Also of course all what you are saying has nothing to do with the
	point I am making:

	The point I am making is this:

	  No Turk was ever given any privilge or oportunity by Ottoman as
	  "timar" or any position in Ottoman power hierarchi; on the contrary,
	  all Turks were deliberately kept by the Ottoman sytsem of oppression,
	  which was composed of all devshirmes who were former Christian 
	  converts of Greek, Armenian, and other Eastern European origins, as 
	  the most ignorant and powerless socially, economically and every 
	  other way.




)Galina Schneider.
)
)Of course, this has nothing to do with the German Reformation



In article ),  ) wrote:
)-Surensoy,E. wrote:
)) 
)) In article ),  ) wrote:
)) )-Surensoy,E. wrote:
)) ))
)) ))         No Turk was ever given any privilge or oportunity by Ottoman as
)) ))         "timar" or any position in Ottoman power hierarchi; on the contra
ry,
)) ))         all Turks were deliberately kept by the Ottoman sytsem of oppress
ion,
)) ))         which was composed of all devshirmes who were former Christian co
nverts
)) ))         of Greek, Armenian, and other Eastern European origins, as the mo
st
)) ))         ignorant and powerless socially, economically and every other way
.
)) ))
)) ))         On the other hand Barbarossa's father was a very successfull Jani
ssary
)) ))         that's why he was given a good timar; according to the Ottoman
)) ))         devshirme procedures, he was taken from his Greek Ortadox family
)) ))         when he was 8-9 years old as a tax and trained at an Ottoman mili
tary
)) ))         school as a janissary in which he excelled so well that he was
)) ))         promoted to higher ranks ("timarli sipahi" a cavalry soldier) and
)) ))         given a timar as his retirement pension by his Ottoman masters wh
o
)) ))         were devshirmes, including Suleyman, like himself was one.
)) ))
)) ))         Nevetheless, Barbarossa was a corsair for almost all his life; an
d it
)) ))         shows how unethical the Ottoman system of oppression was in choos
ing
)) ))         its people.
)) ))
)) ))                                 ../..
)) ))
)) ))
)) )
)) )Dear Enis,
)) )
)) )You are incorrect in saying that no Christian could be given the timarlik
)) )income.  A relevant early example is that Mehmed II , the Conqueror gave
)) )huge holding in Macedonia to both Mara Brankovic, his stepmother, and her
)) )father, George Brankovic, the Serbian successor state prince who later
)) )moved out of Osmanli control.  So you see, this was common in the 14th
)) )century.  It should also be note that this basiclaly relicated the
)) )Byzantine tax collection system in principle with the addition of the
)) )head tax added to it.
)) )
)) )
)) )Galina Schneider
)) )
)) 
))         I did not say "no Christian could be given the timarlik income"; I
))         actuall said that No Turk was ever given any privilge or oportunity
))         by Ottoman as "timar" or any position in Ottoman power hierarchi; on
))         the contrary, all Turks were deliberately kept by the Ottoman sytsem
))         of oppression, which was composed of all devshirmes who were former
))         Christian converts.
)) 
))         Yes, Ottoman gave all kinds of concessions and privilidges to
))         Christians under their rule for political and other benefits in
))         return from them.Here is on Barbarossa:
)
)ref.:  Pitcher, Donald Edgar, An Historical Geography of the Ottoman 
)Empire, Cox and Wyman, London, 1968, pp.118-119, section called "The 
)Sailors":
)
)actual name:  "Barbaros" Hayrudden hizir Pasa, known as Khayr al-Din, or 
)Khaireddin, or Barbarossa.
)
)former job:  Beylerbeyhi of Cezayir, appointed by SUleiman in 1519.
)
)
)called by Suleiman to reconstruct the imperial fleet:  1934, and he was 
)titled by Suleiman Kaptan- [Kapudan] -Pasa.
)
)died:  1546.
)
)It should be noted that Barbaros was not the only person in the position 
)he was given by Suleiman.  The position was established during Mehmed II 
)and was held by numerous individuals.  During Suleiman, the captainships, 
)if you would call them that, were split into three, corresponding to the 
)three sea campaigns initiated by Suleiman.
)
)Galina Schneider.
)
)Of course, this has nothing to do with the German Reformation
)

PLUNK!

