Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 35
Copyright (C) HIX
1994-08-04
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Media affairs (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: A visit to the library (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
3 A Visit to the Library (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
4 National Guard Excersises... (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
5 Michael Jackson in Budapest? (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
6 In praise of Horn (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
7 Apology on the National Guard (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Michael Jackson in Budapest? (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
9 Media watch (mind)  33 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Apology on the National Guard (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
11 R.I.P. Budapest Expo (Was: Re: Michael Jackson in Budap (mind)  83 sor     (cikkei)
12 Resolution of Ethnic Conflicts (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Media affairs (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Michael Jackson in Budapest? (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Media affairs (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I do not get it: it is allright to manipulate the media if you
are quite subtle and professional about it? What is your opinion about
Berluscuoni? Eva Durant, amazed as usual

>
> Of course, we all know that politicians try to manipulate the media to their
> advantage and some of them are real pros in this business. I think of

> But they normally try to do it rather subtly. But more important, the
> representatives of the media hate being used this way and they are, on the

> Ergo, I think that he doesn't think that there is anything wrong with this.
> Eva Balogh, the watchdog of the media
+ - Re: A visit to the library (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Thanks!


On Tue, 2 Aug 1994, Istvan Kertesz wrote:

> is highly recommended for those who want to read a well-informed,
> balanced essay about the current situation in Hungary by a real historian.
> (Deak Istvan. 'Post-Post-Communist Hungary' _The New York Review of Books_
> Aug 11, 1994, p. 33-38.)
>
> The rest of you can continue with your biased, semi-informed Horn and media
> bashing.
>
> Istvan Kertesz
+ - A Visit to the Library (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Istvan Kertesz writes in his "A Visit to the Library" that we all should read

>a well-informed,
>balanced essay about the current situation in Hungary by a real historian.
>(Deak Istvan. 'Post-Post-Communist Hungary' _The New York Review of Books_
>Aug 11, 1994, p. 33-38.)

>The rest of you can continue with your biased, semi-informed Horn and media
>bashing.

I am somewhat baffled why a "real historian's" opinions on current political
affairs are any better or more trustworthy than those of not-real historians
and non-historians. Just because Istvan Deak, whom I admire as a historian
and like personally as a human being, is a historian it doesn't mean that his
analysis of current events is superior to that of others without a degree in
history but with an interest in Hungarian political life. Most likely Istvan
Kertesz agrees with Istvan Deak's opinions and therefore find them better
informed than those of ours with "biased, semi-informed Horn and media
bashing." Eva Balogh
+ - National Guard Excersises... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Subject: Re: Police in Hungary and the USA
>
>>
> They
>seem to hang out at airports on their way home on leave, and here and there
>>you can see National Guard units driving a whole slew of trucks along the
>>highway on their way to their silly weekend exercises.
Excuse me?  Are you by any chance refering the US National Guard???
I hope not cause our exercise are far from been silly.  I don't know
what you do in your rl or what state you are you in but you will
be thankfull we can be there to protect your life/property some day.
What have you done to protect your country, your family
in case of an emergency?  do you have any better idea than those silly
exercises??
Surf
+ - Michael Jackson in Budapest? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I've just heard in a radio news report that Michael Jackson is spending
part of his honeymoon in Hungary where he would shoot his latest video.
In this video he will act as a a freedom fighter chasing Soviet soldiers
for which the greatful Hungarians erect his statue in Budapest.

Fancy stuff, eh?  Well, as long as he stays away from kindergartens (!),
I guess there is no harm in this.  In fact, the video just might place
Hungary more firmly on the map than anything the Hungarian government
has done recently, considering Michael Jackson's (still) huge following
worldwide.

What do you think?

Joe
+ - In praise of Horn (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Just to show that I am not entirely negative about the new Horn government I
would like mention something which I approve of. You may or may not be aware
but the socialists had been very vocal, especially before the May 8
elections, about alleged abuses in privatization. During the heat of the
campaign, Horn, for example, talked about a total reexamination of all
privatizations which had taken place after April 1. Such a policy would have
been, at least in my opinion, quite disastrous because it would have shaken
the confidence of foreign and domestic investors. However, after the
elections, and especially after the successful conclusion of the coalition
negotiations, they abandoned this ill-conceived idea. Horn categorically
announced sometime at the end of June that such a reexamination of
privatization deals is out of the question. Obviously the rhetoric was only a
campaign device and pragmatism prevailed. Pleased about that. Eva Balogh
+ - Apology on the National Guard (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I said, obviously, unthinkingly,

>>you can see National Guard units driving a whole slew of trucks along the
>>highway on their way to their silly weekend exercises.

