Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 New Belorussian air defense system (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Where are the Hungarians? (mind)  51 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Gay rights in Romania - again "printre codasii Euro (mind)  53 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Meaning of (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Where are the Hungarians? (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Radio Free Europe (mind)  50 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Slovaks of Hungary (mind)  42 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: SCM: Budapest Airport <--> Railroad station (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
10 RE: Recognizing unfairness (mind)  167 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: An answer for Wally Keeler, but not only... So, ple (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Recognizing unfairness :-O (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: English teaching in Romania (mind)  39 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Where are the Hungarians? (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Slovakia & Sweden (mind)  64 sor     (cikkei)
16 IRC magyarul? (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Recognizing unfairness (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: SCM: Re: Soros (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Interference? (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Racism isn t black and white;) (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: Loosing WWII (was re: ....) (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: An answer for Wally Keeler, but not only... So, ple (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: An answer ... (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: Meaning of "Slav" and "Rus" (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: Slovaks of Hungary (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
26 Muzsikas Itinerary - U.S. Dates (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)

+ - New Belorussian air defense system (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

From the news:
>NEW BELARUSIAN AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM. Belarusian President Alyaksandr
>Lukashenka on 4 December told Interfax that a unique air defense system
>has been developed by the Belarusian military-industrial complex. His
>announcement comes some three months after a U.S. air balloon was shot
>down in Belarusian air space, killing both pilots.

I bet I know what this unique airdefense consists of.  Giant fans and
sling shots, of course.

+ - Re: Where are the Hungarians? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >  (Parker L
im) writes:
>From:  (Parker Lim)
>Subject: Re: Where are the Hungarians?
>Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 15:26:06 GMT

>"Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq" > wrote:
>> While one can actually have a modem connection in most every city, it 
>>may be prohibitevily expensive - even for most folks in the capital; on 
>>the other hand in my experience we country folks speak at least as good 
>>English as those with the dubious luck if living in Budapest ;-). The big 
>>problem is that Usenet connection is very spotty for the whole country.

>I am sorry but during the months I was staying in Hungary (in
>different cities / towns) with my Hungarian friend,  I couldn't find
>anyone who could speak English to me.  I had to learn Hungarian
>instead, which was fine, because I love Hungarian Language and I find
>it the most beautiful language I have ever heard.  

>Even my Hungarian friend told me that there were hardly anyone who
>could make a simple conversation with me in English.  To me, I think
>the problem lies if the educational system there.  Tell me, how can
>one learn English when the teacher in school is teaching English in

interesting.  when last i was in hungary (1978!;-( ), many--including my 
cousins--spoke english.  and fairly well.  now there was an interesting sight 
for the populace.  my cousins wanted to converse with me in english, i with 
them in hungarian.  strangers would ask me, born & raised in the states, where 
i learned to speak _english_ so well!  but i digress...

>I love Gyor and I love Budapest.  I will definitely pay them a visit
>again (4th time) soon....

>Parker Lim

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"ED Beta is simply the best consumer videotape format available."  
       --Video Magazine (Nov.1992, p. 30)
"Manufacturers may have a point when they perceive the U.S. consumer 
    electronics market as unsophisticated." --VideoMaker (March 1993, p. 88)
I opted for Betamax, the world for VHS. I for Amiga, the world for IBM clones.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ - Re: Gay rights in Romania - again "printre codasii Euro (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Mr. Dorin Taranul-Hayseed wrote:
 (Apollonius) wrote:

>>The results left me breathless and once again ashamed of 
>>my own country.
>>Under the current Romanian penal code, Article 200, paragraph 1 
>>imposes a total ban on lesbian and gay relations with a prison 
>>sentence of 1 to 5 years for any gay or lesbian sexual relationship.

>I agree, 1 to 5 years for homosexual activities is hard punishment
>indeed ,...

