Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 1002
Copyright (C) HIX
1997-05-19
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Letter to Laszlo Solyom - (mind)  61 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: visit to Hungary (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: The Czech republic (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: visit to Hungary (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: visit to Hungary (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: visit to Hungary - correction (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: visit to Hungary (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Letter to Laszlo Solyom (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: visit to Hungary (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Suggestions Re: Cancer and ... (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
16 HL-Action: letter to AL GORE (mind)  97 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Letter to Laszlo Solyom (mind)  46 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Suggestions Re: Cancer and ... (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: visit to Hungary (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:24 AM 5/19/97 -0400, Good Ol' Joe wrote, in response to Gabor Fencsik:

<snipped first part>

>Aw-shucks, Gabor.  You're trying to bring me to tears.  If the 'left' label
>is all they have left, I certainly won't take it away from them, because I
>too believe in self-identification.  However, I hope you won't object if I
>dismiss the Munkaspart as irrelevant, regardless of their label.

Some people think that sentiment would properly apply to any of the parties
who have historically considered themselves *social democratic*, Joe!
That's one reason Tony Blair has firmly staked out the center ground in
Britain.
>
>Joe Szalai

Johanne/Janka

Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 
>
>As with the Christian religion, the worst advertisement for Socialism is
>its adherents.
>        -- George Orwell

 I'll tell Alexa you said that!
+ - Re: Letter to Laszlo Solyom - (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Amos J. Danube wrote:
>
> Friends,
>
>    I agree with both Eva Balogh and Gabor Fencsik that the request
> for a letter campaign to the  Constitutional Court of Hungary must
> be the result of either  ignorance or misplaced zeal.  Either way,
> such a campaing not only will annoy the Constitutional Court, with
> good reason, but may  also discredit the  Hungarian Lobby and Bela
> Liptak. I don't agree with many things the Lobby campaigns for,but
> such a result would be a shame.
>    I have written  the following  in connection  with the proposed
> campaign to the International Court back in February:
>
> >                                          As I have said earlier,
> > such a campaign will result in the  alienation of those domestic
> > and foreign leaders whose help the action was to attain.
> >    I am not deluding myself that  because of my view on the mat-
> > ter the campaign will stop. True believers are seldom swayed.But
> > I would be amiss not to comment on it.
>
>    I have no reason to change my mind,
>                                         Amos
abor Fencsik wrote:
>
> > Tegnap egy kerest postaztam a Kepviselohaz tagjainak a Duna dolgaban
> > (Melleklet) es a cimlista gepelese kozben vettem eszre, hogy Magyarorszagon
 a
> > miniszterek egyben kepviselok is. Ez nekem alapvetoen helytelennek tunik es
> > ezert kerni szeretnem, hogy foglalkozzatok ezzel a kerdessel, ha kiterjed
> > erre az Alkotmanybirosag hataskore.
>
> Is this a joke, or what?  The separation of legislative and executive
> powers is a French invention (originally proposed by Montesquieu) which
> became a cornerstone of the American constitution, but has never found
> universal acceptance.  The Founding Fathers embraced it enthusiastically,
> but most European countries ended up with a parliamentary system where
> Parliament is sovereign, and executive power is formally subordinated
> to it.
>
> Hungary has a parliamentary system -- like Britain, Italy, France, or
> Germany.  In each of these countries members of government are (and in
> some cases are constitutionally required to be) members of parliament.
> The next thing to do is to write to the highest judicial authorities
> in France, Germany, Italy, and Britain, to demand that they convert their
> system forthwith to bring it in compliance with American constitutional
> standards, or else.
>
> -----
> Gabor Fencsik

May 17,23:25:02 :
I do agree with this. My even more serious concern is that such a
correspondence can be misused from interested side to compromise the
Court of Constitution. I think, as a judge I would hate receiving mail
like this.
They ARE under siege and - just as one example - the coalition is
considering to change constitution to the effect, that norm control
requests would be only admitted with the consent of the majority, i.e.
- at least in most cases - the government.
MKH
+ - Re: visit to Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

