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1 Re: Interesting ... (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
2 Comments about a curious article (mind)  252 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Interesting ... (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: EC Art 1201 interpretation (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Interesting ... (mind)  80 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Hungarian Music Help (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Interesting ... (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Interesting ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>This, however, did not happened. I conclude from this fact that letting
>the diaspora vote would not change the result of the ballots, but it
>would be a nice symbolic measure.

Of course!  That's what it would amount to, a gesture to the former
refugees, a symbolic hand shake, projecting the message that says: "You
are part of us."  Instead what we get is the kind of jelous sophistry
we've seen here from Szucs and his clones.

I keep asking why is it that only Hungarians act this way?  Why is the
relationship among Hungarians so much different than among Poles or
Romanians, for instance?  But I don't get the answers. 

I suspect though, that eventual full European Union membership will
force the government to change this law because it's not in harmony with
the rest of the EU.

+ - Comments about a curious article (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi to all,
I am very interested in eastern european culture in general and in
the hungarian one in particular.
I have been in Hungary several times and I love the country; anyway,
I cannot say to know it sufficiently well...
I plan to learn the hungarian language very soon in order to better
help my interest.

Recently I have read an article on the net that I think could be
discussed in this newsgroup. I apologize if it has discussed before.

I wait for comments directly from hungarian people

Best regards

 vanni guarnieri



  Hungary, The Hollywood of porno

  By John Nadler and Emmanuelle Richard
  Copyright (c) 1995

During a recent visit to California, a Budapest resident discovered a shelf
devoted entirely to Hungary in the pornography section of a San Francisco
video store. The titles were forgettable and predictable, 'Sluts and Angels
in Budapest', and so on. On a lark, he rented a film and watched it in shock
as a team of nimble actors engaged in innovative sexual acts on moving public
transportation for the duration of the number 18 tram line. To his horror, as
the tram   fleeted past, he caught sight of his own apartment building
sandwiched between two pairs of gyrating butt cheeks.

  The moral of this story: Be careful what you touch on a number 18 tram.

Hungary is the European capital of pornographic film making. Or, as Italian
film producer and casting agent Gianfranco Romagnolli declares, Hungary "is
the center of the porno world."

Statistics back Romagnolli's claim. Eight to 10 pornographic movies are shot
in Hungary every month -- 10% of the continent's monthly output of 100
films, according to the business magazine "Privat Profit." Budapest's
community of porn actors, directors, and producers constitutes the
"greatest [talent] pool of resources of its kind in Europe concentrated
in a given place," reports France's HOT magazine, the "Variety" of European
blue movies. Ninety percent of Europe's erotic actresses are Hungarian-born,
say both French porn actor and director Christopher Clark. As a measure of
proof, the industry's biggest stars -- Ciccolina, Anita Rinaldi, Erica Bella,
Angelica Bella, and Simona Valli, to name only a few -- are all Hungarian
women masked behind Italian stage names. (Ciccolina was born Ilona Staller;
Rinaldi, Anita Skultety.)

  Even puritans cannot deny porn's positive impact. Erotic films are shot
  on MAFILM sound stages, pumping cash into the coffers of Hungary's
  ailing movie studio complex. Porn flics employ film crews, actors, and
  bring spin-off business to hotels, restaurants, and "location" owners
  throughout the country.

  Non the less, porn also harbors a viscous dark side -- child sex,
  the spread of AIDS, exploitation of women.

  For bad or for good, the question remains: Why has Euro porn chosen
  Budapest to be its Tinsel town?

  The simplest reason for the growth of erotic movie making here is that,
  unlike many European countries, "in Hungary there is no law [banning]
  pornographic movie making," says Romagnolli, co-owner of the Blue Angel,
  a local casting agency for porn actresses.

  "It is forbidden to use actors under 18 years of age," explains Istvan
  Kovacs, the owner of LUX video, Hungary's only local porn movie studio.
  "But there are no regulations banning perversities like sodomy, bestiality,

  But this permissive legal climate is not the only catalyst. According
  to industry analysts, the two most important factors behind the growth
  of porn in Hungary are the beauty of Magyar women, and the attitude of
  some in this culture towards sex.

  That Hungary's gene pool spawns an inordinately high percentage of
  female beauties is lore among visitors to this country and is echoed
  by erotic film makers. "Budapest will stay the [pornographic] center of
  Europe because of its girls," says Clark.