Gabor Barsai ) writes:
> In article >,
> willy, the canadian pseudo poet and artificial artist wrote:
>>You are irrelevent -- PLUNK!
> 
> Wrong answer, buttmunch. You suck.
> 
> Gabor

>> That's why Jesus gave to the apostles the power to change the human semen
>> into the Holy Spirit.
>
> I agree that there is a strong parallel between the Holy Spirit and
> human semen in that human semen is involved in the creation of new
> life, and when the Holy Spirit comes upon a human being, he or she is
> filled with new life, but I don't understand what you are intending
> to say whgen you say that "Jesus gave to the apostles the power to
> change the human semen into the Holy Spirit.

I am intending to say that Jesus gave to the apostles the power
to manipulate the divine person of the Holy Spirit. They received
the power to force the Holy Spirit to take on himself the image
of their semen. Not the semen is holy, but the Holy Spirit
which looks like a semen. It is like Eucharist: the difference
between bread and wine and body and blood of Christ. Both look
same, but in fact it is completly different. The sinful sexual
acts like adultery or pederasty become with the Holy Spirit
holy.

>> Why it is important? Well, for example when you fuck a boy with a semen,
>> it is a sin (Leviticus 18:22), but if you fuck a boy with the Holy Spirit,
>> you bless him (Genesis 32:24-29).
>
> This seems to me to be saying that the passing on of the Holy
> Spirit from one person to another is very like sexual intercourse
> in that it is a gift of new life.  Am I correct?

Exactly.

>> What is without the Holy Spirit adultery, is with the Spirit blessing.
>
> Are you saying that the physical act of sex has to be an actual
> part of this blessing?  Or is the symbolic act - such as the laying
> on of hands enought to transmit the Holy Spirit?

The blessing is an ejaculation, i.e. when the Holy Spirit, which looks like
a semen, goes out trought someone's penis, and someone is filled
by the Holy Spirit.

> I Corinthians suggests that the early churches had sexual orgies as
> part of their worship.  Paul condemned this as being wrong.  My own
> opinion is that the form of pagan worship that was carried out by
> the gentile nations included sex-orgies - and Christianity held
> this to be wrong.  I wouldn't have thought that the spiritual orgy
> that you describe would have looked like a sex orgy - why do you
> feel that this is the case?

Well, the power over the Holy Spirit received Peter and apostles as whole.
These are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 16:3 (?), 18:18).
On this power is based the apostolic tradition of the Catholic Church.
Christians held the gentile sex-orgies to be wrong, because they
didn't believe that from the gentile proceed the Holy Spirit, and
they didn't belive that they have the power to force the Holy Spirit
to take on himself the image of their semen.

In case of Acts 2:1-4 is written about tongues which looked like tongues
of fire. From the context is also clear that by that tongues were
the apostles filled by the Holy Spirit. What is more natural to think
than that the tongues were the erected penises of the apostles, and that
the Holy Spirit, which looked like a semen proceeded through them.
They filled each other by the Holy Spirit.

To understand the crucial importance of the apostolic power help us
Platon in his famous work "Symposium" where he decribes the relations
between him and Socrates. Socrates was his teacher. Socrates met
Platon when he was 13 years old boy. The relations between them were
highly homoerotical. Socrates loved Platon, made with him love, and
taught him philosophy. He taucht him, because he loved him. I think
that this is exactly the thing that ensures the judeo-catholic continuation.
The knowledge and power of Torah goes hand-in-hand together with Eros. It is
the mystery of the relation father-son. In the Holy Trinity Christians
glorify the sacred homosexuality. The Father loves his Son, and he fill
him by the Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit proceeds from both:
from the Father and from the Son. The Catholic Church tries to incorporate
the life of the Holy Trinity in its own life. That's why there is
the obligation of celibacy (i.e. to be not married and no other obligation),
and inadmission of women to an active priesthood (because from woman cannot
proceed the Holy Spirit in his most natural image, i.e. that of semen).

+Mordekhai

Mordekhai wrote:
> 
> ===> God+Jacob <===
<and a whole bunch of other crap>

Why is this religious propaganda here on these soc.culture groups?  Go
away.