S or G Farkas wrote:
>
> At 07:42 PM 5/18/97 GMT, Agnes wrote:
>
> >I have just heard this morning in the Hungarian broadcast that tourists
> >are charged incredible prices in hotels and restaurants in Hungary.  Eg.
> >a Danish party of 4 was charged 1,000,000 (one million) forints for a
> >meal - about $1,400.  The racketeering is such that the US embassy issued
> >a list of restaurants and stores where it is safe to it and shop.
>
> It is true, but 1M ft=about $6,000US, not 1,400. These prices are charged by
> only a few racketeers and the list of US Embassy is listing THEM, not the
> others - the honest ones, that I hope would not fit on a list.

Well, according to my experiences in great many cases prices went up,
service and quality down during the last few years.
MKH
+ - Re: The Czech republic (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

E.S. Balogh wrote:
>
>         I just heard via Hungary that the Czech republic is in serious
> economic trouble at the moment. The Czech crown is crumbling, there is a
> government crisis, and western capital is fleeing from the Czech republic.
> So, say the Hungarian critics, Klaus's "painless transition" from
> "socialism" to "capitalism" is a failure.
>         The New York Times--although I like the paper very much--has not
> reported a thing on the Czech republic lately, so we, in this country, are
> not really aware of what's going on at the moment in Prague.

The European press has covered the developments. The import deposit
introduced by Prague - and afterwords by Bratislava - was fiercely
criticized by the EU as a breach of the Association Agreements.
It appears the the popularity of Klaus just collapsed.
MKH

>         A lot of Hungarian economists predicted a sad end to the Czech
> miracle. After all, the Czechs didn't really make fundamental changes in the
> economic structure: the former state companies were simply renamed and
> everything else remained the same. Sooner or later, the critics said, the
> reconing will be unavoidable. According to the latest news, the reconing
> arrived. ESB
+ - Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Fencsik wrote:
>
> Joe Szalai responds to my characterization of the Munkaspart:
>
> >> The Munkaspart is mostly a bunch of nostalgic old fogies, ex-members
> >> of the Workers' Militia, ex-party functionaries, and the like.  They
> >> get together to sing the old songs and reminesce about the good old times.
> >> Actually, they mostly get together at funerals.  They are quite irrelevant
,
> >> but it is hard to describe them as anything but "Left".  Perhaps the
> >> "Stalinist Left" is better, so "progressive leftists" don't take offense.
> >
> > I would call them conservative.  I would have called them conservative when
> > they were in power.  To me, 'left' also implies a political challenge to
> > the existing social structure in order to make it more equitable and more
> > democratic.  The Munkaspart supporters want a return to the past for
> > personal gain.  There's nothing equitable about that, regardless of their
> > rhetoric.
>
> Sorry Joe, that won't fly.  The Munkaspart believes in public ownership
> of the means of production.  Their paper says "Proletarians of the World,
> Unite!" on the masthead, or some such malarkey.  They will quote Marx to
> you at the drop of a hat.  They have their 37-volume edition of Lenin's
> works on their shelves.  They believe in "from each according to his
> abilities, to each according to his needs".  Where I come from, these are
> concepts that are commonly called Left.  Even some "progressive leftists"
> may agree with some of them, I would wager.
>
> More importantly, the Munkaspart identifies itself as Left.  The right
> to self-identification is pretty fundamental.  I have no business
> disputing your right to identify yourself as a " progressive leftist".
> I think you should accord the Munkaspart the same courtesy.  Given that
> having anything to do with "left" is the kiss of death in Hungary,
> electorally speaking, it is actually an act of courage for them to
> wear the label.  I think it would be unfair of you to try to take it
> away from them.  It's all they got, after all.
>

