Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 942
Copyright (C) HIX
1997-03-15
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 the 7 magyar tribes (megkovetlek, Istvan) (mind)  41 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Anglo-Saxons (mind)  65 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: the 7 magyar tribes (megkovetlek, Istvan) (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: the 7 magyar tribes (megkovetlek, Istvan) (mind)  60 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
7 Hungarian Coalition (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
8 Hungarian Coalition (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Anglo-Saxons (mind)  33 sor     (cikkei)
10 March 15 (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: March 15 (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
15 The CD can be thrown out (mind)  99 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: March 15 (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)

+ - the 7 magyar tribes (megkovetlek, Istvan) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

OK. It,s difficult, the posting is not up anymore on this
server. Somebody asked about the 7 tribes, OR the 7 chiefs
of the magyars who led them to settle Hungary.
I wrote to confirm Agi H., that the 7 chieftans were:
A'rpa'd, Elo"d, Ond, Kond, Tass, Huba, To:ho:to:m.
We contradicted Istvan L., saying: that's how we learned in
elementary school, in or around 1942 (only I, Agi, of
course, much-much later ;-)
Since I consulted "A Magyarok kronikaja" (Thuroczy Janos)
and Homan-Szegfu's : "Magyar Tortenet".
Ecce:

According to H.-Sz., the seven tribes were (and, I believe,
that was the original question): Nye'k, Megyer,
Ku:rtgyarmat, Tarjan, Jeno", Ke'r and Keszi.
H.-Sz. also provides us with the names of seven elected
Leutenants (hadnagyok tanacsa) as follows:
A'rpa'd 's      father  A'lmos
Szabolcs           ''   Elo"d
Korca'n            ''   Kende
Ete                ''   Ond
Horka              ''   Te'te'ny
Le'l               ''   Tass
-no name stands here-   Huba

Thuroczy's Kronika on the other hand provides us the names
of the seven Kapitan'y who came in to settle the land:
A'rpa'd, Szabolcs, Gyula, Ku:nd, Le'l, Ve'rbulcsu, and O:rs.


Whether I lessened the confusion or caused it to grow, I
don't know. Can somebody clarify?

Thanks!
Dominus

P.s.:  But why the historians are so quiet? They are not
required to opine, or judge; no whys or whatnots - only
seven names they remember. If memorybanks are empty, fine.
No dares, no comments from either sides.
Thanks. D.v.
+ - Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At long last some facts are being injected into this discussion. I am starting 
to find it really interesting because it is moving away from individual percept
ions to a comparison of data. Increasingly what I see emerging is that there is
 no one best system but all of them have advantages and costs. I will try to di
g up similar data for the Australian health system.

Regards
Dénes 



----------
From:  E.S. Balogh[SMTP:]
Sent:  Saturday, 15 March 1997 0:17
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  Re: Health Care and the GDP

        I would like to state right here at the beginning (and this is not
the first time that I am stating it) that I am not in favor of the current
American health-care system. However, trained as an academic, I have a
compulsion to arrive at the truth.
        The fact is that the Canadian health-care system is far from perfect
and costs about the same as the American; that is, about 13 percent of the
GDP. Joe's figures are seven years old and since then health-care costs in
Canada went up considerably. The last I heard (and unfortunately I just
heard it on National Public Radio and therefore I can't reproduce it. You
just have to believe me.) that Canada just surpassed the United States in
health expenditures (percentage of GDP/person).
        And by the way, my good friend from Germany promised me a more
detailed description of the German situation. I will let you know.
        In any case, what I am driving at is that I am coming to the
conclusion that health care is one of the thorniest problems of late
twentieth-century life. Yes, we can tinker with it but even the so-called
perfect systems turn out to be less than perfect and inordinately expensive.
        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Anglo-Saxons (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I agree with the statement that many of the fighting men had no problems with f
ighting for Britain. Similarly Wilson was probably pro British. If however you 
look at the vocal levels of society particularly in the great cities of Boston,
 New York and Chicago it seems to me that the civic leaders were Irish, or more
 usually of Irish descent but brought up on anti Irish stories. After all many 
were descendants of migrants forced out of Ireland by the potato famine which i
n turn was in many minds blamed on the British.
In the case of WW II I am familiar with Lend Lease but not with the details of 
it. At the same time before Roosewelt brought it in Britain had to pay for all 
war materiel in cash and therefore in gold.  

