Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 833
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-10-31
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Laszlo Hunyadi (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: only one explanation (mind)  64 sor     (cikkei)
3 Sva'rc Be'rniko (mind)  39 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Aradi vertanuk (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Laszlo Hunyadi (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
6 Last day low fares to Hungary! (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
7 Last day low fares to Hungary! (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Laszlo Hunyadi (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
9 CHEAP FLIGHTS TO CENTRAL EUROPE (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Last day low fares to Hungary! (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: 1956 Te Csillag (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: National Song---Nemzeti Dal ---Translation (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Laszlo Hunyadi (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

"Eva S. Balogh" > wrote:

>        All right, let's take the above apart. Janos Hunyadi is a national
>hero, according to you, "despite his national origin." It just shows how
>easy it is to mix up the present with the past. Just because his family came
>from Moldavia it doesn't mean that he was a Romanian. Just because he became
>a servitor of the Hungarian king it doesn't mean that he was a Hungarian
>patriot. You are applying modern concepts to an age which didn't think in
>those terms.

Not that it matters too much, but Hunyadi's family was from Wallachia,
not Moldavia, and, if we are to believe the chronicle of the counts
Cilli, Janos was actually born in Wallachia.

Anyhow, I subscribe to Eva's viewpoint that for an individual, in
those times, feudal- and religious-dependence weighted more  than his
ethnicity. None of Hunyadi's actions indicate that, from an ethnical
viewpoint, he felt either Romanian or Hungarian.

Regards,

Liviu Iordache
+ - Re: only one explanation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
 says...
>
>At 06:18 PM 10/27/96 -0500, Ferenc Novak wrote:
>
>>There he goes [Andras Kornai] again.  The offspring of families belonging
>to that part of the
>> intellectual elite that willingly served the Kadar regime -- as long as
it
>>was advantageous -- have a real problem about this time of the year.  Yes,
>>1956 is a very embarrassing numeral for them.  So they try to rewrite
history
>>to make their  --    or their older kin's -- behavior during the Kadar
years
>>acceptable.  First, they deny that there was an armed fight for freedom;
>>next, that it was actually a reform-communist happening gone wrong when
>>right-wingers took over.  Eventually they might reason that the whole
thing
>>was a riot, and not much more.
>
>        I beg you not to bring discord onto this list. Nowadays there is no
>discord even on the Forum, although October 23 came and October 23 went.
The
>revolution of 1956 was the revolution of Andras's family as well as mine
>and, I would say, 99 percent of all Hungarian families at the time. What is
>wrong with you? When a whole country celebrated the fortieth anniversary in
>relative tranquility, why do yo have to arouse hatred. Moreover, you are so
>terribly unsuccessful at it. All of us who know Janos Kornai's work has
only
>admiration for him and your opinions will not change that.

Please do not bring discord??? You mean please do not contradict Eva
Balogh! I've heard other Hungarians express their misgivings about the
1956 uprising, but that doesn't mean they should all shut up because
it offends your, or anyone else's, sensibilities. Such a discussion is,
in fact, only to be welcomed. When are you going to grow up, for crying
out loud???

>>It is worth noting that they rarely try to sell their views on
>>Hungarian-language lists, whose readers are more knowledgeable about the
>>subject.  They must think that non-Hungarians can be told anything as long
>>as it is in reasonably good English.
>
>        Don't underestimate the readership of this list. They are more
>knowledgeable than you think. Some of them are learning Hungarian and also
>are reading quite widely on Hungarian history and recent politics. The fact
>is that the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 was the revolution of the widest
>segments of the population. From the reform communists to the conservatives
>everybody took part. The revolution itself was defeated within a few weeks
>and therefore the differences of the participants' political outlook
>couldn't really emerge. If the revolution had been successful, I'm sure,
the
>differences of political opinions would have come to the surface. But as it
>stands the revolution managed to bring together the whole Hungarian nation.
>There were only very few exceptions. So, please!

What doubletalk! You are the one who underestimates the readership.
When shutting out discussion of uncomfortable issues becomes part of
this list's agenda, then the champions of Rakosi style attitudes will
have won.

