Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 700
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-06-16
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Szucs on the Forum (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
2 Emergency Food Aid for North Korea (was: More news item (mind)  45 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Szucs on the Forum (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
4 I NEED A HUNGARIAN CONTACT to help me sell computers in (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: "Marshall Plan" (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: More news items and musings (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
7 Language-Political Power (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: "Marshall Plan" (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Who denounced NPA? (mind)  60 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Help with Universities (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Szucs on the Forum (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Our friend from silicon.valley while decrying the fate of NPA and Odor (you
remember, the malodorous) (apparently someone - obvously a liberal communist
- dennounced him too), writes:

"Magyarorszagon eljott az utolso pillanat arra, hogy a hatalom BEKES
LEMONDATASAVAL talan aranylag civil modon lehessen a bunozoknek
szabad menekulest biztositani, s ugyanakkor a nep vaskezu uralmat
(az igazi demokracia, nep altal megvalositott rend) jogallamat a
mocsok es szenny belso- es kulso aradata elleni jogos onvedelemkent
viharos gyorsasaggal felallitani. A moszkvai kaosz beallasanak
pillanataiban egy ilyen "magyar fordulat" nem csak hogy kulonosebb
(harom napon tul gyogyulo) vilagkozvelemeny-figyelmet nem fog
kivaltani, de meg akik oda is figyelnek, azok is a legmesszebbmenokig
helyeselni fogjak."

Roughly translated:

"It is the last moment in Hungary to get the government to RESIGN
PEACEFULLY, this way we may be able to assure in a relatively civil way
free passage to  the criminals, and at the same time we can establish with
stormy speed the iron-fisted power of the people (the true democracy, order
by the people), its constitutional state assuring our justified self-defense
against the internal and external flood of filth and dirt. At the moment of
the establishment of chaos in Moscow such a Hungarian turn not only will not
cause substantial (more than three days worth of) interest in the world
opinion, but even those who care will support it all the way."

I assume our friend would also like to make sure that this "free passage"
happens in freight trains and it ends up in a place with a big gate that has
Arbeit Macht Frei inscribed on it.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Emergency Food Aid for North Korea (was: More news item (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi, Martha and Listmembers -

At 23:42 14/06/96 -0400, Martha wrote:
>Hello again!
>
>When I posted these items, one was about China, the other about Levi Strauss.
>Those two had elicited some discussion.
>
>I am puzzled by the quiet - no response - attitude about this:
>
>* The State Department has announced a formal decision to give $6.2
>  million in emergency food aid to North Korea.
>
>I am not suggesting that *we* let people starve.  It is, however, as in the
>case of Iraq, an internal decision: production of arms takes precedent
>over feeding the people.  We act as enablers.
>
>They tell parents to use *toughlove* with their wavering children.  Can you
>see a parallel?
>
>Any insights, anyone?
>
>Martha
>
I am not sure I have any great insights, but I have heard in the past
several months that North Korea was making incursions into the Demilitarized
Zone (DMZ) and talking about starting a war against the South. I haven't
heard anything about them approaching the U.S., cap in hand, and begging for
food aid for their starving people. I haven't seen anything about them
renouncing the use of force or the idea of forcefully *reuniting* all of
Korea under their hegemony. Is this another example of Clinton's attempting
to bribe them to knock off the aggression by offering them millions in
assistance? It seems to me that in effect it is rewarding them for the wrong
type of behavior - namely they get something by acting aggressively against
their neighbour (and, in effect, the U.S. as well, which still has troops in
Korea). Clinton doesn't want any more incidents messing up his re-election
campaign, but it will backfire against him (and the U.S.) in the long run, I
think.

Yours respectfully,

Johanne

Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 
+ - Re: Szucs on the Forum (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:54 PM 6/14/96 -0700, Gabor Farkas wrote:
>Our friend from silicon.valley while decrying the fate of NPA and Odor (you
>remember, the malodorous) (apparently someone - obvously a liberal communist
>- dennounced him too), writes:

>we can establish with
>stormy speed the iron-fisted power of the people (the true democracy, order
>by the people), its constitutional state assuring our justified self-defense
>against the internal and external flood of filth and dirt. At the moment of
>the establishment of chaos in Moscow such a Hungarian turn not only will not
>cause substantial (more than three days worth of) interest in the world
>opinion, but even those who care will support it all the way."
>
>I assume our friend would also like to make sure that this "free passage"
>happens in freight trains and it ends up in a place with a big gate that has
>Arbeit Macht Frei inscribed on it.

        I quickly read the original, and it sent the chill down my spine. It
is frightening, and if until now there was anyone on this list who thought
that we exaggerate the state of affairs on the Forum, I think this will
convince all that a very unsavory group of characters gathered around that
list. The tone of this piece is unmistakably of the national socialist variety.

        Eva Balogh
+ - I NEED A HUNGARIAN CONTACT to help me sell computers in (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

anyone out ther that wants to make MONEY ?
email me  I SPEAK HUNGARIAN ENGLISH FRENCH !!!

http://www.complast.com  OR  http://www.autoroute.net/~complex
E-Mail    OR    
+ - Re: "Marshall Plan" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 08:25 PM 6/14/96 -0700, Charlie Vamossy wrote:
 > Also,
>although I am not certain, I think Czechoslovakia and Romania at least
>were not occupied by the Soviet Army at that time., Still, they took
>their  "suggestions" from Moscow quite seriously if they did not want
>to be occupied.

