||Need any data on anti-gipsy sentiments? (mind)
|| 21 sor
||NEED E-MAIL OF NEPSZABADSAG (mind)
|| 8 sor
||Re: Something to Muse About (mind)
|| 31 sor
||Re: NEED E-MAIL OF NEPSZABADSAG (mind)
|| 21 sor
||Re: Something to Muse About (mind)
|| 6 sor
||Re: The usual (mind)
|| 22 sor
||U.S. Exchange Student (mind)
|| 45 sor
|| 14 sor
||A Dubious Distinction (mind)
|| 31 sor
||Re: greetings on Hungary. (mind)
|| 13 sor
|| 1 sor
||About Christmas. (mind)
|| 33 sor
||Re: Romani Slavery (mind)
|| 23 sor
|+ - ||Need any data on anti-gipsy sentiments? (mind)
I am not sure the "magyarok/ciganyok" debate would need any
data about actual anti-gipsy sentiments. "Free debate" may
be better off if not hampered by actual measurements :-)
Should any need be felt, however, of some foundation for
(or against?) arguments seen over and over in this list lately,
the dec. 26 issue of "Nemzet" re-published the dec. 22 article
of Istvan Lovas in "Uj Magyarorszag", containing some actual
numbers originally published in the december 14 issue of "Magyar
Three journals have published and re-published (twice) so far
these data. If in addition (or instead of) harping on the tantamount
ill-feelings of Hungarians towards gipsies it needs to be documented
what is the ratio of population that has any less than favorable
sentiment towards gipsies one can easily lift the Lovas article
from "Nemzet" (URL: http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html).
Since "cross-posting" is a widely practiced art over the Internet
and it is ridiculous to attempt copyrighting re-published and/or
digested material, not only there is no prohibition to do so,
but use of actual data in otherwise empty "debates" is advised.
|+ - ||NEED E-MAIL OF NEPSZABADSAG (mind)
I am sorry, I don't speak magyarul.
I am french and I am looking for the e-mail of a friend of mine called
POCZ Balazs and working at the Nepszabadsag paper.
Thank you to everyone who could give me a way to contact him directly or
thru the redaction of the paper.
|+ - ||Re: Something to Muse About (mind)
In response to my and W. Batkay's post Peter Kaslik wrote:
>It is not amusing!
>I happen to believe that Jesus is God. Does that
>make me an antisemite?
>Jesus jokes at Christmas on a Hungarian newsgroup?
>This is still a public forum. Please respect our creed and customs.
>I wish I can wish you a merry something
Where were you the last two weeks Peter? This Hungarian newsgroup had
plenty of writers wishing everyone a happy, merry, something or other.
Where was the writers respect for the creed and customs of those who are not
religious? You can't have it both ways. On the one hand, you want to
inject a bit of your faith onto this newsgroup by wishing 'merry something'
to everyone, and then, on the other hand, you get annoyed when someone
challenges your faith. Religious chauvinism will, and should, be met
head-on by non-religious chauvinism. The alternative, of course, is for the
religious to keep their faith to themselves. That should ensure that the
non-religious stick to topics more relevant to the Hungarian newsgroup.
If you still have the urge to wish something to ALL the readers and writers
on this group may I suggest something like, 'good day', or 'have a good
weekend', or something like that.
P.S. Your 'with respect' is also ok.
|+ - ||Re: NEED E-MAIL OF NEPSZABADSAG (mind)
Nepszabadsag cannot yet be reached via e-mail (as far as I know). The
easiest way is to call. The central phone number is (36-1) 250-1680, and
ask for your friend.
University of Maryland
On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, olivier razemon wrote:
> I am sorry, I don't speak magyarul.
> I am french and I am looking for the e-mail of a friend of mine called
> POCZ Balazs and working at the Nepszabadsag paper.
> Thank you to everyone who could give me a way to contact him directly or
> thru the redaction of the paper.