Regards
Dénes 



----------
From:  Sam Stowe[SMTP:]
Sent:  Saturday, 15 March 1997 3:12
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  Re: Anglo-Saxons

In article >, Denes BOGSANYI
> writes:

>Subject:       Re: Anglo-Saxons
>From:  Denes BOGSANYI >
>Date:  Thu, 13 Mar 1997 20:16:14 +1000
>
>With regard to WWI we have to consider that the political leaders were =
>pro British while a large proportion of the population being Irish were =
>livid at doing anything to help them. It needed sustained propaganda for =
>which the Germans supplied incidents such as the Lusitania for these to =
>come around.

Your grasp of turn-of-the-century demographics in the U.S. is less than
breath-taking. The proportion of Irish in the U.S. population was most likely
less than that of Americans with English, African and German roots. Ever seen
that great movie with Jimmy Cagney called "The Fighting 69th"? Many of the men
in that regiment were first and second-generation Irish and they had no problem
fighting for the U.S. against the Germans. Woodrow Wilson was no more
pro-British than most presidents who had immediately pr

>In the case of WW II the situation is much more murky. Germany was an =
>ally of Russia while it suited her to attack and conquer France in =
>particular. The USA stood by and made sure every last bolt was paid for =
>by the British in gold. Only when she had been stripped of her assets =
>did the USA send considerable manpower to Europe.

Bullshit. Ever hear of the Lend-Lease Program? We gave the British ships and
other war material well in advance of ever entering the war and Roosevelt
caught hell from Republican isolationists who accused him of: a) trying to get
us involved in the war when we ought to stay neutral and b)giving millions of
dollars in war material to Britain and getting nothing in return. We were even
providing active anti-submarine coverage for British shipping off the East
Coast of the U.S. well in advance of December, 194
Sam Stowe





"Come on and do what you did;
Roll me under New Madrid..."
-- Uncle Tupelo
+ - Re: the 7 magyar tribes (megkovetlek, Istvan) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Thanks for the details. This is the type of stuff I find most interesting.

Doug Holmes


At 23:40 14-03-1997 GMT, you wrote:
>OK. It,s difficult, the posting is not up anymore on this
>server. Somebody asked about the 7 tribes, OR the 7 chiefs
>of the magyars who led them to settle Hungary.
>I wrote to confirm Agi H., that the 7 chieftans were:
>A'rpa'd, Elo"d, Ond, Kond, Tass, Huba, To:ho:to:m.

>
>Thanks!
>Dominus

   ================================================================
Doug da Rocha Holmes            | Doug Holmes - Director
------------------------------- | Hungarian/American Friendship Society
Specialist in Azorean Genealogy | Website: www.dholmes.com/hafs.html
Website: www.dholmes.com        | (Specializing in Hungarian & Slovak genealogy
)
   ================================================================
+ - Re: the 7 magyar tribes (megkovetlek, Istvan) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

What this seems to suggest is that these names were written down about two hund
red years later based on unwritten tradition. "Everybody" knew these names so t
here was no need to write them down at the time. It is not clear that there wer
e only seven tribes and their chiefs. Seven being a "perfect" number at the tim
e these traditions were written down, therefore seven tribes were recorded.
My understanding is that there were probably other tribes or clans who entered 
the area east and south of the Carpathians and settled there.

Regards
Dénes 



----------
From:  Dominus[SMTP:]
Sent:  Saturday, 15 March 1997 9:41
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  the 7 magyar tribes (megkovetlek, Istvan)

OK. It,s difficult, the posting is not up anymore on this
server. Somebody asked about the 7 tribes, OR the 7 chiefs
of the magyars who led them to settle Hungary.
I wrote to confirm Agi H., that the 7 chieftans were:
A'rpa'd, Elo"d, Ond, Kond, Tass, Huba, To:ho:to:m.
We contradicted Istvan L., saying: that's how we learned in
elementary school, in or around 1942 (only I, Agi, of
course, much-much later ;-)
Since I consulted "A Magyarok kronikaja" (Thuroczy Janos)
and Homan-Szegfu's : "Magyar Tortenet".
Ecce:

According to H.-Sz., the seven tribes were (and, I believe,
that was the original question): Nye'k, Megyer,
Ku:rtgyarmat, Tarjan, Jeno", Ke'r and Keszi.
H.-Sz. also provides us with the names of seven elected
Leutenants (hadnagyok tanacsa) as follows:
A'rpa'd 's      father  A'lmos
Szabolcs           ''   Elo"d
Korca'n            ''   Kende
Ete                ''   Ond
Horka              ''   Te'te'ny
Le'l               ''   Tass
-no name stands here-   Huba

Thuroczy's Kronika on the other hand provides us the names
of the seven Kapitan'y who came in to settle the land:
A'rpa'd, Szabolcs, Gyula, Ku:nd, Le'l, Ve'rbulcsu, and O:rs.