AMEN.
MKH
+ - Re: visit to Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

aheringer wrote:
>
> I have just heard this morning in the Hungarian broadcast that tourists
> are charged incredible prices in hotels and restaurants in Hungary.  Eg.
> a Danish party of 4 was charged 1,000,000 (one million) forints for a
> meal - about $1,400.  The racketeering is such that the US embassy issued
> a list of restaurants and stores where it is safe to it and shop.
>
> Agnes
Isn4t that rather 5800-5900 bucks? BTW, Good morning Hungarian
Broadcast! The topic was handled in the press some days ago and has been
discussed fo days on a Hungaian language list.
Miklos
+ - Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

E.S. Balogh wrote:
>
> At 10:24 AM 5/19/97 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>
> >Yes, some "progressive leftists", including myself, would agree with some
> >of their ideas.  But, so what?  Are these 'old fogies', as you called them,
> >going to start a revolution?  I don't think so.  The most they can hope for
> >now are decent pensions and decent, affordable nursing homes.  At this
> >point in their history, the Munkaspart is more like a religious
> >organization than a political party.
>
>         I think Gabor Fencsik overemphasized the age factor in the
> Munkaspart. My Munkaspart contact (one of the vice presidents of the party)
> is 32 and he claims that the majority of the party belongs to the younger
> generation. I received another letter from a Munkaspart member and he was
> also young. Thus, it seems to me that the membership is getting younger.
>         ESB
Maybe. But thusfar the size of your sample is 2. In words : two.
Although I can imagine that they have young folks two. Not everybody
on the ( progressive? would somebody care to explain me, what
progressive means? )left is a picky as Joe appears to be. ( And even he
is looking out for a revolution ( i.e. bloodshed ).)
MKH
MKH
+ - Re: visit to Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:42 PM 5/18/97 GMT, Agnes wrote:

>I have just heard this morning in the Hungarian broadcast that tourists
>are charged incredible prices in hotels and restaurants in Hungary.  Eg.
>a Danish party of 4 was charged 1,000,000 (one million) forints for a
>meal - about $1,400.  The racketeering is such that the US embassy issued
>a list of restaurants and stores where it is safe to it and shop.

It is true, but 1M ft=about $6,000US, not 1,400. These prices are charged by
only a few racketeers and the list of US Embassy is listing THEM, not the
others - the honest ones, that I hope would not fit on a list.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: visit to Hungary - correction (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
says...
>
>>I have just heard this morning in the Hungarian broadcast that tourists
>>are charged incredible prices in hotels and restaurants in Hungary.
Eg.
>>a Danish party of 4 was charged 1,000,000 (one million) forints for a
>>meal - about $1,400.
>
>One million forints is closer to $5500 US. It is being taken seriously,
the
>people, who had franchised the restaurant's name (Dreher brewery) are
>cancelling the deal. It has been discussed in parlament, etc. Fact is
that
>minor overcharges had been going on for some time- as in other major
cities
>(save in Japan, where charges are high to begin with). Andy.

Sorry.  The $1400 was one steak, so for 4 steaks and wine, etc., they
paid the 1 million forints.

Agnes
+ - Re: visit to Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
says...
>
>aheringer wrote:
>>
>> I have just heard this morning in the Hungarian broadcast that
tourists
>> are charged incredible prices in hotels and restaurants in Hungary.
Eg.
>> a Danish party of 4 was charged 1,000,000 (one million) forints for a
>> meal - about $1,400.  The racketeering is such that the US embassy
issued
>> a list of restaurants and stores where it is safe to it and shop.
>>
>> Agnes
>Isn4t that rather 5800-5900 bucks? BTW, Good morning Hungarian
>Broadcast! The topic was handled in the press some days ago and has been
>discussed fo days on a Hungaian language list.
>Miklos


Which one?  Because I haven't seen it.  And maybe it was discussed in the
German press, but it definitely wasn't in the Canadian.  We only have one
hour a week of Hungarian broadcast here, in Toronto, on Sunday mornings.

Agnes
+ - Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe Szalai > wrote:



Hey you, Joe!,
You are constantly arguing with yourself! (Joe answers
Joe's answer to Joe)
Are you sure that you are OK?
When you start losing arguments, please, see your doctor!
It will get better.
Dominus
+ - Re: Letter to Laszlo Solyom (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Fencsik > wrote:

>So the Lobby appears to be a phantom organization.  A phantom
>organization clearly speaks for no one.