PLUNK!

Gyorgy Kovacs ) writes:
> Wally Keeler > wrote:
>>Nevertheless, you are irreleve/ant -- PLUNK!
> 
> Can't figure it out huh? No wonder ....

PLUNK!

Gabor Barsai ) writes:
> In article >,
> Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
>>Wally Keeler > wrote:
>>>
>>>SENTENCE 2: "We learned about age that in history class!"
>>>            Simply incomprehensible!
>>
>>Well if you hadn't skipped your English 101 classes, you would have been
>>able to unjumble the puzzle, by just reversing the order of the 4th and 5th
>>words. Can you see how easy it is, if you think?
> 
> But what can ya expect from a pseudo poet who writes poo-etry (creative 
> wordplay!). Willy contributes nada to society, he just takes up space.
> 
> Gabor

PLUNK!

Gyorgy Kovacs ) writes:
> Gabor Barsai > wrote:
>>>Wally Keeler > wrote:
>>>>            Simply incomprehensible!
>>>
>>>Well if you hadn't skipped your English 101 classes, you would have been
>>>able to unjumble the puzzle, by just reversing the order of the 4th and 5th
>>>words. Can you see how easy it is, if you think?
>>But what can ya expect from a pseudo poet who writes poo-etry (creative
>>wordplay!). Willy contributes nada to society, he just takes up space.
>>Gabor
> 
> C'mon, Gabor, I'm trying to educate this poor lost lamb! If we give him a 
> decade he might graduate to kindergarten! Besides he takes up much less space
> lately with his greatly reduced vocabulary, which consists of two words:
> irrelevent (wrong spelling) and PLUNK!
> GK

E-MAIL ADDRESSES OF HISTORIANS OF TURKISH HISTORY AND BOOKS ON TURKISH HISTORY

I am  Sauli Ingman from Finland. I am studying history at the university
of Helsinki.  I am  most interested in the relations between Sultan
Süleyman Kanuni, Emperor  Charles the V and his brother Ferdinand Archduke
of Austria, and the German Protestants. My special subject is how Turkey 
benefited from the German reformation as the Ottoman empire continued its
expansion  into Europe from 1521 onwards. Do you  know of any book or
article, about  how Turkey benefited from the German reformation, the
German and other Protestants and Martin Luther 1521 - 1606? Moreover, do
you know of any information available on the Internet on the same subject?

Are there any Turkish archiv sources on the same subject? I have a Turkish
point of view on this subject.

I am also interested in the history of Turkey generally.  I would like to
get e-mail addresses of historians  of Turkish history, because I would
like to discuss the history of Turkey with them.  

Please e-mail your messages directly to me. Thank you.

My e-mail is: 

Yours sincerely

Sauli Ingman

On 29 Oct 1996 08:45:29 GMT,  () wrote:
>
>I keep thinking what the equivalent Hungarian word would be for the
>American slang "cool", but can't think of any.  I'm sure the literal
>translation (hu"vo~s) isn't it.  Anybody?
>
>Joe
I've read all the responses so far and all include excellent
suggestions.  However, translating the word "cool" very much depends
on context and target audience.  I mean klasz, palya, fasza, kurva jo,
etc. are all good but it really depends whom I'm talking to:
"Got a new car Mom, that's cool. -- Uj kocsid van Mamam, klasz!"
"Got a new car man, cool. -- Uj autod van haver, fasza!"

Most recently I've come accross a new expression for "cool",
especially used by people using Internet: "rulez", spelled with z.
It's sure not more Hungarian than cool, still I often see it this way
in the meaning of cool -- kiraly.

There is an excellent and ever growing slang page at
http://www.idg.hu/internetto/cyber/zsargon/
Their server kept crashing recently so don't give up checking it, if
you don't get through first time.  It's cool :-)

Zsolt

Ottomans did not bother to have any diplomatic relations with
	any state until the 17th century. I believe France was the first 
	in that matter. Before then foreign envoys came to the Ottoman
	capital as they needed. So, during its stagnation and declining 
	centuries, roughly the last 300 years, Ottomans maintained
	envoys in major European capitals; and the official language
	of Ottoman diplomatic business was Armenian language and also
	maintained at such places Armenian Language translators; a very
	famous one of them was Gulbekian who was also known as "Mr 5%"
	beacuse he managed to chissel a 5% share for himself out of
	Ottoman-German-British-French oil deals because of his expertice
	in his mother tonge Armenian and Ottoman's lack of it. 
	

