Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 re:Mongolians (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
2 Juliana Vancsai (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
3 To Peter, Re: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina (mind)  99 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: ???!!! RE: Flag ban l (mind)  48 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Clinton-Iliescu Meeting (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
6 soc.genealogy.slavic - Part 2 - Process (mind)  57 sor     (cikkei)
7 Az uj szlav.geneology dolog... (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Re:...Penzugyesek fizetese... (mind)  43 sor     (cikkei)
9 soc.genealogy.slavic - Part 1 - Intro (mind)  62 sor     (cikkei)
10 soc.genealogy.slavic - Part 3 - Discussion (mind)  81 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Hungarian language via internet. (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
12 millcentenial articles (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
13 Blind Spot for Vojvodina (mind)  149 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: re:Mongolians (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
15 AustroHungarian Empire (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: soc.genealogy.slavic - Part 1 - Intro (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)

+ - re:Mongolians (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

What happen? I can not find "soc.culture.mongolian" on internet any more.
+ - Juliana Vancsai (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am searching for Juliana Vancsai of Budapest.  I understand she is an 
teacher at some sort of military school.  I place foreign exchange 
students and currently have one from Hungary.  This student was hoping to 
e-mail her while here, but has lost her e-mail address.  If anyone knows 
her, could you please have contact me.

Thank you in advance

+ - To Peter, Re: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 12 Oct 1995 Peter@.MISSING-HOST-NAME. wrote:

> 1. The Great Assembly (Velika narodna skupstina) of the Serbs,
>  Bunjevaci and other Slav population of Banat, Bacska, and 
> Baranya, held in Novi Sad on October 25, 1918, 
> has made its decision based of the representation by the minority
>  Slav population of Vojvodina. (At that time Slav population of 
> Vojvodian amounted to 38.119% of the total 
> population of Vojvodina.
> The majority-61.879% of the non-Slav population of Vojvodina, 
> the Hungarians, Germans, Rumanians and others were denied the 
> opportunity to participate in the decision about the future 
> status of Vojvodina. According to the census of 1921 the 
> Serbs constituted only 28.5% of the total population of Vojvodina.

This is absolutely true.  However, I did not want to go into detail on 
that.  Yes, a minority decided.  But as you know very well, that was the 
end of the World War One in which Serbia lost 43% of its grown male 
population (1.4 million people dead total, out of 4.3 million), in which 
Serbia was burnt down to the grounds, in which 
Belgrade was heavilly damaged by the Austro-Hungarian forces (due to 
that, Belgrade has lost most of its previous beauty).  We are 
talking here about an outcome of the war in which, as always, there were 
sides that win and sides that lose.

Serbian general (vojvoda) Putnik conquered land dozens of miles north of 
Subotica (Szabadka) (I don't know exactly where his troops stopped).  
The border line was drawn to be just north of that city.  Big powers approved 
Serbian annexation of the region as a "reward".  

So, don't misunderstand me.  I am not approving anything here; it's a 
mere fact that one big country invaded another one, then lost, and then big 
powers decided what to do with it.  Yes, that's unfair, but so was 
unprecedented exodus of the Serbs which they can't be blamed for.  That's 
just the way things worked then, and that should change.  But going back 
to history is not an answer because everyone then has certain claims.  
This horror in the Balkans shows what it leads to, and shows a certain 
immaturity of Europeans as well; it's their tragedy and their shame as well.

