Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 1
Copyright (C) HIX
1994-07-01
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
		
HIX ujdonsag: HUNGARY
------------- =======

Kedves Olvasok!

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a HUNGARY nevu ujsagban, amely a HIX ujsagok tobbsegehez hasonloan
naponta egyszer jelenik meg.

Fontos: a Hungary Discussion List ANGOL NYELVU lista!!!
                                  ............

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*
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*  about Hungary and matters Hungarian.

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Jozsi. /HIX/
1 Re: The liberal center -- where is it? (mind)  43 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Impartiality of the media (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
3 CERRO (mind)  77 sor     (cikkei)
4 searching for data (mind)  49 sor     (cikkei)
5 HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Good book. (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: The liberal center -- where is it? (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Impartiality of the media (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Impartiality of the media (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Hungarian films (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
11 Horthy era "color" (mind)  57 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Hungarian films (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
13 Ich, Hilbig - for Mr. Walsh (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Ich, Hilbig - for Mr. Walsh (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: The liberal center -- where is it? (mind)  69 sor     (cikkei)
16 MKP membership, 1945-48 (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
17 liberalism, what is it? (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: liberalism, what is it? (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: liberalism, what is it? (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: liberalism, what is it? (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
21 Help Wanted! Magyar C programmers please! (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: The liberal center -- where is it? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

JELIKO writes:
> Hmmm, is it implied, that anyone away from Stalin is immediately on the right
?
No. Diggins states a fact about the composition of National Review's board,
not a fact about non-Stalinists. Joe would no doubt say left-wingers who became
disgusted by Stalin "flocked" to the board of National Review...

> What was the opinion of the American "liberals" who did not come from
> Stalin gift wrapped? They mostly praised the percieved achievements of
> communism and were unwilling to see the totalitarian side. Just read the
> "wonderful" reports after visits to Russia.
You seem to be mistaking liberals for left-wingers. FDR was a liberal,
didn't come from Stalin gift-wrapped and doesn't come across as a great
praiser of the achievements of communism.

> What was the exact "liberal ideology"?
Remember when this wasn't a dirty word? Take FDR, he is as good a
representative as any.

> It was not the prevention of revolution that should have been a criticism,
> but the blatant swalloing of the party line. There were no revolutions in
> Eastern Europe.
It's the impending communist revolution in the US Diggins is talking about:
as newly converted anti-communists these people were convinced that this was
clear and present danger.

> According to whom is the American way of life equatable to liberal
> consensus. Most liberals are contemtous of the masses. They are convinced
> that they know it better and everybody else should confirm to their
> beliefs, otherwise they are ignorant right wingers, extremists, pick your
> daily or weekly slogan.
Again you are mistaking liberals for extreme left-wingers. The whole
"vanguard" business, with the contempt for the masses it implies, is a
classical communist bit. "To know better" i.e. to use force to impose your
own will, is a classical extremist strategem -- liberals know better than
trying to make people happy against their will.          ^^^^^^^^^^^

As for "according to whom", the US political process tends to stay rather
close to the liberal center -- perhaps 50% of republicans and 50% of
democrats are liberal at any given time. If you want to see some good
liberal thinking, bordering on libertarianism, check out the Bill of Rights.

Andra1s Kornai
+ - Re: Impartiality of the media (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> >
> >history teaching
> >and the press in general claims to be neutral in the West, and in fact rep-
> >resents the establishment, the conservative/liberal and anti-change view.
>
> This is new to me. I would like to see a few examples of this
> conservative/liberal, anti-change and pro-establishment journalism in the
> west. Or history, for that matter. Eva Balogh

The one upset me most memorably was in the early eighties when The Guar-
dian failed to mention the gathering of 2000+ Labour Party Young Socialists
for a summer conference camp, but had 3 paragraphs of 33 Young Liberals
(also a national conference). I will supply concrete data as time
permits. (The Guardian is a "quality" daily round here, not particularily
conservative)
Also in the seventies I found fascinating (school) history books where
the "Russians" had minimal role if any in beating the Germans,
and in Australia (seventies) most kids I knew had the impression
that ("Russia") in fact  was a German ally all the way... Eva Durant
+ - CERRO (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

For all who are interested in regional research and especially in the newly
re-emerging region of "Central Europe" we want to provide an short overview
about


     * "The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO)"*
     *                                                              *
     * ********* electronic archive and discussion forum ********** *

* What is the intention of Cerro?

