Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 145
Copyright (C) HIX
1994-11-25
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Information Wanted (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: HOSPITALS IN HUNGARY (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Illegal Immigration (mind)  106 sor     (cikkei)
4 Social Insurance (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Illegal Immigration (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Illegal Immigration (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Medical care in Hungary (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
8 Import/export (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
9 Happy Thanksgiving to all of you! (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
10 Happy Thanksgiving (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
11 Exchange of Books (from USA or England or) (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Information Wanted (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Ed Naratil ) wrote:
: Sorry for posting in two groups, but evidently soc.culture.hungary
: does not exist.


Try soc.culture.magyar.

Calin.
+ - Re: HOSPITALS IN HUNGARY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>
> After reading this list for a while now I start to wonder whether Joe and
> others have ever had positive things to say about anything, including
> Hungary.  Why do we always have to trash this country and why don't we
> sometimes look at its positive things for a change?
>
>
> Zoli )

I agree with the sentiments about hospitals (being on average ok)
 adding, that malpractice
stories are plenty here in England. I have to suppose that the best
system for health must be in the US as Joe and Eva Balogh must take
them base for comperison. For every US citizen there is a promt,
well functioning service free of financial worry:/.

+ - Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

--Now, guys, if I had written any of this, some kind, tactful soul
would sweetly remind me that this had very little to do with Hungary.
But since the conversation started between two Hungarians...

--Let's see, is this Paul's statement?
>
>No society can justify slave wages based on some cost effectiveness
>calculation.

--Well, minimum wages are not supposed to be slave wages.  The original
idea was to prevent employers from paying indecently low wages.  It's
true that the minimum wage has not kept up with the general inflation and
growth in the economy.  It is also true that many employers have had to
pay above the minimum wage in order to get good help.  There is some
fairly decent evidence that high minimum wages do create some
unemployment at the entry level for young, inexperienced workers.  Cost
effectiveness is a factor, certainly.  My point is that this is not
as simple and straightforward an issue as it appears.

--And I think that this is Paul's too, but it is confusing to follow
who said what, so I'm sorry if I attributed this to the wrong person.

>Any AMerican has a right drawn from citizenship to be able to provide for
> himself
>at least the most basic necessities, such as a place to live, even if it is
>only
>a 2 room apartment, and basic food and clothing.

--This the the statement that caused me to break my silence.  There is
no such right.  Nothing in the Constitution guarantees this.  This is
simply liberal rhetoric.  Rights are embodied in law, not simply affirmed
through ideology.

  It is immoral and inhumain to
>have American citizens competing with illegal for jobs on the basis of who is
>willing to live at a lower standard of living.

--That is your opinion but it is not the law.

  Anyone arguing that a minimum
>wage of $5-$7 per hour is too much is expecting to hire the modern equivalent
>of tennent farmers - people who work for just enough to keep from starving.

--I have lived among tenant farmers for a third of my life.  They
did not work for starvation wages.  You couldn't get good tenants
that way.  In some poor parts of the country, it is true that tenants
did not do well--but the owner didn't do much better.  Even the word
"sharecropper" has been overworked by city people who do not know that
not all sharecropper arrangements were bad.  I have known many sharecroppers
who did very well and who preferred to farm on that basis.  The abuses were
mostly in the American South where many farms were small and poor and
former slaves and their descendents were clearly victimized by land
owners.

>The
 US cannot support the world's poor.  The solution is not to bankrupt us,
>but
>rather to help people in their own countries.
>
>>immigrants, who *are* cost effective.  To those who argue against this on
>>grounds of general humanity, remember that when the "system" works, people
>>move out of low-paying, unpleasant jobs when they acquire skills, experience,
>
--Traditionally, immigrants have taken entry level jobs and the clever and
skillful have moved out.

>What skills do you get at McDonald's which would allow you to move up?  Only
>one low-level worker can be promoted to supervisor at a time.  What do the
>rest do?

--I have argued this question with a lot of teen-agers.  There are three
things one gets from taking such jobs.  1) one earns some money, 2)
one learns what it means to work and has the opportunity to learn
good work habits, 3) one has some experience to refer to when seeking
a better job.

  For them to expect $5-$7 per hour is not outragious - that is only
>a max of $280 per week before taxes!!!  Does anyone think this is a high
>wage?

--Not today.  But it's a start.  And the answer here is to attack the
problem of the working poor through the tax system.  This worker
wouldn't pay much in taxes and could claim Earned Income Tax Credit and
maybe qualify for Food Stamps.

  Do you know where ilegal workers live while in the US?  In broken down
>shacks owned by the employer (at least in the case of illegal farm workers).

--This used to be true.  But I don't think that most illegals are farm
workers.  Most lose themselves in the cities, not on farms.

