Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: *** HUNGARY *** #465 (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: millcentenial articles (mind)  77 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: AMOSZ (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
4 Honor the memory (October 25, 1956) (mind)  189 sor     (cikkei)
5 Lakast keresek Veszpremben / looking for an apartment i (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: millcentenial articles (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
7 AND Books ,Re: AMOSZ (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
8 HUNGARY Dear Janos : (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: your mail- Borderline dispute (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Lakast keresek Veszpremben / looking for an apartme (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
11 Arrested Slovaks (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
12 AMOSZ continued (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
13 Bela's recollections of 1956 (mind)  41 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Racism, what is it? (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
15 HUNGARY hobortos dolgok (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
16 AMOSZ continued (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: *** HUNGARY *** #465 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

+ - Re: millcentenial articles (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Peter I. Hidas ) wrote:
: >        I would like to express my opinion here about 896 AD. In my opinion
: >        ( and probably in a few others' ) this was the _second_
: >        . I maintain that the _first_ one was when the Huns came from the
: >        East in the V. century.In my opinion we should not separate Huns and
: >        Hungarians as different groups.The connection between the two of
: >        course only exist(ed) in 'legends' only as there is no written (?)
: >        proof of it.We should look at Attila as the first 'honfoglalo',
: >        a brilliant leader ( as recently it was expressed in 2 book(lets)
: >        by an american author ). He _really_ conquered East & West unlike
: >        Alexander the Great,Napoleon,Hitler,Stalin,etc... . I don't want
: >        to into this now but we really should shake off the history written
: >        and _distorted_ by communist ( and leftist ) 'historians' all over
: >        the world.When Arpad came in 896 AD they didn't just miraculously
: >        'find' the Carpathian base , they followed an oral history of their
: >        forebears.I repeat again as 1996 approaches that we should really
: >        face the facts about this.There is nothing to be ashamed about the
: >        Huns.I hope some people will understand this.

: >
: Arpad entered  the Carpathian basin   in late 895.  The Conquest was a
: two-prong one. Some of the tribes, led by Arpad, crossed the Carpathian at
: the North-East, other tribes took Transylvania. Certain historian claim
: that there were already Hungarians in the area but they do not claim that
: they were there when the Huns were in the area in the 5th century. Huns and
: Hungarians were not related. They lived thousands of miles apart at the
: time. The Hunor and Magor story is nothing but a historical fiction as was
: admitted by historian of the Horthy regime (and not the communists). There
: is no respectable historian today who subscribe to the Hun-Hungarian
: connection.

: Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

        Thank you for answering me Mr. Hidas, but I have to disagree a bit.
        I do not maintain that there were Huns left in the Carpathian basin
        after they did retreat and we could 'claim' another few hundred
        years in Europe.What I try to say is that in those days there were
        no country borders and nomadic people mixed quite a lot.In my opinion
        the defeated Huns were going back to the East met up with other
        tribes coming westward ( these included probably 'hungarians' plus
        others).After quite a few generations living together the persistent
        legends about a rich,western plain clearly figured in the minds of
        these tribes who lived off the grassy plains.I am bit sceptical
        about 'western' historians who always put down everyone else and
        their history. People Europe always try to maintain that civilisation
        did not exist elsewhere before the Greeks,etc.Well the East have a
        much longer civilised history --> China,etc... Many things came from
        the East which now attributed to more recent, 'civilised' people.
        Back to the hungarians. The westward 'quest' always existed as tribes
        getting populous needed territory.I don't want point out the one big
        push in this century by our 'beloved brothers/comrades'.
        Recently japanese scientists examined blood/DNA to see connections
        between nations and it turned out ( by tracking some genetic feature
        I seem to recall which transmitted by parents and not changing,
        sorry I don't have this before me; others probably have seen this )
        that Hungarians have their closest relatives in the Far East.
        Also looking at some old folk in current Hungary ( jaszok/kunok )
        clearly shows oriental features.
        Well to cut it short, I don't want to start an argument, these are
        my private opinions and I do not claim to be an expert. I am only
        a Hungarian living nowadays in a western country.I just would like
        to put things right in a world where everyday history is lost and/or
        distorted ( in my opinion ).'Political correctness' doesn't allow
        truth expressed , truth is frequently ugly and not always fit into
        the plans of people who want a 'sanitised' society. Anyone who read
        1984 by George Orwell now should be horrified to see how right he
        was, what we already have is Newspeak and Doublespeak.
        I don't want to think what will come in the future, not pretty I'll
        hazard to guess.        Thank you for reading.

