Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 233
Copyright (C) HIX
1995-02-23
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: SCM reorganization?! (mind)  50 sor     (cikkei)
2 HIX and moderation (mind)  55 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: SCM reorganization?! (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Attila the Hun (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
5 environmental policy (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Attila the Hun (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: HIX and moderation (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
8 New York Times on Hungary (mind)  157 sor     (cikkei)
9 SOS STOP THE WAR (ENGLISH) (fwd) (mind)  316 sor     (cikkei)
10 QUESTIONS ????? (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: SCM reorganization?! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Gotthard and others,

 Creation of an exclusively non-English group runs against the spirit of the
"Big 7" thus is likely to draw opposition from every corner of Usenet to
prevent bad precedent. So I think lobbying for a hungarian-only s.c.m is
a bad idea which may even generate enough NO votes to block creating the
much needed s.c.h. If there is enough interest in native language
newsgroups then, rather than trying to grab a slice of the Usenet pie
maintained by and for a community that is overwhelmingly
English-speaking, propagation of the national hierarchy ought to be
promoted. That is how everyone else does it: the Germans, the French, the
Spanish, the Russians etc.
 Furthermore, in case of s.c.m coexisting with s.c.h no matter what the
charters say, there would be posters using either languages in both
groups, as well as excessive crossposting by those who are aware of both,
while some would find only one and miss the other. That's why I think
keeping a semi-redundant s.c.m together with s.c.h is not a good idea.

 With respect to s.c.{m|h}.hix the merits of HIX per se are not on topic,
the need for having a separate group for it is. (Though now I should
point out that, contrary to Gotthard's assertion HIX is not one entity
with "questionable moderation methods" but a collection of many lists
only a small fraction of whose traffic is moderated at all.) If you
don't like it in s.c.{m|h} all the more reason to let it go into its own
group. Since you cannot censor it away from the net why not settle with
having separate ways?!

-- Zoli 

On 21 Feb 1995, Gotthard Saghi-Szabo wrote:

> as it is right now, I would like to keep soc.culture.magyar for the Hungarian
> language discussion on USENET.
> soc.culture.hungarian should be established for the English language
contributors,
> and not as a replacement for the existing newsgroup, especially because of
the
> large number of Hungarians in the English speaking diaspora.
> I am against establishing the s.c.m.hix , because -
> - I guess mail servers like HIX, will be outdated very soon, as  better
> technology becomes more available for everyone.In the meantime, the
> Hungarian language HIX postings should go to the soc.culture.magyar,
> - I am against moderation on the Hungarian newsgroups, the reason why I
> unsubscribed from HIX was its questionable moderation methods.
> Rather, I would encourage HIX contributors to come out as much and as soon
> as they can to the USENET groups.
> I would immediately remove HIX's HUNGARY from soc.culture.magyar to save
> bandwidth. Those soc.culture.magyar readers who read the postings should
> either get  bit.listserv.hungary or subscribe to the listserver,
> or to HIX , and get it by mail.
+ - HIX and moderation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
"Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq" > writes:
..
> With respect to s.c.{m|h}.hix the merits of HIX per se are not on topic,
>the need for having a separate group for it is. (Though now I should
>point out that, contrary to Gotthard's assertion HIX is not one entity
>with "questionable moderation methods" but a collection of many lists
>only a small fraction of whose traffic is moderated at all.) If you
>don't like it in s.c.{m|h} all the more reason to let it go into its own
>group. Since you cannot censor it away from the net why not settle with
>having separate ways?!