> Olivier Razemon
|+ - ||Re: Something to Muse About (mind)
Please! Don't tell me what kind of a day should I have. Good Day? I have
|+ - ||Re: The usual (mind)
In response to my post, Sam Stowe wrote:
>>Thank God we
>>live in a democray and not a theocracy!
>The urge to point out the contradiction inherent in this one statement is
>almost overwhelming. But then, if Joe wrote it to be consistent with his
>stated beliefs, he'd have no one to thank but himself.
Clearly, Sam Stowe is one of the most sagacious writers to this newsgroup.
Too bad for him that I'm no longer handing out apostolic apprenticeships
because he would surely be at the top of the list. However, I hope Sam
understands that it's not because I don't need twelve good men. I mean, who
dosen't? It's just that with my terminal, mouse and reliable joy stick I'm
all set. I hope Sam understands. I'm sure he'll tell us. And who knows,
maybe one day he'll write about something Hungarian if he can ever leave the
|+ - ||U.S. Exchange Student (mind)
My name is Kysa Vincze. I am applying for a U.S. government scholarship
to pay for an ISEP exchange program in Hungary during the 1996-97
academic year. I am particularly interested in studying at the
Technical University Of Budapest for two reasons - 1)my ex-brother-in-law
just received his doctorate from TUB, and is now teaching there (Vincze
Arpad), and I also visited this university
two years ago, so there is a certain amount of familiarity, and 2) I
would like to take advantage of the two-semester program in Central
European Studies which includes extensive language instruction. I have
been wanting to learn the Magyar language for some time now, but it is
not offered at my university or any others in my area. This has forced
me to become somewhat of an auto-didact, listening to tapes and reading
language books available at my local bookstores.
In addition to these studies, I am also interested in doing a directed
study on my own. I would work with my advisor from my home university
(University of Minnesota, Twin Cities), and I am searching for one or two
people from TUB who would also be willing to work with me. I have done
research here in the States on the rise of Protestant
fundamentalism/evangelicalism in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries,
and its resurgence in the late twentieth century. I argued that religious
fundamentalism arises not only from economic despair or concerns, but
from a crisis in meaning. Tremendous political, social, economic, and
technological change lie at the root of this crisis in meaning, and
religious groups have historically taken these opportunities to gain
legitimacy and authority in various ways, through various mediums.
I would like to study the influx of Christian evangelicals from
Canada and the States into Eastern Europe, particularly Hungary. I have
heard that they journey to Hungary in order to teach English as a second
language, but end up weaving their religious beliefs into what is
supposed to be pure language instruction, blurring the line between
religion and politics (I believe all education is political.). I have also
heard that these groups provide social services that were formerly provided by
government, again finding an opening into which they can incorporate and
preach their religious values. I find this quite disturbing,
and would like to pursure research on this trend, and other tactics
Christian fundamentalists from the West are using to gain legitimacy and
authority in Hungary.
I would greatly appreciate hearing from someone at TUB or any university
in Hungary who would be willing to work with me on this project. Or if
someone out there knows of someone who would be interested, please
inform me as to how I could contact him or her.
Thank-you very much!
Kysa Koerner Vincze
|+ - ||Chauvinism (mind)
Toward the historic reconciliation, Funar style:
Reports from Cluj (Kolozsvar) have it that the Romanian mayor of the
city, Gheorghe Funar, asked the city council to change street names
which bear "the names of Hungarians, Jews or Communists."
Thus, the street named for the Hungarian writer Ady Endre would be
renamed for Leonard Mociulschiro, Arany Janos Street would
henceforth be called Simion Barnutiu etc.
