Another example is the recently-deceased scholar Raphael Patai.  His
family came from Pata.

Burian Newyorkcityi

The definitive treatment of the Holocaust in Hungary is Randolph Braham's
"The Politics of Genocide," a 2-volume work published by Columbia
University (latest ed. 1994).  Any university library should have it
(don't even think of buying it--it's $500).  Although Braham is a Jew and,
I believe, lost much of his family in the Holocaust, his account is very
balanced, so all the questions raised here should be answered there.  He
mentions the good people as well as the bad, in every segment of the
events.  As for the relative safety of Jews in Hungary until 1944, he
certainly notes that--though he doesn't fail to describe the  persecution
Jews experienced till then.  But--and I've read this in more than one
source, as well as from survivors--once the German occupation occurred,
the gendarmes (and others) did "more than was necessary" to comply with
Hitler's wishes regarding the Jews.  In fact, during the Death Marches to
Hegyeshalom in November 1944, even some Germans were shocked by the
treatment the gendarmes accorded the Jews.

Burian

In article >, _JELIKO
> writes:

>I agree if you do not restrict it only to English professors.
>
>Regards,Jeliko

Consider it done.
Sam Stowe

"The true champion of justice, if he intends to survive
even for a short time, must necessarily confine
himself to private life and leave politics alone."
-- Plato, "Apology"

> Felado :  [Canada]
>
> Hungary introduced anti-Semitic laws well before Hitler came to power.  The
> three so-called Jewish Laws were passed in the late 1930s and early 1940s
> in order to pacify  the large consituency of Hungarian pro-Nazi extremists
> as well as for ther purpose to obtain Hitler's support for the revision of
> the Treaty of Trianon. Both Bulgaria and Hungary were willing to to rob
> their Jewish citizens of their properties, dignity and livelihood but not
> their lives. Professor Istvan Deak wrote in The New York Review of Books
> that without the occupation of Hungary, which came about because the
> government became unreliable from Germany's point of view, the deportation
> of the Hungarian Jewish community would not have taken place.
I think this is largely correct, as far as "Hungary was willing to do X"
is interpreted as "the majority of Hungarians was willing to do X". But at
this point the notions of majority will and collective action are insufficient
to analyze the situation. The Arrow Cross, and people willing to exterminate
Jews, were decidedly a minority, definitely below 20% and perhaps below 10%.
But potential murderers tend to be a minority in any situation and it is the
responsibility of the majority to stop them from becoming actual murderers.
"Official" Hungary, with its progressively dehumanizing Jewish Laws, helped
to foster the genocidal tendency of the murderous minority.

As for the testimonial of those who have been saved, these are wonderful
testimonials and I thank everybody who posted these, but the stark reality is
that such testimonials come from a biased sample.  Those killed in the
Holocaust (and they were the overwhelming majority, five to one or so) do not
write counter-testimonials. The whole issue, could they have been saved, is
very hard to decide. Looking at the number of the dead one feels saving more
should have been possible, but all this is very hard to speculate about.

The past is done, but the future is unwritten. Consider Gypsies in Hungary.  I
dare say that the majority of Hungarians do not wish to exterminate them, they
just wish Gypsies would go somewhere else. Discriminative legislation, written
at the level of local ordinances, surfaces time and again, only to be shot
down rather angrily by the central government. This is important. As soon as
the central authority begins to give the opposite signals, mass-murdererers
would surface, just as in Bosnia. For now, skinheads are clearly a tiny
minority.  But the politicians who cater to them are committing a criminal
act, make no mistage.

One must add that the majority of Hungarians are quite aware of this. The MDF-
led coalition lost big on tolerating (and quite possibly aiding and abetting)
the skinheads booing A1rpa1d Go2ncz. The Democratic Charta, which was
instrumental in restoring the legitimacy of MSZP, grew out of frustration with
the inability and unwillingness of the then ruling coalition to rein in the
ultraright. More recently, it was remarkable how much Torgya1n lost his
popularity after his Parliament Square speech. Altogether, I'm quite
optimistic in the sense that I firmly believe Hungarians can not be led down
the same path of mass murder a second time.

Andra1s Kornai

PS. (On a related thread.) Not only was Barto1k not an anti-semite, he was
one of the few Hungarian intellectuals who raised their voices against the
Jewish Laws as early as in 1938.

