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Interesting find on the "net".... from an Andrew yet ...

Enjoy group ... worthy of the read.

Best, Aniko

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From:  (Andrew8037)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hungary
Subject: Re: "Whining" vs. Hungarian Historical Reality
Date: 1 Jul 1997 16:13:00 GMT
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The messages recently posted concerning all remarks re: "Whining
Hungarians," "Unsmiling Hungarians," "living standards," etc. all provide
excellent illustrations as to why the cause of Hungarian freedom has so
little purchase within the Western media and why the political situation
of free Hungary this century has been so obscure and politically
ineffective.

The issue never has been, and currently is not, one of "capitalism" vs.
"communism" or "socialism."  Rather, especially this century, it has been
one of indigenous Magyar political movements attempting to surmount the
policy goals and repressive strategies successfully imposed on the nation
by foreign powers.

Please recall that, beginning with Ferdinand, the first Hapsuburg Archduke
crowned King of Hungary after the battle of Mohacs in 1526, the Hapsburg
dynasty ran the Kingdom of Hungary as a severely repressive police state,
encouraging
dissention when it served their purpose, i.e. sponsoring Pan-Slavism in
the 19th century or supressing it ruthlessly, i.e. anything remotely
connected to the Kossuth-'49er party, especially in North America.
Temporarily setting aside the issues of the post-Trianon-World War II era,
please also recall that the Hungarian Communist Party/Rakosi and their
sucessors were installed by means of a Soviet coup and maintained by the
Red Army and KGB, based upon the strategies the Bolsheviks had already
successfully implemented during the Red Terror of 1918-1919.

The currently dismal state of general Magyar affairs does not represent,
as it is intimated by the Western media, the residue of actions conducted
for 44 years ('45-'89) by a popular government and, by extension, the
representative will and desires of the Hungarian people.  This
interpretation only serves to obscure the fact that the Allies constantly
ignored Hungary's attempts to join the West before and during WW II and of
the nation's abandonment by them during the 1956 szabadsagharc.

I would urge that Magyar issues be debated for what they really are, that
is enormous problems caused by, essentially centuries of malevolent
foreign occupation, unchecked interference and the malfeasance of those
Hungarians who owe their station to abetting tyranny.  Arguments
concerning abstract political theory have never truly been a phenomenon in
Magyar politics.  After all, Petofi, Ady, Vorosmarty et al say more about
the problems and solutions of Magyarorszag in one stanza than Marx could
about any nation in all four volumes of DAS KAPITAL.

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At 06:50 PM 7/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 06:30 PM 7/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>"subscribe all" wrote:
>>
>>>I sincerley wish,good luck to Bela Liptak,who apparently does not have
>>>anything else to do,just pester the List with his constant demands for
>>action.
>>>Personaly once I see his name on my mail,I just automaticly delete them.
>>
>>And there may be others on this list who automatically delete anything such
>>as the above half-literate tirade.
>>
>>Ferenc
>>
>>Please you total literate just do so.You seems to be on cloud nine ferenc.
>Just stay there with your smirk,and smut.
>Andy Kozma

>Toronto.
>
>

Dear Andy,

Naturally, it is your right to distance yourself from any political or
lobbying activity.  I don't think that anyone on the list, including Bela
Liptak, is forcing you to do anything.

For you information, I have known Bela Liptak for the last 40 years.  I can
tell you that  Bela's Hungarian Lobby activities is only a part time effort
on his part.  Besides being an author on civil engineering topics, he is a
consulting engineer and a lecturer at Yale University, with a schedule that
would dizzy the ordinary mortal.

I, for one, welcome his seemingly unbounded energy, and on occcasion join
his call for action where I feel it is important and agrees with my ideas
and approach.  Others on this list seem to do the same.  It is, however,
purely voluntary.

It seems to me, Andy, that perhaps you too could  spend some of your time
developing specific action steps to better the lot of Hungarians and their
place in the world.  If you do, I am sure your ideas and action steps  would
be as welcome as Bela Liptak.  Until then, I am more liable to use the PgDn
key as a reflexive response to your name than his.

best regards from New York


Charlie Vamossy

On Sun, 6 July 1997, Amos J. Danube wrote:

<snip>
> Cute, but not very realistic, as usual, Joe.  Since when do things
> happen in a vacuum? The concept seems to be very difficult for
> you.   I am wondering what has made you so bitter that there is nothing
> positive in your postings. It couldn't be your Marxist approach to
> things, not even Marxists are so bitter.
> Amos

The reason I'm so bitter, Amos, is because you're neglecting me.  You
know, if you wanted to, you could cheer me up.  Pretend to spank me -- I'm
a pseudo-masochist!

Joe Szalai