Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 678
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-05-25
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 At 05:16 PM 5/23/96 -0600,Cecilia wrote: (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
2 Research Help Requested (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Research Help Requested (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
4 Dear Aniko; (mind)  162 sor     (cikkei)
5 At 10:55 AM 5/24/96 -0700, you wrote: (mind)  62 sor     (cikkei)
6 Somlo'i galuska (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
7 Hungarian language at home (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Somlo'i galuska (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Hungarian language at home (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)

+ - At 05:16 PM 5/23/96 -0600,Cecilia wrote: (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I think you have heard that Romania just passed a language law
>last week that is even more severe than Slovakia's.  This one will prohibit
>the use of Hungarian in homes, schools and churches--anywhere in Romania in
>fact.

        I have been following Hungarian-related news religiously on the
Internet as well as by subscribing several Hungarian publications, but I
haven't heard of this new Romanian language law. I am especially surprised
to hear that it prohibits the "the use of Hungarian in homes." Are you sure?
I think if such law was enacted in Romania there would be a terrible
upheaval in Hungary but I haven't read anything unusual on
Romanian-Hungarian relations lately.

        And a word of caution. The word "genocide" should be used sparingly.
Whatever we think of Romanian policy toward the Hungarian minority it is not
genocide.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Research Help Requested (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Jo [reggelt/napot/estat] kivanok!
Hi, I'm new to this and please don't think by the above that I'm fluent in
Hungarian.  I wish!

Anyway I'm American, of Hungarian ancestry, and am working on a novel set
partly in Hungary in 1988 (just before "the fall").  I've done a lot of
research, but can always use more answers.  So:  Are you, or do you know
well, someone who is one of the following:

(1) Hungarian Jewish, who lived in Budapest during any of these periods
(ideally, all!): White Terror; 1930s-40s; 1944; 1945-48; Rakosi years;
Nagy years; 1956; Kadar years.

(2) Hungarian Gay, who knows the Budapest gay scene of the 1970s-80s.

(3) Hungarian in general, and familiar with the Budapest political battles
of the mid-1980s for more freedom (good example, can talk of group(s)
involved in Nagymaros demo in Sept. 1988).

(4) Hungarian in general who lived in BP after 1945, especially during
Rakosi years and Kadar years so he/she can tell me, for example, all the
secret little things you had to do when in your apartment because it was
bugged.

You see, in fiction it's not the great events that bring a book alive
(unless it's a "historical novel") but the little day to day details in an
individual character's life: what he ate, what his fears were, what
happened to someone he loved, etc.

A good (though minor) example of what I'd ask: if you went to Gerbeaud's
for a treat, what would you order?  I would have guessed Dobos Torte, but
a friend says I'm wrong; it would probably have been _________ Somloi.
(See, I even need the full name of this treat!)

So anyone with the interest and patience to be asked "petty" questions,
please contact me.  Many thanks in advance.
+ - Re: Research Help Requested (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Mr or Ms (?)  wrote:

>A good (though minor) example of what I'd ask: if you went to Gerbeaud's
>for a treat, what would you order?  I would have guessed Dobos Torte, but
>a friend says I'm wrong; it would probably have been _________ Somloi.
>(See, I even need the full name of this treat!)

I guess this should be the Somlo'i galuska.

J.Zsargo
+ - Dear Aniko; (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:39 PM 5/23/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Hi Cecilia
>
>Hope you get that hdrive of yours cleaned up...
>
It's getting better, thanks.  Now if my husband would just not install new
printer drivers downloaded through the internet, untested, and then forget
to tell me he did this...

>
>At 05:16 PM 5/23/96 -0600, you wrote:
>>Dear Andras;
><major snippos>
>
>Question:
>>
>>The biggest problem for Hungarians is the question of their very survival as
>>a people.
>
>Would you mind expounding on this statement just a teeny bit more?

Very simply put: Hungary, population ca. 1910 (ethnic Hungarians only as per
a census from the old empire) 20 million+.  Population 1995, worldwide--3
generations later--about 16 million.  Population still declining in Hungary
proper, according to the current government--despite the infusion of
refugees from both the former Yugoslavia and Romania in the past 10 years.
Birthrate is still less than death rate.

Major allies, neighbors, friends willing to help defend Hungary from any
aggressor, as evidenced by World War II, 1956, etc.--zippo, nadie, a big fat
"O."  Of five nearest neighbors with largest borders, three are bent on
either exterminating or deporting all their Hungarian minorities.  Number of
big powers protesting or doing anything to discourage this:  another big,
fat "O".  The Hungarian Lobby is an ongoing chronicle of "the plan of the
week" being adopted by the three enemy parliaments being added to the pile
of laws being heaped like stones in a witchcraft sentence to break our
spiritual backs and get rid of us--one way or another.

