Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 125
Copyright (C) HIX
1994-11-05
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: The Balkans (mind)  44 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: The Balkans (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Balkans (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Balkans (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Balkans (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
6 4th of November (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
7 Archive under threat (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Balkans (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
9 Translation needed (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
10 The French, the havoc (was Re: Balkans) (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Red terror and white terror (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
12 Balkans marginalia (was Re: Balkans) (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
13 Annual HUNGARIAN Bazaar - Rockville, MD (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Red terror and white terror (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Red terror and white terror (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
16 Germany (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Balkans (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
18 MTV's two channels (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
19 Croats, Serbs and Imi Bokor (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: DEMOCRACY? (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: Red terror and white terror (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: Croats, Serbs and Imi Bokor (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: Red terror and white terror (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: regarding #3395 -ISMS IN MAGYARORSZAG (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: Balkans (mind)  70 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: 4th of November (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
27 ONLINE ORSZAGHAZ (mind)  74 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: The Balkans (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I agree with much of George's post with two glaring problems:
        1.  "I am still at loss to see for what exactly you blame the
Germans."  Answer: I blame the Germans for making a "negotiated exit"
by Slovenia and Croatia from the old Serb-dominated Yug. Federation a
real possibility.  The Germans forced the EU countries to go along with
their premature recognition against US opposition.  The result was 200,
000 dead and 1.2 M refugees.  This was the cost of the German policy.
        Could it have been avoided?  It's not enough to argue that Slo-
venia and Croatia were going to secede anyway.  Their exit could have
been voluntary if the West had acted and if the US had led a resolute
opposition to chauvinist Serb political use of the JNA combined with
tough guarantees by Tudjman and Izetbegovic for "their" Serb minori-
ties.  But neither leader showed any understanding of Serb fears and
those fears were brilliantly manipulated by Milosevic and Karadjic.
        Now I can't "prove" a negotiated exit was possible, but I can
demonstrate I believe that German demands for immediate recognition of
Slovenia and Croatia were counterproductive to a peaceful exit!  This
is why I say that German policy was a disaster in Yugoslavia, a disaster
which was not helped by the Bush-Clinton policy of "hands off" with the
fig leaf of UK-French UNPROFOR and USAF humanitarian aid which only
solidified Serb control of 70% of B-H and 30% of Croatia!
        So there's plenty of blame to go around but Germany started the
West's failure and then retreated behind legalisms about its Grundge-
setz.  Bonn's Grundgesetz didn't keep the Germans (and other European
and US companies) from arming Saddam in Iraq, but at least we didn't
take refuge in legalistic pettifoggery, i.e., we weren't *quite*
as hypocritical as our German friends.  If I'm wrong, please explain why
in analytical term rather than via hypothetical historical scenarios which
cannot really be proved either way.
        Finally, Clinton meant what he said about "focusing like a laser
beam on US domestic policy."  That's what he though the US voters wanted
and he planned to deliver it.  The trouble was he didn't realize he was
now President of the US and no longer governor of a small state (Arkansas)
and we Americans *expected* him to act like a world leader.  He's *very*
intelligent but took time to make the transition from Tyson Chickens to
world leader--Carter had the same problem.  For Bush there's no excuse
since he was raised on foreign policy back to his grandfather, Prescott
Bush.
--
Glen D. Camp
Professor of Political Science
Bryant College
401-232-6246
>
+ - Re: The Balkans (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The rest of your post I agree with and appreciate its calm and
analytical presentation.

