Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 52
Copyright (C) HIX
1994-08-21
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 multiculturalism (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
2 A monarchy? (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
3 Hungarian foreign policy? (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
4 Impartiality of the media (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
5 the Church under Kadar (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Hungarian foreign policy? (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Litigation, was Media watch (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: E-mail address (mind)  62 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Wines was: Hungarian foreign policy? (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
10 Jeliko's draft, my version (mind)  44 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: E:MAIL ADDRESS (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: the Church under Kadar (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Litigation, was Media watch (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Litigation, was Media watch (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Litigation, was Media watch (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)

+ - multiculturalism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva Durant said:
 > I value local cultures, such as music, art and cuisine, but I do not
 > think, that means I have to support outdated structures of society,
 > which are only maintained by force. (or deception ; royals in UK)
                                           ^^^^^^^^^

    British monarchy maintained by deception?  How so?  Are all those Brits who
favor the monarchy's retention being deceived?  Too bad that most of the UK's
population isn't as enlightened as you are...

    Norb
+ - A monarchy? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Martin Durant said:
 > The point in not having a monarchy is that in a republic the people
 > can choose "decent" persons to rule the country, and get rid of them if
 > they are found to be unsatisfactory, whareas in a monarchy the
 > "decentness" of the ruler is left up to chance and there is no way of
 > removing them.

    And you, as a resident of the United Kingdom, actually believe that
Queen Elizabeth (or any other Western European monarch) _rules_?!
Please...
+ - Hungarian foreign policy? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Imi Bokor wrote:
>...roumania is also non-aligned...

    What makes you say that?

    Norb
+ - Impartiality of the media (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Imi Bokor wrote:
 wrote:
>: This is new to me. I would like to see a few examples of this
>: conservative/liberal, anti-change and pro-establishment journalism in the
>: west. Or history, for that matter. Eva Balogh

>Try the British press in the Boer War or the Great War (WWI) for a start.

    I was under the impression that the discussion was about present day media.
Perhaps your encyclopedia forgot to mention that the Boer War took place at the
turn of the century, while WWI was fought 1914-1918.  This is 1994.

    Norb
+ - the Church under Kadar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In response to Imi Bokor's last comments on the above topic (about three months
ago):

Thanks for your synopsis of the English Catholic Church's
relationship to the state.  However, it has little bearing on either your
view of the Church under Kadar (IMHO, taken while you were wearing rose
colored sunglasses) or on your lame assertation that the churches have cozy
relations with states in the West.

As far as the latter subject, your "evidence" falls miserably short of your
claims for two reasons.  First, you willfully ignore that the relationship
in Great Britain has become purely ceremonial and that in no way does it
hinder anybody's freedom of religion, or anyone's aspirations (except to the
throne, which has to be held by a Protestant and maybe to several auxiliary
organs of the monarchy, like the KGs).  More importantly, it seems that your
definition of West is synonymous to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland, so even if your interpretation of church state relations
in the UK were correct, it would still render your allegation unproven
because it doesn't take a lot to know that the "West" is compromised of more
than one country.

As for the Church under Kadar, I assume you found Hoensch too damning of
your skewed analysis to respond to what he had to say (FYI, that was the major
point of the thread).

Norb
+ - Re: Hungarian foreign policy? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Fri, 19 Aug 1994 19:33:07 -0600 Norbert Walter said:
>Imi Bokor wrote:
>>...roumania is also non-aligned...
>
>    What makes you say that?
>
>    Norb

This appears to be "Bash Bokor" week!  He is, of course, capable of
defending himself, so I won't get into this beyond saying that he
is extremely knowledgeable about the quality of Australian wine and
can send a heckova good list to anyone interested.

Charles
+ - Re: Litigation, was Media watch (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> >
> >P.S. I assume you read in today's news that currently there are 1
million
> >cases pending in the overworked Hungarian courts. That means, at least 2
> >million people are involved in litigation--out of 10 million!

> --Ah, but what a bonanza for the lawyers!  A young person in Hungary
> would be well advised to forget going into business and to take to the
> law.  Is there any way we could send about half of our lawyers to
> Hungary?  No, that's not a good idea.  The Hungarians have done nothing
> to us that deserves such inhuman treatment.  Sorry for even mentioning
> it.

> Charles

Just wait. To my knowledge there are more law school students in the US,
than practicing lawyers. So in four years we will double the crop. Just
when the pesticides are being outlawed.

Regards,Jeliko.
+ - Re: E-mail address (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Jeliko,

> This is terrific. What about composing a note to Geza Simon. Would you
like
> to do it and after publishing it we could all add our two-cents worth.
Eva
> Balogh

Well, considering that I will be away from the office for two weeks. I can
start a draft to throw rocks at. I hope somebody(s) will try to edit the
draft while I am gone, so we could be a little closer to having something
if the consensus is in this direction. I am not presuming that Mr Simon
knows English, however I do better in English. I hope that someone who is
better in Hungarian will translate into "magyar hivatalnokese".

Dear Mr Simon:

We are some of the partcipants of the electronic newsgroup
<bit.listserve.hungary>. The participation is open and the subjects vary
from current affairs, to ancient history, with everything else in between.
One can find views, using the conventional political divisions, from left
to right. The submittals to the newsgroup are not subjected to anything but
self-censorship, thus at times it can be biting. Based on the pre and post
Hungarian election views, there are followers of many parties participating
in the discussions. The partcipation is international and generally is in
English. There is another newsgroup <soc.culture.magyar> which has similar
discussions more often in Hungarian.

