Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: feather in cap (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
2 Horn-Meciar Pact (mind)  85 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Horn-Meciar Pact (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
4 Hungarian Interpreters? (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
5 Internships (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: "Lower Slovakia" (mind)  48 sor     (cikkei)
7 Corrections: DC area Benefit Violin Recital (mind)  47 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: A Coup? (mind)  34 sor     (cikkei)
9 Invitation (mind)  59 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: feather in cap (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andras Kornai writes:  (most deleted)

> Is Kuncze asleep at the wheel?

God, is this driving habit catching? What if there is another truck parked
by the road?
I rather have an emperor with no clothes (except for the feather), than a
leader asleep at the wheel. The latter is dangerous to others also.
+ - Horn-Meciar Pact (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Although both Andras Kornai and Greg Grose (31 Mar) sidestep the
question as to why they think that the recently concluded Horn-Meciar
Pact was a "coup" for Hungary (words of Andras Kornai), the agreement
has other dimensions.

Treaties need to be judged by what they are likely to accomplish. In
this case, will it further collective security in the region and advance
the human rights of the affected populations? Or, are they simply meant
to advance the political fortunes of the current regimes in Budapest and
Pozsony (Bratislava)?

As the public disagreements between the Horn and Meciar regimes on the
meaning of certain passages in the document already show, the treaty is
unlikely to alleviate the security concerns or advance the prospects of
integration into Europe of either country.

Missing from much of the discussion, and of primary concern, is the
human rights dimension. The minorities put under foreign administration,
against their will, by the peace-makers following the World Wars, are
not clamoring for border revisions, but rather seek guarantees of their
basic human rights. These include the right to cultural development, the
right to education in their mother tongue, the use of their own language
in official transactions and the right to their ethnicity, i.e. local
autonomy. Securing these rights was the object of several international
conventions and agreements. Prominent among these are the Copenhagen
Document, the Charter of Paris for a new Europe (1991), the European
Convention for the Protection of Minorities (Venice, 1991), the Vienna
Declaration and Programme of Action (June 1993), as well as the
Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities (1994).
Article 5 of this treaty states that "The Parties undertake to promote
the conditions necessary for persons belonging to national minorities to
maintain and develop their culture, and to preserve the essential
elements of their identity, namely religion, language, traditions and
cultural heritage." But enforcement clauses are either weak or

Unfortunately, the minorities in question do not see their ethnic rights
respected or guaranteed by their governments. In fact, more than ever,
they are exposed to severe assimilationist decrees.

As the South Tyrol Agreement between Italy and Austria amply
demonstrated, ethnic disputes can be settled amicably, if there is a
willingness to do so. In the South Tyrol case, local autonomy is
guaranteed for the German-speaking population. The region also has legal
standing to challenge state laws and to have conflicts of power resolved
by the Constitutional Court.  In addition, the Austrian government acts
as an advocate and guarantor of the rights of their ethnic kin before
the International Court of Justice. They are not defensive about this
role. They have not been reviled by left wing ideologues or the New York
Times, as the Antall Government was, for implicitly advocating the same
for the largest minority in Europe, Hungarians living in the adjacent

The use of the rhetoric of the 1950's directed against those who
question the wisdom of the Horn-Meciar agreement is rather quaint, but
not really persuasive. Developments in international law are moving
inexorably in the direction of favoring collective and group rights. The
position papers of the Atlantic Council of the United States, which has
a strong influence on future US policy, echoes this sentiment.
Ultimately, the issues will be decided in Washington and not in Pozsony
(Bratislava) or Budapest. What two governments, living at the edge and
headed by ex-Communists do now may not be more than an obscure footnote
in the history of the region.

The discussion needs to be focused where it belongs: the human rights of
all affected ethnic groups, be they Slovaks in Hungary or Hungarians in
Slovakia. To drag the "fear" of a demand of border revision in the
discussion only diverts the attention away from the issue of the
discrimination suffered daily by several million Hungarians in the
adjoining territories.

The notion of sovereignty is also changing. As Prof. R. Steinhardt in a
recent paper has aptly pointed out, "The right of self-determination
should no longer be viewed as shorthand for the right of sovereign
equality or the right of state to be left alone in matters of human
rights.  ...[A] government's treatment of identity groups within its
border....is beyond international scrutiny. That is no longer a
realistic assessment of each state's exclusive domestic jurisdiction, in
the light of the emergent regime of protection of....minority groups..."

