Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 900
Copyright (C) HIX
1997-01-30
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Soros article (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Egy kis lecke Szalai Jozsefnek (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
3 History Books in Hungarian (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Egy kis lecke Szalai Jozsefnek (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Egy kis lecke Szalai Jozsefnek (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
6 Propaganda! (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
7 Levelek Al Gorehoz es Horn Gyulahoz (mind)  160 sor     (cikkei)
8 HL-Action: Delegation to GORE (mind)  69 sor     (cikkei)
9 HL-Action: Delegation to GORE (mind)  69 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Protecting the HUNGARY list (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: The Trouble With Corporatism (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: History Books in Hungarian (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: History Books in Hungarian (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: szalasy (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Propaganda! (mind)  41 sor     (cikkei)
16 Soros and capitalism (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Soros article (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The article by George Soros which was mentioned on here a week or two ago
is now available on the Atlantic Monthly's Website. The sooner you read
it, the sooner we can all begin arguing about whether Soros is a visionary
or a dope.
http://www.theatlantic.com/ should get you there.

Hay un hispanohablante quien me escrito por el articulo sobre George
Soros. Mi respuesta reboto. La direccion del Web es
http://www.theatlantic.com/
Sam Stowe

"Those who serve the revolution
plow the sea..."
-- Simon Bolivar
+ - Re: Egy kis lecke Szalai Jozsefnek (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

N.Ferenc wrote:

 on Jan 28 07:49:01 EST 1997 in HUNGARY #898:
>
>>You don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about, Ferenc.  But
>>then again, you're a right-wing ideologue/idiotlogue and I really don't
>>expect any illumination, on anything, from you.
>
>Here is another example of the desperate personal attacks some otherwise
>quite intelligent people resort to when they run out of rational arguments.
> That's OK, Joe; you just go on believing that your left-wing homosexual type
>represents the mainstream.  Then being called a right-winger by you is a
>compliment, however unintended.
>
>Ferenc

Ferenc, why do you reply to him? Don't you see that he is desperatelly trying
to provoke a discussion about homosexuality. All of his post about 'Sexuality
and Politics' was fishing, waiting for someone to respond and argue.
If you want to argue, rather do it with Mark Humprey. If not let J.Szalai
alone. Elobb utobb talal maganak mas szorakozast.

J.Zs
+ - History Books in Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Listmembers!

Among a few other goodies which I just acquired from Pu:ski-Corvin in New
York are three volumes in Hungarian. They are a two-volume set *A Dualizmus
Kora - Magyarorszag To:rte'nete 1867-1918,* by Gratz Gusztav. The third is
*A Forradalmak Kora - Magyarorsza'g To:rte'nete 1918 - 1920,* also by Gratz.
They were originally published by Magyar Szemle Ta'rsasa'g, Budapest, the
former in 1934, the latter in 1935 and reprinted in Budapest in 1992.

I would be interested in "hearing" your opinions of his work and also would
like to know if there are any other histories of this period which would be
considered valuable or indispensable for further research.

Ko:so:no:m,

Johanne/Janka
Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 
+ - Re: Egy kis lecke Szalai Jozsefnek (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 01:16 AM 1/30/97 -0500, Janos Zsargo wrote:

<snip>
>Ferenc, why do you reply to him? Don't you see that he is desperatelly
>trying to provoke a discussion about homosexuality. All of his post about
>'Sexuality and Politics' was fishing, waiting for someone to respond and
>argue. If you want to argue, rather do it with Mark Humprey. If not let
>J.Szalai alone. Elobb utobb talal maganak mas szorakozast.

Ko:szi, Janos.  E's a te szorakoza'sod a lo'nak la'ba ko:zo:tt van.  E'rted?

