Mika Perki|m{ki ) wrote:
: Hello! I'm still looking for road running races in Hungary during August
: 18-23. Any info is appreciated. Thanks!
 What I gather here, all you need to do is dress up in a gypsy outfit...
 You will get free "pace" service from the local youths with interesting
 haircut.
 Cheers
 Andras

Matt Kovacs ) wrote:
: Can any one send me some Hungarian recipes, mains,
:  sweets, desserts, and also if anybody knows shere
:  the best place in Brisbane to shop hungarian is. 
: I want to drink tokai again.
: thanks matt
 Oh if you get e-mail of the recipe of "szilvasgomboc"
 please post or mail it to me.
 Thanks
 Andras

In article >,
Mihai Caragiu > wrote:
>
>What about this: both _record_ the same historical _facts_. 
>Similarly: the dauphin is a mammal in every "Zoology 001" book; 
>two contemporary astronomy books present the same overall picture 
>of the solar system; 2+2=4 in every first grade math book (only Goldstein
>wanted Winston Smith to think otherwise - that was in "1984"); Everest 
>is the highest peak on Earth in every Geography 001 book. And so on...
>In a phrase, any objective reality is expected to be treated similarly 
>in any two science books dealing with it.

If history was an _exact science_ you would be right.  But it isn't, and
you are not.

>unless you present clear
>evidence that the facts recorded by Seton-Watson and Keith Hitchins are
>pure fiction or inventions, which never happened. This is the only way
>you could possibly follow to get a point. And this is exactly what I doubt.

Facts are one thing and interpretations of those facts as to their
reason or consequence is another.  This is not to say, of course, that
facts are never invented by historians.  Case in point is the Daco-Roman
continuity.  But we beat that horse to death already.

>Finally,  (), understanding he has a hard time
>(he is not so stupid anyway) launces a loud cry for help :

Huh?  Are you having delusions?

>Way to go, (). P.S. Hey, man! Do you have some more ? 
>I collect the hottest ones.

Do you think that punch line will substitute for substance in your post?
It's just a repetition of some other Romanian posters who use that
kind of belittling style when they don't like what I have to say, but
don't have anything to counter it in substance.

Pathetic! 

I. Panonescu

In article > Peter Foldiak,
 writes:
>There will be a television documentary on Hungary this
>evening (17 July) at 9 pm on Channel 4 (in the UK). Peter

I've just saw one documentary on Hungary and it was shocking.
It went on RTL2 at saturday night- they changed the program
because of connection problems and we got this documentary
instead of the usual ABC-news.
The prostitution business went into a kinda slave-trade. The
girls are sold out to german brothels by the different maffias
running this business in Hungary.
As a matter of fact, the documentary-makers made some very
dirty tricks as well. (They advertised in a Hungarian newspaper
then secretly filmed the meeting with the applicants. Or when
they made the riport with someone who wanted to stay unrecog-
nizable they masked out his/her face from the video.  But this
mask always slipped sideway enough to make clearly recongi-
zable the Hungarians which never happened with any German
somehow...)
As you know the Hungarian laws on prostitution is *shit*, the
Hungarian police can do little against prostitution and maffia.
What they do is the next:  they secretly try to spy out the nego-
tiations with the applicants to such brothel and massage saloon
jobs then call the German Police. You know these girls travel
to Germany as tourists without any job permission. When the
girls get into work, the police make a razzia and get them in
flagrante delicto.  They are tough , make the job it quite a hu-
miliating way handling the whores as animals. (Some razzia 
were filmed). Tax has to be paid and it is obviously a deadly
serious thing in western democracies.

The nice thing is that one easy way to easy money came to the
end.  Seemingly there is  no way anymore for women to work
secretly as prostitute for couple of weeks and then return to
Hungary to live further the life a  honest housewife or a univer-
sity student, because either the Germans register them as
prostitutes or they get in the hand of the maffia and the few
weeks jobs easily turns into a year-long opportunity without
much payment....
Now this info should be spread widely in Hungary, perhaps on TV.

