hand grenade.

I believe that your last statement might give the answer you are seeking.
To me, you could not have said it any cleared.  

>Am I the only one on here who isn't locked into a
>>rigid economics-oriented view of the human condition? (Szalai, get your
>>fingers off the keyboard right now, young man!)
(Sorry, not Szalai here; but I would be disappointed if we would not hear
from him on this).   Someone along the way referred to the affects of
socialism/communism as stifling human thoughts, desires  etc...;  perhaps
the term  "zombifying human thought, etc " might be more descriptive.  In
either case, the impacts on the society and its' conduct,  directly affects
its' economy and are therefore hard to separate.


Re:  Eva Duran'ts "Burden & Unloading of Burden" 

Political beliefs, economical grounds, historical data, statistics have all
been added and discussed from what I have understood.  I would like to
introduce a new approach; a little simple and practical approach.  Not being
a historian, a politician, a lawyer, an economist or a professor, the
quality of the text will undoubtadly lack the flare I have wittnessed so
far; along with references and AMAZING knowledge.  I do hope however that;
you will enjoy the contents.  (Through this, I would like to address several
issues that have been raised by Szalai, Eva D, Eva B., Cecilia, Johanna,
Hormann, and all others (please forgive my shortcut this one time, by
eliminatig cut/paste of quotes - going back and forth through the scattered
articles would take forever!  

Capitalists -  first; a story;  There are several at hand in Eastern Canada
one particularly comes to mind.  (in a nutshell)  A gentleman, began a
business, by investing in a hamburger stand many years ago.  With the
capital he raised, he bought an oil delivery truck. .. and another..   by
making decisions, and utilizing avenues made available to him through a
democratically ruled government; he eventually branched into gas stations,
transport companies, oil refining, than later to the pulp and paper
industry, and empire was born.  The gentleman I speak of is the Late K.C.
Irving. This gentleman was more than clever - he was imaginative, shrewd
and risky.  He was hated, loved, admired and envied.  His
imagination/energy, drive? carried him to the Fortune 500 - if not in the
top 50.  *Not bad, from a hamburger stand*.  I don't have to emphasize to
you all, the number of jobs he created through all this.  The fact is, that
an entire province even today relies on being supported basically from this
one man's past efforts, successes and failures (there were those too).
Further to this, all I can add is;  that the provinces' population considers
it an honour to be employed by any one of the Irving Group.  Contrary to
statements made earlier on capitalists; this gentlemans' staff are amply
rewarded financially for their "efforts".  (nicely adds to E. Balogh's para
beginning with "filthy capitalists".    

Szalai -Ur!  Re taxes - (I believe your quote came from the same dialogue as
E.B's above) I am sure that you are aware of some of the following but
here's the full scoop:  The Canadian tax law, requires that you pay property
taxes on all property owned by you.  (this includes property, garbage,
school, lighting, road tax, etc)  If you happen to occupy any of the
premises you own, for business conduct, you also are required to pay
business occupancy taxes. (this would include ditto
above/property/occupancy, at a slightly higher rate).   Each employer is
bound by law to match the contribution that each employee makes to their own
Can. Pension fund; Unemployment insurance=  employee contribution x 1.4%
(and rising)   It is also interesting to add that although the employer is
required by law to contribute this to the Unemployment Act, they are also by
the same law deemed unititled to benefit from it.  

In addition to this, you must consider the taxes that are accrued through
annual profits. In addition, provincial and gst on everything you buy for
your own self use.  Not to mention health care (yes, our American
friends...even in Canada, corporations, private business, must face the
reality of health care) It would be my guess that, Mr. Irving paid more than
his fair share of taxes, etc  through the years, while providing employment
to the majority of a provinces' population.  It is also a known fact that,
Mr. Irving indeed diverted enourmous funds from  taxes.   But... the
information to accomplish that, was readily available to everyone/anyone
else in Canada - (one benefit of democracy).  The difference being between a
democratic  vs. socialist ruled system regarding this issue in my opinion is
that, the previous have proved to become great at utilizing/potentially
abusing what is readily at hand; while the latter through history have
proved to become great at utilizing/potentially abusing  that, which is
readily handed.  (I must also add that in the former; the avenues for abuse
are more "traceable" and subject to public knowledge, assessment and
action).  Getting back to KC - the funds he saved on taxes, undoubtedly
added to his already handsome lifestyle - which he so deserved in my
opinion.  But rest assured that it also had a great deal of impact on the
overall growth of his Empire.  Which provided more and more employment, more
and more financial backing to hospitals, schools, sport organizations, you
name it.   Regarding tax shelters for the "upper crust"  - sorry, but I just
have to add this.  These shelters are not limited to the "upper crust" - in
fact, many are geared towards the middle class - who would rather invest in
their own personal RRSP's instead.   The "shelters"  are meant to divert
the funds of private sector (as opposed to public$'s), for use by the
private sector - often with disastrous results to the investor. (more to you
on this, via private E mail)   