--
Glen D. Camp
Professor of Political Science
Bryant College
401-232-6246
>

On Fri, 4 Nov 1994, George Antony wrote:

> Unfortunately, our sytem crashed when I was putting together my response
> to Greg's questions and an earlier version was sent to HUNGARY warts
> and all.  Among others I wrote:
>
> >3. Keep the Russians sweet by trying to do overtly things that Serbofile
> >Russians would find objectionable.
>
> This should be:
>
> 3. Keep the Russians sweet by trying to avoid doing overtly things that
> Serbophile Russians would find objectionable.
>
> I had more on this point, suggesting the declaration of
> the cores of the main Serb population centres as safe areas, provided
> they are demilitarized.  This measure would go some distance in
> satisfying Russian demands for action following the Bosnian government
> offensive and ensure the Serbs that the government will not be allowed
> to wipe them out.
>
> As another point, I suggested US cooperation with Islamic nations in
> delivering non-military aid to Bosnia and Croatia, in a well-publicized
> manner that may wash away old animosities and allow the US to gain some
> political capital.
>
> George Antony
>
+ - Re: Balkans (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Your defense of German Balkan statecraft is certainly intriguing and
I hope very much that the future bears out your optimism.  Moreover, what
you say about German economic activity in E. Europe is surely
true--except that the Germans are making a good deal of money.
        Nevertheless, I fear any aggregation of power which is uncontrolled,
for countries can change and what Jefferson suggested is, I believe, univer-
sally true: "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." A German Government
which does not understand the significance of Bitberg cannot be completely
trusted.  In sum, like most Americans I find that Lord Actor was right:
"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely."  Thus
I want "countervailing power" to resurgent German expansion in East Europe
not just for Hungary's sake but for Germany's and America's as well.  And
I think that we Americans must therefore keep troops in Europe to stabil-
ize it for the Germans will continue to increase their sway there and the
Russians *will* come back.  When they do which way will Germany turn,
westward toward the EU or will Bismarkian dreams begin to dazzle post-Kohl
German statesmen's heads.
        If you want to know how Great Powers act, just read the Athenians'
reply to the Delians in Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War.  What
Europe needs is what Daniel Webster demanded for us Ameicans in his reply
to Hayne: "Liberty *and* Union, now and forever, one and inseparable"
        I've learned a lot from your postings, I hope you learned something
from mine.


--
Glen D. Camp
Professor of Political Science
Bryant College
401-232-6246
>
+ - Re: Balkans (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I think George Antony must be pulling my legs because I hear him echoing
my own opinions.  ;-)
This time I'd like to comment on the following only:

> The Germans have been paying attention to the Ukraine while the US was
> only trying to strip her of the only defence that she has against
> potential Russian expansionism, her nuclear weapons.

You know, George, I've been getting this feeling quite some time now
that the real movers and shakers in Washington must be looking back
fondly to the cold war days when they only had to deal with the
Sovietunion, instead of all her component parts today.  I can sense that
quietly they are already working hand-in-hand with the Russian
hardliners in rebuilding the old empire of the East.  And disarming
Ukraine is part of that.  After that, I would not give big odds for
Ukraine being still independent in the year 2000.  Same goes for Belarus
and most of the other former Soviet republics.  What I am not quite sure
yet is the fate awaiting Hungary and the other former satellites.  I
would be far more optimistic if they were quickly brought under the
umbrella of EU and Nato.  From what I can see, so does Germany.  Not so
France, the UK and the US.  That's why I trust better Germany than those
others.

Joe
+ - Re: Balkans (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Glen writes:

> A German Government
> which does not understand the significance of Bitberg cannot be completely
> trusted.  In sum, like most Americans I find that Lord Actor was right:
> "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely."

I take it you meant Bitburg and Lord Acton, right?
But what do you mean by the "significance" of the former?  I do recall
the big fuss about Reagan's visit to the Bitburg cemetery, but I don't
know how that would fit in here.  I also don't quite follow how that
Acton quote applies to this discussion.

Joe
+ - 4th of November (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

This date should be declared a national day of mourning, even more so
than 6. October.  I wonder just how is it commemorated in Hungary.
Are the flags lowered at half mast?  Or any black flags raised?

For those who don't know, it was on this day in 1956 when the Soviets,
already negotiating their withdrawal from Hungary, turned around and
attacked Hungary with an overwhelming force, crushing the seemingly
victorius revolution.  When they finished, parts of Budapest looked as
bad or worse than in WW II for they used heavy weapons indiscriminately.

