Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 609
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-03-16
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Reserved tables (mind)  98 sor     (cikkei)
2 Employmen in Hungary (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
3 anti-fascist movement (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
4 AUSTRALIAN HUNGARIAN NEEDS Hungarians to talk to (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Kudasz (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Reserved tables (mind)  59 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Liberals say the darndest things! (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Pat Buchanan (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: AUSTRALIAN HUNGARIAN NEEDS Hungarians to talk to (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Reserved tables (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Reserved tables (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Pat Buchanan (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Reserved tables (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Just a footnote to today's Hungary Report (mind)  88 sor     (cikkei)
15 Pal Cseresznyes (mind)  211 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Reserved tables (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Pat Buchanan (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Reserved tables (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Joe Szalai
> says:
>
>At 05:31 PM 3/13/96 -0500, George Szaszvari wrote:
>
>>I'm just suspicious of the seemingly sanctimonious comments and
>>apparent surprise at relating so-called amusing stories about this
>>sort of discrimination. Surely you haven't lived such sheltered lives
>>that it can be called *amusing* or *despicable*? Please correct me
>>if I'm wrong!
>>
>>Okay, Joe, you wanted some vigorous debate, so let's rock 'n roll! :-)
>
>First of all, I'm honoured to have this dance with you.  You're the second
>man in the last little while who's wanted to dance (cyberdance?) with me.
>My last dance, with John Czifra, didn't go so well.  We both wanted to lead
>and we kept bumping our foreheads together.  It turned into a mentally
>bruising and intellectually numbing experience.   We were supposed to Tango
>and Csardas but we just kept going around and around and around.  Those
>dances are a bit more complex than just spinning around like silly little
>tops?  Aren't they?  Anyway, this dance can't be any worse than the last
>one.  So let's go!

Chuckle...How about one leads one moment, the other leads the next and
so on, like, er, take turns? All the bruising isn't really necessary  :-)

>I must admit that I was surprised when I read Eva Balogh's post on
>"Reserved" tables.  I was surprised because I didn't realize that that sort
>of thing went on, and I was surprised by Eva's lack of criticism of "this
>device".  Granted, she used exlamaion marks, and I take that to be a sign of
>protest.  But is that it?  Just an exclamation mark?   An exclamation mark
>(!) is used after an exclamation but an exclamation could be one of delight.
>I was surprised and disappointed.
>
>Do I live a sheltered life because I didn't know that that kind of
>discrimination goes on in Hungary?  Perhaps.  But it might also have
>something to do with living in Canada.   No doubt there are Canadians who
>discriminate.  Probably too many.  But Canada is very multi-cultural and
>multi-racial and that kind of discrimination in a restaurnat could not
>happen.  It wouldn't be worth anyone's time to even try.  Restaurants can
>and do take reservations, and they can have dress codes (no shirt, no shoes,
>no service).  But that's it.

Keep going, I'm learning something about Canada. Seems like a very
egalitarian and idyllic place. I have contact with an Hungarian in
Toronto: the wife of a now retired police officer (named Horvath) is a
friend of my mother's from years back in the *old country* and stays with
us on visits to Britain (still writes frequently, too.) The Horvaths like
Canada a lot! But don't Canadians have their own special problems, e.g.,
French speakers v English speakers in certain areas? How about going into
an eating house in Quebec and ordering in English? I've also read about
Native Canadians having shoot-outs with the local police/gendarmerie
(incurring fatalities) over rights issues, etc.

>The kind of discrimination that Eva writes about can only happen if society
>allows it to happen.  There must be a general consensus that it's OK to
>discriminate, regardless of what the 'law' might say.  I am disappointed
>that Hungary is such a society.  The fact that it happens in many other
>societies as well, is no reason for rejoicing.

