HIX HUNGARY 615 Copyright (C) HIX
 1996-03-22
 Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelõssége) Megrendelés Lemondás
 1. Re: Main St. and Wall St. (mind) 51 sor (cikkei) 2. SWITZERLANDIAN MAGYAROK>??? (mind) 11 sor (cikkei) 3. Penpal wanted (mind) 7 sor (cikkei) 4. Wanted: Unbiased information. (mind) 26 sor (cikkei) 5. Re: Paprika/Peppers (mind) 20 sor (cikkei) 6. Re: Szabad (mind) 12 sor (cikkei) 7. Re: leadership, etc (mind) 32 sor (cikkei) 8. Re: AUSTRALIAN HUNGARIAN NEEDS Hungarians to talk to (mind) 12 sor (cikkei) 9. What happened at the MDF Congress? (mind) 36 sor (cikkei) 10. It is NOT the Yale Library (mind) 40 sor (cikkei) 11. Re: Paprika/Peppers (mind) 15 sor (cikkei) 12. Szucs_Andras@PUBLIC.SILICONVALLEY.COM (mind) 5 sor (cikkei) 13. Re: What happened at the MDF Congress? (mind) 40 sor (cikkei) 14. Re: leadership, etc (mind) 34 sor (cikkei) 15. Re: leadership, etc (mind) 52 sor (cikkei) 16. Re: Buttie (mind) 17 sor (cikkei) 17. hungary info (mind) 2 sor (cikkei) + - Re: Main St. and Wall St. (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) > Felado : [Canada] > > >and the Bank of England being a pawn of the government > > You say this with a certain amount of disdain. Why? Do you not like > government elected by the people making economic decisions? Who should the > Bank of England be a pawn of, if not the government? After all, doesn't the > government just accommodate the wishes of the moneyed classes? Government to a large extent accommodates the wishes of the moneyed classes, I'd say to a considerably larger extent that it should, but others will no doubt disagree. Be it as it may, I don't want the government to have a large budget with a large deficit and the authority to print money. To the extent that the deficit puts a burden on future generations, it is taxation without representation and as such it should be avoided, quite independent of whether we have future generations of "the moneyed classes" or future generations of the general population in mind. So to have the power of the government to run a deficit checked and balanced by an independent Federal Reserve is a very sound idea. As for your larger question, whether I like government elected by the people making economic decisions, the brief answer is no. Government elected by the people, put in place by the senior officers in the army, imposed by an outside power, emerging as the victorious faction in a civil war, and in general any government coming from any source whatsoever has to be divested of as much power as possible. Some core functions should of course remain, providing for the common defense, insuring domestic tranquility, that sort of thing. But making economic decisions is not among these core functions -- promoting the general welfare is, and it is abundantly clear that the more the government messes with the economy the more the general welfare suffers. The Bank of England actually provided a rather striking example of this when they started to dabble in foreign exchange speculation. They of course called it "Defending the Pound" and ended up losing billions of their taxpayers money, money they shouldn't have gambled with in the first place. Just because Greg Lamont was elected by the people (or at least answered to politicians so elected) there is no reason to believe that he understands the forex business half as well as George Soros (who walked away with a fair chunk of these billions) understands it. The point is that people can't democratically elect a "Strong Pound" or "Franc Fort" just as they can't vote to have less rain next year. Actually, they can vote whatever they want, they can even legislate \pi to be 3. But in such cases something has to give, and the taxpayer usually ends up being the one. > Don't worry about not having any qualifications in economics, Andras. I'm > enough of a democrat (perhaps unwisely) to welcome all opinions and comments. Why thank you! It is awfully nice of you to let me have my say. Gee, and to imagine you could actually demand qualifications, but you are magnanimous enough to refrain from actually doing so, contenting yourself by merely pointing out that I don't have any, isn't that really something. Andra1s Kornai + - SWITZERLANDIAN MAGYAROK>??? (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) Hi, If you live in switzerland or Canada, (my two dream places in all the world) write to me, the Hungarian, Australian.... Thanks Gabor -- Mr Gabor Kollo, , First Year Student + - Penpal wanted (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) I am a thirteen year old girl who lives in Vancouver, British Columbia Canada. My Dad never talks to me in hungarian (may be becouse my Mom does not speak Hungarian) but I realy like to hear from other Hungarian girls who speak the langauge It does not matter if you live in Hungary or other country as long as I can see and read Hungarian. I could ask my Dad to help me. Any one out there with the same interest? + - Wanted: Unbiased information. (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) Dear people of : A fiend of mine who does not have access to the Internet, has asked me to make a general inquiry about life in Hungary today. It is many years since my friend was in Hungary. The basis of the inquiry is to prepare for a kind of self directed vacation there. We would