Szervusz Zoli,
then, please, let me bring HIX up as a topic . I am, and I think many others
are,
aware of the fact that HIX is not one entity,I never meant to suggest that.
Although, I had the very impression that, at least at the beginning, HIX was
controlled by a very small group or rather one person.
There have been limitations imposed, text cut out and access denied to
persons even on the 'unmoderated' group - FORUM.  Although, more active persons
on HIX-FORUM, if I recall it right - Mr.Pannon, Mr.Pellionnis etc. -, might
also have their oppinion about it. Besides othars, one of the events that made
me
leave the list was when some nit-wit , posted a dirty joke using HIX's
anonymous
option on one of the lists, where that joke was forbidden to be.
Now, he used the anonymous option because he was probably ashamed of its
content,
and certainly wanted to remain in incognito, trusting his "trusted list
administrator".
Well, what Mr. Hollosi did after this, was hard to believe for me
(although easy to do)-

- he tracked the person down on the net
- he posted the details of his investigation
- he posted the nit-wit's name, making him naked and ridiculing him in front of
  the list readers
- after all,the person was denied access to the groups for a period of time

This is not about censorship, this is about disciplining with the abuse of your
administrative power.So did several similar things happen on FORUM,all of which
can be read in the HIX archives.

On more thing, Zoli. I never wanted to censor away the HIX group from the
USENET,
and I think I have never mentioned it. In fact, I was for bringing HIX out from
the background, so that the information it provides would be available for
others,
and, hopefully, this openness would prevent things I mentioned earlier to
happen again.
Since the s.c... groups are carried almost at every USENET site, I guess that
is the
place where HIX should be.
Regards,
Gotthard
+ - Re: SCM reorganization?! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
"Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq" > writes:
..
> Creation of an exclusively non-English group runs against the spirit of the
>"Big 7" thus is likely to draw opposition from every corner of Usenet to
>prevent bad precedent. So I think lobbying for a hungarian-only s.c.m is
>a bad idea which may even generate enough NO votes to block creating the
>much needed s.c.h. If there is enough interest in native language
>newsgroups then, rather than trying to grab a slice of the Usenet pie
>maintained by and for a community that is overwhelmingly
>English-speaking, propagation of the national hierarchy ought to be
>promoted. That is how everyone else does it: the Germans, the French, the
>Spanish, the Russians etc.
> Furthermore, in case of s.c.m coexisting with s.c.h no matter what the
>charters say, there would be posters using either languages in both
>groups, as well as excessive crossposting by those who are aware of both,
>while some would find only one and miss the other. That's why I think
>keeping a semi-redundant s.c.m together with s.c.h is not a good idea.

Szervusz Zoli,
I have to agree with most af the things you wrote. Although, if you rephrase
it carefully, we might get the soc.culture.hungary group, and can still keep
the soc.culture.magyar.
If you take a look at some of the groups, e.g.  -

soc.culture.jewish
soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
soc.culture.israel

, we can also assign soc.culture.magyar to the Hungarian people and their
history,
living all around the world - 10+5 million of them, and soc.culture.hungary to
Hungary,
its people, nationalities, neighbours, current issues etc.
Regards,
Gotthard
+ - Re: Attila the Hun (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Feb 21, 11:23pm, "SZABO,ATTILA" wrote:
> Subject: Re: Attila the Hun
> Joe Pannon writes...
> >
>> I was told by my father that when Attila was buried, the Tisza was
>> deliberately diverted and he was buried in the river bed. And then, so
>> that no one would know, his soldiers executed each other.
> >
> >So how do we know then?
> >
> >Joe
>
> I do not want to be cynical and by far do not mean to insult anyone, but
> for the sake of curiosity what happened to the last soldier ? Suicide ?
>
> As Joe said, someone didn't play by the rule, because otherwise we wouldn't
> know that.  But the legend goes on...
>
> Attila (not the hun, but the HUNgarian)

For what it's worth, the version of the story I read at some point was that a
group of soldiers were sent to bury Attila, diverted the river, buried him,
returned the river to its original course, and then returned. Other Hun
soldiers (not those involved in the burial) then killed them so as to keep
the burial place a secret.

Heather Olsen
+ - environmental policy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am researching environmental policy in Hungary.  If anyone
knows of a good english language source, I would appreicate you letting
me know.  I am also interested in finding out what international
organizations are involved in the Hungarian environment.