To put homosexuals in jail, among other men/women, is a harsh punishment? 
Are you kiding me, Mr.? It's like putting them in paradise - and at
taxpayers' expense in top of that! ;-)

>... yet, in all fairness, it is a much lighter sentence than the
>one required by the Bible:
>	"If a man lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them
> 	 have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to
>        death; their blood shall be upon them."  [Leviticus 20.13]

And how does your Big Book sanction the disobeying of the biblical order 
- somethimes by even creating the best "conditions" that lead to 
breaching it - especially in the Biblic Republic of Romania?
Just hope that the Allmighty will look down upon and sodomo-gomoraize you
for not following the 'righteous path' ad literam.
So guys/gals enjoy the 1-5 years vacation and have sex each night, and 
when that's not possible, touch yourself always bearing in mind the 
chobby boxom of our Parinte Teoctist. He, he, he...

>>As the old say/lozinca goes: citeste si da mai departe/ read and pass 
>>it on.
>By all means!
>Dorin Taranul

I'll leave this one to Wally. He is our expert in poematomazation of 
those hayseeds that do not follow ad literam the inquiz-administration of 
strict biblical orders. Just hope he will show some mercyfulness towards 
your soul.

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+ - Re: Meaning of (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andre Kowalczyk > wrote:

>Correct! Also, the Anglo-German word is derived from Latin and
>Greek. Latin Sclavus stands for Slav and slave.

Yes. This is how I've understood it. The word "slav" is familiar
with "slovo", but got it's other meaning in one historical
period when slavs become popular slaves in Old Rome.

Jorma Kyppö

+ - Re: Meaning of "Germany" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Martin Ott) wrote:
>As I understand from my trips to Russia and Poland,
>the root of the slavic words for `German' (niemcy, nemetski) 
>       - dumb
>       - incapable of speaking
>       - speechless
>       - without a tongue
>    Martin (incapable to discuss in Polish or Russian)
There is another, quite convincing ethymology of the word:
										Niemcy  (Germans)
The word can stem from >> nie my << , which means >> not us <<.
Compare with >>niemy<< (dumb).
Personally I lean toward >>nie my<< interpretation. Slavic and German 
tribes fought with each other for dominance in Central Europe. German 
spoke a language that differed from the old west Slavonic, common for
all Slavonic tribes on the territories between Elbe, Bug river and Alps 
in the south. Their religious believs were distinct as well. In fight or 
in trade Germans were certainly not dumb.


Piotr Wnukowski
+ - Re: Where are the Hungarians? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Yes, I agree, when I was there this summer I noticed also that
most people are down with their outlook of life.  It was the
first time for me to go back ever, I left with my parents when
I was 12 and that was 14 years ago.  I fell more secure in USA
than in Hungary, as I told most people there, I would rather be
a poor or middle class person in USA than rich or upper class in
Hungary, you would still have to breed the same air as everyone 
else and deal with crime, even more so if you are rich.

Even if you cna afford 3-5 body guards, limo excort and all that
I would not live there...  Maybee its because the capital...
But still, it's a small - weak country, if attacked it would be
taken over fast and NO ONE would come rescue it...  

Well, thats just what I think, I don't have to be right.


* A3000,68030-20Mhz,            http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~tibor/
* 18Mb,1Gig,Emplant,NetBSD            email: 
+ - Re: Radio Free Europe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Chris Bussler) wrote:
>I am writing a magazine article about the radio station Radio Free
>Europe, which were based in Munich, Germany, and now are located in
>Prague, Czech Republic. Therefore, I would like to talk to (i. e.
>exchange some mails with) somebody who listened to RFE during the Cold
>War or still listens to it today. I would be interested in how it
>influenced you personally and the political environment and society as
>a whole in Eastern European states.
>I would be very thankful if somebody could tell me about his
>best wishes,

I don't know what the situation was in Eastern Europeans states.
But I could share with you what it was like in Czechoslovakia, if
you are interested. When I was a little boy we lived in Moravia,
a land in the middle of the country that found itself, after the
Communist coup d'etat, too fast in the grips of rather underdeveloped
and technologically backward East Europe, a sharp contrast  from
enjoying one of the highest standards of life in the world (the 7th
before WWII - but perhaps even higher after the end ot the war when
the economy was booming).