After this introduction, we would like to make a proposition. It is, in our
opinion, important that communication between such open forums as the
nesgroup and the Hungarian government is maintained. A completly free of
any government's influence newsgroup's opinions and discussions could be
educational for Hungarian audiences, while the unfiltered news from the
Hungarian government is more valuable than the often highly opinionated
conventional media transmittals, for our international newsgroup.

Therefore, we would like to invite the Informatika Foosztaly to participate
in monitoring and contributing to the discussions. If that is not possible
we would request the possible assignment of a particular contact point for
inquiries and follow ups regarding the policies and formal opinions of the
Hungarian Government.

This would be a win - win situation for both of us. You could gain
additional insite into the uncensored discussions of Hungarians and those
interested in Hungary, while the newsgroup participants could get
directly the opinions and policy briefings of the Hungarian Government.

We apologize in advance for the possible harsh language that may occur in
our as in any uncensored newsgroup, however the opportunity and requirement
for direct electronic communication is the wave of the future.

Regards, The Newsgroup.


I do not know if this format is acceptable or not. However, I have found in
the past that it is easier to start taking apart a draft than to talk
people into starting one. I hope that by the time I get back there will be
a big improvement on the draft. Perhaps the same or similar message can be
sent to the other E-mail address we got also. (Tony, you are welcome too.
:-))

Regards,Jeliko
+ - Re: Wines was: Hungarian foreign policy? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Charles writes:

> This appears to be "Bash Bokor" week!  He is, of course, capable of
> defending himself, so I won't get into this beyond saying that he
> is extremely knowledgeable about the quality of Australian wine and
> can send a heckova good list to anyone interested.

> Charles

Now let me see. the supperior quality can be ascribed to a special
filtering process utilizing Kangoroo hair. It is carefully matted and the
wine is percolated through the pad. It improves the wine by leaps and
bounds. However, for real good wines visit New Zealand, the foreland of the
big Australian hinterland. Now, if Imi would send out samples instead of
lists, I could be persuaded to consider his opinion also. :-)

Jeliko, living under the terror of the Columbus OH police dept.
+ - Jeliko's draft, my version (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

****
Dear Mr Simon:

We are some of the participants of the electronic newsgroup
<bit.listserve.hungary>. Participation is open and subjects vary
from current affairs to ancient history, with everything else in between.
One can find views, using the conventional political divisions, from left
to right. Submissions to the newsgroup are not subjected to anything but
self-censorship, and thus at times can be biting. Based on the pre- and post-
Hungarian election views, there are followers of many parties participating
in the discussions. Participation is international and generally is in
English. There is another newsgroup <soc.culture.magyar> which has similar
discussions more often in Hungarian.

After this introduction, we would like to make a proposition. It is, in our
opinion, important that communication between an open forum such as this
newsgroup and the Hungarian government be maintained. The opinions and
discussions of a newsgroup which is completely free of any government's
influence could be educational for Hungarian audiences; while the unfiltered
news from the Hungarian government is more valuable to our international
newsgroup than the often highly opinionated conventional media transmittals.

Therefore, we would like to invite the Informatika Foosztaly to participate
by monitoring and contributing to the discussions. If that is not possible,
we would request the possible assignment of a particular contact point for
inquiries and follow ups regarding the policies and formal opinions of the
Hungarian Government.

This would be a win-win for both of us. You could gain
additional insight from the uncensored discussions of Hungarians and those
interested in Hungary, while the newsgroup participants could get
directly the opinions and policy briefings of the Hungarian Government.

We apologize in advance for the unavoidable harsh language that will occur in
our--as in any other uncensored--newsgroup, however the opportunity and
requirement for direct electronic communication is the wave of the future.

Regards, The Newsgroup.


                                ****


--Greg
+ - Re: E:MAIL ADDRESS (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

To Stephen Paredes:

pogacsa is a kind of biscuit

--Marc
+ - Re: the Church under Kadar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Norb--

What about in the USA? The church is not only cozy with the state, but with
the corporate sector and media as well (in spite of recent assertions that
the media ridicules/ignores religion).

For example: when was the last time you heard anyone declare on TV that they
were an athiest or agnostic? I'm sure a healthy percentage of the population
would fit into one of these categories. Is that censorship, or only self-
censorship?

Marc
+ - Re: Litigation, was Media watch (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Jeliko--

Don't forget that great statistic. The U.S. has 5% of the world's population
and 70% of its lawyers!

Marc
+ - Re: Litigation, was Media watch (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sat, 20 Aug 1994 16:36:37 GMT JELIKO said:
>
>Just wait. To my knowledge there are more law school students in the US,
>than practicing lawyers. So in four years we will double the crop. Just
>when the pesticides are being outlawed.
>
Wonderful!  I can't top your remark!

Charles
+ - Re: Litigation, was Media watch (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Marc Nasdor writes:

> Jeliko--

> Don't forget that great statistic. The U.S. has 5% of the world's
population
> and 70% of its lawyers!

> Marc

Yes Marc and half them are always court certified incompetents, because
they loose the case they take to court. I think it should be the
constitutional right of every American to practice law. Or all costs of
training future lawyers should be funded not by the taxpayers in general,
but by the ABA only. See how easy it is to find common ground among
politically diverse people?

Regards,Jeliko.
Read you all next month.

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