Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 529
Copyright (C) HIX
1995-12-24
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: gypsies (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Gypsies/Hungarian (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: gypsies (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Gypsies/Hungarian (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: HL- Status Report (Romania) (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
6 Looking for recipe (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
7 The Gypsy problem (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: AD TE NEKED (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: To All (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
10 HL-Preparations Completed (mind)  146 sor     (cikkei)
11 HL-Preparations Completed (mind)  146 sor     (cikkei)
12 Hungarian email pointer (Version: 0.90, Last-modified: (mind)  96 sor     (cikkei)
13 Gypsies/Hungarian (mind)  56 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: gypsies (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Felado :  [Canada]
> Temakor: Re: Gypsies/Hungarian ( 52 sor )
>
> It's interesting that some writers to this list say that anti gypsy feelings
> in Hungary are more serious than anti-semitic sentiments.
Much more so. At this point, Jews identifiable at a glance as Jews (by their
Orthodox garb yarmulke etc.) are few and far between. I would think we are
talking of a community of a few hundred people, mostly very old. Gypsies at a
glance identifiable as Gypsies number in the hundred thousands -- by some
estimate they make up nearly 10% of the population. From that fact alone one
would extect racial hatred directed at Jews to be somewhat diffuse and racial
hatred directed at Gypsies to be much more concentrated (as it has a large and
visible target). Also, the stereotypical Hungarian Jew is a middle-class
person: a doctor, a lawyer, a journalist or something like that.  The
stereotypical Hungarian Gypsy is a member of the agrarian underclass or the
lumpenproletariat: a seasonal worker, or even a professional criminal. These
stereotypes exaggerate (or summarize) rather clear statistical tendencies.

> In the Hungarian community in Hamilton I thought it was just the opposite.
Sure, why not? One would think that Hungarian communities in the US/Canada
will preserve a great deal of the attitudes of the people who started them,
mostly the "nincstelenek" who tried to escape the incredible rural poverty
characterizing Hungary in the first third of the century. For such people,
their only contact with (and only experience of) Jews was with the owner
of the village store. Indeed, for many people of that generation "megyek a
zsido1hoz" means "I'm going to the store" even if the store is owned by
gentiles. As for being 'jewed' this is an English expression -- how does
it go in Hungarian?

Andra1s Kornai
+ - Re: Gypsies/Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 23 Dec 95 at 0:19, Joe Szalai wrote:

> The dictionary says that gyp is
> probably from the Greek meaning gyps, a vulture.  I don't mean to
> disagree with Webster's but could gyp in some way be from gypsy?)

American Heritage and several other dictionaries disagree with Webster,
giving the origin of "gyp" as a shortened form of Gypsy. Interestingly,
American Roma often use the term "gadj" in exactly the same way as
non-Roma use "gyp" and "jew" (i.e. when cheated by an auto mechanic
one might say "he gadjed me"). The term comes from the Romani word
for non-Gypsies, gadje.

--Rebecca Tracy
+ - Re: gypsies (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andras Kornai wrote:

>One would think that Hungarian communities in the US/Canada
>will preserve a great deal of the attitudes of the people who started them,
>mostly the "nincstelenek" who tried to escape the incredible rural poverty
>characterizing Hungary in the first third of the century. For such people,
>their only contact with (and only experience of) Jews was with the owner
>of the village store.

What you say is probably true.  However my contact with the Hungarian
community was/is limited mainly to the '56ers.  It was amongst some of them
that I heard a lot of anti-semitic comments.  My contact with the much
smaller pre-WW2 community was limited.  However, I don't recall them making
anti-semitic remarks, although no doubt some of them were anti-semitic
probably due to the reasons you state.

The point I was trying to make (not very clearly, I guess) was that racism,
bigotry, etc., are metastatic.  When there are a lot of gypsies around, the
racist hates the gypsy.  When the demographics change the racist also
changes.  When some of the '56ers discovered that there was no gypsy
community to rile against they turned toward another 'acceptable' group -
the jews.  They hadn't yet discovered that anti-semitism was not really in
vogue in Canada.  When they did, their response (and others as well) was to
redirect their intolerance towards a growing number of visible groups.

In my opinion, there are similarities between racists and hypochondriacs.
They both require some level of social acceptance.  The racist relies on
certain truths that are embedded within stereotypes for their fuel.  They
have a need to appear logical and normal.  Likewise, a hypochondriac will
only complain about 'socially acceptable' illnesses because they wish to
convince the doctor that they have a legitimate disease.