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: Egy kis lecke Szalai Jozsefnek (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:43 PM 1/29/97 -0500, Ferenc Novak wrote:

 on Jan 28 07:49:01 EST 1997 in HUNGARY #898:
>
>>You don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about, Ferenc.  But
>>then again, you're a right-wing ideologue/idiotlogue and I really don't
>>expect any illumination, on anything, from you.
>
>Here is another example of the desperate personal attacks some otherwise
>quite intelligent people resort to when they run out of rational arguments.
> That's OK, Joe; you just go on believing that your left-wing homosexual
>type represents the mainstream.  Then being called a right-winger by you is
>a compliment, however unintended.

My dear Ferenc,

If you believe that, then you're probably moving your lips while you're
reading this.

Joe Szalai
+ - Propaganda! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:47 PM 1/29/97 GMT, Sam Stowe, in "Re: The Trouble With Corporatism",
wrote:

>In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:

<snip>
>>Democracy, n.:
>>        A government of the masses.  Authority derived through mass
>>meeting or any other form of direct expression.  Results in mobocracy.
>>Attitude toward property is communistic... negating property rights.
>>Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate,
>>whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion,
>>prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
>>Result is demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
>>                -- U. S. Army Training Manual No. 2000-25 (1928-1932),
>>                   since withdrawn.
>
>This is great propaganda! Did you make this up on your own or is it actual
>disinformation from the period itself?
>Sam Stowe

Propaganda?  Why would it be propaganda?  The sources for my quotes have so
far been accurate.  However I don't have easy access to those old U. S. Army
Training Manuals so I can't verify its accuracy.  Perhaps Csaba Zoltani, if
he's still on this list, can do a bit of research.

Propaganda or not, you just can't stand any criticism of things American.
And that's your problem.  You're an American Janos Zsargo!

I'll get back to the rest of your comments when I have a bit more time.

Joe Szalai

"The successor to politics will be propaganda. Propaganda, not in the sense
of a message or ideology, but as the impact of the whole technology of the
times."
           Marshall McLuhan
+ - Levelek Al Gorehoz es Horn Gyulahoz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tisztelt Honfit=E1rsam,

Mult vas=E1rnap New York k=F6rny=E9k=E9nek magyar vezeto"i lev=E9lben for=
dultak Gore
aleln=F6kh=F6z, k=E9rve, hogy hallgassa meg deleg=E1ci=F3nkat =E9s segits=
en megv=E9deni a
Dun=E1t =E9s a Szigetk=F6zt. A levelet al=E1irta 27 szervezet =E9s egyh=E1=
z vezeto"je,
k=F6zt=FCk a Magyarok Vil=E1gsz=F6vets=E9ge, a Magyar Zsid=F3k Vil=E1gsz=F6=
vets=E9ge =E9s a Roma
Vil=E1gszervezet eln=F6kei. Mult =E9jjel "fax-broadcast" =FAtj=E1n felk=E9=
rt, Dr. Bollyky
L=E1szl=F3, minden olyan magyar szervezetet =E9s egyh=E1zat, melynek fax-=
sz=E1m=E1val
rendelkezik a Magyar Lobbi, hogy gy=FCjtsenek al=E1=EDr=E1sokat =E9s k=FC=
ldj=E9k el
leveleiket az aleln=F6knek. Ha az =D6n egyh=E1za/szervezete nem kapott il=
yen faxot
az elm=FAlt =E9jjel, k=E9rem adja meg fax sz=E1mutat (csak akkor, ha auto=
matikus!) a
k=F6vetkez  e-mail c=EDmen:

                                    ******************
Ma =E9jjel egy hasonl=F3 "fax-broadcast"-al megk=FCldj=FCk Horn Gyula
Minisztereln=F6knek az Amerikai Magyars=E1g mell=E9kelt Nyilt Level=E9t. =
Nagyon
k=E9rj=FCk =D6nt, hogy gy=FCjts=F6n ahhoz is al=E1ir=E1sokat, s k=FCldje =
el azt is az
elk=F6vetkez  napokban. K=E9rj=FCk a magyar ujs=E1gokat, hogy k=F6z=F6lj=E9=
k a ny=EDlt
levelet is =E9s a Gore aleln=F6kh=F6z irott levelet is. Az ido"  r=F6vid.=
 M=E1rcius
3-=E1n kezdo"dik a per. =D6n=F6n is m=FAlik kedves Honfit=E1rsam, hogy me=
gv=E9dj=FCk
Szigetk=F6z csodavil=E1g=E1t, s hat=E1rfoly=F3nkat a Dun=E1t. Meg=E9r ez =
p=E1r =F3ra munk=E1t =E9s
k=E9t b=E9lyeget. K=E9rem seg=EDtsen.