November 4th, a day that will live in infamy -- for most Hungarians.

Joe Pannon
+ - Archive under threat (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

--
Nigel Swain: 
Tel: +44 (0)151 794 2422; Fax: +44 (0)151 794 2423
Centre for Central and Eastern European Studies, University of Liverpool
11 Abercromby Square, P.O. Box 147, Liverpool, L69 3BX, UK
+ - Re: Balkans (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

George Antony writes:

> Greg Grose gives me a hard task:

Thank you for the response.  If imitation is sincere flattery,
then imagine what my intended plagiarism implies--it's time
for another of my undoubtedly 99.99999% futile trio of letters to
two Senators and one Representative; and I'm going to cut-and-
paste your recomendations.  I'll credit "a contributor to a
Hungarian affairs mailing list", I hope you don't mind.


Joe Pannon writes:

> I think George Antony must be pulling my legs because I hear
> him echoing my own opinions.

Joe Pannon might also take pen in hand, if he hasn't already.

--Greg
+ - Translation needed (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Is there anyone who knows where I can get Hungarian documents translated
to English, that are accepted by the U.S. Government?

Please email me.

Tunde
+ - The French, the havoc (was Re: Balkans) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

George Antony writes:

> I think especially the French need to be watched, not the Germans,
> given the amount of economic havoc the former have been wreaking
> around the world...

Could you please list a few examples of what you meant?  Dash off
names and places, that'd be enough to satisfy my curiosity...

--Greg
+ - Re: Red terror and white terror (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

halasz wrote:
: In article >,  (IMRE
BOKOR) writes:
: > ....
: > does this mean that there was no racialism directed against the blacks
: > of mississipi, for example, because its black population (quite large
: > by southern standards) would have emigrated in hordes. this obviously did
: > not happen.

: Ere or after the Civvil War?

the reference was to the 1960's, when by all accounts, there was
still a very substantial black population in mississipi and the civil
rights were not accorded them.

:When slaverie was the law, fleeind slaves were
: vigorouslie chased, and oftenest were caught.  Nonethless, manie left.  After
: slaverie was abolishd, blacks in large numbers left the south--but
: sharecropping, a form of debt-slaverie, a practice known also in the north,
and
: in West Virginia, held manie.

: As for Jews, between the wars, when the laws encouraged them to go, in hordes
: thei left.  Teller and Neuman were but twain out of manie

that is exactly the opposite of what the learned gentlemen have so often
claimed in this group. according to them, and our resident historian,
hungary was a veritable haven for jews in the period between the wars.

as i have explained before, my purpose was simply to point out that
the argument presented --- if my memory serves me correctly it
was an argument used by a contributor with a phd in history from a
prestigious university --- is not a sound one. shoddy argumentation
is lamost asunflattering as affected erudition.

d.a.
+ - Balkans marginalia (was Re: Balkans) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

A couple notes...

1
Glen Camp writes:

> I want "countervailing power" to resurgent German expansion in East
> Europe not just for Hungary's sake but for Germany's and America's
> as well.

How about a "prosperous, democratic, and free" Russia?

Joe Pannon is thinking along the same lines ;-)
"I can sense that quietly [the US is] already working hand-in-hand
with the Russian hardliners in rebuilding the old empire of the East."


2
I've seen sentiments here along the lines that President Clinton
is showing signs of improvement lately in foreign policy.  I
feel the same, but--surprise!--not everyone does.  Charles
Krauthammer (sp?) in Time excoriated Clinton's trip to Damascus
and his handling of the North Korean nuclear crisis.  He felt
the US paid an extremely high price (prestige and legitimacy in
the one case, hard cash to the tune of billions in the other) and
got nothing real back.  Haiti he dismissed as irrelevant to our
real foreign policy goals, Kuwait he ignored or I missed it.