It is the intention of CERRO to stimulate and support regional research in
and about "Central Europe" and to enhance contacts and discussion between
researchers and scholars interested in these areas. CERRO includes a broad
range of related disciplines: regional science, economic geography,
regional and urban planning, environmental economics, regional sociology,
policy analysis, regional political economy and institutions, etc.

CERRO is a joint initiative of

     * University of Economics and Business Administration, Vienna, Austria
     * Slovak Adademy of Sciences, Bratislava, Slovakia
     * University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
       Chapel Hill, NC, U.S.A.

* The CERRO discussion forum  )

The discussion forum provides cost-free oportunities for worldwide
discussion of topics related to REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT IN CENTRAL EUROPE and
currently has over 400 subscribers.

* The CERRO electronic archive

The CERRO archive stores information that may be of interest to CERRO
subscribers and other people interested in the development of Central
Europe. Here are some examples:

        * files describing CERRO and CERRO services;
        * New: CERROs statistical information service about Central Europe
        * Electronic Resources about Eastern Europe
        * New: Post Soviet Study Resources on the Internet
        * New: The Regional Environmental Center Bulletin
        * Papers
        * Organizations
        * Individuals
        * Conferences
        * East european studies directory
        * RFE/RL Daily News, Central & Eastern Europe
        * Hungarian Electronic Stocks & Comodities
        * International Marketing Insights, Central & Eastern Europe

The CERRO archive can be accessed through anonymous FTP or through GOPHER
(GOPHER is the easier way).

GOPHER: Go to the main Gopher of the University of Economics and Business
Administration in Vienna, Austria (direct access:"gopher.wu-wien.ac.at",
Port 70; indirect access: Europe, Austria, University of Economics ..., WU-
Informationsdienste, VIENNA INFORMATION SERVICE IN REGIONAL SCIENCES,
CERRO).

FTP: Open an FTP-connection to "ftp.wu-wien.ac.at" and login as user
"anonymous". Type your e-mail address as password. Change to directory
"pub/cerro".

It is important to point out, that some services are under construction.
That means on the one side, that more and more data will become available
(especially in the statistical information system) in the next weeks. On
the other side, if you have any suggestions or data which may be of
interest for CERRO, please let us know.
*********************************************************************
*  Guenther Rieder, Interdisciplinary Institute for Urban and       *
*  Regional Studies, University of Economics and Business           *
*  Administration, Vienna, Austria                                  *
*  Tel: 31336/4839                                                  *
*  Fax: 31336/705                                                   *
*  e-mail:                                 *
*********************************************************************
+ - searching for data (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

For our new

      "CERROs statistical information service about Central Europe"

we would need statistical data for Hungary. If you have demographic,
economic or political data in electronic form, please let us know. We will
tell you how to send the data to the Cerro-archive.

The following data is already available:

      * Hungary:        - Election results

      * Slovakia:       - Map of Slovakia
                        - Employment Structure by Sector and Region
                        - Development of the Regional Labour Market
                        - Regional Structure of Foreign Investment
                        - Annual Economic, Energy and Demographic Data for
                          Slovakia, 87 - 91

      * Czech Republic: - Map of Czech Republic
                        - Population, Pollution Area and Telephones
                        - Industry
                        - Wages and Prices
                        - Tourism
                        - Agriculture
                        - Private Enterprises
                        - Labour Market
                        - Production, Employment and Exports
                        - Foreign Trade of the Czech Republic
                        - Industrial Sales and Exports

      * Relations between Central European Countries:

                        - Supplies from the Czech Republic to Slovakia
                        - Supplies from Slovakia to the Czech Republic


      * Austria:

                        - general data for districts
                        - results of the EU-referendum
*********************************************************************
*  Guenther Rieder, Interdisciplinary Institute for Urban and       *
*  Regional Studies, University of Economics and Business           *
*  Administration, Vienna, Austria                                  *
*  Tel: 31336/4839                                                  *
*  Fax: 31336/705                                                   *
*  e-mail:                                 *
*********************************************************************
+ - HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Let  me  add one more source to Bela's list of works on Hungarian
          genealogy:  Handy  Guide  to  Hungarian Genealogical Records,  by
          Jared H. Suess (Logan, Utah (P.O. Box 368, Logan 84321):  Everton
          Publishers, 1980.  100 p.                            Ken
          )
+ - Re: Good book. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Is it available in the U.S.?

bill walsh
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
From: Hungarian Discussion List on Wed, Jun 29, 1994 4:04 PM
Subject: Good book.