To which Charles Atherton answered:

>--Please forgive me, but I must protest this remark.  If you were a flood
>or tornado victim, you would see the value of these "silly weekend
>exercises" and be very glad to see the National Guard.

You are 100 percent right! I was unfair to the National Guard. My only excuse
is that I come from a terribly nonmilitary family. In fact, I think that
there was a certain amount a prejudice against the military in the Balogh
family. But of course, you have to understand how insufferable the Hungarian
officer class was during the Horthy regime and thus perhaps my father's
reaction, and hence mine, is more justified. Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Michael Jackson in Budapest? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Michael Jackson's Budapest visit will be the only thing that puts
 Hungary on the map now that the Socialists are thinking of pulling the
 curtains down on the EXPO.

          I'd like to change this discussion to the EXPO and what it could
  or could not do for Hungary.  Based on my experience in Seville during the
  last EXPO, life got much more difficult from the natives.  While the event
  was supposed to bring much needed infrastructure to the country, hardly
  anything was finished on time or most of what was built was shoddy and
  rather impermanant.

           Hungary's got even less time to construct everything EXPO requires.
  The price shock would be bad for the ruling coalition, too.

         Feel free to respond to me in person, if you'd like.  I'm gathering
  material for an article to be published in Budapest on the topic and would
  like to get a sense of what some of the regular contributors have to say
  about it.
                 Thanks,  Jennifer Brown (of D.C. potluck infamy)
+ - Media watch (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

E1va Balog in her "media watch" posting summarizes the following events:
>Lajos Fu2r, the former government's minister of defense, was in deep
>depression [...] He was reluctant to meet with his successor. [Horn decided]
>that they should try to change his [Fu2r's] mind with the help of a couple
>of newspaper articles.
E1va goes on to rake the press over hot coals for lending their hand to
this. What she neglects to mention in her background summary is that
outgoing Prime Minister Boross made a BIG song and dance that there will be
an ordinary transition in power, that the outgoing ministers and other
leaders will meet with their replacements and brief them on all current
matters etc. etc.

To my mind, ordinary transition of power is not party interest: it is
clearly national interest. Boross made a big point of emphasizing this and
committed himself and his government to exactly what Fu2r is *not* doing.
Can a "depressed" and "upset" minister go against the clear wishes of his PM?
Can he, perhaps, next time he gets depressed and upset, order troops to
attack a neighboring country? Is this kind of person fit for such a crucial
post as Defense? What is going on?

In short, it is the national interest to effect an ordinary transition of
power and to expose, if need be, that a non compos mentis is running
Defense, and any patriotic newspaperman should do so. Having a loose cannon
in a ministry, not accepting the policies of the outgoing PM, and not
accepting the policies of the incoming PM, would be a serious matter even
less sensitive fields, inasmuch as it establishes the wrong tradition for
rotating positions. But in Defense this is not only harmful, it is actually
dangerous.

Andra1s Kornai

DISCLAIMER: This is not to say that I agree with all that the Hungarian
press does, or that I think they are always acting responsibly.
+ - Re: Apology on the National Guard (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>
>>--Please forgive me, but I must protest this remark.  If you were a flood
>>or tornado victim, you would see the value of these "silly weekend
>>exercises" and be very glad to see the National Guard.
>
>You are 100 percent right! I was unfair to the National Guard. My only excuse
>is that I come from a terribly nonmilitary family. In fact, I think that
>there was a certain amount a prejudice against the military in the Balogh
>family. But of course, you have to understand how insufferable the Hungarian
>officer class was during the Horthy regime and thus perhaps my father's
>reaction, and hence mine, is more justified. Eva Balogh

--On behalf of many "week-end warriors" I appreciate your gracious apology!
Remember that Americans aren't particularly military in the main, only
some of them.  Of course, your officer class would be much different from
ours, and I understand your antipathy.  If there is a God, no doubt
Admiral Horthy has done his penance for his cooperation with Hitler.  On
the other hand, he may have gotten some time off for his opposition to
the deportation of Hungarian Jews in 1944.
+ - R.I.P. Budapest Expo (Was: Re: Michael Jackson in Budap (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Jennifer Brown wrote:
>          I'd like to change this discussion to the EXPO and what it could
>  or could not do for Hungary.