Eva D., as for the affects on his personal life and of wife/his children by
his absence; I would not dare to quess.  However, his children and
grandchildren today are carrying the burden, responsibilities, the
headaches, and the benefits of his legacy.  And... as for the ability of his
power, and "executive decisions" - I believe he did have both - if not more.
Did he end up with control within the government structure? - when one is
faced with a responsibility  of making decisions, which affect the lives of
many many thousands of families; - should he? it's your call.  

I wanted to share this with you all; since in my opinion, gives the best
example I have of a "nouveu capitalist".  And I would like to ask;  under
any socialist rule; be it Hungary, or Timbactoo could anyone, would anyone
be able/to dare be as creative, risky, contributing?

Johanna, at one point you, referred to a fishing village having been
deserted; and questioned if the government of Canada even cared.  I bring
this up, (althought out of context of your article)  because in my mind, it
is another excellent example of E. Durant's dream.  Past Social programs in
Canada; (at taxpayer expense) have succeeded exceptionally well in my
opinion, at creating distinct societies.  One of these, is the fishing
industry, specifically in the Maritimes.  The main exportable product of the
marities during the last decade (save coal/steel) was fish.  Fishermen were
allowed to fish; with no government controls for years on end.  In season,
countless grants, tax benefits, you name it; along with and not excluding
provincial/fed subsidies were made accessible to them.   During off-seasons,
they were well compensated through Unemployment Benefits.  Some did, and
others did not take advantage of it.  It so appears however, that those with
a dream, created great businesses; on their own.  Others, accomplished the
same, while at the same time, drawing funds from the taxpayers.  Others,
just drew them.  Today, when the fish-stocks are near if not totally
depleated; as such the exportable product becomes less and less; controls
must take place;  thus the government is caught in damage control.  Result?
- all end up the loosers - thanks to the "ideologies of social benefits".

Another example that comes to mind, would the province of Quebec.  But
boy.... that in itself is a ten hour discussion at least!  One point - it is
one of provinces of Canada, that statistically boasts of being amongst the
highest in reliance from social benefits.

Having said all that, it is my observation, that a new "trend" is on the
rise - since I can't invision, a KC story in the 90's or soon there after.
One where, more and more, the burden (here's that word B word again... sorry
E.D.) will be on the individual to create his/her own employment
opportunities.  Tough times ahead, from all that I have read and seen!.
Aside from which, small business I believe will become (if not already) the
backbone of the econony(ies) at large - as already evidenced and enforced
through enourmous downsizing by the magnates.

So, where does that leave us in my train of though?... Small business...
backed by individual resources.  Some are lucky.  But mosly, they will rely
on institutional financing.  Which will write a new song;  not "owe my soul
to the company store, but rather "owe my soul to the local bank".  The
logistics of small business are complex and therefore lenghtly; but one
statement sticks out from having read the articles; "now if I can only
convince my husband, that his company is doing ok"  - or something like
that, (thanks Cecilia - it really hit home!!!!).  For all the people I know
in similar situations; not one of them, EVER relaxes enough to believe that
all's OK.  At any case, I have never met a small business owner, who's staff
is "unjustly paid for their services" if anything; quite the opposite; in
times of tough cash flow; it is the owner, who does NOT get paid, in order
to make sure that their employees do.  And further; if/when financing is
required, I have never seen an employee offer their home for collateral -
when the "CEO" has no choice but to. - Watch it "fellows" - you attack this
too much, as a newcomer, I'll have to resort to "sicking" all these people
on you!!!! :) And again - I'd like to see a comparisson of this last para -
in a socialist system.

