Stephen Kymlicka > wrote:

>This past summer a huge debate raged over the question of the group's
>name and the scope which it should cover.
>
>In *solidarity* with all eastern europeans who feel alienated by the
>american/uk dominance of the genealogy groups, and to *avoid*
>nationalism discussions, the group was opened up to all eastern
>european groups (ethnic, linguistic, racial, religious ...).
>
>After having said that, the drive for the group's creation is largely
>by slavics who feel *very* strongly about their "slavicness".  As such,
>a straw poll conducted over the summer resulted in the name s.g.slavic.
>
>As such, obviously soviet domination has nothing to do with genealogy.
>I was trying to use a geographic short form - not make a political
>statement.  I appologize to any and all that took offence.
>
>I'm happy to see a discussion and hope that you will all come and
>support the creation of the new group. :-)
>
>Stephen
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Stephen Kymlicka /
>2333 Robinson St., Regina, SK, S4T 2R3 /
 /
>"We give to necessity, the praise of virtue".  Quintillian
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Dear Stephen:  believe me, I quite understand the predicament you and the 
newsgroup is in.  Although I am a Hungarian, I do not take offense at 
naming the group slavic.  Should I, in the future, need geneological 
information, the group would certainly be on my list of sources to 
contact, since I now know it exists.

The problem comes, if at all, with future hordes of Internet neophyte 
genelogists, of Hungarian, Romanian, German, Austrian, Estonian, etc. 
backgrounds, looking to find information on their ancestors.  I very much 
doubt that it will occour to them to contact this group.

Imagine, for example, how a young German, whose ancestors left 
Germany centuries ago to settle in Hungary, only to have his/her parents 
leave Ceucescu's Romania to return to Germany.  German, Hungarian, 
Romanian geneology groups would come to mind before Slavic.  The S.G.S 
group is the looser, I believe, and so is the budding geneologist.

Take care and good luck with the group.



Charlie Vamossy

Did you check out who controlled the "negotiations" about Slovenian 
Carinthia at the time of the signing of the Austrian State Treaty in 
1955?

And how did the border with Italy go and why?
Actually if you have access to any Slovenian records about this (Kardelj, 
Bebler, etc) there may be interesting data there.

In >  () writes:

>In article >, Dan Pop > wrote:
>>
>>When the _whole_ population of a village (from a 3 week baby to the
>>eldest) is killed for the _only_ "guilt" of being Romanians, it makes
>>sense to believe that the killers would have massacred _all_ the
>>Romanians in existence if they _could_.
>
>Is there any proof of this?  Frankly, to me this sounds like an urban
>legend.  This is not to say that I don't think Hungarians can commit
>no attrocities.  They can.  Especially during or in the aftermath of wars
>when general moral standards are usually not what they are in peace
>time.  This would not be unique to Hungarians.  But the kind you are
>alluding to would be pretty unique to them.  I think such attrocities
>are more likely invented than committed.  But I am willing to listen to
>some convincing proofs, even circumstantial ones.

I know the story from one of the few survivors.  No, friendly Hungarians
didn't spare anyone, but some severely wounded persons were considered
dead.  He was a kid at the time and he was the only survivor from his
family.

>What would I consider circumstantial in such a situation?  Well, the
>Soviet direct adminsitration of North Transylvania after the complaints
>of Hungarians would be an indirect, circumstantial evidence.
>A good evidence would be a bunch of graves dating from the same day the
>alleged attrocities happened.  I would not consider a good evidence what
>somebody just said about it, unless she/he can prove that he/she knew
>several people murdered on the occasion and their graves can indeed be
>confirmed with the dates. 

Of course, I don't expect you to take the above as a proof.  But you
can have as many proof as you like if you go to the villages Ip and
Traznea.  There is even a monument, raised in the memory of the victims.

>Here is what I think could have happened in 1940, after the return of
>Northern Transylvania to Hungary.

Feel free to think whatever you like.  Without proofs, keep your thoughts
for yourself.  I could also think that Hungary is preparing to attack
Romania and get Transylvania back and that every single Transylvanian
Hungarian dreams of an ethnically cleansed Transylvania.  So what?

>Many Hungarians, who suffered some kind of injustice from Romanians
>during the prior 20 years, saw it as an opportunity to settle their
>scores.  Because as you indicated earlier, previous wrongs done could
>not be ignored when judging a new wrong.  And the wrongs did not start
>in 1940.  They started in 1918.  (Just to stay within the span of one
>generation.)

And the 3 week old baby (and the older kids) must have committed a lot
of evil things towards the friendly Hungarians who killed them.  Or,
maybe they killed him/her for humanitarian reasons: an orphan is sooo
unhappy :-(

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

I am seeking information about the name Gyurizca, also spelled Dyuricza, Dyurit
za or Duritza.
It is my understanding that the first part of the name, Gyur, is Hungarian in o
rigin while
the second half is German.

Any insight into this name would be greatly appreciated.

I am also interested in information about the name Gatsey.

Many Thanks,
Dave Duricy