Tamás

----------------------------------------------------------------------
      (Tomek Jankowski) wrote:
     
      wrote:
     >>    
     >>what you should care about is the content and not the form.
     >>     
     >>so loosen up.
     >>     
     >>goodbye,
     >>     
     >>-cristian
     [Cut]
     
     >Actually, form occasionally implies content - what passes for loose 
     >grammatical structure in English (especially American English) is 
     >generally the result of the average English speaker's ignorance of 
     >the grammatical rules of their own language, and is unacceptable in 
     >other languages. 
     
     true occasionally.  but not in this case.   
     
     >This is why non-native English speakers can be sticky about such 
     >"nuances" as proper capitalizations, etc.  For a non-native English 
     >speaker, therefore, not capitalizing the "h" in "Hungary" appears to 
     >be an insult 
     
     ok.
     
     >and indeed it is
     
     no, it is not.  i already explained why.  it was never intended as 
     such, and therefore it isn't. 
     
     >,even if it was simply a product of the writer's laziness.
     
     only partially ;-).....the rest being just a stylistic touch. 
     
     >It's called discipline.
     >So shape up.
     >
     >Tomek Jankowski
     
     Ja Wohl, Mein Fuhrer ;->
     
     -cristian

Ime ket ujabb allashirdetes az egyetemunkrol.  Az allassal
kapcsolatban a hirdetesek aljan talalhato cimen erdeklodjetek.  A
hellyel kapcsolatos egyeb kerdesekre en is szivesen valaszolok.

Andras

--- #1 ---
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--- #2 ---

Centre for Telematics and Information
Technology 

Vacancy for a Research Assistant

The CTIT, Centre for Telematics and Information Technology, is a
multi-disciplinary research institute of the University of Twente.
It coordinates the research activities in all the areas relevant to
the development, the introduction and the usage of telematics and
information-technology systems.

Within the CTIT there is a vacancy for a 

	Research Assistant for research in the area of signalling
	for B-ISDN

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Applications

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Prof. dr. ir. I.G.M.M. Niemegeers
CTIT/University of Twente
P.O. Box 217
7500 AE Enschede
The Netherlands

JP>Once in Hungary, he probably married a Hungarian lesser
JP>noble woman whose name it is not known. She might have
JP>been a Szapolyai,

No authentic source proves that.(See: Varju Elemer: A Hunyadiak sirem-
lekei a gyulafehervari szekesegyhazban, Magyarorszag Muemlekei I.k.
Bp,1905, 94-97)

Bonfini suggested that his wife came from a noble Greek family which
is absurd. Another family who might have supplied the bride was the
Morzsinai family (Heltai wrote that Janos was the son of Zsigmond and
Morzsinai Erzsebet. As a matter of fact the Morzsinai family lived in
Hunyad county and had some court document together with the Hunya-
dy family.)
/*---*/

JP>So even if dismissing the Sigismund "liason" legend, Iancu still turns
JP>out to be half Hungarian.

LI>You might be correct here. However, one should stress Held's
LI>very careful choice of words in dealing with Hunyadi's origin:
LI>"he probably...", "she might...", and especially "we know next to
LI>nothing of his ancestry". Thus, although Voyk married in
LI>Transylvania it is not certain that the Szapolyai woman was
LI>Hunyadi's real mother. Actually, one can think of several reasons
LI>why she was rather his step-mother:

LI>1.According to the chronicle of the counts Cilli,
LI>the elder Janos was born in Wallachia: "it is known that
LI>this Janos Hunyadi was born in Wallachia..."

Well, this might had been the result of hatred. Cilley was an
enemy of the Hunyady family. Once earlier he wrote that J. H.
was "not an appropiate noble".

LI>Also, the contemporary chronicler Thuroczi mentioned that the family
LI>[not Voyk alone, but the "family"] was from Wallachia. This is strong
LI>evidence, I think, that Janos was born before Voyk's Transylvanian
LI>marriage.

