(CLARY Olivier) writes:

>If you are of Csango origin, you will be disappointed to learn that your
>community is only a few villages in Moldova where a Hungarian dialect
>survives, that is probably only a few ten thousand people.

>U~dvo~zlettel:
>-- 
>-- Olivier Clary   mailto:   http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1326
/
>Me'te'o-France/CNRM/Groupe Mode'lisation pour Assimiln. et Pre'vision, Toulous
e
>Aussi loin qu'est l'orient de l'occident, Il met loin de moi mes fautes --Ps10
3
>Se nem kicsi, se nem nagy, / E'ppen hozza'm valo' vagy!  (Lakodalmas -Te'ka e.
)

	ROTFL! HAVE YOU EVER BEEN LIVING THERE, MAN? I don't know what is your
acceptance of the word few, as I would need more hands than just two to count 
the number of csango villages in both Northern and Southern groups that I know
or have heard of. The only fact of life that I know of, from my own, lived 
experience, and not from historical-linguistical lessons given from France, is
in my new reply to Joe Pannon's reply. Don't bother to read it or accept it, as
I will also not try anymore, as aforementioned, to make people question their
goals and methods when they are the indisputable keepers of the irefutable 
truth.

Eddie

 
--
We live, in an age of cages, the tale of an ape escaping in a search of a truth
he can use.                                                    (Peter Sinfield)
                       http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~antoniu

Thanks to G.B., my question about the registry of Carpathia has been
answered by the web site
http://www.liv.ac.uk/~archives/cunard/ships/carpath.htm.

So the name of Titanic's rescue ship had something to do with
Hungarians, after all.  It's primary mission was to ship Hungarian
emigrants from the Adriatic port of Fiume to New York. 
Just think what a mass emigration it must have been if the Brits had
dedicated ships, named to relate to those passengers in such a
commercially shrewd way!

It was a twist of fate that the rescuer herself had to end up on the
bottom of Atlantic in the summer of 1918 as a result of German torpedo
attack.

Joe Pannon

Hello everyone:

I would like to know if anyone can help me find the address to
the city hall in Balassagyarmat. I am interested in finding a
copy of a birth record (1938) in the civil registration records.
Also, does anyone know if records are still available for the
old id books that were issued (in Budapest) in the 50s? This is
for family research and genealogy. Thanks in advance.

Szeretnem tudni hogy valaki tudna segiteni hol talaljam a varos
hazanak a cimet Balassagyarmatban, ahol gondolom hogy a 
nyilvantartasi anyakonyvekbol tudok szerezni egy szuletesi
kivonast (1938). Arra is kivancsi vagyok hogy lehetne szerezni
adatokat arrol a szemelyi igazolvanyokrol ami az 1950-es evekbe
volt kiadva Budapesten. Ezt csaladtorteneti kutatasra szeretnem
megszerezni. Koszi elore.

Georgina/Gyorgyi

 wrote:

> Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
> >
> >Good question. When Hungarian was offered as a course here at OSU it was und
er
> >the Slavic Departent, and I still keep getting newsletters from the Slavic
> >student club. (I guess I should break the news for them ;-) ?)
> >It may be just ignorance or laziness. Hungarian does not fit in the language
> >groups taught in the USA, our ost of our neighbors are Slavic, so we got lum
ped
> >together with them.
> 
> So are Romanians also lumped in with them?
> After all, they are even more surrounded by Slavs than we are.
> (I.e., they only have one non-Slavic neighbor, we have two.)

 Hehe, Joe, you forgot the Black Sea :-)))

 Cheers,
						Marius Iacomi

Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
>
>Good question. When Hungarian was offered as a course here at OSU it was under
 
>the Slavic Departent, and I still keep getting newsletters from the Slavic 
>student club. (I guess I should break the news for them ;-) ?)
>It may be just ignorance or laziness. Hungarian does not fit in the language 
>groups taught in the USA, our ost of our neighbors are Slavic, so we got lumpe
d
>together with them.

So are Romanians also lumped in with them?
After all, they are even more surrounded by Slavs than we are.
(I.e., they only have one non-Slavic neighbor, we have two.)

Joe

I highly recommend this video. It is a unique cultural lyric which is a 
panoramic view of Rom culture. Most importantly, it is neither pedantic nor 
academic. Best of all, it ain't MADE IN THE USA.