There is a good book published in German about issues relating to events in
the communist regime.
Title: "Ich"
Author: Wolgang Hilbig
Publisher: S. Fisher, Frankfurt a M.
Year 1993.
The story is about an agent code named Cambert near the end of the regime
in E. Germany. I would highly recommend to those reading German. To my
knowledge it was not translated to English.
Regards,Jeliko.
+ - Re: The liberal center -- where is it? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I don't want to get into flame-match (I'll leave that to some of the more
emphatically political folks), but I'm curious about a couple statements.

>own will, is a classical extremist strategem -- liberals know better than
>trying to make people happy against their will.          ^^^^^^^^^^^

Really?  Clinton said (in the context of health care) that the American
people voted him in for change but were unwilling to do the hard work
demanded of them.  Yet he persists in pushing his program.  Seems like a
prima facie example of trying "to make people happy" (or increase the role of
the state) "against their will."

>> What was the exact "liberal ideology"?
>Remember when this wasn't a dirty word? Take FDR, he is as good a
>representative as any.
..
>democrats are liberal at any given time. If you want to see some good
>liberal thinking, bordering on libertarianism, check out the Bill of Rights.

What am I missing here?  How are FDR (who incontrovertibly expanded the
federal state a great deal) and the Bill of Rights (which, as you say,
borders on libertarianism) on the same page?  I think on the one hand, you've
got a statist ideology and on the other a libertarian.  Or is liberalism
statist libertarianism?  Or libertarian statism?  Or am I totally off?

Just curious,

bill walsh
+ - Re: Impartiality of the media (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>history teaching
>and the press in general claims to be neutral in the West, and in fact rep-
>resents the establishment, the conservative/liberal and anti-change view.

As an Islamic historian, let me refute this entirely:  the idea of objective
history is an unusual one.  In most countries of the Middle East, it's
referred to as "the American method" (which does the Germans, British, et
al., a disservice), and is considered very distinctive in that it's _not_
advocating a point of view (whether an official party-line, or a wild-eyed
revisionism).

The goal of objectivity doesn't guarantee results, but it's the only way to
approach the truth.  If you believe there's a truth out there to be
approached.  If you don't... what the hell!  Everything's politics!  You can
do anything, as long as you don't get caught (and even then, you can insist
that you're simply following your own subjective, morally equal path)!

bill walsh
+ - Re: Impartiality of the media (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In reply to your message of "Thu, 30 Jun 94 10: 34:31 +0800."
             >
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 08:24:51 -0700
From: 
+ - Re: Hungarian films (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Paul writes:
>
> >If you are, and available, look out for the cartoon series Magyar nepme-
> >sek (Hungarian Folktales), the quality, music, humour is brill for adults
>
> Where to find this?
>
> Paul
>
If you would like an NTSC copy you might try European Video Distributors,
"Best Hungarian Movies on Video". They have two cassettes of Magyar nepmesek
that are 45 minutes long and $30 each. They seem to have a wide selection of
films. They even have a documentary about the Horthy era using old newsreels,
just in case there's anyone on the list who's interested in that subject ;-).
You can ask for a catalog at:

    EVD
    2321 W. Olive Ave. Suite "C"
    Burbank, California 91506
    (818) 848-5902
    (800) 423-6752  - Orders only

Prices range from $30 to $60. Not exactly cheap but at least you don't have to
pay to convert them.

Steve
+ - Horthy era "color" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In reply to your message of "Fri, 24 Jun 94 08: 34:43 +1000."
             >
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 10:00:37 -0700
From: 

George Antony writes:
> Not particularly educated, a large enough portion of the population could be
> convinced that the dismemberment of the country is the root of all evil, and
> restitution is the solution.  This being the rallying cry of the political
> right, they attracted votes.  In that overheated nationalistic atmosphere
 issues
> such as rural tenure and general suffrage became secondary and one was easily
> branded a traitor for raising them and thus diverting attention from the
> nation's 'main agenda'.