"Fertur enim, quod rex Sigismundus virtutis nomine genitoris militis
huius pulsatus illum partibus de Transalpinis suum traduxisset..."
"Mondjak ugyanis, hogy Zsigmond kiralyt e vitez apjanak hire-neve vet-
te ra, hogy ot Havasalfold videkerol a sajat hazajaba hozza..."
(Johannes de Turocz: Chronica Hungarorum)

LI>2.The patent issued in 1409 by king Sigismund mentioned
LI>Voyk his brothers Radul and Magos, Voyk's son Janos, and
LI>his nephew also called Radul. The fact that the young Janos
LI>was included in this document was considerd evidence for his
LI>royal ancestry. However, a 1448 letter written in Janos' name
LI>by Janos Vitez was long accepted as proof that Hunyadi was over
LI>60 years old. Thus, if one accepts that Janos was over 60
LI>yers old in 1448, his mentioning in the original patent of
LI>king Sigismund simply means that in 1409 he was considered
LI>among the adult male members of the family. Therefore,
LI>neither him nor uncle Magos, not even cousin Radul, was related
LI>in any special way to the king. They were just men of
LI>exceptional qualities.

Hunyad's so early birth was confuted on the basis of some origi-
nal sources. We know, that Kapisztranoi Janos was born in 1386
and died in 1456. Hunyadi once tried to talk him out of a long
and exhausting journey, and hinted at his old age. Aeneas Silvius
also wrote that the priest died of old age while Hunyadi died of
illness. Based on these and other sources (which close out that
he was younger) we can say that Hunyady possibly was born once
between 1395 and 1400.
/*---*/

LI>3.Hunyadi did not know Latin.

And neither Czech. I mixed up him with his son.
/*---*/

LI>Don't you agree that this is very strange for someone raised by a
LI>Szapolyai mother ?

Unlikely that his father had such noble wife. The Polish Dlugosz
wrote that even J. Hunyady was still not a rich noble at the begin-
ning of his carrier. ("szereny es csekely allapotjarol" ir szo
szerint)
/*---*/

LI>Voyk sired three sons Janos, Janos Jr. (!)  and Voyk Jr.
LI>and perhaps one or two daughters of whom only one is
LI>known to us by name.

JP>I've never heard of having two
JP>children of a family in Hungary be given the same name.

Well, the younger son was called Johan, the older was called
Johannes by the  king Sigismund granting at 1409. So one got
Hungarian the other Romanian name.

LI>Hungarian historians have sometimes attempted to deny
LI>Hunyadi's Wallachian origin.

JP>This is new to me, because Hunyady's Wallachian background was written
JP>up even by one of the greatest Hungarian poets of the 19th century.
JP>But it was treated only on that legend level in the Hungarian
highschool
JP>curricula.

LI>Held gives the following references:
LI>Homan, B., 1936, Magyar Tortenet, 5 vols., Budapest.

I checked this book, and Homan did not say that he was not Romanian.
He said that a group of 'kenez' complained to the king in 1374 because
the voivode Lajk made an alliance with the Turks. Here, Vayk son of
Radul/Radoszlo/Rodul was first mentioned  amongst others who weared
Slav names. Homan wrote Radul as "Radoszlo" actualy. But he mentions
Vajk as "Olah Vajk", and in a previous chapter he discussed the 'kenezek'
lengthly as Romanians or Olahs.

Tamas

Are there any PROFESSIONAL real estate agents out there that are also
Hungarian. If you are one of them, or perhaps know one please send me
their address so that I may add them to my list. NO AMATEURS OR PART
TIMERS PLEASE!!!

I specialize in residential real estate and I'm establishing a Hungarian
Realtor Network.

Thanks for your help.


 Steve
The Hungarian Realtor

Man are you some kind of idiot or something?  Take your stupid shit off 
of this medium and talk to a wall, it would do everyone a whole lot of 
good.  You defend HOS for most of your paper and then seem to accuse 
Domagoj of being some sort of ustasa?  What the hell is HOS then?   
Please, I love it when I find people like yourself who think they are so 
bright and overanalyze a peice of shit sitting on the floor until they 
get so damn close their face falls into it and that is exactly what you 
are doing now.  You spent your time spewing crap and in the end made no 
sense at all.

By the way both of my parents are Dalmatian and very much Croatian 
regardless of who the president is.  Why don;t you stick to a topic you 
know about and stop trying to be a Croat.  You were nothing for your 
whole life and stop trying to be something you will never be...a Croat.  
Yugoslavs should just forget about this whole area and shutup.