Andras also asks:

>As for being 'jewed' this is an English expression -- how does
>it go in Hungarian?

I don't know.  My Hungarian language skills are limited.

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: Gypsies/Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Rebecca Tracy wrote:

>American Heritage and several other dictionaries disagree with Webster,
>giving the origin of "gyp" as a shortened form of Gypsy. Interestingly,
>American Roma often use the term "gadj" in exactly the same way as
>non-Roma use "gyp" and "jew" (i.e. when cheated by an auto mechanic
>one might say "he gadjed me"). The term comes from the Romani word
>for non-Gypsies, gadje.

In English, the word 'gouge' also means 'a fraud, a cheat, an imposter'.
Maybe Rebecca can tell us if 'gouge' and 'gadj' are pronounced the same way.
And if they are, I wonder if the slang meaning of 'gouge' is possibly from
the Romani 'gadj'.  Once again my Webster's dictionary gives the slang
meaning of gouge but not its origin.

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: HL- Status Report (Romania) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


+ - Looking for recipe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am posting this message in a newsgroup specifically for recipes but
thought I'd try here as well.

I am searching for a recipe for a bread-type dessert that my grandmother
made at Christmas.  I don't know the actual spelling but she called it
kollach (ch as in child).  I have seen recipes for something of a similar
name but they appear to be for something like cookies.  This is a bread
which is rolled like jelly roll (in fairly thin layers) with a walnut and
sugar filling.

I would appreciate any help you can give.

Happy holidays!
+ - The Gypsy problem (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Rebecca Tracy's distinction of "culture" as opposed to "condition" is a
useful one. Perhaps we should all keep this in mind when discussing the
"Gypsy problem."

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: AD TE NEKED (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Michael D Shafer writes:

>         Hello!

>         I have a quick translation to ask:

>         I want to say 'he gives the stars to you', it is a title
>         for an artwork.

Well let me count the ways. Depending on the context it can be done several
different ways, for this type of thing it is the meaning and nort the words
that need to be translated. The first thing that came to my mind was the
old "slager" "Lehoznam neked a csillagokat is az egbol" but that was in a
boy to girl context. "Neked adja a csillagokat" is the word translation,
this again could be turned into "A csillagokat neked adja" or  "Neked
adja a csillagokat" or "Adja neked a scillagokat" perhaps in an emphasized
way "A csillagokat is neked adja".

Having had the chance to read several literary works both in original
Hungarian and in their English transations, I have come to the conclusion
that most of them were comitted (as in crime) by people who either did not
know well either English or Hungarian. The greatest enemy of translating
feelings and meanings is word translation. Often the context requires
transliteration rather than translation. Perhaps if you describe the art
work a better transliteration can be offered. Although at times an
incorrect translation can be very meaningful. My favorit one was from a
native English speaker "Minden enyem szerelem neked". I will never forget
it.

Merry Christmas!
+ - Re: To All (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I fully agreee with Joe.  This guy is a nut case - foul language, horrible
spelling, no manners.  Get the the hell out of here Mr. Bullshit.
Regards, Adam


Brooklyn, NY, USA
+ - HL-Preparations Completed (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues,

Our 3 month period of preparation is over. This is the last time that you can
sigh up to participate in the work of the Hungarian lobby by sending me a
note to that effect. After the first of the year we will have a formal list
of participants and you will be asked to subscribe directly to the HL-list.
Unon subscribing, you will receive the "information letter" which is quoted
below.

Thanks to those of you who are responsible for the excellent article in the
Miami Herald on the oppression of Hungarian national communities and thanks
to all who helped to reach this point (Jozsef Balazs, Laszlo Bollyky, Ed
Chaszar, Tibor Cseh, Csaba Gaal, Jeffrey Goldberg, Paul Gelencser, Imre
Holenyi, Jozsef Horti, Peter Kaslik, Arpad Kovacs, Peter Kovalszki, Edith
Lauer Jeno Megyesi, Lajos Pagony, Szabolcs Petrovay, Gotthard Sagi-Szabo,
Andrew Simon, Peter Soltesz, Mihaly Tapolyay, Taszlo Toth, Andy Vadasz,
Eszter Ziegler and many others.

