Liviu Iordache ) wrote:
:  (Cours 6412) wrote:

: >But are you sure that all the books that dismiss the daco-roman continuity
: >did not used Austro-Hungarian sources ?

: Actually, most of them use Romanian primary sources. Moreover, in
: matters of politics the Austrians often  used the Romanians as a
: counterweight against the Hungarian centrifugal tendency. The Uniate
: Church and  "Scoala Ardeleana" are relevant examples for supporting
: this claim. So, why suspect the Austrians of pro-Hungarian bias?

No doubt that austrians used romanians against hungarians in a few 
occasions but the main interest for austrians as for hungarians was
to perpetuate their empires. And they succeded quite well in supporting
each other during the days of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
In the same way they had a common interest in mutually supporting and 
justifying their "conquests" by historical means.


: >Yes, the myths could not coincide with the truth. Especially when they
: >are artificially imposed. But when they are genuine (for instance when you
: >can find traces of it in folklore) they must tell something.

: Unfortunately, no genuine popular tradition points toward our Dacian
: heritage. At least this was C.Daicoviciu's opinion. 

From my understanding there aren't many thing known about Dacians traditions
or language. But one of the few things known was that they considered the
birth of a child as un unhappy event (because they considered he will
have to face many sufferings) while considering the death of person as some
kind of "happy" event. Isn't any connection with these beliefs and the
well known "cheerful cemetary" of Sapinta (a village in Maramures, 
Northern Transylvania) ?
Also the well known "Miorita" ballade doesn't evoque a kind of relaxed
contemplation of death ?
I would also like to mention the very peculiar place that "mother nature"
occupies in almost every piece of folklore ? 
I didn't noticed the same attitude toward nature in other cultures 
(like italian, french or english). Woods, mountains, animals and plants
are saw as living, friendly entities. Isn't the classic romanian saying
"codrul e frate cu romanul" (forrest is romanian's brother) some kind
of cultural reminescence of times when romanians were seeking shelter
in woods and mountains ?


: Liviu Iordache

Cristian Alb

In article >,
    () wrote:
>In article >, Frank J. Straka > wrote:
>> I will always
>>be proud of my Hungarian heritage, even though I'm not a pure blooded
>>Magyar ( I'm part Magyar, part Moravian). At any rate enough said.
>>Any one else have any comments??
>>
>Right on, Frankie!  Attaboy! ;-)
>
>Joe
I do where are the Hungarian teenagers?  For some reason they are nowhere.
Its impossible to find them.. May be they don't even excist who knows.. It 
looks like i am alone.. Maybe not from Hungary but Toronto.
Can the Hungarian users use this?

Can someone tell me where are the Hungarian teenagers?
	To me it looks like that they don't excist..
	Ha kell irok magyarul is csak segitsenek..
				Please..

Thank you.
Sandor Olah

Liviu Iordache ) wrote:
:  (George Szaszvari) wrote:

: >>>A romanian peasant from Transilvania once told me the following joke.
: >>[bad-Hungarian vs. maverick-Romanian joke deleted]
: >>
: >>You want a recipe for Hungarian "goulash." Here it goes:
: >>First, one must steal two chickens....:-)

: >Why do you feel the need to stoop to quoting anti-Hungarian jibes? 

: >You 
: >post the one about the Hungarian who said *let's kill him and steal...* 
: >story as though this sums up the Hungarian mentality,

: Actually, it wasn't my positing, and I didn't like it also [my summary
: is self-explanatory]. Anyhow, I think you haven't followed too closely
: this thread. 

I posted that joke in a specific context and not for his "joke" value.
I don't find it funny either. It's not rewarding to romanians either.
The context in wich I cited it was a discussion about "greed" and seeking
power. I just wanted to point out a cultural difference in the hungarian
and romanian mentality. That is that the hungarian pattern is more inclined
to agressivness. I thought thas this patterns wich is 
indeniably related to the warrior mentality was acknowledged by hungarians
themself. I made this assumption considering the cult that hungarians
have for Attila. No irony intended !

  I appologize if have offended any one, it wasn't my intention.
I didn't want to suggest that hungarians are "killers" or inclined
to such acts.