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ICPUG..C=64 * ARM Club..Acorn * NWLCC
+ - Sva'rc Be'rniko (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

This just in from the Raleigh News & Observer (Noise & Disturber), Oct. 29
edition:

"Hungary honored one of its most famous sons Monday, bestowing a
knighthood on movie star Bernie Schwartz. Bernie who? Make that Tony
Curtis, who was made a Knight of the Order of Merit of the Republic while
in the country for a festival marking the 100th anniversary of
movie-making in the Central European nation. Curtis' parents emigrated
from eastern Hungary to America in the early 1920s and met in New York at
a Hungarian social. The star of classics including "Some Like It Hot" was
named Bernie Schwartz at birth and grew up speaking Hungarian. He didn't
realize until he was six or seven that he lived in America. 'I owe my life
to gulyas soup and bull's blood (a potent Hungarian red wine),' Curtis
told the daily Magyar Nemzet."

The article about Sir Bernie's honor includes a photo of the tanned,
cotton-headed aristocrat which bears a startling resemblence to Exeter,
the anal retentive alien spaceship commander played by Jeff Morrow in the
1950s sci-fi classic "This Island Earth." All I want to know is how does
one say, 'Yondah lies da castle of my faddah" in Magyar?

On a more serious cultural note, the current issue of TV Guide has a nice
little sidebar about Magyar-American animator Gabor Csupo. Csupo is the
genius responsible for bringing Matt Groening's "The Simpsons" to
television. He's also the animator of Nickelodeon's popular "Rugrats"
cartoon.
Sam Stowe

"Earth to Fred, Earth to Fred...
Ahhh, come in, Congressman..."
-- Tag line from a t.v. ad run by
Democratic challenger David Price
against incumbent U.S. Congressman
Fred Heineman (Fourth District,
 North Carolina). Last year, Heineman
enraged thousands of his constituents
when he insisted publicly that his $100,000+
annual salary and pension placed him in
the "lower middle class."
+ - Re: Aradi vertanuk (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Janos Zsargo > writes:

>And one question. The American Independence War can be interpreted as
>treason against the authority of the British crown. As far as I know
>everybody accepted the British sovereignity over what is the US now
>(except the americans of course). So George Washington is a national
>hero or traitor? Well maybe he is a traitor for the Brits but that is
>their problem.
>
>J.Zs

Not to nitpick (or pick at nits), but a significant portion of the British
populace sympathized with the American rebels, including many of the
crown's more enlightened professional army officers. On the other hand,
here in North Carolina as much as one-third of the pre-war population
picked up after Yorktown and moved to the Canadian Maritime provinces
because they collaborated with the British during the war and could no
longer live in peace with their rebellious neighbors. Thus originated the
quintessential rule of sandlot football known to any man who grew up in
the U.S.: "Suckers walk." And George Washington? He was a Virginian, which
means that national hero or traitor, he was vastly overrated.
Sam Stowe

"Earth to Fred, Earth to Fred...
Ahhh, come in, Congressman..."
-- Tag line from a t.v. ad run by
Democratic challenger David Price
against incumbent U.S. Congressman
Fred Heineman (Fourth District,
 North Carolina). Last year, Heineman
enraged thousands of his constituents
when he insisted publicly that his $100,000+
annual salary and pension placed him in
the "lower middle class."
+ - Re: Laszlo Hunyadi (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

L.Iordache wrote:

>Not that it matters too much, but Hunyadi's family was from Wallachia,
>not Moldavia, and, if we are to believe the chronicle of the counts
>Cilli, Janos was actually born in Wallachia.

Which area was called Wallachia? Isn't it the plane on the northern bank of
Danube? Because that area was called Havasalfold by the Hungarians (as far
as I know).

>Anyhow, I subscribe to Eva's viewpoint that for an individual, in
>those times, feudal- and religious-dependence weighted more  than his
>ethnicity. None of Hunyadi's actions indicate that, from an ethnical
>viewpoint, he felt either Romanian or Hungarian.

This is probably true, but nobody was talking about this, only B.E.
I consider him a national hero because of his positive role in the
Hungarian History. Because of him and his family the turkish occupation
was much shorter than it could have been, and the reign of his son
Matyas, was one of the most prosperous period of Hungarian History.
Their ethnicity or their motivation is not that important. Pal Tomori
could be the patriot no.1 of his century, yet nobody would
consider him national hero.

J.Zs
+ - Last day low fares to Hungary! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

To those it may concern:

A bit late, but.....