>  For this reason, the decision made at the above "Great Assembly" is an illeg
> Dictate imposed by a minority. 
> The right for self determination has not been made accessible 
> under equal conditions for the rest of the majority population of Vojvodina.
> 2. Many of the delegates who participated and voted in the "Great Assembly" o
f 1918 
> represented areas, which according to the final document of 
> joining Vojvodina with Serbia, later did not become part of the Kingdom 
of Serbs Croats and Slovenians.
> 3. Prior to the resolve of the "Great Assembly," a decision was 
> made by the National Council of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenians on 
> November 24, 1918, in Zagreb regarding 
> the union of the Kingdom of Serbia and Montenegro. Since October 
> 29, 1818,  the legitimate authoritative body dealing with the status of Serbs
 living on territories of the 
> Austro-Hungarian Empire was the above National Council of Serbs, Croats and 
> Slovenians, and not the "Great Assembly".
> 4. Regardless of the desires and the decision of the "Great 
> Assembly," Banat, Bacska and Baranya, (the territories largely
> equated with today's Vojvodina), by the 
> International Peace Treaty of Trianon (June 4, 1920) Vojvodina 
> was allotet to the 
> Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians, and not to Serbia.  

Yes, but that's a matter of interpretation.  What Vojvodinian Serbs claim 
and take as a mere fact is that they joined Kingdom of Serbia, which a 
few days later merged with the rest of SCS and made a Serb-dominated 
kingdom latter known as Yugoslavia.  But that is, as you say, irrelevant.

> Yet all of the above is in essence irrelevant, because 
the rights > of people to exist on the land where they have lived and 
> prospered for centuries are not based on the ups and downs of
> history. The greatness of a nation is reflected  
> in its ability to coexist with other people as part of
> the human family. Today, the big challenge for Serbs in Serbia
> proper is wheather or not they can demonstrate 
> the ability to guarantie the future survival of 350,000 ethnic 
> Hungarians in Vojvodina. 

You bet.  I absolutely agree.

> I hope and trust they can.

I hope, too.  It's primarily up to Serbia to get rid of its (somewhat 
justified) xenophobia, change the government, and help preserving 
Vojvodinian melting pot.  Frankly, that is hard (since I am from the 
region), but majority of people want that.  It's all influenced by the 
constant demonizing of the Serbs which awakes Serbian "spite" which then 
becomes a very ruthless tool against all non-Serbs who don't agree with 
them. But, everything is doable, and I believe that things will settle 
for the best of all.

Greetings: > Peter Kaslik > Hungarian Human Rights Monitor, Toronto >  

Best regards.  Thanks for "fullfilling" this subject on Vojvodina.

Boris Bjelica
Senior in Electrical Engineering
Oregon State University
+ - Re: ???!!! RE: Flag ban l (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Dan Pop) wrote:

:All my Hungarian colleagues at Bucharest University had Hungarian names
:(Szekely, Zsombor, Zsigmond, Asztalos, Molnar, Palfi, Csiki).  All the
:Hungarian MP's I've ever heard of have Hungarian names.  How about

          ------ <other text deleted for brevity> --------

 Hello Dan!

 Please excuse the interruption of your conversation here, but I am a
 newcomer to this newsgroup and I am also Hungarian by birth.
 I am first generation American. My parents and grandparents immigrated
 from Hungary in the early 1900s. They finally settled in Cleveland,
 Ohio and that is where I was born 55 years ago.

 My Mothers maiden name was "Borsos".
 My maternal Grandmothers maiden name was "Santa".
 My Fathers name was "Hiszem".
 My Paternal Grandmothers name was "Petran".

 From the few glubs of information I could gather from the family on
 both sides, my Paternal Grandmother <Petran> was a Romanian girl from

 <Sorry...I don't know what city or village my parents or grandparents
 came from.>

 I understand that the name of "Hiszem" is not too common in
 Hungary.  If this is so....could you shed some light on just what
 country this name came from?  Could it be more Romanian?

 You seem so knowledgeable about Hungarian and Romanian names I am
 hoping that you can help me identify my families surenames with
 respective countrys there.

 Thank you for your time and trouble.