Cristian Alb

Jorma Kyppo > wrote:
> I just posted an article "Language laws..". The
> following funny isomorphism might be nice to read as
> background:
> What is this country? Who are these people?
> (the answer is in follow-up)

The Answer:

is Slovakia *and* Finland:

1. Finnish name for Finland is "Suomi"
4. Water route is both Donau (Dunaj) and Finnish Gulf.
6. The other capital is both Vienna and Tallin.
7. Northern part is both High Tatras and Lappland.
8. The invaders were both Magyars (10th century)
   and Swedes (11th - 13th century).
10. The great imperium were both Austria and Russia.
11. After WW I Finland and Czechoslovakia became independent.
13. In Winter War 1939, Finland was alone against Soviet Union.
    After 100 days heavy fighting Stalin had to give up.
    Later Finland started co-operation with Germany (only one
    who really wanted to give help). When peace was made after
    war with SU there were in Lappland still German troops, which
    had to leave the country. Because of reasons, that are easy
    to understand, Finland didn't want soviet soldiers in Finland,
    she had to start fighting still against Germans in Lappland.
    In Slovakia there were formed an independent Slovakia by Tiso
    This Slovakia had relation close relations with Hitler's Germany,
    who just had made Czech part of Germany (EU wasn't invented yet..).
    Later on Slovaks were fighting on Soviet side against Germans.
    As far as I've understood, in eastern countries Russians had
    quite a good support in former Czechoslovakia before Prague 68,
    the worst mistake of Kreml (before Afganistan and Chechenya).
14. Carpatho Ukraine and Carelia.
15. 3 other countries: in case of Finland they were Sweden, Norway
    and Austria. In case of Slovakia they are Hungary, Poland
    and Czech Republic. But as I former mentioned, Czech hasn't
    yet decided about the application.
16. In international media some opinions of Mr. Soros has been widely
    used in negative way what comes to Slovakia. In Finland before
    referendum Soros was a common weapon in pro-EU movement. "How
    could Finland survive alone because there are people like Soros,
    Finland is too small...".
18. Methodius and Kyrillos started their work in Great Moravia,
    but then the politics were changed and they had to leave.
    Politically this meant that Slovakia belongs in western culture,
    but the heart of eastern culture that has so strongly dominated
    Russia has it's roots also in Slovakia.
    In Finland there already was some christianity and so called pagan
    christianity when Swedish king and English bishop started their
    crusades, which were also political.
    Bishop Henry were later killed by a Finnish farmer called Lalli.
    Today Henry is the national saint (in Vatican) of Finland and
    Lalli is a national hero of Finland. Both have statues...
19. Both have a "problematic" big brother, Slovaks have their Czech
    and Finns have their Sweden.
21. In Lillehammer Finland won group A. and Slovakia won group B.
    Hmm.. or the other way round..?
22. Prime minister of Slovakia, Meciar, is former boxer. Finnish
    prime minister, Lipponen, used to play wate ball.
23. The problems between Meciar and Kovac are known. In Finland
    there are a lot of problems between parliament and president
    Ahtisaari what comes especially to EU politics, but there are
    also other hazy things.
25. Gavcikovo (Slovakia) and Vuotos (Finland).


 Jorma Kyppo"
 Laukaa
 Finland
 

Bekovetkezett az, amitol mar reg tartottam: a HUNGARY listaba sem irhat
tobbe az, aki akar, s cenzuratol mentesen.  Az urugy: egy ket szelsoseges
iras.  Mintha ugyan az olvasok kisgyerekek lennenek, akiket ovni kellene
ezektol.  Tulajdonkepen nem is a lista gazdajat hibaztatom, mivel
szerintem o a HIX Jozsinal is sokkal lezserebbul hagyta a dolgokat
folyni beavatkozas nelkul.  Inkabb ott a baj, hogy ezek a listak
altalaban valamelyik egyetem, vagy nagy ceg tulajdonaban levo gepek
vendegei, s igy a tulajon keresztul konnyu nyomast gyakorolni a listara
a mindenutt jelenlevo politikailag korrekt nyuzsgoknek.

Mivel megfogadtam magamnak, hogy cenzurazott politikai forumokra nem
irok, maradt az s.c.m., ami lassan mar csak az egyetlen szabad forum
marad.  Hacsak par "control freak" el nem eri, hogy ez is moderalt forum
legyen.  Szerencsere a Usenet demokratizmusa ennek eleg jo gatat vet.
Csak az a baj, hogy a Usenet meg mindig nem annyira elerheto legtobb
Internetezonek, mint az egyszeru fenyposta, s gyakran tobb napos
kesesben is vannak a cikkek.  Ezert is jo lenne, ha akadna egy lista
lehetoseg is.  De csak olyan, amelyik valoban szabad lenne.  A magam
reszerol, ha mar ki kene zarni valakit, en azokat zarnam ki, akik
cenzurat akarnanak.