Preparing a balance sheet for grand events such as EXPOs and olympics is
notoriously difficult even in mere money terms.

The events themselves have a reasonably good chance of paying for themselves
if the planning was realistic enough in the first place.  The problem is the
additional infrastructure usually needed to make the event possible.

Where substantial inftrastructure is put in place for the event, to be used for
other purposes later, one issue is how much of its costs to attribute to the
event and how much to the later use.  Clearly, if the items in question would
have been built anyway the costs should not be charged against the event, if
not then they belong there.  In practice, much of them would have been on a
wish list of non-essential but would-be-good-to-have items.  If the event bring
s
in additional resources towards their construction or provides more users and
some additional cost recovery, the benefit/cost ratio of constructing them may
be more favourable for the state treasury than it would have been without the
event.

Then there is the issue of secondary benefits: e.g., more tourists bringing
in additional revenue for the local economy and locals using the infra-
structure items long after the event.  These are very difficult to measure
even after the event.

I have no references on the economics of such grand events, but I recall that
most of them proved a heavy drain on government budgets.  The Brisbane EXPO
in 1987 was one of the apparently few that broke even without government
subsidies (i.e., the organizers were able to pay back the government's seed
money from receipts of the event and subsequent sale of facilities and real
estate), while the Canadians are still paying for their EXPO and Olympics
that proved a disaster financially.  One difference was that Brisbane did
not build additional infrastructure for the event, apart from the EXPO
site, while the Canadians did in a big way.  Los Angeles even made some
money from their second olympics, due to sharp organization, the fact that
most of the required facilities already existed and that there was a huge
amount of unpaid volunteer work done by locals.

In the end, I would consider the effect on the government budget as the
yardstick.  Secondary benefits are all very well if they can be counted up,
but government expenditure in some other area would also have resulted in
secondary benefits.  If the event ends up heavily subsidized from the
government budget, it is tantamount to a transfer of money from the taxpayers
to the region where the event takes place, its citizens and the businesses
operating in the event.  This is shaky economics and social policy.

In the case of the Budapest EXPO, it is obvious that without much additional
infrastructure the event would not be viable.  While some of that (e.g., a
new bridge on the Danube and roads) would be highly desirable, they are not
necessarily higher priority than other infrastructure or social spending in
Hungary.  Jennifer points out:

>  Based on my experience in Seville during the
>  last EXPO, life got much more difficult from the natives.  While the event
>  was supposed to bring much needed infrastructure to the country, hardly
>  anything was finished on time or most of what was built was shoddy and
>  rather impermanant.

>           Hungary's got even less time to construct everything EXPO requires.

Making it quite likely that a Seville-like situation may arise.

As for the effect on the budget, reports of late indicate that the EXPO would
have to be heavily subsidized and it has no chance of breaking even.
Budapest's Self Government (the local Council) cries poor and would
not build the required large infrastrucutre items (very likely justifiably as
it IS poor and the items are of national significance, although there was
some politicking in it too: they are Free Democrats and they resented the
past MDF-dominated coalition committing them to the EXPO against their
wishes).  Hence, the state budget would have to pay for the whole lot.
Given Hungary's precarious financial situation, such an extravaganza is the
last thing that the country needs.

>  The price shock would be bad for the ruling coalition, too.

To say nothing about the taxpayer to be fleeced more and the pensioners who
have to forgo pension increases.  No, it seems a prudent decision to have
pulled the plug on the Budapest EXPO.

George Antony
+ - Resolution of Ethnic Conflicts (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

What are your views on the prospects of Hungarian-Romanian conflict and
possible strategies for resolution of tensions or at least avoidance of
future conflicts?
+ - Re: Media affairs (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva D.--

God should only forgive the Italians for their folly (re: Berlusconi)!

--Marc Nasdor
+ - Re: Michael Jackson in Budapest? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Jen of Potluck fame--

I think Jackson's in Hungary for the Helia-D anti-aging skin creams.

RE: Expo

It's too bad, because it would be good PR for Hungary, but if it's going to be
that much of a pain in the economy's butt, I suppose it'll have to wait. I
think they would be better off trying to host as many significant high-tech
trade shows as they can pull their way. The good will can travel word-of-mouth.


--Marc Nasdor, Potluck Attendee

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