No rejoicing, just realism. To put Hungary in perspective, let's compare
her neighbours. Romania and Slovakia: I vote Hungary the more equitable,
on average, easily, even though I have good friends and relatives from
these places. Austria and Slovenia are another matter. Austria's great
if one has money (and isn't Jewish: I'm not, but I wouldn't like to live
in Austria if I were, but that's a whole new can of worms.) Slovenia I've
only travelled through cursorily, but have a great Slovenian friend who
stays at my place when in London. Slovenes, on the whole, I like. Their
independence! Croats and Serbs I like too, (but not the thugs.) As far
as being a discriminatory society is concerned, Hungary compares well
with her neighbours, don't you think? I'd compare Hungary pretty favourably
with Britain too, but then I'm probably much more aware of the horrendous
injustices that are regularly perpetrated in Britain today, rather than odd
few I hear about in Hungary. I've also had my differences with people of
all races and creeds, but I realize that it's a mistake to just blanket
blame, say, all blacks, just because a few black skinned morons beat up
my mother! I've had some very good black friends, too. I know a lot of
people wouldn't be so fair minded about these things: they can't think it
through or their life understanding/experience is too shallow, leading to
foolish discriminatory practices. On the other hand not all discrimination
is always wrong! Overzealous politically correct fiends can give me brain
damage, too!

>Are you still suspicious of my surprise?

Not really, now that you've told me how lucky you are to live in an
environment that is largely free of all the crap that I regularly come
across...I need to visit Canada and perhaps organize some immigration
papers :-)

Regards,

George

George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
* Independent Commodore Products Users' Group UK * C=64 stuff wanted *
* ACCU ** ARM Club ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list *
+ - Employmen in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Can anyone help me in finding employment with an American firm in
Hungary!!?

I live in the USA, however I am fluent in Hungarian, and would love to
live there for a few years. I am an Architect by profession, but also have
an CNE degree. I  also have over 14 years of business experience, both in
Europe and the US.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thank you!
+ - anti-fascist movement (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I'm sorry, I accidently deleted the message to
which I'm responding, I think it was Eva Balogh
saying that the anti-fascist movement in Hungary
was non-existent.  It was small to compare
to a lot of other places unfortunately, nevertheless
there was one, mostly communist and soc/dem lead.
Just becouse a lot of it's participants became
the leaders of the stalinist takover after the war
and probably shaped historical facts to their favour,
doesn't mean, that that movement can be denied,
that wouldn't be fair on those who died and were
tortured.
(And ofcourse there were loads of people who risked their
lives hiding refugees, etc.)
Eva Durant
+ - AUSTRALIAN HUNGARIAN NEEDS Hungarians to talk to (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi,


I don't really know very much of what I have stumbled unto, but I know
that I have been looking for something like this for a very long time.

I am a university student in Perth, at U.W.A. doing computer science. My
name is Gabor Kollo, and I moved here some seven years ago. Due to my
name, I often find the company of Hungarians of my own age not accessible.
I know a few but they are all stuck up dickheads...

I would really appreciate if someone wrote to me, perhaps in Hungarian, as
my father still lives in Hungary and any news of his world would be great!

Koszonom az idodet...

Gabor
--
Mr Gabor Kollo, , First Year Student
+ - Re: Kudasz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Greg Kudasz
> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have found a couple of links on the web with my last name on them. I know
> next to nothing about my Hungarian heritage thanks in part to an introverted
> father who came here from Budapest in 1954. I'm not even sure how prevalent
> "Kudasz" is in Hungary.
>
> If you can provide a translation or any info about the following links I'd
> be grateful.
>
> thanks
>
Hey, my name is Gabor, and I am Hungarian, having come here some seven
years ago. Kudasz is a fairly popular sirname, it also has a dash on the
A. should you want to know more anything, mail me,..

> http://garfield.sote.hu/sote/tt_ersebp.html
> http://agy.bgytf.hu/public/keletm/doc/96_6_3.html
--
Mr Gabor Kollo, , First Year Student
+ - Re: Reserved tables (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

A few days ago when a friend thanked me for my rigorous defense of
Hungarian Jewry I wrote to him that I can't stand two things: injustice and
ignorance. Of cource, I am not crazy about people of ill will either, but,
for the time being, let just stick with ignorance.