O"szinte tisztelettel: Lipt=E1k B=E9la

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
        Az Amerikai Magyars=E1g Nyilt Levele Horn Gyul=E1hoz=20

Horn Gyula, Magyarorsz=E1g Minisztereln=F6ke
                                             1997 febru=E1r=20
H-10055 Budapest, Orsz=E1gh=E1z
Kossuth Lajos T=E9r 1-3, HUNGARY

Tisztelt Minisztereln=F6k =DAr!=20
Mi, az 1.58 milli=F3s amerikai magyars=E1g alul=EDrott k=E9pviselo"i, a k=
=F6vetkezo"kre
k=E9rj=FCk =D6nt a m=E1rcius 3-=E1n kezdo"do"  h=E1gai perrel kapcsolatba=
n:
        K=E9rj=FCk, hogy a magyar korm=E1ny azonnal sz=FCntessen meg mind=
en a peren
k=EDv=FCli titkos megegyez=E9sre vonatkoz=F3 t=E1rgyal=E1st =E9s egy=E9rt=
elmu"en jelentse ki,
hogy ellene van a Julius Binder p=E9nzelte  re=E1lis z=F6ldek  ama terv=E9=
nek, hogy
Helemba sziget=E9n=E9l meg=E9p=FClj=F6n a Nagymarosn=E1l felsz=E1molt sz=F6=
rnysz=FCl=F6tt g=E1t,
hogy a szt=E1lini gigantom=E1nia, mint angol WC-t mu"k=F6dtethesse a mi
hat=E1rfoly=F3nkat, a Dun=E1t.
        K=E9rj=FCk utas=EDtsa a magyar =E9rdekeket H=E1g=E1ban k=E9pvisel=
o"  =FCgyv=E9deket,
hogy a per tengely=E9be a hat=E1rfoly=F3kat v=E9do"  nemzetk=F6zi jog pre=
cedenseit
helyezz=E9k =E9s az 1977- ben szovjet k=E9nyszer alatt k=F6t=F6tt szerzo"=
d=E9s
semmiss=E9g=E9t, illetve a magyar =E1llam ter=FCleti integrit=E1s=E1nak a=
 megs=E9rt=E9s=E9t
hangs=FAlyozz=E1k. Az 1977-es szerzo"d=E9s =E9rv=E9nytelen mert megsz=FCn=
t az azt
kiero"szakol=F3 keret (a Vars=F3i Paktum); =E9rv=E9nytelen mert megsz=FCn=
t az azt
al=E1=EDr=F3 m=E1sik f=E9l (Csehszlov=E1kia); =E9rv=E9nytelen mert =FCtk=F6=
zik az ENSZ
alapokm=E1ny=E1val mely kimondja, hogy minden olyan szerzo"d=E9s semmis, =
mely csak
az egyik f=E9lnek =E9rdeke; =E9rv=E9nytelen mert =FCtk=F6zik a P=E1risi B=
=E9keszerzo"d=E9ssel
mely a nagyhatalmak j=F3v=E1hagy=E1s=E1t teszi sz=FCks=E9gess=E9 ahhoz, h=
ogy b=E1rki a
hat=E1rfoly=F3t =E9rinto"  v=E1ltoztat=E1st kezdem=E9nyezhessen =E9s pers=
ze =FCtk=F6zik a
magyar alkotm=E1nnyal is mely k=F6telezi a mindenkori korm=E1nyt, hogy cs=
ak olyan
szerzo"d=E9st irjon al=E1, mely nem s=E9rti az orsz=E1g integrit=E1s=E1t.
        K=E9rj=FCk, hogy =D6n is hozz=E1nk hasonl=F3an k=E9rje az Egyes=FC=
lt =C1llamok
aleln=F6k=E9t, Al Gore aleln=F6k urat, hogy hallgassa meg a Magyar K=F6rn=
yezetv=E9delmi
Alap k=E9pviselo"j=E9t =E9s seg=EDtsen megmenteni a j=E9gkorszak =F3ta fe=
ntmaradt =E9s az
eg=E9sz vil=E1gon egyed=FCl=E1ll=F3 term=E9szeti kincs=FCnket, a Szigetk=F6=
zt.
        K=E9rj=FCk, hogy a magyar korm=E1ny haszn=E1lja ki a m=E9g rendel=
kez=E9sre =E1ll=F3
p=E1r hetet a vil=E1g k=F6zv=E9lem=E9ny=E9nek t=E1j=E9koztat=E1s=E1ra. K=E9=