This small article from the Associated Press was in today's Record, our
local newspaper.
-------------------------------

Hungary salutes Yehudi Menuhin

Yehudi Menuhin's longtime support of Hungarian music has earned him the
country's highest civilian award.

The U.S.-born violinist received the Order of Merit of the Republic on
Monday from President Arpad Goncz.

The 80-year old Menuhin is a great admirer of Hungarian folk music,
especially Gypsy music.  He was a friend of Hungarian composer Bela Bartok
and commissioned Bartok's Sonata for Solo Violin in 1944.

Menuhin is in Hungary to conduct a gala concert today for World Music Day
and the 50th anniversary of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and
Cultural Organization.
-----------------------------------

Joe Szalai

Andra1s Kornai writes:


> PS. (On a related thread.) Not only was Barto1k not an anti-semite, he was
> one of the few Hungarian intellectuals who raised their voices against the
> Jewish Laws as early as in 1938.

And that was the time to protest. It is always important to begin hollering
when the first step is taken to abridge citizen's rights. By March of 1944,
the chance to protest alone, would not have helped much.

Regards,Jeliko.

Jeliko:
>
> Zoltan Szekely writes (most deleted):
>
> > We know, what happened to people during Rakosi in Hungary, when
> > they stepped out of the Communist Party. We know how they lost
> > any chance of dignified survival whatsoever. Many of them ended
> > up in Recsk and their families in complete despair. Do you know,
> > what this single word means to Hungarians: Recsk? Do you have
> > the slightest idea? ... And it happened in Hungary.
>
> You know Zoli, I do not carry much pain about those who stepped out of the
> communist party. I have painful memories about those who never joined. That
> it was more dangarous to be a communist under Rakosi than under Horthy is
> ironic, but my sympathy stops before I get to them.
>
> Regards,Jeliko.
>

I was talking about outsteppers of Rakosi's communist party,
because their fate is good example of the fate of people
who express open disloyalty toward a crazy dictatureship --
while living inside the country.

You are right, members of Rakosi's party, or at least many
of them, would not deserve our sympathy. But think also
about the few (how few they were?) who were idealistic
in their expectations toward the "communistic future", the
people who became members because they truly believed in
a bright future FOR THE COUNTRY not only for themselves.
Some people had these idealistic views and it would be too
misleading to condemn all of them. (Think about Nagy Laszlo,
the poet, or Nagy Imre himself, among many others.)

(I just mention here, that my original argument was intended
to explain Sam Stowe how unjust he was when he condemned
Martin Heidegger for having his membership kept in the
German nazi party until 1945. Sam himself acknowledged that
the level of oppression in the Nazi Germany was higher than
in Hungary during Rakosi. So we may have the idea what would
have happened to the family of Heidegger in the Nazi Germany,
if he quits.)
                                                    Sz. Zoli

P.S. I also tried interlibrarian loan, and I can confirm that
     it works wonderfully in the States. (But, if we stillwant
     to be skeptic, we may ask: how many people, actually, use
     this great service around this big country?)

In our public schools students are being taught how to write suicide notes.
They are being shown a variety of methods of creating suicide and given
recommendations about which are preferable. They are told about and taught
to do, indeed, build models of their coffins. The Bible says that those that
hate God love death, and that is what all of this is: just death, death and
more death.
--Rev. D. James Kennedy, "A Noble Origin and Destiny"

                                                           (quoted by Sz.Z)

As I stated earlier -- the H+Judeo-Christian religious ethic
absolutely forbids suicide.
Just because some Japanese and other cultures perform ritualistic
suicides does NOT make them right!
I certainly  (I I hope that no one out there) wants to have their
children be taught about suicide.....things can be though enough
without godless people out there!
Peter Soltesz

On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Zoltan Szekely wrote:

> In our public schools students are being taught how to write suicide notes.
> They are being shown a variety of methods of creating suicide and given
> recommendations about which are preferable. They are told about and taught
> to do, indeed, build models of their coffins. The Bible says that those that
> hate God love death, and that is what all of this is: just death, death and
> more death.
> --Rev. D. James Kennedy, "A Noble Origin and Destiny"
>
>                                                            (quoted by Sz.Z)
>

Perhaps one needs to figure out how to re adjust the salary scales.
Pray tell me why a head of department should not make $56K?
For that matter what about a lawyer making only 300kHUF $24K annually?
If you do want qaulity work then they need to be paid for. Of course
I disagree with unskilled labor getting that kind of salary in HU.
They should have a decent living wage though!
Peter Soltesz

Sam Stowe to Zsargo Janos:

> Like it or not, your generation of Hungarians has a lot of positive things
> to learn from the U.S. (and Canada, too, for that matter), things that can
> help Hungary overcome the suffering it has endured during this century and
> make sure it never inflicts such misery on itself again.