        This list happens to concern itself with the politics, economics,
and culture of Hungary and Hungarians and therefore I would expect that
someone so active on this list actually took the trouble to learn something
about these matters before mouthing off. However, that is definitely not the
case with Joe Szalai: he just talks and talks and talks. Pontificates to be
more precise without knowing a darn thing about Hungarian politics. I would
strongly suggest to undertake some study of daily politics in Hungary--that
is, if he wants to remain a viable discussant on this list.


>Yes.  I have a very good idea of her general approach to such issues.  Her
>approach is to speak a good line, to renounce discrimination, and then go on
>to support political parties in Hungary whose economic policies drive a
>wedge between people.

        Yes, according to Eva Durant all parties in Hungary drive an
economic wedge between people with the possible exception of the
Munkaspart--the unreformed communist party. However, I don't think that too
many people on this list would support the Munkaspart. A few months ago we
had a brief appearance of a newspaperman from Hungary who claimed to be a
spokesman of the Munkaspart, but he disappeared without trace. Perhaps he
didn't find the atmosphere hospitable. Since I can't possibly consider the
Munkaspart a viable party in Hungary, I must settle for one of those other
evil parties which drive an economic wedge between people.

>I know that the MDF, or whatever party she supports,
>did not create anti-gypsy or anti-anything feelings, but it's policies have
>not helped either.  It all depends on your priorities.

        And here Joe shows his real ignorance. First of all, I don't support
any Hungarian party by either being a member or giving them cash donations.
Moreover, according to Hungarian law although I am a dual citizen I am
unable to vote in Hungarian elections. Therefore, my sympathies have no
practical value whatsoever. So, remains my sympathies. If Joe decided to
listen a little instead of incessantly spouting off he couldn't possible
come to the conclusion that my favorite party must be the MDF. As for
anti-Gypsy, anti-anything feelings there are plenty of those in the MDF,
especially now, after the split up of the party. And George Antony rightly
pointed out that Mr. Istvan Csurka, the openly antisemite leader of MIEP
(Magyar Igazsag es Elet Partja), was for over two years an MDF delegate to
parliament. A lot of people feel that Prime Minister Jozsef Antall's
hesitancy concerning his ouster did a lot of damage to his party, the MDF.


>Now George, if you'd stop hyper-ventilating, and relaxed a little bit, you
>would be able to understand what I wrote.

        And please cut out these offensive sentences from your sterling
prose. George Antony happens to be one of the best long-standing members of
this group. He was here when I joined and extended his welcome. That was
more than two years go. And I thank him now for defending me against these
baseless accusations.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Liberals say the darndest things! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:

>Says who?  Do I have no free will or choice in the matter?  Perhaps
another
>line from Nietzsche will help you.  "Does wisdom perhaps appear on the
earth
>as a raven which is inspired by the smell of carrion"?
>
>Do you think that I should stick to books written by Dr. Seuss?
>
>Joe Szalai

Come to think of it, you might come out ahead of the game if you did. Ted
Geisl was a hell of a lot more emotionally mature than Nietzsche.
Sam Stowe
+ - Re: Pat Buchanan (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
DARREN E PURCELL > writes:

>I thought Buchanan's German was limited to Seig Heil, and Mittleeuropa (I
>wonder if there is an equivalent to MittleAmerica?)
>
>Darren
I don't know, but I hear Leni Riefenstahl is directing his campaign
commercials. Doonesbury, by the way, has been doing an excellent job of
taking the starch out of Mr. Buchanan's collar. Doug Hormann has a point.
Pat got as far as he did this time around by tapping some very real, very
deep-seated economic concerns. When the national unemployment rate drops
steeply and the stock market reacts to such good economic news (at least
in individual human terms) by taking a dive, something is definitely amiss
between Main Street and Wall Street. But where Buchanan uses that concern
to motivate people out of fear, we need someone who can get them to listen
to what Lincoln called the better angels of their nature.