Whether I lessened the confusion or caused it to grow, I
don't know. Can somebody clarify?

Thanks!
Dominus

P.s.:  But why the historians are so quiet? They are not
required to opine, or judge; no whys or whatnots - only
seven names they remember. If memorybanks are empty, fine.
No dares, no comments from either sides.
Thanks. D.v.
+ - Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:02 AM 3/15/97 +1000, Denes Bogsanyi wrote:

>At long last some facts are being injected into this discussion. I am
>starting to find it really interesting because it is moving away from
>individual perceptions to a comparison of data. Increasingly what I see
>emerging is that there is no one best system but all of them have
>advantages and costs. I will try to dig up similar data for the
>Australian health system.

If all systems have costs and advantages, what is the advantage of the
American system?  Their system is the most expensive per capita, as a
percentage of the GDP, and 40 million aren't insured.  I'm sorry, but I
don't see any advantages - except for wealthy doctors, surgeons, lawyers and
insurance companies.

Joe Szalai

Insurance. An ingenious modern game of chance in which the player is
permitted to enjoy the comfortable conviction that he is beating the man who
keeps the table.
          - Ambrose Bierce
+ - Hungarian Coalition (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues,

1) Young people can apply for White House internship for the fall of 1997 at
the Hungarian Coalition office (Tel: 202-296-9505, Fax: 202-775-5175). In the
past, my son was an intern with Senator Dodd and my godson Tamas Bollyky at
the White House. They both have found the experience interesting, the
contacts they made, useful. If you want to contact Tamas, he can be rached
through: 

2) Those who are working on broadening our cooperation with the Romanian
Lobby into a wider Central European Lobby could benefit from the advice of
Frank Koszorus, who is  the Hungarian Coalition representative in the Central
and East European Coalition (CEEC). Phone/fax as above.

3) The prestigious "Nationalities Papers" has devoted a 216 page full issue
(5 maps, 14 tables) to the Hungarian minorities under the editorship of prof.
Andrew Ludanyi. No American scholarly journal ever did that, since Trianon.
You can order this document at the Coalition (fax/phone above) and can thank
Dr. Ludanyi for a marvelous effort at: 

Best regards: Bela Liptak
+ - Hungarian Coalition (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues,

1) Young people can apply for White House internship for the fall of 1997 at
the Hungarian Coalition office (Tel: 202-296-9505, Fax: 202-775-5175). In the
past, my son was an intern with Senator Dodd and my godson Tamas Bollyky at
the White House. They both have found the experience interesting, the
contacts they made, useful. If you want to contact Tamas, he can be rached
through: 

2) Those who are working on broadening our cooperation with the Romanian
Lobby into a wider Central European Lobby could benefit from the advice of
Frank Koszorus, who is  the Hungarian Coalition representative in the Central
and East European Coalition (CEEC). Phone/fax as above.

3) The prestigious "Nationalities Papers" has devoted a 216 page full issue
(5 maps, 14 tables) to the Hungarian minorities under the editorship of prof.
Andrew Ludanyi. No American scholarly journal ever did that, since Trianon.
You can order this document at the Coalition (fax/phone above) and can thank
Dr. Ludanyi for a marvelous effort at: 

Best regards: Bela Liptak
+ - Re: Anglo-Saxons (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

S.Stowe wrote:

>that great movie with Jimmy Cagney called "The Fighting 69th"? Many of the men
>in that regiment were first and second-generation Irish and they had no proble
m
>fighting for the U.S. against the Germans.

And most probably they would not have any problem to fight for the US against
England, either. You just had to ask the right persons.