Szalai Ur Megint - back to you:  Re: housing for all, etc.  During the 50's,
(I don't have to spell out the government in power)  I shared a one bedroom
rowhouse (no hot water - private toilet - coal storage) with 17 other
people.  Why?  Because, as my family members were getting married, they were
faced with dealing with a waiting list for a "tanacs haz"  (I am not
entirely sure; but I believe it meant  state provided housing) The the first
to leave our "paradise", took ten years and two children later; end result,
one room, sharing (10 toilets 20 living quarters away from theirs) with 40
families). And, they really thought they died and gone to heaven!  You would
not believe the ecstacy, when they moved into what we might now refer to as
a "rat hole".  BUT... I'm not finished yet.... my best school friend at the
time; resided in a four bedroom "kertes lakas" - (single family home) - in a
guarded "yard" - into which no one could get in/out  without an invitation
or pass - called "Muveszkert"  (Artits'Garden) - her father was a sculptor.
In this four bedroom home, lived my friend, her mother and father. - An
extremely vivid memory of my early life; yet another example of a
"socialist" rule, providing for housing.  Of course, I could continue and
relate similar to health care, unemployment, all the points you raised....
but fear the boredom or abuse from the rest of the group.

But really, it is getting late; and I have said far too much; the point? - I
don't belive there is a  perfect solution - short of genetically bred
perfect humans?    But for sure.... marxism, leninism, socialism... are not
my choice for any future;( and the lower caps are purposely put there).

EVA D., if you really are teaching the philosphy you have portrayed on this
group to the upcoming generation, please consider that you have a great
responsibility!    Take a leap!  Open a business Start it from you own
resources!  Then, when it is prosperous, pretend,  that the state comes in,
and takes it away from you.( or even better, offer it to the state, on you
own)   But do more than that!  Go back to Hungary, and stay there (say a
sabbatical) , long enough to understand the  root of their anger,
anxieties, lack of trust, the affects that broken familes/ dreams have had
on their present lives, but mostly... their need for freedom of speech,
freedom of choice.  (the most frequent statement thrown at me while in
Hungary is that; they never had a chance, to make a choice, let alone a
mistake!  and if their choice failed, they would be glad to take the
responsibility for it)  It is my humble, opinion, that until you do this,
you are in no more a position to teach the future generation,  than am I.
And believe me... I am not at all qualifed!

Best regards to you all!  Enjoyed tremendously your geat discussions and
knowledge. Aniko Dunford

+ - Re: Hungarian Immigration (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Be sure not to overlook _The Hazardous Quest: Hungarian Immigrants in the
United States, 1895-1920_, Edited and Translated by Albert Tezla,
published by Corvina Books, Budapest, 1993.

Prof. Tezla has other important materials in his collection.  He can be
reached at .  He had cataract surgery yesterday, so
please allow extra time for him to respond.

Tim Roufs
Duluth, MN

On Tue, 20 Feb 1996, Peter I. Hidas wrote:

> At 6:41 PM 2/16/96, Jim Burke wrote:
> >I am trying to help my daughter learn more about Hungarian
> >immigration to the United States. When it occured and where most of
> >the settlement took place. We are having difficulting good,
> >specific, sources for information. Any assistance in pointing her in
> >the right direction would be most welcome. She has found some of
> >your most recent postings informative about current discussions
> >about Hungary.
> 16. 79-314907: Ben-Menachem, Elinor.  "Swedish citizens"; a sociopsychologica
>      investigation of Hungarian immigrants in Sweden,  [Uppsala, Dept. of
>      Psychology, University of Uppsala, 1970]  32 l. 30 cm.
>      LC CALL NUMBER: BF21.A1 U6 no. 83
> 2. 95-5134: Donahue, David M.  The uprooted : refugees and the United States 
>      a resource curriculum /  1st ed.  Alameda, CA : Hunter House, c1995.  p.
>      cm.
>      CIP - NOT YET IN LC
> 3. 94-212376: Rowland, Robert C., 1954-  United States policy on immigration 
>      an overview of the issues affecting the immigration policy of the United
>      States /  Lincolnwood, Ill. : National Textbook Company, c1994.  vi, 148
>      p. ; 23 cm.
>      LC CALL NUMBER: JV6455.5 .R69 1994
>  86-12079: Loescher, Gil.  Calculated kindness ; refugees and America's
>      half-open door, 1945 to the present /  New York : Free Press ; London :
>      Collier Macmillan, c1986.  xviii, 346 p. ; 25 cm.
>      LC CALL NUMBER: JV6601.R4 L63 1986
> 70-503436: Weinstock, S. Alexander, 1931-  Acculturation and occupation: a
>      study of the 1956 Hungarian refugees in the United States.  The Hague,
>      Nijhoff, 1969 [1970]  x, 127 p. 24 cm.
>      LC CALL NUMBER: E184.H95 W4
>  67-30843: Konnyu, Leslie, 1914-  Hungarians in the United States; an
>      immigration study.  St. Louis, American Hungarian Review, 1967.  iii, 84
>      p. illus., facsims., maps, ports. 22 cm.
>      LC CALL NUMBER: E184.H95 K6
>  75-259027: World Council of Churches. Division of Inter-Church Aid,
>      Refugee and World Service.  Hungary--special report.  Geneva, 1957]  30
>      illus. 21 cm.
>      LC CALL NUMBER: DB957 .W67
> 13. 73-8563: Bursten, Martin A.  Escape from fear  Westport, Conn., Greenwood
>      Press [1973, c1958]  xv, 224 p. illus. 23 cm.
> 14. 58-14310: Pfeiffer, Ede.  Child of communism.  New York, Crowell [1958]
>      213 p. 21 cm.
>      LC CALL NUMBER: HX260.5.A6 P48 1958
> Peter I. Hidas, Montreal
+ - Re: lachs, lox and lazac (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Simple enough!  =:D


On Tue, 20 Feb 1996, W. BATKAY wrote:

> Eva Balogh does a pretty good job with the origin of "lox" in English,
> but it's not quite so simple, although perhaps it's even more interesting.
> This word for salmon goes back at least to Old English (pre-1000) and its
> Germanic relatives--it's Old English form was "lachs".  For unknown rea-
> sons, however, it died out in standard English until "re-borrowed" from
> Yiddish, which, of course, got it from German.
> So go enjoy!
> Be'la
+ - Re: Hungarian prehistory (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Felado :  [Canada]
> They do provide evidence, although I might tend to agree with you that they
> are not as reliable as data gathered at later centuries. The relationship
> between peoples is proven through a close examination of the structural
> similarities of their languages and specilized vocabulary.
This is known not to work as often as it does. Ethnic groups often adopt
the languages of other ethnic groups, so the net result is that the
correspondence between peoples and languages is weak.

> >Many people (now armed with a better understanding of chaotic processes)
> >seriously doubt whether a better resolution is in fact possible at all,
> Who?
These days, most "splitters", as opposed to "lumpers". The importance of
the study of chaotic systems, and why these cast doubt on our ability
to extrapolate forward or backward in time was discussed in a paper by
Fokasz Nikosz as part of the "Could we see it coming?" debate which was
published in 1990 or 1991 in Replika I think.

> >back before 4,000 BC, anything about the linguistic state of the world
> >prior to 6,000 BC is speculation based on extremely shaky models.
> Do we have to take that on your authority?
It's up to you. You can take my authority --I am a professional linguist
after all-- or leave it. One somewhat dated, but nevertheless still
valuable standard textbook, Hockett's "A course in modern linguistics"
has this to say (p. 462):

One warning must be given at the outset. Many of the early 19th c.
investigators who first developed the comparative method (...) hoped that a
systematic application of such methods might carry our perspective of human
language appreciably nearer the actual beginnings of the institution. This
hope was vain and must be abandoned. Our earliest written records, in any part
of the world, date back only a few millenia; the best that linguistic
prehistory can do in any detail is to extend this horizon back a few millenia

> >let's stick with lazac. Germanic lachs seems a reasonable contact hypothesis
> >here, especially as a number of rather basic flora/fauna terms are
> >unquestionably Germanic in origin.
> Unquestionably? Why?
To the extent that anything is unquestionable in etymology, which is not much,
more like "according to the best evidence". Some words that would belong here
are bak, bogla1rka, borostya1n, bu2kko2ny, coboly, da1m, eper, gida,
go2do2lye, gu1na1r, kappan, lucerna, rozmaring, zeller. You will no doubt
say these are not basic enough. But it's unclear what would make lazac
more basic.