                                Csaba  Haranagozo
+ - Re: AMOSZ (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

AMOSZ has been active for 39+ yrs to create a free magyar environment. It's
principle has been guided by inclusion, not exclusion, of all hungarians.
Sometimes it's leadership are assholes, but as an organization it pleads for
support from it's immigre members. Lick & stamp envelopes to play in the U.S.
lobby games. Fly here-n-there to benefit dinners. Fight the complacent WmPenn,
MRE, MSzHE attitudes of slash-n-burn emmigre recruitment. Better yet, give up
to a dry, dying place where oldsters wait around for SS checks.
Of course we cando better, like sue each other. Or attend commemorative
dinners with keynote speakers like Otto or one of the HFF heroes (Pongratz,
Liptak, Gereben, etc.), or dig back to DP's (like Wass, Eszterhas, Szathmary),
or back further (like Beky, Nagy). It all spells out the same: devisive.
Who gives a rats ass? Some hungarians care about their future, others don't.
We do NOT have the luxury of chosing our comrades. They are here now. They
support our collective ideals creating & maintaining our culture or they do
not. If AMOSZ meets this criteria, support it.. if not leave it alone to do
it's best (or join in to change its direction). Don't you get it? Magyar
culture is going, going, gone...
i could go on forever on this theme, but i'll remain breif: Let it alone.
+ - Honor the memory (October 25, 1956) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

NOTE: This is the 5th segment of a 15 part memoir of a 20 year old student in
Budapest. The day described in this segment is October 25, 1956. The purpose
of this writing is to describe the lives of (and pay tribute to) two martyrs
of the Revolution. They are: Istvan Angyal and Janos Danner, whom I met
during those days. As you will read later, Janos was asassinated and Istvan
was hanged. At the end of this series, I will try to make the complete
material (the 15 segments together amount to about 325,000 bits) available to
anybody who asks for it, assuming, that in the meantime I will learn, how to
copy such bulk from wpwin60 to AOL. Bela Liptak