ask only that the information any of you, who are knowledgeable about modern day Hungary, be unbiased. That is, not simple chamber of commerce style boosterism on one hand or an obvious cynical diatribe on the other. In short, a tell-it-like-it-is observation. I know this sounds like an immense undertaking, but please, we are not looking for a book. Short descriptions of the current political structure, employment and unemployment, law enforcement and crime, education, arts, land tenure, accommodation for travelers, general attitudes toward visitors etc., and anything else you might think interesting would be in order. After that, I hope it will be possible to follow up on specific items if that is necessary. Your attention to this request is appreciated. Edwin in Saskatchewan, Canada. > + - Re: Paprika/Peppers (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) > > No Hungarian content but (I think) useful: > > Having undergone (and still suffering from the after-effects of) > kidney-stone pains and then lithotripsy treatment, I learned a lot about > them. Among other things I learned that green peppers are a major source of > oxalate, the major component in the most frequent form of kidney-stone. > > My advice: take it easy with the pepper consumption, it is not worth it. > > Gabor D. Farkas But what green peppers have to do with paprika? The former has thick bitter skin, making it undesirable as a sandwich component. However the white/yellow even if it is called "zoldpaprika" (why is zoldbab called that, when in Hungary that is also white/yellow?) is just best with a ham/cheese or teliszalami buttie. Eva Durant + - Re: Szabad (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) The relavant HVG issue has no mention at all on any racist remark at the conference, even though Szabad's proposal was included. In the interview with the new vice-president of the Lezsak-fraction the reporter asked if the apology - as mentioned by a correspondent here - happened, he sai, it did not. (I can't remember his name.) So in this case it seems, perhaps there was no racism. I did not find any "live" proof of it when I was in Hungary last, however, there were plenty graffitis and tales of contaminated media. Eva Durant + - Re: leadership, etc (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) > If people in developed, western nations, give up hopes that > leadership, enlightened or otherwise, can make a difference, then we may be > in for a decline. Just look at the low voter turnout in many elections. > That's just one of the many social costs of "free" markets. The economic > costs will have to be tabulated later, after the fall. > > I think people should start to look for policies and not "style of leadership" which usually boils down who is more "lovable" on the tv screens. If people are disenchanted, the reason is that there are no actual differences in what governments do, but they also say the same things - what their market-research teams told the they should say. None of them offer any new strategies to solve the immense problems of the variously "developed" worlds, and that what their job supposed to be. At most they dig up some old ideas, that failed before in more advantageous circumstances (less govt control/more govt. control, integration/competition, strong currency/ weak currency - they all and up being "bad" for the economy eventually, and even if the economy is pronounced "healthy" wages are worth less.) What they are professional about is: lying. The best are the tories. Making people belive that they actually pay less tax, when VAT doubled, local taxes tripled and NHS contributions doubled... services shrivelled... need I go on... The Hungarians have a lot to learn from these mature democracies... Eva Durant + - Re: AUSTRALIAN HUNGARIAN NEEDS Hungarians to talk to (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) At 03:38 PM 3/20/96 GMT, you wrote: >Hi. I don't speak any Hungarian but I too have deep roots there. My >mother's entire family(Edenhoffer) is from Pecs, and my brother is >currently studying there. > >I am a first year student at the University of Texas at Austin. >Here's my e-mail address: > mbachers @mail.utexas.edu > The Edenhoffter family is a very old Pecs family indeed. Eva Balogh, also from Pecs + - What happened at the MDF Congress? (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) I just received the March 12 issue of *168 Ora," a Hungarian weekly. In it there is a longish article by Attila Bujak and Laszlo Bartus on the MDF Congress which resulted in the split within party ranks. As I mentioned earlier the Congress was held without the presence of the media and therefore we know only what happened from the description of those present. According to Gyorgy Kadar, who had talked to three such people, there were no antisemitic remarks uttered in connection with Gyorgy Szabad's attempt at postponing the election of a new party chief. On the other hand, we read on the Internet that there were such remarks. Let's see, for the sake of historical accuracy, what Bartus and Bujak have to say about the incidence. First, in Hungarian: "A tanuk szerint (MDNP) volt kormanytagok, miniszterek is meltatlanul viselkedtek.' Furcsa bekiabalasok is elhangzottak: kussolj, te ven...' (es itt egy ferfias szerv neve kovetkezik). Takarodj!' .... Az