> >> men were Europid, women were mildly Mongoloid, flat-faced
> >??? How could the male and female parts of the population preserve
> >distinct anthropological characteristics?
> Consider mixed marriages. So show the graves.
If the marriages are mixed, what happens after the first generation? How do
the female offspring preserve the Mongoloid and the male offspring the
Europid characteristics? A miracle of genetics it must have been, daughters
inheriting the flat face but sons not inheriting it.

> >> 26 Hungarian words exists of Old-Iranian origin;
> >Could we have a list please?
> Alan words: asszony, hid, gazdag, zold, uveg, placenames: Eszlar
Is this a list of 26? The "la1r" looks suspiciously as a Turkish plural, and I
would find a Slavic explanation for gazda/gazdag more likely. To my knowledge,
asszony and hi1d are Osetic, Iranian to be sure, but not in any way
Old-Iranian. Does someone have Benko3's Etymological Dictionary to check these

> >Are you seriously proposing they went back from agricultural to nomadic?
> Yes. They were forced to move westward. Some show weather changes.
I find this unlikely all the same. Agriculture, once established, is
unlikely to be abandoned, since the population has grown to a size that
can no longer be supported by nomadic society.

Andra1s Kornai
+ - please write! urgent! (fwd) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> I know this is not an issue that would normally be posted to this list.
> Please excuse the intrusion but an
> innocent man is about to be executed on friday.  Enclosed is info and
> sample letters including my own.
> Please post far and wide.
> ernie yacub
> *****
> February 19, 1996
>  Governor of Florida,
>  The Honourable Lawton Chiles
>  State Capitol
>  Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0001
>  USA
> fax (904) 922 4292
> Dear Sir:
> I implore you to postpone the execution of Ricky Roberts to allow for an
> examination of the flawed judicial process that convicted him.  His
> execution is scheduled for this Friday, February 23.
> If you examine the details of this case, I believe you will find an
> egregious miscarriage of justice -- and racism -- where Police and
> District Attorney conspired to present perjured testimony against  an
> innocent  man, and in which his own trial-lawyer admits to having been
> "too exhausted" to provide the necessary attention for an adequate
> defense!  Mr. Roberts' fundamental belief in the criminal justice system
> prompted his full cooperation throughout  the entire
> proceedings.
> >From the information i have been given, there is considerable evidence
> that Rickey did not commit the crime.  Please stop the execution of an
> innocent man!
> Sincerely
> ernie yacub
> cumberland, british columbia
> canada
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:27:57 -0800 (PST)
> From: Bob Witanek >
> To: Recipients of pol-abuse >
> Subject: Desperate Call - Stem Exec. of 'Innocent'
> From: Bob Witanek >
> Subject: Desperate Call - Stem Exec. of 'Innocent'
> Posted   Mon Feb 19 05:13:19 1996
> From:  (Edith Reinhardt)
> Hi,
> I'm sorry to come into your life this rather blunt way, but I really need
> some help from people who are against capital punishment. Now I saw your
> email address in some messages I got from tank&xs4all.nl, on behalf of
> Mumia Abu-Jamal, and therefore I take the brutality of this message.
> It concerns the very serious date of execution of my friend Rickey Roberts
> in Florida, USA. Rickey is an innocent man, and he is sceduled to die in
> the electric chair next friday (Febr. 23)
> Now we've done a lot of campaigning here in Holland - it's been on national
> radio every day - but we also need more help elsewhere.
> Now I would like you to help us, with faxing protest-letters to governor
> Lawton Chiles... Please, could you help us with this? If you indeed want
> to, please have a look at a special web-page:
> http://www.hooked.net/users/plehner/dp/cases/rickey-roberts.html
> Here you'll find all information about this specific case. At the end
> you'll find a letter we wrote to the governor. You can use the same
> letter if you like.
> Because the execution is sceduled for next friday, and if nothing happens,
> the state of Florida is gonna kill an innocent man, I would like you to
> fax this letter to the governor: (904) 922 4292
> Please help us with this! I'm very sorry I have to ask, but we're pretty
> desperate. The life of a dear friend is at stake here...
> Thank you for your time.
> Warmest wishes, Edith Reinhardt )  Holland
>    ######################################################################
>    ##################   EXECUTE JUSTICE, NOT PEOPLE   ###################
>    ##################  http://www.noord.bart.nl/~lof/ ###################
>    ## http://www.hooked.net/users/plehner/dp/cases/rickey-roberts.html ##
>    ######################################################################
+ - Re: Living standards and economic growth (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>         "It"? What? Do you mean "economic growth"? You mean economic growth
> can further impoverish the people? For Pete's sake, try to think here and
>         Eva Balogh