There is a Hungarian equivalent to what's going on in the Republican Party
right now. Does the main "conservative" party embrace its ultra-rightwing
element or split with it? I don't think the answers are gonna be any
easier for our Repubs come convention time in San Diego than they were in
Hungary last week. Celia's more in touch with Republican politics,
however, so maybe she has a different take on it.
Sam Stowe
+ - Re: AUSTRALIAN HUNGARIAN NEEDS Hungarians to talk to (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> name is Gabor Kollo, and I moved here some seven years ago. Due to my
> name, I often find the company of Hungarians of my own age not accessible.
> I know a few but they are all stuck up dickheads...
>

I don't understand, what would hungarians find wrong
with your name, even if they are stuck up?
(I met that type of Hungarians in Australia I have to admit,
but it was the ragged backpacker/hippy-ishness what
they did not like).
I also met young people there who hated their Hungarian-ness,
because their parents forced them to go to Hungarian classes
on the weekends.
Eva Durant
+ - Re: Reserved tables (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>
>         Yes, according to Eva Durant all parties in Hungary drive an
> economic wedge between people with the possible exception of the
> Munkaspart--the unreformed communist party. However, I don't think that too
> many people on this list would support the Munkaspart. A few months ago we
> had a brief appearance of a newspaperman from Hungary who claimed to be a
> spokesman of the Munkaspart, but he disappeared without trace. Perhaps he
> didn't find the atmosphere hospitable. Since I can't possibly consider the
> Munkaspart a viable party in Hungary, I must settle for one of those other
> evil parties which drive an economic wedge between people.
>

Talking about baseless accusations - I did not suggest in
any of my postings, that I am a supporter of Munkaspart.
I don't think there is a party which stands for the
grassroot-up democracy based socialism I'd go for.
However, I still have not received any attempt at
explaining the difference between the other parties.
Csurka's demagogy is similar to Buchanan's - this was the only
political description so far - if one can call it that.
I'm sure it's not only me, who'd like to know...

Eva Durant




>
>         And please cut out these offensive sentences from your sterling
> prose. George Antony happens to be one of the best long-standing members of
> this group. He was here when I joined and extended his welcome. That was
> more than two years go. And I thank him now for defending me against these
> baseless accusations.
>
>         Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Reserved tables (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 04:13 PM 3/15/96 +0100, Eva Durant wrote:

>Talking about baseless accusations - I did not suggest in
>any of my postings, that I am a supporter of Munkaspart.


        Sorry, sorry! No, indeed!

>I don't think there is a party which stands for the
>grassroot-up democracy based socialism I'd go for.

        Why don't you start your very own? I am sure there is a need for
such party(;)).

>However, I still have not received any attempt at
>explaining the difference between the other parties.
>Csurka's demagogy is similar to Buchanan's - this was the only
>political description so far - if one can call it that.

        As far as I remember I compared Buchanan to Torgyan not Csurka. Any
explanation of these parties' ideology and practice would be a waste of my
time because you have already made up your mind that there is no difference
among them. They are all lacking in comparison to your mythical, nonexistent
party. However, if there is genuine interest in this subject I am sure
others will come forth with more genuine curiosity than yours and then,
surely all of us who are more familiar with the Hungarian parties than Joe
Szalai will respond.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Pat Buchanan (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Stowewrite wrote:

> In article >,
> DARREN E PURCELL > writes:
>
> >I thought Buchanan's German was limited to Seig Heil, and Mittleeuropa (I
> >wonder if there is an equivalent to MittleAmerica?)
> >
> >Darren
> I don't know, but I hear Leni Riefenstahl is directing his campaign
> commercials. Doonesbury, by the way, has been doing an excellent job of
> taking the starch out of Mr. Buchanan's collar. Doug Hormann has a point.
> Pat got as far as he did this time around by tapping some very real, very
> deep-seated economic concerns. When the national unemployment rate drops
> steeply and the stock market reacts to such good economic news (at least
> in individual human terms) by taking a dive, something is definitely amiss
> between Main Street and Wall Street. But where Buchanan uses that concern
> to motivate people out of fear, we need someone who can get them to listen
> to what Lincoln called the better angels of their nature.

I have never quite trusted Wall Street to understand Main Street...since
when have those folks had to support two people on 15,000 a year? Good
economic news is reason to start seeling stocks in spculative
games...funny thing, I must be buying into it...just bought some mutual
funds last week.