Heidi Hentges

+ - Re: Attila the Hun (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

SZABO,ATTILA writes:
>
> In article >, Joe Pannon
> > writes...
> >Karcsi:
> >
> >>        I was told by my father that when Attila was buried, the Tisza was
> >>deliberately diverted and he was buried in the river bed. And then, so that
> no
> >>one would know, his soldiers executed each other.
> >
> >So how do we know then?
> >
> >Joe
>
> I do not want to be cynical and by far do not mean to insult anyone, but
> for the sake of curiosity what happened to the last soldier ? Suicide ?
>
> As Joe said, someone didn't play by the rule, because otherwise we wouldn't
> know that.  But the legend goes on...
>
> Attila (not the hun, but the HUNgarian)
>
I had read recently that there was a stockbroker who was searching for
Ghengis Khan's burial site. In that article there was a similar legend
about his burial. The legend was that when Ghengis died he was buried in
some remote area with all the treasure from the Mongol empire. Everyone in
the burial party was then killed by the soldiers and also buried with
Ghengis. The soldiers then rode back to the greater horde where they were
in turn immediately slayed, thus insuring the secrecy of the burial site.

It must have worked because the easiest secret to keep is the one that one
that nobody knows about.

Now if I can only get all this correctly worded in my will. ;-)

Kovacs Steve
+ - Re: HIX and moderation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Gotthard Saghi-Szabo) writes:

[stuff deleted]
>Besides othars, one of the events that made me
>leave the list was when some nit-wit, posted a dirty joke using HIX's
anonymous

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>option on one of the lists, where that joke was forbidden to be.
 ^^^^^^
[rest of the story deleted]

Gothard,

I'm not trying to convince you to return to the list, but -just for the
record- I'd like to note that "the nit-wit" was NOT using HIX's anonymous
option, rather he FORGED his address (clearly, he's a tricky guy).
I don't know what the course of events might've been had he used the
anonymous option.  Also, I do not necessarily approve of what the list
owner/supervisor did, but that's another story.

I simply wanted to point out that your version of the story is somewhat
inexact.   Regards,

Andras
+ - New York Times on Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At last a substantial article appeared about Hungary in *The New York Times.*
Unfortunately, it is not flattering. It is written by Jane Perlez, the
correspondence to the *Times" from Eastern Europe. The writing was tucked
away in the Business Section, so some of you may not have seen it. Here is
the whole article:

BUDAPEST, Feb. 15.- Hungary, once the lustrous pioneer in attracting Western
investment to Eastern Europe, is losing its glamour as a result of the
ambivalent policies of a coalition Government led by former Communists.

Analysts and investors point most recently to the cancellation of a big
American hotel deal because of the personal intervention of Prime Minister
Gyula Horn and the resulting resignation two weeks ago of the country's
internationally respected Finance Minister, Laszlo Bekesi. He is being
replaced by Lajos Bokros, chairman of the state-owned Budapest Bank, the
nation's sixth largest.
Adding to the consternation, the privatization chief, Ferenc Bartha, one of
the few technocrats in the Government, was dismissed by Mr. Horn and has yet
to be replaced. Another important post, the governorship of the central bank,
which has been vacant since the Prime Minister pushed out Peter Akos Bod in
November, will be filled by Gyorgy Suranyi, managing director of the Central
European International Bank, the eighth-largest commercial bank in Hungary.

But potential investors have been most alarmed by the Prime Minister's
decision last month to overturn the agreement reached between Hungary's
privatization agency and American General Hospitality, which had offered
$57.5 million for a 51 percent stake in the state-owned HungaryHotels chain.
Apparently bowing to pressure from the left-wing unions of his Socialist
Party--the renamed Communists--Mr. Horn declared that the properties were
undervalued and the price too low. The American company argued in turn that
there was only one outstanding property among the 14 hotels for sale, the
Forum Hotel in Budapest, and even that had faded a bit by Western European
standards.

Angered by interference in what it considered a completed transaction,
American General Hospitality, which is based in Dallas, declined to
renegotiate and canceled the deal.

Mr. Bekesi, whose performance as Finance Minister had been praised by the
International Monetary Fund, then quit, saying his authority had been eroded
and that political decisions were inappropriate in the privatization process.
He also questioned the resoluteness of Mr. Horn's Government in dealing with
the country's macro-economic problems. Hungary has a foreign debt equal to 67
percent of its gross domestic product--a greater burden, some analysts have
noted, than Mexico's 46 percent.