Pannon J.

 (Red. de Eventoj) wrote:

> Video-filmoj
> ************

> La  numeroj  1,  2 kaj 3 estas destinitaj speciale por E-instruistoj. La
> numeroj 2 kaj 7 haveblas ankau~ en NTSC.

Grava klarigo:

Antau` ol vi mendos vidbendon de alia lando, gravas kontroli c`u vi
povas spekti g`in!

Vidbendoj kutime haveblas au` en la televidsistemo PAL au` en NTSC. Se
vi log`as en Eu`ropo, via vidbendmas`ino vers`ajne akceptas PALan
vidbendon. En Usono, Kanado, kaj Japanio, vi bezonas NTSCan. Kie ajn
vi log`as, vi povas kontroli la skatolojn en kiuj venas vidbendoj
kiujn vi sukcesas spekti. La skatolo kutime havas ie indikon por
montri c`u g`i estas NTSC au` PAL.

(Ne konfuzig`u! VHS estas speco de vidbendo sur kiu oni povas
reg`istri au` NTSC-an au` PALan programon.)

Bedau`rinde, la plejmulto da vidbendoj en Esperanto haveblas nur en
PAL. Mi persone ac`etus multe da vidbendoj, se mi povus uzi ilin!

Gary Grady
Durham NC USA (NTSC-a lando)

"Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq" > wrote:
> While one can actually have a modem connection in most every city, it 
>may be prohibitevily expensive - even for most folks in the capital; on 
>the other hand in my experience we country folks speak at least as good 
>English as those with the dubious luck if living in Budapest ;-). The big 
>problem is that Usenet connection is very spotty for the whole country.

I am sorry but during the months I was staying in Hungary (in
different cities / towns) with my Hungarian friend,  I couldn't find
anyone who could speak English to me.  I had to learn Hungarian
instead, which was fine, because I love Hungarian Language and I find
it the most beautiful language I have ever heard.  

Even my Hungarian friend told me that there were hardly anyone who
could make a simple conversation with me in English.  To me, I think
the problem lies if the educational system there.  Tell me, how can
one learn English when the teacher in school is teaching English in
Hungarian?

I love Gyor and I love Budapest.  I will definitely pay them a visit
again (4th time) soon....

Parker
(Singapore)
Parker Lim
(Singapore)

Przebywajac w Szwecji slyszalem od Szwedow ze "Slav" pochodzi od
skandynawskiego slowa "slav" - niewolnik.  Nazwa ta podobno zostala nadana
przez Vikingow przywozacych niewolnikow z wojen na obszarach zamieszkalych
przez Slowian.  Czy kto prawda?

In article >,
    (Tibor G. Balogh) wrote:
>Sziasztok mindanyian!
>
>Uj vagyok a soc.culture.magyar newsgroup olvasasahoz es csak elore
>koszonok mindenkinek.  Az omri-l listan mar reg rajta vagyok es
>onnan figyelem hogy mitortenik kis Magyarorszaggal es Erdejel meg
>a tobbi regi magyar teruletekkel.  Meg kell mondjam jobb az elet
>itten Californiaban, de azert vannak rokonaim "othon" is, es
>figyelem a dolgokat.
>
>Sziasztok,
>
>-tibor
>
>
Szia!!
Ugy ahogy mondod..nem kell sokat figyelned mert igazad van.. En Toronto -ba vag
yok 
de meg itt is jobb, igaz itt hideg van..  Mijen az ido ott?

In article >,  () writ
es:
|> A friend of mine has asked me to get for him the e-mail address for the
|> Soros Foundation in Budapest.  If anybody has it, please send it to me.
|> If you also know the regular mail address, include that, too, please.

Joe,

Not the right answer, but it may help.  What about taking a look at
`http://www.soros.org/' ?  Although I don't know if your friend has
WWW access.

  Andras Olah                    	

In article >,  (Andras Olah) 
writes:
|> Not the right answer, but it may help.  What about taking a look at
|> `http://www.soros.org/' ?  Although I don't know if your friend has
|> WWW access.