 I wish I could write some in Hungarian, but I don't know how.
 Please forgive me. <smile>

 Helen <Ilonka>

 * SLMR 2.1a * A comment here, a comment there...It all adds up.
+ - Re: Clinton-Iliescu Meeting (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In >  (Alexander Bossy) writes:

>	While I don't have much faith in Iliescu's basic morality (he 
>grew up a communist, and he remains a neo-communist), like all 
>politicians his first goal is survival.  If his political survival demands 
>that he move from his present professed creed of 
>communist-turned-nationalist, I'm sure that he will.  After all, a 
>similar transformation is already well underway in Serbia.  I don't see 
>is as any more unlikely in Romania - and a lot easier since Romania and 
>Hungary aren't at war (nor was the Hungarian occupation of Northern 
>Transylvania during the war accompanied by genocide).
That is, if we forget that the villages Ip and Traznea ever existed :-(

As mentioned in the discussions about the Iasi and Odessa massacres,
sons aren't guilty for the fathers' sins and what was then shouldn't
affect the current and future relations between Romanians and
Hungarians, but we shouldn't forget the mistakes of the past if we want
to avoid them in the future.

Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
+ - soc.genealogy.slavic - Part 2 - Process (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Soc.Genealogy.Slavic - Part 2 - Process

To create a genealogy newsgroup, a set process must
be followed.  This includes:

1. The posting in soc.genealogy.computing of an RFD
    (Request For Discussion).  This is a formal document
    which sets forth the charter of the proposed group
    including the area it wishes to cover, whether or not
    it would be moderated, what languages are allowed,
    what is inappropriate, etc.
2.  After a reasonable length of time for discussion, a
    CFV (Call For Votes) is posted and votes are collected.
    The creation of the new group passes if the Yeas get
    100 more votes than the Nays.
3. A sponsor (usually Apple, for genealogy groups)
    creates the home group.  Listservs, if
    required, - to date this has not been suggested -
    are also set up.

In practice, there are steps 0.5, 1.5 and a step 2.5:

0.5 To assure reasonable unanimity and to make the
    creation process enjoyable, any divisive topics are
    hashed out prior to the post of the formal RFD.

1.5 A list of supporters, related Internet or
    commercial services, etc. is collected to later
    notify and ensure maximum turnout for the
    upcoming CFV.

2.5 Support materials, such as a FAQ, list of how-to
   materials, related sites, etc. are collected for
   periodic posting to the group.

As such, Part 3 of this post is to kick off discussion
of some of the important charter points prior to RFD posting.

If anyone has any materials which could aid in the above,
it would be much appreciated this would include:

Slavic/Eastern European web sites, listservs, listprocs,
commercial services, people you know are interested,
writeups on how to do eastern european genealogy
research, etc.

Also, I'm not multi-lingual, and it might be useful
to get a FAQ, etc., into some or all of the relevant
languages.  Any volunteers?

*End of Part 2*
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Kymlicka /
2333 Robinson St., Regina, SK, S4T 2R3 /
"We give to necessity, the praise of virtue".  Quintillian
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
+ - Az uj szlav.geneology dolog... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Lattam hogy valaki fel ragta hogy akar egy soc.slav.geneology
dolgot kezdeni.  Tudja o" hogy a magyarok nem slavok?  I wonder...
Megis... szerintem tul sok vitatkozas lenne benne a magyar/szlavok
ko:zt, rosszabb mint a magyar/roman vitak :-))))

good luck

+ - Re: Re:...Penzugyesek fizetese... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Kadar
Gyorgy,  writes:
>	Tamas, a magyar paraszt nem maga termeli a vetomagjat, mivel az 
>szervezetileg kulon kezelodik a kenyer- es takarmanygabonatol, erre 
>hivatott allami szervezet termeli vagy termelteti meg eleg szigoru 
>szerzodeses alapon, igy a vetomagot ugyan valoban eladtak, de nem a 

Igen, pontatlanul fogalmaztam: a termelok adtak el nagymennyisegu
vetomagot etkezesi gabonakent. Mas kerdes, hogy en mar hallottam
olyan gazdarol, aki  egy hibridbuzat direkttermove tett azzal, hogy az
elozo evi termesbol vetett vissza 8-/, mivel nem volt penze vetomag-
ra. :-(

>	a magyar paraszt ma meg legalabb harom lepesre - ugy ertsd, hogy 
>kozvetitesi lepcsofokra - van a tozsdetol, igy a termekeit legfeljebb ha 
>elvileg tudja szabadon eladni a tozsden. 