I discussed the above with someone.  Here are a few school day remembrances:


        La Hongrie mutilese
        n'est plus un pays.
        La Hongrie anterieure
        etait un paradis.

That was a song used in French class.  (I apologize if I've butchered the
 French)

Naturally, a translation was available:

        Csonka Magyarorsza1g nem orsza1g,
        Nagymagyarorsza1g mennyorsza1g.


The schoolday started with this pledge

        Hiszek egy istenben,
        Hiszek egy haza1ban,
        Hiszek Magyarorsza1g felta1mada1sban



Then there is this partially remembered song:


        Horthy Miklos katona1ja vagyok,
        Nem kel ne1kem puska se golyo1,
        Ele1g lesz a puska pucolo1,
        <something>
        <something>
        Hogy ha jo2nn a Horthy Miklos katona1ja

(I think the something something described how the enemy would
be routed.)


I hope this was of some interest, and the Hungarian not too mangled.

--Greg
+ - Re: Hungarian films (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I would add three films to those suggested by others on the list--
"Feldobott Ko"," released in 1969, and about the dark side of the early period
of Communist rule in Hungary; "Naplo' Gyermekeimnek," from I think the early
'80's, about Hungarian Stalinist cadres and their mixed legacy to their off-
spring; and "We'll Never Die" (I think the Hungarian title was something like
"Sose Halunk Meg), about a loveable rogue and his straight-laced nephew during
the middle Communist period, released during 1993.

Be'la Ba'tkay
+ - Ich, Hilbig - for Mr. Walsh (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hilbig, Wolfgang, 1941-
  "Ich" : Roman / Wolfgang Hilbig. -- Frankfurt am Main : S. Fischer, c1993.
  377 p. ; 21 cm.

  ISBN 3100336178
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 -
NYUG (b-9115 DCF:a NNU)   CSUG (c-9115 CSt)   CTYA (c-9115 DCF:a CtY)
CUBG (c-9665 DCF:a CU)   DCLC (c-9550 DCF:a DLC)   IAUG (c-9115 DCF:a IaU)
MNUG (c-9665 DCF:a MnU)   NHDG (c-9115 DCF:a NhD)   NJPG (c-9115 DCF:a NjP)
NYCG (c-9115 DCF:a NNC)   NYCX (c-9115 DCF:a NIC)   NYPG (c-9665 DCF:a NN)
PASG (c-9665 DCF:a PSt)   RIBG (c-9115 DCF:a RPB)   VAUG (c-9665 DCF:a ViU)

New York Univ., Stanford,  Yale, UC Berkley, Libr. of Congress,
Un. of Iowa, U. of Minnesota, Dartmouth, Princeton, Columbia, Cornell,
New York Public, Penn State, Brown, Univ. of Virginia.

Istvan Kertesz
+ - Re: Ich, Hilbig - for Mr. Walsh (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Thank you very much, Mr. Kertesz!

bill walsh
+ - Re: The liberal center -- where is it? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Walsh Bill writes:
> What am I missing here?  How are FDR (who incontrovertibly expanded the
> federal state a great deal) and the Bill of Rights (which, as you say,
> borders on libertarianism) on the same page?  I think on the one hand, you've
> got a statist ideology and on the other a libertarian.  Or is liberalism
> statist libertarianism?  Or libertarian statism?  Or am I totally off?
Well, speaking strictly for myself (though I know it for a fact there are
other liberals on this list) liberalism is predicated on two somewhat
opposed values: (1) that the essence of liberty is to let people do what
they want "leben und leben lassen" and (2) that the state is an instrument
of Progress. People who tend to favor (1) over (2) are what you might call
conservative or right-wing liberals while people who tend to favor (2) over
(1) are progressive or left-wing liberals, but for somebody to be a liberal
it is not enough to have just (1), which would make you a libertarian, or
just (2), which would make you a socialist -- you have to accept both as
serious values and try to do your best to balance them when they are in
conflict (as all values tend to be from time to time).