All of a sudden there was no free press. People could not read the
newspapers with the exception of the last pages that dealt with
sports. On any other page there was just pure propaganda and lies
nausiating your stomac. For people used to finding information either
in the papers or by listning to the radio, there was no recource - that
is domestic.

The sudden void was quickly filled by both Radio Free Europe and
Voice of America stations (before, during the Nazi occupation. it
was the London Calling radio station). I remember my parents
trying to get the daily news from both radio stations. This proved
very difficult at times since both stations were later heavily jammed.
But my parents, and as far as I know just anybody, listen to their
broadcast every day. And the news delivered by both stations
spread with a lighning-like speed.

So thanks to both the RFE and VOC,  the country remained
informed al the time!

-- Jerry
+ - Re: Slovaks of Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Peter Hakel  > wrote:
>  That theory is strange indeed. How could a whole nation move from 
>Croatia to Slovakia through and/or into territory inhabited by another 
>nation? And what happened to "Greater Moravians?"  
>  It's a non-sense, IMHO.

It may be, but I looked into my notes again, and refreshed my memory
about the proponents of that theory.

One of them was Matej/Matyas Bel, writing in a book published in Levoce
in 1718.  In it he placed a high probability on the Slovaks' origin being
somewhere in Illiria (there I go again with another Out-of-Illiria
theory!)  Then there was Jan Auerbahn and Jaromir Korcak who thought
that Slovak's have typical South-Slavic characteristics.  The Slovak
Samuel Czambel also considered Slovak a South-Slavic language.

Then there is some reference in Constantin Porphyrogenitos' DAI about
the years after the Hungarian conquest indicating that the Slavs living
in various parts of Hungary were settled in the northern part by the
Hungarian rulers.

Anyway, I think this may turn out to be an erroneous theory, but hardly
a non-sense.

> But I heard another theory, it's about the origin of Slovenians. They 
>are said to be descendants of the Pannonia Slavs, who inhabitted 
>territories around the Balaton. That's where Prince Pribina fled after 
>Mojmir expelled him from Nitra. The arrival of Hungarians separated 
>today's Slovaks from today's Slovenians, who, eventually became two 
>nations instead of former one. This explains almost identical names of 
>these two nations. And Slovenians are culturally more Western Slavic 
>than Southern (Yugo) Slavic.

Yes, but if this was true then the Slovenes would show north-Slav
characteristics, instead of the Slovaks showing southern ones.
>  Any comments welcome, as usual.

Well, you've got a mouthfull to chew on now. ;-)

+ - Re: SCM: Budapest Airport <--> Railroad station (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

: Another note--there really isn't a "main" railroad station in Budapest.
:  There's a southern station, a western one, and an eastern one, all of which
: offer service to different locations domestically and internationally.  Check
: with the people at the airport as to which station you should leave from,
: depending on where you want to go.
: --Shannon

The easiest thing is to jump on one of the minibuses the airport company
runs, which take people direct to where they want to go. Avoid the hyena
taxi drivers as they'll make up a figure, all the bigger if you're
obviously foreign. If you're a bit strapped for cash there's a bus to Deak
ter, the public transport hub, too.


David Evans                                         Worcester College, Oxford
Residential: 01865-511361				  Mobile: 0585-111680
International: +44-1865-511361		       International:  +44-585-111680
+ - RE: Recognizing unfairness (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

From:  ()

>Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.romanian
>Subject: Re: Recognizing unfairness
>He started off, with what else, a lame personal attack, calling my postings
>self-servingly a "drivel":
>>     Far less ridiculous than you sound when you post your drivel, but
>> that hasn't stoped you yet, has it?
>Why does he bother to answer in such long tirades to somebody whose
>writings he considers a drivel?

Because even if your theories and argumentation may be foolish or
intelligent, it is important not to leave the people with the impression
that you may be right just by repeating over and over the same thing.

>Your Prince Michael just got too cocky and ruthless, eventually alienating
>even his former allies.  No wonder he ended up the way he did.

Justifying treason and murder ?