Az elvi lehetoseg is valami, elobb-utobb eljutnak arra a szintre, hogy
ki is fogjak tudni hasznalni. Valoszinuleg a szovetkezetek lesznek az
elsok, akik meg fogjak probalni megtorni az ot nagy kereskedo monopo-
liumat, amely csupan a tozsde ismereten es tokeerejuk kihasznalasan

A kistermelo, aki a szazmazsa buzajat az ertektozsden probalja eladni
valoban csak elmeleti pelda volt. De a kistermelo a parikajaval mar
ki tud menni  a nagybani piacra, a kozvetitot kikerulve direkt a zoldse-
gesnek adva el az arujat. (90-91 korul egy zoldseges ismeros, akinek
Pesten van uzlete, a becsi nagybani piacra jart at mindennap aruert,
mert a vamos megkenesevel egyutt is olcsobban jutott aruhoz ott,
mint a magyar viszonteladoktol.)

>	En azt remelem, hogy ra fog jonni a falu, hogy mielobb be 
>kell ruhaznia a raktarozo, feldolgozo, kereskedelmi (igen! egeszen a 
>kulkereskedelemig es a tozsdeig) szektorba, es ignoralnia kell az 
>atmenettel most magasra kapaszkodott daridozo percemberkeket.

Fontos ez is, de a legnagyobb problema az, hogy felnek az emberek
osszeallni szovetkezetbe. Anelkul pedig az apro  magyar gazdasagok
eletkeptelenek hosszu tavon. 

+ - soc.genealogy.slavic - Part 1 - Intro (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Soc.Genealogy.Slavic - Part 1 - Introduction


Hello all.  My name is Stephen Kymlicka and I am posting a
three part notice to speed the creation of soc.genealogy.slavic.
Unfortunately our proponent, Jake Gehring, has resigned for health
reasons and, after a brief discussion among some of the instigators,
the mantle has fell to me.
Alas, I have not created a group before, however, I have been
offered assistance by some of the long-time experts which live
among us. :-)  I believe that the creation of this group is
accomplishable (if that's a word) within a couple of months.


The three parts of this post are:

1) This message which informs you of the change in proponent,
    announces the renewed campaign to create the group, and
    to recap the basic mission of this exercise.
2) The process or a list of tasks which have to be completed
    to create the goup.  Any ideas, volunteers of assistance,
    etc. are more than welcome.
3) An introduction of some discussion points which must be
    resolved within the charter of the group.  Any and all
    contributions to this discussion are very welcome.

_Mission Recap_

It is felt that the general genealogy newsgroups (misc,
surnames) are dominated by an American or British bias.

Further, Slavic and, more generally, Eastern European,
genealogy has many unique elements not found in Western
genealogy including language, history, importance of
genealogy, ethic/nationalistic "rationalizations", sources and
source availability.

As a consequence, it is felt that a new unmoderated group,
entitled soc.genealogy.slavic, should be created as a forum
to address and discuss these issues.  It is fundamental
that this group be a place where *all* people who feel the
same pressures or differences feel welcome.

Without entering into a lengthy diatribe, no name seems
to adequately address all concerns.  As such, although
s.g.slavic is the proposed name, no attempt to either
exclude or overtake any ethnic, national or religious
group is implied or intended.  Rather, the name represents
the overwhelming slavic fact of eastern europe and that
eastern european genealogy is, in part, a recognition of
that fact.

*End of Part I*

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Kymlicka /
2333 Robinson St., Regina, SK, S4T 2R3 /
"We give to necessity, the praise of virtue".  Quintillian
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
+ - soc.genealogy.slavic - Part 3 - Discussion (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Soc.Genealogy.Slavic - Part 3 - Discussion Kickoff

This post is to open discussion on some key points
which must be covered in the upcoming RFD.  I'll
post more over the next couple of weeks.  Please
post to soc.genealogy.computing.