  Declares Kovacs: "Hungarian girls are the most beautiful in Europe."

  Since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, such generalizations are
  debatable. Safer to say that the typical Magyar 'look' -- a dark
  voluptuous east-west hybrid -- appears to be the industry's current
  "flavor of the week." According to Kovacs, Hungary has an "exotic
  reputation" among consumers of porn. "There is a romance about Hungary,"
  he says. "They find us more exciting than westerners."

  Tastes will change, of course. But Hungary is still expected to remain
  an important center for Euro porn long after a new "flavor" is found.
  The reason: Magyars put out. "We can find in Budapest [at any one time]
  around 50 girls ready to star in a pornographic movie," Clark was quoted
  as ssaying in France's Hot magazine. Italian casting agent Romagnolli agrees.

  Clark told the Hungary Report, "In France it is hard to find girls who
  are 18 or 19 years old and are willing to star in such movies."

  Kovacs, defending national dignity, explains the phenomenon by saying
  Magyar culture simply boasts a more  liberal" attitude towards sex than

  "People here are more open minded," says Anita Rinaldi, 23, one of Europe's
  top erotic actresses and co-owner (along with boyfriend Romagnolli) of
  Budapest's Blue Angel casting agency.

  Adds Romagnolli: "The mentality [in Hungary] is very open. In Italy,
  we have the Catholic Church and the mind is closed. In eastern Europe,
  the mind is open."

  What Romagnolli calls open-mindeness may also be desperation. Poverty may
  inspiring young men and women with few options but to appear in hard-core
  "photo ops" in exchange for badly needed cash. But even if hard times are
  the catalyst, porn producers argue there is an enthusiasm for sex in this
  culture which makes erotic acting an acceptable career option.

  The same passion is palpable on screen. "What [Hungarians] do on set is
  real," says Kovacs. "It has a quality to it that is real... I usually work
  with people who really like doing this."

  This attitude is not new to the porn world. Legendary US porn star
  John Holmes, who appeared in 2,274 blue films over a 20 year career,
  once said of his work: "A happy gardener is one with dirty fingernails,
  and a happy cook is a fat cook. I never get tired of what I do because
  I'm a sex fiend. I'm very lusty."

  Hungarian porn actresses differ in attitude, despite the "passion" they
  exude on film. According to Anita Rinaldi, who has coupled with the
  continent's best endowed porn men, screen sex is not enjoyable.
  "I give only my body for this," says Rinaldi. "Not my soul. I imitate sex.
  I don't participate in it.

  "I've never had an on-screen partner I've particularly liked either...
  My partners think I enjoy [screen sex] because I act like I do. But I never

  Rinaldi's professionalism is a reflection of the pride which permeates
  Europe's legitimate porn community. US hard-core is dominated by plotless
  rubbish, she says. European movies are artistic.

  "People who don't know about pornographic film making think that you take
  two people, and they f*ck. That's it," explains Romagnolli. "That's not it.

  "To make the porn version of 'Hamlet' we spent 300,000 DM. These actors
  studied, rehearsed, and prepared. Porn is not just f*cking. We begin every
  project with a screenplay just like a normal film."

  French porn actor Christopher Clark, lauded as the Robert De Niro of erotica,
  has done much to bring that better side of  European porn to Hungary.
  Clark, the 37-year-old star of sexual versions of "Hamlet" and
  "Citizen Kane," visited Budapest a decade ago with his then-Magyar
  girlfriend and immediately recognized the region's assets: low film
  production costs, exotic locations, "and a formidable pool of women."
  Clark imported west Euro erotic film auteurs, and began shooting movies.
  Budapest is now his home.

  Sadly, Hungary is also the home to porn's ugly underbelly. In 1993 Magyar
  police arrested 23 people involved in a child pornography ring. Two Dutch
  nationals are still in detention for shooting sex films involving three and
  four-year-old children. According to Jozsef Csaba, head of the Youth
  Protection Department of the Budapest police, Austrian, German, and Dutch
  pornographers still threaten Magyar youths. "They find boys from the
  countryside," says Csaba. "Orphans, Gypsies, the disadvantaged. They come
  with cheap materials and make primitive films they can sell for 1,000 to
  10,000 Schillings."