It sounds like Big Brother tries to encourage the little one.
No, sir, Hungary did not inflicted miseries on itself. The Big
Brother did it. In Trianon the Antant was the Big Brother,
after this the Third Empire, and later the Russian. (Who knows,
maybe the United States of America wants to be the next one?)

May God save us from Big Brothers forever!            Sz. Zoli

Kedves Peter and Listmembers!

At 11:47 30/09/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 3:11 AM 9/30/96, S or G Farkas wrote:
<snip>
>>> Andras, do you really think it would have been possible to save all the
>>>Hungarian jews (or a large portion of them) with preserving their all
>>>civil rights and without any discrimination? Among those geopolitical
>>>circumstances and with a fictive ideal Hungarian government.
>>
>>Well, there were cases where under worse geopolitical circumstances all the
>>Jews were saved. And when the Germans ordered the wearing of the yellow
>>stars, the whole country, including the royal family put it on.
>>
>>So, the answer is yes (as far as I am concerned).
>>
>>Gabor D. Farkas

<snip> The Danes saved their Jews but it is a myth that their king wore
>the star of David. The Germans were aware of the rescue of the Danish Jews
>to Sweden and decided not to prevent it.
<snip again>

>Peter I. Hidas
>Montreal

Couldn't let this go by, as it is something I know about. My grandfather was
born in Copenhagen, and although he was long resident in the U.S., my family
watched closely the events in Denmark during the War. My great-grandmother
lived in Sweden just across the Sound from Denmark, and my second cousin's
father was one of those Jews who was smuggled in a fishing boat over to
Sweden from Denmark.

It was certainly not a myth that the Danish king wore the yellow Star of
David. He was famous for riding his horse every day during the German
occupation of Denmark, and he always wore the Star on his coat. My mother
tells me that the entire royal family wore the Star, and she remembers
seeing pictures of it in the papers in the U.S. at the time. I believe there
is also a picture of that on the cover or inside my mother's paperback
edition of a book called *The Danish Resistance.* (Don't have particulars of
the book; sorry, the book is in Pennsylvania, and I am in Nova Scotia.)

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if Peter may be right that the Germans knew
about the Jews being smuggled out of Denmark and did nothing to stop it. I
suspect that they treated the Danes somewhat better than other conquered
peoples because they were considered to be a kindred Germanic people, and
this may have extended to letting them get away with smuggling the Jews out.

Very respectfully,

Johanne/Janka


>
>
Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 

Thank you for your insight. It really feels good to find out the truth.


Albert Albu

Peter/Zoltan -

Question - are you two related?  Genetically or otherwise?

At 05:40 PM 01/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>As I stated earlier -- the H+Judeo-Christian religious ethic
>absolutely forbids suicide.
>Just because some Japanese and other cultures perform ritualistic
>suicides does NOT make them right!

Of course not!  Your personally acclaimed choice of religion _must_ be
right, *right*? Funny thing - how many members out there have ever yet,
heard of any tribe, or an oriental, *ever* claiming that their beliefs, and,
*only* their beliefs, are the *right* beliefs.  By your written words, one
can only deduce, that, *their* God(s)' interpreteurs might have a done a
*superior* job of teaching their followers respect for others' beliefs?

Another question - that I wish to tie in to an ongoing topic at this time -
a person of your obvious convictions, one, who openly demeans and disregards
respect for any other belief(s) under the stars - how would *you* have
treated the Jewish situation between 1938 - 1944 - 1996?  Oh, by the way,
this question obviously has no geographical boundaries - we are in
cyberspace after all.

>I certainly  (I I hope that no one out there) wants to have their
>children be taught about suicide.....things can be though enough
>without godless people out there!

This comment is frightfully sounding like it comes from a human, who is
attempting to instill "Godfearing" traits into other human minds.  (One
could, without any effort  assume, that this person is attempting to play
God Himself, by such a comment).  Are you sure, that you would not like to
re-phrase it?  Perhaps, to be more inline with the modern mental religous
concepts of 1996?