>Bullshit. Ever hear of the Lend-Lease Program? We gave the British ships and
>other war material well in advance of ever entering the war

and D.Bogsanyi wrote:

>In the case of WW II I am familiar with Lend Lease but not with the details of
 >it. At the same time before Roosewelt brought it in Britain had to pay for al
l
 >war materiel in cash and therefore in gold.

Or with strategic positions. As far as I know the British bought once a hundred
 or so old destroyer for some naval bases (I don't remember which ones but I
think they were in the North-Atlantic).

>dollars in war material to Britain and getting nothing in return. We were even
>providing active anti-submarine coverage for British shipping off the East
>Coast of the U.S. well in advance of December, 194

Interesting, can you tell than why it was an outrageous barbarism when the USS
Reuben James was sunk by a German submarine? Did anyone ask what the destroyer
was doing in the middle of a British convoy?

J.Zs
+ - March 15 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Victor Ciorbea, the Romanian Prime Minister sent a message of
congratulations to the Hungarian citizens of Romania on the occasion of
March 15. Among other things he says: " For our Hungarian brothers March 15
signifies freedom, courage and freedom..." and " As members of the family of
Romanian citizens, it is natural to honor and to celebrate each other's
holidays." "Dear Hungarian citizens, I wish you a joyous March15."

Gabor D. Farkas

P. S. The full text is published in the March 13 issue of the Kolozsvar/Cluj
daily Szabadsag (http://www.hhrf.org/szabadsag/7mar-13t.htm).
+ - Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Denes BOGSANYI
> writes:

>At long last some facts are being injected into this discussion. I am =
>starting to find it really interesting because it is moving away from =
>individual perceptions to a comparison of data. Increasingly what I see =
>emerging is that there is no one best system but all of them have =
>advantages and costs. I will try to dig up similar data for the =
>Australian health system.

I agree with you, Denes. It would be interesting to see some comparable figures
from other European nations like Italy, Germany, Sweden, etc. And what about
the Japanese health system?
Sam Stowe


"Come on and do what you did;
Roll me under New Madrid..."
-- Uncle Tupelo
+ - Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:

>If all systems have costs and advantages, what is the advantage of the
>American system?  Their system is the most expensive per capita, as a
>percentage of the GDP, and 40 million aren't insured.  I'm sorry, but I
>don't see any advantages - except for wealthy doctors, surgeons, lawyers and
>insurance companies.
>
>Joe Szalai

Joe, what happened to all your boasting about how the Canadian system was so
much better because it covered everyone, unlike the American system? Did you,
by any chance, see the coverage figures in the data posted? Did the fact that
Canada's coverage percentage was listed as 99% and the U.S. percentage was
rated 100% have anything to do with the fact that you have now shifted your
focus of comparison and nationalist braggadocio to percentages of Gross
Domestic Product?
Sam Stowe


"Come on and do what you did;
Roll me under New Madrid..."
-- Uncle Tupelo
+ - Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:

>You are sooo stubborn, Eva.  Because the numbers for your argument don't
>exist, you pull the academic card.  From here on, you want to impress upon
>the readers and me that, statistics and numbers aside, you are driven to
>arrive at the truth because of 'training'.  And, if I am to follow your
>logic, because I don't have this training, I'm not as seriously interested
>in arriving at the truth.  It's strange, but you remind me of a priest, a
>mufti.

And this from a man whose rhetorical attack on the U.S. medical system, until
some real numbers were posted on here, consisted of sneering that it didn't
provide universal coverage like Canada's. Nice to see that when your argument
goes up the spout, you have no problems with shifting it to other bases and
carrying on hammer and tongs.
Sam Stowe

P.S. -- Has George Orwell's "1984" been published in a Hungarian edition? If it
has, will someone please forward a copy to Joe?


"Come on and do what you did;
Roll me under New Madrid..."
-- Uncle Tupelo
+ - Re: March 15 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 06:10 PM 3/15/97 -0500, Gabor Farkas wrote:
>Victor Ciorbea, the Romanian Prime Minister sent a message of
>congratulations to the Hungarian citizens of Romania on the occasion of
>March 15. Among other things he says: " For our Hungarian brothers March 15
>signifies freedom, courage and freedom..." and " As members of the family of
>Romanian citizens, it is natural to honor and to celebrate each other's
>holidays." "Dear Hungarian citizens, I wish you a joyous March15."