Y Rapido ) wrote:
: Domagoj ) wrote:


: : On Thu, 20 Jul 1995, Domagoj wrote:

: :  
: :  Firstly Mr Alec Cosic my parents are both Dalmatian but Croatian first.

: [deleted, full version available in the original posting]

: Fine and dandy Mr. Dalmatian.  Most of the text is respectable, true and 
: appropriate.  However, from the standpoint of the Bosnian nation 
: (original Bosnjak, a.k.a. Bosnian Muslim, not accurate) there are several 
: questions to Dalmatians in regards to the 1990-1995 policy of the 
: Croatian leadership in Zagreb.  One might assume that Dalmatians ARE 
: mostly going along with it (although Mr. Sipe Mesic does have some 
: honorable disagreement, that is not strong enough to prevail, as it seems 
: ...). 

: #1.  Why did Franjo Tudjman murder several Croatian (!) commanders in 
: 1992, when they went to liberate Eastern Herzegovina ? One immediately 
: thinks of General Blaz Kraljevic and several other patriots.  The answer 
: is that Tudjman PREFERS Serbian vugar murderers of Vucurevic's ilk to 
: control the entire territory from Peljesac to Prevlaka, rather than to 
: have Bosnian Army, HOS and HVO control those territories, as could have 
: been achieved when the Bosnian Armed forces and HOS, commanded by Gen. 
: Kraljevic entered (!) Trebinje in the summer of 1992 !  Since Dubrovnik 
: riviera is 30 feet "wide" at certain spots on a rocky mountain road above 
: the sea, that means that Serb have 1/3 of Adriatic coast "by the balls".  
: They can get drunk on any given day and flop mortar shells all over 
: Dalmatian beaches to their endless whims and sadistic pleasures ! 

: 2.  Same control Serbs exert over mid-Dalmatia in the region of Sibenik 
: and Zadar.  They have been bombarding Zadar during the past four years 
: with careless abandon ...  There, also, Tudjman prefers to have Serbs 
: control the coast, rather than participate in liberation of the Republic 
: of Bosnia-Herzegovina ... etc. etc. 

: In other words, Mr. Dalmatian, your leadership WISHES to have Serbs 
: control dalmacia, more than it wishes to have Bosnian nation and the 
: Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina survive this joint Serbo-Croatian 
: murderous onslaught (1992-1995).  

: How come, Mr. Dalmatian that you are so proud of your anti-fascist past, 
: when you have a "certified" Nazi regime in Zagreb, along the lines of 
: each and every South American junta ... almost ... not 100%, but almost 
: there !  Tudjman enjoys 50% popularity in Croatia (Re: "Globus" weekly 
: info), which is an enormous popularity for any leader, especially when 
: one thinks about the fact that there are no even serious contenders.  
: budisa is a lame duck, and he is doing actually nothing but keeping a 
: "safe voting buffer zone" for Tudjman, in effect, really ...

: Do you, Mr. Dalmatian possess a geographical map, and could you see what 
: is going on ?  Thank you ...

: IN defence of Bosnia ...

: rap

*** Greetings from Hungarian-American List ***
      ***    http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/     ***
      ***     mailto:        ***


CONTROVERSY RAGES OVER LEADERS OF SLOVAKIA'S HUNGARIAN MINORITY. Recent
statements made by the chairmen of the three ethnic Hungarian parties
represented in the parliament (see OMRI Daily Digest, 19 July 1995)
continue to cause controversy in Slovakia. Sme on 26 July reported that
the Slovak National Party has requested that the attorney-general start
criminal proceedings against the three chairmen. The party said it aims
to pass a law on the protection of the republic at the September
parliamentary session. The Slovak Green Alternative (SZA), which is also
allied with the ruling coalition, proposed on 25 July that a new round
of talks between the Slovak and Hungarian premiers be launched to
clarify certain aspects of the bilateral state treaty. Also on 25 July,
the three Hungarian party chairmen met with US Ambassador to Slovakia
Theodore Russell, but no information about the meeting was released to
the press. Meanwhile, the Slovak Education Ministry has expressed
"concern" about a protest demonstration by ethnic Hungarians scheduled
for 27 July in Debrecin, Pravda reported. The ethnic Hungarians want to
protest a draft law on the state language and the implementation of
"alternative" (bilingual) education. -- Sharon Fisher, OMRI, Inc.