Lufthansa, KLM and Delta have very low  roundtrip fares to Budapest.
Unfortunately they have to be booked before midnight Thursday, 10/31/96.
Trips must be completed on or before March 19, 1997, some blackouts apply.
The tickets are about $441 round trip, and it's non-stop with Delta/Malev.
Not a bad deal, so hurry up.

Anna M.
+ - Last day low fares to Hungary! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Whoops, forgot to mention it's from New York to Bp.

Sorry.....



>
>To those it may concern:
>
>A bit late, but.....
>
>Lufthansa, KLM and Delta have very low  roundtrip fares to Budapest.
Unfortunately they have to be booked before midnight Thursday, 10/31/96.
Trips must be completed on or before March 19, 1997, some blackouts apply.
The tickets are about $441 round trip, and it's non-stop with Delta/Malev.
Not a bad deal, so hurry up.
>
>Anna M.
>
+ - Re: Laszlo Hunyadi (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 05:00 AM 10/30/96 GMT, Liviu wrote:

>Not that it matters too much, but Hunyadi's family was from Wallachia,
>not Moldavia, and, if we are to believe the chronicle of the counts
>Cilli, Janos was actually born in Wallachia.

        I always manage to get confused when it comes to Havasalfold. I
never know whether it is Moldavia or Wallachia. My high-school history
teacher (the same boring one for four solid years) didn't even get up from
her desk to point to a map. And later I was learning history in English. In
any case, I will try to remember from here on.

        Thanks. Eva
+ - CHEAP FLIGHTS TO CENTRAL EUROPE (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

To expand on the sale to Budapest, you can go from New York to Warsaw
for $401 and ffrom New York to Prague for $398 - Delta and a few
others (don't remember which).

By the way, I'm not advertising this as such, nor do I have any
connection with the company, but you can find out the latest fares
from the U.S. to just about any place and American carrier flies (or
connects with another major carrier) from the Travelocity website.
the address is

http://www.travelocity.com


For instance, I found a price of $447 from Charlotte, North Carolina,
to Warsaw around the first of March, next year from the site.  I've
yet to see it cheaper (NOTE: this is from Charlotte and not New
York).


Frank A. Aycock

Frank A. Aycock, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Communication
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC 28608 U.S.A.
Fax: (704) 262-2543
E-Mail: 
+ - Re: Last day low fares to Hungary! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 03:20 AM 10/30/96 -0800, you wrote:
>To those it may concern:
>
>A bit late, but.....
>
>Lufthansa, KLM and Delta have very low  roundtrip fares to Budapest.
>Unfortunately they have to be booked before midnight Thursday, 10/31/96.
>Trips must be completed on or before March 19, 1997, some blackouts apply.
>The tickets are about $441 round trip, and it's non-stop with Delta/Malev.
>Not a bad deal, so hurry up.
>
>Anna M.
>
>

If you are interested, try Eva Kinga Farnsworth at .  I
use her for my travel needs.


Charlie Vamossy
+ - Re: 1956 Te Csillag (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Orban Viktor, the very talented young politician,
the leader of one of the most popular Hungarian
Parties, the FIDESz had his latest note about
the governing coalition.

The unity of the coalition is based on the common
behavior of the present day leaders of the 2
coalition parties (SzDSz and MSzP) back in the
time, during the Kadarian repression against the
Hungarian society after the Hungarian Revolution
in 1956, he said.

I admire the sharpness of this young politician that
he was able to give a such revealing description
about the bounds between these party leaders. The
SzDSz is able to show us a couple of guys in its
ranks who "were in prison" after 56. But it should
not be regarded as a 'certificate of cleanness' of
the party. Actually, these poor guys (e.g. Mecs
Imre) in the SzDSz are simply used for cover-up.

Of course, the SzDSz leadership went completely nuts.
They never expected this kind of attack from a
liberal party leader. It could be a sign that the
SzDSz is down on its way sinking out not only of
the political power (governing position) but possibly
also of the Hungarian parliament itself...

1956, you are a shining star!
                                           Sz. Zoli
+ - Re: National Song---Nemzeti Dal ---Translation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>40th anniversary of our Great 1956 Hungarian Revolution and

I agree that it was great, but please, don't use it like it was used in the
case of the Nagy Oktoberi Forradalom (the Great Revolution of October, the
lenin version).

Gabor D. Farkas

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