Analysts of the proposed 1995 budget said Mr. Horn had not been willing to
make the spending cuts demanded by the International Monetary Fund for
securing a new lending agreement. Failure to get the agreement would be a big
embarrassment for the Government.

Mr. Bekesi, pointing to the gap between himself and the Prime Minister, said
after he resigned, "If I had seen any chance that the most basic conditions
for the stabilization of the country's economic situation could be created
with my assistance as Finance Minister, I would not have offered my
resignation."

His departure has particularly troubled outside investors.

"Bekesi had real credibility for foreign investors," said Peter Fath,
executive director of the 350-member American Chamber of Commerce here. "They
saw him as the right man in the right position. They trusted him."

Mr. Fath said Mr. Horn's plan to establish a privatization ministry outside
the orbit of the Finance Ministry would only present further obstacles to
privatization. "But the process is so slow now I don't know how you could
slow it down further," he added.

Ralph Gerson, president of Guardian International, a division of Guardian Indu
stries of Northfield, Mich., which has invested $120 million in a float glass
plant in southern Hungary, said Mr. Horn's actions had made newcomers to the
country warier.

"I've heard a lot of concerns from companies interested in investing in
Hungary," said Mr. Gerson, who is also president of the Hungary-United States
Business Council.

Foreign investors, unsettled by the vacancies at the central bank and the
Finance Ministry, were somewhat reassured by the two successors nominated by
the Prime Minister. Mr. Bokros led Budapest Bank back to financial health and
into a possible sale to Cre1dit Suisse, which is negotiating to buy a
majority stake in the bank for $100 million.

And Mr. Suranyi, who said he won guarantees of independence from Mr. Horn
before accepting the nomination, has said that he will continue a tight
monetary policy at the Hungarian central bank.

But some investors said it remained to be seen whether the two would have
greater success battling the iron hand of the Prime Minister than Mr. Bekesi
did. Mr. Gerson said some Western investors already in Hungary were taking a
second look at their expansion plans.

The turmoil is a startling change in image and substance from the go-go years
after 1989, when the remnants of the comparatively easygoing "goulash
Communism" in Hungary, its welcoming if exasperating bureaucracy and its
sophisticated capital on the Danube, made this country the most beckoning in
Eastern Europe for foreign investors.

The so-called gold rush into Hungary--led by automobile, lighting and glass
companies--yielded significant gains for the state treasury. Since 1989,
Hungary has attracted more than $6 billion in Western investment, small by
the standards of emerging economies in Asia, for instance, but by far the
largest amount of any country in Eastern Europe.

American companies are the biggest investors in Hungary and account for more
than $3 billion of the foreign investment, Mr. Fath said.

Mr. Horn--a strong-willed man who rose through the ranks of the Communist
Party to become Foreign Minister in the 1980's and whose party of former
Communists was successful at the polls last May--is popular among the
Hungarian electorate. His cancellation of the hotel deal met with the
approval of many voters exasperated by the specter of foreign ownership and
still high unemployment.

A poll published last Friday by the daily newspaper Magyar Hirlap reported
that only a third of 709 Hungarians reached by telephone welcomes foreign
investment in their country. A further 28 percent considered it "bad but
necessary," while 35 percent disapproved. The remaining 4 percent did not
know. No margin of error was given.

As viewed from outside, though, Mr. Horn's moves came at a particularly
unfortunate time--in the wake of the Mexico crisis, as investors in emerging
markets everywhere reassessed their positions.

Hungary is vulnerable to the jitters of foreign investors because it has
relied heavily on foreign capital to modernize its economy. The Government
has budgeted on the basis of about $1 billion in direct foreign investment
and more than $1.2 billion in sales of state companies this year. With this
extra revenue, the budget deficit is put at 5.5 percent of the gross domestic
product.

But analysts doubted that these targets would be met in the environment
created by Mr. Horn.

The next big privatization deals involve the country's utilities. The
Government has pledged to offer investors minority stakes in the
electric-power grid and other power utilities. But in what a Western diplomat
called one of Mr. Horn's "Orwellian" recent statements, the Prime Minister
put a question mark on these plans, too.