OK. I dug a bit further and here's what I've found at the address:

gopher://gopher.soros.org:70/00/Foundations/Hungary/Cont_Affil/CEU-Budapest

CEU-Budapest
Nador u. 9
1051 Budapest, Hungary
tel: (36 1) 327 5000
fax: (36 1) 327 5001

Unfortunately, no e-mail is mentioned here.

Andras

This is crossposted in 3 newsgroups.

The discussion about racism seems to continue in s.c.n. As we in
Scandinavia know, in Sweden there has been already sometime problems
with racism and neonazis. Swedes are following their bigbrothers
Germans. And now also in Finland has raised first tiny neonazis,
aping Swedes like usual. Yes, it really seems to be so that Finns
get their cultural effects from Central Europe and Sweden... in
good and bad.

Racism is just like facism and nationalism, kind of weapon to blame
other people. It is quite usual to end discussion by offering these
stamps on your opponents. I would call this "opinion racism".

In racism there's also much hippocrate thinking, same kind what we
have when we deal with disabled people. We are playing a role, that
we can't see that someone is disabled and in that way show that
deep inside our minds we are shame of them. It is difficult to
be natural.
In Finland there are still many places, where people haven't seen
black people. So it is only natural if you wonder different kind
of people. 

How complicated and absurd and far from "black and white" racism might
be, I understood last year when I visited in Slovakia.

As some of you may know a) in Slovakia live many gypsies, b) the
relations between Hungarians and Slovaks are something like
the relations between Swedes (as Hungarians) and Finns (as Slovaks)
in last century and early in this century during so called
"language wars". Slovaks often think, that Hungarians are proud
and like to govern Slovaks again, when in Hungary many people
think that Hungary created Slovakian culture and that Slovakia
is only a northern part of Hungary.
We, the Finns, have also a clear connection with Hungarians, both
Finnish and Hungarian are Fennougrian languages, which are a small
minority in the ocean of Indoeuropean languages in Europe.

That was the backgrounds, and now my very short story:
So I visited in Slovakia last year, and was walking alone in the
night (as I sometimes like to do) in one Slovakian town in
some small dark street.
When I was crossing the street, I saw a car coming in fast speed
and wasn't sure if I should wait or continue my walking. After 1
second hazitating I decided to continue and the car passed me quite
near.
The result was that car did stop and I saw it was filled by six
gypsies. The driver opened the window and shouted angrily in
Slovak: "What are you doing, are you some Hungarian or what!!?"
I was thinking to answer, that no, just a cousin, but then thought
that better not. 

I found the situation very absurd, a Slovakian gypsy blames a Finn,
who understands Slovak, claiming rasistically, that he's kind of
Hungarian...
I didn't know if I should laugh or cry, but it was a good lesson.
racism is very relative matter.

Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland



So this is backgrounds.

How do you translate

"Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year love from David" into Hungarian?

thanks for your help!

DAVID

 wrote:

>The typical Romanian toilet is a hole in the floor, about 5 inches in
>diameter.  Most of the time there is a buildup around the edges of the
>hole due to the poor aiming habits of the locals.  With time the
>buildup can get pretty high and dry, able to even support a lighter weight 
>person.  This natural toilet seat eventually collapses though under the 
>weight of some heavyset person and the build-up starts anew.

Congratulations Joe.  You gave the full measure of your intellect and sense
of humour here.  Vulis and Dragon Fly must be proud of you.
Keep the good work going.

Dan
-- 
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

I just posted an article "Language laws..". The
following funny isomorphism might be nice to read as
background:

What is this country? Who are these people?
(the answer is in follow-up)

1. The name of the country starts with the letter "S".

2. The country has appr. 5 million of inhabitants.

3. The capital has appr. half a million of inhabitants.

4. The Capital city is situated on the southern border
   in the close vicinity of the important water route.

5. The water road is dominated by the great castle
   which functions as a museum.

6. On the other side of the water, in the distance of some
   tens of kilometers, there is another European capital -
   an old cultural city with the beautiful ancient buildings.
   This capital has former had much to do also with German
   culture.

7. The country is most densely populated in the south. Northern
   parts form rather rough highland areas abundant with the bears,
   wolves, snow and tourists.

8. Thousand years ago the country was conquered and the language of
   the invaders became with Latin, the language of the upper class.
   The power of these invaders lasted for centuries and like
   all conquerors they wrote the history of their own, which
   told that *they* brought the civilization.