        Things are really looking up in Romania!! I can't tell you how happy
this makes me because I have been for the longest time for a
Romanian-Hungarian reconciliation. Ever since I studied post-World War I
Hungarian diplomatic history I have become convinced that the post-World War
I governments should have followed a pro-Romanian policy. It made so much
sense. So much more than a pro-Czechoslovak (the liberals, Karolyi) or the
pro-Yugoslav (Horthy and co.) while the main enemy was considered to be
Romania. It made no sense. The largest Hungarian minority lived in Romania;
the Romanians, like the Hungarians, are not Slavs, there was interest on
part of Romania, and one could go on and on. And yet, Hungarian government
after Hungarian government pursued an anti-Romanian policy. It made no
sense. And, by the way, I am going to write a letter to Madelaine Albright
concerning Romania's admission to NATO. (Although I have my doubts that
Romania will be admitted this time around. Too bad that this change of
regime didn't come two or three years ago. Then, today Romania would have a
much greater chance.)

        I am really very, very pleased. This is the way to go.
        Eva Balogh
+ - The CD can be thrown out (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

"A CD eldobhato" wrote my friend from Germany. Further in Hungarian:

>A statisztikai CD-t kidobhatja az illeto, ha a kisujjabol szopta  
>volna, pontosabb lenne a dolog. Megneztem a Szovetsegi Statisztikai  
>Hivatal 1997 februarban kiadott adatait az Interneten (Te is barmikor  
>elered, angolul is van), amik 1994-rol szolnak. A CD alkotoinak is  
>ezekre a szamokra kellene tamaszkodniuk, mert ezek a hivatalosak  
>Nemetorszagban. (Csak egy es kozponti statisztikai hivatal van!)
>Ezekszerint 1994-ben majdnem 470 milliard markat adtak ki az  
>egeszsegugyre,,ami 5,4 %-os novekedest jelent 1993-hoz kepest es a
>bruttoszocialprodukt 10,8%-a!!!!!!   Lakosonkent ez 5759 DM atlagos  
>kiadast jelent!  Ennyit a kalandos eredetu statisztikai CD-krol.
>En a 8%-al a nyolcvanas evek adataira emlekeztem, azota 10,8%, de  
>semmikeppen sem 18!

        Upshot: the German statistics are not right.


And here is the German Statistical Office's official word.

        Best to all, Eva


>Statistisches Bundesamt
>
>
>
>Mitteilung für die Presse
>
>
>
>18. Februar 1997 
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>1994 fast 470 Mrd. DM für die Gesundheit ausgegeben 
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Nach Mitteilung des Statistischen Bundesamtes wurden im Jahr 1994 in
Deutschland insgesamt 469,6 Mrd. DM für die Gesundheit ausgegeben, 5,4
Prozent mehr als 1993. Bezogen auf das Bruttosozialprodukt ergab sich ein
Anteil der Gesundheitsaufwendungen von 10,8 Prozent. Je Einwohner errechnete
sich ein Durchschnittsbetrag von 5 759 DM. 
>
>
>
>Auf die medizinische Behandlung entfielen 274,7 Mrd. DM bzw. 58,5 Prozent
der Gesamtausgaben. Davon wurden 117,1 Mrd. DM für die stationäre Behandlung
in Krankenhäusern, Hochschulkliniken und Kureinrichtungen, 83,0 Mrd. DM für
die ambulante Behandlung durch Ärzte und Zahnärzte, 59,4 Mrd. DM für
Arzneien-, Heil- und Hilfsmittel sowie 15,1 Mrd. DM für den Zahnersatz
aufgewendet. 
>
>
>
>129,1 Mrd. DM oder 27,5 Prozent der Gesundheitsausgaben beanspruchten die
Krankheitsfolgeleistungen. Hierzu zählen insbesondere die Entgeltfortzahlung
bei Krankheit und Mutterschaft, die Rentenzahlungen bei Berufs- und
Erwerbsunfähigkeit sowie die Maßnahmen zur beruflichen und sozialen
Rehabilitation. 
>
>
>
>Für vorbeugende und betreuende Maßnahmen inklusive Pflegeleistungen waren
34,8 Mrd. DM (7,4 Prozent) erforderlich, die Kosten der Ausbildung von
medizinischem Personal und der Gesundheitsforschung beliefen sich auf 8,2
Mrd. DM (1,7 Prozent). 22,7 Mrd. DM oder 4,8 Prozent aller Ausgaben
entfielen auf den Verwaltungsaufwand der Versicherungsträger. 
>
>
>
>Mit 225,0 Mrd. DM finanzierte die gesetzliche Krankenversicherung knapp die
Hälfte (47,9 Prozent) aller Ausgaben für Gesundheit, 69,1 Mrd. DM (14,7
Prozent) trugen die öffentlichen und privaten Arbeitgeber und 63,0 Mrd. DM
(13,4 Prozent) die öffentlichen Haushalte bei. Die Träger der
Rentenversicherung beteiligten sich mit 35,9 Mrd. DM (7,7 Prozent), die
private Krankenversicherung mit 24,8 Mrd. DM (5,3 Prozent) und die
gesetzliche Unfallversicherung mit 15,4 Mrd. DM (3,3 Prozent) an den
Gesamtaufwendungen. Neben ihren Beiträgen zur gesetzlichen und privaten
Krankenversicherung gaben die privaten Haushalte 1994 36,3 Mrd. DM (7,7
Prozent) direkt für ihre Gesundheit aus. 
>
>
>
>Weitere Informationen über Struktur und Entwicklung der Ausgaben im
Gesundheitsbereich enthält ein Beitrag in Heft 2/1997 von "Wirtschaft und
Statistik". 
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Bei Rückfragen bitte Telefon: (0611) 75-4160 oder -4167. 
>
+ - Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 06:05 PM 3/15/97 GMT, Sam Stowe, out of sheer desperation, wrote:

<snip>
>Joe, what happened to all your boasting about how the Canadian system was so
>much better because it covered everyone, unlike the American system? Did
>you, by any chance, see the coverage figures in the data posted? Did the
>fact that Canada's coverage percentage was listed as 99% and the U.S.
>percentage was rated 100% have anything to do with the fact that you have
>now shifted your focus of comparison and nationalist braggadocio to
>percentages of Gross Domestic Product?

Not only did I see the 99% coverage figure, I also mentioned it.  And did
you see the post where I quoted from a 'Statistics Canada' book where it
said: "The Canadian health care system is based on five principles
legislated in the federal Canada Health Act: public administration,
comprehensiveness, universality, portability and accessibility."

Tell you what Sam.  Find me a Canadian who has ever been denied health care
in Canada.  You can even recruit that journalistic icon, the one American
who isn't affraid to ask the really tough questions, Barbara Walters, to go
across Canada looking for that one per cent who aren't covered.  I'll give
you a head start by asking everyone on this list, and those who read this
list, and live in Canada, if you have ever been denied health care or if
they know of anyone who has.  If you do, please respond to the list.

Joe Szalai

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Wayne Bell

http://library.uwaterloo.ca:80/~jgszalai/WAYNE.HTM
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+ - Re: Health Care and the GDP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 06:05 PM 3/15/97 GMT, Sam Stowe wrote:

<snip>
>P.S. -- Has George Orwell's "1984" been published in a Hungarian edition?
>If it has, will someone please forward a copy to Joe?

"Animal Farm" and "1984" were among the first books to be translanted into
Hungarian after the fall of the old system.  Now, if people would just read
them.

Joe Szalai
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Wayne Bell

http://library.uwaterloo.ca:80/~jgszalai/WAYNE.HTM
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+ - Re: March 15 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:37 PM 3/15/97 -0500, Eva Balogh wrote:

<snip>
>        Things are really looking up in Romania!! I can't tell you how happy
>this makes me because I have been for the longest time for a
>Romanian-Hungarian reconciliation.

<snip>
>The largest Hungarian minority lived in Romania;
>the Romanians, like the Hungarians, are not Slavs, there was interest on
>part of Romania, and one could go on and on.

<snip>
>        I am really very, very pleased. This is the way to go.

I agree with Eva Balogh.  I too was very pleased to read Gabor's quote.

I wonder if something could be gained by having a pan-European federation,
or council, or whatever, of people who don't belong to the large linguistic
and cultural groups.  I'm thinking of the Hungarians, Romanians, Basques,
Lapps, etc., supporting each other to make sure everyone survives in the new
Europe.

Joe Szalai
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Wayne Bell

http://library.uwaterloo.ca:80/~jgszalai/WAYNE.HTM
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