rj=FCk, hogy hagyjanak fel
az eddigi f=FClsiket=EDto"  hallgat=E1ssal =E9s tegy=E9k meg v=E9gre azt =
amit m=E1r r=E9g=F3ta
k=F6teless=E9g=FCk lett volna; K=E9rj=FCk utas=EDtsa az =F6sszes magyar k=
=FClk=E9pviseletet,
hogy ismertess=E9k Magyarorsz=E1g h=E1gai =E1ll=E1spontj=E1t. K=E9rj=FCk,=
 hogy utas=EDtsa az
=F6sszes idegen nyelven sug=E1rz=F3 =E9s =E1llami k=E9zben l=E9vo"  r=E1d=
i=F3 =E9s TV ad=F3t, hogy
hozz=E1k a vil=E1g tudom=E1s=E1ra a vil=E1g=F6r=F6ks=E9g r=E9sz=E9t k=E9p=
ezo"  Szigetk=F6z
trag=E9di=E1j=E1t. K=E9rj=FCk, hogy =FAj b=E9lyegek kiad=E1s=E1val, a mag=
yar hat=E1rt =E1tl=E9po"
 minden lev=E9l, a per alatt, azt terjessze, azt k=E9rje a vilag nepeitol=
:
"Seg=EDtsetek, hogy megmenthess=FCk a K=E9k Dun=E1t!" =20
        K=E9rj=FCk, k=F6veteljen k=E1rt=E9r=EDt=E9st Szlov=E1ki=E1t=F3l, =
nem csak az=E9rt mert
eltulajdon=EDtotta a magyar haza r=E9sz=E9t k=E9pezo"  hat=E1rfoly=F3t, n=
em csak az=E9rt,
hogy t=F6nkretette a Szigetk=F6zt =E9s a t=E1j v=EDztartal=E9k=E1t, de az=
=E9rt is mert az
elterel=E9sto"l napjainkig eltulajdon=EDtott $1 milli=E1rd =E9rt=E9ku", k=
=F6z=F6s
v=EDztulajdonb=F3l termelt =E1ramot.
        K=E9rj=FCk, hogy a magyar korm=E1ny form=E1lisan t=E1mogassa a h=E1=
gai b=EDr=F3s=E1g
=E1ltal elfogadott  Memorial -j=E1t a vil=E1g k=F6rnyezetv=E9do"  szervez=
eteinek,
ugyan=FAgy mint a Magyar K=F6rnyezetv=E9delmi Alap =E1ltal oda szint=E9n =
benyujtott
Kiegyez=E9si Tervet. (E terv szerint Magyarosz=E1g visszanyeri hat=E1rfol=
y=F3j=E1t =E9s
Dunakilitin=E9l a v=EDzeloszt=E1s csapj=E1t; Szlov=E1kia, a bo"si ero"mu"
 biztons=E1goss=E1 t=E9tele ut=E1n, megkapja a folyamatos bo"si =E1ramter=
mel=E9st =E9s a
pozsonyi kik=F6to"t; Nyugat Eur=F3pa, az =E9p=EDtkez=E9s alatti =E1ramkie=
s=E9s p=F3tl=E1sa
ellen=E9ben, hozz=E1jut az =E9ven=E1ltal =FCzemelo"  haj=F3z=E1shoz =FAgy=
 a Duna fo"medr=E9ben,
mint az =FCzemv=EDz csatorn=E1ban; az Egyes=FClt =C1llamok, a mederduzzas=
zt=E1s k=F6lts=E9ge
ellen=E9ben bebizony=EDthatja, hogy  Boszni=E1k  n=E9lk=FCl is rendezheto=
"ek a vit=E1s
k=E9rd=E9sek =E9s hogy mu"k=F6dik az =FAj vil=E1grend; az Emberis=E9g sz=E1=
m=E1ra megmenek=FCl, a
vil=E1g=F6r=F6ks=E9g r=E9sz=E9t k=E9pezo"  Szigetk=F6z; =E9s a T=E9rs=E9g=
 lak=F3i sz=E1m=E1ra
biztos=EDttatik t=F6bbezer munkaalkalom, es egy a t=E9rs=E9gben kialak=ED=
tand=F3  Eur=F3pai
Szabad Z=F3na  is, mely nem csak az eco-turizmus g=F3ca, de a
magyar-szlov=E1k-osztr=E1k t=F6bbnemzeti egy=FCttmu"k=F6d=E9s mint=E1ja i=
s lesz.)
        Rem=E9lve, hogy t=E1mogatni fogja fenti k=E9r=E9seinket, az Ameri=
kai
Magyars=E1g k=E9pviselo"it t=E1mogatva, maradunk o"szinte tisztelettel:


____________________________________________________________________
____________________________N=E9v               Szervezet
                                     =20
+ - HL-Action: Delegation to GORE (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
   URGENT

Background:
   Hungarian organizations and churches from New York City and 
surroundings have requested vice president Al Gore to receive a 
delegation of Hungarian-Americans which wishes to present him the 
aspects of the lawsuit at the International Court in the Hague and 
the Compromise Plan. The Compromise Plan ensures the survival of the 
famous Danube wetlands of Szigetkoz.

What to do:
  Please ask vice president Al Gore to receive the Hungarian-American 
delegation. Feel free to use the attached NEW form letter. Al Gore 
will only take notice if he receives thousands of letters. 
  Therefore please send at least one letter every day. Furthermore
PLEASE MAKE A CHAIN LETTER OF THIS CALL FOR ACTION. Send it to
everybody on your personal mailing list and ask them to forward it to
their friends. PLEASE ACT!! SEND SEVERAL LETTERS A DAY!!!

e-mail address of Al Gore:


*************************************************************

The Honorable Al Gore
Vice President of the United States
(e-mail: )

RE: Please receive delegation of Hungarian-Americans

Dear Mr. Vice President,
  
  When Slovakia illegally diverted the Danube in 1993 and thereby 
endangered the Danube wetlands (mainly located in Hungary), you spoke 
up for the rescue of this unique ecosystem. The divertion of the 
Danube by Slovakia caused a dispute with its neighbour Hungary. The two 
countries determined to let the International Court in the Hague 
decide in the case. 

  It seems to be time for you to speak up again, as humankind is
approaching an important precedent: The first international
environmental lawsuit is coming up in a few weeks at the International
Court of Justice in The Hague.

   Still, the implications of this case go beyond the future of just one
river or just one wetland ecosystem. This lawsuit will set a precedent
for the whole planet and will decide on a much more basic question:
"Do national governments have the right to do as they please with the
ecosystem of this planet, or does humankind as a whole  have the right
to protect her natural treasures?"

   In 1995, nine international environmental NGOs have submitted a
"Memorial" to the Court which its president, the Honorable Mohammed
Bedjaoui, has accepted. Also submitted to the ICJ was a Compromise
Plan, which would guarantee the restoration of this ancient wetland
region together with fulfilling the water supply, energy and shipping
needs of the region. 