egyik kepviselo szerint egy torpe minoritas alpari modon zsidozott." Here is the translation: "According to eyewitnesses (MDNP) 'former members of the government, cabinet members behaved in an unworthy manner.' Strange utterances could be heard: 'shut up, you old . . . (here the name of a male organ follows). Get out of here!' .... According to one parliamentary member a tiny minority yelled anti-Jewish slogans in a most vulgar manner." The tiny minority can be one or two persons. But it can be more. We don't know how many. In any case, it seems that according to at least one person anti-semitism, at least in small measure, was present. I am sure that in the next few days I will be able to collect more newspaper descriptions of the MDF meeting and perhaps we will be able to find exactly what happened. Eva Balogh + - It is NOT the Yale Library (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) I forewarned you to watch out for her idiotic emotions Eva Balogh would reveal by the "excuse" of her not knowing even the most basic elementary school-stuff (that percentages are not additive as she used them). Here she goes again. She would like us believe that the Yale Library is at fault: "Unfortunately, in my own library I can't find the exact figures on voters, only the percentages in parliament." Eva Balogh either (a) still does not understand that ADDITION of percentages is absolutely WRONG as she used it, no matter what the "exact figures on voters" are. Or, (b) she thinks that _WE ARE_ SO STUPID that we don't know that percentages are not additive as she used them, and thus we take her outright lie as a valid excuse. If (b) is true, it is a horrific insult to the intelligence of readers of Internet-lists. It is a fact, though Eva Balogh apparently will never learn, that computer-users would never accept anyone as a "renaissance scholar" with "universal expertise", that she would like us to take her. Fact is, anyone with any respect for economics certainly disqualifies her expertise e.g. in economics, once her in- competence is revealed in basic math. Her "Mea Culpa" for a basic mathematical mistake is totally hollow also for an emotional reason that apparently she again does not understand. No one BLAMED her for being ignorant in mathematics. She has to absolute privilege of being as stupid in math (and as idiotic in her emotions) as she desires. What she does NOT have a right, is to claim expertise, once PROVEN WRONG. No sane person can take her "declarations" ("kinyilatkoztatasok") seriously in economics, for instance, once she is proven DOUBLEFOLD incompetent in basic math (and she has therefore no authority to "dismiss" economists such as Dr. Gidai). Likewise, no sane person can take her "declaration" ("kinyilatkoztatasok") seriously in history, for instance, once she "declared" that "in Hungarian we do not use "szabadsagharc" for 1956". No one expects any "mea culpa" (or anything, any more) from Eva Balogh. She can say anything with zero consequence. + - Re: Paprika/Peppers (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) At 12:16 PM 3/21/96 +0100, Eva Durant wrote: >But what green peppers have to do with paprika? >The former has thick bitter skin, making it undesirable >as a sandwich component. However the white/yellow >even if it is called "zoldpaprika" (why is zoldbab called >that, when in Hungary that is also white/yellow?) >is just best with a ham/cheese or teliszalami buttie. I don't disagree, I like it too. However, I think all peppers have the same origin (seems to be South America?). As a matter of fact paprika is the Hungarian word for pepper (but I think you knew that). But what is a buttie? It is not in any of my dictionaries, does it have anything to do with butt;-? Gabor D. Farkas + - Szucs_Andras@PUBLIC.SILICONVALLEY.COM (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) There is one good part in this guy's latest message to us: "_WE ARE_ SO STUPID" Mr. Szucs is using the royal plural but I am sure he speaks for himself. Gabor D. Farkas + - Re: What happened at the MDF Congress? (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) On Thu, 21 Mar 1996, Eva S. Balogh wrote: > I just received the March 12 issue of *168 Ora," a Hungarian weekly. > In it there is a longish article by Attila Bujak and Laszlo Bartus on the > MDF Congress which resulted in the split within party ranks. As I mentioned > earlier the Congress was held without the presence of the media and > therefore we know only what happened from the description of those present. > According to Gyorgy Kadar, who had talked to three such people, there were > no antisemitic remarks uttered in connection with Gyorgy Szabad's attempt at > postponing the election of a new party chief. On the other hand, we read on > the Internet that there were such remarks. Let's see, for the sake of > historical accuracy, what Bartus and Bujak have to say about the incidence. > > > "According to eyewitnesses (MDNP) 'former members of the government, cabinet > members behaved in an unworthy manner.' Strange utterances could be heard: > 'shut up, you old . . . (here the name of a male organ follows). `Get out of > here!' .... According to one parliamentary member a tiny minority yelled > anti-Jewish slogans in a most vulgar manner." > > The tiny minority can be one or two persons. But it can be