>> If you don't think that your migration theory requires "tens of
>> thousands" of people migrating in every year over several centuries,
>> please tell us how few people you think could have pulled it off.  And
>> then, perhaps, you could also tell us why you don't take your argument to
>> its logical conclusion: that, since so few Romanains could do so much
>> against such odds, Romanians are clearly the Master Race.
>Since you are only a lawyer, I can understand that the concept of
>compounded interest might be beyond your comprehension.  It's too bad,
>because it might give you a hint how even a relatively small percentage
>of interest can multiplay the original amount quite handsomely over just
>a few decades.  Now consider human reproduction, especially at a time when
>women were kept pregnant during most of their fertile years (no
>contraception, no abortions then!)  Even with the high mortality rate, it
>still produced quite a few offsprings per copuple who reached adulthood.

Did hungarians used contraceptives or practiced abortions at that time ?
What did stopped them to multiply with the same ratio ?
Plains are more fertile than high-grounds.
And in most of the countries of Europe plains were more populous
than high-grounds.

>One should look at modern day examples of how even relatively small rate
>of immigration by a highly reproductive ethnic group can make a noticable
>presence in the population just in a few decades.

Your analogy with modern day's immigration is not viable.
Do you think that social assistance, working permits, organizations that
assist immigrants, laws that protects them against xenofobia did exist
1000 years ago ?

>Just look at the
>high visibility of Turks in Germany these days.  They sure did not migrate
>to Germany by the tens of thousand for hundreds of years to Germany.

I think you choosed a bad example. This has been possible in our days.
But you don't even have to go back 1000 or 200 years back, you just need
to go back in 1930 and ask yourself if Turks or other nationalities could
have immigrate in Germany.
Why didn't Turks immigrated in Germany or in any other western country
and to becamed a "visible" minority at that time ?

>Most of them are young and already born in Germany.

How do you know that "most" of them are "young and already born in Germany"?

>>     Hogwash.  Either present-day Romania was empty when the Magyars
>> came, or else it wasn't.  If a people lived there, then, according to
>> your migration theory, Romanians displaced them.  You have posted
>> countless times that Romaninains DID NOT displace anyone in settling
>> Wallachia and Moldavia.  So, what happened to these aboriginal,
>> non-displaced, non-Romanian people?  How did a few shephard clans replace
>> them?  Who were these natives.  Where did they come from?
>Another nonsense by Bossy.  Whom are the Turks displacing in Germany?
>Or the Chinese wherever they go?

Your reasoning is based on a flawed analogy between medieval migrations
and modern time "migrations".

>              ... Why should a people of shephard life
>style displace plain dwelling populations?  They can simply coexist and
>compliment each other.

1. Because the shepards had to come down to the plains if they were to
overwhelm numerically populations that also lived on the plains.
If they came as shepards and stayed shepards, in our days they would be
an insignificant minority. As I mentionned before, plains are more
fertile, they allow to nurish more people. And they were, and today
still are , more populous than high grounds.
So if they came down from the mountains they either encountered
desert lands or they had to fight their way among the "foreigners".

2. It would be very hard to believe that massive populations
movements could take place without fighting. Why all the nomadic tribes
had to fight their way in Europe ? Couldn't they just peacefully sneak
in someone else territories ? Considering the enormous blood shed
on the occasion of the barbaric invasions I think not.

>You don't know what folks dwelled in Wallachia and Moldavia before the
>Mongol invasions?  Haven't you heard of the Cumans and Petchenegs?
>That's who!

Isn't it because of their warrior incursions that documents mention
their presence ? Do you think their deeds would have been recorded
if they stayed idle and avoided fighting by retreating in the woods or
in the mountains ?

> ... They were also pretty much wiped out by the Mongol invasion,
>opening up new areas for the Wlachs to move in from south of the Danube
>to join the few who broke the path earlier, no doubt.

Why would Vlachs move in such a dangerous area, exposed to the attacks
of the mongols ?

>> Why could they be replaced so easily that there are no records or folk
>> memories of their existance, let alone their replacement exit?
>Who said there was no record of Cumans and Petchenegs in that area?
>You mean just because YOU didn't know about them then there couldn't be?

I think Alexander meant that there are no records of such populations
being defeated/conquered by the "migratory" Vlachs.