Aniko.

>Peter Soltesz
>
>On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Zoltan Szekely wrote:
>
>> In our public schools students are being taught how to write suicide notes.
>> They are being shown a variety of methods of creating suicide and given
>> recommendations about which are preferable. They are told about and taught
>> to do, indeed, build models of their coffins. The Bible says that those that
>> hate God love death, and that is what all of this is: just death, death and
>> more death.
>> --Rev. D. James Kennedy, "A Noble Origin and Destiny"
>>
>>                                                            (quoted by Sz.Z)
>>
>
>

At 04:29 PM 01/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>In our public schools students are being taught how to write suicide notes.
>They are being shown a variety of methods of creating suicide and given
>recommendations about which are preferable. They are told about and taught
>to do, indeed, build models of their coffins. The Bible says that those that
>hate God love death, and that is what all of this is: just death, death and
>more death.
>--Rev. D. James Kennedy, "A Noble Origin and Destiny"
>
>                                                           (quoted by Sz.Z)
Zoltan:

In order to take this posting of yours at all seriously, it would help to
provide the following information regarding the school being used in this quote
:

Name and location of school
Principal's name
Teachers' names, involved with the above quoted "exercise(s)."

Regards,
Aniko

PS - you still don't get it Zoltan, do you?  The meaning of the word "guest"
which I mean to refer to memory to.

In a message dated 96-10-01 18:01:30 EDT,  (Zoltan
Szekely) writes:
<< In our public schools students are being taught how to write suicide
notes.
 >They are being shown a variety of methods of creating suicide and given
 >recommendations about which are preferable. They are told about and taught
 >to do, indeed, build models of their coffins. The Bible says that those
that
 >hate God love death, and that is what all of this is: just death, death and
 >more death.
 >--Rev. D. James Kennedy, "A Noble Origin and Destiny"
                                                             (quoted by
Sz.Z)>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
----
Zoltan,

What is this? Where do you get this trash? Are you certified nuts? What is
your problem with America? I think it is high time for you to have your head
examined -
what are you doing here in the States anyway, would you not be happier in
Hungary?
"Nem kotelezo a disznotor!" (I don't know how to translate this into
english!!)

Let me quote  Edith So^dergran - -

                                     HELL
                     " Oh the magnificence of hell!
                       In hell no one speaks of death.
                       Hell is walled up in the bowels of the earth
                       and adorned with glowing flowers ...
                       In hell no one says an empty word ...
                       In hell no one has drunk and no one has slept
                       and no one rests and no one sits still.
                       In hell no one speaks but everyone screams,
                       there, tears are not tears and all grief is powerless.
                       In hell no one falls ill and no one tires.
                       Hell is constant and eternal. "

Marina

In article <v01540b00ae75443e6698@[198.168.48.46]>,
 says...
>
>At 3:11 AM 9/30/96, S or G Farkas wrote:
>>At 08:43 AM 9/30/96 +0100, Zs. J.  wrote:
>>>A.Kornai wrote:
>
>>> Andras, do you really think it would have been possible to save all
the
>>>Hungarian jews (or a large portion of them) with preserving their all
>>>civil rights and without any discrimination? Among those geopolitical
>>>circumstances and with a fictive ideal Hungarian government.
>>
>>Well, there were cases where under worse geopolitical circumstances all
the
>>Jews were saved. And when the Germans ordered the wearing of the yellow
>>stars, the whole country, including the royal family put it on.
>>
>>So, the answer is yes (as far as I am concerned).
>>
>>Gabor D. Farkas
>
>Bulgaria refused to  hand over its Jewish citizens to the Germans but
would
>not protect the Jews who lived on its annexed territories. Finland had
no
>Holocaust. The Danes saved their Jews but it is a myth that their king
wore
>the star of David. The Germans were aware of the rescue of the Danish
Jews
>to Sweden and decided not to prevent it.
>
>Hungary introduced anti-Semitic laws well before Hitler came to power.
The
>three so-called Jewish Laws were passed in the late 1930s and early
1940s
>in order to pacify  the large consituency of Hungarian pro-Nazi
extremists
>as well as for ther purpose to obtain Hitler's support for the revision
of
>the Treaty of Trianon. Both Bulgaria and Hungary were willing to to rob
>their Jewish citizens of their properties, dignity and livelihood but
not
>their lives. Professor Istvan Deak wrote in The New York Review of Books
>that without the occupation of Hungary, which came about because the
>government became unreliable from Germany's point of view, the
deportation
>of the Hungarian Jewish community would not have taken place.
>
>Peter I. Hidas
>Montreal

I don't think it is a myth, Peter.  I was very young, but I remember what
a sensation it was among the Jewish community of Budapest when we heard
about the Danish king putting up the star of David.  We probably heard it
on the BBC, to which my father listened religiously every night.