In article >,  says...
>Here's a great idea for a Holiday gift for your friends and/or family.
>The award-winning film LATCHO DROM (Directed by Tony Gatlif - France
>1993) features 103 minutes of non-stop music and dance of the Rom
>(Gypsy) people through a moving voyage of sights and sounds taking us
>from India to Spain with stops in Egypt, Turkey, Romania, Hungary,
>Slovakia, and France. No dialogues. A MUST for fans of traditional music
>and dance. I am the only authorized mail-order distributor for this
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>Canada J4P 3N8. Video is in VHS format, North American standard only
>(NTSC). Original uncut version from France Films-KG Productions. French
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>
>

From OMRI news:

>... Adrian Severin, who is expected to become Romania's
>new foreign minister, said the Hungarian community in Romania should
>play a bridge-building role in relations between the two countries,
>Nepszabadsag reported. He claimed he would prefer to see the two
>countries admitted to NATO simultaneously, but if Hungary precedes
>Romania, he hopes that Budapest will support Romania's integration
>efforts. Romania needs good neighborly relations with Hungary rather
>than reconciliation, he added. -- Zsofia Szilagyi

What a difference in tone and attitude!  I hope this is not as short
lived as the hopes of Hungarians during the Romanian revolution and
there won't be a repetition of Tirgu Mures, March 1990 in three months
or so.

Joe

 wrote:

> Well, finally something more specific ...  So I wonder if you've heard
> of the rumor that Nadia Comenici was also of Csango origin.  If that
> is so, I don't remember her bragging about it and her "Bozgor"
> connection.
> So I am still looking for refutation of what I originally said about
> their advanced state of assimilation.

 It is interesting that the very same ideas appear once more, from the
same person. In fact, as far as my HD knows :-), in May I answered to
Joe who expressed some doubts on Nadia's origins. The post was something
like that:

(begin HD quote)--------------------------------------------------------
 wrote:

> >Hmmm, I thought the Hungarian viewpoit is that Csangos were initially
> >Cumans. Therefore, Cuman----->Coman (common Romanian
> >name)---->Comaneci :-)
>
> That theory is new to me.  I think the Kemenes -> Comenici
> transformation is more plausible on the similarity of their sounding.

 Just for fun, there is a town called "Comanesti" in the same area with
Onesti (birthplace of Nadia Comaneci). That shows that the root "Coman"
is rather common in that region - so it is more plausible to think that
Comaneci was derived from Coman than from Kemenes.
 In fact, Nadia herself said a couple of times that the rumours were un-
justified.

> But again, we are talking here about unsubstantiated rumors, so it's not
> worth to lose sleep over.

 Right...
(end HD quote)----------------------------------------------------------

 And at that very moment, Joe agreed (after my answer) that it was
probably an "unsubstantiated rumor".
 
 Now Joe, please do note that Nadia's name was not "Comenici", as you
distorted _both_ times (in May and now) but "Coma~neci". I agree that
"Comenici" has a sounding similarity with "Kemenes" - but this is rather
irrelevant for our point. The name "Coma~neci" is close enough to the
name "Coma~nes,ti" (for that town in the area) to suggest a much better
explanation than "Kemenes".

 The only interesting point is who spread that rumor and which is the
basis of it. From my point of view, a vague similarity between "Kemenes"
and "Comaneci" impressed some illiterate journalist which thought he
discovered America for the 14798752-th time and he published his "disco-
very". After that, the rumor continued to turn around (in a similar
manner with the e-mail "virus"-letter "Good Times").

 If there is a Csango origin for Nadia's family, it's not at all obvious
and I prefer to credit her with correctness when denying this rumor.

 Cheers,
						Marius Iacomi

In article >,  (yves 
moreau) wrote:
[...]

You are one naughty boy, sending a commercial ad into a discussion 
group.

The film is superb, though.

George Antony

td ) writes:
> td wrote:
>> impotentician strikes back :
> sorry, AND Books, this > impotentician strikes back :>
> was from a different message
Likely story.