   Dear Mr. Vice President, a delegation of Hungarian-Americans wish to 
present you the most important aspects of the lawsuit and the Compromise 
Plan. Please receive this delegation and attend to its arguments. 
Please help to save the Danube River.

Respectfully yours,

Your name, title, address
+ - HL-Action: Delegation to GORE (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
   URGENT

Background:
   Hungarian organizations and churches from New York City and
surroundings have requested vice president Al Gore to receive a
delegation of Hungarian-Americans which wishes to present him the
aspects of the lawsuit at the International Court in the Hague and
the Compromise Plan. The Compromise Plan ensures the survival of the
famous Danube wetlands of Szigetkoz.

What to do:
  Please ask vice president Al Gore to receive the Hungarian-American
delegation. Feel free to use the attached NEW form letter. Al Gore
will only take notice if he receives thousands of letters.
  Therefore please send at least one letter every day. Furthermore
PLEASE MAKE A CHAIN LETTER OF THIS CALL FOR ACTION. Send it to
everybody on your personal mailing list and ask them to forward it to
their friends. PLEASE ACT!! SEND SEVERAL LETTERS A DAY!!!

e-mail address of Al Gore:


*************************************************************

The Honorable Al Gore
Vice President of the United States
(e-mail: )

RE: Please receive delegation of Hungarian-Americans

Dear Mr. Vice President,

  When Slovakia illegally diverted the Danube in 1993 and thereby
endangered the Danube wetlands (mainly located in Hungary), you spoke
up for the rescue of this unique ecosystem. The divertion of the
Danube by Slovakia caused a dispute with its neighbour Hungary. The two
countries determined to let the International Court in the Hague
decide in the case.

  It seems to be time for you to speak up again, as humankind is
approaching an important precedent: The first international
environmental lawsuit is coming up in a few weeks at the International
Court of Justice in The Hague.

   Still, the implications of this case go beyond the future of just one
river or just one wetland ecosystem. This lawsuit will set a precedent
for the whole planet and will decide on a much more basic question:
"Do national governments have the right to do as they please with the
ecosystem of this planet, or does humankind as a whole  have the right
to protect her natural treasures?"

   In 1995, nine international environmental NGOs have submitted a
"Memorial" to the Court which its president, the Honorable Mohammed
Bedjaoui, has accepted. Also submitted to the ICJ was a Compromise
Plan, which would guarantee the restoration of this ancient wetland
region together with fulfilling the water supply, energy and shipping
needs of the region.

   Dear Mr. Vice President, a delegation of Hungarian-Americans wish to
present you the most important aspects of the lawsuit and the Compromise
Plan. Please receive this delegation and attend to its arguments.
Please help to save the Danube River.

Respectfully yours,

Your name, title, address
+ - Re: Protecting the HUNGARY list (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I have just come back from two weeks vacation.  I have accessed the list
before via WINVN, but now I was put on the list.   It took me more than a
half an hour to download my mail.  I would prefer to access the list on
the "open", when I want to,  rather than as a subscriber, getting
everything automatically.

Zoli, could you please unsubscribe me?  Thanks.
Regards,

Agnes Heringer
+ - Re: The Trouble With Corporatism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

(Sam Stove:) -cut-
> I rather like Sir Karl Popper's view
> that perhaps human history is largely full of sound and fury signifying
> nothing and the totalitarian struggle to invest it with any meaning- or
> truth-bearing structure is doomed to frustration. It means I can spend
>>-cut-

It sounds like an easy getout from the business of problemsolving,
don't you think?  Even Popper admits to the existence of a reality,
even if he thinks we are not equipped to find it (he accepts, that
rational thought - science-  can approximate physical reality) if it
is the social reality.  Yes, we are greatly hindered, but social
reality exist, whether we'll find a correct description or not.
The reality is that we haven't got the best possible world.
And being human means looking for better and more foreward looking
solutions, with the help of learning from the painful past.