>I tell you what:  why don't we both stop posting about it and let's
>instead tune in to guys who really know this stuff:  Liviu, Jeliko, *S*,
>and who ever might come up later.  After all we both are only amateurs in
>this, aren't we?

Lets try to keep things in perspective. The postings that I have read
originating from Cristian Tomescu, Jeliko, Liviu, Alexander are very
intersting and seem well documented, but I don't think you should
"officialize" them as the "authorities" in medieval history.
They are also amateurs.
Of course pretty advanced and it's selfevident that they spent a lot of
time browsing through all kind of references.
But nobody should illude himself thinking that what is posted on s.c.r
or s.c.m is concludent about the scientific debate concerning the
history of romanians.
So please don't give as reference what Liviu or Jeliko says or thinks
about a particular issue. I am sure that you are able to provide coherent
arguments on your own and when you are not I am sure you will simply admit
the limits of your knowledge.

>Joe Pannon

Cristian Alb
+ - Re: An answer for Wally Keeler, but not only... So, ple (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (D. Marinescu) wrote:

>what is my people doing there???enlighten me ...
>strife is going to happen if they let people like you to freely roam the 
>i know a few romanians sharing  your mental illness and i truly believe that 
>they should put all of you in a crazy house and lose the key for good.

The fact that it's the Romanians doing the persecution in Erde'ly is what gets
to me: certainly in Hungary, we do not enforce interlaced Romanian/Hungarian
housing just so that we can spy on the neighbours. And yet this is exactly what
is going on in Transylvania.  It's not the Hungarians that are paranoid, mate.

For God's sake, people are not even allowed to have Hungarian coats of arms or
pennants inside their houses for fear of retribution.

My relatives in Transylvania speak both Romanian and Hungarian because they
know that their business activities (e.g. in Bucharest) cannot take place
otherwise.  The resentment arises when Hungarian is _outlawed_, with (Romanian)
neighbours reporting Hungarian speakers to police.  Oh, pardon me if I don't
give you the reference number of the official police policy on this matter; but
I think it's filed next to the Afro-American policy in Los Angeles ...

>what hungarian territories??? have you ever asked yourself why Hungary is 
>at odds with most of its neighbours?? romanians, slovaks, serbs,etc????

You know what I meant - those parts of Slovakia that used to be Hungarian.
Besides, I suppose those countries are nice and chummy with all others???  No
hard feelings, we'll all just take our independence and go.

>take a pill or get a girl to relax you man.... 

Well, physician, how much do I owe you for such wise and witty counsel?
+ - Re: Recognizing unfairness :-O (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Hermes  > wrote:
>On 2 Dec 1995, Gabor Barsai wrote:
>> I don't recall the Magyars speaking Latin.
>The Kings records seem to have been kept in Latin ! They must not
>have developed an alphabet on Zog ;=))

Why should they have developed an alphabet? The Zog people communicated with
each other in unintelligable grunts and moans. Hence, nobody understood them on
Earth. They were civilized by the advancing Romans, who came from South of the
Danube. Hence, some of the "locals" took up a Latin based language, and the
Latin alphabet. Since THESE Zogs were quite intelligent, they took up Latin in
a matter of days.
The one's that weren't civilized were assimilated by the Magyars, advancing
from the East. THESE Zogs were not so intelligent, and continued to "speak" to
each other in grunts, thus the Slovak saying "Talking like a Magyar" ie. to
talk nonsense.

I hope this cleared up the whole concept. ;-O

+ - Re: English teaching in Romania (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Tim O'Neill) wrote:
>Hello folks,
>I intend to travel to Romania and the rest of Eastern Europe
>late in 1996 and  I hope to pick up English teaching work 
>there.  I have an MA in English, several years tertiary teaching
>experience and by that stage I will have a Cambrige/RSA 
>certificate.  Can anyone who has experience and advice on what to do,
>contacts etc to help me get work in Romania etc. please
>email me on .
>Thanks in advance,
>Tim O'Neill
>Tasmanian Devil

Tim, whatever you do while in Romania, make sure you don't wear any 
clothing with a national flag stiched on it or display any national 
flags in general.  You should also be careful about singing (I would even 
restrain from humming) any national anthems.