Happy Holydays: Bela Liptak

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Welcome to the Hungarian Lobby (HL) List,

1996 will be the 1100th anniversary of Hungarian statehood, the 40th
anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution. 1996 is also an election year in the
United States, when the 1.58 million Hungarian-Americans could exercise (for
the first time ever) some political influence. HL's goal is protect Hungary
from defamation and to protect, not only the oppressed Hungarian national
communities of the Danubian region, but all ethnic minorities, including
Jews, Romas and others.

The Hungarian Lobby (HL) is not a discussion group or a debating society. Our
operation is action oriented, our goal is to influence our political leaders
and the media thorugh the writing of letters and articles, which we send by
E-mail, fax-broadcasting and regular mail. All HL participants are asked to
post ALL  letters they send to their representatives or the press, so that we
all can benefit from the ideas contained in them and can give support, if we
agree with them. Similarly we would like you to post all news of law and
human rights violations over-there, or of incomplete or erroneous reporting
of Hungary-related news over-here. Please send E-mail letters or news items
to:  .

If you want to take part in our fax-chainletter efforts, and IF you have an
AUTOMATIC fax machine (one that accepts a fax message automatically: does not
need to be turned on manually ), please fax a note to Dr. Bollyky at
203-967-4845.The home page of the Hungarian Lobby is at:
 http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/   It contains the E-Mail addresses and fax
numbers of all members of the USA Congress, Senate, Newspapers and others
outside the USA.. Old letters and articles posted on HL can also be obtained
on the World Wide Web at the home page address:
http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/archive/. A complete list of the addresses of ALL
European newspapers can be found at: http://www.dds.nl/~kidon/papers.html

According to the present concept, the HL has no leaders. It is the
association of people, who care about justice and human rights, who feel that
their voice will be multiplied and their work will be more effective, if they
act together. Our present operation (which, I am sure will change with time
and experience), is as follows:  When a member (ANY MEMBER) of the HL feels,
that we should speak up in connection with some deed or event, he or she will
compose a letter addressing that issue and send it to a political leader or
to a newspaper AND IN ADDITION to the HL list. Members of HL, who agree with
the received text, will read the letter and if they agree with it, they too
will mail it (or some version of it) to their local papers and/or to their
political representatives. In other words, all members of HL can initiate an
action or can participate in an action initiated by others,  if they agree.

We have already succeeded to reach the point of sending several hundred
letters within 24 hours of  learning about a human right abuse or an unlawful
act. Our goal is to increase that number into the thousands and to expand our
span of attention to include such problem areas as environmental abuses, the
defense of open societies in general and the freedom of the press in
particular. In the following paragraphs, I will list the specific deeds that
we ask of you, if you join the HL:

1) HL members should keep the E-mail (or Fax) addresses of their President,
Senators, Congressmen and local newspapers readily available for use, so when
the occasion arises, they can send on a letter within minutes.

2) We ask all HL members to agree that within 24 hours of receiving a
form-letter, they will read it, and if they agree with its purpose, content
and style, they will send it (or some variety of it) on,  to their own
addresses.

3) We ask all HL members to agree, that when they initiate a chain-letter,
they should carefully check the validity of its facts, should weigh the
importance of the topic and should use appropriate manners and style. When
writing to a Senator, you should be formal and brief. Two paragraphs are the
best, but should never exceed one page. You should identify yourself and
outline your concern in the first paragraph. In the second paragraph you
should outline why that concern is important to the United States. You should
always include your postal address in addition to your title and signature.
(At the end of this letter, I am attaching a typical chain-letter as an
example.)

4)  If you find the work of HL useful, please ask your friends and relatives
to join us.

With best personal regards: Bela Liptak

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

THE INDIVIDUALIZED FORM-LETTER:

RE: Religious Discrimination In Romania

POTENTIAL ADDRESSES:
President Bill Clinton:   fax: 202-456-2461
VP Al Gore:   fax:202-973-2600
Senator Robert Dole: fax: 202-228-1245
Congressman Newton Gingrich:  fax: 202-225-4656

The Honorable ....

Dear ....

I am (A MEMBER, OFFICER, PRESIDENT ETC. OF XYZ ORGANIZATION, CHURCH,
COMPANY...). Similarly to the 1.58 million American voters of Hungarian
origin, I too am concerned about the oppression of the indigenous Hungarian
national community in Romania. I am particularly concerned about the new
language law which would destroy one of Europe's oldest, the Hungarian school
system in Transylvania.