Your argument is only half-true.
A bunch looney letters gives an impression of a company of
loonies.
Dominus
+ - Re: visit to Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

S or G Farkas

Let me ask you: which restaurant are we talking about? Of
the old Karpatia?
Dominus
+ - Re: Suggestions Re: Cancer and ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:32 AM 5/19/97 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>A government serious about the perils of smoking would bad the sale and
>consumption of tobacco.  When we talk about poisons, half measures are not
>enough.

        Obviously, you haven't heard of the fiasco of the American ban on
alcohol. ESB
+ - Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:24 AM 5/19/97 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:

>Yes, some "progressive leftists", including myself, would agree with some
>of their ideas.  But, so what?  Are these 'old fogies', as you called them,
>going to start a revolution?  I don't think so.  The most they can hope for
>now are decent pensions and decent, affordable nursing homes.  At this
>point in their history, the Munkaspart is more like a religious
>organization than a political party.

        I think Gabor Fencsik overemphasized the age factor in the
Munkaspart. My Munkaspart contact (one of the vice presidents of the party)
is 32 and he claims that the majority of the party belongs to the younger
generation. I received another letter from a Munkaspart member and he was
also young. Thus, it seems to me that the membership is getting younger.
        ESB
+ - HL-Action: letter to AL GORE (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
   normal

Background:
  Hungary's position in the Danube lawsuit at the International Court
of Justice in The Hague is very promising. However, even if the court
rules in favour for the environment it is possible that the Slovak
government does not accept the verdict.
  It is important that influential politicians of USA support our
position, since in this case Slovakia probably does not dare to reject
the decision of the court.

What to do:
  Please ask vice president Al Gore to make a statement in favour for
the environment of Szigetkoz. Feel free to use the attached NEW form
letter. Al Gore  will only take notice if he receives thousands of
letters.
      SEND SEVERAL LETTERS A DAY!!! PLEASE DO NOT ONLY SEND
      THEM BY E-MAIL!  Send them even by fax or "priority
      mail".  Below are the fax number, and the priority mail
      addresses you should use.
      In all cases, put the names of both the Vice President
      and one or another of his key aides on the top of the
      fax, or on the envelope address.
key aides:
Executive Assistant to the Vice President: Heather Marabeti
Deputy Chief of Staff:                        David Strauss
Director of Political Affairs:              Karen Elizabeth Skelton

address of key aides as well as of Al Gore:
Room 276, Old Executive Office Building
Washington, DC  20501
fax number: 202-456-7044

e-mail address of Al Gore:


*************************************************************

<date>

The Honorable Al Gore
Vice President of the United States
The White House
Washington, D.C. 20001
(e-mail: )


RE:  First Environmental Lawsuit (Danube) in The Hague


Dear Mr. Vice President,

On the 21st of August, 1993, you wrote to professor Bela Liptak about
your concern for the Danube ecosystem. Today, humankind is approaching
an important precedent: By the end of 1997 the International Court of
Justice will rule on the first international environmental lawsuit in
The Hague.

By this fall the ICJ will decide on this case involving the Danube and
the destruction of its ancient wetland region: the Szigetkoz. This
name, loosely translated, means: "The region of a thousand islands,"
yet today there are no islands left there because the water is gone.
Still, the implications of this case go beyond the future of just one
river or just the 400 endangered species of the only inland-sea delta
of Europe.

This lawsuit will set a precedent for the whole planet and will
answer a much more basic question:  Do national governments have the
right to destroy  the natural treasures of this planet, or does
humankind as a whole have the right to protect them?

Mr. Vice President, in 1995 nine international NGOs have submitted a
memorial to ICJ, which the Court accepted. A Compromise Plan was also
submitted to the Court, which would guarantee the restoration of the
ancient Szigetkoz wetlands, together with fulfilling the water-supply,
shipping, and energy needs of the region. For details of this plan,
information is available at the Web site:
http://www.goodpoint.com/duna.htm or from prof. Liptak.