Agnes

At 06:25 PM 01/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Sam Stowe to Zsargo Janos:
>
>> Like it or not, your generation of Hungarians has a lot of positive things
>> to learn from the U.S. (and Canada, too, for that matter), things that can
>> help Hungary overcome the suffering it has endured during this century and
>> make sure it never inflicts such misery on itself again.
>
>It sounds like Big Brother tries to encourage the little one.
>No, sir, Hungary did not inflicted miseries on itself. The Big
>Brother did it. In Trianon the Antant was the Big Brother,
>after this the Third Empire, and later the Russian. (Who knows,
>maybe the United States of America wants to be the next one?)
>
>May God save us from Big Brothers forever!            Sz. Zoli
>
Ok, Zolika *Dra'ga"

This is where you have drawn the ultimate line!!!  This is when all excuses
on your behalf, for lack of English, culture el at stop to be extended!
Although I am *not* American, but Canadian; and Hungarian by birth and much
of heart; - this is where my tolerance level runs out, for your ongoing
"bs", "ignorance", if not your egotistically proven "opportunistic" (in case
you don't get it in English=kihasznalo") traits you have portrayed, ends the
meaning of even being funny.

If you so wish that your God save *us* (btw, I like the way you include us,
into your picture ... although none has really given you

In article >,
 says...
>
>This small article from the Associated Press was in today's Record, our
>local newspaper.
>-------------------------------
>
>Hungary salutes Yehudi Menuhin
>
>Yehudi Menuhin's longtime support of Hungarian music has earned him the
>country's highest civilian award.
>
>The U.S.-born violinist received the Order of Merit of the Republic on
>Monday from President Arpad Goncz.
>
>The 80-year old Menuhin is a great admirer of Hungarian folk music,
>especially Gypsy music.  He was a friend of Hungarian composer Bela
Bartok
>and commissioned Bartok's Sonata for Solo Violin in 1944.
>
>Menuhin is in Hungary to conduct a gala concert today for World Music
Day
>and the 50th anniversary of the United Nations Educational, Scientific
and
>Cultural Organization.
>-----------------------------------
>
>Joe Szalai

Thank you for sharing this info, Joe.  Incidentally, so far as I am
aware, Bartok wrote his violin concerto for Menuhin.

Agnes

In article >, 
says...
>
>>In article >, Andy Kozma
> writes:
>>
>>>O my will I get bashed over my head to write anything different about
the
>>Us.
>>>Hey wait a minute,my Son just became a US citisen,and will be able to
>>vote
>>>for the first time.Give me a break.
>>>Regards:Andy.>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Andy, you're a man out of your time. As late as the 1950s, comedy based
on
>>ethnic stereotyping was still acceptable in the U.S. But the social
>>upheaval of the 1960s has changed all that. You no longer have to
confine
>>yourself to playing the insular, smug Canadian. I don't know how you'll
>>deal with this newfound freedom. Ask Joe Szalai -- he may have some
useful
>>ideas.
>>Sam Stowe
>>
>>P.S. -- I hear they're redesigning the U.S. flag to make room for the
new
>>stars that'll have to be added when Ontario and every province to the
west
>>petition for admission to the Union. And there's nothing wrong with
your
>>spelling. It is, I presume, the standard version taught in Canada's
public
>>schools?
>>
>>
>>"The true champion of justice, if he intends to survive
>>even for a short time, must necessarily confine
>>himself to private life and leave politics alone."
>>-- Plato, "Apology"
>>
>>Plato was right,and this proves my point about intellectuals in this
thread.
> Your thought about public schools in Cnada,might be right,except in my
>case,since I finished all my schooling in Hungary,and did not have the
>pleasure of any canadian or american schooling.
>Most of you had the great fortune to study on this continent,so naturaly
you
>must have a higher educationthen me.I learned from life,newspapers,tv
etc,to
>read and write english,and to speak as well as I do.
>By the way Plato did not predict a new flag for the States,and as far as
I
>am concerned we are quite happy to live in this Country,and ahve the
>pleasure to watch all the good american chanels,especialy the football
games.
>I don't think our affiliation to the ever loved States will happen,even
if
>Quebec dumies would like to separate.
>You know hwo it is:as long life is good,you might think you will have a
>better one.No way Hose.
>Regards:Andy.