Believe it or not, the majority of the deputies of the Romanian 
Parliament, and the President have thought that displaying a foreign flag 
or singing a foreign national anthem were so dangerous to the very 
existence of Romania that they passed a law that makes doing those things 
a criminal offense, punishable by up to 3 years in jail.  

The law is most likey going to stay on their books, since a recent 
attempt to modify it failed in the Romanian Parliament.  

You can, of course, travel freely in the rest of the ex-socialist bloc 
without that specific danger.

Have a nice trip.

Charles Vamossy
+ - Re: Where are the Hungarians? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Parker Lim > wrote:
>I am sorry but during the months I was staying in Hungary (in
>different cities / towns) with my Hungarian friend,  I couldn't find
>anyone who could speak English to me.  I had to learn Hungarian
>instead, which was fine, because I love Hungarian Language and I find
>it the most beautiful language I have ever heard.

Well I think you were looking at the wrong places. Szeged and Debrecen are 
University (student) cities, and it is relatively simple to find someone with a
decent English proficiency. Anyhow I'm happy that you took up the difficult 
task of learning Hungarian, and you like it. For some reason residents of 
Budapest think that anything from the countryside is lower in quality and 
value. That is not true. Budapest is not the best. Only the biggest.
+ - Re: Slovakia & Sweden (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe writes:

>>It may be difficult to determine the exact proportion of pre-16th century
>>to post-16th century Slovaks in Hungary, however we do know that it was
>>Maria Theresa's policy to repopulate Slovak settlements in Hungary with
>>"immigrant" Slovaks as you put it to form a continuus presence, perhaps
>>that also explains as to why your predecessors chose to resettle there :-)
>Actually, we can hardly speak about repopulation of same settlements,

Actually, we can talk plenty about Maria Theresa's policies.

>because in most cases it can easily be verified what ethnics lived at a
>given area before the Ottoman era.  In the two villages in the region I

Aside from the turkish tax records, not much written material survived
the Ottoman rule within Hungary, the provenance of surviving manuscripts
in several cases falls outside Hungary's actual territory, whereas in
the central parts of medieval Hungary the Turkish rulers destroyed
cultural material to such extent that, for instance, we cannot produce
a single note of Hungarian secular music from the period prior to 1500,
since the extant manuscripts are insufficient to prove the mere existance
of an independent Hungarian dialect of Gregorian style.

>was born, the population used to be Hungarian before the Turks
>depopulated them.  Baranya county in So. Hungary (around the city of

Which two villages are you referring to specifically?

>Pecs) is more known for its German and Serb/Croation ethnics than

No argument with that, the Szegedin documents of 1553/1554 indicate
that there were 32 exclusively Serbian settlements and the same is
written about Bacsa (Becs) with 70 settlements, then there were
German settlements in the Mohacs sandzak, but that does not speak to
against fact that Slovak settlements existed as far south as Pecs.

>Slovaks.  The largest Slovak settlement in Hungary, Bekescsaba, just
>celebrated the 250th anniversary of its settlements by Slovaks.  While I

Sure, though Bekescsaba was a swamp before being cleared for settlement
some 250 years ago so it is not likely that it would have been inhabited
prior to being cleared by the Slovak settlers, but that doesn't adresss
the settlements, which were already settled by Slovaks during turkish rule.

>do know of Slovak settlements originating from that era, I don't know of
>any that date from before the 17th century.  Not that they don't exist,
>but are not typical inside today's Hungary.

Actually, sources indicating otherwise were already presented for your
elucidation in reference to the early 16th century you may find Velics-
Kammerer's Magyarorsza'gi to"ro"k defterek, vol I covers 1543-1635, vol II
covers 1540-1639 and in which can be found the citation "of the citizens
about half have slavic names" on pg 145, which should be no great surprise
since some of these settlements were settled by Pribina from Nitra in
the timeframe of the IX century as is indicated in Church documents
specifically mentioning the consecration of Churches for Pribina.