Darren
+ - Re: Reserved tables (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:21 AM 3/15/96 -0500, Eva Balogh wrote:

>        And please cut out these offensive sentences from your sterling
>prose. George Antony happens to be one of the best long-standing members of
>this group. He was here when I joined and extended his welcome. That was
>more than two years go. And I thank him now for defending me against these
>baseless accusations.

Eva,

My prose is no more sterling or offensive than yours.  I find it offensive
when you call me a socialist EVERY time I say something positive about
social programmes.  Is that your idea of what a 'viable discussant' does?  I
find it offensive every time you drag out your credentials and declare that
those who are not experts on things Hungarians should not make comments or
contibutions to this list.  Is that your idea of pedagogy?  I find it
offensive that you choose to take the moral high road rather than answer my
question.

I will ask my question once more.

>Can I assume that you chewed out your relatives for allowing such practices
>to happen in a building they own?  Or, could you understand their right to
>make a living?

Perhaps you chose to ignore my question because you couldn't declare it to
be a 'socialist' question.  It's not.  Nor is it a "hayekist" question, a
hungarian political parties question, or anything else that you've concluded
that I don't understand.  It's a question about how people deal with
uncomfortable situations that they encounter.

Taking a moral position, and chewing me out for my writing style is a lot
easier than admitting that you said nothing to your relatives.  (Please, do
correct me if I'm wrong.)

In the meantime, I'll assume that your oppositon to the mistreatment of
gypsies in Hungary is limited to written words and exclamation marks!
You're no Rosa Parks, so stop pretending that you are.

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: Just a footnote to today's Hungary Report (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 03:17 AM 3/14/96 GMT, Heather Olsen wrote:

>Eva, could you (or anyone else who has been following events) provide a
>summary of the issues/events leading up the MDF split? All I have seen
>are a couple of brief pices in the OMRI reports.

        I will try but I hope some other people will also come to the rescue
because I am no expert on the early history of the MDF. At that time I
wasn't following Hungarian events and therefore my knowledge of the party's
formation and composition is mostly second hand. I did read a very
interesting book on Jozsef Antall, the party chief, but that's about all.

        First, the men and women who established the MDF didn't belong to
any dissident groups. They were quietly doing their own business, paying
little attention to political matters. Sure, they didn't like the regime but
they did practically nothing to oppose it. They were indistinguishable from
the rest of Hungarian society, 99.9 percent of which was entirely passive.
The Hungarian dissident goup was small and those who belonged to this group
were the ones who later established the SZDSZ (Association of Free Democrats).
        When the end of the Kadar regime was in sight a group of people,
meeting in the backyard of Sandor Lezsak's house in Lakitelek, established
the Magyar Demokrata Forum. Antall, the party chief of later days, was not
among them. According to his enemies, Antall, out of the blue, arrived at
the MDF camp, after hesitating between joining the Smallholders and the MDF,
and in no time all the Young Turks felt that he was the only man capable of
becoming prime minister of Hungary. (He apparently prepared for it all his
life, and gave long lectures on Hungarian constitutional history.) Antall
emphasized three things: liberalism, nationalism, and Christian values. But
the MDF was a party of people with varied political heritage, among them the
fashionable populism of the 1930s and their ideology of the "third road," a
specifically Hungarian road of development which would strike a middle road
between socialism and capitalism. The populists were poets, writers, social
scientists and they published a number of very interesting books,
criticizing the Horthy regime, from the point of view of the downtrodden,
often landless, peasants. The populist movement itself wasn't homogeneous,
of course: its right wing was attracted to national socialism, while its
left wing became the early fellow travelers of the Hungarian communist
party. As opposed to the populists were the urbanites, and in that camp
there were many Hungarian Jewish intellectuals. In populist circles the
village was glorified and the city was condemned for its cosmopolitanism and
lack of "national values." Antisemitism therefore in the populist camp was
therefore not a surprising development.