I am also concerned that while the property of the Romanian Orthodox Church,
which was also confiscated by the Communists, has been returned, the church
 property of the Hungarian national community, has still not been returned.
It includes 1,041 schools, 28 boarding schools, 20 teachers residences, 16
hospitals and orphanages, 126 priests' houses and 70 convents.

Dear Mr. (PRESIDENT,  SENATOR, CONGRESSMAN...) It is in our national interest
to be the moral and ethical leaders of the free world. Therefore, I  would
like to learn your
views on this matter and the steps you might take to help alleviate the
suffering of the Hungarian national community in Romania. There is no more
basic human right as one's right to protect one's church, property and the
right to speak one's mother tongue, enjoy  one's culture. In a country such
as Romania, which strives to enter the European Community, the civilized
world should not allow these basic rights to be denied.

I know, that a letter from you to President Iliescu of Romania would help to
change this situation. I would be honored if you decided to consider this
recommendation of mine. I thank you in advance and assure you that I will
work very hard for your reelection.

Respectfully yours,

YOUR NAME, ADDRESS,TITLE
+ - HL-Preparations Completed (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues,

Our 3 month period of preparation is over. This is the last time that you can
sigh up to participate in the work of the Hungarian lobby by sending me a
note to that effect. After the first of the year we will have a formal list
of participants and you will be asked to subscribe directly to the HL-list.
Unon subscribing, you will receive the "information letter" which is quoted
below.

Thanks to those of you who are responsible for the excellent article in the
Miami Herald on the oppression of Hungarian national communities and thanks
to all who helped to reach this point (Jozsef Balazs, Laszlo Bollyky, Ed
Chaszar, Tibor Cseh, Csaba Gaal, Jeffrey Goldberg, Paul Gelencser, Imre
Holenyi, Jozsef Horti, Peter Kaslik, Arpad Kovacs, Peter Kovalszki, Edith
Lauer Jeno Megyesi, Lajos Pagony, Szabolcs Petrovay, Gotthard Sagi-Szabo,
Andrew Simon, Peter Soltesz, Mihaly Tapolyay, Taszlo Toth, Andy Vadasz,
Eszter Ziegler and many others.

Happy Holydays: Bela Liptak

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Welcome to the Hungarian Lobby (HL) List,

1996 will be the 1100th anniversary of Hungarian statehood, the 40th
anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution. 1996 is also an election year in the
United States, when the 1.58 million Hungarian-Americans could exercise (for
the first time ever) some political influence. HL's goal is protect Hungary
from defamation and to protect, not only the oppressed Hungarian national
communities of the Danubian region, but all ethnic minorities, including
Jews, Romas and others.

The Hungarian Lobby (HL) is not a discussion group or a debating society. Our
operation is action oriented, our goal is to influence our political leaders
and the media thorugh the writing of letters and articles, which we send by
E-mail, fax-broadcasting and regular mail. All HL participants are asked to
post ALL  letters they send to their representatives or the press, so that we
all can benefit from the ideas contained in them and can give support, if we
agree with them. Similarly we would like you to post all news of law and
human rights violations over-there, or of incomplete or erroneous reporting
of Hungary-related news over-here. Please send E-mail letters or news items
to:  .

If you want to take part in our fax-chainletter efforts, and IF you have an
AUTOMATIC fax machine (one that accepts a fax message automatically: does not
need to be turned on manually ), please fax a note to Dr. Bollyky at
203-967-4845.The home page of the Hungarian Lobby is at:
 http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/   It contains the E-Mail addresses and fax
numbers of all members of the USA Congress, Senate, Newspapers and others
outside the USA.. Old letters and articles posted on HL can also be obtained
on the World Wide Web at the home page address:
http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/archive/. A complete list of the addresses of ALL
European newspapers can be found at: http://www.dds.nl/~kidon/papers.html

According to the present concept, the HL has no leaders. It is the
association of people, who care about justice and human rights, who feel that
their voice will be multiplied and their work will be more effective, if they
act together. Our present operation (which, I am sure will change with time
and experience), is as follows:  When a member (ANY MEMBER) of the HL feels,
that we should speak up in connection with some deed or event, he or she will
compose a letter addressing that issue and send it to a political leader or
to a newspaper AND IN ADDITION to the HL list. Members of HL, who agree with
the received text, will read the letter and if they agree with it, they too
will mail it (or some version of it) to their local papers and/or to their
political representatives. In other words, all members of HL can initiate an
action or can participate in an action initiated by others,  if they agree.
 