more. We > don't know how many. In any case, it seems that according to at least one > person > anti-semitism, at least in small measure, was present. > > I am sure that in the next few days I will be able to collect more > newspaper descriptions of the MDF meeting and perhaps we will be able to > find exactly what happened. > > Eva Balogh I must ask myself after all this: what possible difference can it make to anyone, whether a "tiny majority" in a meeting of a by now insignificant party yelled anti-Semitic remarks or not, in whatever context? Does it show that what's left of the MDF is anti-Semitic, q.e.d.? Or that Hungarians are anti-Semitic, q.e. etiam d.? - But who yelled the vulgarities? L. J. Elteto + - Re: leadership, etc (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) In article >, Joe Szalai > says: >I think that leaders today can elevate a society/nation/country to a level >that already exists, or, they can ruin it. Mandela may raise S. Africa to >Western European levels and I would consider that good. But do you think >that he can go beyond that? Can any leader? I like to believe in the possibilty, even if it seems fanciful... >I think not. And that can be >problematic. If people in developed, western nations, give up hopes that >leadership, enlightened or otherwise, can make a difference, then we may be >in for a decline. Despite your *I think not*, you seem to want to believe in the possibility, too (through the pessimism.) >Just look at the low voter turnout in many elections. >That's just one of the many social costs of "free" markets. The economic >costs will have to be tabulated later, after the fall. Humanoids seem to be gradually wisening up to the *career bullshit brigade* (i.e., the politicians), in our information age. I, too, am torn between pessimism and hope. Regards, George George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: * Independent Commodore Products Users' Group UK * C=64 stuff wanted * * ACCU ** ARM Club ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list * + - Re: leadership, etc (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) In article >, Eva Durant > says: > >> If people in developed, western nations, give up hopes that >> leadership, enlightened or otherwise, can make a difference, then we may be >> in for a decline. Just look at the low voter turnout in many elections. >> That's just one of the many social costs of "free" markets. The economic >> costs will have to be tabulated later, after the fall. >I think people should start to look for policies and not >"style of leadership" which usually boils down who is >more "lovable" on the tv screens. Policies, ideas, etc, come from people, don't forget. Joe, yourself and yours truly, have already made it clear that we are unlikely to be impressed by anything as superficial as style of or being lovable on TV. This sort of stuff does seem to take in large numbers of the electorate in our so-called democracies, though; your previous posting that mentioned educating the public hit the nail on the head. When will governments have a ministry for raising human consciousness? Who would ever have the nerve to implement such a policy in today's politico- economic climate? An enlightened, leader, with our support, perhaps? :-) >If people are disenchanted, the reason is that there >are no actual differences in what governments do, >but they also say the same things - what their >market-research teams told the they should say. >None of them offer any new strategies to solve >the immense problems of the variously "developed" worlds, >and that what their job supposed to be. At most >they dig up some old ideas, that failed before in more >advantageous circumstances (less govt control/more >govt. control, integration/competition, strong currency/ >weak currency - they all and up being "bad" for the economy >eventually, and even if the economy is pronounced "healthy" >wages are worth less.) >What they are professional about is: lying. The best are >the tories. Making people belive that they actually pay less tax, >when VAT doubled, local taxes tripled and NHS contributions >doubled... services shrivelled... need I go on... Yes, right! Regards, George George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: * Independent Commodore Products Users' Group UK * C=64 stuff wanted * * ACCU ** ARM Club ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list * + - Re: Buttie (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) Gabor D. Farkas wrote: > But what is a buttie? > It is not in any of my dictionaries, does it have anything to do with butt;-? A pommie (English) word for sandwich. (But bigger?) So a bacon buttie would be two uncut slices of buttered bread, with a hunk of bacon between them. Garry. ############################################################################ # Better a dry crust # Internet: # # with peace and quiet, # Garry Collins, Electronics Dev't,# # than a house full of feasting, # PEC (New Zealand) Ltd Marton # # with strife. Proverbs 17:1 # New Zealand Tel +64 6 327 8189 # ############################################################################ + - hungary info (mind) VÁLASZ Feladó: (cikkei) Please send the questions you are exactly interested in, otherwise it could be a long long message.
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