OK, bad grammar on my part. Economical growth may be acompanied
by further impoverishment of people. Sometimes it isn't and
sometimes it is.  My original statement stands: rise in living
standards is not a necessary consequence of economic growth.
Eva Durant
+ - Re: A few words about many words (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>         As it was Hungary's choice to repeat "foul stalinist" mistakes! At
> least this time they have a choice and I hope they will pick the right one.

me too. Do you think there are no international pressures
at present to choose anything but a market economy path?
Eva Durant
+ - Re: A disabled country (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Not many school-aged children in Hungary!  That is one of the major problems
> that the country is facing.  Childcare and maternity benefits are aimed at
> encouraging childbearing.  It does not appear to be working.  Even more
> foolish is the fact that these benefits are awarded to people whether they
> 'need' them or not.  In other words, those with adequate incomes still receiv

The extra benefits used to go to families of more that 2 children.
As the "better off" people don't have generally large families,
I think the benefit in this direction cannot be so large as
to make a difference.
Eva Durant
+ - Ethym (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

If Szalai is bugging Balogh, perhaps he is an entomologist.
+ - Re: lachs, lox and lazac (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:52 PM 2/20/96 EST, Be'la Batkay wrote:
>Eva Balogh does a pretty good job with the origin of "lox" in English,
>but it's not quite so simple, although perhaps it's even more interesting.
>This word for salmon goes back at least to Old English (pre-1000) and its
>Germanic relatives--it's Old English form was "lachs".  For unknown rea-
>sons, however, it died out in standard English until "re-borrowed" from
>Yiddish, which, of course, got it from German.
        Thanks. I did discover the Old English "lachs" in the dictionary
(both in the Hungarian etymological dictionary and in the ordinary Webster),
but I didn't mention it because obviously today's "lox" doesn't have much to
do with it. I bet most Americans would be surprised to hear that once upon
the time we called "salmon" "lachs."

        I will not be around for two weeks. So enjoy!

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: A few words about many words (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:10 AM 2/21/96 +0100, Eva Durant wrote:
>>         As it was Hungary's choice to repeat "foul stalinist" mistakes! At
>> least this time they have a choice and I hope they will pick the right one.
>me too. Do you think there are no international pressures
>at present to choose anything but a market economy path?
>Eva Durant

        Not just international pressures--internal ones as well. What do you
think they could build your socialist paradise--from the indebtedness?

        Eva Balogh
+ - Mardi Gras ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Just in case you missed it...
Yesterday, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras, Hu'shagyo' Kedd), was the last day of
the carnival season (Farsang). Today is Ash Wednesday (Hamvazo' Szerda), it
is the first day of the Christian Lent (Bo~jt). The lent ends on the week
before Easter. Below, you can find the dates for Easter, Lent and movable
Feasts associated with Easter and some other Hungarian national holidays.

In Hungary, Easter is a two day holiday ( and was even during the
communist - just like Christmas, Dec. 25-26 ), consists of Easter Sunday
and Easter Monday (Hu'svet Vasa'rnap e's Hu'sve't He'tfo" ).

Happy Holidays,

1996 - Readings on Sundays are from Liturgical Year A (Matthew) .