We have already succeeded to reach the point of sending several hundred
letters within 24 hours of  learning about a human right abuse or an unlawful
act. Our goal is to increase that number into the thousands and to expand our
span of attention to include such problem areas as environmental abuses, the
defense of open societies in general and the freedom of the press in
particular. In the following paragraphs, I will list the specific deeds that
we ask of you, if you join the HL:

1) HL members should keep the E-mail (or Fax) addresses of their President,
Senators, Congressmen and local newspapers readily available for use, so when
the occasion arises, they can send on a letter within minutes.

2) We ask all HL members to agree that within 24 hours of receiving a
form-letter, they will read it, and if they agree with its purpose, content
and style, they will send it (or some variety of it) on,  to their own
addresses.

3) We ask all HL members to agree, that when they initiate a chain-letter,
they should carefully check the validity of its facts, should weigh the
importance of the topic and should use appropriate manners and style. When
writing to a Senator, you should be formal and brief. Two paragraphs are the
best, but should never exceed one page. You should identify yourself and
outline your concern in the first paragraph. In the second paragraph you
should outline why that concern is important to the United States. You should
always include your postal address in addition to your title and signature.
(At the end of this letter, I am attaching a typical chain-letter as an
example.)

4)  If you find the work of HL useful, please ask your friends and relatives
to join us.

With best personal regards: Bela Liptak

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

THE INDIVIDUALIZED FORM-LETTER:

RE: Religious Discrimination In Romania

POTENTIAL ADDRESSES:
President Bill Clinton:   fax: 202-456-2461
VP Al Gore:   fax:202-973-2600
Senator Robert Dole: fax: 202-228-1245
Congressman Newton Gingrich:  fax: 202-225-4656

The Honorable ....

Dear ....

I am (A MEMBER, OFFICER, PRESIDENT ETC. OF XYZ ORGANIZATION, CHURCH,
COMPANY...). Similarly to the 1.58 million American voters of Hungarian
origin, I too am concerned about the oppression of the indigenous Hungarian
national community in Romania. I am particularly concerned about the new
language law which would destroy one of Europe's oldest, the Hungarian school
system in Transylvania.

I am also concerned that while the property of the Romanian Orthodox Church,
which was also confiscated by the Communists, has been returned, the church
 property of the Hungarian national community, has still not been returned.
It includes 1,041 schools, 28 boarding schools, 20 teachers residences, 16
hospitals and orphanages, 126 priests' houses and 70 convents. 

Dear Mr. (PRESIDENT,  SENATOR, CONGRESSMAN...) It is in our national interest
to be the moral and ethical leaders of the free world. Therefore, I  would
like to learn your
views on this matter and the steps you might take to help alleviate the
suffering of the Hungarian national community in Romania. There is no more
basic human right as one's right to protect one's church, property and the
right to speak one's mother tongue, enjoy  one's culture. In a country such
as Romania, which strives to enter the European Community, the civilized
world should not allow these basic rights to be denied.

I know, that a letter from you to President Iliescu of Romania would help to
change this situation. I would be honored if you decided to consider this
recommendation of mine. I thank you in advance and assure you that I will
work very hard for your reelection.

Respectfully yours,

YOUR NAME, ADDRESS,TITLE
+ - Hungarian email pointer (Version: 0.90, Last-modified: (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Archive-name: hungarian/pointer
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: pointer
Bit-listserv-hungary-archive-name: pointer
Version: 0.90 (beta)
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 1995/11/21
URL: http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer

 This document summarizes network-related resources of Hungarian
interest, which are accessible via email. Some of the most readily
available sources of information can be found in the archives of
periodical information postings to Usenet; these documents are commonly
known as FAQs (from Frequently Asked/Answered Questions). Knowing the
name of the file you can retrieve it by sending email to
 with the command "send
usenet/news.answers/<ARCHIVE-NAME>" in the message (without the quotes,
and with substituting the actual name for <ARCHIVE-NAME> in the pattern
shown above) - for example, to get the document described below, use

 send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq

 To learn more about the RTFM server just send the command "help" to it
- it will provide step-by-step intstructions on how to use the
archives, on retrieving indexes and so on.