In the morning, the radio announces that Ern  Ger  is no longer the Secretary
of the Communist Party and that Imre Nagy has taken over as prime minister.
At breakfast, Aptyi explains:  The Russians are in a difficult spot; if they
crush us, they can no longer claim to be an anti-colonial power, if they
don't, they show weakness. Therefore, you must make it easy for them to
withdraw. You must reassure them, that the new Hungary will be a neutral and
friendly neighbor.  - he is talking to me, like if I was the new government.
      At this point Memi interjects:  Couldn't somebody else reassure the
Russians, instead of our Vcsi?   But we, the students started it, we have a
responsibility to lead!  - I interject.   And where would you lead, if they
let you?  - asks Piter.  Well, we certainly do not want to exchange the
Communist zoo for a Capitalist jungle. We certainly don't want to turn back
history. We don't want revenge, but we do want justice. As a minimum, we want
repentance from the traitors and we want the courts to decide the fate of
those who's hands are bloody. We are against state ownership, because it
breeds corruption. We want to return the homes, land and small businesses to
their rightful owners. We favor employee ownership of industry, where the
workers want that, but if they do not, we favor privatization. We want
opportunity for the talented, but we also want protection and dignity for the
poor. And most of all, we want our new society to be free and democratic.
 Now, there is silence in the kitchen, Memi blows her nose, Aptyi is clearing
his throat and we slip our sandwiches into our pockets, as it is time to go.
        Because of the strike, there are no trains, the only way to get to
Budapest is by hitchhiking. Piter decides to come with me.  Andris, at 16, is
too young to join us. As we wait on the side of the road, a horse-drawn lorry
passes by. The driver is collecting food for the people of Budapest. The
lorry is in front of the Rapavy's house.  No way! It is against the religion
of Uncle Jsska to freely give anything to anybody!  - I say jokingly, as
Jszsef Rapavy is known to be as miserly as only a farmer can be. A moment
later I see Mr. Rapavy carrying a gargantuan sack of potatoes on his broad
shoulders. My mouth must have fallen open, because he gives me an angry look,
runs back into the house an reappears with a slab of bacon.  There!  - he
says triumphantly.  This is my fight too, you know!
        Finally, a truck slows down and we climb up. All the traffic is into
the city and all the trucks are loaded with young people. There is little
question why they are coming. The fighting in Budapest has subsided, but we
are still far from full victory. There still are some AVH pockets and the
Russian tanks are still stationed at major intersections. Therefore
volunteers are still needed to secure our victory.
     This is  Bloody Thursday,  the 25th of October.
     We get off the truck at the Eastern Railroad Station, because Piter
wants to go on to the agricultural University of Keszthely. After parting
company with him, I walk through Baross Square. It is swarming with armed
young people. I make a detour on my way to the Technical University to check
on Agnes. Gabor, her brother, is home, she is down at lake Balaton. Gabor
tells me that the regular police has joined the revolution, the Radio been
captured, the Kilian Barracks, now under General Maliter, have repulsed the
Russian tanks and a major demonstration planned at around today, in front of
the Parliament.
     In front of the Emke restaurant, near the National Theater, dozens of
people are swarming over the fallen caracas of Stalin's statue. They use
welding torches, hammers and a variety of saws, to chip off pieces of the
fallen tyrant. Behind the statue, on the Grand Boulevard, there are the
remains of burned out Russian tanks.
     As I walk on Raksczi Street, I notice that most of the store windows
have bullet holes, some have no glass at all. Yet the goods seem to be
untouched. On one window, I see a small, handwritten note:  Protect the honor
of the Revolution! Show the World that we fight for FREEDOM, not to steal
cameras!  I stand and stare at the sign for a long time, I feel proud of my
people: In the windowless display case, the cameras are untouched.
       As I walk toward Museum Boulevard, I see a small, freckled teenager
with black- ringed eyes and a big rifle. He stands in front of a watch store.
 Are you guarding them?  - I point at the watches behind the broken window.
He first looks me in the eyes, then at my tri-colored arm band and says:  You
should know that guards are not needed here. We took up arms to gain our
freedom, not to steal watches! Besides, now, all of this is ours anyway! Not
just the watches, but this wreck of a house, this street, this devastated
city, everything. You don't steal what is yours, you don't steal from your
brothers, from your family! This store belongs to my family: this is a
Hungarian store!  While talking, he does not look me in the eyes, but stares
at the ground, which is good, it gives me a chance to wipe my eyes.
      A few houses down the street, I see a horse drawn lorry. People are
lined up, waiting, while the driver is filling their baskets and shopping
bags with potatoes. He is like any street vendor, except that there is no
payment, the distribution is free and anonymous.
       At the corner, the body of a young man is lying on the pavement. He is
on his back. His face is white, relaxed, almost happy. His body is covered by
flowers. He has no gun: somebody felt, that he no longer needed one. He is
the first corpse I have seen from such close proximity. I stand there a long
time. I wonder if my face would be such a proud, such a reassuring sight, if
my time came.
      There is a crowd at the Astoria restaurant, on the corner of Kossuth
Street and Museum Boulevard. They are surrounding some Russian tanks. The
tank hatches are open, the commander has climbed out and is talking with the
people in the crowd. He has obviously been stationed in Hungary for some
time, because he speaks some Hungarian:  Russian people, Hungarian people,
friends people.  - he says. There is a rose in the barrel of his cannon, a
Hungarian flag flutters over his tank.
       (Later I learn, that his unit followed the demonstrators to the
