At 07:43 AM 4/17/97 +1000, Denes wrote:
" At the same time Romanian teachers colleges were set up, which
unfortunately became foci of nationalistic separatist propaganda."

This sounds very familiar. It is the exact phrase used by those Romanians
who oppose the separation of the Bolyai University in Kolozsvar/Cluj form
the Babes-Bolyai University, into which it was forced by Ceausescu. Tempora
mutantur...

Gabor D. Farkas

At 08:46 PM 4/16/97 GMT, you wrote:
>>I've always found it curious that North Americans are reluctant to learn
>a
>>second language.  In Hungary, and Europe generally, people don't have
>the
>>same hang-ups about learning other languages.
>>
>>Joe Szalai

I think that it as matter of attitude AND ear. In Europe you travel
400 miles and your have crossed 4 countries that speak 7 languages.

In America you travel 400 miles to go to the drug store.

We (in Transylvania) were drilled with languages in school
(Russian, Latin, Greek, French, English) and spoke at least three
languages just to get along (Hungarian, Romanian, German).

Once one reaches puberty, learning a new language becomes
more difficult and almost impossible to learn to speak without an
accent. Psycholinguists have some theories about this.

So, if languages were not emphasized in school and you did not
have a need to acquire skills in several languages as a child,
then you (an American) may not even think about it until you are
an adult. By then it's too late. So how does one cover up a perceived
inferiority? By denying its importance (yo, Stoner, here is another
possible cognitive dissonance getting 'resolved'). Or by becoming
an 'ugly American.' ("what's that in REAL money?", is one of my
favorites).

My theory. Not a pet, just off the cuff. Have at it.

Bandi

aheringer wrote:
>
> In article >, 
> says...

> >Agnes, what were you answering to?
> >Miklos
>
> This one:
>
> From: Steven Weiss >
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hungary
> Subject: Khazars, Mongols, James joyce
> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:12:14 -0600
> Message-ID: >
> Reply-To: 
>
> This morning on NPR there was a story on a documentary, aired in Israel,
> on the Khazars.  Like those searching for Atlantis, many persons are
> obsessed with discovering more about these lost people.  I would like to
> know how people in Hungary view Khazar history.  Needless to say
> Neo-Nazis use Khazar history as racist propaganda.  What is the GENERAL
> view in Hungary of the few things we know of the Khazars.  Arthur
> Koestler was convinced he was of Khazar descent, but what do most
> Hungarian Jews think of their possible origins in the Ukraine?
>
> My father has worked in Mongolia for the last 20 years as a linguist and
> medical anthropologist.  A Jewish man, he is convinced he is of
> Mongolian ancestry and thus was drawn to Mongolian Studies.  He has just
> published a book (in China) on the parallels between pre-Mongol culture
> and that of the Celts.
> He will be presenting his findings at the 35th International Congress of
> Asian and North African Studies taking place in Budapest this July.
>
> I too will be attending the conference in Budapest.  I'll be discussing
> the far out notion that James Joyce knew of the Khazars and added
> another layer of Oriental nomadism onto Leopold Bloom.  This is just
> speculation but Joyce could not have but been intrigued by a warrior
> people that disappeared soon after converting to Judaism
>
> I'd like to hear from Joyce fans in Hungary especialy szombathely.
> Anyone with any comments and answers to the above queries is welcome to
> mai me:  

Thanks, Agnes. How interesting. I did4t see it before.
Miklos

On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Andrew J. Rozsa wrote:

> At 08:46 PM 4/16/97 GMT, you wrote:
> >>I've always found it curious that North Americans are reluctant to learn
> >a
> >>second language.  In Hungary, and Europe generally, people don't have
> >the
> >>same hang-ups about learning other languages.
> >>
> >>Joe Szalai
>
> I think that it as matter of attitude AND ear. In Europe you travel
> 400 miles and your have crossed 4 countries that speak 7 languages.
>
> In America you travel 400 miles to go to the drug store.

sorry to disagree slightly, but ask a Yankee if they can understand anyone
from the deep south. Heck, I can't even understand fellow Kentuckians from
Eastern Kentucky half the time. :-)

What you said is very correct though, the scale of space is important
here, as much as what is in that space linguistically.

>
> Once one reaches puberty, learning a new language becomes
> more difficult and almost impossible to learn to speak without an
> accent. Psycholinguists have some theories about this.