Obviously, the road to Europe for Romania will be much longer than
CSABA K. ZOLTANI
|+ - ||A Dubious Distinction (mind)
Scientific American in its January 1996 issue reports on colorectal
mortality among men. Some excerpts,
The highest rates are in Hungary and the former Czechoslovakia, which
recorded respectively , 46 and 47 deaths per 100,000. In the US, white
males average 26 deaths per 100,000, whereas black men, who generally
receive inferior medical care, average 32 per 100,000. The lowest
mortality from colorectal cancer is in developing countries, such as
India, which is estimated to have a rate less than one twentieth that of
The large differences between developed and developing countries
reflect differences in environment, genetic inheritance, way of life
and, most important, diet. Countries, such as the US and Great Britain,
where people typically eat meals rich in fat, meat, dairy products and
protein, tend to have high rates of colorectal cancer; countries such as
India and China, where diets are traditionally high in fiber, cereals and
vegetables, tend to have low rates.
Exposure in the workplace to carcinogens such as asbestos may explain,
at least in part, the high rates in Hungary and the former
Czechoslovakia, where environmental safeguards have been lax, and in the
CSABA K. ZOLTANI
|+ - ||Re: greetings on Hungary. (mind)
>If you still have the urge to wish something to ALL the readers and writers
>on this group may I suggest something like, 'good day', or 'have a good
>weekend', or something like that.
Well, considering Joe's opinions about economy, society, religion, the
'Jo napot, elvtarsak!' (Good day, comerades! or Zdrastvujte tovarisi!)
wish would be quite appropriate to him.
|+ - ||BUEK (mind)
I wish to wish happy new year to all the members of this list.
|+ - ||About Christmas. (mind)
Szalai Jozsef wrote:
>Where were you the last two weeks Peter? This Hungarian newsgroup had
>plenty of writers wishing everyone a happy, merry, something or other.
>Where was the writers respect for the creed and customs of those who are not
>religious? You can't have it both ways. On the one hand, you want to
>inject a bit of your faith onto this newsgroup by wishing 'merry something'
>to everyone, and then, on the other hand, you get annoyed when someone
>challenges your faith.
There are lots of misunderstanding in the statements above. First, celebrating
Christmas does not make someone religious (or not necesserily). Celebrating
Christmas was always natural in Hungary, even in the old days of communism. Eve
party members celebrated Christmas, of course with denying its relegious
sense but keeping it as a nice holiday. I was an active 'kisdobos' and 'uttoro'
(For those who does not know, they were (are?) a kind of communist boy-scout
organisations.), but I had no problem with waiting for 'Jezuska' at Christmas
Second, one migth say, the above is true but the origin of this holiday is
religious. This is true, but not that sense as Joe and his fellows may think.
As far as I know the birth of Jesus Christ could not be on winter. The sheepers
activities in the story of Birth are done only springtime in Israel. The
reason why the Church picked up this date is the old Roman holidays called
'Saturnalia'. They couldn't force the people not to celebrate it so they made i
a christain holiday. The origin of the New Year Eve is also the Saturnalia.
So Joe turned against the wrong god, he should complain at Saturnus about the
religiuos origin of Christmas. Beside he should not go any New Year Eve party,
because it also has the same origin.
|+ - ||Re: Romani Slavery (mind)
Csaba K Zoltani writes:
> Not quite. On p.179 the author says, " ... I sat reading Mihail
> Kogalniceanu's 1837 treatise on Gypsy slaves."
> Hardly a claim to have discovered the history of slavery in Wallachia.
> However, later on p. 186 she comments on the general ignorance of
> Romanians, and even Roma, about their own history and past.
The best analysis of the Romani slaves in Romania is by A. G. Golesco in
"De l"Abolition du Servage dans les Principautes Danubiennes", Paris. 1856.
There were about 150,000 of them, divided into three categories: those
belonging to the state, to the monasteries and to private individuals. The
first two categories were freed in 1848, the third at the end of 1855. The
origin of their status is unknown, but gipsies never appear in Roumanian
history except as slaves. (page 18).
There maybe a problem with the referenced Kogalniceanu date, if I recall
correctly he published his autobiography in 1916, thus he would have been
rather young in 1837, but I do not know his birthdate.