Marius Iacomi wrote:

>  wrote:
>
> > >Hmmm, I thought the Hungarian viewpoit is that Csangos were initially
> > >Cumans. Therefore, Cuman----->Coman (common Romanian
> > >name)---->Comaneci :-)
> >
> > That theory is new to me.  I think the Kemenes -> Comenici
> > transformation is more plausible on the similarity of their sounding.
> 
>  Just for fun, there is a town called "Comanesti" in the same area with
> Onesti (birthplace of Nadia Comaneci). That shows that the root "Coman"
> is rather common in that region - so it is more plausible to think that
> Comaneci was derived from Coman than from Kemenes.
>  In fact, Nadia herself said a couple of times that the rumours were un-
> justified.
 
>  Now Joe, please do note that Nadia's name was not "Comenici", as you
> distorted _both_ times (in May and now) but "Coma~neci". I agree that
> "Comenici" has a sounding similarity with "Kemenes" - but this is rather
> irrelevant for our point. The name "Coma~neci" is close enough to the
> name "Coma~nes,ti" (for that town in the area) to suggest a much better
> explanation than "Kemenes".

>  Cheers,
>                                                 Marius Iacomi

Szervusz,  Jozsi, servus, Marius!

Coman + derivations are very frequent Romanian names.
Coman has a correspondent in Hungarian => Kun.
Comanici and Comaneci would sound "Kiskun" or "Kunocska"!

As family names. But I know of at least one case where Coman is a 1st
name: the writer & (ex-?)TV man Coman Sova.

Period! :-)

g

g wrote:

> Coman + derivations are very frequent Romanian names.
> Coman has a correspondent in Hungarian => Kun.
> Comanici and Comaneci would sound "Kiskun" or "Kunocska"!
> 
> As family names. But I know of at least one case where Coman is a 1st
> name: the writer & (ex-?)TV man Coman Sova.

 It seems that the same replies as in May follow! :-)

 In fact, I quoted the name of the town in order to suggest that in
the area the name "Coman" and it's derivations are enough frequent to
justify the assumption "Coman" --> ... --> "Coma~neci" more likely than
"Kemenes" --> "Comenici"/"Coma~neci". Out of that, the name "Coma~nesti"
is characterized by the same alternance (very usual in Romanian) a/a~ 
as in "Coma~neci" (which ended probably at the very beginning with a
supplementary "u" - "Coma~neciu" - then the last vowel get lost). Of
course, the derivation "Coma~nesti" -> "Coma~neci" is not very likely
to be correct. However, the presence of a town called "Coma~nesti" 
strongly suggests that a similar derivation from "Coman" took place
to give the last name "Coma~neci".

 Ave! :-)
						Marius Iacomi

In article >,  > wrote:
>Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
>>
>>Good question. When Hungarian was offered as a course here at OSU it was unde
r 
>>the Slavic Departent, and I still keep getting newsletters from the Slavic 
>>student club. (I guess I should break the news for them ;-) ?)
>>It may be just ignorance or laziness. Hungarian does not fit in the language 
>>groups taught in the USA, our ost of our neighbors are Slavic, so we got lump
ed
>>together with them.
>
>So are Romanians also lumped in with them?
>After all, they are even more surrounded by Slavs than we are.
>(I.e., they only have one non-Slavic neighbor, we have two.)
>
>Joe

I have to check, I did not see Rumanian offered. I'll get back with you on
that.
GK

A ma reggeli Vasarnapi Ujsag (Kossuth Radio) musoraban meglepodve
hallottam Csurka Istvan Bardossyrol valo megemlekezeset. Mivel tudtommal
Csurkat meg az Antall kormany idejen "leepitettek" abbol a musorbol,
meglepett, hogy epp a mostani rendszer idejen hallottam ott ujra.
Egyedi esetrol van szo, vagy ismet allando jellegu szereplesrol?
Egyebkent szerintem a Bardossyrol irt (mondott) jegyzete remek volt.
Csodalkozom, hogy a Vasarnapi Ujsag, annyi valtoztatas ellenere meg
ilyen bator hangokat mer megutni. 

Pannon J.

Marius Iacomi  > wrote:
>
> It is interesting that the very same ideas appear once more, from the
>same person. In fact, as far as my HD knows :-), in May I answered to
>Joe who expressed some doubts on Nadia's origins. The post was something
>like that:

Never mind that.  I am interested what a self-described Csango has to
say about that.

Joe