Ash Wednesday is 21 February, 1996
Hungarian National Holiday is Friday, 15 March 1996
Laetare Sunday is 17 March, 1996
Palm/Passion Sunday is 31 March, 1996
Good Friday is 5 April, 1996
Easter Sunday is 7 April, 1996
Easter Monday is 8 April, 1996
Ascension is Thursday, 16 May, 1996
Pentecost is Sunday, 26 May, 1996
Trinity Sunday is 2 June, 1996
Corpus Christi is Thursday, 6 June, 1996
+ - Re: The burden's on Durant (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Eva Durant
> writes:

>I don't know what you insinuating. As all your responsses are
>ending in personal  - and unjustified - insult, I stop
>reading your posts.
>Eva Durant

Good. You can expect me to challenge your posts at every opportunity.
Sam Stowe
+ - Re: developing science education (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Eva Durant
> writes:

>Just an illustration how the present heavenly system
>develops new initiatives for progress in the future...
>(forwarded text:)
>> Dear  Friend:
>> Tennessee State Representative Zane Whitson has introduced a bill that
>> would make it a crime to teach evolution in Tennessee.

I'll go you one even better than this one. This same legislative body is
supposedly considering a bill that would require citizens to obey the Ten
Commandments. Fortunately, Tennesseans live in a liberal democracy where
ideologies like this which seek to impose themselves on non-believers
don't stand a chance in the public square. If they lived in your
Marxist-Leninist dictatorship, they'd have no choice but to pay strict lip
service to whatever lunacy was foisted on them by you and the rest of the
ruling class. That's why the idea of constitutionalism means something
here in the States, while you wouldn't recognize it if it bit you on the
Sam Stowe
+ - Re: Bokros's resignation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva S. Balogh wrote:
> According to an English-language news item from OMRI (Prague) the reason for
> Bokros's resignation was the following:
> >HUNGARIAN FINANCE MINISTER RESIGNS. Lajos Bokros on 18 February tendered
> >his resignation after a tumultuous cabinet debate in which his proposal
> >to levy a new, social insurance tax was rejected, Hungarian media
> >reported the next day. Bokros, who has been under increasing attack
> >since the announcement of a radical stabilization program last March,
> >said the new tax was necessary to meet the IMF requirement that the 60
> >billion forint social insurance deficit be reduced by more than two-
> >thirds. In his resignation letter, he noted that without government
> >support, he could neither visualize nor guarantee the success and
> >implementation of public spending reform. Top government officials have
> >pledged to continue with the stabilization program, but the unexpected
> >resignation of the internationally respected finance minister may
> >jeopardize the country's prospects for OECD membership and for an
> >impending IMF loan. -- Zsofia Szilagyi
>         If that is the case, I am not surprised that the cabinet refused to
> endorse Bokros's ideas. I don't think that you can tax the Hungarian public
> any higher as it is taxed already. As the matter of fact they should lower
> taxes instead of increasing them. The solve the problem of the budget, IMHO,
> can be achieved only one reasonable way: lower expenses. Not to raise taxes.
> I was all for Bokros's austerity program but I am not for his idea of
> introducing new taxes.
>         Eva Balogh

 Was Ronald Reagan Hungarian?  :-)

Mirthfully yours,

Doug Hormann
+ - Re: Ethym (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:23 AM 2/21/96 -0500, JFerengi wrote:

>If Szalai is bugging Balogh, perhaps he is an entomologist.

No, I am not an entomologist.  But if I were, my specialty would be dung
beetles.  Not only are they very benignant, but Eva Balogh would freak out
at the word "dung", and conclude, as she has with words like "social
progarmmes", that they are bad and lead to social decay and abuse.

Scatologically yours,
Joe Szalai
+ - Re: To: Durant, Balogh, Zsargo, Szucs, Kornai, Gotthard (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Gabor Luka wrote:

>      Do I hear a suggestion that we of Hungarian ethnicity, on the net,
>      draft a letter, with a petition of names, and send it to Holbrooke and
>      Shomogy.  I am sure we could get a considerable number of signatures,
>      and perhaps with this act, at a minimum, a clear conscience.  Perhaps
>      someone with some skill in drafting letters of this level of
>      importance and politics, could draft a non-attribution letter, then we
>      start the petition drive.  We could take some time to pass it around,
>      then a person could receive all petitions, and letters, and forward to
>      Holbrooke and Shomogyi, in consolidated form.  Any volunteers??