        But to return to the MDF. Populism didn't disappear from the
Hungarian scene even after 1945. Still many, many populist writers remained
active and in the 1960s populist critiques of Hungary's village life
appeared quite frequently in the Hungarian media. Populism became an
ideology so familiar to Hungarian intellectual life that it permeated the
thinking of a large majority of Hungarian intellectuals, especially since in
the last 20-30 years the sons and daughters of the peasantry became the
backbone of the today's middle class. Therefore, it is not surprising that
the MDF was influenced by populism and third road ideas. The SZDSZ, on the
other hand, was a urban movement: mostly Budapest intellectuals whose roots
lead back to the urban writers and intellectuals of the 1930s. When it comes
to the MDF, in somewhat simplistic terms, we can speak of the populist wing
headed by Sandor Lezsak and others while the more liberal wing headed by
Ivan Szabo took its cues from Western European christian democracy. This
group kept referring to the Antall heritage as a guiding principle of the
party (Antall died of cancer while in office, in December 1993) but Lezsak
and his followers felt that it was exactly Antall and his friends who led
the party to the dead end they found themselves in 1994.

        After Antall died the differences in ideology as well as personal
antagonisms within the party made the MDF less and less of a factor in
Hungarian politics. First of all, they had to endure a humiliating defeat at
the polls in May 1994. Although they were talks about reorientation,
reevaluation, the party leaders did little more than squabble among
themselves. Eventually the split was almost inevitable. Two weeks ago the
party's leaders elected Sandor Lezsak to be party chairman as against Ivan
Szabo, the more moderate of the two. Ivan Szabo and several other deputies
thereupon left the MDF and established a new party called MDNP (Magyar
Demokratikus Neppart).

        I assume that the rightward shift of the Smallholders and the
Christian Democrats and their popularity in the electorate put a serious
strain on the MDF, where Lezsak and company felt that the only way to
recapture the MDF's former popularity is to espouse a more rightwing
ideology. This way they hoped to pave the road toward cooperation with the
Smallholders and the Christian Democrats who refused to consider any
collaboration with the FIDESZ and the MDF under the leadership of Ivan
Szabo. Now the road is open to such a collaboration with the Lezsak-led MDF.
It is assumed that the FIDESZ and the MDNP will collaborate as
right-of-center parties. Whether the more rightwing parties will try to
collaborate with Istvan Csurka and his MIEP only time will tell.

        That's the best I can do.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Pal Cseresznyes (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues,

I have received an indication from Amnesty International that in response to
our letter campaign, the Romanian Government discussed the case of Pal
Cseresznyes during the last days. I would like to encourage you to write (or
write again), not only to the spokesman of Ion Iliescu ),
but also to your representatives and to the press.

I was also advised by Amnesty, that of the 31 persons investigated after the
attack on the Hungarian Democratic Alliance in Tirgu Mures, 2 were Romanians,
5 Hungarians and 24 were Gypsies. One of the Gypsies, who came to the aid of
the besieged Hungarians, was a 24 year old, named Arpad Toth. He spoke to a
human-rights monitor from Geneva and a day later he was beaten to death in
the jail. The report claimed "natural causes."

As this cause of ours also involves the rights of the Gypsies, you might also
want to contact the International Romani Union, President: Dr. Rajko Djusic,
UN Representative: Dr. Ian F. Hancock (FAX: 512-295-4858).

Given below is a form letter, some data on Mr. Cseresznyes and some
addresses.

Best regards: Bela Liptak

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The Honorable President Ion Iliescu of Romania

Dear Mr. President,







                                                                         Date

I am writing to you in connection with the case of Mr. Pal Cseresznyes, who
was incarcerated in Tirgu Mures, on July 5, 1992 and have not been
heard from since.

In March, 1990, the Hungarians of Tirgu Mures attempted to restore the 400
years old Bolyai high school to its pre-Ceaucescu Hungarian status. Romanians
were bused into town by the authorities, who attacked the headquarters of the
Hungarian Democratic Alliance, besieging some seventy members who were then
severely beaten by the mob.  The playwright, Andras Suto was blinded in this
progrom-like attack.