Dear Mr. Gore. There is little question that in October the ICJ
will order Slovakia to return the Danube into its natural riverbed and
will also order the restoration of the Szigetkoz wetlands. But the ICJ
has no powers to enforce its rulings. It will, therefore, be up to the
international community to force the parties to obey the ruling. Since
this is the first international environmental lawsuit before the ICJ,
the outcome will establish an important precedent. All governments
must understand that there is a price to be paid for being admitted
into the European Community or into NATO. That price must include
respect for international law. A statement by you would guarantee that
the parties understand this. Please make that statement.

Respectfully yours,

<Your name, title and address>
+ - Re: Letter to Laszlo Solyom (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Following up on Dr Liptak's letter to Hungary's constitutional court
requesting the removal of government ministers from Parliament
(and implicitly requesting the abolishment of the parliamentary system
by fiat), Amos J. Danube writes:

>    I agree with both Eva Balogh and Gabor Fencsik that the request
> for a letter campaign to the  Constitutional Court of Hungary must
> be the result of either  ignorance or misplaced zeal.  Either way,
> such a campaing not only will annoy the Constitutional Court, with
> good reason, but may  also discredit the  Hungarian Lobby and Bela
> Liptak. I don't agree with many things the Lobby campaigns for, but
> such a result would be a shame.

How would it discredit the Hungarian Lobby?  How can the Hungarian Lobby
be discredited?  As far as I can gather, the Lobby is a mailing list and
nothing more.  It is not an organization.  It is not incorporated anywhere.
It has no bylaws, no meetings, no budget, no policies, no board of
directors, no authorized spokesmen, no office, no letterhead, no budget,
no membership fees, no annual reports, and no membership rosters.  I am
ready to be corrected if I am mistaken about any of this.

So the Lobby appears to be a phantom organization.  A phantom
organization clearly speaks for no one.  A letter written by a member
of a phantom organization represents the individual views of the
sender, and nothing more.

Having the letters appear daily in the mailboxes of people who never
signed up to the Lobby's mailing list is an annoyance.  It would be far
preferable to have a biweekly notice alerting people to the existence
of the Lobby's list, with instructions on how to subscribe.  But I can
live with that.  Reading the letters themselves, often full of factual
errors and non sequiturs, written mostly in sixth-grade English, is an
embarrassment.  But I am sure most of the recipients have seen worse.

Almost all the Math and Physics departments at better universities are
subjected to a constant deluge of letters from inventors and crank
scientists.  Thick envelopes arrive all the time, full of revolutionary
breakthroughs in squaring the circle, new proofs of Fermat's last theorem
(or disquisitions on the the errors in Wiles' proof), cold fusion
discoveries, and perpetual motion schemes.  At Columbia they tell them
to get in touch with NYU.  The good folks at NYU retaliate in kind.
But nobody has yet figured out how to stop the flood.  As Amos said,
true believers are seldom swayed.

-----
Gabor Fencsik
+ - Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe Szalai responds to my characterization of the Munkaspart:

>> The Munkaspart is mostly a bunch of nostalgic old fogies, ex-members
>> of the Workers' Militia, ex-party functionaries, and the like.  They
>> get together to sing the old songs and reminesce about the good old times.
>> Actually, they mostly get together at funerals.  They are quite irrelevant,
>> but it is hard to describe them as anything but "Left".  Perhaps the
>> "Stalinist Left" is better, so "progressive leftists" don't take offense.
>
> I would call them conservative.  I would have called them conservative when
> they were in power.  To me, 'left' also implies a political challenge to
> the existing social structure in order to make it more equitable and more
> democratic.  The Munkaspart supporters want a return to the past for
> personal gain.  There's nothing equitable about that, regardless of their
> rhetoric.