Anti-Semitism is repulsive, but so is anti-Hungarianism. As long as
there continues to be ethnic discrimination and intolerance in the
region, there will be no stability in Central Europe.

+ - Re: Horn-Meciar Pact (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Csaba Zoltani (ACISD/CTD) wrote:

: Although both Andras Kornai and Greg Grose (31 Mar) sidestep the
: question as to why they think that the recently concluded Horn-Meciar
: Pact was a "coup" for Hungary (words of Andras Kornai)

Now wait a minute, is *that* fair?  I don't think, and I don't think I said,
that the treaty was a `coup'.  I called it a `feather in the cap'.

I happen to think your criticisms of the treaty are valid as far as they go.

+ - Hungarian Interpreters? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

"Hungarian Language Link - the professional experts in Hungarian/English & vv
translation/interpreting based London & Budapest. Impressive corporate &
institutional client list. Specialists in general
commercial/legal/technical/infotech etc. Associates ex BBC staff.
Experienced ad-hoc/consequtive/conference interpreters.  Owner on official list
CBI, CPS, DTI, FO, FCO, H.M. Immigration Appellate, Hungarian Embassy, MAFF,
NATO, Scotland Yard. Member of Institute of Translators & Interpreters,
Institute of Linguists Police & Court Interpreters.

WINWORD6, WP, EXCEL etc.  For further info contact through CompuServe
100127,1703 or
tel: London 181 740 5425  fax: London 181 749 9115"
+ - Internships (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

A Hungarian friend with political background is interested in possible
internships for East Europeans in the United States. If anyone knows anything
about such possibilities, please get in touch with me by private E-mail.

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: "Lower Slovakia" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>   wrote:
> >briefly, the territory was referred to as "Lower Slovakia" almost
> >constantly by the Slovaks who lived there.  Just as they referred

> At first I was puzzled by the terms "Upper Slovakia" and "Lower Slovakia" in
> your text.  Then I realized that you are actually referring to what in
> Hungarian is called "Felvidek" and "Alfold" respectively.  The precise
> meaning of these terms are "Highlands" and "Lowlands", referring to two areas
> of the Kingdom of Hungary before 1920.  Most of the Highlands now constitute
> Slovakia.  The Lowlands are neither inhabited by nor ever belonged to
> Slovaks.

    I believe you misread the posting. I am not referring to the
Hungarian terms or the territories they represent.  I am referring to
what Slovaks living in certain counties now in the northwest and some
parts of the northeast of PRESENT Hungary called "lower slovakia", as
there were slovaks living in the uplands and others in the lowlands.
These counties (I think that in the meantime either Jozef Simek or
Tony Pace posted the list of them) were considered by the people
living there to be part of the Slovak homeland.  They no longer are.
Maps and records of the Slovaks who emigrated to the United States in
the 1880s to 1912 show where they came from, and a great number of
them came from these areas.  That is why their demands when they
united with the Czechs to help break up Austria-Hungary included large
areas of what is now Hungary as part of what they expected to be their
independent homeland.  The term refers only to those counties and
adjacent counties in Slovakia, not to the main part of Hungary.

> logo gfrajkor uses is what Slovakia uses for its national emblem, that was
> simply lifted out of Hungary's coat of arms.

     So congratulate us on our good taste.
     Charles de Gaulle also had good taste, and so does the Russian
Orthodox Church.

    Jan George Frajkor                      _!_
 School of Journalism, Carleton Univ.      --!--
 1125 Colonel By Drive                       |
 Ottawa, Ontario                            /^\
 Canada K1S 5B6                         /^\     /^\
  o: 613 788-7404   fax: 613 788-6690  h: 613 563-4534
+ - Corrections: DC area Benefit Violin Recital (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

*** Correction: My previous posting had some errors in the "Directions".
                Corrections are marked with asterisks.  My apologies.

What:           Recital to raise money to support establishment of
                the Rev. Attila Csongvay Memorial Clinic in the
                village of Szentgerice (Galatini), Transylvania,
                Romania, the location of our Unitarian partner church.
                The recital will be followed by a reception with

Featuring:      Octavian Slima  violinist with the U.S. Airforce

Accompanist:    Judy Harrison   pianist, Music Director of the
                                Fairfax Unitarian Church.

Music:          Vivaldi:        Four Seasons
                Mozart:         Sonata K454
                Bach:           Solo Sonata
                DeSarasate:     Zigeunerweisen

When:           Sunday afternoon, April 9, 1995, 3:00 PM.

