Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 530
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1995-12-25
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Looking for recipe (mind)  45 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: zionism and communism (mind)  50 sor     (cikkei)
3 To gouge (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Gypsies/Hungarian (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
5 OPERA (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: To gouge (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: zionism and communism (mind)  72 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: To gouge (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: CONTACT IN BUDAPEST (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Looking for recipe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

JZorko ) wrote:

: I am searching for a recipe for a bread-type dessert that my grandmother
: made at Christmas.  I don't know the actual spelling but she called it
: kollach (ch as in child).  I have seen recipes for something of a similar

Recipe for Kal'acs (pronounced kuh-lach) The word comes from the
Slavic "kol'ac", which in turn comes from "kolo", meaning circle.

2/3 cup milk        1/4 pound butter
1 pack yeast        3 egg yolks
3 cups flour        1 tsp salt
1/4 cup sugar       1 whole egg, separated
filling of groun walnuts, poppy seed, lekvar, apricot, etc.

1. Warm milk. To half the milk add the yeast, 2 tablespoons flour and
1 tablespoon sugar. Mix well. Let the starter rest for 10 minutes.

2. Mix the rest of the flour and butter till the mixture forms crumbs.
Then add the rest of the milk and the yeast mixture with egg yolks,
remaining sugar and the salt. Mix well. Knead for 10 to 12 minutes.

3. Let the dough rise till it doubles, 45 min to 1 hour.

4. Put the dough on a floured board and let rise again.

5. Roll out dough fill with ground nuts (or other) and roll into log.

6. Beat the extra egg yolk with 1 teaspoon water and brush the loaf.
Let dry (10 minutes) Brush loaf with the egg white.

7. Bake in preheated 375f oven for 40 minutes.


Enjoy
--Paul


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
|  "All is number" Pythagoras
|  "e^(i*Pi) + 1 = 0"  Euler
|  "The answer...is 42" Deep Thought
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
+ - Re: zionism and communism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Felado : Zsargo Janos
> [Joe Szalai writes]
> >What you say is probably true.  However my contact with the Hungarian
> >community was/is limited mainly to the '56ers.  It was amongst some of them
> >that I heard a lot of anti-semitic comments.
>
> This is probably due to the idea that blames the Jews for creating
> communism.  Most people with ultraconservative ideas (almost fascists)
> believe that cionism and communism is essentially the same.
I think there is indeed such a belief, but it never ceases to amaze me.
Zionism, as far as I can see, is simply the Jewish version of nationalism,
saying that Jewish culture/religion/tradition are wonderful things. Its
central tenet is that Jews have a right to live in their own country.  With
the increasing acceptance of Israel's right to exist, the dream of the
founders of the Zionist movement (as opposed to the territorial claims to
"biblical lands" by an extremist faction) has been largely fulfilled.

Communism, on the other hand, treats no pre-existing culture or tradition as
valuable, and of course the anti-religious thrust of communist ideology is
very explicit. Its central tenet is the collective ownership of the means of
production -- a dream that looks increasingly unrealistic. Remarkably, Jewish
culture, religion, and tradition views private property as a good thing,
starting with the tenth commandment. The Talmud has a more sophisticated model
of property rights than any legal code prior to the 19th century. So how
communism, which attacks the foundations of private property, can be viewed as
a zionist thing, is something of a mystery to me.

It is slightly less mysterious how communism can be blamed on Jews -- after
all, a large percentage of the most prominent communist leaders and ideologues
were ethnically Jewish. But of course they were Jewish only by ethnicity,
having explicitely renounced Jewish religion, laws, and tradition. One has to
be viewing the world from an exclusively racial perspective to think that
people like Karl Marx or Be1la Kun were Jewish. That is exactly what the nazis
did, and I imagine their slogans about "judeobolshevism" still resonate with
today's ultraright.

> >Andras also asks:
> >
> >>As for being 'jewed' this is an English expression -- how does
> >>it go in Hungarian?
>
> As far as I know, and my Hungarian should be appropriate, there is no
> such expression in this context.
I was quite certain there is no such expression in Hungarian, but wanted
to check all the same. As a matter of fact, there is a pejorative expression
"ciga1nykodik" 'act like a Gypsy' but there is no "*zsido1skodik" which to
some extent reinforces the point that Gypsies are more stigmatized in
Hungarian society than Jews.

Andra1s Kornai
+ - To gouge (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe Szalai:

>In English, the word 'gouge' also means 'a fraud, a cheat, an imposter'.
>Maybe Rebecca can tell us if 'gouge' and 'gadj' are pronounced the same way.

It has nothing to do with it. The word `gouge' is of Celtic origin and could
be found already in Middle English as `gowge,' meaning `to chisel,' `to
scoop.'

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Gypsies/Hungarian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Janos Zsargo wrote:

>>would allow anyone to live in my appartment who paid the rent, didn't
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>wreck the place, and allowed me eight hours of quiet at night.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Based on the underlined requirements one can say you do not accept
>'significant differences'.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, Janos.  Perhaps it might help if
I put quotation marks around 'accept' and removed them from 'significant
differences'.  For example, I'll state that I'm not a religious person but I
'accept' those who are.  If I had a place to rent, I'd rent regardless of
race, colour, religion, etc.  Now, if someone I rented to had a religious
belief and they had to sing and dance at three in the morning, and as a
result I would be deprived of my sleep, then yes, that would be a
significant difference and I would cease to rent to them.  Does that make me
intolerant?  I still 'accept' their religion but I don't want them to
practice it in my house because it cuts into my sleeping time.  On the other
hand, if I was always working the night shift, I really wouldn't care if
they sang and danced all night as long as there was quiet when I got home to
sleep.  All this may not be an ideal situation or example but it will have
to do.  If you still want to maintain that I do not accept 'significant
differences', you may do so.