--Greg
+ - Annual HUNGARIAN Bazaar - Rockville, MD (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hungarian Annual Bazaar in Rockville,MD
                =======================================

                                 _\_
                                   \
                                 *******
                             *    *****    *
                           *       * *       *
                          *        ***        *
                         [*][*] /\ [ ] /\ [*][*]
                        ([*][*][*] [ ] [*][*][*])
                        -------------------------
                        !MMMMMMMMMMM!     -     !
                        !MMMMMMMMMMM!   _| |_   !
                        !           !  I_   _I  !
                        !MMMMMMMMMMM!  __| |__  !
                        !MMMMMMMMMMM! I__   __I !
                        !           !    | |    !
                        !MMMMMMMMMMM!    | |    !
                        !MMMMMMMMMMM!   |\/\/|  !
                        !           ! ^       ^ !
                        !MMMMMMMMMMM!^         ^!
                         !MMMMMMMMMM!          !
                           !        !        !
                                !   !   !
                                    !

      The annual celebration of Hungarian culture and gastronomy
      will be held at the Rockville Civic Center, on Baltimore Road.
      The Center is accessible from Norbeck Road. Norbeck is accessible
      either from Georgia Ave (Aspen Hill) or Veir Mill Road (Twinbrook).
                             All are welcome!

                    Starts SUNDAY, November 6th, 11am
                          ----------------------------
+ - Re: Red terror and white terror (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

d.a. writes:

> : > does this mean that there was no racialism directed against the blacks
> : > of mississipi, for example, because its black population (quite large
> : > by southern standards) would have emigrated in hordes. this obviously did
> : > not happen.

> my purpose was simply to point out that
> the argument presented is not a sound one.

And your response to the assertion that interstate migration is not
comparable to Hungary-Israel migration is...?


You can perhaps fill us in on whether my question, conversational
and non-technical as it is, accuses you of
        a. sweeping generalization (dicto simpliciter),
        b. red herring, or
        c. an extended analogy

--Greg
+ - Re: Red terror and white terror (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> You can perhaps fill us in on whether my question, conversational
> and non-technical as it is, accuses you of
>         a. sweeping generalization (dicto simpliciter),
>         b. red herring, or
>         c. an extended analogy

Let me add

          d. other__________________(please specify)

--Greg
+ - Germany (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

George Antony writes
> Yes, Hungary should become the economic appendage of the FRG just as Austria
> has.  This is the best position that she can achieve, and a revitalization
> of the traditional German orientation.  Given that Germany is the only
> country that still stands up for others and puts her money (even if not her
> Pomeranian grenadiers, as Andras Kornai puts it) where her mouth is,
> alliance with her is the best proposition.  Economically, once the costs of
> unification are digested, Germany will dominate Europe more than ever.
> Hopefully, this will manifest itself in an increasing political role too.
I like a man who speaks his mind! What George describes here rather
succintly is the Klaus program for the Czech Republic. It is a very
realistic political program, and definitely an important alternative to the
current policy (which remained essentially constant from Ne1meth to Antall
to Boross to Horn) of keeping the rest of the world also interested. In
particular, Hungary had remarkable success in attracting US investment on a
scale comparable to German investment.

While I don't share Glen's misgivings about the nature of the German beast,
I feel George is too optimistic about the economic powers of Germany.
Unification is still a major undertaking, and it seems to be dampening
German interest in eastern investments. Hungary also has to compete with an
enthusiastically pro-German Czech Republic and an investment-hungry Poland.
Further, I fail to see Germany as a guarantor of peace, any peace.  Not
because they are evil -- they are simply more interested in the well-being
of Pomeranian grenadiers than the well-being of children in Sarajevo.
So putting every egg in the German basket makes no sense, especially as
business, investment, and even warfare (for Britain and the US can and does
engage in military operations now and again) is more global than ever.

Andra1s Kornai
+ - Re: Balkans (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Ibokor writes:
>>this opens pandora's box, for from what i have read, the difference between
>>the serbs, croats and bosnians is essentially religion. as far as i
>>understand matters, the common language is serbo-croatian,

As I said, you are wrong. Croatia had a ruler long time ago.