In article ),  > wrote:
)-       I did not say "Albanian being the "official" diplomatic language"
)        of Ottoman Empire; I said Armenian was the Ottoman diplomatic
)        language.
)
)
)Terribly sorry, I was thinking Armenian and spelled Albanian.  This was 
)still not the total case.  You have to provide which years in order ot 
)make it the official language for the entire hisotry of the Ottoman 
)Eempire.  I think there is evidence to the contrary.
)

 wrote:
> 
> Ivan Marinov  > wrote:
> >
> >Hat a magyar torveny nagyon kulonos ebbol a szempontbol. Majdnem mindenhol
> >mashol a szavazas allampolgari jog, s nem fugg a lakohelytol. Mivel
> >allampolgari jogrol van szo, itt nem szamit, hogy az illeto adofizeto-e vagy
> >sem. Hiszen ez tulajdonkeppen a magyar torveny szerint sem szamit, hiszen ha
> >egy kulfoldon elo, magyar allamnak adot nem fizeto magyar allampolgar
> >Magyarorszagra utazik a magyar valasztasok idejere, akkor o is szavazhat.
> >Szoval szerintem a magyar torveny erosen diszkrimanitiv es igazsagtalan.
> 
> Az otthoniak nagy resze nyilvan maskepen gondolja.
> Csak egy gondolat: nem lehet az, hogy ez is csak egy megnyilvanulasa a
> magyarok "hires" ossze-nem-tartasanak?  Az tuti, hogy a Romanok sokkal
> osszetartobbak, mint mi.
> 
> Pannon J.

Joe:

Ebben az osszetartasi kerdesben egyetertunk.  De szerintem az egyik oka
hogy miert nem szvazhatnak kulfoldi elo Magyarok az hogy nagyjabol a
kulfoldi Magyarok nem lennenek hajlandok MSZP-re szavazni.  Ez politikai
kerdes. 

HipCat
-- 
Visit my homepage!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/

PLUNK -- The sound of goober's post entering the trash can.

Gabor Barsai ) writes:
> In article >, Mpflerr > wrot
e:
>>Don't you guys ever get tired of this...?
> 
> Willybashing? Nah. Willy's too much of a conceited buffoon for me to stop. He
's
> a bigger shame to Canada than Tonya Harding is to the US. He's prejudiced 
> against anybody who's not like him. Thus, I can't stop.
> 
> Gabor

PLUNQUE

Gyorgy Kovacs ) writes:
> Poetician1 > wrote:
>>PLUNK!
> 
> Very nice. You can go on to potty training now.

PLUNQUE

Gabor Barsai ) writes:
> In article >,
> Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
>>Poetician1 > wrote:
> 
> Poetician? What's that? Is it in the Oxford Dic?
> Poetency? What's that? Is it in the Oxford Dic?
> Did willy, the canadian pseudo poet and artificial artist come up with these
> non-words? You really suck, willy, the canadian pseudo poet and artificial
> artist.
> 
>>>PLUNK!
>>
>>Very nice. You can go on to potty training now.
> 
> I don't know...I think he used up all his brain cells thinking about that wor
d.
> 
> I think willy, the canadian pseudo poet and artificial artist should be the
> poster-boy for birth control.
> 
> Ah, heck, I recommend that we vote willy, the canadian pseudo poet and
> artificial artist the "resident imbecile of scm" or riscum! Or is it better a
s
> "scm resident imbecile" scumri? He's already a resident imbecile in the pseud
o
> republic of pseudo poetry (ripropp)!
> 
> Gabor

PLUNQUE

Gyorgy Kovacs ) writes:
> Wally Keeler > wrote for the seventh (+/-5) time:
>>PLUNK!
> 
> What a shining methaphore, what a brilliant creative wordplay, what a poem!
> NOT!

Wally Keeler > wrote:
>PLUNQUE

See, all that practice and now you screw it up.