"It is of strategic importance that the country not be dependent either on
foreigners or domestic private businesses in terms of its power supply," Mr.
Horn told Nepszabadsag, Hungary's most widely read newspaper.

[End of article.]

Mr. Horn is a demagogue, I'm afraid. And so are some members of his cabinet.
The minister of industry and trade and the minister of agriculture come to
mind in this respect. The population's economic instincts are wrong and the
current government only fans dissatisfaction with market economy,
privatization, and foreign investment. Already, in less than a year, this
government managed to make things worse economically. Unemployment is up,
inflation is up, foreign investment is down, just to mention a few items. If
it goes like this even the favorable trend of economic growth of 5-6 percent
achieved last year might be reversed.

Eva Balogh
+ - SOS STOP THE WAR (ENGLISH) (fwd) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Forwarded message:
Delivery-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 14:55:52 +0000
Sender:  (mailing list owner)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:47:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Wehling >
To: , , 
Subject: SOS STOP THE WAR (ENGLISH) (fwd)
Message-ID: >
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Reply-To: 1-UNION Distribution List >
X-Sequence: 2482


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:32:09 -0800
From: National Commission for Democracy in Mexico >
To: , ,
    
Subject: SOS STOP THE WAR (ENGLISH)

/* Written 11:30 AM  Feb 21, 1995 by moonlight in igc:reg.mexico */
/* ---------- "SOS STOP THE WAR (ENGLISH)" ---------- */
The document that follows includes a letter to Parliaments and their
 representatives
across the globe.  It also includes a list of 5 activities people everywhere
can carry out in solidarity.  It was produced by Mexican Federal Deputies.



We direct ourselves to the parliaments of the world to ask them
for their support in the task of defending the human rights,
democratic liberties and construction of peace with justice and
dignity in Mexico.

The support is limited only by our own self-determination and
sovereignty. We Mexicans should not look to the peoples of the
world and even less to other governments, for what we can not do
for ourselves: our national liberation.

As you know, the war in Chiapas involves the civilian population.
Campesinos and indigenous have been tortured and assassinated.
People have been detained without proof; innocents have been
jailed; soldiers have raped young indigenous women, and mothers
have been threatened with the murder of their children.  The
president, as the great Inquisitor, accuses, judges, and
condemns, as in a dictatorship.

Access to the zone has been denied (that that there was) to
priests, international human rights organizations, observers, and
media.  The Red Cross was forced to leave, supposedly for lack of
adequate conditions to complete their human labor, but in reality
basically they were expelled at the orders of the authorities.

The treaties of the Geneva Convention have been violated
systematically by the Mexican Army.  We have available a dossier
of documentation that proves each one of the crimes against
humanity, and the damage to world peace committed by President
Zedillo's regime.  It is not legal to murder civilians in any
part of the world. The government had agreed to a truce with the
EZLN, which they broke because the armed were "arming", and
because the rebels were "rebelling.  It's hard to believe, we
know, but it's true.  Abruptly Zedillo broke off discussions of
Peace because thousands and thousands of poor Indians and
campesinos had risen up in arms; they had arms!  The discussion
of peace is to be between belligerent armed forces.  The
government betrayed the campesinos and the indigenous, making
them believe that it wanted peace. But for example the government
presented to the press, as proof of subversion, issues of the New
York Times. The presumed "head" of the EZLN, Javier Elorreaga, is
no more than a TV producer and a journalist.  They didn't find
weapons, and his only crime was to be married to Maria Gloria
Benavides, who at one time supposedly belonged to the FLN
(National Liberation Forces), the supposed predecessor, according
to the government, of the EZLN (denied by Ms. Benavides), and for
which her record was expunged.

The subversive material of the said woman, in addition to the New
York papers, were perfectly legal books and videos.  Also the
supposed arsenal was made up of knives and two pistols.

The Mexican government is looking for legal support for a dirty
war, promoting its commitment to dialogue when in fact it closed
the political solution through peace dialogues with its betrayal
of the truce.  The detainees have been held without any attention
to the law, and the confessions were gained through torture,
including death threats to a two year old baby.