The USA and England, are both speak english, have more or less the same
religion, and you would not call them the same state. Australia also speaks
english.
As far as I go,the croats have more reason historical reason for independence
as the USA or Australia.

Sandor
+ - MTV's two channels (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

A friend of mine from England reminded me through private mail that I was
wrong on the number of channels BBC owns. Apparently, BBC has two channels.
Moreover, thinking it over, I guess, the CBC also has two channels: English
and French. Yet, I maintain that the MTV can live very well with only one
channel, especially since there is no other channel which can serve the whole
country..

Eva Balogh
+ - Croats, Serbs and Imi Bokor (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

According to Imi Bokor's best recollection, Catholicism was introduced in
Croatia by the Hungarians!! Oh, my, my! Just for his information, the
Croatians converted to Christianity in the seventh century with a bishopric
at Nin (north of Zadar). And, as Imi Bokor surely remembers the Hungarians
were nowhere close to the Pannonian basin in the seventh century. And, of
course, they had not yet heard of Jesus Christ.

I can never get over how some people are expounding "great thoughts" with so
little background knowledge. For example, Imi Bokor claims that

>if what i recall reading is correct, then it is "merely" a religious
>difference which divides an ethnic group. if you are proposing that
>different religious groups within the one ethnic population and geographic
>region should form different nation states, then you are indeed supporting
>a complete break-up of europe as we know it.

The problem with this great thought is that the Croats and the Serbs had
never lived in the same country before 1918. Thus, they had an entirely
different political culture, over and above, their religious differences.
Moreover, the Croat people was never asked whether they wanted to join Serbia
in 1918.

I am now eagerly awaiting Imi's retort in which he will claim that this was
all the fault of those terrible Hungarians!

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: DEMOCRACY? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Halasz wrote:
etc. in hardly recognizable English.

Please read HOW TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY: A NONPARTISAN VISION FOR CHANGE
by M. Szilagyi
Pallas Press, 1993
You may learn something.
+ - Re: Red terror and white terror (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

One "halasz" writes:

>Ere or after the Civvil War?  When slaverie was the law, fleeind slaves were
>vigorouslie chased, and oftenest were caught.  Nonethless, manie left.  After
>slaverie was abolishd, blacks in large numbers left the south--but
>sharecropping, a form of debt-slaverie, a practice known also in the north, an
d
>in West Virginia, held manie.

    I am not one of those who likes to chastise people for typos and bad
grammar but this is ridiculous! "Slaverie, fleeind, oftenest, manie"?
These are not exactly the tie breaking words from a spelling bee contest.
I think this contributor would better spend his time learning spelling
than flaunt his literacy to such a wide audience.
                                                           Matt
+ - Re: Croats, Serbs and Imi Bokor (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 wrote:
: According to Imi Bokor's best recollection, Catholicism was introduced in
: Croatia by the Hungarians!! Oh, my, my! Just for his information, the
: Croatians converted to Christianity in the seventh century with a bishopric
: at Nin (north of Zadar). And, as Imi Bokor surely remembers the Hungarians
: were nowhere close to the Pannonian basin in the seventh century. And, of
: course, they had not yet heard of Jesus Christ.

: Eva Balogh

Perhaps he just got confussed and was thinking of some other Hungarians.
After all he was only off by about three hundred years:)
+ - Re: Red terror and white terror (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Matt writes:

>     I am not one of those who likes to chastise people for typos and bad
> grammar but this is ridiculous! "Slaverie, fleeind, oftenest, manie"?

Itz juzt boguz.  If you ignore it it uzually goez away.  I think we are
zuppozed to be reminded of archaic Englizh zpellingz, thatz all.

--Greg
+ - Re: regarding #3395 -ISMS IN MAGYARORSZAG (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 wrote:
:  writes:
: > ...I have spent the last two years of my life in Hungary...
: > ...they are one of the most racist,
: > sexist, anti-semitic, nationalistic groups period.

: Just to put your opinion in perspective, other than the USA
: (I assume) and Hungary, in what other countries have you spent two
: years of your adult life?