Where:          Fairfax Unitarian Church
                2709 Hunter Mill Road
                Oakton, Virgina

Directions:     Beltway to I-66 west, exit I-66 at Route 123
                (**Chain Bridge Road**) toward **Vienna and**
                Oakton.  Go to **fourth** stop light to Hunter
                Mill Road (at Appalachian Outfitters store).
                Turn left onto Hunter Mill Road, go about a mile.
                Turn right into parking lot of Fairfax Unitarian
                Church at low wooden church sign.  It's just past
                the Morman Church.

Donation:       $12.00

Reservations:   not required

Questions?      Call:  703-860-2504  Bob Tripp
                       703-323-8293  Emery Lazar
| Michael D. Berger    | "Above the clouds, the sun always shines." |
|   |        Csongvay Attila (1940-1993)         |
+ - Re: A Coup? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Csaba Zoltani writes:
> On 31 Mar 95 Andras Kornai writes
> >...the agreement with Slovakia was a major coup
> This is rather puzzling in the light of the very negative press reports
> coming from Europe, completely leaving aside comments of the people
> adversely affected. Also, per Webster's, a coup is defined as
> "a brilliant, sudden, and usu. highly successful stroke or act".
> What was brilliant about this agreement?

      I am just now doing some studying on the treaty but a
preliminary reply is that it is the same as Richard Nixon being the
only American who could recognize Communist China.  If the Democrats
had done it, they would have been howled down as pinko traitors.  But
the process of recognizing China had to start somewhere, and even a
distant friendship is better than outright hostility.
   So we have a guy like Meciar, whom the people believe to be a solid
Slovak Nationalist, as the only one who could really start the
process in Slovakia, --and Horn, the internationalist lefty,  badly
needing to polish his reputation in the West.
  I think of the treaty as the start of something important, and that
is its importance... namely, it is the beginning of the end of the
First World War.

    Jan George Frajkor                      _!_
 School of Journalism, Carleton Univ.      --!--
 1125 Colonel By Drive                       |
 Ottawa, Ontario                            /^\
 Canada K1S 5B6                         /^\     /^\
  o: 613 788-7404   fax: 613 788-6690  h: 613 563-4534
+ - Invitation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

European Youth Event
'Multi-culture, Youth and Enviroment'
1st - 13th August, 1995
at Low Bank Ground, Coniston, England

In October 1990, Low Bank Ground hosted the "Touch '90" European Conference on
environmental education. This was a small-scale conference with an emphasis on
personal experience and interactive and co-operative learning. Since that time,
there have been many links established through the Touch network; programme
exchanges, regional meetings, translations of materials and joint international
The first international Youth Event, based on the TOUCH philosophy, was held at
Low Bank Ground in 1994. This second event will bring together a group of young
people from seven European countries to share ideas on multiculture, youth and
the environment.

        Aims of the event
1. To encourage international understanding and co-operation by young people.
2. To share ideas on multiculture, youth and environment.
3. To allow young people to develop their own programme and initiatives.
5. To develop communication skills and English.
6. To encourage the development of the Young 'Touch' network set up in the 1994
international event.

The programme will be devised by the young people but it will include the
following elements:
1. Participants presentation on aspects of environment and multiculture in
their own countries. These presentations may be talks, displays, demonstrations
music, dance, etc.
2. Discussion groups to exchange ideas, encourage international co-operation,
environmental awareness and youth initiatives.
3. A practical conservation project working with local conservation organisa-
tions - National Trust os British Trust for Conservation Volunteers on a
community conservation scheme.
4. An adverturous journey planned by participants to include travel into
mountains, overnight bivvy and some simple field surveys en route.
5. Workshops to encourage global education and to consider multicultural and
environmental issues.
6. Developing communication/English language skills.
7. Preparation of partitipants' report on the Event.
8. Sharing and living in a co-operative environment for two weeks and preparing
plans for the future.

The group will be selected from young people (equal sexes) aged 18-25 years
who have strong interest in the environment and multicultural issues. There
will be four participants from each countries: Czech Republic, Hungary, Spain,
Greece, Netherlands, Austria and United Kingdom. Participants will be respon-
sible for their cost of travel to and from Coniston. There is no charge for the

Please ask for more information
     Dolgos Marietta, 7625 Pe'cs, Nyi'l utca 19., Tel: 72-313-292
      or E-mail:  (Devescovi Bala'zs)
Applications must be send by May 12, 1995.