1. Geographic Focus:

Major: this group would focus on the European part
of what the Soviet's used to control including Poland,
the Czech Republic, Slovakia, East Germany,
Hungary, the former Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria,
and the former Soviet Union proper.

Minor: other areas where Slavic peoples migrated
including the West.

Initial comments:

Finland is already covered in .nordic although,
insofar as Slavs moved to Finland...
Germany is already in .german, but, in deference
to the Sudeten issue, German questions should
be welcomed.
Hungarian is linguistically not Slavic, however
there is 800 years of integration.
Independant of integration claims, the methods
of research for Slavs and other Eastern Europeans
is similar and as such all are welcome.

2. Language

All languages welcome but common sense
is also welcome.

If the language of the people you want a
response from is Russian, post in Russian
(eg. can someone in St. Petersburg look up ...).
If its a general question, the majority of users
are English speakers, so post in English ... or
ask for translations!

3. Appropriateness

This is to be a newsgroup for the persuit
of genealogy.  As such, value judgements on
politcs and religion are unacceptable.

For example, "Ivan m. Olga moved to Minsk as
part of one of Stalin's relocation projects"
is acceptable.  Descriptors of Stalin including
his politics, homeland, parentage or even his
poetic talents are not.

4. Surnames vs methods vs general stuff

The experience of s.g.uk+ireland is that sources
and places dominate the discussions while
surnames are usually left in s.g.surnames.  The
appropriateness of this has been discussed
off and on in the group since its creation.

Although not explicitly discussed in s.g.german
or s.g.jewish, it seems to me that the same
trend is evident.  Surnames *are* a big part
of s.g.medieval.  With the other groups, I'm not
as familiar.

In all cases, surnames are sometimes posted,
are allowed by charter and nobody seems to
mind *too* much.  Should we say anything
about this?

*End of Part 3*
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Kymlicka /
2333 Robinson St., Regina, SK, S4T 2R3 /
"We give to necessity, the praise of virtue".  Quintillian
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
+ - Re: Hungarian language via internet. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In >, I wrote:
>Here is one of stranger requests to hit this group in a while...
>My wife is doing a course at Polytech, and as part of this course she is
>required to speak several phrases, count to ten etc in a non-English language.
>She has a several languages available to her, but would really like to present

Thanks your replies, shortly after posting, I found the Hungarian Tourism web
page (http://www.hungary.com/tourinform) which pointed me to a web page with
a whole lot of Hungarian phrases. 
The home page (http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~mmartin/) also has a lot of 
other languages including pointers to Croatian, Serbian etc.

All good stuff!


#  A foolish son is his father's        # Internet:        #
#  ruin, and a quarrelsome wife is      # Garry Collins, Electronics Dev't,#
#  like a constant dripping.            # PEC (New Zealand) Ltd     Marton #
#                        Proverbs 19:13 # New Zealand   Tel +64 6 327 8189 #
+ - millcentenial articles (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Looking for interesting articles related to the 896AD settlement of the 
Magyar Federation whether it is history, archeology, anthropology, music,
art, etc. I have started a Webpage on this topic in preparation for next 
years event. Also would like any information on celebrations planned in 
hungary or throughout the world. Only positive, serious inputs will be 
taken. My webpage is at http://server.snni.com/~fredh if you want to get
a glance at what we have so far. All related material or news is welcome.
Fred Hamori
+ - Blind Spot for Vojvodina (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Don't Help Us Dr. Fencsik

Where have  you been Dr. Fencsik in 1991,  when more than 10,000
 ethnic Hungarians were driven out at gun point from Baranya by 
Krajina Serbs backed by the Yugoslav Army?  Where have you been 
when the Hungarian churches and settlements, dating back to nearly
a millennium, were burned to the ground and their foundations
blasted by explosives to eradicate every trace of Hungarian 
presence in Baranya. The tragedy of Hungarian population of Baranya has not bee
n documented 
up to this date, neither in Hungary, nor in the United States. 
Eminent scholars like you could have contributed a great deal to 
bring this tragedy to the attention of the 
American public.  Speaking out in time against the genocide in Baranya could ha
perhaps prevented the present danger to the survival of ethnic Hungarians in 