The sovereignty of Mexico is not up for discussion, and all help
has to subordinate itself and be directed by national democratic
political forces, but peace and human rights are an issue for all
peoples of the world.

The parliaments of the world can do much for human rights,
democracy, liberty and peace.  They can contact us for more
information or joint actions; they can, with their countrymen,
make demands at the nearest Mexican consul or embassy for the
health of the prisoners of war, ask for their freedom, humane
treatment, and that they be considered innocent until they are
proven guilty.  A halt to the war can be demanded, an end to the
bombings, a halt to the persecution of Catholics and ministers in
the church.  The economic crisis in Mexico is structural and
definitive.  The 50 billion dollar loan which has been negotiated
will only enrich more the 24 billionaires and their associates on
Wall Street.  Mexico will never be able to pay back a debt of
this size.

To maintain and support a criminal and corrupt dictatorship which
has been in power for more than 65 years, to foment a war and to
make it a condition of the loan is an error of President Clinton
which will put North American stability in danger.  Two military
North American advisors have been detected in the conflict zone.

Today the peace of the continent is in danger. A new Vietnam is
on the horizon. All of the parliaments and our people can and
should take measures for the reestablishment of peace in Chiapas,
for the end to persecution and for the release of the prisoners
of war.  We call to your best sentiments, remember that your
actions could allow one indigenous girl to live, one campesino to
conserve the joy of his life: the smile of his children.

Because the war has been carried out against innocents, stop it:
no money for weapons for Mexico, no help in massacring the
people, no blood money.

Peace will flourish in liberty, justice and democracy, and it has
no borders.

Fellow parliamentarian, I ask you on behalf of those without
voice or without face of my country, the poor campesinos and
indigenous, read publicly this letter in your parliament and take
actions in your country: detain the war and the violence.

Parliamentarian, I thank you for your support and solidarity as
well as that of your countrymen and women, your artists and
intellectuals, your campesinos, workers, indigenous and
minorities.

>From my heart through which flows my blood I thank you for your
honest and objective help.


We propose to the parliaments five steps for the peace:

First: Read this complete document in your parliament or your
house of representatives and discuss it and make declarations
with regard to it and then promote it constantly with the
commissions of human rights and other appropriate agencies.

Second: As means of formalizing, giving legality and facilitating
peace, grant the status of belligerent forces to the EZLN and get
it legal recognition in your country.  Ask for the withdrawal of
the troops, a neutral zone, and the halt to the persecution and
harassment by the government of the National Commission of
Intermediation (CONAI) and Bishop Samuel Ruiz.  Call for the
parties to respect the Geneva Convention and all other
international laws regarding war.

Third: Do not allow the sale of weapons or equipment for war to
Mexico.  Veto loans while the war continues.  Say no to money for
repression and poverty in Mexico.  No to the interference that
means war, death, and the loss of sovereignty. Yes to aid for
peace and national liberation.  Impede the interference of the
Department of State, of the Pentagon, the CIA and the US military
intelligence.

Fourth: Protest before the Mexican government and its
representatives, asking concretely for a ceasefire, for the
recognition of the EZLN as a belligerent force.  For a treaty
under the Geneva Convention, for freedom for the political
prisoners of war, to demand that the freedom of information and
transit be restored in the conflict zone.

Fifth: We invite you to visit Mexico and that jointly, respectful
of our sovereignty and with our coordination and with the most
freedom possible on our part, an international commission of
parliamentarians backed by jurists and doctors, to support us and
we will visit the war theater and the prisoners of that war.
Peace has no borders.

To your representatives, to your people, we propose the
following:

First Step:
5 letters for peace: Justice and Freedom in Mexico and Chiapas.