>
>>I think you have heard that Romania just passed a language law
>>last week that is even more severe than Slovakia's.  This one will prohibit
>>the use of Hungarian in homes, schools and churches--anywhere in Romania in
>>fact.  Why is this happening?  Because of the beliefs that Romanians have
>>that Hungarians are an inferior Asiatic race, only recently descended from
>>invading barbarians that do not belong in Europe--or anywhere in the world
>>for that matter.
>
>Another question:
>
>Realize, that I am *not* an expert at any of this *stuff* - is the above
>para's contents for real?  If so, what are the Romanians doing in Hungary,
>looking to sell their goods and thereby asking for so called *hungarian
>support* of their very livelihoods from the very inferior people whom are
>banned through the passing of the law you describe as above  - on each and
>every corner of any main street... not to mention, all of the  very main
>streets?"  - Why is the Hungarian Government even allowing them into the
>country in the first place, given the knowledge of such facts?

Right now, Hungary is doing better economically, and attracting more
international investment money than the rest.  It has better manufactured
goods, and at generally better prices for Romanians and Slovakians than
those of most of West Europe.  Hungary has more food.  Hungary finally has a
better transportation system making it a trade gateway that Slovakia and
Romania must use for many types of products to export them to the EC.
Romanians, Slovakians, and Serbians hope to gain by association--and
eventually then supercede Hungary.  It's purely mercenary--and temporary.

As for the Romanians in Hungary, a lot of them left Romania for good reason.
Unfortunately their generally friendly attitudes are the minority yet--if
they weren't more of them would be in Romania, dis-electing the kind of
majority in the Romanian parliament that keeps trying to eliminate the
Hungarians in that country.  There are friendly Romanians in the U.S. also.
I know quite a few, and count one as a very good friend.  However, even
though this friend is a director of "Casa Romana," even he has said he would
be unable to guarantee the safety of _any_ Hungarian walking into that
building because of _the majority_ of its members.  Now that's in the
generally regarded as tolerant U.S..  How much worse is it away from the
U.S. network news cameras, hmmm?

Finally, that same majority that comprises the Casa Romana membership, just
3 years ago tried to disrupt the St. Stephen's Day celebration in Golden
Gate Park and tell announcers that the music they were hearing and the
dancers were all demonstrating Romanian folk culture--that Hungary had no
culture and history that they were a bunch of barbarians, etc., etc.--  They
even made a protest to park officials for allowing this "fraudulent
celebration."  A realtor in Oakland was physically assaulted in her own
office by a Romanian who was both incensed at having been referred to a
Hungarian realtor and insisted it was his duty as a good Romanian to kill
all Hungarian barbarians.  In 1989, we had problems with aggression and
denunciations and attempts to physically drive us away at a rally we
organized with Amnesty Internation--and to which _we_ had invited the
Romanians to show support for the protestors at Temesvar and other places.
This rally occurred on the steps of San Francisco City Hall and was filmed
by several major news programs.

If the Romanians in the U.S.--in front of television cameras, can't restrain
their attitudes and impulses to humiliate and get rid of us, do you really
think they are any better in Romania?

Then there was the lovely quote from some Slovakian official or other in
which he gleefully noted that when the Gabrickovo/Nagymaros complex of dams
was completed, Slovakia "would finally drown all the Hungarians like rats."

We're merely tolerated because we temporarily can give them access to money,
trade, and better manufactured goods, as well as food.  That's all.  As soon
as Serbia, Romania, and Slovakia figure they can get along without us--that
they have more interest from the business community than we (after all both
Serbia and Romania are both geographically and population-market larger...),
then it's bye-bye Hungary.  If it took the West and the U.S. four years to
rescue less than one half of Bosnia--and its population, when Bosnia was
just being attacked by Serbia, just how likely does any one think any
Hungarians will be left by the time the West finally decides to do something
if Slovakia, Romania and Serbia--all three together (certainly much more
formidable, intimidating and risky for our boys, etc.)--decide to ethnically
cleanse the coveted topography of the Danube Basin, which they will no doubt
claim because of "prior ownership before the Asian invaders?"

After all the trips I made to Congress and two administrations, and all the
materials in two file cabinets, I have no illusions about the reality of
moral courage in the U.S., or the rest of the Western leadership. (I ran
into more than a few of their "emissaries" visiting the same offices I was...)