A similar system already exists - called Hungarian Lobby. It has been
started by prof. Be'la Lipta'k a couple of months ago. If you want to take
a closer look at the activities of the HL, you can:

1, send a mail with your questions to Bela Liptak, mailto:
2, take a look at the HL Digests on news:soc.culture.magyar
3, back issues are available on the WWW at URL
4, or, for anonymous FTP from mineral.umd.edu , in
   pub/hl/archive/ ,   ftp://mineral.umd.edu/pub/hl/archive/

The list is unmoderated, although, participants are asked to conduct
their debates on other forums, such as  or
, in order to keep the mail volume low  -
concentrating rather on pro-Hungarian actions than discussions.

Best regards,
+ - Re: Nation states and knowledge (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Eva S. Balogh wrote:
Joe Szalai obviously took offense at my criticizing his habit of talking
about things he knows little about.

Thus he wrote:

>It seems somewhat pointless to debate the finer points of nation states with
>you, since you have all the answers.


"where do you get that . . . " raised my blood pressure. And as long as you
use such expressions, dont' expect anything better in return.

        Eva Balogh'

This is the same guy who wants me to apologize to you for calling you
Evike'm??!!?? Mr. PC to the rescue. He's tripping over his cape.

What a NUT!!!!!

Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com
+ - English language (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Did anyone watch "The History of The English Language" on PBS, recently or
10years ago?? I liked how it showed the decimation of the Welsh langauge, Long
Scots, Irish Gaelic, and Scots Gaelic language and how a scant few still speak
it, because English is such a "great" language.
Cool stuff!!

Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com
+ - Re: Feb 24 Performance-Tanc Haz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Adjo (ket pontal (ugy mint tok))

Csak veletlenul beneztem computerbe, es hat mit latnak szemeim? (Alig valamit
mert a
szemuvegem bekodosodott a meghatottsagtol.) Szoval nagyon jo nez ki. Remelem
is lesznek akik elolvassak.
      Jo munkat.                                      SOKA (vagy valami
+ - Mardi Gras ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Just in case you missed it...(and, today, you wondered about all those
people around you with dirt on their face :-)
Yesterday, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras, Hu'shagyo' Kedd), was the last day of
the carnival season (Farsang). Today is Ash Wednesday (Hamvazo' Szerda), it
is the first day of the Christian Lent (Bo~jt). The lent ends on the week
before Easter. Below, you can find the dates for Easter, Lent and movable
Feasts associated with Easter and some other Hungarian national holidays.

In Hungary, Easter is a two day holiday ( and was even during the
communist regime - just like Christmas, Dec. 25-26 ), consists of Easter
Sunday and Easter Monday (Hu'svet Vasa'rnap e's Hu'sve't He'tfo" ).

Happy Holidays,

1996 - Readings on Sundays are from Liturgical Year A (Matthew) .

Ash Wednesday is 21 February, 1996
Hungarian National Holiday is Friday, 15 March 1996
Laetare Sunday is 17 March, 1996
Palm/Passion Sunday is 31 March, 1996
Good Friday is 5 April, 1996
Easter Sunday is 7 April, 1996
Easter Monday is 8 April, 1996
Ascension is Thursday, 16 May, 1996
Pentecost is Sunday, 26 May, 1996
Trinity Sunday is 2 June, 1996
Corpus Christi is Thursday, 6 June, 1996
+ - Bokros' resignation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear =C9va Balogh,

You're right about the taxes.  Can you imagine, those receiving 900,000=20
HUF (USD 6,400) are in the top tax bracket of 48 %?  And the cost of=20
living is rising to the point where it is not much lower than in the=20
US, for example.  The high level of taxation is only outdone by the=20
complexity of the new tax law. There are two sets of tax brackets, one=20
only for those who earn "wages", and another for those who have a job=20
on the side (the taxes on the former are lower).  And they're trying to=20
fight the "black economy"!


\_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_=20

James D. Doepp
Department of Economic Theory
University of Miskolc

I must find a truth that is true
for me... the idea for which I=20
can live or die.
-Soren Kierkegaard

\_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_

+ - lachs, lox and lazac (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I understand, so the history of lox is as follows:

Northern (Western) --> German (lachs) --> Yiddish --> English (lox)
Slav               --> Hungarian (lazac)
                   --> English (lachs) only remained with the scottish
                       (just kidding :)

I just call it jewish sushi ;)


\_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_

James D. Doepp
Department of Economic Theory
University of Miskolc

I must find a truth that is true
for me... the idea for which I
can live or die.
-Soren Kierkegaard

\_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_