 "Hungarian electronic resources FAQ" is a comprehensive collection
dealing with email, FTP, WWW and other Internet tools; its archive name
is 'hungarian-faq' (and the mail-server command to get it is shown in
the example above).
 If you only have direct access to email then, in order to use the
other tools, you'll need the methods described in "Accessing The
Internet By E-Mail" (Archive-name:
internet-services/access-via-email).
 To get a general introduction to Usenet (with some guides to Internet
as well - and explanation of how they are different, too) see "Welcome
to news.newusers.questions!" (Archive-name: news-newusers-intro).
 For a guide to finding someone's e-mail addresses, see the "FAQ: How
to find people's E-mail addresses" (Archive-name: finding-addresses).
Do notice that it's usually inappropriate to send such blanket requests
to mailing lists; the search tools available give much better chance to
locate addresses sought than posted queries in any case!
 An overview of commercial on-line services in Hungary is available by
John Horvath >
(Archive-name: hungarian/comm-providers).

 The hungarian-faq describes several email lists related to Hungary;
only a brief summary is shown here. Please keep in mind that
subscription requests (and other administrative communications) should
be directed to the server address, NOT to the lists themselves.

Server: 
 List:  (the HUNGARY LISTSERV list)

Server: 
 List: HOL (Hungary Online)

Server: 
 List: hungary-report

Server: 
 Lists: OMRI-L (Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest)
        MIDEUR-L (Middle European discussion list)

Server: 
 List: cet-online (Central Europe Today On-Line; email )

Server: 
 List: CERRO-L (Central European Regional Research Organization)

Server: email to  (Hollosi Information Exchange)
 Lists: HIX is a collection of several separate lists, including
  - MOZAIK, a collection of news items in English
  - various discussion forums in Hungarian language
  - SCM and HUNGROUPS, which are email-accessible archives of the Usenet
    newsgroup soc.culture.magyar and the hun.* national hierarchy,
    respectively; to get a directory listing of these archives (as well
    as that of other HIX lists), send email to  with
    "arch" in the 'Subject:' line. Note that the SENDDOC utility takes
    its parameter from the 'Subject:' of the message (unlike many other
    servers, like the ones described previously, which use the body)!

 Note that this document is available on the
 <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>; homepage for the "Hungarian
electronic resources FAQ" at the HIX WWW-server.
 The latter also provides access for the full FAQ via
 'finger ', and for this brief pointer you are
reading via 'finger ' (notice that you
will likely need to redirect the output to a pager or a file in order
to read it). The Usenet archive name for this document is
 hungarian/pointer .

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '>
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!
+ - Gypsies/Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

To Rebecca Tracy:

>one might say "he gadjed me"). The term comes from the Romani word
>for non-Gypsies, gadje.

As I know the "ga'dzsi" (I do not know how to write correctly) means women,
female in Roman. The word gadje looks similar to "ga'dzsi".

To Joe:

>would allow anyone to live in my appartment who paid the rent, didn't wreck
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the place, and allowed me eight hours of quiet at night.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Based on the underlined requirements one can say you do not accept
'significant differences'.

>>OK. Let me ask, what are those unaccepted 'significant(?) differences' in
>>the case of gypsies?
>
>Well, I don't know.  I see no significant differences in people.  Colour,
>race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, marital status, nationality,
>religion or lack thereof, etc., etc. are not significant to me.

Nor do I. However these small differences can cause serious problems
when peoples live together.
I think the real problem in the Gypsie-Hungarian relation is the
generalization, when all gypsies are considered as thefts, or criminals.

>Andras Kornai wrote:
>
>>One would think that Hungarian communities in the US/Canada
>>will preserve a great deal of the attitudes of the people who started them,
>>mostly the "nincstelenek" who tried to escape the incredible rural poverty
>>characterizing Hungary in the first third of the century. For such people,
>>their only contact with (and only experience of) Jews was with the owner
>>of the village store.
>
>What you say is probably true.  However my contact with the Hungarian
>community was/is limited mainly to the '56ers.  It was amongst some of them
>that I heard a lot of anti-semitic comments.

This is probably due to the idea that blames the Jews for creating communism.
Most people with ultraconservative ideas (almost fascists) believe that cionism
and communism is essentially the same.

>Andras also asks:
>
>>As for being 'jewed' this is an English expression -- how does
>>it go in Hungarian?

As far as I know, and my Hungarian should be appropriate, there is no
such expression in this context.

Janos

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