I want to challenge this one. I didn't take a single language till I was a
sophomore in university (the high school only offered spanish and
french-languages that I was not interested in, I wanted science classes).
I started Russian, did so-so, and then have started up on Hungarian and
Romanian. I really believe that if you force the brain to go after
multiple languages regardless of the family (indo-european, romance, etc),
it becomes easier at any age. Believe me, I am not god's gift to language
studies. :-)

> So, if languages were not emphasized in school and you did not
> have a need to acquire skills in several languages as a child,
> then you (an American) may not even think about it until you are
> an adult. By then it's too late. So how does one cover up a perceived
> inferiority? By denying its importance (yo, Stoner, here is another
> possible cognitive dissonance getting 'resolved'). Or by becoming
> an 'ugly American.' ("what's that in REAL money?", is one of my
> favorites).
>
> My theory. Not a pet, just off the cuff. Have at it.
>
> Bandi
>
Darren Purcell

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
   urgent

Background:
   The Vice President of  J.P. Morgan assured Bela Liptak last year
that J.P. Morgan did not give any loans for the completion of
Gabcikovo project.
   Today it is obvious that Slovakia received a loan for end building
of Gabcikovo by a group of banks headed by J.P. Morgan.

What to do:
    Please send a letter to the Vice President of J.P Morgan and
protest. Feel free to use the attached form letter. Since we do not
know the internet access please send faxes.

Fax 212-648-5210

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<date>

Margaret W. Southerland
Vice President
J.P. Morgan
60 Wall Street
New York, N.Y. 10260-0060

RE: Loan to Slovakia

Dear Mrs. Southerland,

According to your letter of  July 1996, (addressed to prof. Bela
Liptak), J.P. Morgan received assurances from the Water Development
Enterprise of Slovakia that none of the loans you managed for this
company will be spent on the Gabcikovo dam.

On the 26th of November, 1996, Miroslav B. Liska, an employee of the
Water Development Enterprise of Slovakia, indicated that the company
has received a loan to finance the "end building" of Gabcikovo by a
group of banks headed by J.P. Morgan.

On March 25, 1997 at the International Court of Justice in The Hague,
Slovakia's representatives once again repeated this claim.

Dear Mrs. Southerland, we would like to learn, if J.P. Morgan is
managing a loan which finances the completion of the Gabcikovo
project? If you are, your bank is supporting an environmentally
disastrous and illegal project and is acting contrary to your written
statement of July 1996. Please clear this up.

Sincerely,

<name, title, address>

At 06:59 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:48 AM 4/16/97 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>
>>I've always found it curious that North Americans are reluctant to learn a
>>second language.  In Hungary, and Europe generally, people don't have the
>>same hang-ups about learning other languages.
>
>        I don't find it curious at all. It is the question of geography and
>the widespread nature of the English language. One learns a language for
>practical reasons: to be able to use it somewhere. That is rather hard for a
>person from North America. Moreover, even if it weren't the knowledge of
>English is widespread. There is always someone who speaks much better
>English than you do German, for example. For people whose mother tongue has
>very limited use outside the country (or none, actually) learning another
>language is of utmost importance. That is the case with Hungarians, Danes,
>Swedes, Finns, Dutch, and many, many more smaller people of Europe. ESB
>
>Eva:I am sure you did not mean smaler people in height.On the other hand if
by any chance you learn another language beside english,you also learn a
different culture.
I remeber when I was young,many many moons ago,we learned in school,latin,or
greek,and german,and privatly maybe french,or english.
It just expands your horison,and helps to understand others better.
Eva:there is also a bigotry in the North American people,who feels they do
not have to learn other language,since evrybody else should speek theres.
Andy.
>
Andy Kozma

Toronto.

At 08:53 PM 4/16/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Thank you Barna.  This is very interesting indeed.  Your post reminded me
>of something.
>
>During 56, a structure in Montreal was established - I believe by the name
>of  Macdonald College, situated on Bai D'urfee(sp) (nothing to do with the
>golden gates).  I have heard several people insinuate, that it's founder(s)
>were key advocators of "countless" Hungarian Medical Student refugees.  It
>was also insinuated, that it's main function was to establish housing for
>the many medical student refugees landing in Montreal, specifically from
>Hungary.  Does anyone have any factual information on this?  Would dearly
>love to hear them.
>
>Regards,
>Aniko
>
>Aniko:I don't know anything about that college.I emighrated to Montreal,but
never heard about it.
On the other hand I know that the Drs.Rekai Pal,and Janos were very instrumenta
l
helping hungarians finding jobs,and helping hungarian doctors and medical
student.
They where the one who developed Central Hospital in Toronto,as the only
institution,where patient can talk to there Doctors,and nurses in there own
language.
By the way both doctors where our family phisician in Hungary,till the Nazi
occupation,
Also unfortunatly they both passe away,but there memory will stay.
Andy.
Andy Kozma

Toronto.

 on Apr 15 07:17:16 EDT 1997 in HUNGARY #970:

>I don't agree with the limitations on Hungarian in Romania.  However, when
>we were in charge, didn't we have a "magyarization" policy?  Why are we so
>shocked now?
>
>Joe Szalai

Because this is 1997, not 1897.

Ferenc