I seem to remember that the Soviet Army withdrew from Romania in the late
50s, early 60s, much later than the Marshall Plan.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: More news items and musings (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 11:42 PM 6/14/96 -0400, Martha wrote:

>* The State Department has announced a formal decision to give $6.2
>  million in emergency food aid to North Korea.
>
>I am not suggesting that *we* let people starve.  It is, however, as in the
>case of Iraq, an internal decision: production of arms takes precedent
>over feeding the people.  We act as enablers.
>
>They tell parents to use *toughlove* with their wavering children.  Can you
>see a parallel?

I think the parallel is not complete. It is true that North Korea is a
military dictatorship. However, the present (larger than usual) lack of food
seems to have been caused by a big drought. People are eating weeds (there
was a recent article about this in The New York Times). Those people can do
very little about the system in their country.

I principle I agree with the *toughlove* method. But how to do it there?
Wait until a few million starve to death and see whether they will become
deperate enough to fight the army with their bear hands? Hard for me to answer.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Language-Political Power (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At the Goethe Institute in Bucharest a symposium caleld *Language -
Political Power* took place between June 10 and 13. It was organized by the
Friedrich Ebert Foundation, together with the Goethe Institute of Bucharest
and Suedostdeutsches Institute of Muenchen (from RRA-RADOR press).

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: "Marshall Plan" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

You wrote:
>
>At 08:25 PM 6/14/96 -0700, Charlie Vamossy wrote:
> > Also,
>>although I am not certain, I think Czechoslovakia and Romania at
least
>>were not occupied by the Soviet Army at that time., Still, they took
>>their  "suggestions" from Moscow quite seriously if they did not want
>>to be occupied.
>
>I seem to remember that the Soviet Army withdrew from Romania in the
late
>50s, early 60s, much later than the Marshall Plan.
>
>Gabor D. Farkas
>


You may be right, I am not sure.  My main point is that leaders of the
"satelite countries" took their orders from Moscow, and they did it
willingly, eager to please their masters.

Charlie Vamossy
+ - Re: Who denounced NPA? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (alias ) writes in Hungary#697:

>... is
>FORUM a hotbed of MIE1Pers? The answer seems to be yes. I don't have the
>stomach to go over a large number of issues, but it seems to me that the key
>points of the MIE1P agenda, including "Hungary is controlled by the Tel
Aviv-
>New York conspiracy", "SZDSZ is a Jewish party", etc. etc. get extensive
>exposure there.

If FORUM were such a "hotbed" of MIEP-ers or any other persuasion, people
would not have much to argue about, would they?  What do we see there
instead?  A wide range of opinions.  Yes, there are sometimes offending
views, from anti-Jewish to anti-Christian, just like here.  The quoted
statements were carefully selected from the former category.  (Actually, one
of them, about the SzDSz being a Jewish party, is from one of Eva Balogh's
posts - if memory serves - citing some opinions heard in Hungary.  But no
evidence was offered one way or the other.)

On NPA, he says in  Hungary 692:

>I have not addressed my denunciations to Mr. Neme1nyi or
>his (former) employers, but I can easily see why people would do so. NPA is
a
>virulent antisemite.

And in Hungary 697:

>...It is quite
>conceivable, indeed probable, that the combined effects of my digging out
the
>stuff from the FORUM archives (note that these were statements the existence
>of which was flatly denied by NFerenc and other NPA-supporters) and Ga1bor's
>translation led indirectly to his denunciation -- finally someone had the
>ammunition to do something about it.

So it wasn't the medium (employer's facilities), but the message.  Thanks for
sharing.

As far as my "flat denial", he is wrong, and he knows it.  I said I had not
seen the article Eva Balogh referred to (some nonsense about Jews drinking
Christian blood) during the time (about a year and a half) that I read FORUM.
 Then, lo and behold, Eva dredges up something from TWO years ago, written by
NPA, dealing with a trial in the last century.  Apparently the charges -
ritual killing (sans blood drinking) of a girl by Jews - were dropped.

>I didn't say I was insulted or offended, I said I was upset. The matter of
my
>Jewish identity is rather complex, and suffice it to say that whether I'm
>Jewish is not for the good doctor to decide. For you, fellas, I'm actually
>delighted to be >>a "jew"<<.
>
>Andra1s Kornai

Relax, Andras.  I was just curious why being called a Jew bothered you.  I
don't know if Dr. Pellionisz meant it as an insult or not.  Why not just take
it as a compliment and be done with it.  The race or religion of a person
need not define his other qualities -- unless he wants it to.

Ferenc
+ - Re: Help with Universities (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html
http://www.bme.hu/
http://www.banki.hu/
http://www.szif.hu/
http://www.uni-miskolc.hu:8080/%7ewww/index.html or
http://www.uni-miskolc.hu ?
--
Marton Adam
mailto:

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