Also Ludwig Fekete's Tuerkische Schriften aus dem Archive des Palatins
Nikolaus Eszterhazy 1606-45 Budapest 1932 covers the early 17th century
and To"ro"k vila'gutazo' Magyarorsza'gutaza'sai, vol I, 1660-1664 and
vol II, 1664-1666, Budapest 1904, 1908 cover the mid-17th century.

All disclaimers apply. Not speaking for Ford.
+ - IRC magyarul? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sorry to mislead y'all w/ the Hungarian subject line - I don't speak
but a few words of the (fascinating) language.

Anyway, I _do_ want to learn some Hungarian, but a shortage of time and
contacts w/ native speakers here at the U of Illinois has prompted me
to look for a schedule-friendly solution to tutorial.  My sister-in-law,
a Pole, is on IRC's "polska" and "Polonia" channels a lot, and I was 
wondering if there was something similar for Hungarians and their
language.  If you are an avid Hungarian-language IRC participant, please
let me know when and where you most often log on.  BTW, would a beginner
even be welcome amongst the Hungarians on the channel?

Well, that's all I wanted to know.  Thanks in advance for your time
and attention.


Ray Meredith

+ - Re: Recognizing unfairness (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Liviu Iordache, the famous historian, linguist, literary critic, 
philosopher & moralist, has recently added anthropology to his 
formidable orchestra of "violons d'Ingres."  

::I can think of several hundred nations that love the forest,  the
::mountain, and the nature, nations that at some point in their history
::sought shelter in remote areas. [...]

Name them!
+ - Re: SCM: Re: Soros (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Speaking of the Soros Foundation, has anyone participated in any of its
programs?  I'm a grad student in ESL, my mother is Hungarian, and I'd really
like to work in Hungary for a few years after I graduate.  In short, would
applying for an English teaching position through the Soros Foundation be
a good idea/experience/whatever?

Thanks in advance for your time and attention.


Ray Meredith

: Here's the long sought-after address of the Soros Foundation, at least
: according to my WWW browser:
: Soros Foundation-Hungary
: H-1525 Budapest, POB 34
: Budapest, Hungary H-1014
: tel:  (36 1) 202 6211
: fax:  (36 1) 175 7767
: e-mail:  
: Mr. Miklos Vasarhelyi, President of the Board of Directors
: Ms. Eva Bakonyi, Executive Director

:In the past, I've found some of their Web info to be outdated,but it's worth
:a try.

: --Shannon Morris
+ - Re: Interference? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe asks:

>> The domestic nationalities and ethnic organizations do not even know
>>who works in these institutions. And in reverse: perhaps not even these
>>collectives are familiar with the demands of (Hungary's) nationalities.
>So how do you know they have the demand for it in the first place?

The citation was cited from an article published by the Slovak minority
in Hungary on 22.11. 1995 in the newspaper Ludove noviny, and was titled
"In the interest of the real politics for the nationalities".

All disclaimers apply. Not speaking for Ford.
+ - Re: Racism isn t black and white;) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Jorma Kyppo > wrote:

>This is crossposted in 3 newsgroups.

Why ??  You're not satisfied getting flamed in only one?

Karl Pollak               FidoNet 1:153/965
Richmond, B.C.            Canadian Infomaticon BBS
+ - Re: Loosing WWII (was re: ....) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

ibokor > wrote:
>Basically, Hungary backed one
>of the sides in World War II and it was the losing side. The English
>expression "to back a losing horse" means to bet on one which does not win
>anything for the gambler.

Imi's profound observation reminds me what happened to me on my last trip to
the race track: I ,too, bet on the wrong horse.

Imi, what's your secret in picking the winners?

+ - Re: An answer for Wally Keeler, but not only... So, ple (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


>Indeed, Mr. Christian, there is peace between the two countries, thanks 
>be to God!  Let's hope that nothing will change that.

Relax, nothing will change that.  Romania has no reasons to attack
Hungary and Hungary doesn't have the balls to attack Romania.  The peace
between the two countries is stable, no matter how tense the relations
between them might become in the future (let's hope they'll actually

If a war will start between Hungary and Romania, it will be a cold war.

Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
+ - Re: An answer ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 5 Dec 1995  wrote:

> Hermes  > wrote:
> >Although I am not religious, I would not hesitate to call Mr. Funar and
> >Mr. Tokes the very tools of a modern day Devil bend on spreading mischief.
> What a transparent ploy from Hermes to appear even handed by equating
> Tokes with Funar!  Who the hell he thinks he is kiddin'?
> Joe

Well Joe, pray tell how is Mr. Tokes better than Mr. Funar ? How is one
less awfull than the other. They are the Scilla and the Caribda of 
nationalist politics in Transylvania. They are both just as arrogant,  
they are both playing out their spite and frustrations, and think of 
personal  political gain more than the interest of the community they
should serve by virtue of their office.
It is people like you Joe, that like to gloat when pointing fingers at
villains that happen to be Romanian, and would lay and fornicate with the 
devil himself if it served their interest. If they happen to be Hungarian,
well, that's an extra bonus.
Face it, the fruits of such an unholly act of moral copulation can only
resemble the ones being presently harvested in Bosnia.

m. cristian
+ - Re: Meaning of "Slav" and "Rus" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Alexander Goykhman USG ) wrote:
>  (Pavel Afanasiev) wrote:
> >I'm 1/3 jew.
> Just because one may have been conceived in a threesome...

Back in Russia I remember a guy fretting his life over
a problem when number of sexes and ploidy both go to
infinity. He told me that even more weird things are

{ the following appendum is a Cauchy random variable }

Mozhno legko zametit', chto ya sovershenno ne pytayus'
otgorodit'sya ot naroda, a naprotiv, otdayu vse svobodnoe
vremya tyazhkim usiliyam nauchit' Sharikovyh ne plevat'
na pol, ne hamit' i pol'zovat'sya salfetkoi za trapezoi.
+ - Re: Slovaks of Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 6 Dec 1995  wrote:

> One of them was Matej/Matyas Bel, writing in a book published in Levoce
> in 1718.  In it he placed a high probability on the Slovaks' origin being
> somewhere in Illiria (there I go again with another Out-of-Illiria
> theory!)  Then there was Jan Auerbahn and Jaromir Korcak who thought
> that Slovak's have typical South-Slavic characteristics.  The Slovak
> Samuel Czambel also considered Slovak a South-Slavic language.

  I think that Czech and Slovak are exceptionally close languages. Do 
those people consider Czech a South-Slavic language too?


> > But I heard another theory, it's about the origin of Slovenians. They 
> >are said to be descendants of the Pannonia Slavs, who inhabitted 
> >territories around the Balaton. That's where Prince Pribina fled after 
> >Mojmir expelled him from Nitra. The arrival of Hungarians separated 
> >today's Slovaks from today's Slovenians, who, eventually became two 
> >nations instead of former one. This explains almost identical names of 
> >these two nations. And Slovenians are culturally more Western Slavic 
> >than Southern (Yugo) Slavic.
> Yes, but if this was true then the Slovenes would show north-Slav

  And don't they?

> characteristics, instead of the Slovaks showing southern ones.

  I see your point, and I think you exaggerate.

> Joe

Peter Hakel
+ - Muzsikas Itinerary - U.S. Dates (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


DATES               CITY             ST  VENUE
03/15/96            NEW YORK         NY  SYMPHONY SPACE
03/16/96            CHICAGO          IL  OLD TOWN SCHOOL OF FOLK MUSIC
03/17/96            MADISON          WI  FIRST UNITARIAN MEETING HOUSE
03/18/96            SEATTLE          WA  THE BACKSTAGE 
03/19/96            BERKELEY         CA  FREIGHT & SALVAGE 
03/22/96            SANTA MONICA     CA  McCABE'S GUITAR SHOP 
03/23/96            PITTSBURGH       PA  CARNEGIE LECTURE HALL 
03/24/96            VIENNA           VA  THE BARNS AT WOLFTRAP
03/30/96            SOMERVILLE       MA  SOMERVILLE THEATER

          ** BA: CONCERTED EFFORTS, INC. **

               RC:  HANNIBAL/RYKODISC