Parliament and when the AVH opened fire on the marchers, his tanks opened
fire on the AVH. Some 500 unarmed Hungarians died that day, in front of the
Parliament. The demonstrators went there, to demand the withdrawal of the
Russian tanks. They also expected to greet Imre Nagy, their new prime
minister, who at Communist Party Headquarters, was still a virtual prisoner
of the Hungarian secret police, the AVH.)
      On the next corner I see the burned out Ady Movie Theater. The Russian
tank commander on this corner was not as friendly as the one on the Rakoczi
Street corner. When the firefighters came to put out a fire in the burning
movie house, he fired at the trucks of the firefighters. Now both the
building and the trucks are smoldering.  Madness!  - I mumble to myself,
      On Kossuth Street I see a large wooden box. It was placed there by the
Writers Union. A sign above the crate reads:  Please give to the casualties
of the Revolution!  The container is full of paper money. A dazed, elderly
women stands in front of it, her eyes are red, she can barely stand. She is
picking up some red, 100 Forint bills. Now I see, that instead of taking out
more, she is putting some back.  It does not need to be oak, he will be happy
in pine.  - she says to herself. I just stand there, I think of Memi, I reach
into my pocket and take out my 140 Forints. I drop the red 100 and one of the
blue 20s into the box. I keep 20 Forints, just in case Agnes comes back from
the lake and she still wants to see the  Women of Selistye.  The box is
unguarded, there must be a barrel of money in it.
       When I arrive at the university, the doors are open, the gates are
unguarded, the buildings are empty. Only Jancsi Danner and Pali Zador are in
the headquarters office of the newly formed MEFESZ. Previously, this was the
office of the Communist party, this was the gathering place of the DISZ
penguins. Now, the tables are covered by copies of our demands and
communiques. Pali is writing an article for the Future Engineer, Jancsi is on
the phone:
       Yes, we will fully cooperate with the police. Yes, we will organize
regular patrols throughout the XIth district.  - he says.
       Who was that?  - I ask, when he puts down the phone.
       Sandor Kopacsi, the chief of police.
      Now the phone rings in the inner office. I pick it up. I can tell, that
it is a long distance call, because the connection is bad, barely audible:
       I am calling from the MEFESZ office of the University of Forestry and
Mining in Sopron. I would like to reach the MEFESZ headquarters of the
Technical University.  - says the distant voice.
       You did  - I reply.
       So, what do we do next?  - he asks.
       The general strike continues until the Russians leave. You should
disarm the AVH, organize an armed student battalion, organize joint patrols
with the police, use the radio to keep the public informed, and stay in
       We will do that.  - says the voice and hangs up.
The telephone kept ringing all afternoon. Around five, Kati Sz ke and Sandor
Varga arrived. Then came the two drivers, Imre Majoross and Gyurka Vereczkey.
They reported that the university garage is intact, the cars are safe. In the
evening we decided to invite Colonel Marian from the Military Department to
settle in the inner room of our left side office. He accepted.
      During the night we talked, and talked, and talked some more. By the
time I went to sleep, Colonel Marian became Pista (the nickname for Istvan),
and we were all on a first name basis (which in Hungary, under normal
circumstances, might take decades). We felt like brothers and sisters. It was
a warm, marvelous feeling. We felt such love and respect, such trust and
admiration, as I did not experience before. The bond we had, was based on
more than our willingness to give our lives for Hungary's liberation. We were
also convinced, that we are changing the world, and that it will be a happier
place, when we are done.
      During the night, I learned a lot about Pista and Jancsi. Pista was a
talented and ambitious young Jewish officer from Transylvania, a region of
Hungary, which now belongs to Romania. He joined the Communist Party, because
of his strong sense of social justice. Now, in his early 30's, he found
himself at a road-junction, he had to make a choice, and he chose his
country. It was not an easy decision. He has a family and he knows how Moscow
treats her traitors.
      Jancsi is 27, he grew up in Szeged, son of a rich shopkeeper. He was
placed under police surveillance, when he organized demonstrations against
the outlawing of the teaching of religion in the schools. He is a well
organized and level headed person, but also a romantic hero. He is both, a
refined cosmopolitan and a lover of ancient Hungarian folk culture.  There is
a lot in how one holds a tea cup  - he says,  yet social order is more than
that, and christianity is more than social order.
      He talks a lot about historic roles.  The role is more than the
individual playing it, the role is given, the actor is interchangeable! Not
you, your role determines destiny, you can not be late for meeting your fate!
 Jacsi is old for his age, Jancsi is too serious for a 27 year old. Only his
bride, Gabriella understands him fully. Her eyes sparkle whenever she looks
at him.
      At the invitation of a medical student, Ili Tsth, I slept on a narrow
leather bed, in the medical emergency room, in the basement of the
university. The bed could not have been less comfortable. It was one of those
narrow contraptions on wheels, which are used to roll the patients into the
operating room. For me, it was way too short, the leather sloped to the
center, my head rested on it's aluminum frame, yet I slept like a baby. I was
just so happy!
+ - Lakast keresek Veszpremben / looking for an apartment i (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I sent in the following posting last week to both Hungary and Mosaik,  however
received a somewhat confusing response from the "publisher".   The response
indicated that my posting was interpreted as a duplicate posting, therefore,
rejected.  I presume by the response that it was posted to neither list.    I
understand that the two lists are in fact separate, and not duplicates.
Furthermore, this posting has not previously been submitted to either list.  I
therefore, respectfully request your posting this message to Hungary:

Text of message:

Januarban jovok Veszpremi egyetemhez dolgozni a doctoratus kutatasan.  Keresek
egy butorozot, egy haloszobas lakast az egyetem koselsegbe, ot vagy hat honapig
megkozelitoen 15 januar tol.  Hogy ha ismered valamien lakast, vagy hogy ha van
javaslat hogy lehetne innenrol talalni es berelni, kerem soljal.  Vagy valaszal
ezen a poston, vagy kuldjel:  
Koszonom a segitseget
Solymossy Imre

I will be working on my Ph.D. research at the Vesprem University for five or si
months beginning in January.  I am seeking a small, one bedroom, furnished
apartment close to the University.  If you know of an apartment, or have
suggestions as to how I might locate and rent an apartment prior to my travels,
please advise me.  Please either post your response to this newsletter, or send
Thank you for your assistance.
Emeric Solymossy
+ - Re: millcentenial articles (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>        I do not maintain that there were Huns left in the Carpathian basin
>        after they did retreat and we could 'claim' another few hundred
>        years in Europe.What I try to say is that in those days there were
>        no country borders and nomadic people mixed quite a lot.In my opini=
>        the defeated Huns were going back to the East met up with other
>        tribes coming westward ( these included probably 'hungarians' plus
>        others).After quite a few generations living together the persisten=
>        legends about a rich,western plain clearly figured in the minds of
>        these tribes who lived off the grassy plains.
>        that Hungarians have their closest relatives in the Far East.
>        Also looking at some old folk in current Hungary ( jaszok/kunok )
>        clearly shows oriental features.
>                                Csaba  Haranagozo

Dear Csaba,
The remnants of the Huns did meet, that is lived not too far from each
other near the Volga River before
the Hungarians began to drift westword but there is no evidence to mixing,
living together etc.
The Yazyks and the Cumans were Turkic peoples who settled in Hungary.
Eventually they became Hungarians.
Peter I. Hidas, Dawson College and McGill University

Bartha, Antal.  Hungarian Society in the 9th and 10th Centuries.  Budapest
: Akademiai Kiado, 1975.