Andy, I don't see why your Hungarian education would be less than that of
those people who finished their schooling here.  Somewhere else you write
that you finished gimnazium.  In our times, gimnazium was a very high
education.  Even when I came to Canada I was told that it is worth at
least a BA here.  During my long career as a secretary in Canada, I have
met scores of university graduates who had no idea of English spelling or
grammar.  They all depended on me to correct them.  (Of course, you know
what nebbich means?) And only in the last few years of my career was
there a spell check on the computer.. I also used work for a French
engineer, who did all the Quebec-related work.  His French was so bad
that even with my high-school French I was able to correct half of his
work - the other half I asked more intelligent Frenchmen to correct.

Agnes

Agnes

Hi,


>
>         Only in Hungary! The association of Hungarian swimmers was in big
> trouble a few days ago. It turned out that the composition of the Hungarian
> Olyampic swimming team bore no resemblance to the actual results of
> pre-Olympic trials. The secretary and the president cheated: they changed
> the final results. Huge upheaval. The minister of interior in charge of
> sports was furious and was asking for the head of the president and
> secretary guilty of the fraud. They resigned. But then the board, consisting
> of 60 people, got together and reelected the same men to head the
> association. Who cares about such minor problems as fraud? Obivously, nobody.

Actual there was not trial at all they got the result from a fictive one.
This trouble was already published before the Olympic games in MAI NAP and
nobody
cared. Now the owner of NEPSZAVA Fenyo Janos has some affair with Gyarfas who
is
the president of the swimming commitee (and owner of NAP TV and other media).
So NEPSZAVA came back with this 'news' which appeared on the first page of it
at least twice as large in size as the visiting of the pope.
Then Gyarfas ordered another article from a journalist on 'Hungarian Olympic
frauds' which never appeared as the newspapers was not willing to publish it.
The fact that this is the affair of Fenyo and Gyarfas was clear in the TV show
there Gyarfas and the editor in chief of NEPSZAVA were the guests. All the
arguments were about the business affairs of Gyarfas, the investigation againts
him and so on.
By the way the swimmers knew about this fraud and accepted it (so they
reelected
Gyarfas).

        Akos

>Eva Balogh writes:
>> The two other deputy directors make 294.541 Fts/month. Ten directors at
>the
>> TV make 366,391 Fts./month and 30 heads of departments 190.000
>Fts./month.
>> The prime minister's salary is only 270,000 Fts./month.
>
>>         Americans who are used to fabulous salaries of anchor men and
>women
>> at American tv companies might not find these figures too high. But I
>think
>> that these salaries should rather be compared to salaries at National
>Public
>> Radio or TV, where some well positioned people make no more than
>> $30-40,000/year. And that in the United States and not in Hungary where a
>> doctor's take-home pay is around $25,000 Fts./month.
>
>Why should not whitchdoctors make more money than regular ones? :-)
>
>Regards,Jeliko
>

Some more extra-high salaries:

APV Rt. (State Privatization Agency)

heads of departments - 700.000 Ft/month
lawyers              - 300.000 Ft/month
unskilled (e.g. doormanm, cleaners. etc.) 70.000 - 110.000 Ft/month

In APV Rt. every second employee has a mobile-phone, every fourth has an
afficial car (not a Trabant :-).

And now they payed 300.000.000 Ft a "lawyer"-adviser (some say it was
850.000.000 Ft). Yes, 300 million forints (some 2 million dollars)! It was a
one-time contract for a few days.

BTW: nurses get about 15.000 ft/month. A nurse have to work 1666 years to
get 300 million forints!

Bye,

******************************
*       Lajos Monoki         *
*  NCR Hungary - CSS Szeged  *
* e-mail: *
*  Tel/Fax: +36-62-434101    *
*    Mobil: +36-30-584523    *
******************************


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
           Edgar Allan Poe