Sorry Joe, that won't fly.  The Munkaspart believes in public ownership
of the means of production.  Their paper says "Proletarians of the World,
Unite!" on the masthead, or some such malarkey.  They will quote Marx to
you at the drop of a hat.  They have their 37-volume edition of Lenin's
works on their shelves.  They believe in "from each according to his
abilities, to each according to his needs".  Where I come from, these are
concepts that are commonly called Left.  Even some "progressive leftists"
may agree with some of them, I would wager.

More importantly, the Munkaspart identifies itself as Left.  The right
to self-identification is pretty fundamental.  I have no business
disputing your right to identify yourself as a " progressive leftist".
I think you should accord the Munkaspart the same courtesy.  Given that
having anything to do with "left" is the kiss of death in Hungary,
electorally speaking, it is actually an act of courage for them to
wear the label.  I think it would be unfair of you to try to take it
away from them.  It's all they got, after all.

-----
Gabor Fencsik
+ - Re: Who's Left in Hungary? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 12:45 AM 5/19/97 -0700, Gabor Fencsik wrote:

>Sorry Joe, that won't fly.  The Munkaspart believes in public ownership
>of the means of production.  Their paper says "Proletarians of the World,
>Unite!" on the masthead, or some such malarkey.  They will quote Marx to
>you at the drop of a hat.  They have their 37-volume edition of Lenin's
>works on their shelves.  They believe in "from each according to his
>abilities, to each according to his needs".  Where I come from, these are
>concepts that are commonly called Left.  Even some "progressive leftists"
>may agree with some of them, I would wager.

Yes, some "progressive leftists", including myself, would agree with some
of their ideas.  But, so what?  Are these 'old fogies', as you called them,
going to start a revolution?  I don't think so.  The most they can hope for
now are decent pensions and decent, affordable nursing homes.  At this
point in their history, the Munkaspart is more like a religious
organization than a political party.

>More importantly, the Munkaspart identifies itself as Left.  The right
>to self-identification is pretty fundamental.  I have no business
>disputing your right to identify yourself as a " progressive leftist".
>I think you should accord the Munkaspart the same courtesy.  Given that
>having anything to do with "left" is the kiss of death in Hungary,
>electorally speaking, it is actually an act of courage for them to
>wear the label.  I think it would be unfair of you to try to take it
>away from them.  It's all they got, after all.

Aw-shucks, Gabor.  You're trying to bring me to tears.  If the 'left' label
is all they have left, I certainly won't take it away from them, because I
too believe in self-identification.  However, I hope you won't object if I
dismiss the Munkaspart as irrelevant, regardless of their label.

Joe Szalai

As with the Christian religion, the worst advertisement for Socialism is
its adherents.
        -- George Orwell
+ - Re: Suggestions Re: Cancer and ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:11 AM 5/18/97 -0400, Eva Balogh wrote:

>I am no expert on Hungarin tobacco advertising in the past but even
>if it were true that laws on cigarette advertising were stricter in the
>good old Kadar-regime than it is today in the United States, such strict
>laws didn't do any good. None whatsoever. Because it is not enough to ban
>advertising of cigarettes. A government serious about the perils of
>smoking must do a little more: like launching an anti-smoking campaign.

A government serious about the perils of smoking would bad the sale and
consumption of tobacco.  When we talk about poisons, half measures are not
enough.

Joe Szalai

There's nothing quite like tobacco: it's the passion of decent folk, and
whoever lives without tobacco doesn't deserve to live.
          -- Moliere
+ - Re: visit to Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>I have just heard this morning in the Hungarian broadcast that tourists
>are charged incredible prices in hotels and restaurants in Hungary.  Eg.
>a Danish party of 4 was charged 1,000,000 (one million) forints for a
>meal - about $1,400.

One million forints is closer to $5500 US. It is being taken seriously, the
people, who had franchised the restaurant's name (Dreher brewery) are
cancelling the deal. It has been discussed in parlament, etc. Fact is that
minor overcharges had been going on for some time- as in other major cities
(save in Japan, where charges are high to begin with). Andy.

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