  Even adults appearing in legitimate features are at risk. According to
  French photographer Denys de Francescho, young Hungarian women hired
  by Budapest casting agencies for shoots in western Europe are often over
  worked, abused, and exploited. de Francescho claims a Magyar actress named
  'Monika' was paralyzed for eight months after one violent shoot.
  Monika's last name was not given to the Hungary.
  Report to verify this charge, and actor Clark says allegations of
  widespread exploitation within the industry's upper echelon are unfounded.

  But there is no denying it: porn performers are fodder. A hit like
  "Deep Throat" can make millions for its producers. Actors and actresses,
  paid by the day, see none of the profits. The standard pay rate for a
  Hungarian: 800 DM a day for a supporting role; 1500 DM for a main character.
  A major feature takes about ten days to shoot. A short movie can be filmed
  in a day or two.

  There are other dangers. The most deadly is HIV infection, and the 1988
  AIDS death of John Holmes proves that even porn icons are not immune.
  (According to Rolling Stone magazine, Holmes appeared with Hungary's
  Ciccolina in "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empress" after being
  diagnosed HIV positive.) French actor Clark admits that the
  specter of AIDS terrifies him. But many Hungarians downplay the threat.

  "Of course, I'm worried," says Rinaldi. "But all actors must have no
  more than a three-week-old HIV test before a shoot, otherwise they can't
  work. And the people who do this on a professional level have a stable
  private lives
  Others disagree. According to Clark, some Hungarian porn performers--
  newcomers to the trade -- are recklessly promiscuous in their private
  lives. "Some actresses will have sex with [several] boys at a disco,
  and then the next day will show up on set to work," says Clark.

  This lack of AIDS awareness may be another reason why some young people
  here are open to erotica. Women are at greatest risk mainly because the
  industry prefers Hungarian actresses. "Hungary has no male porn stars,"
  says  producer Kovacs.

  Why are Magyar men in less demand? Male skills in the mainstream porn
  trade are narrow and rare. A beautiful actress with charisma and complete
  sexual openness has a shot at stardom. Men are different. John Holmes,
  homely, skinny, and bereft of acting skill, founded a stellar career
  in the US on one item: a penis ten inches long when
  erect. Actors must also possess Herculean self-control -- stamina that
  Clark metaphorically calls professionalism. "I work very professionally,"
  he says. "I concentrate and I do it... I can act for hours and hours
  without being tired."

  The dark and legitimate worlds or European pornography co-exist in Hungary.
  But not in isolation. According to Clark, low-budget videos-- often of
  child porn and bestiality -- is overwhelming the mainstream industry.
  "European porn is in crisis," laments Clark.  "The amateurs are stealing
  the market."

  Rising prices are also driving legitimate producers away from Hungary who
  are gazing further east where costs are lower. But, whether a blessing
  or a curse, the mafia in the former USSR is keeping business rooted here.

  Even if producers stop shooting in Hungary completely, it will matter
  little to local performers. According to casting agencies, European 
  will always come here for talent -- searching for that Magyar "passion"
  which plays so well on screen.

  And whether inspired by financial desperation or a subculture of sexual
  freedom, a small number of Hungarians will strive to become members of --
  what France's HOT magazine calls -- "a new race of actresses ...
  born in Budapest."

  -Krisztina Marton assisted in the research of this article.
* Vanni Guarnieri                         *
* Istituto Nazionale di Ottica            *
* Largo  Enrico Fermi, 6                  *
* 50125 Firenze                           *
* ITALIA                                  *
* Phone: (39)55-23.081                    *
* Fax:   (39)55-233.77.55                 *
+ - Re: Interesting ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Istvan Szucs > wrote:
>should not get a say in making decisions. This is why if
>they choose to live abroad they should not vote for elected
>officials in Hungary. If they don't share the consequences
>they should not have direct control over the decisionmaking.

I don't think this is true. Unless somebody leaves permanently, I think they
will feel the consequences. Maybe not immediately, but after they return. I
believe the vast majority of people don't leave permanently, unless forced.

I also think it would at least be a good will gesture.