+ - Re: History Books in Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 06:47 AM 1/30/97 -0400, Johanna wrote:
>Dear Listmembers!
>
>Among a few other goodies which I just acquired from Pu:ski-Corvin in New
>York are three volumes in Hungarian. They are a two-volume set *A Dualizmus
>Kora - Magyarorszag To:rte'nete 1867-1918,* by Gratz Gusztav. The third is
>*A Forradalmak Kora - Magyarorsza'g To:rte'nete 1918 - 1920,* also by Gratz.
>They were originally published by Magyar Szemle Ta'rsasa'g, Budapest, the
>former in 1934, the latter in 1935 and reprinted in Budapest in 1992.
>
>I would be interested in "hearing" your opinions of his work and also would
>like to know if there are any other histories of this period which would be
>considered valuable or indispensable for further research.
>
>Ko:so:no:m,

        Practically a "must" for anyone interested in the period. Gratz was
a liberal-conservative politician, finance minister in 1917, and later,
minister of foreign affairs in the first Teleki government. He was a
legitimist, i.e., those who supported the King Karl and later Otto as the
legitimate king of Hungary. His book on the revolutions is almost a primary
source. But, of course, you have to keep in mind that he was a conservative
politician and a legitimist.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: History Books in Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Johanne L. Tournier wrote:

> I would be interested in "hearing" your opinions of his work and also would
> like to know if there are any other histories of this period which would be
> considered valuable or indispensable for further research.

Dear Johanne/Janka,

I just read in the Magyar Radio "Szulofoldunk" program booklet that Bela
Kiraly plans to publish a CD-ROM disk with 22 of his books on
Hungarian history ".. from St Stephan to the present". He says
the disk will be introduced this month and will be distributed widely.
May be somebody on the list can tell you where to get it. I think it would
be a very good reference in your research.

Here is the exact quote from "Szulofoldunk", Febr. 1997:
"Nagyon buszke vagyok, hogy most olyan fordulohoz ertunk, hogy elsonek mi
vagyunk azok -- az en tarsasagom: az Atlanti Kutato es Kiado Tarsulat --,
amely belep az elektronikus mediaba. Most keszul egy CD-ROM, amelyiken 22
konyvunk teljes tartalma rajta lesz. Januarban fogjuk bemutatni es
igyekszunk rengeteg peldanyban szetosztani, mert ebben van a magyar
tortenelem Szent Istvantol a mai kormanyig."

Oszinte tisztelettel,

Barna Bozoki
+ - Re: szalasy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
says...
>
>i want to know what happen's with ferenc szalasy in 1944 in hungary and
>where is buried ?
>
>Thank

So far I know he was tried and executed after the war.  Agnes
+ - Re: Propaganda! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:

>Propaganda?  Why would it be propaganda?  The sources for my quotes have
so
>far been accurate.  However I don't have easy access to those old U. S.
Army
>Training Manuals so I can't verify its accuracy.  Perhaps Csaba Zoltani,
if
>he's still on this list, can do a bit of research.

It would be propaganda because: a) you can't be trusted to verify anything
before rushing into print with it. (You admit as much in the above graph)
and b) your selection from an American army manual doesn't in the remotest
read like anything from an American army manual.

>
>Propaganda or not, you just can't stand any criticism of things American.
>And that's your problem.  You're an American Janos Zsargo!

I can stand criticism of things American when it is informed criticism and
not the usual ranting of vague Canadian anarcho-leftism. You can always
tell the difference between me and Janos -- I'm the one whose English is
intelligible.

>
>I'll get back to the rest of your comments when I have a bit more time.

I think I speak for all of us when I say that I just don't know how I'll
pass the time before you carry out the above threat.

Sam Stowe
>Joe Szalai
>
>



"Those who serve the revolution
plow the sea..."
-- Simon Bolivar
+ - Soros and capitalism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Just one question please: If Soros were a pauper would anybody care about
his silly
"philosophy"?

Alexander Szegedy

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