As for why Hungarians allow Romanians, Slovakians etc. to enter the country.
I think this is one of those situations that psychologists refer to as
"co-dependency."  If we didn't allow the merchants, etc. in, despite their
attitudes, the situation for our minorities would probably be even worse
than it is.  As for the ones who stay longer.  They stay because they don't
buy the baloney that the majority in their countries seems to, which makes
it uncomfortable for them to stay.  Finally, Hungarians have always had a
generous spirit to those who really do like or accept us, and look at people
more as individuals than just an ethnicity.  That's how we lost
Transylvania, but it's also how we've managed to survive as long as we
have--albeit, more and more in other countries.

Hungarians will exist longer than the country of Hungary, as the Jews did
when there was no Israel, and the Poles did when there was no Poland.
However, if we lose the country and then have to regain it, we as a people
will be forever altered, and maybe not all for the good, as both the Poles
and Israelis have been.  It would be better not to the lose the country at
all, but I'm doubtful, given the past 75 years, that that will happen.  The
trend is simply not in that direction, yet.  That doesn't mean that a few of
us are trying to change that, it just hasn't happened yet, and we don't know
if we'll succeed at all.
>
><snip>
>
>Just curious....

It's a very understandable request.  Thanks for asking.
>
Respectfully,


Cecilia L. Fa'bos-Becker
San Jose, CA

tel./fax: 408-223-6102
e-mail: 

N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA
+ - At 10:55 AM 5/24/96 -0700, you wrote: (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>At 05:16 PM 5/23/96 -0600,Cecilia wrote:
>
>I think you have heard that Romania just passed a language law
>>last week that is even more severe than Slovakia's.  This one will prohibit
>>the use of Hungarian in homes, schools and churches--anywhere in Romania in
>>fact.
>
>        I have been following Hungarian-related news religiously on the
>Internet as well as by subscribing several Hungarian publications, but I
>haven't heard of this new Romanian language law. I am especially surprised
>to hear that it prohibits the "the use of Hungarian in homes." Are you sure?
>I think if such law was enacted in Romania there would be a terrible
>upheaval in Hungary but I haven't read anything unusual on
>Romanian-Hungarian relations lately.

This was told to me on Tuesday of this week by Laszlo Pasztor at Coalitions
for America in Washington DC.  He has generally tapped a number of
diplomatic sources, as well as media for his information.  It's possible the
bill isn't signed yet, but he did say it passed.
>
>        And a word of caution. The word "genocide" should be used sparingly.
>Whatever we think of Romanian policy toward the Hungarian minority it is not
>genocide.

Sorry, Eva, but I just go by the United Nations Convention on the Prevention
and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1951).  I quote:

"ARTICLE II
In the present Convention genocide means any of the following acts committed
with the intent to destroy, in whole or part, a national, ethnical, racial
or  religious group as such:
a. Killing members of the group;
b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to
bring about its physical destruction in whole or part;
d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

The Romanians _are_ committing genocide against Hungarians within
Transylvania.   The Slovakians are also committing genocide against the
Hungarian minority in their country.  The Serbians have been periodically,
quite recently committing genocide against the Hungarians in the Voivodina,
and Slavonia.

Sincerely,

Cecilia L. Fa'bos-Becker
San Jose, CA

tel./fax: 408-223-6102
e-mail: 






>
>        Eva Balogh
>
>
N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA
+ - Somlo'i galuska (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Fri, 24 May 1996, Janos Zsargo wrote:

> I guess this should be the Somlo'i galuska.
>
> J.Zsargo
>

Please educate me, too.  What IS it?
Martha
+ - Hungarian language at home (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

This morning I called my father who lives in Kolozsvar, we spoke in Hungarian.

And he is a law-abiding person.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: Somlo'i galuska (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 08:30 PM 5/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>On Fri, 24 May 1996, Janos Zsargo wrote:
>
>> I guess this should be the Somlo'i galuska.
>>
>> J.Zsargo
>>
>
>Please educate me, too.  What IS it?
>Martha
>
Oh Martha:  It is to die for!  And, I must admit that Gerbeau does a super
duper yummie job of it!  - I'll send you a recipe privately.
Aniko
>
+ - Re: Hungarian language at home (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 06:35 PM 5/24/96 -0700, you wrote:

>This morning I called my father who lives in Kolozsvar, we spoke in Hungarian.
>
>And he is a law-abiding person.
>
>Gabor D. Farkas
Thank Goodness!!! is all that I can add!  Whew!  Cecilia had my heart
palpitating for awhile!

Aniko
PS:  Cecilia:  Thanks for your reply also... It's now midnight here, so I'll
get to it tomorrow,

>
>

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