=46odor, Istv=E1n. In Search of a New Homeland; The Prehistory of the Hungar=
People and the Conquest. Budapest: Corvina, 1975.

Sinor Denis, "the Earliest Period of Hungarian Turkic Relations," Hungarian
History -  World History.  ed. Gyorgy Ranki. Budapest: Akademiai Kiado,
1984. 1-12.

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

+ - AND Books ,Re: AMOSZ (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Sir or Madame,

You are entitled to express your opinion.  It is all right to

However, when you are talking about the disappearance of culture, you
should first examine your own language.  When you champion any cause,
-regardless of the substance of your message,- people will listen to you
more if you take care to avoid foul language.

BTW, this kind of language on THIS forum shows LACK of culture.  Let's leave
its use to MOKA, where, in a given context, it might be appropriate.

Thank you for your time.

Martha S. Bihari
+ - HUNGARY Dear Janos : (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Well, no need for it because the book [1] IS out in English with the title I
  I am glad it is out in English! The discussion about the "bikkfa"
  translation is secondary important, that was no more for me than a
  easy speach in a cafetaria.
References :
1.: Sisa : A nation without boundaries

*.: 1.:By the way : The scale for me about the meanings/translations

      |  idiot, stupid    hulye, idiota
      |                   ostoba
      |                   buta
      |  silly            butus, butacska
    2.: The translation about hatar/hatarvonal/border/boundary/bordeline
        is impressive (what you wrote), but I am not convinced.
        But, not important anyway.
+ - Re: your mail- Borderline dispute (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>     2.: The translation about hatar/hatarvonal/border/boundary/bordeline
>         is impressive (what you wrote), but I am not convinced.
>         But, not important anyway.

RE: the debate of hatar/hatarvoanl, the geographers i was with in Pecs
made a clear distinction between the two. I say this only because my
advisor worked on boundaries (hatarok), not hatarvonalok. I side with
Pannon ur.

Darren Purcell
+ - Re: Lakast keresek Veszpremben / looking for an apartme (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Emeric wrote:

>I sent in the following posting last week to both Hungary and Mosaik,  however
>received a somewhat confusing response from the "publisher".   The response

No wonder.  It might be a good idea to spend some time to familiarize
yourself about what the different articles on news groups are before
posting a followup message to them.  Had you done that, it should be
obvious that MOSAIC is not meant to receive replies; it's simple a
collection of news item published by some good samaritans and not a
forum for personal ads.

Joe Pannon
+ - Arrested Slovaks (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Kristyan asks:

>But anyway, it would be interesting to know why Benes did this?

Meaning, to ask the French police to arrest Jehlicka and Hlinka. Simple! The
Czechs had no intention of giving autonomy to the Slovaks in the new
Czechoslovakia. Benes also claimed that they were Hungarian agents. Hlinka
was certainly not a Hungarian agent, but Jehlicka was pro-Hungarian and was
working toward the reunification of Upper Hungary with Hungary proper. In
fact, after he was released from prison in France he returned not to
Czechoslovakia but to Hungary.

Eva Balogh
+ - AMOSZ continued (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Back to AMOSZ again. Barna says:

>Why not just say: AMOSZ made a mistake supporting Erdey,

Why not, indeed. It made a mistake. The question, of course, is why does the
largest Hungarian emigre organization in the United States support an
extremist group whose followers make up only a very small fraction (less than
2%) of the Hungarian electorate.

Eva Balogh
+ - Bela's recollections of 1956 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I, too, have been enjoying Bela's reminiscences, especially since while he
participating in meetings at the engineering school, I was doing the same at
the ELTE. The careful reader may wonder why the engineering students were
marching on the Buda side and all the other schools on the Pest side. The
reason was that we couldn't agree about the nature of the demonstration. We
wanted to have a demonstration where we carry placards and shout slogans; the
engineers wanted a silent demonstration. We on the Pest side, actually saw
them marching along the bank of the Danube while we were still waiting at the
statue of Petofi, waiting for our formations. It was a very dignified sight.