HUNGARIAN POLICE ARREST FORMER UKRAINIAN PRESIDENTIAL SECURITY CHIEF.
Victor Palivoda, head of security for former Ukrainian President Leonid
Kravchuk, has been arrested in Hungary, AFP reported. A police spokesman
said Palivoda was taken into custody on 11 July in Budapest. He is
wanted by Interpol and the Ukrainian authorities on embezzlement
charges. The Hungarian Justice Ministry will decide the date for his
extradition to Ukraine, the spokesman added. -- Jan Cleave, OMRI, Inc.

WHO IS NEXT? The Serbs appear to have Gorazde next on their list,
although the U.S. State Department has warned them to be cautious, the
VOA said. NATO continued on 25 July to be hamstrung in drawing up a plan
for air strikes should the Serbs attack Gorazde or the other remaining
"safe areas." The problem is that the alliance has conceded the UN's
right to a veto over strikes, and it can only hope that Secretary-
General Boutros Boutros Ghali will delegate such authority to a UNPROFOR
commander on the ground. The International Herald Tribune on 26 July
reported that the Rapid Reaction Force may not be doing much in
Sarajevo, either. In response to a question about whether British and
French forces will open the supply road on Mt. Igman, a British
spokesman said it is not an "easy military option" since it would
involve taking land and silencing Serbian guns. On 26 July, one of those
guns shelled downtown Sarajevo, seriously wounding six, Reuters
reported. -- Patrick Moore, OMRI, Inc.

REACTIONS TO ROMANIAN EDUCATION LAW. The promulgation of a new education
law by Romanian President Ion Iliescu on 24 July has sparked various
reactions. The extreme nationalist Greater Romania Party--an ally of the
ruling Party of Social Democracy in Romania--was one of the first
organizations to express "satisfaction" over the new legislation. Most
political parties, including several in opposition, praised the
government's determination not to give in to what they described as
"pressure from the Hungarian Democratic Federation of Romania (UDMR)."
But Horia Rusu, chairman of the Liberal Party '93, was quoted as saying
that the UDMR's protest was justified because Romania was not abiding by
international norms on education for ethnic minorities. UDMR Chairman
Bela Marko, in a letter to European Parliament Chairman Klaus Hansch,
said his party was disappointed with Bucharest's reaction to the EP's
recent resolution on minority and human rights abuses in Romania. -- Dan
Ionescu, OMRI, Inc.

MOSKOVSKII KOMSOMOLETS CHARGES CONCERNING REGIONAL TV REFUTED. Internews
Executive Director Manana Aslamazian and Glasnost Defense Foundation
Chairman Aleksei Simonov wrote to the editors of Moskovskii komsomolets
protesting that newspaper's unsigned article of 20 July, which alleged
that Internews was behind an attempted "American takeover" of regional
television in Russia (see OMRI Daily Digest, 21 July). The letters point
out numerous factual errors the article, including the following:
Internews, an international non-profit organization, is not funded by or
linked to the U.S. Information Agency; Internews did not create the
Independent Broadcasting System (IBS), a commercial network of regional
television stations in Russia; and Internews neither controls
administratively nor finances the IBS. -- Laura Belin, OMRI, Inc.

KYRGYZ TROOPS TO PARTICIPATE IN NATO EXERCISES. The Kyrgyz Defense
Ministry announced on 25 July that a platoon of Kyrgyz soldiers will
take part in NATO exercises to be held in the U.S. from 6 to 28 August,
according to ITAR-TASS. Although Kyrgyzstan joined NATO's Partnership
for Peace program in June 1994, the country's neutrality status prevents
it from becoming a member of NATO. -- Bruce Pannier, OMRI, Inc.
  
[As of 12:00 CET]
[As of 1200 CET]
Compiled by Jan Cleave
Compiled by Victor Gomez

This material was reprinted with permission of the Open Media 
Research Institute, a Prague-based nonprofit organization.

       Copyright (C) 1995 Open Media Research Institute, Inc.
                    All rights reserved.

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