Joe Szalai
+ - OPERA (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I found the Budapest opera schedule the other day on INTERNET.  Now I can't
find it.  Please give me a clue!  Thanks- Richard Cline at 
+ - Re: To gouge (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva Balogh's answer has nothing to do with my question.  I was not asking
for the definition of qouge.  I too have a dictionary.  I was asking for the
origin of the slang meaning of gouge, which means 'a fraud, a cheat, an
imposter'.

Janos Zsargo's comment is interesting.

>As I know the "ga'dzsi" (I do not know how to write correctly) means women,
>female in Roman. The word gadje looks similar to "ga'dzsi".

If you are correct, Janos, then another meaning of gouge, this time from the
OED, makes this word search very interesting.

>gouge, sb.[2] Obs. [a. OFr. gouge.] A wench.

Of course a wench is a 'young woman'.  Could 'ga'dzsi' and 'gouge' be
related?  Could 'gouge' and 'gadje' be related?

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: zionism and communism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I agree with everything Andras Kornai wrote except the following.

>Communism, on the other hand, treats no pre-existing culture or tradition
>as valuable, and of course the anti-religious thrust of communist ideology
>is very explicit. Its central tenet is the collective ownership of the
>means of production -- a dream that looks increasingly unrealistic.

Yes, the dream looks unrealistic today.  But tomorrow is another day.

News reports say that over 200 people have frozen to death in Moscow since
November of this year.  In the West, the middle class is in decline.  If we
become societies of 'haves' and 'have not', then perhaps another look at the
collective ownership of the means of production will be worthwhile.  If free
market capitalism can't provide an adequate social safety net for all, then
it is a system with an increasingly unrealistic future.

Joe Szalai



>> Felado : Zsargo Janos
>> [Joe Szalai writes]
>> >What you say is probably true.  However my contact with the Hungarian
>> >community was/is limited mainly to the '56ers.  It was amongst some of them
>> >that I heard a lot of anti-semitic comments.
>>
>> This is probably due to the idea that blames the Jews for creating
>> communism.  Most people with ultraconservative ideas (almost fascists)
>> believe that cionism and communism is essentially the same.
>I think there is indeed such a belief, but it never ceases to amaze me.
>Zionism, as far as I can see, is simply the Jewish version of nationalism,
>saying that Jewish culture/religion/tradition are wonderful things. Its
>central tenet is that Jews have a right to live in their own country.  With
>the increasing acceptance of Israel's right to exist, the dream of the
>founders of the Zionist movement (as opposed to the territorial claims to
>"biblical lands" by an extremist faction) has been largely fulfilled.
>
>Communism, on the other hand, treats no pre-existing culture or tradition as
>valuable, and of course the anti-religious thrust of communist ideology is
>very explicit. Its central tenet is the collective ownership of the means of
>production -- a dream that looks increasingly unrealistic. Remarkably, Jewish
>culture, religion, and tradition views private property as a good thing,
>starting with the tenth commandment. The Talmud has a more sophisticated model
>of property rights than any legal code prior to the 19th century. So how
>communism, which attacks the foundations of private property, can be viewed as
>a zionist thing, is something of a mystery to me.
>
>It is slightly less mysterious how communism can be blamed on Jews -- after
>all, a large percentage of the most prominent communist leaders and ideologues
>were ethnically Jewish. But of course they were Jewish only by ethnicity,
>having explicitely renounced Jewish religion, laws, and tradition. One has to
>be viewing the world from an exclusively racial perspective to think that
>people like Karl Marx or Be1la Kun were Jewish. That is exactly what the nazis
>did, and I imagine their slogans about "judeobolshevism" still resonate with
>today's ultraright.
>
>> >Andras also asks:
>> >
>> >>As for being 'jewed' this is an English expression -- how does
>> >>it go in Hungarian?
>>
>> As far as I know, and my Hungarian should be appropriate, there is no
>> such expression in this context.
>I was quite certain there is no such expression in Hungarian, but wanted
>to check all the same. As a matter of fact, there is a pejorative expression
>"ciga1nykodik" 'act like a Gypsy' but there is no "*zsido1skodik" which to
>some extent reinforces the point that Gypsies are more stigmatized in
>Hungarian society than Jews.
>
>Andra1s Kornai
>
>
+ - Re: To gouge (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gouge does sound a good deal like gadj, but as far as I am aware, they
aren't related, even by loan of a particular colloquial meaning.

Gadje = plural form meaning non-Gypsy
Gadjo = singular male non-Gypsy
Gadji = singular female non-Gypsy

All of these are spelled in a variety of ways depending on whose
orthography you care to use. I spell with an orthography drawn from
Hungarian because the dialect I speak (Lovaritska) is heavily influenced
by Hungarian and I have family in Hungary who correspond with
orthographically Hungarianized Romani. Pronunciation of these as I've
spelled them above would be as in Hungarian for the same spelling.
The English equivalent would be something like gozhe, gozhoh, gozhee
where the" zh" is an aspirated" z" and the" ee" is a long "e" sound.

--Rebecca

Rebecca Tracy                   Ohio State University
e-mail:         Center for Slavic & East European Studies
+ - Re: CONTACT IN BUDAPEST (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I know that CompuServe does have access in Budapest, as well as AOL.  I
don't know particulars, but it is quite expensive (more than in US).

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