While the attack was staged by the Romanian authorities and consisted of
violence directed at unarmed Hungarians and at Romas, who came to their aid,
of the 31 people investigated (2 Romanians, 5 Hungarians and 24 Romas), one
Roma, Arpad Toth was beaten to death (in jail) and one Hungarian, Pal
Cseresznyes is still in jail. Mr. Cseresznyes has received an unprecedented
sentence of 10 years for attempting to defend unarmed Romanian citizens
against an armed, intoxicated mob. While incarcerated, he has been repeatedly
beaten, paprika been repeatedly rubbed into his eyes, and he has not been
heard from, since 1992.

I would be grateful, if you could provide me with whatever information you
have concerning the health and status of Mr. Cseresznyes. I would be even
more grateful, if you either ordered a review of his case or at least allowed
Amnesty International to visit him and report on his condition.

Respectfully yours:

Your name, title and address

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Here are some of the facts of the Cseresznyes case: His file is #540/1991 in
the Maros County Court. He was arrested on January 17, 1991.

He was accused of kicking Mihaila Cofaru. According to the court doctor, the
kick caused no serious injury. The defense attorney of Mr. Cseresznyes, RMDSZ
senator Gyorgy Frunda stated, that the reason why his client comitted the
offense was, that he was defending the unarmed civilians from an attack of an
armed mob.

Prior to his trial, Mr. Cseresznyes was regularly beaten and was tortured in
other ways too, including the rubbing of paprika into his eyes.The president
at his trial was Horia Banciu, the judge was: Florin Stoica and the
persecutor: Ioan Luca. On July 7, 1992, he was sentenced to 10 years in jail,
plus to the confiscation of all his property and to a one million ley
penalty. The severity of his penalty is without precedent and it is feared,
that he will "commit suicide" before he is released.

To my knowledge, with the exception of Amnesty International, no Hungarian,
European or American government representative has ever spoken up for him and
his case has never been covered in the international press.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
When you write your letter to President Ion Iliescu, you might consider
sending copies to the following:


EC COMISSIONER FOR MINORITY AFFAIRS:



FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE (US SENATE):









, 




HUNGARIAN GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS:






HUNGARIAN WIRE SERVICE (MTI), NEWSPAPER & RADIO





MAJOR NEWSPAPERS (USA):




ajopinion






, 

dpnews








alphafran, 


njcenter









, 











, 











POLITICAL LEADERS (USA):




ROMANIAN AUTHORITIES & MEDIA









UNITARIAN CHURCH


WORLD FEDERATION OF HUNGARIANS (MVSZ)





+ - Re: Reserved tables (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, "Eva S. Balogh"
> says:
>
>>Now George, if you'd stop hyper-ventilating, and relaxed a little bit, you
>>would be able to understand what I wrote.
>
>        And please cut out these offensive sentences from your sterling
>prose. George Antony happens to be one of the best long-standing members of
>this group. He was here when I joined and extended his welcome. That was
>more than two years go. And I thank him now for defending me against these
>baseless accusations.

Best Long Standing Member, huh? Now we have the Balogh seniority ranking
system on the ng! Does the honour come with a decoration or campaign medal?
Iron Cross 1st Class, perhaps, or Hero of the Best Long Standing Member of
the Immaculate Cult Groupie of the Sovietski Respublik blh? You betray your
mentality in no uncertain fashion. Ugh! Excuse me, while I vomit!

BE CAREFUL, Joe! The Antony-Balogh Axis might have you consigned to the
Auschwitz, or Gulag, for their opponents in this ng!

Regards,

George

George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
* Independent Commodore Products Users' Group UK * C=64 stuff wanted *
* ACCU ** ARM Club ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list *
+ - Re: Pat Buchanan (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
DARREN E PURCELL > writes:

>Good
>economic news is reason to start seeling stocks in spculative
>games...funny thing, I must be buying into it...just bought some mutual
>funds last week.
>
>Darren

Insidious, isn't it? Next you'll find yourself checking out the market
reports first thing in the morning rather than reading the comics or the
sports page like God intended.
Sam Stowe

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