I wrote Progress with a capital P to indicate that this is an old-fashioned
idea. I happen to like it, and I do think that giving people equal chances,
which involves redistribution of wealth (tax and spend, yes) is a big part
of what this Progress is all about. Others, curiously both New Age thinkers
and old-fashioned religious conservatives hate Progress in all shape or
form, be it compulsory elementary education, affirmative action, you name it.

> Really?  Clinton said (in the context of health care) that the American
> people voted him in for change but were unwilling to do the hard work
> demanded of them.  Yet he persists in pushing his program.  Seems like a
> prima facie example of trying "to make people happy" (or increase the role of
> the state) "against their will."
Yes, Clinton sees increasing the role of state as a means of delivering
better health care to the 35+ million underclass. Rostenskowski pointed out
the obvious that this will involve taxing and spending, i.e. money flowing
from the have-s to the have not-s. Whether Clinton has a popular mandate to
do this is debatable, but he sure as hell run on that ticket and won.

I personally have very serious doubts about the effectiveness of large
state-run organizations, and I'm not at all sure that the massive government
interference he plans is the best way to go. Following the lead of Milton
Friedman I believe subsidies should go directly to the poor (in cold cash,
not in kind -- if the guy wants to buy vodka on his food stamps its his
business) and frankly, let's just soak the rich, where "rich" includes
everybody who makes more than $20k a year. I expect to hear a lot of
righteous nonsense from those making a comfortable middle-class living with
$40+ per year that oh no, why should they subsidize the alcohol habits of
the poor, and I am somewhat open to suggestions about delivering certain
subsidies in kind (schooling, healthcare, etc.). But the basic idea that
significant amounts of money (broadly speaking, 20% to 50% tax rates) should
be taken away from the richer and given to the poorer (paying for
infrastructure/community services is included here, as it is just another
subsidy to the poor), well, I'm not particularly interested in political
philosophies that dispute that axiom.

I emphasized (2) since this was what you seem to be questioning (and who
would dare question the Bill of Rights?) and because it is currently more
important in the US context, where civil liberties are in general very well
guarded but community services (like health care) really lag behind more
Progressive parts of the world. In the Hungarian context (1) needs far more
emphasis, since the state is tremendously overdeveloped as a result of many
years of socialism (and the outgoing goverment did little in the past four
years to pare it down to tolerable size) while civil liberties are new,
fragile, and to some extent structurally abused (like the use of privacy
laws to protect government from criticism, the use of free press to maintain
a socialist old guard, the use of the rule of law to escape punishment of
past crimes, the use of freedom of assembly to form neonazi parties, etc.
etc.). In Hungary today the answer can only be more liberties and less
state, and this is exactly what the liberal parties are promoting.

Andra1s Kornai
+ - MKP membership, 1945-48 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

For some time not I have been planning to talk about the Hungarian Communist
party's first years after 1945. I bought a collection of documents titled
*Moszkva1nak jelentju2k . . .: Titkos dokumentumok, 1944-1948* [Reporting to
Moscow: Secret Documents, 1944-1948] (Budapest: Sza1zadve1g, 1994). I am not
finished with it (somehow reading documents in one sitting does not appeal to
me) but I read a few which might be of some interest to a wider audience.
This topic is especially appropriate now when we are discussing membership of
the Hungarian Communist party (hence MKP). We will most likely never know the
size of the Jewish contingent in the early days of the party since rostrums
surely didn't carry religious affiliation. It is possible that it was
relatively speaking large. However, here I want to talk about absolute
numbers.

In December 1944 Gero3 estimated that the membership was no more than 3,000.
A few months later they were talking about 30,000! Those of us who studied
Hungarian history after 1945 in the West learned about the so-called
crypto-communists, like Ferenc Erdei and Istvan Dobi. Well, the great
surprise for me was the following in one of the early documents. Gero3 to
Ra1kosi, 28 December 1944. Secret. "Erdei Ferenc ke1rte a pa1rtba valo1
felve1tele1t. A hata1rozatunk az, hogy felvesszu2k, de titokban tartjuk a
dolgot. Igyekszu2nk ezt a ke1rde1st leheto3leg me1g ma teto3 ala1 hozni, mert
az a ve1leme1nyu2nk, hogy addig kell u2tni a vasat, ami1g meleg" (p. 13).
[Ferenc Erdei asked to be admitted to the party. We decided to accept him but
to keep his membership secret. We will try to accomplish this today while the
iron is still hot.] Thus, Erdei was not a crypto-communist but a communist
and a built-in mole in the Peasant party. Dobi also joined while he was
member of the Smallholders party. These two illustrious gentlemen happened to
be Gentiles. Eva Balogh
+ - liberalism, what is it? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In reply to your message of "Thu, 30 Jun 94 14: 51:37 PDT."
             >
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 15:40:50 -0700
From: 