: --Greg

I have travelled to many different contries and would have to say that
being racist (nationalistic?) appears to be present everywere. And I
might even go as far as to say it's a side afect of being civilized:)

No one wants to openly state that they are not as good as thier
neighbours.  That is the basis of our western civilization.  Stiving for
constant change so that we may improve ourselves.  If we were satisfied
that our neighbours are better than us and that wwas that, what would be
the motivation for change.  Instead every culture thinks its better than
the next (thats one of the reasons we have wars) and does evrything it
can to keep it that way.  Just look at how much any country spends on its
military just to be ready to fight over the fact that thier values and
opinions are just a little more right than the next ones.

For someone to take the stand that Hungarians are more racist than any
other group is just an example of my point.  He may live in Hungary but
he is not Hungarian by birth.  Thus he has different views than those
around him.  The result is he feels he must exert his point of view that
his culture is better than the Hungarian one.  To someone who has nothing
at stake in this, he appears to be just as racist as he is accusing the
Hungarians of being.

I feel sorry for this individual.  He did not make these comments because
he is ignorant, but because the way he was socialized prevents him from
seeing that he is no different than the people around him.  Or should I
feel sorry for him?  After all, it is people like him that wars are built on.

Frank Sandor
+ - Re: Balkans (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Correct, Joe-Bitburg and Lord Acton's Essays on Freedom and Power.
        My comments were directed to George Anthony's thoughtful defense of
German policy in recognizing the secession of Slovenia and Croatia and his
suggestion that Hungary should become an "appendage" to Germany.
        This worried me because even though I also admire Germany's post-
WWII behavior in general, I--like most Americans I suspect--fear power since
who knows what post-Kohl German governments may be like.  I would be almost
as worried in Hungary were to become a US or British or French "appendage"
since if "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power to corrupt absolutely"
then the Hungarians could wind up in dire straits by tying themselves too
closely to Germany (or Russia).
        My solution to the dilemma of 80 million Germans in the heart of
Europe with inevitable enormous influence on East Central Europe including
Hungary (especially since the abrupt withdrawal of Russian power even if
it stays more or less democratic) is simple.  Anchor Germany so tightly into
the EU (and let Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Poland into the EU very
soon) that it cannot "go East" via a *Schaukelpolitik*, a policy of shift-
ing first westward and then eastward.
        This anchoring policy would be good for Germany and the Germans, it
would also reassure the French who are becoming increasingly worried about
German predominance (the joke is that the French want a German army stronger
than the Russian but weaker than the French!).  And it would permit the
small E. Central European powers such as Hungary to keep their independence
and not become "appendages" to any other power.
        The international community is still a scary place resembling Hobbes'
grim vision of a "war of all against all."  The EU is a great exception as
a supranational organization with enormous potential for good.  But the EU
has failed miserably in political terms and the horror in Bosnia proves my
point, I believe.  Manfred Wohrner, the late prescient head of NATO put the
matter well:
"The EU is an economic giant, a military dwarf, and a political worm."
        My hope is that the EU will become a giant in *all* respects and that
this will final write *finis* to the national wars of the nationalistic
"diesseitsreligionen" wars which we call the Balkan Wars, I, II, and III
(Bosnia-Herzegovina) and WWI and WWII.  I thus do not trust any sovereign
power in the international arena too much (not even my own country) since
"Power tends to corrupt and abolute power tends to corrupt absolutely"
the more so since the world arena has "no common authority" as yet capable
of stopping the slaughter and producing what Immanuel Kant called "Ewige
Friede.  This is why we Americans and you Europeans must stop the slaughter
of the innocents underway in B-H in the heart of Europe.  The Europeans
must stop that slaughter or it may well consume them as well if it
spreads as I believe it will unless ended soon.
        I hope this explicates more adequately my concerns.