>Is that civilized?  Should Americans live like that to be cost effective
>employees?
>
--I was taught that no one owed me a job and that any job that didn't
require me to kill people who didn't need killing was worth taking.
I was also brought up to believe that I was worth what I could convince
an employer to pay me.  My father was a working class Tory who didn't
believe that the world owed anybody anything.  We didn't have much,
but we earned what we had and clawed, scrimped, and saved for every
bit of it.  What's wrong with that?

Charles
(A non-Hungarian.  Go ahead.  Flame away.  But don't tell me about
rights that don't exist or how uncivilized I am.  It would be a
waste of electronics.)
+ - Social Insurance (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Greetings !!!

I would be grateful for some assistance regarding the financing of
the pension and health care funds in Hungary.  It is my
understanding that at present employers pay 44% and employees
10% of gross wages to the fund which is split 60% for pensions
(old age pensions) and 40% for Health Insurance.

 Is this still the case or has it changed recently?

Also, if anyone knows the current rates of various social benefits
(pensions, family allowances, GYED, GYES etc.) then I would be
grateful.

Thanking you in anticipation.

             ====================================
           Dr Tony MALTBY
        Dept. of Social Policy & Social Work
        University of Birmingham
        Edgbaston
        BIRMINGHAM
        B15 2TT  UK
     Tel: (44) (0)121 414 5730   Fax: (44) (0)121 414 5726
          ========================================
+ - Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>
> >Any AMerican has a right drawn from citizenship to be able to provide for
> > himself
> >at least the most basic necessities, such as a place to live, even if it is
> >only
> >a 2 room apartment, and basic food and clothing.
>
> --This the the statement that caused me to break my silence.  There is
> no such right.  Nothing in the Constitution guarantees this.  This is
> simply liberal rhetoric.  Rights are embodied in law, not simply affirmed
> through ideology.
>

There are such things as human rights - remember, American presidents'
favourite phrase - I think this absurd idea was referred to in this case.
Your father - with respect - only adhered to the "I'm alright Jack"
attitude, which unfortunately you have inherited.

+ - Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Thu, 24 Nov 1994 16:26:04 +0000 Eva Durant said:
>>
>
>There are such things as human rights - remember, American presidents'
>favourite phrase - I think this absurd idea was referred to in this case.

Dear "Red" Eva (perhaps in more than one sense!)

--Human rights are matters of law in this country.  All presidents
talk a lot, but their words are not law.  I repeat, nothing in
American law gives anyone the right to a living, only the opportunity.

>Your father - with respect - only adhered to the "I'm alright Jack"
>attitude, which unfortunately you have inherited.

--No offense taken by me.  But it isn't quite the same as "I'm all
right, Jack."  It's a matter of accepting personal responsibility
for one's fate.  This does not discount structural problems, but
it does say that whatever the cause, the most likely place to find
a helping hand is at the end of one's own arm.  America was seen
by us immigrants as the land of oppotunity, not the land of success
guaranteed by a benevolent and well-meaning government.

--I note with interest that Tony Blair seems to have become a moderate
Republican and that the Labour party is slowly beginning to figure things
out.  I have told my rowdy friends in Nottingham and Newcastle that I
am almost persuaded that I would vote Labour next time, since they
seem to have given up on that silly socialist nonsense that Michael
Foot and his ilk used to preach.  I note that Blair's speeches are
now being written by Miliband's sons.  See, there is a God.

--This sounds harsh in print, but I'm smiling.  I just hate to use
those damned smileys.

Charles
+ - Re: Medical care in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 wrote:

: And as I said, the average life expectancy is very low and has been getting
: lower year after year. Don't tell me that the standard of medical care has
: nothing to do with this trend.

what is the average life expectancy in hungary and how does it compare to
other european countries?

d.a.
+ - Import/export (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi, I have an idea about importing & exporting items. I would like to
contact "regular people" just looking to supplement their income. My idea
entails secondhand items that I would obtain here in the States & trade &
sell to small businessman and/or expatriates in Hungary/eastern europe.  Any
ideas on how to reach interested parties??  I own a small second-hand and
antique store.  I frequent fleamarkets and auctions, etc.  I think this
could be a viable enterprise, but I am not sure where to start.
Any help would be appreciated
                Joseph  
+ - Happy Thanksgiving to all of you! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>From Joe Pannon
+ - Happy Thanksgiving (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe,

   Thanks for your good wishes for Thanksgiving. Happy Thanks-
giving to you, and everybody on the list.

                                            Amos
+ - Exchange of Books (from USA or England or) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello!

My name is Peter Feher, I am a junior research fellow at Janus
Pannonius University, Pecs, Hungary. My major interests are following:
Einstein, history of science, computers.

I am looking for someone, who are able to help me to access books,
which are published in English language. I could send Hungarian books
for Your help.

Please feel free to write to me, if You could help me!
Thanks in advance!

Feher Peter

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