Andra1s Kornai writes:
> (1) that the essence of liberty is to let people do what
> they want

> (2) that the state is an instrument of Progress.
                     ^^
how about "can and ought to be" instead of "is", and

  (3)  that the market can and ought to be an instrument of Progress


--Greg
+ - Re: liberalism, what is it? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Greg Grose writes:
> > (2) that the state is an instrument of Progress.
>                      ~~
> how about "can and ought to be" instead of "is"
Can and ought to be -- yes. Both (1) and (2) are normative statements,
not descriptive ones: they describe the way things *should be* according
to a liberal vision not how they *are*.
>   (3)  that the market can and ought to be an instrument of Progress
And so can be Science, Law, Technology, Industry, and even Providence:-)

Seriously, (2) is really an answer to the question: What should the role of
the state be? as opposed to the question "How should Progress be fostered?
In libertarian political thought the answer would be: "the state should deal
with providing for the common defense, and the enforcement of private
contracts" (and perhaps law and order, though a true ultraminimalist would
tell you that this already follows from the enforcement of private contracts
to the extent necessary).

Let's face it, when it comes to taking money away from the rich and giving
it to the poor the market is no good, since it tends to operate in the other
direction. I like the market. It *is* an instrument of Progress (on my good
days I think even Joe Pannon is an instrument of Progress, since he succeeds
in alienating so many people from ultraright thinking) but it is an
imperfect one. I hate overregulation but I don't necessarily hate all kinds
of regulations -- for instance if people are compelled by law to buy auto
insurance (as they are in California) this is no longer a pure market
situation and regulation of the auto insurance industry is to some extent
justified.

Andra1s Kornai
+ - Re: liberalism, what is it? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In reply to your message of "Thu, 30 Jun 94 17: 02:07 PDT."
             >
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 17:43:10 -0700
From: 

Andra1s Kornai writes:
> >   (3)  that the market can and ought to be an instrument of Progress
> And so can be Science, Law, Technology, Industry, and even Providence:-)
I do think you underestimate the role free/competitive markets play in
liberalism; but it's your soapbox.  :-)

--Greg
+ - Re: liberalism, what is it? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Greg Grose writes:
> I do think you underestimate the role free/competitive markets play in
> liberalism; but it's your soapbox.  :-)
Perhaps I do. I said I like the market and for many, if not most, issues I
strongly prefer it to state-owned/operated solutions. Yet there are issues
that don't seem to be amenable to strictly market-based solutions. Insurance
is definitely one of these (there is even a neat analysis of how can there be
buyers at every point of a whole range of prices, sellers at every point of
the same range, yet no trades taking place). So is redistribution of wealth,
which I view as a social and moral imperative.  I have some doubts about
privately owned and operated infrastructure like toll roads, but I admit these
to be based not on rational thinking but on a gut feeling: if the state
doesn't even have the money to build roads it is a really crappy state.
Please feel free to take the soapbox...

Andra1s Kornai
+ - Help Wanted! Magyar C programmers please! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

My apologies, if there exists a hu.jobs.wanted...

I would like to invite Hungarians with good C programming skills (no OOP
necessary) to send me a reply, preferably with a brief description of
their experience.  I am looking for many programmers, not just one.

The Job:
         As of yet, undefined.  I will be looking to (hastily) assemble a
product which may or may not use the Microsoft Windows SDK.  I will
forward module specs, for which I would like (extremely) structured code
written.

Qualifications:
         None really, except for the truly important ones.  I am looking for
programmers who can crank out code (to spec) quickly.  I will be using
very strict ANSI controls and the Borland C++ compiler.

Remuneration:
         This will vary by module, as not all code/specs will be equal.
For my legal/tax requirements.  You will be deemed 'contractors/consultants',
not employees.

Bornyi Andras

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