--
Glen D. Camp
Professor of Political Science
Bryant College
401-232-6246
>

On Thu, 3 Nov 1994, Joe Pannon wrote:

> Glen writes:
>
> > A German Government
> > which does not understand the significance of Bitberg cannot be completely
> > trusted.  In sum, like most Americans I find that Lord Actor was right:
> > "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely."
>
> I take it you meant Bitburg and Lord Acton, right?
> But what do you mean by the "significance" of the former?  I do recall
> the big fuss about Reagan's visit to the Bitburg cemetery, but I don't
> know how that would fit in here.  I also don't quite follow how that
> Acton quote applies to this discussion.
>
> Joe
>
+ - Re: 4th of November (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I remember it well, Joe, as I was across the Danube in Burgenland
and I particularly remember my humiliation since Ike and Dulles had prom-
ised to "roll back the Iron Curtain" in the '52 and '56 US elections but
when Khrushchev sent Ivan Serov and the tanks in my country did nothing
while the freedom fighters died.  Now we're doing the same thing in Bosnia
--when will we ever learn?

--
Glen D. Camp
Professor of Political Science
Bryant College
401-232-6246
>
+ - ONLINE ORSZAGHAZ (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> ======================================================================== 89

MET--HUNGARIAN ELECTRONIC EXCHANGE--(Magyar Elektronikus T=93zsde)---MET
=3D-=3D-=3DELECTRONIC JOURNAL  HU ISSN 1216-0229 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D copyright =
1990.

Tallozas az ORSZAGGYULES 1994. evi oszi ulesszak november 7 - 8-ai
ulesenek napirendjebol.

Hetfon GMT 14 orakkor, kedden GMT 8 orakkor kezdodik>..

Az Orszaggyules elnoke beszamolt a Debreceni Ideglenes Nemzetgyules
emlekere rendezendo debreceni kihelyezett Orszaggyulesre.  Javasol
egy uj torvenyt amely melto helyre teszi az Ideglenes Nemzetgyules
tortenelmi jelentoseget, amely egyben n az 1954-ben szuletett tv.
hatalyon kivul helyezi.=20
 A Hazbizottsagban nem sikerult megallapodni az EXPO ' 94
lemondasaval kapcsolatban, hogy lezarjak szavazassal a tv.
javaslatot, vagy varjak meg a nepszavazas eredmenyet. Az mar biztos,
hogy az Onkormanyzati valasztasokkal egyidoben mar nem lehet
megtartani. Egyszeruen technikailag nem megoldahato.

Soltesz Istvan az Orszaggyules Fotitkara beszamolt az uj hazszabaly
alkalmazasanak tapasztalatairol, Kiemelesunk: 1) rovidebb attekinthetobb
a munka 2) alaposabb a bizottsagok elozetes munkaja 3) Az azonnali
kerdesek oraja nagy erdeklodesre tarthat szamot.

Sos Tibor Orszaggyulesi Hivatal vezetoje elmondta, hogy az uj
hazszabaly szerinti koltsegvetes tervezese es a hozza kapcsolodo
orszaggyulesi munka megfelel a polgari demokracia kovetelmenyeinek Az
Orszaghaz felujitasi munkalataira hosszutavu tervet dolgozotak ki, 96
januarjatol varhato a tudatos felujitasi munka Kormanyzati
beruhazasban.


Napirend elott tobb mint 10 surgos javasltrol kell donteni az
Orszaggyulesnek


Tallozas a Kerdesek es  Interpelaciokbol :
 "Mi az oka annak, hogy az ugyeszseg nem tamogatja kellokepen a
rendorseget a maffiozok elleni harcban " - DR Homoki Janos

" Varhato-e a mezogazdasagi tanszekek visszaallitasa a tanarkepzo foiskolan=
"
     - Dr. Ka'va'ssy Sandor

" A felsooktatas es tudomanyos kutatas katasztrofalis helyzetenek targyaban=
"
     - Dr. Kovacs Kalman
    =20
A reszletekrol erdeklodo kedves olvasoink figyelmebe ajanjuk
   LEVELEZESI rovatunkat,   HISZEN UJSAGUNK INTERAKTIV....

Dr ORCZAN Zsolt

Rovataink:
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