However, the two groups met at the statue of Bem, and I am wondering whether
Bela remember or not the army barracks right across from the statue. The
soldiers were looking on, hanging out from the windows. The
crowd began to chant: "Take off the gimnastiorkas," that is, the Russian-type
peasant blouses Soviet soldiers wore and which had to be adopted, of course,
by the Hungarian army in slavish imitation. They did take off their shirts
and we went wild!

In my recollection the slogan "Ruszkik haza," were uttered a great deal
earlier. The first time I heard it was on
the Margaret Bridge, where the crowd was so thick that our careful formations
no longer could be maintained. The students' slogan was: "Minden orszag
katonaja, menjen sajat hazajaba!" A bit of a roundabout way of saying to the
Russians to leave. The ordinary man of the street changed that to "Ruszkik
haza!" a much shorter and effective way of saying the same.

As for Imre Nagy's speech there are a couple of additions. The crowd wouldn't
move until the people inside of the parliament produced Imre Nagy. They tried
all sorts of delaying tactics, including the turning off all the street
lights (as Bela himself mentions it), but to no avail. The crowd remained.
Eventually, they produced Imre
Nagy, who did come out on one of the balconies and indeed began his speech,
saying: "Comrades!" The crowd yelled, "No more comrades!" Then he said, "My
dear Hungarian brethren!" The crowd answered: "That's better!" Imre Nagy
basically told us to go home and he promised that the next day he would try
to negotiate about our demands. It was an amazing thing: the crowd which
refused to move for hours, listened to him and the square was empty within
half an hour!

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Racism, what is it? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

(Re: Racism, what is it?)

        Dear Andras,

        as a matter of fact, sometimes I LOVE to be disappointed :-) !
Since sociology, politics is not my trade, I can actually afford being happy
if some of my gloomy predictions prove to be wrong.  --  Thanks for your
article, which is hard to attack from any side, since it is fairly abstract.
But watch out, when you get just slightly more specific!
>The emphasis is on deeds not on words.
        I wholeheartedly agree, not only in case of racism, but for other
issues as well.  The emphasis should be on deeds, not on words.  But many
(or most) of these fights are nowadays fought not only *with* words, but also
*about* words.
        Of course replacing most of the physical killing with character
killing is a HUGE step forward.  No irony here.  Am I happier than I would
have been 40-50 years ago?  Yes.  Am I happy?  NO.

        Tamas Toth
+ - HUNGARY hobortos dolgok (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

*.: Boys and girls !!!
    You are bombing (more exactly electric shocking since these are emails)
    me with Webstering and "Ertelmezo Szotaring"
    about the correspondence between the worlds : buta,hulye v.s
    stupid, silly.
    For example from the land of kanguroos
>"Stupid" and "dumb" are usually used in English where Hungarians would
>say "buta" or "hulye"
    Watch the movie (available in video stores) "Dumb and dumber".
    How would you translate ? "Hulye es hulyebb" - I guess. I would
    translate : "A ket bolondos", "A ket hobortos", etc.
    Does not matter! Imagine that slovak boys about a quarter of century ago.
    I was in a car (Mockbu) and that boy was shouting to me "Buta magyar".
    I was not hurt by the world "buta" but by the motivation : Obviously
    he hated me... Why ? (Benes! Yes! He was STUPID!!!)
+ - AMOSZ continued (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Thanks Eva, your last version is perfect. No sarcastic comments,
no generalizations, just YOUR opion.

I hope somebody from AMOSZ will answer your question about the motieves
of their actions. I guess, they do what they think the best for Hungary.
As you know we here in Canada have nothing to do with the AMOSZ, we have
the KMSZ with similar functions and objectives.

Barna Bozoki