9. The use of national language was not possible at schools.
   Respect for the national language grew up much later.
   Just like the identitety of he nation.

10. In the last century, the country was a part of the great imperium
    which broke down as a result of the World War I.

11. As a result of the World War I, national awakening started up
    already earlier led to the establishment of national parliament.

12. Appr. 5-10% of the minority population living in the southern
    parts of the country speaks the language of the former landlords.
    But there are also a lot of families who speak both languages.

13. The country got to the World War II though it did not want to
    get involved. First as an alien and later as an adversary of
    Germany. In away..

14. After the war a large area on the east called Car...
    was joined in the Soviet Union.

15. In the 90th, position of the country in Europe has radically
    been changed. Its future seems to be closely connected with
    the future of the European Union. Originally it seemed that
    S. + 3 other countries would join in same time. Later there
    were some changes...

16. In this campaign about EU, also an international businessman,
    George Soros, has been widely on stage.

17. This country has always situated on the border of the East and
    the West.

18. At first Christianity pushed in from East, but already very early
    Western churches became dominate.

19. The outside world seems to recognize only its "western neighbour"
    who knows better how to advertize oneself. And so the small
    "eastern brother" often remains on the background as unknown.

20. Her "western brother" are known as excellent tennis and ice-hockey
    players.

21. Lately also the players of the ice-hockey national team have
    reached the top of the Canadian NHL. The start of new coming
    were seen in the Olympics of Lillehammer, Norway, where national
    team managed to win the first place in their group.

22. The present prime minister of the country is an athletic type,
    former active sportsman, and oppositio is accusing him about
    making decisions without listening others.
    Oppositio also accuses prime minister, that he has collected
    around him weak ministers and decides about everything by himself.
    Oppositio is also accusing that the party of prime minister
    is slowly taking all the important positions in the country.

23. The relation between the prime minister and president is just
    now quite unlabile. Who has power over what?

24. Next hot question in politics is also the membership in NATO,
    though politicians avoid to say it aloud. The partnership of
    peace with NATO already exists.

25. In energy politics there are two hot question: a new nuclear
    power station and a large artificial lake to product water
    energy.

Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland

I was asked to post this article also in s.c.magyar.
So, no it is done.

Date: 16 Nov 1995 08:20:17 GMT
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic, soc.culture.baltics,
bit.listserv.slovak-l, soc.culture.czecho-slovak.

Today in Finnish radio news, we were informed about
the new language law in Slovakia, accepted yesterday.

As usual, the reporter couldn't hide his own opinions
about the law. Naturally people in Finland feel much
common with Hungarians because we are relatives in language.
But on the historical viewpoint I like more the model,
where Finns represent Slovaks and Hungarians Swedes.

I've got some information about this new law on general
level, details I don't know yet. The most popular detail
said in Finnish media (also yesterday) is about "pop corn",
that later it would be denied to use this word, because
it isn't Slovak language. I suppose, that this is exaggerating,
Slovakia is no France...

But what is then this law about? And commonly, how are the rights
in European countries among other minority languages?

So far I know, in Slovakia there are Hungarian elementaryschools
(more than 10% of schools), Hungarian kindergartens (same amount),
Hungarian secondary schools (also ca. 10%), etc..

I've understood, that some Hungarian speaking people want that
Hungarian would be in Slovakia in same position like Swedish
in Finland.
But what is their position actually? And how it should be?

It is interesting, that just in October EU accepted the sketch
of this same law. So on European level it should be ok.
If I remember right, Latvia had to change their own law because
EU demanded it.

Now:
Certainly Hungarian language in Slovakia don't have same rights
like Swedish in Finland. Swedish is another official language
and the number of Swedish speaking people in Finland is some about
same like there are Hungarian speaking in Sloavakia. And the population
in both countries (Finland and Slovakia) is ca. 5 million.

But:
What about if we apply the position of Hungarian language in Slovakia
to
A. Finnish language in Sweden?
B. Russian language in Estonia and Latvia?
C. Finnish language in Finland, Aaland?
D. Slovak language in Hungary and Czech Republic?
E. Generally?

Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa, Finland

Jorma Kyppo > wrote:
> In racism there's also much hippocrate thinking, same kind what we
  but he wanted to say:       hypocritical

> Jorma Kyppo
> Laukaa
> Finland
>