What did you do in the wake of the forced and disproportionate 
mobilizations of ethnic Hungarians in Vojvodina , when more than 
40,000 ethnic Hungarians were forced to flee Vojvodina in fear 
of being sent to the front lines. Nearly five years have passed 
and  tens of thousands of mostly young Hungarians  still live in 
refugee camps, or are scattered through the world separated from
their families.  When is the politically right moment  to speak 
out against the mass expulsions?

The representatives of the ethnic Hungarians of Vojvodina have
presented their case to the Helsinki Commission and to the  
government officials in the  United States and Canada, and 
their suggestions and political program  for the survival and 
the future of ethnic Hungarians was deemed  to be in full accord
with the accepted principles of collective rights and self rule 
for ethnic communities in Europe.

Where were you Prof. Fencsik during the  visit of  Mr. Andras 
Agoston to the United States to coach the small group of people who have initia
ted and financed his visit. Did you 
make any inquiries to follow up and report to the Hungarian
Americans on this visit?
The ethnic cleaning  against ethnic Hungarians, and other 
nationalities  in Vojvodina, 
in its present form started in 1991 and as far as I know  only
Prof. Andrew Ludanyi, and Prof Liptak spoke out in the press for 
our cause. Prof. Liptak's present article addresses precisely 
the issue of urgency of our predicament, due to political 
inaction and neglect by the international community --  and your 
further advise to us is to do nothing.  
Thanks for nothing. 

I do not wish to pervade your theoretical arguments in great
details, but please allow me to clarify some  of the main points: 

You write: "I submit that, even if there is unanimous agreement
on the need to protect Hungarian minorities, and everyone wants to 
do the Right Thing, it is not always clear what the Right Thing is.  Issues of 
fact, issues of tactics, issues if timing, and issues of 
presentation are all open to argument." 

If you think that  the issue of the right of an ethnic group to 
exist is open to argument you are condoning  the immense
suffering, the murders of children,  the rapes, the rendering of 
hundreds of thousands of people homeless committed in the name of an 
ill conceived idea of Greater Serbia.

Your quotation of TGM's essay is completely redundant. 
(Am I supposed  to know who TGM is in relation to this subject?)
You ask: "What specific policy is the Op-Ed article urging the USA. to adopt in
 defense of 
the Vojvodina Hungarians?  Are we asking Holbrooke to throw this 
issue into the pot now?  Is this realistic?  Is this possible? Are 
the Serbs to be made to give up something?  In return for what?"

The Hungarians of Vojvodina are already in the pot. By the time 
the dust settles, it will be evident that the ethnic Hungarians in
Vojvodina will be among the main victims of the current Balkan 
conflict. The danger of disappearance of Hungarians  in 
Vojvodina is irreversible, and you are suggesting that this is 
not the right time  to ask Mr. Holbrooke to bring up the  question 
of survival of ethnic Hungarians in Vojvodina.  
The Serbs are not to made to "give up" something. The Serb 
nationalists must be asked to return something. Asking the Serbs 
to stop the genocide against averybody is not taking anything away 
from them. Do you think that the Serbs should be given something
for refraining from genocide? You surely know that nobody has
the right to play God.  To you these considerations might be 
abstract points of speculative strategy and timing,  but for 
many of us, Vojvodina is our homeland where we were born and 
raised as Hungarians. 