+ - Re: EC Art 1201 interpretation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Art 1201 interpretation by G. Dumitrescu >:

> All I know is that in Moldova, Ardeal, and Wallachia (which make up Romania),
> the majority of people were Romanian speaking shepherds and farmers who spoke
> Romanian for well over a thousand years before Arpad, Peter the Great, Taras
> Bulba, Yul Brinner and all the free-wheeling Turko-Asiatic peoples without a
> real country ever reached the river Volga, forget about Hollywood or Paramoun
> Pictures.
> Thank-you very little,
> --
> G. Dumitrescu

Cu asta basta
+ - Re: Interesting ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  > wrote:
| Istvan Szucs > wrote:
| >
| >1) Interesting. Many of your arguments point to the fact that
| >you would think that effects would be beyond what could
| >result from a symbolic handshake. 
| No, that was your conclusion.

IU guess then your complaint about people in Hungary
electing the wrong people was irrelevant, and what you said
about how much better the Poles are doing for allowing the
emigrants to vote was meant to be funny? 

| >2) I have  no clones. Do you?
| You have plenty you don't even know about. Ask something
more original.

Pot kettle black. You are the ones talking about ilks the
like and clones... WHy don't you for once explain what you
mean by my clones ruining something and moving on. Why don't
you for once realize that when you are talking to me you are
talking to one person, since I never claimed to represnt
anyone outside of myself. This murky statements are
compeletely meaningless, so if ou want to make a statement
at least attempt to make it clearly so it can be disussed.

| >3) What am I supposed to be jealous of you? 
| Control, what else?

WHat control do you have that I don't? 
| > Regardless of what our Romanian neighbors, or
| >the POles are doing we should determine our policy based on
| >what makes sense for us. 
| Your problem is that you keep thinking it's only Romanians
and Poles.

No it is your porblem that you keep bringing them up. I
think if you had been talking about western European
countries, or Canada it would have been more apparent why
experience of those countries on this front cannot just be
blindly adopted.  

| >| I suspect though, that eventual full European Union membership will
| >| force the government to change this law because it's not in harmony with
| >| the rest of the EU.
| >
| >We shall see.
| In the meantime Hungary loses more than the exiles.

Care to elaborate?

| But this is already more than I wanted to discuss with you about this
| subject, because it's always going in circles with you. 

Since you are unwilling to make clear statements about the
issues involved and keep atttempting to attack my character
and make murky statements that of course I ask you to

 Besides, I
| could predict all your answers, anyway. For somebody of your age you are
| awfully opinionated.

The fact that you could predict my answers has nothing to do
with whether they are right or wrong. I also find it
interesting that you label me opinionated, which - again -
is fairly irrelevan, and that you keep trying to drop 
age as an issue. I guess you ran out of arguments huh? 

+ - Re: Hungarian Music Help (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Joe wrote:
>> I don't know whether this is the best place to post this request, but here
>> goes anyway.  If there is a better group to post to, please let me know.
>> I am interested in a U.S. source to purchase hungarian music, by mail .
>> What I am seeking is older hungarian music, particularly instrumentals.
>> When I lived in Connecticut many years ago, this music was featured on one
>> of the Fairfield stations on Sunday morning.  Being second generation
>> american and far from areas with significant hungarian-american
>> populations, I do not know where to find this type music.  Any help in this
>> area would be greatly appreciated.
Check out http://www.panbooks.com/ for Hungarian music and books. They
have been in business for decades supplying Hungarian and Hungarian
related(in English)  cultural material. Their home page is operational
now and you can browse their catalogues.

Eva Kende B.Sc. author of "Eva's Hungarian Kitchen".
+ - Re: Interesting ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  > wrote:
>I would go for some kind of citizenship test as a precondition to
>voting.  But then the same test should be applied to the homeless or
>Roma in Hungary as Hungarian citizens abroad.

Like what? A test to see if you are a good citizen, or not?

+ - Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

: >You are such a poor loser, Karl!!!!!!
: I don't think so.  Miss Szurek wrote me private mail as well. While I did not
: file any complaints against her - I prefer do discuss these matters here 
: publicly (exactly as they were started) - but I believe that the lack of 
: arguments is not allowing to Miss Szurek to do so.
: Rosta

Well, if you write a posting with a PERSONAL attack/objection/subject, I
usually respond by PERSONAL e-mail.  (I believe the subject I wrote to you
about was of this nature). 

However, if you write a posting of a PUBLIC nature, I usually post a reply
via PUBLIC newsgroup. (Subjects about Slovakia, about history, about
politics, travel info, university info....etc. would qualify under this

Now this seems to me as a pretty good arrangement.  Any objections?