-One to the president or prime minister of your country
-One to President Ernesto Zedillo Ponce de Leon
Constitutional President of the United States of Mexico
Los Pinos, Official Residence
Av. Molino del Rey #246, Col. San Miguel Chapultepec
Mexico, D.F.
Mexico C.P. 11850

-One to the United Nations so that they recognize the EZLN as a
belligerent force
Boutros Ghali
United Nations
New York, New York 10017
USA
Telephone: 212-963-1234

-One to the Secretary of State of Mexico  (he is responsible for
the jails)

Lic. Esteban Moctezuma Barragan
Secretaria de Gobernacion
Bucareli #99, Col. Centro
Mexico, D.F.
Mexico, C.P. 06600

-One to the Federal Deputies' Commission who have signed this
letter:
Av. Xola 181, 3er. piso
Col. Alamos, Mexico D.F.
Mexico 03400


Second Step:
Postcards
Let the indigenous and campesinos of Chiapas know that they are
not alone.  Put your thoughts on a postcard and send them to the
Mexican newspapers.

El Financiero
Lago Bolsena 176 Col. Anihuac-Pensil
Mexico D.F.
Mexico C.P. 11590

La Jornada
Balderas N 68, Centro
Mexico, D.F.
Mexico, C.P. 06050


Third Step:
Hundreds of thousands of calls for freedom:
Call the embassy or the Mexican diplomatic representative nearest
to you.  Give your name and telephone number. Ask for peace in
Mexico and freedom for the prisoners of war.  Call every day.
Send faxes also.  All the citizens of the world have the right to
information about peace, exercise it.  Call even though it's long
distance.

President of the Mexican Republic:
Telephones:
     515-82-546
     515-98-27
     522-53-38
     515-37-17

Secretary of State:
Highest office: 535-56-86
General Director of State: 592-44-98
                           592-43-98


Fourth Step:
The first World Action on Internet for Peace, Justice and Freedom
in Mexico.

Retransmit, sponsor forums, chains, panels, conferences,
conversations, translations, reports.  This is the greatest
action of peace, democracy and justice taking place in
cyberspace.


Fifth Step:
Adopt a prisoner of war.

The prisoners are men, women and young people, campesinos,
indigenous, workers and intellectuals with names and faces. Adopt
one: commit yourself to that person and his/her freedom and life,
his/her integrity.  The campesinos and indigenous, the Mexican
women and children are not alone: you are with them, have others
join you and form a committee. The prisoners count, struggle to
free them.

For peace with justice and dignity,

Federal Deputy Carlota Botey
Federal Deputy Edgard Sanchez

Responsible persons for this publication

Federal Deputy Edgar Sanchez Ramirez
Av. Xola 181 3er Piso
Col. Alamos, Mexico D.F.
Mexico 03400
590-09-69
590-20-21
Internet: 

Federal Deputy Carlota Botey
Same Address

Note:  This letter is sent to parliaments all over the world and
in turn it is being copied for the people, as well as for human
rights defense organizations across the world

P.S. Human rights activists and ONGs, Solidarity Committees:
Reproduce this, translate it, print it, copy it, and distribute
this petition for help

P.S. Cyberspace: retransmit to whatever global discussion forum
that there is regarding the theme, also email it to friends,
acquaintances, or mailing lists, in whatever network. SOS STOP
THE WAR

P.S. Reporters: Publish this and all of the truth.  Don't allow
Mexico to repress the mass media



(translated by Cindy Arnold, Volunteer, National Commission for Democracy in
Mexico)
+ - QUESTIONS ????? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Would someone be kind enough to post the FAQ's .

           THANK YOU !!!!


***********************************************************************
                CABLE TV DESCRAMBLING !!!

 Insider's information for all types of systems. Everything the cable
companies don't want you to know !   Want more information ?

           Finger or E-mail: 
***********************************************************************

AGYKONTROLL ALLAT AUTO AZSIA BUDAPEST CODER DOSZ FELVIDEK FILM FILOZOFIA FORUM GURU HANG HIPHOP HIRDETES HIRMONDO HIXDVD HUDOM HUNGARY JATEK KEP KONYHA KONYV KORNYESZ KUKKER KULTURA LINUX MAGELLAN MAHAL MOBIL MOKA MOZAIK NARANCS NARANCS1 NY NYELV OTTHON OTTHONKA PARA RANDI REJTVENY SCM SPORT SZABAD SZALON TANC TIPP TUDOMANY UK UTAZAS UTLEVEL VITA WEBMESTER WINDOWS