The immediate danger faced by the ethnic Hungarians of Vojvodina 
 is not an esoteric topic lectured upon "ex catedra."
 The Hungarian American community has recently demonstrated a 
high level of political conciseness in exercising its political 
will for the benefit of its brethren in Transylvania. The present
initiative by Prof. Liptak serves the same purpose, and it is long
overdue. Whose interest is it  that the plea of  
"Vojvodina Hungarians" does not appear in the national media  
in USA.? 
By using  Prof. Liptak's phrase of "people from the fertile plains"
as  the title to  your article you have added a demeaning and 
cynical edge to ethnic Hungarians in Vojvodina,  
barely stopping short of name calling.

I am a member of the ethnic Hungarian community of  
"people from the fertile plains." As my mother  had  passed away 
this summer in Vojvodina, I had to place my ailing father in a 
nursing home. My 18 year old niece who lives in my parents' house
 tells us on the phone that the Karajina Serbs are involved in a 
shooting across the street for the possession of a Croatian home. 
I suggest to  her to spend the night at the neighbours. 
My father informs me that he has to sleep on the floor in the 
hallway because the beds in the Home are taken up by the Krajina 
I for one want the Serbs to give up something: the bed for my father that I am 
paying for.
The Hungarian and the Croatian homes in Vojvodina are taken by
 force, or allotted to Krajina Serbs without any legal basis. 
At he present times, the United States is pressuring the
government of Hungary to compensate for Jewish  properties  
that were taken away illegally under analogous circumstances 
fifty years ago, while  you  argue vehemently that this is not 
the time to ask Mr. Holbrooke to raise the question 
of driving out human beings from their homes.  
    I visited Vojvodina this summer. I have spoken to Hungarian 
teachers, priests, newspaper editors and political leaders and 
they all conveyed the same message about  
the future prospect of what is left from the indigenous Hungarian 
population of Vojvodina as Prof Liptak's article.  
There is no time for theories, definitions or doctrines.
We do not want to drag anyone into a war for a small community
of 350,000  people. We surely know better. It simple  human decency that compel
s us to act now and speak out in face of injustice.

Prof. Liptak is one of the few American Hungarians who has 
embraced our cause  and  we are ever so grateful to him.
Mr. Fencsik, you obviously chose not to know the predicament of 
Hungarians in Vojvodina. Why do you go  to such extreme length in 
suggesting to do nothing on their behalf.  You go as far as 
suggesting to sacrifice the ethnic Hungarians of Vojvodina for 
the prospect of expedient, but dubious  peace in the region to 
make the United States Government, the UN and NATO look good. 
Coming from a Hungarian American, that hurts. 

With respect,
Peter Kaslik
+ - Re: re:Mongolians (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

And we here on soc.culture.magyar think we have problems!

Charlie Vamossy
+ - AustroHungarian Empire (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Readers of this group have been of help in the past, so I will once again 
request assistance from someone familiar with places in the old 
AustroHungarian Empire.

In the course of searching for my grandfather's origin I have found he was 
born in th AH Empire in 1850.  The US Census records in 1920 
state that his mother tongue was Hungarian.  However, the person taking the 
census add the notation "LC" by the word Hungarian.

Officials at the Census Office tell me that the census takers were told to ask 
where for more specific information if the respondent said they were born in 
the AustroHungarian Empire.  The Census Office suggests that "LC" may relate 
to some locality in what was the AH Empire.

My question:  Is there any locale that would have the initials "LC?"

Thanking you in advance.

David J. Sencer
Atlanta, Georgia, USA

+ - Re: soc.genealogy.slavic - Part 1 - Intro (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Stephen Kymlicka > wrote:
>s.g.slavic  ... the name represents the overwhelming slavic fact of eastern eu
rope and that eastern european genealogy is, in part,=
 a recognition of that fact.
> -------------------------------------------------
John Walker responds:

While I applaud your major intentions I cannot help but mention 
that my impession has been that Poland has almost always wanted 
to be identified with the west and not the east as you are 

The First Polish Republic 1569-1795 was particularly revealing in 
that it was an island of republican democracy surrounded by 
absolutists governments.  Thus, Poland became a vital part in 
sharing  the advancement and survival of Western Civilization.

My best wishes for your venture.

-John Walker